Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

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Hello and welcome to cooking issues as Dave on your host cookies coming to you live on heritage radio network in the back of Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn. How're you guys doing? Calling your question to send 184972128? That's 71849721 to a joined in studio, as usual with Natasha the hammer. How're you doing? Good. Yeah. All right. Jack and Joe in the engineering booth plus a host of new people that are coming on board we have Eddie Right. Correct. Yeah, you're going to be another associate producer over here. The hardware now

yesterday sociopath producer Yes.

Yeah, we're coming up with a new a new thing. The sociopath producer stay tuned for that. And Dedric in the engineering booth. Correct. What's up? Yes. All right. How you doing? Thanks, guys. So we got a full studio today, which I like. And so what happened this week? I just got back from my 20th year reunion at at the Yale College over there. And you know what says but the people I was expecting like a bunch of really terrible looking people like I expected like just like a real like poop fest of like awful looking folk, like you know, totally decrepid bloated out nasty, like droopy like just all bad. Yeah. You know what? They looked great. Really? Yeah, they look great. They like your talk. I gave a talk called a turbo talk which is Like a variant of this kind of like 20 slides 20 seconds which I can't pronounce like Pecha Kucha could Petric could pet, you know, something like that? Yeah, well, I think I mean, I did my normal strategy, which was fit a 30 minute talk into six minutes. So I just spoke as fast as I could, and I didn't have any water. I went completely dry. My wife was in the audience, Jen, she said that I was turning red in the face. And that, you know, you could see that like, little bit of dry mouth spittle forming on the edges of my lips, as I was, like, you know, belting out, you know, 8 billion words a minute, what was what was going on, but I think it went, Alright, that was fine. But anyway, the interesting fact to me is the fact that everyone looked really good. And it just kind of drove home to me, one of the issues I think we're going to be looking to the museum and need to do my own research on is that the, the problem with nutrition in this country is, is kind of exacerbated, I think, by the fact that the people who are making the rules, in general are people that aren't living the problems. So you have like a group of extremely educated, rather probably well to do fairly liberal Ivy League types. These are like the policymakers have for this sort of thing. And they all look great because they have the time, energy and knowledge to spend on this problem. And then you have the, the rest of the people that are getting legislated at and preached at by this group of people who are the ones having the real problem. So I really think, you know, we're going to be spending a lot of time kind of delving into the stats, and kind of breaking this problem down more, more thoroughly, but it's really amazing. I know it's anecdotal, one college reunion, but really kind of Stark slap in the face in a good way, in some sense, because I was, you know, surprised how good everyone looked, but there's a darker side to the looking good. Okay. How to comment in from Mike Mallory. Can you forward this to Dave Miss Dasha, longtime listener of the show, you answered a question about gluten intolerance. It was a bit misinformed on the William McGee episode. I love it's called the William D episode had not Herald William listener. Harold doesn't listen. Although Harold might be here next week. True or False?

He's gonna be here in Brooklyn. On the phone. it well. He's gonna

be in New York City in the real life this next week because of this like Science Festival thing that's going on World Science Festival that mustache and I are doing some sort of cocktail for you didn't know you were going but you are. Yeah. So anyways, so yeah, he's going to be in town. And if, if he is going to be in town on the Tuesday, I said that I would handcuff them and bring them into the studio. Wow. Yeah. And I think he actually leaves Tuesday, so a lot depends on when he's leaving, but I don't even know that he's eaten Roberta's before. So maybe we can woo him with like, even maybe above the pizza level if Harold McGee comes in can he get above the pizza and salad level of of cooking issues remuneration for for service rendered? Certainly I think I'll even pay for his car to JFK.

Ah, Whoa. Wow, just a baller now.

