Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming, and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

This is Chris Young, co author of Modernist Cuisine, I'd like to invite you to check out chefsteps.com It's a free website we've created as a place to learn new cooking techniques and collaborate with curious cooks from around the world. Sign up now it chefsteps.com You are listening

to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn, if you'd like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello, and welcome to cookie issues. This is Dave, I'm your host of cookies just coming to you from New Orleans, Louisiana. But the rest of the cookies crews coming to you live from Bushwick Brooklyn with us threatening they're killing us right now without air conditioning. How're you guys doing? Well, we have in the studio today we actually have a full crew over there we have. I think we have Dr. Jack Angelo, the engineering booth or no just me today. He made you suck up the heat. Thanks, Joe. But in the actual little place where we do the show, we have the star to the hammer Lopez as usual. We also have Peter Kim from low fat to talk more and more fat goodness with us. And Piper decided to go and take a hit with us today. How you doing guys? Fine. Yeah. All right. So listen, a note on a note on milkfat Museum of food and drink. This is the last cooking issue show before our Kickstarter and Kickstarter ends on this Saturday. And right now we're still pushing towards our goal. We superduper need everyone's help on this. I mean, it's very critical that we make and break through this goal to get the puffing gun in the museum kind of on track. Do you want to say a few words here?

Yeah, we've got four days we need to raise over $14,000 of you know, it's not just about launching this puffing gun exhibit, but it's really about generating momentum for the museum as a whole. And, you know, we can't really get into the details here. But there's a lot more at stake than just this exhibit. There are a lot of let's just say important people watching and if we have a strong showing here we show that there's broad support for a food Museum here in New York, which I think there should be, then a lot of great things are going to happen for the project. This is really gonna help us rocket forward to opening up. New York's first brick and mortar Food Museum is something we really believe in. We need your help. Please get on to Kickstarter at boom, that molfetta. Org. Right away. Boom, that molfetta. org. We really need your help. Thanks, guys.

Right if you've already backed it, right, you can always go in manage your pledge kick in a few dollars more. It's not going to hurt. You don't have to only pledge whatever you pledge to get your T shirt, whatever my right, Peter.

That's right. And actually real quick story. I was on the phone my brother the other day. And, you know, lamenting to him how stressful this whole process is. And I'm talking to my eight year old nephew, Oliver. And Oliver basically was telling me how amazing the puffing gun looks and how he's so excited by seeing it. And then he said I'll try to do a little impression. Uncle Peter. Uncle Pierre,

I looked at my piggy bank. I have $10 I want to donate $10 to the movement Kickstarter campaign, because it was you puffing gun?

Wow. Are you gonna you're gonna Are you guys out there gonna disappoint that kid.

My eight year old nephew. You want to donate 10 I'm not taking the $10 but that is like, I mean, basically, I think he's, he just gave away his whole life savings right there to mow fat. And so if an eight year old can do that, you know, we've got awesome stuff. $30 Get your great t shirt. $50 get you a tote 300 bucks. And you can see Dave, Harold McGee, Wiley do frame a bunch of other stuffs, puffing whatever they want in the puffing gun. And we'll be doing some really interesting stuff there.

Yeah, no one should be disillusioned when they're 899 is the year of disillusionment.

Absolutely go, what goes on? Yeah.

Let's, let's see whether we can sweeten this up a little bit. People who have listened to the show for a while. may remember several years ago when I lost a bet. And the bet was the bet was to whether or not someone could produce a raw chocolate that I thought was even marginally, halfway decent worth eating is chocolate, right? And if I lost, I would have to eat raw vegan food for a week. And I did. And you know, no offense to people who eat raw vegan every day. But it was horribly unpleasant, and wreaks havoc with my GI tract was put it that way. So I was going to put this to you guys there in the studio. Can we think of an equally unpleasant thing that I can do? And then let's say, Okay, I bet that we don't get more than $10,000 more than then than what we want so that we won't make it tonight. If we make it to 90. I'll go through with whatever unpleasant thing that that we think we should do. What do you think finish your book on time? I had to wait my books already. Busted. Busted. I can't finish something on time. It's already late. I mean, we can create a new deadline. Yeah, you can always create a new deadline. My question is something that the reader that the listeners care about, right? Like, is there anything unpleasant that I can eat some like horrible, stupid diet that I can undertake for a week or two?

