Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

Today's program has been brought to you by underground meats an American producer of handcrafted salami and cured meats in Madison, Wisconsin. For more information visit shop dot underground food collective.org Or stop by their butcher shop in Madison, Wisconsin. You are listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn. If you'd like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host and cookie she's coming to you live from Ubers pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to 1245 I'm joined today by Anastasia to hammer Lopez with Jack Joe and Eddie in the engineering booth How you guys doing?

Hey you you're pretty revved up today huh?

Well it's so freaking hot out that like I don't know my body now that it's cool in the air conditioning here as all this extra energy it was using to cool itself. I don't know. I don't know. I made it up. Interesting code. Your question is 270-497-2128 That's 718-497-2128 we hope to be joined soon correct Natasha with one of our favorite all time people. Harold McGee, great master blaster of science as it relates to making things delicious. He is actually enroute now from his Hotel in Manhattan, to the heritage Radio Network Studios here in Brooklyn. So we'll see how long that takes it's actually a really crappy time to travel from Manhattan because they're always working on the freakin bridge. Everyone takes the bridge and they're always working on it. You guys noticed that? He's taking a subway subway? What's that? The traffic sucks from here to from Manhattan to here around noon time. Sucks. I think he's making a joke because he never goes Oh, Oh, thanks. I don't understand people who don't go to Manhattan you know what I mean? Like you know we're traveling out here in the in greater greater Brooklyn. So anyway, so should we hit some questions before he shows up? Anything cool happening and stuff? No, nothing really hit some questions. All right.

I have I have one little message I was at Bonnaroo with heritage radio and Robertas and that was all crazy and everything and we got a little message from a friend that I'm gonna play.

Yeah, with Jeremiah Bullfrog here at Bonnaroo hanging out with heritage radio. Y'all know the deal. I love myself

and Jeremiah bullfrog. He's the He's the king of the Miami food trucks if I'm not mistaken Castro pod Castro pod. He's a good man. Good man. I met him a number of years ago back when I used to teach at the French Culinary Institute back when it was called the French Culinary Institute before became the International Culinary Center right and stuff, right? Yep. Okay, have first of all a shout out to Jack and some information about the museum from Kate. Hello, everyone. I have two questions, if you don't mind, but first I do apologize because I'm still catching up on the backlog of cooking issues. So I apologize if you've covered these topics already. Please do not feel obliged to listen to our back catalogue. Right so As I realized, oh, so she says, I realized this website for Mofaz that's the Museum of food and drink is updating and looking good. Check the website once in a while and hope that more has developed it would be so excited if it happened as I live in Brooklyn, love cooking, and museums, I do work in the nonprofit sector. So I understand that it takes a tremendous amount of work to get them going. I'm down to help in any way possible. I sent an email to them with an offer to volunteer if needed, whatever it takes to get those doors open. And I enjoyed the southern food and beverage museum so much but it was in New Orleans and was when I was in New Orleans. It's about time New York has a spot of their own. I'm sure working alongside the New York Historical side, it can be fun to as they recently had a beer exhibit. Well, good news. Two good news is one Kate, we're going to have a Kickstarter launching Wednesday was Saturday, Saturday Kickstarter for the museum of food and drinks. So there's going to be a lot happening and a lot to look at and a lot to look for. So please, everyone, look out we're gonna put it on Twitter blast but the Museum of food and drink Kickstarter on the puffing gun is going to be up within a week. I'm told by Natasha, she knows all these sorts of things. And the second piece of good news I have for you is that Errol McGee is now in the studio. It's just the first time you've been on the show live.

By phone by phone in person is Verizon first time.

So listen, Trump's occurs, this is your chance to call in personal questions to Harold McGee at 718-497-2128. That's 71849721 to eight and congratulations to all your recent graduates out there. Okay. And, and Jack, you might be interested in this before before we start up. Kate also said I just listened to the cooking issues episode that was recorded right after Valentine's Day, and I can't help myself. But let Jack know that I would have inquired about a potential Valentine's date. He sounds sweet, funny and interesting. I'm flattered. Yeah.