Yeah, you like that? That's crazy. All right. Okay. Sorry. You answered a question about gluten intolerance was a bit misinformed on the William McGee episode. Gluten Intolerance is not the same as celiac. It's well known in the research that a good chunk of the population mounts an immune reaction to gluten Gliadin but it's not specifically a celiac or have like a you know, a health a, what would you call it? This is I'm paraphrasing the health endangering allergy, certainly we call it a gluten intolerance is a gray area but still measurable via lab test. Below full blown celiac which is more severe and immediate and immediate immunoglobulin response. I say gray area because there's a huge spectrum of mucosal membrane based immune immune response IGA things that mount slow inflammatory reactions to gluten. It's often called subclinical gluten intolerance because the body has a measurable reaction, but not a true allergic reaction. It's a different type of immune response. But you should know the difference between an intolerance and an allergy. Not all folks avoid gluten because it's bad for celiacs. That's not to say most people who avoid gluten at restaurants aren't full of sugar honey iced tea. It would be nice if she just knew that there isn't just black and white celiac or not. It there's a whole class of immune mediated reactions, aka gluten intolerance. Mike Mallory, Mike point well taken. Point well taken to simplified and the last thing but I guess simplified for effect, which is there's a whole group of people there who are full of sugar honey iced tea, but I think my point last week was also that I'm kind of glad like, I don't care, I'm glad Look, people like me who have no problem with the gluten like we're gonna pound as much gluten as we can affect I was talking to someone at the reunion who's gluten and gluten and tall, she's actually celiac. And so we were discussing this, this issue with them. And she was like, yeah, that if I could eat gluten, I would be swimming through loads of baguettes. You know, I'd be like chomping swimming through loads of baguettes and you know inhaling pizzas as fast as I can eat them because stuffs delicious. But But kit anyway but you know again, thank goodness for the people who don't consume it for no apparent reason because they create a huge industry that allows people like our good Piper to be able to eat better products. Yeah. Anyway, point well taken now, back to the mystical myths. Oh, stars. So you went to the Rhode Island? Correct? Yeah. And you went to go see now you can't you can't can't Don't you don't eat horseshoe crabs. But a horseshoe crabs. You think that they're kind of interesting when they're on the ground on the beach. They're actually horrifying. You know, they're, I know that they're interesting and fascinating. And they're throwback living fossils. So I don't want to get any comments about how I'm maligning them. They're horrifying, horrifying, like little creatures. So what do you go see?

We we went to the hotel where they were having a meeting, a meeting event? Yeah, for these guys. And we were supposed to be in a boat, but they made us put on waiters. I told you that was a no, no, but it wasn't covered. It was just a couple. A couple.

