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Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. Dave Arnold, your host of cookie issues coming to you late but live on Tuesday, like every Tuesday. Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn on the heritage Radio Network calling your questions to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128 got Joe running the show in the engineering booth today. How you doing? I'm doing great. How's it going, Dave? All right. All right. Got stars, the hammer Lopez, as usual, trying to find some extra questions on the Twitter actually using her phone and computer for radio related things today. Is that true? As opposed

to business related? Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, wait, I'm

looking on your

Twitter. Well, we're trying to I think it was, you know, our friend and also museum supporter. I always pronounce it gene drives jondo like John Doe, but Jean like doe and doe like bread anyway, I think he I think he made the egg thing for the circulator. So instead wanted me to comment on it. But we got to find I gotta find the pictures that were sent. I believe it's Shawn dosa thing anyway. So before you do that says when we talk about some of the fun things we did last week, we did on Friday, we did an event turns out that was a fundraiser for the drawing center, right? Yeah. And it was fraud. Adria from El Bulli, the bully was, was having a show of his sketchbooks and we had to make cocktails for it, but apparently we'll talk about that in a minute because we have a caller caller you're on the air.

Hi, this is killin from Sweden. Wow. I'm calling because I've been making tofu and APNIC into for for a while. I wanted to make some soy milk but it tastes awful. It's really beanie and gross.

Right? Have you had soil that you like before? By itself?

Yeah, definitely. I'm a vegan so I eat a lot of certain Okay, a lot of it is shit but some of its alright.

So your question then presumably is how to get rid of the bean Enos Correct. Well, are you making a thin like how many sorry to go American units on you but like roughly like how many cups of soy or how many? What's your ratio of water to soybean?

We I think it's about One to like five, like one, one cup of beans to five cups of water and something like that

one cup dry to five. soaked, soaked. Okay. Yeah. So that's kind of medium, right? It's not too thick, not too thin. I'm wondering. I'm wondering whether or not you should maybe go thinner to get rid of and you're cooking the heck out of it. Right. You're, you're straining it and then cooking the heck out of it. Yeah,

correct. I've even tried like shocking it. That was a suggestion someone had on the internet as to shock the beans and then cook them after that. But it didn't seem to make a difference.

We mean, like shock, like after you.

They weren't they were supposedly, supposedly the beanie pieces in the skins somewhere. So you were supposed to shock them in boiling water and then cook them again after that, which didn't really make any sense to me. But I gave it a try anyway, and it

didn't work. No. And you're not using the soaking water. Right? No, correct. Yeah. Shoot, and they're soaked all the way through, presumably. Yeah. I wonder. So the theory on the internet is that the beanie taste is water soluble, and but it can be removed from the whole area.

Yeah, I read something about people actually showing soybeans mechanically, somehow. That's not really possible at

home. Yeah, no. I mean, like, obviously, when you're doing it's, you know, the outsides will slip off from time to time. But it's not something that you could do in a sort of repeatable way. Just interesting. So I only ever make tofu. I've never tried to make just a milk for the milk sake. I mean, I've made Yuba and I've made, you know, various kinds of tofu. But I've never, never tried to focus on just a milk by itself. I'm wondering, you know, how like, one of the interesting things about soy is that, you know, everyone says that, you know, it's hard to overstate it. And then some people say, Well, you can over soak it, but nobody really says what over soaking means my theory is, is that if you've ever let the soybeans soak for a long time, that they start to ferment, and it's kind of the ferment that they're not liking, and not any actual sort of over soaking of the bean. I'm wondering if there is something water soluble, that's extractable from in a beanie way. Whether or not multiple soaks? With a change of water might help, or or see, I don't think you'd be wise to do like a pre boil of it before you grind? Because I don't know that that'll probably affect yield when you think so. I have no clue. Yeah, this is something I'm sure that people have worried about quite extensively, because people who buy the stuff commercially, probably don't want the beanie taste. And I know that other, you know, other foods that have bad beanie tastes to them, like guar, for instance. You know, commercially, they extract the beanie taste from them, charge a premium, but because they don't want the beanie beanie taste. So I'm gonna have to do some research because I've never tried to reduce the busyness of soy. But it's a huge problem. Because remember, people dope, all kinds of products with soy all the time. And the main gripe that they you have with it is the beanie flavor fronts. And

even, yep, go ahead. Even the best ones are kind of beanie.