I'm also taken down. Oh, man,

Kate, you're too late. Too late. Well, you never know jack. This might mean I don't do I know your new girlfriend? No, you don't. So it's all I can say this. You should maybe it'll be over. Maybe there's maybe more West? I don't know. I don't know. I'm getting that I'm getting the I can't believe he's saying this shaking head look from Natasha Harrell how're you doing?

I'm doing well, except for having taken the red eye and, and had problems with a hotel. But otherwise, what kind of problems went to one place and the reservation went to the second place and the reservation. Things are up in the air.

And by the way, he is coming here directly off of the red eyes. So this is probably the only chance that you have. I've never like he's never been tripped up. And he's never gotten angry at anyone. So here's your here's your chance to maybe try either, because you have with us and tired Harold McGee. But thanks so much. Thanks so much for coming on the show. So I have some questions. Here's one that you might want to weigh in. Very When Casey writes in, please, please address factors that contribute to food aroma. Now, that's very broad. So I'm not going to ask you to do that. Because, you know, that's like a topic, a whole book that you're probably working on now. But eg How can the aroma of almond chicken soup be enhanced and fill the room? And you've done some work with this in classes with just simply with fans, right?

Yeah. Well, a bunch of different ways. That certainly one of them heating the soup up so that it's giving off as much vapor as possible. And it turns out that if you have room to do it, if the soup could use a little salt, salt will actually help drive aroma out of a food and into the air. Because it makes the food more polar, more electrically charged. And the Romans don't like that. So they they get out into there where they're more comfortable.

Now, is that effect reach a certain saturation point? Or can you take a small portion of the soup, put it in a wide vessel? Presumably you want the soup in a very wide vessel? So you have maximum surface area? So mean Could you could you punch that up and take a bit of it, put it in a super wide vessel and just salt the bejesus out of it.

I've never tried that experiment worth trying.

Yeah, I mean, if you have some extra soup, yeah. Lying about no sacrifice a couple of ladles, fill in a frying pan with some salt and see whether or not you can really amp up the

well in a frying pan. I mean, why not fry it? I mean, put, put the heat on and boil it that'll get it into the area even faster than just kind of letting it evaporate. I guess that's

true. I hadn't thought about that. But you might get bonding and stuff with the oil, right? No, no, I guess maybe I don't know.

Well, I don't mean fry, fry. Just boil. Well, yeah,

boil boil hard. Use a fan maximize surface area, right. It's all about volatility with that stuff. Yeah. And we're almost fairly simple. I mean, it's very, very complicated and how its integrated, but fairly simple in that it's crap that goes up into the air.

Yep, that's right. That's right. And into your nose. Yeah. And it'd be in the air first,

right? And you know, if you want to cheat, I mean, people have done things like put things in vaporizers and actually volatilized them all. Are you could use ultrasonic humidifiers actually don't boil things, they create tiny kind of miss droplets that can carry heavier molecules with them. So you could use an ultrasonic humidifier. But on chicken almond soup, I think that's going to be kind of a nightmare. So be water thin for that to work. Another thing you can do not fill a room, but the Japanese are very fine when they have their soups of covering their soups with a bowl on the way to the table with an inverted like a smaller bowl, and it has the effect of concentrating the headspace directly above the soup. So then the person grabs the lid lifts it and the soup walks up into their nose and they get the full aroma of it. And that's how the Japanese get away with having relatively under flavored bras. But the little, you know, little little dig at the Japanese broth here. But the but right or no? Yeah, yeah.

And you don't get if you can smell it coming than your nose is already beginning to get adapted to it. Right? It's it knows what's coming. It's gonna say okay, yeah, that's that's chicken almond soup. But if you present it with no fanfare, you just open it up. And there it is. powerfully. It's a much more intense experience

and excellent point that I hadn't thought of. And the reason why we should have Harold McGee here all the time, all the time. Yeah, in fact, you know, it's interesting point. Modern cooking, when I say modern, modern American home cooking is all about kind of integrating the kitchen with with the dining experience. And part of that is because people who wouldn't ordinarily 80 or 100 years ago, be cooking, you know, people who are actually kind of running the house now take pride in what they're cooking. So they want to be integrated in with their guests and have it and so it's become part of this, you know, aroma of the kitchen is considered a positive thing. Whereas, you know, 100 years ago, it'd be you'd be horrified to smell what's going on in the kitchen in your house. The horror of horrific a sign of you know, poverty and disgust you know what I mean? And although I've definitely fall in the more modern camp, it is interesting to the idea that maybe you could have in certain circumstances a much more powerful presentation if they didn't smell it until the moment they were going to go.