Like, every couple feet. We said it was a crappy weekend. So it's kind of

ruined wasn't out there that was pouring. They were Yeah,

yeah. So So stars did not you have to do it again. I know. Yeah. Yeah. So here's what happened. So in the span of my young life, between eight years old and 10 years old, I witnessed some of the most horrifying biblical proportion, natural events in kind of the history of New Jersey, and kind of the little eastern seaboard thing there. Right. So we like we didn't have that many hurt. But in 77, we got hit by my name David was pretty bad. Not bad by you know, Sandy standards. But you know, I was like, Okay, I was little so it seemed like a big deal. Then. When I was eight years old, we went to Cape, I went to Cape Cod to a thing to a camp and witnessed one of these things by mistake. And it was I had to wait ashore and the entire ground in the bay was was coated with these monstrous, monstrous, monstrous, monstrous, monstrous horseshoe crabs, and you couldn't avoid them. And as an eight year old, you know, not being first in horseshoe crabs. You're like, Oh, my God, right. And furthermore, I learned a couple of years later that that the horseshoe crab blood, which is copper based and not, not iron based, in terms of its oxygen capability. Yeah. Yeah, blue or green, whatever, just was incredibly valuable at the time in research. And so I thought I was going to make a business of going back. I thought I was going to become a millionaire, like destroying all these dreaded horseshoe crabs, and milking their blood out of them for profit. It didn't happen. I don't know it didn't happen. And then like right after that, the cicadas are right before that can my brother's gonna be the cicadas came out in Bergen County, New Jersey and coated the ground and made a deafening, awful trifid like din of horrible cicada. Like it's just crunching of stepping on cicada, the worst thing ever for a guy that hates bugs and supposedly happy now, but now is not it's not biblical. Now. Has anyone called in and be like, Oh my God, that's a Kate has no right. Have you heard it? Have you seen people running in screen now covered by cicadas? School buses full of horrified children? No, it's not like it was two cycles ago, 34 years ago when I witnessed it. And then the 1981 gypsy moth plague that hit the East Coast and deforested a whole bunch of stuff. So you know, what I'm looking for is a bunch of kind of Biblically bad natural science to come on. I don't really want that to happen. Anyway. So you didn't get you didn't get that hostile? Oh, it was unfortunate. Yeah. Well, you know, maybe maybe this stuff is best experienced when you're a kid. Yeah. You think Yeah, yeah. Now we got his walk in the woods because of Lyme disease. It's not as visual you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Oh, in Oh line, by the way. Last week after the after the thing, the heart of Lyme disease, and apparently Lyme disease still going strong. They're like hardcore. I was hoping to kind of to get it so I could get it in the official place. Like I got my Lyme disease in Bradford. Nah, man, I got my Lyme disease in Lyme. Bang. I'm just kidding. You don't want to get Lyme disease it's horrible can cause permanent central nervous system problems if not treated properly, yada, yada. Do not take this as a making fun of the disease. It's horrible. Okay, Lucas writes in about ice cream. Hey, cooking issues radio team, big fan of the show, especially Dave's tirades against ever changing and contradictory health fads. Here's the question. I'm a big fan of fury, the latte ice cream milk cream sugar and nothing more. You like that stuff? Does? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Where do you where do you where do you have it? Mostly? Not here. But when you go to Italy because you're an American hater. Like where do you normally get it? Oh the small towns small, small town which I had when I was a kid and could never forget every time I see it at a restaurant or ice cream shop I order it the thing is the texture is always somewhat disappointing. Correct. You are correct. Do we actually this is not from is this one from Lucas. This is not from Lucas. This is From Jose, man, Lucas your questions come in later on Jose, I apologize. This is your question. Wherever every time I see it at a restaurant ice cream shop, I order it the thing is the texture is always somewhat disappointing. Either they pump it up with excessive quantity of hydrocolloids, making it pasty or gummy, or it is slightly granular, probably globules of fat clumping up and making butter or ice crystals. Frankly, you know, the the issue here is, yeah, is the texture is a big problem with this style, but we'll get into it. I've tried to make it a home multiple times I have a DeLong D with a built in freezer, but I keep getting the slightly granular result, which is not surprising. Since after refrigeration, the cream fat rises to the top by