Well, here are things we know that Dave hates. What is Dave Hey, Dave hates wraps. Dave hates natto Dave hates cherries. Well,

well, I don't hate them. I love them. I can't have

Viper. You probably know better what what other stuff does Dave hate?

You could do 40 hard boiled eggs like Cool Hand Luke.

That's more of a physical challenge. I gave that sort of thing up. I mean, that gives that sort of thing up when I was in college. I was that guy in college, who I was a guy in college who would eat anything for like, like two bucks. I was like, so cheap. I once ate a gallon of salsa for I think three bucks. I ate like a couple of those. You know, like whole tea bags for like $1 That was like I was that guy. That was me. In commerce. That guy. The bars pay with me.

Yeah. So a gallon of salsa for three bucks for 90,000.

Yeah, but I'm not that guy. Anyway, so once you have kids, my wife is like, really? You can't you can't do things that dumb because it you know, it makes it sends the wrong message to the kids. You know, I

mean, what about the lemonade cleanse?

What's the lemonade cleanse?

It's like maple syrup, and lemonade, and cayenne pepper. And that's all you get all day long.

I mean, I could do that. That's just unpleasant, but it doesn't have me learn anything. It doesn't have any like, is there anything that I've derided horribly? Let's think about it for a couple of minutes. And, by the way, call your question is 271-817-2128 That's 718-497-2128. I'm going to read something in from one of our listeners and supporter of Mossad. By the way, since I don't know them personally, do you think it's Jean doe or John Doe? John Doe would be the better twitter twitter handle right. John Doe is

John Doe. And I've spoken with him extensively they this guy has been a superstar really helping us with outreach.

Yeah, so he wrote in and said, I've learned a lot from cooking show over the several months listen to your pod has pretty close to being caught up all the back episodes. Thank you for freely sharing your in depth knowledge as well as making the methods and techniques so accessible. Also the most that Kickstarter is a food education game changer and I wish you all the best of luck and getting it back to I'm doing what I can do to spread the word. Here's a couple of my thoughts on boom, which is the name of the Kickstarter by the way. On Twitter post requesting puffing ideas, I would call Sean Brock suggested stash I pronounce it the way you hate Pharaoh's mustache. He hates it when I say Pharaoh instead of Farah LFO. And at mark as mentioned, sorghum, ideas are good. But what about encouraging grain farmers, chefs etc to donate interesting ingredients. And as an outreach program that we'll get more people excited about boom, it will be analogous to the communal oven back in the day. I was wondering if you could possibly create your own grain in quotes to puff. I understand that puffing has to do with grain moisture content and the whole containing the grain. The moisture part is easy. Is there a food technology one can easily leverage to create a pseudo whole Well interestingly here that is not that's how normal popcorn style stuff works. But the puffing gun doesn't require the whole the science behind the puffing gun and prepping in general. So when you're putting popcorn, what happens is you have starch and moisture and you heat up the starch and moisture and moisture is trapped not just because of the starch, but because of the skin the hall around the outside of the popcorn until enough pressure can build up that it ruptures that skin and boom exposing the popcorn in the puffing gun. You don't need that layer because you just seal it tight and the whole thing goes under pressure so there's no way for it to expand. There's no way for it to boil or expand with inside of the gun because pressure just simply mounts up then when you pull the lever everything instantly plus uniformly so if you put popcorn in a puffing gun, it comes out as spheres a Peters like totally jacked for that big and he's been like dreaming of these popcorn spheres since since we got the gun. We haven't put fire popcorn in it yet. But that's also why you can put dough based things in and that's how they used to make Cheerios. In fact, this gun was originally designed by Kellogg's to make Cheerios so yes, you can make your own sort of mix of grains and other starches and pop them in no problem. Right Peter? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, the color. Oh, before I take the color shadow finished out. Here's what he would like to buff azuki beans, black sesame and rice. If it works, we could make a tasty motion inspired marshmallow treat. Please tell your listeners that back mopeds, Kickstarter and social day. Right? That's a good idea. Caller you're on the air.

it going guys going alright. Quick one for you. So I've heard your you got to certain affinity for game and I'm like, Dude from Minnesota kill a lot of deer up here. But like 11 a year. And my experience all of our cooking has been with using the face recipes to and applying them to venison, which results your mileage may vary. I was on if you had any suggestions as far as federal ways to make use of all that game meat. And like any thoughts you have. Well,

you have a circulator?