Yeah, rather. Yeah. Yeah. So so maybe you want one kind of waft de welcoming aroma but that should be not something that you're actually going to serve at the dinner

best of both worlds. Okay. Joe writes in by the way, Joel if you're listening this is Joel of the of the heavy the you know, metal version of cooking issues writes in with a rib problem your idol Harold McGee is here do you ever hear his song he sang to you know, we'll play for you later. But you know, I'm sure Jack has it here in the archives, Joel here cooking issues, personal performance artists still wicked excited to hear my song being used and pumping up the heritage radio airwaves and still waiting to hear more about this series all attachment progress. The deal with that is we're just trying to figure out like my partners are a little worried about safety and people burning themselves is really the main issue. So we're that's what we're dealing with. Right? So. Yeah. Okay. I would be more than happy to be a tester and we'd like to report back my findings on my question regarding low temperature short ribs boneless, but first here the specifics. 40 pounds of ribs at 57 degrees Celsius, which is roughly 135 Fahrenheit for you Fahrenheit heads out there. I cooked him for 60 hours, and the bad contents were seared unsalted meat reduced red wine, raw miracle herbs reduced chicken stock, cold in the walk in for a few days, all items back at room temperature and vacuum sealed and placed in two separate pre heated baths and covered for 60 hours and left to run for the weekend. unintended results. One bath bags came out great, no sign of bacterial growth or all smell I ate about six ounces and I'm feeling fine as you should because it's safe. I'm also receiving and bringing them up to temp of the good portion of the meat. All the bags in the second bath were puffed to near explosion, I opened one bag and it smelled like death and Jim socks, you could combo pretty close to what my grease trap smells like besides a few $100 worth of meat I threw away the only thing I can take away from this is to turn into a learning experience for myself and my team. So I need help finding out what happened. I know it's hard to figure out if both baths were at a constant temperature since I've left them unattended. But both bags were plugged into the same outlet and running when I returned, although that's no sign of anything because they can turn off and they can turn back on again like a plug can get and kick. By the way in the future never plugged two circulators into the same outlet. It's possible that they'll continue running. And then it's also quite possible that you'll blow a circuit like very possible that you blow a circuit because even a 20 amp circuit like I mean they're not running for the same they're not running full bore all the time but you have more than I've on more than three occasions seen people do that and have circuits blow even even on a 20 You just never know so don't do it. But both bags were plugged into the same outlet and running on our turret here's my thinking chicken stock is possibly too much age on it being the culprit do not think that was the culprit. I kept my fat vac bags very close to my baking area in my kitchen where I use natural starters this may have caused a reaction from reason for microbes to find their way into the bag. I do not think so. One circulator may be off calibration This is possible you should calibrate your search circulators with ice waters, the very first batch of the new style circulators had an issue where it was very easy to set the temperature offset incorrectly and have problems. So it could be a possibility, but it's fairly unlikely because I think I know what happened. Red wine causing some pickling or fermentation, not the culprit. cross contamination, also not the culprit. I've heard that blanching the bags at a much higher temperature is a good safety step. I'll try that next time helped me Help me please love Joel, you have a couple of problems. One, you put raw mirepoix in the bad rom your PA has a lot of air in it. And so unless you suck for a super long amount of time, there's probably a lot of residual air left in the mirror plot. As you started cooking, it started heating the air migrated out of the mirror while creating an air gap gap in your bag. You probably had a further complication that the bags were very tightly packed together, that's a lot of meat to be putting into two circulators at the same time, right. So if they're packed tightly together, and then you get any air you have two major insulating effects in your bag. As the air puffs up, you're also taking up more space, and it's more difficult for the water to get into the center of the bags. As that happens, if your bags don't get up to bacteria killing temperature within a couple of hours, you're gonna get lactic acid bacteria growing in the bag, the lactic acid bacteria is going to create some awful disgusting funky smells and cause the bag to blow and puff right. And then subsequent cooking will actually probably kill those bacteria over a long period of time because they probably won't survive at those high temperatures. However, it's too late. The meats already ruined and the bags already puffed. So you have a couple of things you can do you the one good way to deal with over cramped bags is to like you say put them into simmering water for a minute or two to kill all the bacteria on the outside and start to cooking looks like we have a caller we have Patrick Patrick is going crazy with the I got the call. Patrick come on in here you crazy crazy. Harold McGee. Here's Patrick, our founder Hey.