the way, that's a right there. It's a classic sign it's under frozen. The problem with the problem with the home ice cream freezers that have the built in refrigeration units is that they just simply aren't very powerful. Like if you look at carpet Johnny Cola, like used to make a version that has a similar capacity to your DeLonge V but the machine is a good three times bigger. And the reason is because they have like a serious compressor built into it. And the small compressors, like if it doesn't isover like instantly as soon as it turn it on, it means that it just doesn't have the life cycle. How nice is that? Yeah, yeah, come on is it doesn't have the CO harness to freeze it down fast enough. And so if you look at the ratings on the DeLong, the people are talking 2535 minute batch times for a load of ice cream and an ice cream. You really want to batch time me look commercial people they're doing batch times is seven, eight minutes on ice cream longer on surveys, but like seven, eight minutes on ice creams. And the reason is, is a faster freezing means smaller crystal sizes. So you're a little bit hampered because you're dealing with a larger crystal sizes to begin with. Because your long freeze times. Then secondly, if you turn it off too soon before it freezes, you know a little more completely than what you have it now you have a big liquid phase. And that liquid phase is going to cause some of these problems and also exacerbate your crystals because the rest of the stuff as you put it in your freezer to harden right will quietly freeze into much larger granules. So under foot like so under frozen stuff tastes fine, kind of straight out of the machine because you just pound it and it's kind of like soft serve, and you're not noticing the crystals as much. But on hardening those under frozen ice creams are going to it's going to accentuate that crystal problem. Now you have a third problem in that you're dealing with. You're dealing with an ice cream that doesn't have any inherent added emulsifiers from egg yolks right now, what you call what you call a fury latte ice cream, which by the way is not made out of a fjord, a latte. Cow's milk mozzarella, also delicious products, right? different products. If you're it just means flour or the milk, right Italian speaker check this out stars. God he was told this story grew up knowing Spanish why? Because she's half Mexican and grew up in LA. Right? So it makes sense that she would speak Spanish if I was half Mexican and grew up in LA I would speak Spanish my kids speak Spanish because they grew up in New York me I'm an idiot. I don't speak Spanish. Here's what she says. I learned Italian in college and forgot the Spanish that was that I learned in college. I learned from a boyfriend even worse. I was trying to make it less embarrassing for you. My god, wow. Yeah, anyway. Okay. So before we get to so what you're calling a fury latte ice cream is what we in the states call Philadelphia style Philly style with no egg yolks. No nothing is just milk. Typically milk, cream, sugar, vanilla with no stabilizers now the classic examples of this stuff in the US used to be Breyer so Breyers is a Philadelphia Pennsylvania style ice cream. And they used to tout the fact that they were made with only those ingredients and they had a very very fast freeze time. And so they results were good straight out of the box if you lived close to Philadelphia, if you tried to buy Breyers and you live far away from Philadelphia or wherever their packing plants were or if you made the mistake of buying that half gallon of Breyers ice cream and then not consuming the entire half gallon the instant it was open. It turned to crap and that's and the reason is because there's no stabilizers or emulsifiers in it to prevent crystal growth in your freezer where it freezes and thought we so they got around the first problem initial graininess by just having a very very fast freeze time and commercial continuous freezers but they couldn't get around the secondary problem of it turning to crap and your crappy home I'm not saying your home freezers crappy but your crappy home freezer. Because it because it is. Yeah. It couldn't get around that problem without a most fired. So what did they do? Very, very quietly. I think like the summer sometime in the last decade, they started doping Breyers with stabilizers, karagin and things like that. karagin is a good one because you can use extremely small quantities of it. Okay, now, to get back to your point. Usually on Philadelphia style ice creams or in your latte there fairly high fat and that high fat is to get around the fact that you are now I don't know a lot about fury latte but I do know a lot about Philly because I used to make Philly style ice cream all the time. You know, my my family doesn't come from there now but I have a lot of them to come from outside the Philly area you're in Pennsylvania. That's why I love pretzels so much anyway,

