Hello and welcome to the Dave Arnold, your host of crooked news coming to you live actually, I'm not in the studio today I have the COVID again. So I'm at home. We got Joe Hayes and rockin the panels. They're in newsstands studios in Rockefeller Center. How you doing, Joe? I'm doing great, man. Good to hear from you. I'm sorry. You're feeling so poorly? Yeah, you know, whatever you got to do. We got to do gotta gotta quarantine to do all the right stuff. And you got John there in the studio with you? Yep, I'm

here. holding down the fort. Nice.

And then we went we have. We have over in Vancouver Island. We got Quinn. How're you doing Quinn?

Hey, I'm doing good.

Yeah, yeah. And then in LA we have Jackie molecules and the Stasi. Lopez. How you doing? Great. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So any you guys have any any interesting stories from the week? My only story is, I got the COVID. So I didn't get to go to Harvard and do all the fun Harvard stuff there. But you guys got anything?

Yeah, we started took me to this Milan event where they were debuting plant based cheese called climax foods. And we both kind of walked in like, Oh, this isn't gonna taste very good. But it was surprisingly good. We were both very surprised. Yeah, yeah. What about that? And

what about relaxing? Yeah. No,

we were like, we were ready to hate it, you know? Yeah. So it took a lot for us to be like, Oh, wow, we were wrong. That was pretty good.

Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. So let's just say that it's delicious products. I trust you both on saying it's a delicious product, right? Yeah. Is it cheese though? Um,

I want you to try it. Because I feel like if it was a blind taste, you would not know truly, I brought you up in the conversation with a woman and I was like, I feel like my partner would like to truly.

I have, I haven't opened closed mind. You know what I'm saying? Right? I'm gonna be I'm gonna be a jerk about it. But I'm open but because I'll say this. Like back in the day when people used to pretend that like, frozen yogurt was a health thing. You remember that? Yeah, yeah. No. Yeah. Anyway, so it used to be a thing frozen yogurt health thing. So my wife was always like, she would buy these like, like yogurts, right? And then try to serve them to me like they were ice cream. And I'm like, this tastes good. This is not ice cream. This is frozen yogurt, which is its own thing. That's my only point like, is it its own product, or do you say actually tastes like cheese?

I understand what you're saying. I think that you know, if you put if I serve it to you on a cracker, and you and I was like, here's some cheese. I want to know like in you had no idea. I feel like you wouldn't yet feel like you would think it was cheese and not like new product. Yeah, I

think I agree with that. When the when the sample size is that small. I'm like, if I'm just at a party, a cocktail party having a little bite of cheese on a cracker, I would not think twice. If I was sitting there and having a lot of it made maybe then other notes might come up, if that makes sense.

Yeah, okay. And bait mainly spread it or like all different textures.

No, no, there was a share of a blue Fetta was the other one. The idea

of calling it Chev. It's just like, I gotta say, I want to chase that the idea of calling it shares bothers me a little bit just because that's like a thing. John, aren't you feeling me here?

Yeah, it's not shuffle like I got

whatever. I want to taste it though. I want to taste it. I want to taste it. I definitely one tasted. And then if we if we like it, we're going to have her on right. The producer. Yes.

I asked her she never got back to me. It's maybe she

never No, never. No, I'm terrible judgment. So speaking of coming on next week, next week, we have the food Grieux Tanya Hopkins on so I'm excited for that. And if you're listening live, you're going to want to call in to ask a question of today's special guests and John how do they call him? What's the number and how do they join Patreon

they call in using 917-410-1507 and they can sign up on our Patreon at patreon.com/cooking issues and it gives you a bunch of benefits like prioritize questions for awesome guests like today access to discord and a whole bunch of other neat little things and there's a bunch of affordable membership level so everyone should join.