I do yeah, yeah.

So how's this stuff been coming out errors? Like when you do do the beef says And assuming you're doing them you're doing them in a circulator. They still coming out. How are they coming out? Like what like tell me what? Tell me how that how the texture and the flavor of the stuff is coming out when it when it works. I mean, are you killing? Are these younger animals or older animals by and large?

Hello. Hello. Caller. All right. Hello. We're back. All right, we're gonna have to hang up on this caller. What happened? Caller dropped out. Oh, man, cuz I had to answer questions after the question is I want to biologically getting younger animals or older animals because one of the issues with treating game like beef, is that the beef that we get is, I mean, no offense to beef, but relatively neutral in flavor compared to you know, much older animals. So because it's it's younger. And so game meats, the older they are the kind of more flavorful, more different kinds of flavors they're going to have. And if you're doing low temper sushi with them, which is a great idea because you don't have to overcook it and you know, you can kind of, you know, cook it very gently without cooking it. The problem is, is that some of these things can get kind of overwhelming when you cook them for a long time because some of those gamey flavors that come out of what fat there is, other things in the animal tend to accentuate over time as they sit in the bag. And also certain older meats aren't going to get tender no matter what you do, just because the suckers are tough, and that's the problem we had when we cooked. We cooked that bear and we cooked the line as opposed to the Yak which was freakin delicious stuff. You remember the Yak, right? Yeah, that's That was delicious. So, you know, I don't know about any specific, you know, to focus specifically on deer because I unfortunately don't get enough food to cook myself but when I get back to New York, I'm going to take a look. I'm gonna take a look at you know I have after The Hunt which is John falses book on cooking, Louisiana game that he shoots down here, and I know he has a big section on deer. So now I'll check out to see kind of what he thinks about using deer to its best advantage and then try to take those ideas that Piper you you guys have a lot of deer up in Vermont that you eat or no. Yeah, you ever you what have you because the low temp stuff I've done on deer you know, I've done I've done more elk than I've done deer because people have brought me more elk and deer. I've done some deer. What kind of luck have you had with it on low tamping and a recipe for it?

I've never done low temp with it, but sausage works really well. Yep,

the everything tastes good. And sausage man. Why have you looked at that yet? Because you haven't been back there and during deer season or what? Yeah,

I just haven't been back there and in a while. So you're going to rectify that this? This fall? Yes. I got my license. Yeah. All right. Hey, really?

You invited me up? Can I come up? We'll go out together.

Why not? All right. All right.

So then we will get back on that. Okay. You guys come up with any good good bad ideas for the eliminate cleanse? I'll do it. It's fine. I mean, if we decide on that maybe someone can call in with something horrific for me to

do. You could eat Brooklyn for a month.

Oh my god. That's just like that. The problem with that is I just won't see my kids. Yeah, that's that's the thing. Like I can't just move to Brooklyn for a month. And I'm not the one that hates Brooklyn. That's Natasha hates Brooklyn. Member, then she

can eat in Brooklyn for a month.

She'll never do that. She would rather die she'd rather see all of us die. She would rather kill you than eat in Brooklyn every day for a month Am I right? Says No. No what you wouldn't want eat in Brooklyn, are you right? You would do it you would do it to save Vipers life. Wow, that's who you are. You are a good person. Romans writes in pronounced like burns with an M Rory burns from New Zealand hello to the entire cookie issues team and indeed Jesus would indeed Jesus listen to cooking issues with any form of Jesus ever have any sort of cooking issues? Well, really? I don't know if you're aware of this but back in the 90s I think it was the group King missile answered this in a song they wrote called Jesus his way cool. And if you remember Jesus is way cool. He can bake a cake better than anyone remember that you guys remember that song? You guys don't know anything about King Mr.