I feel like I feel dull with it in this room. Wow. Three you guys

have a seat. Alright, hello. So there's another Mike Patrick voice over here. Did I interrupt the show poquito Okay, so here we go. So you can dip them in very hot water like 85 C simmering water to kill the bacteria on the outside you can start the cooking in a combi oven and then throw them into finish and just don't overcrowd them in general if you cook the mirror plot the the air cells will get ruptured as the vegetables shrink down you also get less puffing from the air and you can suck a heart vacuum don't be afraid by the way to salt your ribs before you put them in the bag because they're being cooked for a long time and you don't want a fresh steak steak texture on them anyhow and also over reduce your stock right? Yeah. All right. You want to take a quick break so we can come back with maximum Harold McGee. Quick break

and today's break song is the hustle by Ellen Wilkinson, you are listening to cooking issues on heritage Radio network.org.

Underground meats is an American producer of handcrafted salami and cured meats in Madison, Wisconsin. They use small farms from Southwest Wisconsin to source their meat. The animals are raised on pasture for their entire lives by farmers who care about animal welfare, while underground meats uses European traditions. They also use ingredients from the Upper Midwest to try to create new types of Salamis experimenting with both ingredients and techniques. The Salamis are made using heritage breeds mostly red wattles, Tam words birchers, and mule foods. Try their award winning short pork shoulder and goats. To learn more and purchase products visit shop underground food collective.org Or stop by their butcher shop in Madison, Wisconsin.

And we're back with cooking. She's calling a question Sue sent 184972128 That's 718-497-2128 So Carol and I were talking about one of your questions and so we might as well talk about it on the air. Paul writes in on honey and fruit Hey Cookie issues crew just sent me a link about using honey water to stop fruit from browning. I thought it was an interesting alternative to as ascorbic acid which is vitamin C different from citric acid. Remember that people don't always make that mistake. You notice that Harold? No, really, you don't make that mistake. But people when I'm teaching people, they're always like, I bought that I bought the citric acid and it didn't work. I'm like, No, it's vitamin C, it's ascorbic acid. Citric acid will prevent browning somewhat by lowering the pH but not nearly as much as ascorbic acid, which is an actual antioxidant. So the video in question is by Rebecca Marsters on America's Test Kitchen, and it's available even if you don't pay, so you can go look at it. And what she does is she soaks slices of Apple in wow, I don't know what she uses, because I don't remember but the paper relevant papers say about a 10% Honey solution. So Harold, you want to talk about this for a minute?

Sure. This came as news to both of us that honey would do this. But a couple of things. One of the reasons I think we haven't heard more about honey is that the experiment was suggested that there were peptides pieces of proteins that were responsible for this and the people who wrote the paper in 1990, saying that honey would inhibit Browning said they were going to follow up on that and find out which peptides were responsible. And it's been radio silence from them ever since. So it never got followed up on. And then there was a paper in 2000 that did follow up on the honey, but said that they got really variable results depending on which honey they use, some were good, some were not so good. So I think my guess is if you actually did a ascorbic acid, honey, side by side, probably ascorbic acid would be more reliable.

Right? Well, I forget which one it was I read another paper on the various different ascorbic acids also interesting because it can actually reverse some of the some of the Browning after it's already occurred. But they said also some of the honeys I mean, it's really conflicting information. Just to be clear, though, the paper from 1990 specifies clover, honey, right? So like, do you think clover honey is more likely to work than other types of honey or no? Yeah, I

don't know. Hard to say. Good thing for somebody to follow up on.