that one of the tricks is it has a higher fat content than you would get out of a standard custard ice cream. So you typically, you know, instead of like from from my ice cream, I typically use one to one milk to cream. But for customer base ice cream. And you know the gelato heads are going to use probably even less cream than that if you use more milk, but more egg yolks and more sugar for gelato style. And don't let anyone tell you that enchilada they don't dope that stuff with dope that stuff with staplers. And by the way, I'm gonna go out on another limb and get my get my head chopped off by people. I like American ice cream every bit as much as I like Italian gelato. In fact, because I grew up with it. I have a soft spot for a properly done American ice cream that can't be taken by anyone else's ice cream and gelato and I've eaten it in small towns in Italy, in large towns in Italy, in tourist traps in Italy and in the place where was like You must go have their gelato in Italy. Right. And usually what it is, is heavily loaded with stabilizers. Super doped with flavors, right? Like that's why it has intense punchy colors because they have so much it's just so much of muchness, and it's good, but I wouldn't say that I would always want to have that over like a good old fashioned scoop of and I like I like the quote unquote French but American style ice creams, which means custard based and I also like love good Philly style ice cream, okay, now, so in affiliate style ice cream, you're gonna go higher on the cream, so you're gonna probably go two to one cream to milk in that range. Once you get in that range, you running into a couple of big problems. One, if you overturn that sucker, it'll get kind of very buttery tasting. And you'll and you'll notice that which is why, by the way, the ice cream machine I recommend for use at home is standard old rocksalt ice ice cream makers. They make an unbeatable stock their pain in the ass, but pain in the butt, but they make an unbelievable ice cream, you know, just just saying. But with even with those, you have to be careful in very, very high Creamery recipes about overturning. If you overturn your ice cream, it's has a very characteristic buttery flavor that's different from a greenhouse caused by ice crystals, and you'll definitely get a kind of butter note on it. And I think sometimes the overturn stuff has a little bit of a choppiness to it, but I don't know I just made that up off the top my head. It sounds right. Yeah, it sounds like it could be wrong, but sounds right. Okay, so that said, let's move to ways to fix this problem. So typically, if you're going to add stabilizers, you want to add the smallest amount of stabilizer possible. Or if you're in a natural head, you might want to go natural because all this stuff's natural. I hate that hate us so much. I might even say that this stuff's natural. What I mean is if you want to go into something that doesn't freak people out is what I meant, you know, go into the Caribbeans, although that kind of was Carageenan freakout, I don't know caregiving. Okay, so the good news about karagin and it is it has a synergistic effect with milk so you can use absurdly small amounts of it to get the effects you want. Right. So typically, in ice cream, they'll have a two part system they'll have a gelling system and a thickening system, one to prevent crystal formation and the other one to prevent the way from separating from the wait till way off way from separating and preventing other problems. So typically, you'll have a two part system like a Carageenan maybe locust bean gum or a Caribbean guar. And you can add very small amounts of that stuff and not make it gummy and do a really good job stabilizing or you could buy commercial stabilizer bases, you know things and add them and by and large that you can get them that are all natural, you don't have to get the ones but when I say all natural, I mean just like seaweed powders you don't have to go to ones that have lots of like weird emulsifiers and and things like that. Another thing you can do, I know this is going against what you're doing. The great thing about this kind of ice cream that I used to like is that I didn't cook it at all ever. It was all cold had a really, really really fresh taste. A lot of people heat their Philly style ice cream so that they can get the sugar in but I just waited a lot longer for the sugar to dissolve and never heated it so it had a real fresh flavor. So that's, that's I think what you're shooting at so I want to go for things that don't necessarily need a lot of heating. What you might want to do is take a portion of it, right So other things that can't be heated that are good stabilizers. Guar. Guar doesn't need to be heated. You have to get the flavor free guar though. Another thing you might want to look at is Jelena Jelena do you need to heat to a boil but what you could do is just Heat a small portion of the milk with the jail and the boil, set it as the gel and then blend it into a fluid gel. And that makes a very good flavor release super creamy ice cream, right? Super creamy. It's on a cooking issues blog. Another thing you can look at just good old fashioned gelatin unless you are vegetarian gelatin makes a very good, you know, addition to ice creams to decrease the amount of crystallization you get. And you can warm a portion of the milk up to hot with the jet with the gelatin then temper the rest of your milk slash cream back into it and still have a relatively fresh taste. If you want to go Sam Mason style and all you want the uncooked flavor, but you don't mind adding things that aren't milk. He uses barely pasteurized egg yolks and they're not cooked into a custard. And that's also interesting. It's not the same thing as you're looking at. But it's also interesting for a last thing on a milk based only you might want to look at and there's a small subset ever been asleep says No, neither everyone says they make an ice cream over that mean either. They make an ice cream over there that where they thicken it with starch. It's cornstarch thick and ice cream. And I haven't had it but there's a bunch of people on the internet who love it and that stuff is so stabilized it has relatively good flow. Oh by the way back on gelatin The reason gelatin is good is because gelatin has a very good good flavor release because it melts it first of all, it's not freeze thaw stable. So it breaks up after it's frozen and thaws out. It goes away in the mouth anyway has very little flavor impact gelatin is like flavor released part XML right? Gelatin, which I said before, which is microbe derived also by the way I'm talking Loisel gel and which is the hard one that you break up the flu gels also very good flavor released. starch and low levels has fairly good flavor at least but it does mask you know what I mean? It does mess things up. But if you're dealing with low p some people like I've done some starch based ice creams that I hated, but they were very high starch based ice creams. And when I was trying to make snappy ice creams, I mean, I like potato based ice creams I've done you know many many versions of potato ice cream that have like a snap, but I haven't done starch but a lot of people swear by it. Mark Bittman swears by it, or swore by it in his minimalist article he wrote a number of years ago, but the interesting thing is, is that they're so stabilized that you can make them with quiescent, freezing, and they still don't get big ice crystals, right? Which means that your machine if it takes a long time to make ice cream might benefit from that sort of ice cream bass because it's going to turn out smooth anyway because the starch matrix is preventing large crystals from forming. So might want to give that, give that a try. There's a recipe for it on ice cream. nation.com you go check it out. What do you think's does? Good Yeah, what's a commercial break? Sure. Nice timing. Oh, yeah.

