Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

Today's program has been brought to you by underground meats an American producer of handcrafted salami and cured meats in Madison, Wisconsin. For more information visit shop dot underground food collective.org Or stop by the butcher shop in Madison Wisconsin. You are listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn, if you like this program visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s More

Hello and welcome to cooking issues this is Dave on your host of cooking issues coming to you live from number three in Brooklyn's Bushwick Bushwick I wish it was book with that'd be awesome as you visit just all bookstores out here. Yeah, bro Robbie hipster books. Bushwick Brooklyn on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245 joined as usual and start with a hammer loop has no Piper today Piper is working on the Sears all project which is fully funded joined also although Listen people I gotta be honest with you like that's that's the goal we said but stars Tom Tom The sad truth if we only make our goal, what happens? We barely break even not even. It's not about breakeven. It's about getting Sears off to people. But we got some exciting news on the series. I'll talk a little bit later about some things that we're going to add to stretch goals. Maybe later today, some ideas that we're working on for it in case you people care. And for those of you that don't know about the sizzle, the sizzle is now definitely going to happen because our Kickstarter was funded go on Kickstarter, look at if you haven't already, it's an attachment that turns an ordinary torch into a powerful handheld broiler that can finish all kinds of low temperature. In fact, I would go so far as to say that especially if you're at home and you don't own a deck boiler if you own a circulator, you should probably own a series. All right. joined in the studio with Jack and Joe today How you guys doing?

Good. We got Evan here to new engineer.

Hey Evan, how you doing? I enjoying the show. So it's fantastic. And yeah, we haven't really said anything. It's it's nice, though. It's nice to start, you know, like if Nitasha was an engineer, she'd be like, I don't really know. I don't I'm not paying attention. I really care. That's what you'd say. Right? Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. I guess that's why she doesn't have that job though.

Well, he's in the honeymoon periods.

Great. Okay. A little update. Quick from Tom Fisher's the ongoing saga of Tom Fisher's eggnog it's been aging but then we started our eggnog has been aging right. Yeah, we tried it yesterday. Hey, thanks for letting me have this. But listen. That was you couldn't give me a taste when we're loading out. The I'm also I probably ruin the economics. I said I was going to bring in nutmeg and I didn't say yeah, you worry not a huge fan of like No, no, we can do it later. If you'd like a lot of nutmeg are now Yeah. So how was how was your stuff?

It was good just a little skim coat.

It was good was you know is yours better Piper's better we threw his out. Oh, boom. As soon as Piper's like away working. You like talk about his eggnog like It's garbage.

He said, We had to clean out the fridge yesterday. And I said, what about this? And he said, it's garbage about

now. Yeah. Yeah, you know, we can't talk crap about pipelines. Because as he says, my mom listens to the show, which I don't think she does. They don't have internet he's just trying to make us feel like classic like salty sailor Piper talk there, right? Yeah. Yeah. Makes no sense. You know, am I true?

Yes. Might be a good show and heritage radio salty sailor Piper talk. Yeah. Except for the fact