Yeah, and and I think you know, we we got good stuff. We got good stuff on our Patreon but today, you're gonna wish that you had the ability to call in and ask a question live because today's special guest is one of the my idols, you know, as as a young cook as someone who you know, I used to watch his television show, and I can't. When I started working for the French Culinary Institute in 2004. I could not believe that I was going to get to work with him in the real life. We have today on the show Oh, Chef jackpot. Hi, how are you doing chef? How's everything good?

Okay, how are you? Doing well doing well.

So, I guess I wanted to start just by asking you maybe to say a little bit about chef amongst Diack, who was a great man, a mentor to many of us at the French Culinary Institute. Your friend you worked with him for for many years, and he died last week. Do you want to talk about him a little bit.

He was certainly a great friend. Great Chef him in, you know, Chef Adler see a chef in the best restaurant in the country. And he work at I work with him at the French Culinary Institute for over 10 years. And he was a very gentle person, very giving and fun. And all that. And he's going to resist, I mean, certainly. You know, in the kitchen, you do create some very tight bond some diamond. stay with you forever. So yes, I will. I will miss him and nieces talents. And are these fun that this is good humor and so forth. So yes, he was.

He was a funny guy. He had a very dry sense of humor. And he could throw you these looks, you know? I mean, I'm sure he never threw a look at you, like he would throw at me or the other people are working, but I don't know. Yeah, and you know, for those who don't, you know, know who he is because he never became like a household name like you did chef. But he was mentor to 1000s of students at the French Culinary Institute, like 1000s.

No question. And prior to that, you know, in the restaurant that they work, whether you work at the 21 for many years, it goes a lot of ethos, a lot of Chef out to cook the right way. So three star, three star four star in the archetype, you know, so that's the maximum.

Yeah, didn't he? Where did you get that four star that was at the scene?

Not to the CFO thing.

And then he recruited you to be the dean at the French Culinary Institute. How did that work?

No, no, I was here before him. And I was recruited directly. By DuraTech. Ken was the owner of the place well, not really after Europe. And after that, Alana worked at the 21 for a number of years. And at that point, he wanted to kind of retire a little bit or do less and he can decide to come with us at the prices area city. And it was really we are always out there covering with

Soldner, another giant oh my god, I love Andre Soldner. And shocked to read. I mean, when you guys were all together, the four of you at the French Culinary Institute, it was kind of like an unbelievable team of people. I was kind of an unbelievable place. In my opinion. I was very proud to work there.

Yeah, it was, I mean, I enjoyed my value there, it was really special, that the restaurant itself and the quality of the food, the price are very low. So it was a great place to cook and a great place to go and have dinner.

So I want to talk to you, we'll talk about the chef Papan foundation. Also, you know, because you're Apparently you're doing I did a video for you, based on my favorite one of your books. And I think I've told you this before, but the to volume, the art of cooking is one of my most cherished cookbook, possessions, again, the whole world, everyone should go buy a copy of this book. And you would always say that it was not successful because it was too much. It was too much money for people to buy and Americans didn't understand skinning baby lambs. But you want to talk about this series of books.

Yes, I mean, the I think is probably the best book that I've done too. I mean, to a certain extent depending on the on the way you look at it, but it certainly was the least successful book that I've heard. It had to do with I wanted to show I show it let's take the IQ level. Prior to that. The technique and the basic technique of cooking and detachment of the food and so forth. And but often I never finished it with with recipe. It was I wanted to do the same thing, but finish it with a recipe to exemplified what I was talking about. And it was also in color. So we did 34,000 picture, in about five years period, it took me and we kept 3000, the cure 1500 for each of the volume we had to volume. And you know, I went fishing in Northern Ireland to get to get a scale because you cannot get a hold of skates, you can only buy the wings. So I wanted to show you how to take the wing out, I went fishing in my opponent here to get frog to show you where to take the skin out of the frog and do it. And people often they they get filled up with that, when in fact, you don't really have to take the skin out of the frog, you can start at picture eight or nine or whatever, when it's all done. And go on with the recipe, you know, an ID the whole leg of veal, for example, about 40 Pong, where I explained people you know, tough brown butter Brown, I wrong duck knock all subfield all in all pieces of the whole different muscle and did a recipe for each of those novel. Again. In that case, here, you can buy a piece of meat and one of those recipe you don't have to follow the whole thing. But that the way it was and you know, I'm very happy with that book too. And I still have a couple of copy, I guess. But it's very different than the book that I did like fast food that way or the shortcut cougar or things like this. But it's it's good to investigate cooking in, in different ways. Yeah.