Song. I know King missiles. I don't know that song. They had that one.

Detachable penis. Everyone listens to detachable penis and they don't listen to Jesus is way cool. You can't listen to detachable penis without, you know, going further and listen to the Jesus is way cool. So that how Jesus like you know, would be awesome. Like to hang around with you know what I mean? Because he's way cool. Anyway, I assume that's what he was referring to. Anyway, he's traveling from New York, to New York from New Zealand around September, October this year, and had a couple of questions. One, I had some questions a while back about a red pepper sauce that you and your listeners helped me out with. This is a product that is sold here commercially, that's New Zealand. So it's totally legit. I'd like to drop off a sample to the cooking issues team to taste and critique if they'd like. I'd love to hear your opinions on the stuff where would I be able to drop it off? Roberto Booker and DAX and what else? I just dropped it at the bar poker index, right? So make sure you put my name on it are those fools they will just eat it. They'll just eat it and be like, Oh, we ate this hot sauce. Don't know why had your name on it. My right. Yes. Okay. Well in New York, I was hoping well, whatever. Jackals are there. Yeah, I seriously they're like vultures, vultures and jackals any sort of scavenger some fly some crawl. While in New York I was hoping to pick up a Katrell bougie Shaffer shaver and hopefully some quality cars Ibushi the stuff is not available this far down under Can you tell me where I can go for this? I don't mind spending a bit if I know it will be quality and will last okay. So for those of you who don't know, kind of what we're talking about here. Qatar Rashi is the you know the name of the shaved bonito flakes bonito flakes, which aren't really bonito, they're yellow skipjack. They're skipjack tuna, but so you know, the, the flakes are the bonito flakes that you use to make Dashi and innumerable other delicious things in Japanese cuisine. So you call that thing? Well, various incarnations, there's different words for it at every step in the process. katsuobushi. So the way it's made is they catch the fish. They cook the crap out of the fish, they get the bones out of the fish, they dry the fish, they smoke the fish, they, they let it rest, they smoke it and let it rest, they smoke it, they spray some mold stuff on the outside for really high, they can sell it just right away then but then that's the low end stuff. And then the higher end stuff, they put a mold on the agent and really, really good stuff. You pick it up and you clink it together. And it sounds like kind of like would like think think think amazing stuff. My wife bought me some from Japan when she went there maybe 12 years ago, and it's the first time I had the actual thing in my hand and not just the flakes. tiny thing was I needed to shave as much as you do. Now, the only place I know you can walk into New York and New York and buy a real it's called I believe it's called a creaky so it'd be called like a castle bougie sorry, not queen. Kazooie Coteaux bougie Kazooie. And so the one that they have is a Korean. You should go to Korean anyway. It's a nice store down in Tribeca. And it's like, you know, candy for it's like an amazing place. You know, you guys have all been there, right? Yeah, yeah. What are your thoughts?

It's awesome. Get you?

Yeah, no, I mean, it's not. What do you say? It's a nice store? For people who don't know, Piper be like, it's a nice store, meaning I How good could it be? It's a nice store is like, it's a nice store. How bad? Can it be?