Yeah, well, and so like, for instance, you know, when you try to like one of the reasons to use soy in, in snack foods is to increase kind of crunchiness without having to dope with gluten, right, or to add the protein fraction to things with that. But being this is a constant problem. And the Beingness the higher temperature that you put something to the more prevalent that beany flavor is, you know what I mean? Like really, like in terms of in terms of like high, high pressure and temperature, snack foods, for instance. So so this is something that people worry about quite a bit, but I haven't tried to address it. But I've, you know, we've I've had a bunch of tofu questions recently. And I started, you know, after a couple year hiatus, you know, making tofu on a regular basis again, at home. So, you know, over the next couple of weeks, I'm sure I'll be making a couple batches of soy milk. And I feel really dumb. I have not even tasted the soy milk. I just don't even taste it. I look at it to see what it's like, and then I hit it with with the coagulant. So I'll look into it. And I'll see if I can figure out anything. And then you know, I'll report back on the show. And if anyone out there listening has any ideas, please tweet it in, and then we'll have some sort of Twitter exchange about it. All righty, sorry, I couldn't be more direct help. No, that's great. Thank you. Alright, cool. We'll work on that. That's interesting. You like tofu stars. Is that one of the things you actually like it? Wow, surprisingly, surprisingly, stars comes out on the right side of the of the tasty thing this time. Anyways. So before we go into the questions that we have, why don't I have another caller? All right. All right. Caller you're on the air.

Hey, Dave. Love the show. I found podcasts a little while ago. Oh, and I can't stop listening to it all. Thanks. I've got a question for you about the brisket. Okay, a second cup brisket. And you know, the more research you do online, the fewer answers you've signed, and the more questions you have. Right. So what I wanted to do is I've got this stovetop smoker, I wanted to throw it in there for about 15 minutes, get some smoke on it, then, you know, back it up and put it in for say, 72 hours. Let it go. Right. My problem, though, is, you know, with the second cup risky, a lot of college there. So, I'm concerned that if I do it at a low temperature, say 140 Fahrenheit, then I'm going to be you know, it's not going to melt. I'm going to be left with all that collagen in there. Right.

So if you don't you've done a lot of low temp long term low temperature cooking already or No,

I wouldn't say a lot. I got myself II a nova to the cooker. months ago. Right. And I should say, I love

it. I haven't used that one. So you like it? Yeah,

I think it's great. Nice. All right. She was doing your book to an A but

can't beat that. Yeah. Okay, but have you done a lot of long, long time, low temp work? Like have you done like, for instance, like short ribs or any of those things? I did. I did short ribs and they were fantastic. What what time temperature do you use for the short ribs?

The short ribs? I did, I think, let's say 137? I think I did.

So that's like 58 Celsius for that. Yeah, yeah.

And I actually did two bags, it one with nothing in it. And one I poured some barbecue sauce in and I actually prefer the one with the barbecue sauce.

Okay, yeah, you need to remember when you're doing long cooks like that, though, with sauce. Barbecue sauce is quite thick as it is. But one of the mistakes people make when they're bagging this stuff is they they put a sauce in that has a too high of a water content. And then when the meat gives up its liquid as it cooks in the bag. As you notice the other you know, the other one gave up, you know, it's liquid. Like it ends up having so much liquid in the bag that it tastes more poached, you know. And so when we did a lot of short ribs with more of a French sauce on it at the French culinary. You know, like the comparison we always made as it stops tasting like a braised and more like a pot of food. You know what I mean? So it's, yeah, that's something to look out for. But so you're cooking like 58? For about how long?

I did almost 72 hours.