This is Chris Young, co author of Modernist Cuisine. Together with photographer Ryan, Matthew Smith and Chef grant Crilly. We've created something exciting and new@chefsteps.com. Each day in our kitchenette, Seattle's Pike Place Market. We're working on new recipes, as well as updating classic ones that we love. And we're always looking for new techniques that make the impossible possible@chefsteps.com. We publish it all online with detailed step by step demonstrations, as well as explanations of the science that answers the why behind the how in the kitchen. And through our forum, you can engage with our team, as well as a friendly community of curious cooks from around the world. If you're interested in becoming a better cook, if you want more from the creative team behind Modernist Cuisine, and if like us, you're a fan of Dave Arnold and cooking issues than we think there's a lot you'll like. And the best part chefsteps.com is entirely free to learn.

Free to learn. That's crazy. That's crazy. Where you're talking to an ice cream machine maker before you call.

Yes, I was talking ice cream machine and so why don't we just do all let's do all the ice cream in one in one, one chunk. All right. So by the way, Chris assumes if you're listening to this that you want to learn nobody listens to this to learn. I'm just kidding. I'm just messing love Chris. We're gonna schedule to see him sometime. But do we know he sent him a torch? Yeah, we'll see how that goes. Okay. How do you pronounce it? What do you guys think? i a i n e n Hmm. In let's go with that in. In in Hertfordshire. UK writes in about batch freezers, ice cream freezers. Hey, Dave Annastacia. Do you have any experience with ice cream batch freezers. So by the way, folks, batch freezer for ice cream it what that means is what it says it does it in per batch. So you make a batch. You load it in And you turn the ice cream for a specific amount of time and you get the ice cream out. So liquid nitrogen and a Kitchenaid freezer that's batch freezing. It's not about freezer but that's batch freezing using the hand turned ice cream machines that with rocks and ice salt batch freezing the opposite of batch freezing is continuous freezers continuous freezers constant amount of product is pumped in all the time and it's frozen very very short short periods of time. So continuous freezers are out all the all the big folks do it you know commercially and producers can produce with if you use good ingredients and you change you know, amount of air that's in ice cream is called the overrun and when you're using a continuous freezer, you just the overrun independently of in a batch freezer, the Dashers the spinning things are what does the aeration and provides what's called the overrun how much air is in it. And so 100% 100% overrun means that there is for every for every milliliter of ice cream base there is a milliliter of air that's 100% overrun it's done based on how much ice cream base you started with. And you know anything over 100 is absurdly you know, absurdly light and anything you know, the more premium ice cream so the funny thing about ice cream, I want to talk about this. The funny thing about ice cream ice cream is sold volumetrically right, it's sold by the pint by the court. And yet the cost to produce the ice cream is based upon the weight of ingredients that goes in and the quality of those ingredients. So anyone that knows anything about ice cream, if you go to like the corner truck, the ice cream truck and they give you the soft a lot of people associate soft serve with being inexpensive or having a lot of air in it and that's really a function of temperature and mixture ingredient mixture not a function of overrun so if you go to Carvel which when I was a kid was like the awesome soft serve, but it's East Coast oil and they don't have Caravelle on the West Coast. Yeah, so if you go to Carvel which is like northeast like you know, soft serve ice cream, those suckers are dense, their ice cream cone weighs quite a bit, right? But if you go to not calling you out Mr. Softee, but some of the people have bastardize your missus and New York City ice cream truck company, but they're in those soft serve machines. There's an orifice and the orifice pumps the mix into the chamber freezing chamber. And the size of the orifice determines how much air is pumped into it at the time when it goes. So some disreputable Ice Cream Truck. People will put an orifice in there that generates like 120% overrun, so you're buying more air than ice cream. And you can those cones that remember that cone of Berg and then you pick it up and it's like a balloon floating out of your hand. It's so light Anyway, whatever. We're gonna get into that anyway. So a continuous freezer is usually only done by larger scale people. I don't consider a soft serve machines, which do continuously add product I don't really consider them to be continuous freezers because they don't work on the same principle as a continuous freezer. There's only one continuous freezer that's available and not a batch freezer that I know of that's available to small run people and it used to be made by Ross R O S S, which was bought by I don't know how you pronounce it. It's got the EU lab but it's not pronounced Stoelting which is how you pronounce it. If you're German steel ting it's Stoelting I think is how they pronounce it. They bought Ross freezers but that's a frozen custard machine and in essence is a continuous freezer that said Okay, back to batch freezers. And back to Ian's question. Do you have any experience with ice cream? Batch freezers? Yes, that's a key right? Yeah, yeah. I'm about to start up a small ice cream company selling quality ice is made from local fruits and other ingredients from a bike with a freezer attached. I forgot that I didn't really even read. How are you going to? We're going to power that sucker. How you gonna get power that pedal power on the ice cream machine while you're riding around town, but a little generator on the back wheel. Good to go. All right. Okay. I was local fruits and other ingredients from a bike with a freezer dish. Now I think what he's going to do, I think he means not a batch freezer. I think he means a dipping freezer. I don't think he means that there's going to be the actual equipment, right? Yeah. Okay, I guess I'm gonna tell me if I'm wrong here. But that'd be awesome. If you actually had the machine on a bike. First of all your legs must be jacked. What's the name of that Scottish bike do with the giant chain rings who had that movie made about him? You don't even know who I'm talking about? This guy in Scotland? I think he's Scotland. Amazing biker he led me McCaskill is that the one who won like the championship very late in life and switched the style of biking he did on biker guy. No, no, no, no, this guy. Here's a movie about him. He like won a championship much later in life. And he's known for having incredibly huge chain rings on his track bikes, so that he is like his Anyway, whatever chain ring is the thing that you're David Miller. I mean, I can remember