Sharp in there? But I do do who's by the stream?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, so go to go to Korea. And I don't know how the exchange rate is, I mean, Korean is, you know, it's more expensive than it was, you know, five years ago, because, you know, our exchange rate is horrible. But I don't know what the exchange rate is right now that the price is there, because they bring the stuff in from Japan, are directly tied to whatever our exchange rate with Japan happens to be at that time. But they sell it. And I looked online before I came over here, and it's about $86. Now what it is, now you can also go by the way, they don't sell food, so you're out of luck actually buying that item. And the sad news is I have never seen anywhere in New York, good quality of the solid to purchase of the actual cuts of blue sheathing. Now there are chefs who say they can get it, but I'm not really hooked into the sushi suppliers, right. And none of the people that kind of were, you know, that I worked with when I was learning a lot about cutting techniques, and he could Gmail techniques. Or even when I was doing you know, a lot of things with the Gohan society, none of those people really shaved their own flakes at their restaurants that I know of. And so and then when you ask them for sources, they were very secretive, I guess, because there's limited supply. So they never told me where to go get the good stuff. You can go to sunrise Mart, which is kind of a local Japanese Mar, there's a couple of them in new in New York. And they a couple of years ago, like four or five years ago started carrying the actual solid ones, but they weren't the super highest quality ones. Like we know, like we saw when we were in Tokyo, which were amazing. Alright, second thing is there's extra. Oh, by the way, the shaving blog, they also add at sunrise. So a really crappy little shaver made of plastic and metal to stay away from it's useless if you don't get it. Now, if you go on the internet, and you look at people shaving and by the way, what this shaver looks like is it looks like you took a wooden block plain, flipped it upside down and put it on a box and you shave on top of the box almost like a mandolin or a bend Minar. Right. Only it is really sturdy and solid and beautiful because it's you know one of those Japanese things that of course, they're going to make it sturdy and beautiful and flawless. And it has to shave this thing which is incredibly hard. This wood like piece of dried, smoked, fermented molded fish now. I looked at some people who were, you know, doing the YouTube stuff, YouTube re in English, and all of them were doing horrible, horrible jobs. And by the way, when I use mine, I do a horrible, horrible job. The issues are that the actual moisture content of the Cataloochee is critical to getting the shaving right otherwise you get little grumblings of nastiness or like kind of gummy peels needs to be just right. Also, the technique you use in shaving has to be just right. Also, you know, if you're looking at a touch of Gucci, and you guys all use it, so you know what I'm talking about. If you look at Tesco, Gucci, or if you look at the bonito flakes we'll call them you'll notice that a lot of the ones that you buy have kind of a darker stripe running through it. You guys noticed that? Yeah, so that's the that's the that's the Chi eyeline. That's the the bloodline it's in the fish. And so you can buy two types rolled many but two main types of these bonito flakes other than the quality ratings, and that is you can get them shayari which means there's a bloodline it or chia Nuki meaning there's no bloodline in it. And one thing I've never been able to figure out is whether or not they do some sort of procedure to the actual dried fish and pop out that bloodline or do they just shave it in a way that they're not shaving that part of it when they shave that other stuff and they charge more I have no idea because no one in English has mentioned this stuff. Now the good news is once you once you get a hold of this stuff, you can learn how to do it if you can watch a bunch of stuff. There's an amazing set of videos but they're only in Japanese. I wish someone could translate some of the things and they're on go to YouTube and search on sushi taka FQ S H I T aka they have a three part series and you can see it they're the ones that have dot mov and the title. So even you know people like me who don't understand any sort of Japanese characters at all you can find these and they're worth watching even if you can't speak a lick of Japanese because the visuals in it kind of show how it's done. Most interestingly is no one in English that I can see publishes how to properly adjust this cutter once you get it. You need a wooden or leather mallet and what they do is they He set the blade in and then they whack on it with a mallet to get the adjustment just right. And in the video, they show you exactly how to do it, how to adjust it right, and how to adjust it up or down. If the shavings that are coming out of it aren't proper, so I highly recommend watching that. And they also meant they show in visual pictures thank God that you want to store that you want to store them at 50% humidity and about 20 degrees C or in a fridge that's wrapped in plastic and then in a zippy now another thing is they I noticed some people Wiley told me defraying told me once they some people he'd seen who had them wrapped them in paper towels, I think moist paper towels and nuke them for a second and then in this video I saw them and they had a problem heated over a flame so I don't know if there's a trick there or not maybe someone who speaks Japanese could watch these videos and kind of tell us what's going on but there you have it so I can give you some love on the actual shaver but not on the high quality fish itself. We'll have to find what else can find a good source of that maybe someone right in okay three well in New York, where we're gonna be able to pick up a dual probe thermometer gadget like those on the ChefSteps store. You know the yellow looking things with replaceable probes everyone seems to use for cvwd Thanks for Keep up the good work I'm looking forward to experiencing all the great food that America has to offer including American country ham, something I'd never even heard of before listening to your show I regard is really important. Now on the on the probe. The only place I really go to buy kitchen equipment like that in New York is JB Prince. Now JB Prince, again, that's another place everyone should go you guys have all been to JV prints, right? We have love for JV prints, JV prints, they don't carry a dual probe thermometer. And the other thing about JV prints is you know, like they get a rap from sometimes from people for being expensive. But the truth of the matter is, they only carry kind of high end products. And so you can always get something cheaper Yuck, you're not going to be able to get something at JB Prince. That's the same price as the one on the chef step website. But they do have a single probe thing visiting when you're buying a thermocouple probe. A lot of people on like Amazon, for instance, will will say that they have a hypodermic probe that works for sushi. And whoever wrote that must have never cooked a damn thing and their entire freaking lives. Because they give you a probe it's way too wide and that when you puncture the bag doesn't reseal properly. Piper, you've seen that before right where someone says this is a hypersonic probe. And it's it's more like a hammer.