Okay, so here's the here's the here's how it works with low temperature. And for brisket specifically, specifically for smoked and barbecue style briskets, you're going to want to look at marnus cuisine, and Christiane because he's a bit of a barbecue fanatic. And so he spent a lot of time worrying about kind of smoking and temperatures. But in general, to answer your question, the collagen will never render out, the collagen will get soft, and it will get the everything will get moist, but neither the fat nor the collagen will render. So if you look into like one of the benefits of a low temperature, low temperature, meat cooked for long term like this, is that as opposed to a brace, it has very high slice ability, right, but very little collagen rendering. Now the difference is in a traditional like Texas style barbecue, you know, where it's cooked for a lot brisket where it's cooked for a long period of time, right, you do get some of that cotton, you get that some of that collagen rendering, but you also still have slice ability, right, because it's a different kind of cooking than a braids where everything gets busted up, right? In a low temperature cooking, the temperatures are never high enough for the college and to melt out of its out of its location once it covers to gelatin. So you end up having very soft, and you still have an anxious mouthfeel but it hasn't totally, you know imbued the entire piece of meat with that melted collagen. Now, the reason you don't need that when you're doing low temperature work is that you've never overcooked the protein to the point where it requires a lot of extra liquid for, for it to be palatable again, right. So in a traditional long cook, you go from a period of kind of dry tough meat all of a sudden it gets good again, right? And you know, it's one of the things you learn when you're doing long temperature, you know, like traditional braces or or you know, barbecue, things like that. And low temperature cooking never works that way. Because the trick is is that you never take that first step of overcooking the protein and then you're just waiting for a long time for the college and to break down into gelatin but still it never renders out. The one thing that I will say that bothers people is the fat that never renders out. So like fat caps and stuff. I tend to trim more in when I'm doing low temp meats than I do when you know when I'm doing traditional where I don't have to worry about it because it's going to render out and go into the sauce anyway. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes sense. I see the college and isn't going to have like I've never eaten you know unrendered collagen is not going to have like a bad taste or mouthfeel

No, it's gonna be great. No, the, like, the only thing, it's not going to break down our, you know, our actual, you know, pieces of Grizzle, like, you know elastin and that kind of stuff won't break down, but collagen will break down just fine, it just won't melt out of its place. So you'll still see, you'll still see it, but it will be soft. You know what, here's another thing when you're when you're taking into account, how how things go, is that, and I have a lot more experience with long cooks and short ribs because I have to, I used to have to do it incessantly when I was teaching, right. And so what you notice is is that you choose your you choose how you want the meat to be done, right. And then you have to choose the time based on the texture that you want. And so what happens is, is that, because you're not overcooking it, with temperature wise, it never is dry. And so what happens is, it just goes from being tough to progressively more tender and eventually to being mushy. Okay. And, and the because the temperatures that you're cooking with are so low, a couple of degrees makes a big difference in how long you need to cook something to get a particular texture. So for instance, if you cook a short rib at 57 degrees Fahrenheit, sorry, 57 degrees Celsius, which is roughly 135 degrees Fahrenheit, and you cook that for 24 hours, like pretty much on the on the nose, the that will have the texture of skirt steak. Okay. And I liked that people don't expect it to short ribs. So people usually don't prefer it. But I know a couple restaurants I think Roberta is I think, you know, Carlo used to use a similar number as that and sell it almost like it's a steak it eats like a steak. Now if you're doing that way you don't want any salt or anything on it, because it's going to affect the texture and make the texture more cured. Right. If you cook that same one for 48 To 50 to 56 hours, then you start being a traditional softness of a short rib, right. And then if you cook that for 72 hours, in my in my feeling it's a little too soft. And what happens when something gets too soft, in my in my opinion, is when you bite in it, the fibers break up too easily and give up their juice kind of too easily it loses too much of its structure. Now, if you were to do Michelle Rashard and, and, and Bruno who so when they were doing some of their like early kind of, you know, virtual. So this is what low temperature stuff can do. They were doing short ribs down at like 54.4 degrees Celsius, right, which is, you know, rare, rare. And they're they needed, they needed a full 72 Just to get it to normal short rib range. Right. Now, if you go all the way up to 60. And I think we've done a lot of tests of 57 is kind of an interesting, which is 135 is really is interesting in that kind of meat because people aren't used to having it that rare. It's like an immediate rare estate. But it's still, you know, not so rare that people are like, this is some old timers, if you give them a rare, a rare brisket like that, or rare short rib dope, they don't understand it. They're like, what, what are you doing to me? Are you poisoning me what's going on, you know what I mean. But I think most people end up preferring closer to 60, which is 140, which is you know, the kind of the other numbers that you've been dealing with. So I think that's a good like, 140 And I think at 140, you probably don't need to go more than like 48. So I would test one at like 48 hours and I think a prelim smoke isn't going to hurt anything from a taste standpoint, but you know, I wouldn't necessarily expect the awesome smoke ring that you would get out of a traditional thing although you can have it happen with I used to get it by accident sometimes when I you know used carrying salts and for like exactly the wrong amount of time, I would get it just right. But I've never been the master of the smokescreen. But Chris Young. Yeah, has detailed this stuff extensively. And I'm sure if you go to chefsteps.com chefsteps.com I'm sure that they will, you know, have like, if they don't have a specific protocol for you. They'll they'll provide one right? Yeah,