is is like he would just stare the microphone down. But you have to talk into it Piper, because the people on the other side can't see you just staring glaring at the microphone. You know, I'm saying anyways. So anyway, so back to competitiors. For those of you that didn't hear the other event first, while we finished the transition, thanks, because I can't believe like, I'm actually trying to be on task for once and you're like trying to learn Hans will do that a sec. Oh, by the way, we have in the nisi Nam now my brain is on a tangent. Thanks. We have some actual underground meats in the studio with us today. That stars now we're gonna start tasting during the break and then continue tasting after the break and talk about it's very excited about that. Anyway, back to Tom Fisher's eggnog for those of you that don't remember, Thomas was making an A an aged eggnog and we talked about the safety of it, and then whether or not it would thicken up. In fact, it has taken an update on the eighth day ignored from a few weeks back as the recipe indicated, is thickened and turned from an off white to a slightly beige color was yours also be. You know, Booker, my son has to wear a uniform to school every day, like and it's this year, it's maroon and khakis. And if you don't wear a uniform, he you get detention, right. Which frightens him because he he like he takes a bus home and he's worried he's gonna miss the bus. And he's like, extremely nervous about this sort of thing. Anywho so he calls khakis, khakis. He's like are these cool hotkeys? I don't want the tension. I'm like, yes, yes, Booker. Those are khakis anyway, so slightly beige color. However, milkfat is separated from the eggnog and floated to the surface that looks an X and tastes very much like like the thickened cheese like milk fat that rises to the top of on homogenized milk. Should I strain it off and move on? Or is there something nasty going on here? There are no odd smells or tastes hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving. Tom Fisher. Tom Dude, don't strain that sucker off. whisker fat back in baby. You want the fat in the egg? No, you like did you get a crap on top? No. If you have when you've whisked it back in you they you missed that you missed the important third choice there. Tom stir that stuff back in. You know, it's interesting. I don't know why it destabilized or whatever to start back in. I'm sure it's delicious. I did have no case. Is this our first one thing since Thanksgiving? Yeah. Wow. Seems like so long ago. How was your Thanksgiving stuff? I saw you posted like the entire family searing on the stairs up did Yeah. Yeah. They really loved it. Yeah, I like that. There's a picture that Natasha sent me of her mom using the sizzle and then the caption which not shareable and public of what she was shouting while she was using unrelated to the series. Oh, by the way, like completely like, like a diatribe completely unrelated to the actual

so it was because my dad was like, I need to hold it close. You need to hold it close. And then she was she

like went off. I love it. Like can you can you share any of it with us? No. No,

you know what she did her famous fu speech.

You know, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree on this one. And one thing I've learned that Piper somehow is not for years working is like when you're using the Sears or like trying to give you pointers and like Piper, You dunce. Like you don't you don't tell us Dasha how to use the Sears all while she's using it. Right? That's a non starter, right? The non starting non starting thing. But we appear on the phone yet? We do. Awesome. So let's hear. So let's get Pierre on the phone. We're joined via phone today good friend of ours, Pierre chomh, who is a chef here in New York. And also you know from originally from Senegal has what I think is the only at least the only you know one that I know of that's you know good Senegalese cookbook in English on the market here in in the US to excellent book. It's also beautiful, the pictures are beautiful. And having gone to send him he's the chef who sponsored the trip. We went over to Senegal, which was a fantastic trip. And anyway pure. Glad to have you on the show. How

you doing? Hey, Dave. Well, yeah,

good. Good. i By the way, oh, you know, I was reading I had the reason I called you today is we had a question regarding TB Gen coming in. And so I figured which by the way, for those of you that don't know, like it's kind of the national dish of Senegal when you say pure It is the national dish, you want to want to describe it really quickly for the folks.

Chip region is a word of word that translates simply rice and fish. Very familiar more complex than that. It's I would say, it's kind of a version of a pie. You know, if you go to the north of Senegal, that's where you see some other seafood involved with it. But the simple J region is really a fish firm. White fresh fish could be a grouper Ribbit snapper, sometimes blue fish you know it depends. And this stuff with the past the mixture the fishy stuff in the past the mixture and is cooked in a broth that has tomatoes and all the vegetables that are cooked that comes with chia within must be root vegetables, cassava yuca, sweet potatoes, cabbage, and okra. And then there's that same broth. We cook rice in it, the rice is cooked in that slow red tomato broth, and it comes with the rice comes out. Right? Right. Right. That's why I was making the connection with fire. So that's basically what it is you have a rice, red rice, the fish that is partly about the mixture, and the broth that has all the root vegetables and the fish. And it finishes with a tablet such a submarine actually. So it has a sweet and sour and to the to the whole the whole dish.

Remedy also like the characteristic, like when you go to Senegal, right or the what's amazing is the different kinds of fermented products. Yes, absolutely. Right. So baguette without the gauge, you don't have yourself to gin right?