Yeah. Oh, and by the way, honey is and I didn't really I mean, I've always you know, I kind of I don't know whether I ascribe to you ascribe to this whole local allergen honey dealio or No, I don't know about that one where if if you show up in a place and you're gonna have seasonal allergies in that place, you just pound some honey from that place and they wiped out your seasonal allergies.

I wish I'd known that two weeks ago.

I don't know whether it's true or not. But this is an often held belief. I have no idea about the efficacy of said thing but honey is a miracle. honey syrup is an incredible foam forming agent and cocktails. Because the extra proteins so we use that in conjunction with our some of our milk washed drinks at the at the rest at the bar to get really dense heads of foam. That was Piper's called Piper came up with that.

Are there any concentrated Feeding Operations for bees were like these get over used or don't have the room to do what they need to do.

Well, I mean, I don't think that the bees aren't I mean, I wouldn't I wouldn't go crying about you know, the overcrowding on bees, they kind of that's how they groove like they on overcrowding and like keeping their temperature up in the winter by being close to each other and buzzing and also how they kill how they kill giant, the giant hornets, you know, by glomming on to them and shaking so hard that they heat them up and kill them. So bees don't have the same problems with overcrowding that we do although they will swarm out of their colony if they're too crowded they'll swarm but yes so if you talk to natural honey producers as I have done I mean that lady who chewed our jaroff stars anyway nationally producer like anyway my point is is that like the big thing that they hate is it is feeding them sugar water to tide them over on the winter that's what the honey producers are like yeah, I don't feed my bees any sugar water ruins the honey anyway, but so yeah, I mean and then the other problems with bees obviously I mean the other problem with bees if you if like when they're store too close together I don't I'm not up I haven't been up on the colony collapse papers in for about probably five years or something like that. But now they used to think that overcrowding and to close the proximity of commercial highest was part of the spread of Colony Collapse you know anything about modern

actually you're mentioning the sugar water is interesting because the latest I've heard is that you know it's probably lots of different things these mites and a virus and crowding and pesticides and all that kind of thing but one of them is the fact that it's become more and more common to feed bees on either sugar water or high fructose corn syrup. And and what they found is that honey actually has lots of stuff in it that's good for bee health. And if you deprive them of that and just give them sugar water or high fructose corn syrup, they're going to get sick. So the the idea is give them enough honey to feed themselves and maybe things will get better and no allergies for the bees.

Nothing nothing no problems with that. Hey, did you know I just read this but I don't know if it's true. Certain Linden flowers are irresistible but to bees but toxic to them. No, I gotta research that might be crap. But I read it somewhere. But it could be crap because many things that I read are. Here's one that you might want to chime in on I have a good recommendation for where to go look at it but Joe Blow which is like one of the best while you while there, Joe Blow 67 But it's a good it's a good what's it called? It's tweet, Tweeter tweeter name. Love the podcast Quickie, why does OJ taste so horrible? After I brush my teeth? Well, the go to www dot bite size with a Y as in small like as in bits and bytes. Bite Size science.com, the American Chemical Society of which Harold is a member and regular speaker for their things. They have a web series of short videos on science that people might find interesting, they did one on this. And they say that it's the sodium lauryl sulfate in toothpaste, that that a suppresses sweetness, and B washes off the phospholipid. So it suppresses sweetness and enhances your ability to taste bitter. You ever read anything on that? No, no. Yeah, interesting. I did read a paper by commercial commercial tasting thing where people who, you know, we're apt to brush our teeth in the morning because that's what we do. And they show up to work in the need to taste and they actually cancel the effect of the toothpaste and get them ready for tasting by pounding several glasses of OJ. So there are some studies on that. But I recommend you, Joe Blow to bite size science.com Interesting little website. All right.

Can I interrupt him with a question? Sure. Um, I'm always hypersensitive about how I eat, you know, because I eat out a lot from my work. And my wife's in the food world too. So I was wondering about the effects of that on my health. And I read Michael Pollan's peace, germs. And I was wondering, I mean, should people who are worried about such things like sending their feces to that place in Colorado? And have them do studies on it? And is it as important as DNA and all of that your

is your poop as important as your DNA, say, the microbiota

that lives in your stomach, you know, and that there's this new budding science and I was just so interested that you like, and that microbiota to DNA in terms of importance for its effects on human health? And I was wondering, is that true? I mean, is was that a real seminal piece that

you're gonna go ahead and toss this one to Harold?