I love ChefSteps. And you actually touched on one follow up item I wanted to ask about which was salting before putting it in, right. I had read somewhere someone suggested salting, put some salt and cracked pepper on it for I put in the fridge for about two hours and then get started. I've read or rundown on gulping steaks before cooking cvwd But I wasn't sure how that would apply to say a brisket.

Well, it all depends on what you want. So you just have to you have to pay attention. So if you like the results are pretty clear that if you saw me before you cook it and this actually ties into a question I have to answer later today about kosher meats If you saw me looking kosher to Oh, yeah. All right. Well, so there's that, you know, so like, you know, you'll hopefully hear later on I have a question on, you know, the person says, I think that kosher meats, beef specifically, you know, isn't as good or I hear it's not as good. He can't tell because He only eats kosher. So he can't do side bys. Right. Right. Same with me. Yeah. So, well, well, it might as well I'll get into it now. And I'll address anything I miss later. So the issue is, if you saw it beforehand, it changes the texture of the meat. So traditional, you know, steak texture is looser than and I don't know any better way to say it, but it's looser than not necessarily more tender, just looser than meat that's been salted. Right. And, you know, if you and you could tell the difference, even between something that is salted, you know, and meant to be sitting around for a while versus something that's even fresh, salted when you're doing koshering on it right? Now, I've read and that's just and this is why, you know, for you know, even you know, folks that were non, you know, kosher right? Back in the day, but you know, before, you know, we all forget everyone brines now but I'm pretty sure that you know, the people who were the folks that made brining what it is today in the community in in poultry, is a Cook's Illustrated so whether you love them or whether you hate them, I mean, I know. That's how I got into brining. And I think most of us, you know, you know, decades ago, that's how they got into brining in the early days of books illustrated in the 90s, early 90s. Right. And, you know, one of the observations everyone used to make was that, hey, look at kosher kosher chicken is typically better than better than a regular chicken when you're cooking it, you know, in a traditional fashion. And the reason is because it's been salted. Right. I mean, that mean, that's the, that is the reason and so, you know, I think a lot of the lot of the reason except for a lot of times are smaller producers and can get a higher quality out of it. A lot of the reason to specifically look for a kosher bird, once you start brining at you know, is not there. Now, meats, beef is not the it's not the same. So beef, because you're not cooking into those higher temperatures, you don't really necessarily need the protection that the salting gives you from drying as the meat when you're cooking it because, you know, fundamentally, the reason the brine poultry, when you're doing it is one for flavor, right? I mean, if it's not for if it's not to get rid of the right for you what are the primary reasons is to get rid of the blood so that you can you know, comply with its kosher laws. But you know, the other reasons are to to Season Two meat and to have the salt alter the conformation to the protein such that they hold on to their water better and respond better to overcooking without drying out. Now, in a steak, that's going to be cooked rare, that's not an issue because you you're cooking it rare, you're not going to overcook the the meat. And so you don't want the salt in there because the altered proteins aren't, don't taste the same. They don't have the same texture as an unsalted piece of rare steak does. They're not bad, they're just different. So you know, one of the things that I was wondering is, is that I know it's allowed, I went on kind of the you know, the hardest core group that I could find was, you know, the Shabbat Lebovits years, and I looked at their koshering thing. And apparently you can get you know, properly slaughtered meat that has not yet been salted and salted yourself at home. And if you look at the numbers, right, so to properly kosher a steak, you're going to need to soak it for I think it's like a half hour I have the numbers in the iPad, but you know, it's gone to sleep right now it's like half hour or an hour or something like that in water. And that's going to be fine, that's not going to do too much damage to it, it'll take on some water, but that's not a big deal from a textural standpoint, right. And then you rinse off anything, you know, any cloths or anything that on the outside, and now you assaulted for a half hour, right? And that salting for a half hour and then you're required a you know a triple rinse after that. My feeling is if you have a good thick steak and you do that, that and you cook it right away, that the meat is going to have a very similar texture to an uncultured piece of meat from from a protein standpoint texture. So if you if you can get away with that if you can swing that to do this, then I will do a side by side on that versus one that's had the salting done at the butcher shop because from my reading apparently both are allowed and that will allow you to have kind of a side by side on what the you know what the difference would be between something that we'd assaulted a long time before and something that had now the other thing is depends on how thorough their rinsing of the salt off is as well. All, you know are how thick the piece of meat is. I mean, I don't know what the laws are on how thick a piece of meat, you're allowed to kosher that way with it with a simple half hour salting. But I know this, if you sold a steak, and you cook it in, in a bath for an hour, it still tastes like a normal steak. If you salt it, and you cook it for an hour and a half, you know, it still stays like a normal state, two hours, three hours, then you start having more of the texture of a cured steak even when it's rare. Now luckily for you on a brisket, it you know you're cooking it above that rare temperature anyway. And so you're not going to have those same issues. Does that make sense?