No, no, no, no, absolutely, absolutely. You you're getting deep there. But you're right, the gauge is a big component of the year which and when you cook that broth, you add the gadget to it. And, and the gadget in the in the in the tomato broth that I mentioned. And the yes as well. Another fermented conch, the gauge is a semantic fish and the yet is a semantic conch. And both of these add that umami flavor to the J region. And that's very, very important. You just put a small portion of the gauge because it's very, very important and very very strong so that that's what makes that filament is leveled to the chair.

Right It's potent and strong and for people who aren't used to it it's you know, they're like a little freaked out by the aroma but it's the stuff is straight up delicious the yet especially, I mean the gauge you I guess you can eat the trunk straight a lot, but the yet I can eat that after it's been like braised, I can just eat it. A lot of it. It's good.

I love it. It's It's an acquired taste for some people. But I mean, you and I, we really are adventurous. And I love the gadget. The Yeti is like, you know, it has that too in it. But it also breaks quite easy. If it's good for a long time. It breaks in digest really easily. It's delicious. I love it.

Another word before we get to the actual question, since you know we have you on the phone, we don't get to have you on the phone very often. There's a lot of spices over there that I think have soap mean, obviously, you know, yet engaged or not vegetarian, but there's a lot of fermented products in in Senegalese food that are really really really good for vegetarian cooking that have not become popular with chefs over here. And I think the one that strikes pops right into my head right away is Netta do.

Yes, absolutely. Actually, it's a local form a tree right? It's not a look at the

pod from a tree. Yeah, exactly. A

big room from a tree that allows two men we call it 92. But the fruit itself is called Nari and after the fermentation process that because maybe two and also it's a it's an amazing flavor. It's very popular throughout West Africa. It's not only in Senegal, but you see it in in Mali, in Guinea, even in Nigeria and that comes with different names. But that's the same exact legume fermented legume and it's good for vegetarian days no no no

yeah and it mean in rice dishes in broth it can all of a sudden you know how like a lot of times vegetarian rice dish it's sometimes difficult to get the kind of power of flavor in umami you want and attitude dang delicious.

Amazing you know even you know what, one way to prepare the native to that I particularly like is in the south of Senegal in Kazama which next time we definitely have to make it to that part of Senegal next time we go to Senegal, but you know how they cook it they cook the rice you know as just a simple rice, white rice let's say and at the end of the cooking process when the water has evaporated If you open your path the cover to cover up the right and you dig a hole in the middle of the right and that netted to which you have mixed with poignant to make it you know graded on to make it into a ball liquid thick base and that thick paper is just buried inside the right and you just close it but and you allow it to sit there for like 10 minutes no fire Justin is this device teeming with that method to that nature to bowl or in the picture the what I'm trying to say? Yeah, very, very simple. But

does it perfume the whole thing? Does it perfume, the whole

perfumes the whole thing it and the native to bond itself has that. Very, very flavorful who I love so much is just an amazing, it's really difficult to describe you have to take it very delicious.

Could you do it in a rice cooker?

Oh, yes, absolutely, you can do it in the right cooker. Again, once the water has evaporated, you just dig a hole in the wire in the middle of the rice and you put that bowl of metal to that you mixed with oil and just simply needed to an oil nickel or some chili pepper to bring some heat. But you make a small bowl, you know the size of half of a face, and you put it in the middle of the rice in and you close it back?

Do you use the powder netted to the seeds or the whole pots,

that powder needed to find the whole party is fine, but the powder knitted, which is easier to have here in New York, you know, in the African market. And that's all you use the pattern necessary. And that's why you add the audience because the audience bring that the use of the union would make it into a paste into you know, and you can shape it into a bowl and that little bowl is what you what you put into the rice,

right for people who go out and I hope they do go to you know, fine local African markets and by the net to do not judge do not judge what's going to happen to the food you cook based on the initial dry smell of the net to do it's totally different once it's cooked.