And you know, whenever I see a copy, I usually buy it and and give it to somebody because I love it. But I want to talk about, I want to talk about your new book that just came out, which I wasn't expecting to love this book as much as I do. But the art of the chicken. I think I love this book. Because I mean, what, what what I love about it is it's kind of it's traced a similar story to your memoir that came out what maybe 12 years ago, 10 years ago. Yeah, it's one of jeez, I'm getting old too. So like, so, but this book, it traces you through your life, through the lens of chickens, and it gives many, many recipes, but the way a cook would give a recipe to somebody not the way that you would write in a cookbook, you know,

right, it's a very narrative I settle extensively the first book that I bring together my cooking and my tanning and their writing. Because this is not as you said, written in in a conventional manner with recipe and so forth. It's just narrative style telling you you know, my wife used to do this that too or when I was a diplomat and in Paris we used to do that and you know, this is the way you explain to a friend certainly another Cook was go they do do that. So, some recipes are feasible, several probably not really feasible addressing you said that my editor gave me at some point we discussed because I didn't really want to do a book of recipe I wanted to do a book of my planning of chicken and as I start sending a picture of chicken they say can we get Can we get some recipe with that? And so I shadowed one who is up so I finally ended up doing story about chicken and of course about eggs. At some point you tell me Oh, I think I need more you know more explanation and more angry and and stuff I said but it's not that type of thing. She said well, I said alright fine. So I gave her a recipe from May of last year in Lyon, Leone, where I come from down in France are very well known for the formidable woman cook like well in my family. Actually I have 12 restaurant that I can think of, but restaurant owned by a woman creating my mother's favorite restaurant so they all were very well known for though than the male was yet while in the 40s She had a three star restaurant in the 40s A long time ago. And even book is one of the greatest French chef DVDs apprenticeship there for about one year we should be where the chicken Keith had a blast of course the best quality she can break up front with prefer the skin for it was pushed in a pig's bladder. And oh, she We're at Lake carrot and Ananya the picker batter play and it was for surely so it was brought to the dining room. You know, all athletics are very impressive, but to a certain extent, very, very simple. It was just posting there then the juice was removed, reduced with butter and so with a chicken very impressive but, you know, very simple in a sense. So when she asked me that I said, okay, the chicken male one year, I need a pig bladder to transform when she can bless and she said, What are you talking about? When you were you want a gradient he was lifted a gradient and doing you literaria she said Alright, fine. But they never asked me again.

That's a good that's a good way to end that conversation, right? I have to say, the first time I ever saw somebody cooking in a pig's bladder was I think on Iron Chef, the Japanese one and I looked for years in New York City in the late 90s trying to find a pig's bladder you cannot buy it anymore. You that recipe cannot be made anymore.

I don't know I added on the west coast a few years ago I forget whether the ship did crab in the pig's bladder to a network great. So yeah, it's certainly that's what I said in that book. I will use the chicken waffle and the unborn eggs, chicken comb and chicken feet and many many things like that that people don't use. So Alexis I brushed up on that pretty feasible although I wanted to emphasize the use of the afore the from the feet to the neck to you know as I said the comb and all of that have already been used. So you can leave yourself and late most important the geezer and so forth rather than just people often use only the breast of the chicken or a couple of things. When in fact I choose the chicken also because that may be the most democratic or old food because you will have a chicken in a truckstop you know and then in a cafeteria and Ecuador on Saturday if you go to the hospital probably give you chicken but then you have it in that three star restaurant with truffle under the skin so there is an i don't think i've been you know from China to Russia from West Africa to pull together eatery and I don't think I've ever been in a country where they don't have chicken and often chicken is you know a life sustaining type of thing I remember in West Africa in little villages you know people are very poor but they are three or four chicken you know for the eggs probably more than anything else. And they were almost ready to kill the chicken I was too old and to some type of stupid, but it was kind of a life sustaining thing. Yes. So yeah, that's what I choose chicken and I say of course the eggs which is very more about that the chicken and all of the for the variety of meat that we don't really use and chicken bladder and she can give the liver and the feet and so forth.