Yeah, so you're saying that it shouldn't really matter?

Not at not at those temperatures, i My feeling is is that once you're above, like 135, or there about like the difference between the salted and unsalted is not going to make that much not going to make as much of a difference. And I'm

if I'm starting with a kosher piece of meat anyway, then there isn't really any sense to salting at home again.

Well, I don't know. I mean, the question is, like, you know, if you cook it, and again, I don't know how much of the salt is in it, and then stays in it after the triple rinse, because remember, your triple rinsing it after you salt it is to get the surface salt off, but I don't know how much is still in the meat because it's only been sitting a half hour. So a lot is gonna depend on how thick the meat is, you know, assaulting beforehand, might still make a big difference, because you remember when you're when you're assaulting a steak, to sear it. Typically, you're putting a boat ton of salt on it, you know what I mean? You grind a lot of pepper on it and you put a good salting on the outside. And now that sucker is sitting in a bag at high temperature for a long time. And so you're getting a lot more salt penetration than you would out of let's say a, you know, out of a piece of meat, it's been kosher for the minimum half an hour salt time on each side. So that makes sense. So it might still be an issue. I've never done a side by side for instance, on going to a kosher butcher shop and worrying two different thicknesses of the same cut that have both been salted after their cut to see whether or not there's a big difference in texture between those low temperature coat. That'd be an interesting test to run. You know. I just don't know.

Right? All right, well, I'll put it in a plug. If you want to find some kosher meat my buddy runs this company grown behold in Brooklyn, where you can get some good kosher meat.

It's called grow and behold, yeah, all right. Check it out. They do a good job.

Yeah, I think so. And just before I go if you have any modernist Super Bowl ideas for next

week oh, Monique was that's more of a star thing. I was gonna ask her what she's doing for the Super Bowl. You're gonna see yours awesome stuff. Are you having the party at your house or someone else's house? I'll Phil's house. And stashes friends hate food. Is that true or false?

It's true. They love foodies don't

care, Phil. Phil, Phil Bravo who I'm allowed to make fun of because he was supposed to come on the show and like do some announcing for us and never did like you know he's his is like signature dish is bone and overcooked tilapia. So like, I doubt they're gonna have any modernist stuff at the statue stuff. You know, for Super Bowl. I don't even know if I mean, I'm sure I'll have it on because I have a TV this year for the first time in a long time. But you know, like if I was going to do I mean, here's the other issue. My wife doesn't really like wings. I know this sounds bad. But my wife doesn't like wings because she doesn't like to bounce. I like nachos a lot. Maybe I'll make maybe I'll make a boatload of nachos. In which case, I'll just be using the series all to do a to do a, you know, a cheese toast on that. I got to think about it. We didn't really do a good job of picking a Super Bowl stuff for the program. That was good, because you're the only one that cares. But you don't care about coming up with stuff for the show. So the tailgate? Yes, that's what do you do with the tailgate?