Completely completely. Yeah, I would I would not smell it. I guess I would turn you off. You know, it's very strong. Like I say it's very, very important. But David, you tested it. You know the difference is a drastic difference. It brings so much flavor to any dish any dish vegetarian dishes, you feel like you know you haven't had anything vegetarian before because it's brutally vegetarian but it's so much so much flavor again so much there's

another thing over there that that was really interesting was that you don't even know the name of it. But these fermented onion balls these dried fermented onion balls that are like they look like kind of crushed they look like just chopped up onions and balls and fermented we bought them in a in a market.

Yeah. And they you know what they that's the one the app submitted to to with the fermented. Are we talking about the one it's already shipped right in a bowl or

it's already shipped in a ball and dried. So it's very similar to what you're saying just to dried version of it.

Exactly. Yes. Yes. Yes, exactly.

Those are delicious.

Great initial. Yes. I'm glad you remember those. They are amazing. They're really amazing.

I didn't know they have an attitude in it already. Yeah, this stuff is great. Another another spice that you don't get over here very often, that's more specialized for the coffee tube. Although I'm thinking I'm trying to get that on the menu at Booker. And DAX at the bar is the here's the other thing like Wolof words are impossible for English, you know, American English people to pronounce. I literally sat there for about 10 minutes with the seller, if you remember this, trying to pronounce the spice. And I would think I was saying exactly what he was saying. But I wasn't jet. I can't pronounce it. So like. How do you say in real life? John? John is like no, no, John. I'm like, Yeah, I can't get it. It's impossible to get

it funny. You should. You should. I can definitely take your cocktail that as a book. And that's it. I mean, I knew the number I knew that she came to the festival

with us. And they were talking about a needle. Oh, by the way, folks. Really amazing chef here in New York. Go ahead.

Yeah, she had a special restaurant for for quite some time. It was very popular. She made a salad with it with beet and goat cheese. And cocoa, cocoa powder. I was amazed by the flavor. Well, the

interesting thing about it is it's got a lot of notes of it's got some peppery notes but it also has some more resonant notes it's almost some like a kind of almost I don't know cardamom me notes and resume notes but it's but it's not at all like and people confuse it. It's not at all like what we call Balinese long pepper is totally different, totally different flavor. Ever. And I read in English that their translation into English is good, this one peer grains of saline. But I don't know if that's true or false because you know what?

That's the first time I heard about it. Neither actually, she she mentioned that when she was trying to translate it on her menu. It did take off the labor. I didn't know that, you know, I really didn't know I didn't know that. It was called in English. But

you know, it's called that in English maybe, but no one uses it in English speaking country, so there's no point I think it's much better to try and use the Wolof word the problem is none of us can pronounce it properly. But you know, they use it there and in the in the cafe tuba, which is a great you know, a great and very distinctive kind of Senegalese drink mureeds you know, this Sufi brotherhood, which by the way, they're extremely they weighing you want to talk about that man's not really food, but give me give me a couple of words on the Marines.

Oh, me, oh, you're talking about the Marines. The Marines are like, a Sufi brotherhood, like to say Senegalese Muslims are mostly from food to families. And they also feel you don't really have the traditional, strictly Sunni, in Senegal. And that's also one of the reason why the country is very tolerant, because, you know, they transcend the strictly orthodox type of Islam, as you probably noticed, they've won you in Senegal, you know, it's really, you know, it doesn't strike to you distract you guys, like is strict Muslim country, if it's a 90% Muslim country, but most of them are Sufis. You know, so they are very tolerant of other religions. You know, you know, it's also a lake country is not an Islamic country, per se. So you can have your dreams you can have your, you know, the browser open, you know, to make a long story short, the movie following a man called Amadou Bamba, who came to Senegal during the colonial time and he had a specific type of resistance would be compared to, to Ghandi in India, for instance. And, and they, they growing, they becoming, they probably are right now, the the largest Sufi group in the country. They're very powerful, they're self reliable, they are very entrepreneurial. You know, you see a lot of movies traveling the world, you see many of the people you'd see the Senegalese you'd see selling in the streets of New York City, or GM or Paris, or mostly married, and they, you know, they, like I said, entrepreneurial group, and this coffee that we talking about the drink that we're talking about, is called Cafe to buy. And tuba is the name of the holy city of the movie. You know, that's a city that's a couple hours from the car. The Marines believed that tuba is it going to Dubai is as good as going to the Mecca. You know, the movies go to Dubai, they don't go to Mecca, impregnate, for instance. So basically, that's, you know, into ministers what to monitor?