We used to put a little piece of rubber over the hole.

Yeah, you have to put rubber over the hole anyway, no matter what kind of probe you use, but the ones they like that you had a WD were you know, submillimetre probes they were thin and extremely fragile, by the way, so you never want to use it to check deep fryer oil because it can melt out the thermocouple connections, the actual place where it's bonded together and the thing is ruined. And those things cost well over those costs like 100 bucks or over. Like almost anywhere you go. There are things called hypodermic probes that are only a little bit thinner than then you know, like a standard instant read. And that you know, would cause way too big of a hole they're like well over twice as big as the actual hypodermic probes. So I recommend going to JB prints and looking at the hypodermic probe they have but a secret trick if no one ships the product you want to New Zealand is you can use your New Zealand Amazon account I think to order on us Amazon and have this stuff prime shipped to your hotel. And I've done that when I do events even within the United States. I've had stuff prime shipped to the hotel where I'm going to stay because you know in advance where you're going to be and you can ship anything you want from the US Air like that in hotels will usually hold it which is a good technique, but you should definitely go buy JB prints and you should definitely go buy Korean. And if you want to see a really good bookstore, you should go buy kitchen Arts and Letters. Right anywhere else good. They should think about guys. They don't care. They're too hot. They can't even think straight over there. Okay. Joshua writes in, I have ropey yogurt, the sachet Is there anything more disgusting in your mind and ropey yogurt? No, that's that's a new one. I'm going to start actually primary you have to buy this as a yogurt I'll talk about in a minute called Caspian Sea yogurt. at Sony Mattoon eat pan hyperoptic that is meant to be Ropey and we can get the culture and make it and then just make Natasha look at ropey yogurt all day long. Well, that'd be fun.

I like different textures.