So speaking of the wattle on the comb, the recipe you get for that in this book is the bankers chicken the phenol CA But so why would the rich people be going for a walk the waddle and the column has an interesting kind of juxtaposition now.

Yes, but at that time, it was considered like a truffle like other types of things. Something very special. And it is very special to widow we don't use it anymore much. Yeah, it was in a puff paste it was considered quite elegant. And all that and going back to actually the 17th century.

And speaking of guitars, you do have a huge section in the book on geezers. So, one question I've never allowed because I'm stupid. Maybe I've always just braised them. I've never done the coffee. What's the difference in texture when you coffee, the gizzard versus when you do the brace?

Well, it's the recipe that I always do. But I mean when you coffee that the big creamier and more basically creamier and also you keep it in the fat in the refrigerator, you can keep it a long time. Actually, we can do the liver in the same way to me, I often with salt pepper bit of Kodiak's of garlic on all labor, and I poached them slowly in fat until they are still rare inside of pink and keep them in the refrigerator in the fat of the chicken and I keep that for weeks. Take one out you size it almost like a follow up. And it's really relatively very inexpensive. And then certainly where I did my apprenticeship with the invoke on bias where the chicken come from the chicken breasts. I mean, the side of the chicken was probably more fries or as profit practically as better. I mean we use it for everything to select a potato and, or the carrot thing. One thing that I use also in the book of the chicken skin, the chicken skin for me, I find it better than bacon. You know, each time that I do a chicken I take the skin out and put it flat on Pulaski that that does have sold onto a cookie sheet or whatever and cook it in the oven until it's crisp like bacon and an ice probably don't soup on salad or on stew. And the fat of course, which is rather than to use it to serve a potato or the type of vegetable that the way. I mean, that the way I was taught how to cook and also the fact that I when I was a little kid it was during the Second World War. So certainly my mother and other people cooking, were very miserly Cook, because ag radios were very expensive. And you can get them so you use everything certainly.

So another one use you you have in this using the parts of the chicken, of course, chicken liver, I guess it is cheap, it shouldn't be cheap, but it is cheap. You in the 80s put a recipe on or 90s on one of your shows that I used to make constantly. And then you have it in the chicken book again, that kind of your your style of chicken liver moves where you almost make like a meekly in a pan you fried very quickly and then you blend it so that some parts cooked in some parts not it's a great way to make a fast moose.

Oh yeah, that's as good as I do it. Two or three different ways to do it. Usually when you get a whole chicken, at the opening of the chicken, you have one lump of fat on shirt. If you took the student fat together, they're about a quarter of the weight of the liver. So it's Mother Nature organize it this way that you can cut that fat into pieces and run the race and I put time believe black paper on stuff, and then the liver, portion it and eventually emulsify. So you can do it this way. You can also do it by buying and you can buy now very easily on the internet or wherever you buy chicken fat or duck fat and use random fat and started this way. Another way that I do it in another book, I poach the chicken liver, in a bit of chicken stuck with a bit of origin. And remove that and put that in the food processor, not the liquid but and then with the same amount of butter. And with burr it does the same thing too. So there's different ways of doing those boosts. And the beauty of it is that you do it and it freezes quite well. So you know you you do alpha power of chicken liver and you put that into store contender, you have it in your freezer, and then you have people coming for drink, you take that out default setup for it on toast and it makes excellent things to sell with cocktail or with drink.