And our question, by the way, are to get back to the question that someone answered the reason that we're on the on the phone together, they're going to be talking about rice. Now. We, as we said, Dr. Janice rice and fish rice, incredibly important to it usually typically would have been made back in the day with broken rice right to thicken it up.

It didn't make many broken rice in Senegal, which you couldn't make it with, you know, with is regular Jasmine. Right. So that's it, right. But instead of torture, which we've broken, right, yes.

Right. So that's going to release some of the starch in while it's cooking, which is going to be important for the thing that's coming up. But before I get into the question, so for those of you that don't know, kind of Senegalese geography at all the Gaza monsters in the south, right, and and you know, what Pierre was saying the kind of the heart of epogen is in St. Louis, which is in the very north on the river, right. Yes. All right. So or not then. All right. Well, it's in the northern part anyway. Right. St. Louis is

by the river. You're right about so.

So the point is, is that in Casamance, what a lot of people don't think about is that the original rice of Kazimierz is not Asian rice, the original rise of cosmos is is a glob of cream of rice, which was actually domesticated in Africa and I think probably in Senegal and Gambia right that we that's originally where it comes from. Now, those races have been even locally except for in small areas completely. Replaced unfortunately, with with Asian rice correct or not correct.

That's correct. Yes.

Now what Tebow Jen originally When made with the Gleb Rima or wood or is that in other words do they would they also have had to collaborate them up in St. Louis or would it always there have been made with the Asian rice?

No, no, no, it was always the grabber Rima until colonial time until we started to import rice that originally came from the other part of the French colonial empire like the whole Vietnam region. And now our right is unfortunately imported it unfortunately because people prefer to import rice rather than using the local and it's in for imported from from Indonesia and Southeast Asia. But originally not the rice came from from karma from the same region because it wasn't only kava mouth and Gambia but you know, you had the Gabi river is also in Guinea, in Sierra Leone, in Liberia, it will be African rice, you know, and that rice is as ancient, as far as anthropologists are concerned is as mentioned as the Asian, right. So, you know, so we have two families, two major families of rice, the African rice and in the Southeast Asian rice, right came about,

you know, I don't remember because we didn't like we didn't get to go to Cosmos when I went up, I don't know that we even had glaberrima, when we're over there, did we,

I thought we probably didn't know we didn't have glaberrima. Because again, like I said, the whole northern part of Senegal is, is eating imported rice. Remember, one of the reasons why we had this event is to just promote local cuisine and to and to showcase what we really have. And and to change the the people ways of thinking that when it comes from elsewhere, it's better than what we have at home. And that's unfortunately, the case in many of the cities in Africa, you know, we import a lot of our food and, and the local goods are eaten by the inner country by the by the, you know, the rural area, but in urban areas, people think it's best to or to import food from from from elsewhere. And the Asian rice is very, very popular in the northern part of Senegal, in San Luis indica, and it's competing with the traditional dublab Rima, glad ruvuma is still being grown in a very artisanal way. So it's not industrial, it just comes a few months out of the year, like a couple months when the harvest comes, and then you know, it's finished. But it's, you know, it's changing gradually now with people, people are realizing that not only glaberrima is healthier, right, but it has another flavor that we unfortunately, you didn't get to experience when we were there. I'm trying to find a way to bring some lab aroma here in New York, and we will definitely have a taste of it.