No, it's a crazy question.

No, because, in fact, you read more and more about that in in scientific journals these days as well. And that's, I think, where Michael Pollan got the the lead for this, my my feeling is that we're just beginning to understand how important the gut microbes are, and what to make of them. And at the moment, what we kind of know is that people in different states of Health have very different communities down there. But whether it's possible to change them quickly, or over time by changes in diet, or whether changing them more drastically by taking little pills with lots and lots of them, is a good idea. We have no clue. I think we're, we're still figuring that out.

And also to say that it's as important as data and put it this way, you can for all intents and purposes, wipe out a good chunk of your gut microflora by intensive antibiotic regimes, or like super sickness, plus antibiotic regimes. I mean, I've gotten like this it's not microflora. But you know, I had a situation once where I was so cleaned out that I was lactose intolerant for like a week and a half because I had no enzymes left in my body. But fact matter is you can reestablish those colonies, if I were to supply enough radiation to you to destroy your DNA, very difficult to reconstitute. Very, very, very difficult to reconstitute. Right?

Yeah. So let's leave DNA at the top of the heap, but maybe microbes are right up there, just just underneath.

I mean, there are plenty of things that are completely necessary but not as critical from an everyday standpoint, right. You know, we've got a caller Dave water, it's right up there with DNA. Hey, caller you're on the air.

Hey, pal, this Johnny Carson from Memphis, Tennessee. How you doing? All right, how you doing? Doing good. I was looking for some advice on the addition of mascarpone to cheesecake. I was working with three pounds of cream cheese, five pound mascarpone and anywhere from two to three eggs per pound of cheese. And sometimes when I cut through it, it appears broken. Any advice on you know maybe maltodextrin corn starch flour addition and Sue they time and Tim?

Yeah, well, I've never been mean like when you say su V. Do you mean like in a in a CIF app or something like that? I've never put a cheesecake in a bag although I'm sure you could. No reason why

I yeah, just bag it and circulate it for a few hours,

you're doing it in the tubes, right? You're doing the tubes.

Now as well, I was just doing it in three or four small bags and after, like two and a half hours, pull it out, and I put them to the molds, molds.

Well, I would imagine mascarpone has a higher water content and the water in it is less bound than it would be in cream cheese when you think So Harold? Yeah, yeah. And so I would guess that it would be a lot looser under all conditions. I mean, can you hang mascarpone notes firmed up a little bit?

You probably could. What I don't know is you know how much you'd be left with? You know, would that be an economical thing to do? If it if it only leaks?

Out? That's what I was thinking tap yet?

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't use mean, if you're gonna go to maltodextrin. I mean, maltodextrin doesn't supply a lot of thickening power, you might want to go to an actual starch, you know what I mean? Something that's has a little more thickening power to it. And a multi multi dextran is more of a bulking agent. So that when you dry something back out again, you're going to have more bulk. I mean, I think that the addition of a starch to it to thicken it up, maybe I mean, you can up your egg quantity a little bit, which is I think what they do in in the Italian cheese cakes that are ricotta based right now they have the egg content and those things I think that's right, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's been a long time.

Yep. You know, Russia on what I do for that.

I don't I don't but I mean, like the classic Italian style cheese cakes are using a much looser cheese without all the you know, they're using ricotta based typically things which are going to be they have a grainy or texture. I happen to love them. I happen to love those. Yeah, the styles of cheesecakes, but I don't make them myself, but they're typically much Granier. And I would imagine they're bound with a higher egg proportion. I mean, they taste like they're bound with a higher proportion. So I would up your eggs, I would move to perhaps a starch one that has a good thickening power, maybe one that doesn't require a complete boil to activate some maybe something like potato that has a lot of swelling, but then he's not going to hold as much eventually it might break. I don't know, I'd have to think about the starch that you're going to use. But I would I wouldn't definitely add a starch to it. What do you think?

Oh, yeah, no, I agree. I also think that it's the kind of thing where you're just not going to know for sure without trying it.