And a couple more things from the books. So people definitely want people to check this book out. So in the original art of cooking, you have Danny Kay's chicken salad recipe, which by the way, is Yeah, it's a technique I still use where you you know you just bring the bird basically up to the simmer and then let it ride. And then you you burn it out. But if a new book, you give a new secret that you didn't give him the old, which is that he used a stick silverware into the bird to keep it sinking in their stock and not floating.

Right. I mean, that's like our jokes. Whatever that is. How's it done we are going to show you how to polish a chicken so it took a handful of knife and fork and all that from his drawer he put it into the chicken stock but what the heck are you doing so well that the chicken doesn't come to the feel of it stay at the bottom. It will stay the bar already way one way or the other. That's the seseri step but it was fun. So that's what I mentioned it.

Yes, that's funny. So one of my co workers at the French Culinary Institute airvape Molly's day ver he used to do that for Su VT and low temperature. Because if you weren't Yeah, if you weren't using the vacuum, right, if you were just rolling like doing like a ballotine or something and you were rolling it, it might float and so he would always roll in butter knives so that they would sink to the bottom of the bath anyway.

Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah.

Okay, another thing you mentioned, black pepper in your in your liver mousse. And I read in the book that you have the correct opinion that black pepper is superior to white pepper. But that Julia Child did not agree with you.

No, that's true. I mean, those small differences that we had. And we argued to me in the, in the old classic way, she said any white first, you should have white paper called the wet paper and the black one. And each color is done this way. But I mean, people don't realize that green paper called white paper called black paper called is the sand Berry. You know, you have green paper con when the very is not ripe. And it's very flavorful and with less hotness, green paper, and then if you let it dry, then the skin trebled on top. And they turn red, when it's when it's when it's ripe. And then you let it dry out and the skin turn black on top, and you have black paper calm. And during the drying process, they wet it and wash it and it was the skin of the tub. And then they have the center which is the white paper call. Ultimately, the white paper called The green one, the backward is the same way. I feel that the black one or more because of the skin on top which hasn't been removed. But the question of taste.

Speaking of Julia Child's something I did not realize until I read this book, is that the famous Dan Ackroyd sketch where he pretends to be Julia Child, and cuts himself and sprays blood all over the kitchen is actually from a real thing that happened when she cut herself on your knife on her show.

Yes, that's true. It was Tom Snyder, with Tom Snyder, that show called The tomorrow show. And I did it a couple of times with him in New York. And then he had booked to the West Coast. And he asked me Do you can you do it with Julia? And he's like an hour and a half just the two of us. And so I said, Sure. So Julia happen to be on the West Coast, because she'd originated from there. And she was in vacation. And so she bought enough food to feed probably 50 people. And because sometimes I say I don't need recipe doesn't matter. Just cook with Julia. And so I say great. So the I was on a book tour actually, for my book lammeter The second Afghan a technique for donating 78 I believe. So they picked me up at the airport. And I went on that book tour. So the plane I mean, we are taping in the afternoon. And they are to pick me up and rush me to the studio because our deployment a bit late and so forth. And so I rush there, they put me on fish five minute before we start and Julia told me okay, I have this all the food. And I have my knife, because I went on a book to read that is knife with me in my pocket at that time, you could you could bring a knife with you on the plane. Because I do a show in the morning for like 30 seconds. And they want me to get some things right, but who rules or whatever, on television that night with me. So I took that knife and I put it on the counter. When she was telling me what she had. He took the knife to cut a salad and almost took the finger. So I push I push it back together at tight with with a towel. And Tom Snyder was clarity. So what are we going to do? As Julia was mad at ourselves, she said, we're not going to do anything. We're going to cook another test and Jack cook and they don't want to talk about my finger. He said okay, so we start the show. And I think Julia was in the middle and she said we all buy other failure because I think Trump said there was six, seven, he was very, very low. And she's like six, two, and me on the other side. And the thing on thing concider said, Julia, do you mind if I say that you cut your finger, of course. So the camera narrowed down on her and that was the end of it. So two days later, she went on the Johnny Carson Show, and they talked about a finger. A week later I was with her on another show. We were supposed to do omelette. All we did was to talk about our finger. So it became a big thing and eventually they did that thing in Saturday Night Live which was very funny. She actually liked it very much.