Yeah, sure. You know, get New Yorkers like, like me to pay a premium for it, and then maybe it'll get more respected where it comes from, except for then you might have the whatever when I was over there, everyone's talking about the keen Wah problem, you make something that's popular, and then all of a sudden the people who make it and rely on it can no longer afford it. So it's very hard when you don't I mean

it. But you know, that's a good problem to have. Hopefully, the quinoa experience will help us deal with, you know, with that problem before it occurs. It's really something we need to work on. Because that will be so unfortunate to have, you know, cities like this disappear. Because of you know, competition. They great spaces.

All right. So listen, we have a caller who's we're going to we're going to take them together here, wherever the caller is going to ask. But then after that, before we go to break, we're going to get to the question, which is about the crispy rice at the bottom of the table. Jan, someone wants to know how to make it and so I figured the best way is to get a official Senegalese on the on the red but the caller, you're on the air.

Hello, hey. Yeah, but questions on low temp cooking. Specifically, I have a few friends that are pregnant, and I'm wondering about trade offs and cooking to pasteurize or being safe when cooking for people that are pregnant. And you know, bouncing for like fish, beef and chicken against, you know, texture and quality. Yeah. And then also wondering about storage guidelines for low time cooking so without a vacuum,

right. So when I'm cooking for pregnant people with a circulator, which I have a lot when you're cooking eggs for Bendix, just cook them at 62 for a full hour, and they're good, you're safe. When you're doing any other meat cuts, I go to pasteurization temperatures. So like for a 55 degree steak, you're going to want to let it go for probably me it's overkill, but once the core reaches temperature like a hunt Dritan 20 minutes or something like that, that's actually overkill, but I like to overkill when I'm dealing with this because you don't want it to be your fault. So it's going to take you see or the seer the outside you then you cook it it'll you know, a normal sized rib steak will probably start its Kill, kill stuff within at the center will start killing within probably 3040 minutes or so. And then after it reaches that killing stage, you hold it for 120. For this kind of a thing, I really recommend getting one of the iPhone or iPad apps like suevey dashboard or the you know the Polly signs one because they're good at just figuring out exactly based on the thickness like how long it's going to take to get to a temperature when it comes to fish. Fish is kind of a pain in the butt. It's impossible to pasteurize most fishes and still have them taste good fishes fish, and so ones that can tolerate it or the firm flesh white fish. So stripers are good. Because you can cook a striper you know, at 5556 57 It's firm and maybe firmer than you normally like to cook it but it's still it hasn't gone dry. And the meteor white fish like that are better when they're overcooked as opposed to you know, overcooked. You know, tuna is wretched or, you know, overcooked salmon, even at those temperatures is pretty wretched. But a striper can kind of put up with that sort of thing. So those things can be those things can be done. The if you don't have a vacuum the question, you know, you putting it in a Ziploc, you know, it's hard for me to give actual guidelines for storage times. I'm always like when I'm cooking for someone, kind of like just hyper about it when I'm cooking for pregnant or someone who's you know, hospitalized or sick. So I tend not to store things for a long time unless I have to because I'm the only person that can cook for them and I only see them once a week and you should be okay for that especially if they're doing a return and if they do a return they can do like a temporary return in like a really hot bath before they bring it up slowly the temperature and you should be all right. Does that answer the questions? Yeah, thank you and I'm in first year is all in one. Oh really cool. Awesome. Yeah. Sweet sweet. Well enjoy it enjoy it we're gonna we'll talk more about it either later or next week about kind of some new uses we found and where we are in the in thing but thanks so much for backing us have a good one. Alright, thanks. Alright, pure here we are back on the back on the rice and the diva gin. Okay, so this word which is Wolof which I will not will not attempt to pronounce x Oh and then end with the annual Anna How do you say that the crispy rice at the bottom

you got jumped the gun from the from the back of your throat close to the Spanish Hatha you know

oh man, this is impossible. It's impossible here. So, so to backtrack in case you know you're just joining in sativa Gen you take your rice of you take your fish you slice it you stuff it with like a herb mixture. You cook it a little bit with oil and onions then you make a broth and then you put the rice and you cook the tomato you cook it with the broth and the root vegetables. The rice soaks up the liquid but in the bottom of the pot you get this crispy. Say that again. Whole point and for many people this is their favorite part. Yes.