Yeah, I've done a few test runs and corn starch, and AP flour, just looking for any other start suggestions as well.

You could use to get around the problem of the temperature if you're doing it Suvi because you might not be functionalizing the starch you might want to use a pre agglomerated I mean, agglomerated pre cooked starch, like, not Ultra text, but Ultra spurs. Yeah, wonder wonder could work gets pre cooked, but like ultra spurs or something like that. Because Wondra is still gonna have all of the lights gonna have a more of a flowery note to it, because it's flour, whereas the ultra spurs is going to be more neutral. And you can pay I think you can pick up Ultra spurs from the guys at monitors. pantry.com. Yeah, give it a shot, let us know what happens.

What's the percentage of ultra sparse?

Jeez, I don't know, I think it's a lot depends on how much water you need to bind, right? Because it's the it's the it's it's the percentage of ultra spurs compared to the free water that's available in the mascarpone. But I mean, I wouldn't guess that you probably need to add more than a percent or two, right? I mean, because, because if it's almost set, right, then you don't need to add that much. And the A lot depends on how much you need to bind up. You could also just cheat, you could just cheat and set the stuff as a gel means cheat, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, you know, like use, like, I don't know, like, make a fluid gel, or any sort of gel, have it set up. You know, if you could do you could do a, you could do like an iota carrageenan or a kappa that will melt in the in the thing, you could pipe it while it's hot. It'll set into a gel and you're done. Very light gel. You know what I mean? Especially because there's dairy in there, you could use a very small percentage of Carageenan and have it set up pretty nicely.

So you wouldn't use Caribbean and nanoporous virus right?

I probably try one or the other and see how they work and see what the texture differences but my try that.

Okay, I appreciate you know, right good luck. Y'all have a good day.

How are you doing too? All right. We have a question in from a Brian regarding Mystara. You like Mystara? You're the Italian fruit bass. Yeah, me too. I haven't had it in a long long time. Because no one else my family. Jen likes my wife but my kids are not big on you like that stuff does.

I mean the cherries in the pears in that kind of gelatinous no man's land just like floating around?

Yeah, yeah. And we like to call that like a syrup or a jelly? Yeah, yeah, they make one from watermelon rinds that I really like. But anyway, Brian writes to

be in is it all the you don't need all the gel, you just eat the fruit. And

I put this stuff on bread with cheese I just eat the whole the whole damn thing you Harold Yeah, that's condiment yeah yeah there you go Hello cookie issues team Hope you guys and gals are staying cool we are not it is a hot as hell not in the studio but it's nasty out okay after some research I was discovered that true mostarda does not contain mustard powder or mustard seed but mustard essential oil which they call did not pay in Italy snobby how you pronounce it Thank you Patrick with the with the Italian. Apparently this is such strong stuff that only pharmacist in Italy sell it or a Shola from studio kitchen dot blah blah studio kitchen blog does use a roadmap to extract it from mustard oil. Do you have a source for this product or a substitute? What does Cesare or mark say about this? I didn't have a chance to speak to them. Did you speak to mark about this? Thanks. Good job

okay, thanks again for your awesomeness Brian. Okay, so mustard essential oil is available on the internet on eBay from knee vol companies Knievel NIV al pure essential mustard oil. It's available on eBay and also from essential depot.com And Florida but that stuff's expensive. Let me just say that there's two things if you go to like an Indian rest, Indian Mart, like oh, you know, like Colossians here in the city or dual specialty shop and city anyone? You can buy stuff called mustard oil that's pressed press mustard oil and that stuff. It can be pungent or cannot be pungent. It's all labeled as not for human consumption because of you know, it contains what is it? Something's I have it here on the thing somewhere? Air is really sick acid. Yeah, fatty acid that causes problems in mice, but apparently not in people. But we haven't gotten around to it.

Right? Yeah. I mean, cultures have been using it for 1000s of years internally, and hasn't seemed to be a problem, but we're worried about it. Yeah, can't can't have it.