I mean, it's a classic sketch. I've seen it I've seen it dozens of times. Yeah, classics. So here's some other couple of strange things in the in the book, interesting recipe ideas. So you have an eggs Jeanette and that was that's named after your mom. You said eggs Jeanette, yes. Right. Mother amounts. Yeah.

My mother used to that that time we were cages that is a combination that are cooked eggs, but then she took the yolk out and crushed it usually she knew that for crush it was shoved garlic and Shep barfle appear here. And the egg yo can fold paper a dash of bills to make it bestie and we start the eggs. And then we sotae the egg stuff side down for a minute or so is brown dutifully, and she already a little bit of the stuffing leftover associated with mustard and olive oil to do a must have chose to sell with it. So we've done that at my house forever. You know, so the idea that I don't remember my wife one time, we had a big party, so she decided to do a Jeanette with quail eggs. But she had like three dozen of quail eggs. She's never do it again. Peter those were like that gut.

Feeling quail eggs is the worst job in the world peeling quail eggs I hate feeling quail eggs Oh my god.

But but it's a very simple and classic recipe and quiet quite good.

But is it amount almost to like an like I know not stuffed as much but like almost like an American deviled egg that's fried on the one side I mean it's such a to as an American growing up with deviled eggs. It's like kind of like oh my god, I can fry a deviled egg. Sounds good.

Yeah, no but what is different remember there I have garlic in the chop garlic and parsley. That's why it's cooked this way and it's not stuff that is your, your deviled eggs. You cut it in half but you pile up the stuffing on top so it's higher here is level you just put enough stuffing to have it level so you can try it.

Yeah. Another thing I had never heard of before you said that when you were in I think it was in France before you came to the US that you would make the French toast with with Cremorne glaze actually melted vanilla ice cream as the instead of like I never thought to do this and it sets up and not there's enough egg in the in the glaze to set it up.

Yes, absolutely. Because we know that the classic French ice cream chat and the vanilla ice cream is done with the English custard cream is done with a gilgen and create your cup of milk. So I deposited in Paris, we did a lot of different type of ice cream. But when I was a breakfast chef, some time pressed by time you know, I started having all the eggs and all that do that I would I would take eight or 10 scoop of vanilla ice cream let it melt on the counter. And when I started doing all their scrambled eggs I deep size of brioche and saute it and serve it with maple syrup. So it was very good.

Try it and then don't don't go trying it people with Philadelphia style ice cream. It must have the egg in it right chef?

No, not really. It will work with that as well. Oh, yes. Hmm.

I'm gonna try it. I'm definitely gonna try it. Okay. I have some questions from before I go more into the book. And the foundation. I have some questions from our listeners. This is from fly Jameson he said, Hey, Chef, I'm so stoked for this episode. When I started listening to the show seven or eight years ago, I was also teaching myself how to cook by watching Zach specials and his amazing show with Julia. Now I'm a pastry chef. And I listen to the show and follow the foundation on Instagram. You've been so influential over the years for me and for so many people I've always loved as for you, Chef, I've loved seeing you share your love of cooking with your family. My two year old loves to help in the kitchen at home. And I wonder if you have any advice for cultivating and teaching very young chefs?