Oh yes it's a it's a must. You know perfectly virgin you have to have that golden crust. Golden brown crust from the bottom of the park when you could be chair when it comes on the side. And it really is a great way to enjoy your weekend it adds texture to it it has that crispy texture to the to the moisturizer. I love it. We love it.

Give me the secrets is it the pot the heat the combination of the heat and the pot is it the oil that goes in the bottom I'm sure the oil has something to do with it but just tell us like the secrets to get a good one.

Absolutely the oil the oil in the past you know when you when you cook it for you start when you start the job and then you start with the oil and the tomatoes. Right you cook the oil and the tomatoes allow it to cook slowly until the tomatoes are cooked. You know you can use tomato and tomato paste actually. And you allow it to cook slowly, slowly until the tomato goes from red to like really dark red, almost black but you don't want to burn it. You don't want to burn it but if you cook it if you see that it's starting to burn at water a little bit at a time like a tablespoon two tablespoons at a time. But slowly you know that's before you add your water that's very to cook the rice and the vegetables and everything else. You have to cook only oil and tomato. Am I making sense? Yeah. So once you cook it to that point where The tomato at goop in the sugar is relieved because you should really think sugar you realize you realize there's a caramelization that's happening that's why the tomato is going from red to almost black but not black you don't want it to be burned again. But that sugar is going to add sugar combination of sugar and oil are going to be the agent that will create your rice

and you know there's there's like a lot of cultures have this love of the crispy bottom of the of the thing in Iranian cooking you have the you know, they're they're crispy stuff at the at the bottom. You know, I think they they use binders like egg and yogurt in theirs right? They cook it and then they do the egg in the yogurt. I forget it's been a long time since I've looked up the recipes for that stuff. And then also in South South Carolina, you know cooking of South Carolina on the old style, which probably is all from West Africa anyway. You know the they have these crispy, crispy casserole rice dishes The difference is Tebow Jen has not turned out like a like a like a casserole dish. It's like it's it's scooped out of the pot and then the crust is served separately. Right? It's presented on a platter.

Yeah, it is separately Exactly. Separately, or if you hit around in a ball like with it traditionally, it's a corner of the ball, you know, it comes on a platter but in order to get on the corner to the people who will be eating the crap because not everyone is the cross you know, we try to like they eat for you know the mature people you don't give it to the kids you give it to the older kids. It's just a whole a whole cultural thing behind behind you know who's allowed to have part of that club

another interesting thing about the crust I'm wondering is is that you know, one of the strange things about Senegalese cooking right now that you know, I just heard from listening to the We went to a seminar about it is that people are using more and more oil, not for the taste, but just as a sign of being able to use more oil in it. Do you think that's affecting the way that the the crust is being formed in general and the average TV Janner affecting cooking in general in Senegal and the way things taste now versus the way they would have tasted a you know, at 100 years ago?