We use it for everything we grilled sausages. We boiled beans by holding it under the pot. We made s'mores

that year. So you did the Broadstone right. Yeah, so they did the sausage they did like the classic like 140 cook off of the sausage, and then sear off with the with the sizzle, by the way, like it's not necessarily like it's not really modernist, but the pre Cook of a sausage in you know, whatever kind of sausage you want your case beef obviously, or lamb lamb sausage delicious. You know, it pre cooking it at 6140 and then doing like a flash finish on the outside. It's such a technically superior way to cook a sausage, that it surprises me that you would ever cook a sausage a different way. Unless you know you need to cook one right now and you didn't want to bust out a circuit. If you had a circulator, I wouldn't see any reason to cook a sausage any different way.

So, bring it up to 16

Doesn't matter how long I let it ride for a while I usually put it I usually put the sausage is in ziplocs with with a little bit of oil, and I let him ride for a while a couple hours usually at 60. And here's the reason is that in a sausage, you're using the grinder to break up typically tough pieces of meat and, and the tender isation is a mechanical one right grinding, and then you have fat to lubricate the meat because you're going to overcook the meat, right? So you know, you're going to overcook the meat and you know that it's tough. So you have a lot of fat and you grind the hell out of it, you put it into a casing sausage. Now, if you if you say okay, look, I'm going to go low temps, I'm not going to overcook the meat, right? That's one benefit right there. But also remember, each individual grain in the sausage is still from a tougher piece of meat, right? So if you cook it for longer than you normally would, it's going to tenderize now you don't need to cook it for you know, you know, a zillion years. But you know, I let them just sit there at at you know, 140 at 60 for a long time until they're ready to go. And then I let them cool down a little bit. And then I do a quick sear off. And people love those sausages. They really do. Cool. Gotta give it a try. Yeah, yeah, I've ever done any low temperature wings, because that would be a home thing. And like I said, My wife doesn't love it. But like, I guarantee you could do a lot like here like a low temperature wing. Here's the problem with a low temperature wing, I gotta say is that when you when you're doing bone in chicken, low temp, you tend to never lose that little bit of a, there's a little bit of a blood line on the on the bone that's very hard to get rid of. So you get this persistent pinking. And if you do it in a vacuum bag, it gets even worse because the sucking the vacuum on the chicken bones pull some of the pink stuff from the interior the bone almost at least that's what I think to the outside of me. And it just those colors never go away when you're doing low temperature cooking. And that's why like, pretty much 100% of the chicken that I do low temperature, I bone it out first. And so it's not really good for for wings, you know? Yeah,

I actually divvied supreme blog has a recipe for low temperature chicken wings that I tried, and I was not

terribly impressed. Yeah. Do you remember what their specs were?

I don't this was a few months ago.

Yeah, I mean, like I do low temperature chicken all the time. And I think a lot of the problem with low temperature chicken, well, here's what I do. I typically cook the cook the dark meat boned out, I salt it. And then I cook it in, in salted milk for about 45 minutes at 66 or 66, five, depending on how I feel. And I cooked the breast meat at around 64 and a half to 65 for the same amount of time. And then I pull it out of the bag, flash it, flash it dry, by by letting it air out when it's hot, then I do my my breading and I fry them. And the advantage of doing low temperature stuff that way at like a party. Let's say for instance, with Super Bowls. If you have other fried stuff like rings, or fries, that you can fry everything at the same high temperature because you don't need to worry about cooking the chicken it's already cooked. Whereas if you're doing a large fried item like fried chicken, you would normally have to drastically reduce the temperature of the fry oil, or you would never get it cooked all the way through before you burnt the outside. So the pre cook on that I do more from a more from a workflow benefit because if you want to do it without doing the traditional pre step you have to do tenders. That's why chicken tenders are such a good idea from a workflow standpoint, not the and also it's using that crappy piece of meat, but you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's like making it small enough so it can cook all the way through. Whereas if you haven't pre cooked you don't need to worry about it.