Well, you have to get the kid involved with you. From the moment they are born. I mean, when my daughter was a year and a half older holder in my arm but she's still that part. So can minnows practice she would stir it so she could eat it because of course she made it quote with a father when you know. And likewise, you know, my granddaughter I've done television show with her and when she was more so you know, she stand next to me on a stool at the counter and I say give me the salad you clean the water please help me do that and go to the garden we say okay, give me some barfle I say no, this is Scheibe okay, this is parsley, there's this there's that. Then I take her to the market. You know, I say I need some some tomato or I need some pear. Make sure it's ripe. Did you smell those? Do you think they are ripe? So you get the kid in home like that. And then of course, by the time you finish cooking value you share the food with them and discuss the discussion continue. So egeria report and also I think it's important to give the kid what you are eating exactly in the same way I don't think I ever did. The, you know, the the food for for my daughter, when she was small, we, whatever I cook before I put too much salt pepper in it, she learning I put it in the in the blender. And, and that's what she adds. So, you know, by the time she was six or seven years old if we give her some spaghetti and clams so she knew the pace because she added in a period when she was small, you know. So that's important to do that too, I think.

And Frank wants to know, what is the most fun experience you had during the PBS show? Cooking with Julia Child was most fun if you remember anything specific.

We have many, many fun show to start with. People don't realize that we are though recipie there. Conventionally when you do a theory. And I do, I did 12 theory of 26 show. So you do a theory of a six show, you usually come with a book and or at least the Manuscript of the Book to get an idea to the package. But you're going to do it over here, we are already up where the list is, okay, let's do skew tomorrow. Let's do this that. So it was a bit more complicated for the camera about probably two to follow us because they didn't know what we were going to do. And but for us, it was more fun cooking. You know, if I put carry on in that dish, it because they happen to be on the counter. And I was cooking and I put them in I didn't have to worry about a recipe. That was one thing. The second thing is that when you do show like I do on PBS, I was told at the beginning, you have to do it on time, because editing is very expensive and all that. So for several theory, I did it on time with a guy going by saying a 10 minute, five minute three minute wrap up and so forth. With Julia she did. She said, we're going to cook and the minute finish would tell you some show were like 7080 minute, you know. So we had no recipie we had no do time limit. And we have a lot of wind. So it was a fun shoot a

friend of mine and an FCI graduate, by the way, who has a very successful pastry business in Nebraska, Angela Garbus wants to know, from Goldenrod pastries, how did you take on leadership and the teaching of students employees, you were always good at it at the FBI. But I'm curious how you took that on and learn the best ways early in your career to be a mentor?

Well, I don't know. I'm very Caucasian. So I like to break things down. And that's what I started to do with that techniques, breaking things down into simple technique to show people how to do it, I would never really thought of it. When I started cooking, and doing show on the road. I would never have showed people I don't know how to pin a carrot. I said when anyone knows how to be the carrot except when I did it. So people say oh, that's how you do it. So I started taking those very basic technique out to Peter. And this is why my booklet technique and all that it's still in print. It's over 50 years old now. So I don't, I don't cook the same way that I did 50 years ago. But the technique remained the same. The way you sharpen a knife, or the way you feel understood, I guess, you know, or the way you push down eggs is the same way that it was 50 years ago. That's why those books are still in print. So it started there for me, teaching people explaining all of those basic principles. So so that may, you know, I always like to teach and explain and so forth. So that was the beginning of it.

So speaking of the way to do things, and the things that don't change, there are many, many, many ways to bone out a chicken. And then there is the sharp pan way to bone out a chicken, which I learned I saw you do it on TV. I saw you do it many times at the French Culinary Institute. How many seconds did it used to take you to bone a chicken?