It is affecting it's affecting the way people Yeah, the way people are eating, if, for some reason it is seen as a sign of, of wealth. You know, if the more oil you use, the more affluent you are. That's something that came up, I believe, also again, in colonial times, and gradually when peanut oil arrives, you know, peanut relaxers with palm oil, or, you know, traditional palm food or it was our, our oil of choice. And peanut oil became something pretty really popular with this year, you know, the French factories came and they made peanut oil and peanut was also one of those, you know, crops that were people don't realize it's not what was important to Senegal. It was not a traditional Senegalese crop. You know, it came from the America and as a matter of fact, we had we had something similar to peanut groundnut to know, but it wasn't, it wasn't as it wasn't used to it, you know, oil is used right now. So anyway, it became a sign of affluence, because again, you know, we want it to be like the colonial so, you know, the colonial use that oil we use, the more we use, the more affluent we are, and then it came into our recipes too. And now you see people using more, you know, oil into their rights. And it came it also it also brought some some some diseases. Unfortunately, some diseases get imported with it, you see, diabetes, for instance, which wasn't part of our, of the illnesses that existed in Senegal, it's something that's very popular now, because of that change of diet, you know, and the excess of sodium all those things are affecting the the population Unfortunately, due to the change of diet again, but to get back to your question with the hole in the crust and the oil, that's really the oil is very important to it, but it doesn't have to be in excess. You know, it's important to have the first step when you prepare that rice, the oil and the tomato, studying the cooking process of enough oil but it shouldn't be you know, more than a couple tablespoons of oil you know for a nice pot of rice and you cook it slowly again, cook it slowly before you add once the tomatoes are cooked and knife decarbonized then you add your water allow the water to boil and then you add rice and you cook and you close the rice at that stage and you just close it and lower the heat to a simmer just like You took regular rice, and you forget about it now do not touch that part until all the water or the juice that tomato broth has evaporated, once it has evaporated in allow it to sit for a moment. And then you flip your rice, you will redistribute the tomato, you have the bright red rice. And you realize at the bottom of that part, that crust, that coin that we're talking about, has formed you know, so you pull out the rice and with the spoon, you know, you just take out the crust you know with you know, it takes some some real strength to it, but you put up the first with just this rake the bottom of that box. And that's how you get the crust you know, just allow it to cook slowly. First of all, just again that tomato group and carmelize before you add the rice and then do not touch it do not do it. That the crust form in the bottom. Very, very, very, very simple process. Actually,

I have a beautiful pm appears book that has the recipe for timber Jen, Anna is you'll get it right you'll literally still available right now on Amazon. It's got it's the only one available right?

It's the only one in English available. Yes. Yeah. As a matter of fact, there's another book coming up next fall. We working on it still working title Senegal from the source to the table. You hear about it.

All right. Well Come Come on the show and we'll push it. Absolutely. All right. Thanks, Pierre. Thanks for talking. Talking Chris Cohn you can't pronounce. All right, we're gonna take a commercial break and we'll be right back. Thanks, Bear, back there.

Underground meats is an American producer of handcrafted salami and cured meats in Madison, Wisconsin. They use small farms from Southwest Wisconsin to source their meat. The animals are raised on pasture for their entire lives by farmers who care about animal welfare, while underground meats uses European traditions. They also use ingredients from the Upper Midwest to try to create new types of Salamis experimenting with both ingredients and techniques. The Salamis are made using heritage breeds, mostly red wattles, tambores, Berkshire's and mule foots try their award winning cured pork shoulder and goat salami. To learn more and purchase products visit shop dot underground food collective.org or stopped by their butcher shop in Madison, Wisconsin.

And we're back Welcome to Cooking issues are Welcome back to Good News. You still were tasting the underground meats and I'm gonna get this straight. The ones that they sent us are all they're all goat you said. Pretty sure it's all good salami. Right. Yeah. salumi Goat, goat Lumi. And so we're tasting. What are we taking your stuff?

You just had her.

Ginger. Good. You, ginger. Good. Now, for those of you that don't know. Underground meats recently had a Kickstarter of their own. And they have successfully funded it. And they are now going to work on a hassock plan. So that they can get Hasebe certification. They can do challenge studies they get and then everyone can use it. So look for these guys to help anyone listening to create a hash of plants can allow them to make their own salumi business without having to go through all the expense which ones this one so

that one is goat salami, just goat salami. And then this one is Sassoon sick

good. Salamis. Good business. What do you think? I haven't had any she had to take out take out her really good. Really good stuff. All right. So I mean, the obvious thing tasting it. I'm not going to like torture you guys. We're sitting here eating a wait until we're off Mike toward interesting here eating delicious salami. But