Right. All right. Very cool. Thank you. All right, well

have a good Superbowl.

Thank you.

Bye bye. And so just a shout out to the question who the person who wrote in the original question. Judah Maka wrote in and said, but we answered it mostly my question for you today is regarding kosher meat which you may or may not have experience working with. I've heard numerous times from people who've tried both at the quality of Kosher steaks they have eaten at kosher restaurants is significantly worse than what is offered at your average non kosher Steakhouse. The discrepancy is blamed on the koshering processed meat goes through post slaughter being I can't do a side by side because I only kosher. I wonder if you explained from a theoretical standpoint, why this may be the case. I think it has more to do with the actual quality of the meat that's being served rather than the coaching process, but I could very well be wrong. My understanding is that meat is labeled kosher does not have to have the USDA grading as being primary choice for my own kosher shopping experiences. I find it very difficult to find the same consistently good looking cuts, similar to what I noticed even your average grocery purchase case and I wonder if this is where the difference lies. So anyway, I don't know. So that could also be an issue that you don't have access to the hi I have a really kind of weird you want to hear a weird one you have 99 minutes Are you wanting to do want to hear we want, so Okay, so a family member of mine, you know, or it used to be a butcher, and they were butchers for generations, right? Let's do a couple things about the kosher know about. So Well, the way you don't know what started that tail. So, so harsh it is anyway, so he was a butcher in Boston for many years and their specialty was lamb. And one of the things that they used to do was they would, they would supply the kosher market, right, because there weren't that many people who were doing their own lamb slaughter, because they would go, you know, up north of Boston and get their own labs, and then they would do they would do the slaughtering, and they would hire, they'd have, you know, they'd have the, you know, the rabbi there who would do the inspection on the carcasses to make sure that they, you know, were kosher, that there's no blemishes, there's no problems. Now, here's the problem, they paid the rabbi a specific amount of money to check the lamb. Now, the rabbi got paid whether or not the animal passed or not, right, so whether or not they got the kosher stamp on the sucker, if they had to pay whatever the whatever the inspection charge was, so here's how they used to get around this, like, you know, like old school, old school, like Boston thievery kind of stuff, they would they looked for a long time on what the rabbi would do, and one of the things he would do is he would stick his hand inside of the Lamb, and check to make sure that the lining the pleura, the where the lungs were, was not attached, it was free all the way around, and that was, you know, the main check, they would do to make sure that the animal wasn't sick or had a problem. So what these guys used to do is they would shove a knife into a small incision, like up north of where the, the rabbi would check, and they would shove their fingers in and separate the pleura from the, from the from the, you know, the thing so it looked clean. And then when they made that when, you know, when the rabbi came to make the check and check, then he would give it a kosher whether it was kosher or not, you believe that it's a crazy story. Here's another thing I didn't realize is that you can kosher something with, with fire as well by boiling it. And in fact, according to you know, the Lubavitcher site I went on, that's really the only way to do liver because you can't apparently salt the blood out of liver but I had no idea that like, like real kosher like chicken livers had been broiled to they were half done before they were then cooked again. Did you know that I did not know that did not know. Anyway, that was from Judah maca. And so hopefully that answered that question. Okay. Joshua writes in about all before we get to that question, we got a thing from Aaron about pedal valves. And he said, your listeners might like to look up pedal valve.com. And because as everyone who has heard me say it knows I love foot pedals on a sink. But it's kind of difficult to hook up pedals the way I have them. So Erin points is to pedal valve.com, which, you know, has residential foot pedals that you can install into they say to any regular sink. Here's the issue though, I looked at that website, and that'll work that. But for what they want to do, you could get almost any mixing pedal valve for instance, TNS brass, and hook it up the way that they want to although they might give you the adapters and whatnot. The the issue on that website is that those foot pedals you're required to keep your sink in the on position at all times in order to have the foot pedal operate. And I don't know whether you can operate them independently after read more, right, whereas mine that handles the wrist handles are completely independent of the foot. So if you