I don't know. But it's not. It's important, I think because if you know how to burn out the chicken and cut exactly in the giant of the hip and in the joints of the shoulder, then you know how to do a dark you know how to do aquarelle you know how to do a goose, you know how to do it, okay. And you know how to carve in the dining room and the bird is cooked because all of those cuts are always in the same place where you got to break down, take the meat of the carcass. So it's important to take some and, you know, all of those techniques are important and basically it's a question of repeat, repeat, repeat. Repeat the way we were trying to attend an apprentice. When an apprentice, you know, well of course I was 1314 years old so I was young And the chef will tell you do this. And you will never have say why? Because if you say why would tell you, because I just told you, that was about the end of the explanation. So the learning was through osmosis more at some point, the shutdown the Okay, tomorrow you started the stove, I say I started there. So I never got close to the stove except to put coal in it or wood at that time. And so then I started that the stove and I knew how to do it. So you know, the learning was, was different type of osmosis. But by repeating, repeating, repeating, you get, you know, you transcend the level at which you have to think about it. If I am on television, I don't have to think about it, you know, my hands are just working. And I just think in terms of the texture, or the color or the gradient or whatever. So it's, it's a different way of learning but But certainly, I think that any great chef from Daniel Bulu, Thomas Keller, or topical EQ, and all that our first good technician, then they happen to have talent. And they happen to have talent, and they happen to have drive. And they happen to the other thing than just the technique. But the technique, I think, are very, very important to start with. I know a fair amount of chef who are very good technicians and run a good kitchen and with a good food cost and so forth, and are relatively by doggies, and run relatively good kitchen, and are not great chefs at all. They're relatively ordinary cook, but you need to really be or they say a great chef, then you have to be a good technician and then after that.

So another question I have for those that you know, know your career, you were for a time the equivalent of the White House Chef in France, and you were the chef for Charles de Gaulle, which is kind of an amazing it's an amazing thing to have on your on your resume. And Sam wants to know, what's the and I kind of know a little bit just reading the book because you talk about what he likes to eat in the chicken book. But Sam wants to know, what's the weirdest thing that de Gaulle like to eat?

The wheel the thing they think we are that he likes to it, it was, you know, you have to when you are cooking ahead of time, I say of people like I don't know either way or Nehru, Tito, I mean, the head of state at the time. You try to please the people that you're going to serve with coming from different countries. And that's when I cook only for the president himself. That is on Sunday, for example. They were devout churchgoer and Catholic. And so at that point, after that the family always came to eat the children, grandchildren and old family. And at that point, of course, they ate exactly what they wanted. And when they wanted to have relatively simple food from and I go around to a porch, fish and I would discuss the menu is of course, the gold and the fact that they want it. But there was nothing really we have the usual Oh yeah.

And you said your boss before him at spent a lot of Francis money having you cook all sorts of crazy things and that the De Gaulle family was very kind of above board.

Yes, I mean, when, you know, you do special reception for Edo state of New York caviar, you have wellgo you have your expensive stuff. But when I cook on that Sunday meal for the family, then they will officiate on paying from their own pocket, which was, as I said, kind of a drop of water in the amount of money that we spend is when a question of principle, very ethical type people.

Chef Andy Ricker wants to know and of course you have recipes in here so I know the answer. Do you ever cook with Chili's?

Yeah, of course. I do. Yeah. I mean, you're at a house or an apartment in Playa Del Carmen in Mexico. And for over 10 years, 15 years my wife and I have used to spend a couple of months during the winter so regardless of the country where I am, yes, I would go the market and they all kind of dry chili and cook with payment going around with them at different recipient default of my book with

a queen you said we had a couple more questions for Chef off the discord. What do you got? Yeah,

we do. As you Nice to talk to Chef Matt from Mystic asks, I'm curious, what are Jacque thinks of modernist techniques like cvwd, low temperature, and how they fit into the history of cooking?

Well, I tell you something for 10 years from 1960 to 1970, I was the director of research for our Johnson and I work there. At that time we were take a recipe that we developed until Thursday or Friday at that time, I would take a whole whole breast double breast of Turkey, for example, put it into a plastic bag and roll the air out of it. And that's us for cryo Vax, cryo Vax and we lower it into water, not too hot and cook it this way. So the seaweed was called out I say, cryo Vax at that time, and it was technique that we did for many, many years to fold the food and also the quality or so forth. So yes, those old technique I made those new technique which seemed that I've been the little advantage just to the air, I can find them very often. Back 30 years 30 years ago.