I know you do. That's like the biggie thing. The Biggie thing. Now this goes back to like something you know McGee did a long time ago, when we started doing the McGee cooking class. One of the things he said was very early, he's interested in talking about as well. Bad textures are only bad because we assume they're bad. What if you assume that that texture is good and then accentuated? And so that's when he really started pushing this idea of stretchy ice cream with celeb Don Derma. Right? And you know kind of created a whole thing around celebs becoming popular. He also said well what if you really wanted ice cream to have giant crystals in it? Why does ice cream have to be smoothed? And he you know showed the French ice cream color like pink? pin pin needle ice cream that I have to say I'm with him in theory, but I didn't like the pin needle ice cream very much. You guys remember that one? I really don't remember it or you didn't like it. Don't remember it. Man. It's just like in one ear and out the other on people, or whatever. And so the whole point is, is that if you push a texture to certain way on purpose, it can be nice, even though it's not what you're expecting. So there's this rope, others is yogurt, it's ropey, it's meant to be ropey. And the other interesting thing about it is that it uses a Melafix mesophilic culture, meaning that the culture doesn't low temperatures. You don't need a yogurt maker to do it. You can culture it at room temperatures, and it gets this weird, ropey yogurt, you can buy cultures for it online. But anyway, back to the question that Josh had Joshua had, I've been making yogurt recently and I've had several batches was turned out a bit ropey slash it's not like they taste fine, but the texture is not what I would like. My typical procedure is to take milk with a bit of powdered milk added up to 180 degrees Fahrenheit, feels all the stuff that denarii cool to 110 degrees Fahrenheit and add one tablespoon of starter yogurt per quart and incubate at 110 degrees Fahrenheit for six to eight hours. Any idea what causes this rope like texture? Well, I've never had a habit removed before. But according to the bundle, I wrote the texture while review ways according to the sensory evaluation of dairy products and edited by Stephanie Clark, Michael Costello, and Floyd W. body felt how awesome is that guy's name? Floyd, body filled, and Maryann Drake is very well known. On page 208. It says there are five major causes for ropey yogurt, improper gums, meaning improper thickening devices that you're added, but you're not adding a thickener. So that's not your problem. Microbial contamination which is probably what's going on yogurt cultures containing polysaccharide making bacteria all these things as the same thing in proper setting temperatures and too much sugar. Now too much sugar probably does not what you're doing. All the rest of the other ones basically add up to this. There's some hydrocolloid being formed in your polysaccharide being formed in your yogurt that's causing the ropey like texture, right? And either you added that polysaccharide because you're using a thickener or gum, in which case you probably miss added some pectin or something like that. It's causing a Ropin isn't it? You ever had that pectin? Go ropey in a yogurt application? Piper? No. What about Caribbeans go ropey I never had a Caribbean go ropey.

No Xanthine goes ropey.

Yeah, the Santikos will be pectins when they go bad and certain acidic environments can go ropey if they're not fully set. But you've never had it happen in yogurt.

No, I never encountered in yogurt. Okay.

So all of these things, basically point to the fact that there's a polysaccharide happening. Now the question is, is, is it contamination on like, like a contaminant? Bacteria, or whatever that's floating into your yogurt and causing the rope Enos? Or is it the actual yogurt culture that you're using? That's doing it now, it turns out that yogurt most typically is a combination of a, I can't pronounce it. So like, I'm gonna say it and to be wrong, because I've only ever read it. I've never pronounced it but it's lactobacillus delbrueckii. I think it's pronounced bulgaricus. Right. That's the one thing that does it and then the other. The other one is streptococcus, thermal thermal. Phyllis, these are the two that are used in normal kind of higher temperature yogurts like the one that you're doing. Now, the lack of a silicate, the lactobacillus can, like that strain can be either be a kind of produces extracellular ropey polysaccharides, or one that produces smaller unit polysaccharides that don't form a ropey texture. Surprisingly, you actually want a bit of that rufinus, but you don't want so much of the Ropin. Instead, it becomes ropey so that the trick there is your problem, probably, maybe doing it at a temperature that's favoring the roping is or you're letting it go too long, before you chill it down to fridge temperature to kind of stop that acceleration. And you're favoring the balance of the ropey ones over the other ones. So you could just try switching your starter culture. You could try making sure like covering and make sure you're not contaminated. Or you could try maybe shifting your temperature up a degree or two and then killing it faster when you're done. I don't know if any of those are going to work but take a look into that what you got to think about that. I think anything

you could try switching the milk Source

to You got a problem with milk source.

I mean it could be contamination that is existing in the milk before he starts.

But he has 180 Most of most everything is going to most everything it's going to produce a polysaccharide like that's going to croak out before 180

Just writing about eliminating potential sources of contamination first.