want to operate my sink, like a normal sink with handles, you can if you want to operate it with foot pedals you can or any combination thereof, you can have the hot water on with the wrist handle, and then I can hit the cold water with the foot pedal to moderate the temperature I can do anything I want. So that's the real trick that I don't think that the pedal valve guys are addressing because they're not looking to integrate into a particular faucet. They're looking to integrate into most of the single mixing to faucets anyway, my thoughts on that Joshua writes in about nitro stout and bottles, Dave and Sasha Jack and Joe not Jack he doesn't like this. Anyway, I've been playing around with beer gas, which is a nitrogen and co2 blend to carbonate different beverages in order to get the creamy carbonated mouthfeel of a nitro stout. I started with clarified fruit juices and got nothing. I had a various amounts of gelatin to fruit juice because head retention and beers is protein related and got about 60 seconds of that mouthfeel I wanted before it disappeared. So what is responsible for the properties that nitro stout has? And how can I alter other beverages to have that same a creamy carbonated mouthfeel for as long as possible. I was just in New York on business and made a beeline for sambar and Booker and DAX book and DAX always manages to hit it out of the park. So thank you. I also Have the apothecary type glass bottles you use I would love to find similar where can I get them? Thanks for the great show for helping my culinary education, Joshua. Okay, first of all on our bottles, the small ones, you know, I looked around, you can get them online best bottles.com has some, they're fancier, they're like $6 apiece, I looked on www www dot save on crafts.com. And they do like weddings and stuff. And they had them on like, eight ounce cork top, clear glass apothecary bottles like a 12 count case for not that much for like 18 bucks, that's the way I go, the larger ones we use are actually Escalon tequila Escalon bottles, that they look just like those apothecary bottles, but larger instead of 50 size. So we use those now on the milk nitro stuff. Here's the deal. Beer gas is nitrogen and carbon dioxide, as you say, and the point of beer gas is so that you can have a high pressure on the keg to drive the product through without having a lot of carbonation, right. That's the idea on beer gas, you can have fairly low volumes of carbonation and a fairly high pushing pressure. So the nitrogen is there really to not dissolve into you're not dissolve into your product that much now on a widget, right? In a Guinness, for instance, like it's there to push through and to create small bubbles that lift up to the top and create that head. Right? They're releasing it, they're releasing it that way. Now, these nitro guys don't have a widget in there, right, it's left hand Brewing Company are the ones that are making this like the Nitro stout. And I can't get I can't speak to what they do. But here's what I think they said we considered putting a pat, literally they said in 2010, I think we considered putting a patent on the process, but didn't want our competitors to know how we do it. And here's a little another little secret. Nitrogen is not very soluble in in liquids. And that's really the point of why they're using it in beer gas to begin with. My feeling is they're not using nitrogen, my feeling is they're using nitrous oxide, which is what I use all the time to put creamy mouthfeel into carbonated beverages and have been doing for a long, long, long time. And that's what like a NW Root Beer did. And Suncast. They used to have creamy sodas that had nitrous in them. Nitrous oxide is completely soluble and gas doesn't get in liquid doesn't give a prickly mouthfeel and create and gives you that that exact thing. So what you can do, as a first approximation, if you don't have if you don't have a source of nitrous, like I have it in the bottles, and I have you know, for years, I've had a mixing system where I can mix however much nitrous I want in with my carbon dioxide is you can like kind of pre carbonate something, then put it into an ISI bottle, right? And then hit it with some nitrous. And that'll put a nitrous into it. And it'll see whether or not that is kind of the thing that you're looking for. But since you can't make nitrogen dissolve, effectively in a bottle without a mechanical widget in it. My guess is that and again, I'd be happy to have someone tell me I'm completely wrong. But my guess is that those nitrile guys are saying nitrogen but using nitrous which contains nitrogen. So it's not strictly speaking a lie. But that is my that is my field. What do you say before says, What? zero minutes now? What they're not gonna let me answer any more questions. How many more? Do you have a bunch. Here's the thing I got. I got question in from Sam about parchment paper. I'll deal with that one. Next week. I got another question from Josh in antiga. About keen WA and about lupini beans. I did a lot of research actually on the lupini beans and got some information for you, Josh, but I guess we'll have to get to that next week. And with that, that's the cooking issues.