Yeah. But here's the bad news, mustard oil in it because I've purchased it. Mustard Oil in Indian stores, or I guess Korean I guess I use it in Korea as well. Bangladesh a bunch of other places. It's just not that strong. It's just not I mean, it's got some sort of mustard thing to it. But I once had a pure vial of the mustard essential oil that was given to me by a Japanese Gent. And that stuff is ridiculous. Like two drops in like in like your mashed potatoes, and they're like completely mustered it up. You know what I mean? It's like, it's like, it stuff's crazy. Because it's it's distilled, but not distilled. Like Rotovac style with a bunch of water leftover like distilled the oil floats up to the top, you take the supernait and on the top of the stuff and that's your mustard essential oil, and it's almost it's some it's some like, I don't know, isothiocyanate some sort of Allium. Don't be a sulfur derived thing of a jig. So it distills quite well, probably the same way that horseradish does which distills like a demon. But yeah, I would recommend it this stuff is really expensive, but it goes a long way. Buy it, I would buy it. I'm thinking now buying it. I don't know whether this one's any good. Have you ever bought it, Harold? No, I haven't. Yeah, I mean, people swear on Amazon. The best you're gonna get that look for a while. Is mustard oil, like pressed mustard oil, not mustard essential oil. Right? It's not the same. You'd have to like dump a whole boatload of that into your Mystara to what's your favorite kind of mostarda? You'd like them all.

I think actually the pair, you know, the the grid goes really nicely with the with the heat.

I think nice with it. With a nice pecorino. Yeah,

doesn't mark say the Golden's is the best mustard ever made

today? Really? For real? Do you just make that up?

No, it's in my book. He and Marian Cunningham, who was James beards assistant said that Hellman's is the best male why would you ever make a male nothing could ever taste better than almonds. It's the thing that was the essay was don't make ketchup. Unless it's really better than Heinz if it's not better than Heinz just also serve Heinz.

Well. Anyone who's listened to the backlog here knows that Natasha doesn't care about different brands of ketchup which is one of the my main gripes with her is that she doesn't see that there is possibly a difference between different brands of ketchup. And I haven't tried the new fancy stuff yet from Portland. The fancy ketchup bottle. However, Heinz it makes a delicious ketchup. Let's just be clear on that. That in it. What's your opinion? Heinz ketchup?

It's delicious. But there's somebody in San Francisco makes a nice one to June Taylor.

Yeah, June June makes a nice catch. Yeah, yeah,

it's different. You wouldn't mistake it for Heinz, but it's delicious.

Is it ketchup in like the 1820 cents of mustard? Maybe not mustard, mushroom based ketchup? No, no, it's tomato

tomato base, but with with more of the spices showing?

Yeah, you don't have to get myself in trouble for it because I always busness Dasha for stuff that she doesn't like you know what I actually it's not that I don't like it but I'm not a huge fan of or I don't care about it. Here's something I don't care about. I don't care that much about the nuances of different barbecue sauces. They don't. I mean, I see that there are differences, but to me, they're all fundamentally ketchup, molasses and like vinegar and sugar and stuff, right. Am I wrong about this?

No, I might agree with you. Yeah.

I care more about the base ketchup. In the barbecue sauce. Yeah. Although Paul Pruett home has an excellent recipe from the mid 1980s that uses a lot of ground up nuts in a barbecue sauce. It is pretty good. ground up nuts. Yeah, really good, actually. Yeah, pretty good. kind of not. I don't remember because my mom used to make it all the time. Back in the day. I'm gonna say it was cons I guess. Probably. Yeah. Although he probably subbed out for northerners when he was right. This is back when Paul Pruett home had had just recently opened K Paul's in Louisiana and he was still famous for sticking really red hot peppers into into liquor and calling them Cajun martinis and back before everyone had, you know, black in this, that and everything. He came out with a cookbook early on that I think was pretty influential. And my mom used to cook that all the time. So I have to admit, but you know, whatever. Uh, speaking of old school, Christopher Mills writes in because I guess because of Sears all tourists I'm working on and wants to know, if we've watched the old Julia Child episode where she goes on David Letterman, and they don't have equipment that works. And so she has to she was going to make a hamburger and melt the cheese with a torch, which is here's all is great, by the way, instead has to make beef tar tar and David Letterman is being vicious to her the whole time. Have you seen this? No. But