True true to eliminate contamination always. Okay. Now second question. I'm also interested in making a lien bread meaning I guess, I guess by lien bread, meaning only yeast water flour, salt, like a French bull with about 50% of the flour as milled brewers malt, both baseball and specialty kiln malt in order to pair with beers of a similar grain bill, would I need to kill any enzymes in the mall to make this work? Are there any different concerns with working with barley flowers? Any help is much appreciated. Okay, well, so this is interesting, because because there's people out there who cook with nothing but sprouted grains, right. And so presumably, these have a lot of diastatic activity from the enzymes as they're converted when you sprout it. You know, there's companies that produce 100% sprouted things. But then on the other hand, when you read recommendations for, for baking, if you're actually using diastatic malt powder, right, then they advise against not adding too much because then it's going to convert too much of the starch to sugar, and you'll get kind of gummy results in your bread. So I don't know where the balance lies because some people are using 100% sprouted grains. And then some people are cautioning against using more than a small amount of, of, you know, dissect malt powder, I will tell you this from experience. Barley loads in general are dense little suckers. You know, they're dense, it was like 100% barley loaves or some dense, and especially the barley that you're using in brewing hasn't been pearls got the husk still on it. And that's going to be like, like the part of the brand there's going to be like a pop or AMA on your, on your gas cells and your bread. And so like if you're doing whole grain kind of uncurled barley, I'm assuming that you're going to be in the area of some dents. And so you're going to want to soak the hell out of them. Maybe soak them overnight, and then grind them that way instead of instead of or maybe pre grinding them like you would for mashing then let them soak in some water and then grinding them further so that so that the husks have enough time to hydrate properly. So I you know, I I'm kind of at a loss here, I've never done it. But I'm assuming it'll work. And you guys have any thoughts of me Peter Reinhart has a lot on sprouted sprouted wheat flour. But I don't have a lot, you know, the, I don't have a lot on this, what do you guys have,

this is going to increase your yeast activity significantly during the

rising hugely mean that's why you add diastatic malt powder in the first place is to convert in a long fermentation time, you know, situation like sourdough or something, it's gonna be retarded in the fridge, you want to have, you know, a continuous supply of yeast for sugar for the yeast to feed on while they're doing their stuff. And so adding the you know, adding the diastatic malt will continuously break down like some of the starch as a food for the yeast, you just don't want to overdo it. But then on the other hand, you have people baking breads, 100% with this stuff, so I'm gonna need some help from from some some people out there, I don't know whether it's just a difference because there's so much more higher enzymatic activity and diastatic malt powder versus like your average sprouted grain. But you know, if you want the flavor, what I would do is I would kill off a section of this stuff and then have the like a section of your of your, you know, heat it kill off a section of the enzymatic activity and then grind up some and leave it with the enzymatic activity. You know, naturally flour. When you have it, some of the stuff was sprouted because it's very rare for you to have, you know, completely pure flour when they're measuring the strength of flour, they use something called the falling number, where they take up make a warm slurry of flour and they drop a rod through it determine how fast it goes down. And what that's a measure of is how much residual enzymatic activity there is in the flour. And therefore how much of the Scotch is broken down by the amylase is working on the flowers as they're there. But it's not a number that most of us have in it. I wish I had more information on this. But go take a look at go take a look at anything that Peter Reinhart has written he's written a lot of excellent books on bread and he's become over the past couple of years. Kind of a proponent of using sprouted grain flowers so he might have more information. And there's good section on the technical aspects of flour on bread bakers book of techniques and recipes by Jeffrey hammelmann. And a lot of that one's available in Amazon search inside so you can go to that. Lastly, Adam Milgram writes in on food safety Hey Natasha, David the team I was wondering if you can help me work out if there's a way to tell definitively if something lurking in the back of my fridge is okay to eat, or to do something to make it safe to reason examples. I had some chicken stuck in there for two plus weeks and it looked and smelled fine. But the prevailing wisdom on the internet is that it only lasts for three to five days three to five days seems kind of short, but two weeks plus man Okay. The other was stewed fruit again smells fine and no signs of mold or anything but I have no idea how long it's been hanging around maybe a month. It is a process you can do to render anything safe if you bring it to x temperature for y minutes. So all you need to worry about is taste or other other nasties that I need to worry about. Finally, is there any way to test things that you can't easily heat eg mayo, cheese, hummus, etc. FYI, my wife is pregnant. So food safety is becoming an increasingly important issue recently. Thank you for your help. And your awesome podcast, Adam. Now listen, Adam, when your wife is pregnant, don't fool around. Forget the stewed fruit. Just pitch all that crap. Go crazy go ape in your kitchen. You don't I mean, it's like, here's the thing. Like most likely nothing is going to ever happen to you, however, like Now's not the time where you want an incautious food mistake that could cause a problem when your wife is pregnant. You guys backing me up on