Scottish bikers up there.

Well, you know, they're there. They're a tough people. Okay. And I'm looking for a robust machine that can produce a reasonable output of ice cream in one hour. I'm looking at about nine liters per hour I saw the Emory Thompson, CB 200. And the other side the larger size one they have is the FCB 350 And it looks perfect, but unfortunately is not available in the UK until next year. Do you know any others around the same size and price. The other option I was thinking about was a pacojet. But I'm concerned that it might not be robust enough. They look great for restaurants that might want to do one portion at a time. But I would need to pocket ties, which by the way, in is a word I detest, we just say spin because pocket. I don't want to let those guys coin their own word. They're already charging you an arm or leg for the frickin machine. And they're Swiss. Everyone knows how I feel about them. Stars likes the Swiss. Yeah, so that half of us love the Swiss. I've no, actually I have nothing against the real Swiss in the real life. It's just I like to make fun of them. Right? You know, watches and chocolate are great, you know? Okay. But the point is, is that don't don't let them have that word. Just say spin. That's what we say spin. Can. Okay, but I want you to spend the whole tub and do about eight or nine tubs in an hour. Kenda pacojet handle that my budget is between three and 4000 Great British pounds. I would appreciate if you could answer my question on the 21st or 28th of May as I need to make my purchase very soon. PS loving the show just discovered a couple months ago and catching up on the old episodes. So here we are on the 28th. To answer your question, I called the president Mr. Thompson of emery Thompson and asked him and he's like, I forget whether you said third or fourth generation ice cream machine manufacturers and I watched his YouTube video on the CB 200. And unfortunately for you in that machine is kind of in a psi slash price category of its own, I haven't seen anything else that's kind of that low. So they retail in the US for about 55,000. they retail for 5300 and change. Um, so that means I'm assuming you can get it for a little bit less if you you know, if you will and deal. But I asked him when I called him I was like, Well, can you know, can this person just fly over from the UK, you know, using you know, your awesome, great British money and making us look like idiots here in the US with our current state of our Monopoly money and purchase one from you that you outfit for the UK and take back? And unfortunately, Mr. Thomson said no, the problem is, is that us to 20 us to 20 is a different wiring schema from UK to 20. Because I guess you're using single phase 220 Over there, and that they need to get an entirely different condenser unit for it. It's made special they can't just you know, kind of, you know, rejigger or hack one of their units here for you. Although he seemed to feel for your problem, and also laughed when I said Is there anything else in that price he's like, No, because I think that's going to be a category killer when it comes out. Your next best bet is the 350. His version of the 350 is available. That's a six quart, I think or eight quart unit. And the other ones I don't have any experience with their machines. But I do have a lot of experience with the Carpigiani lb one hundreds the problem with the lb one hundreds or lab 100 depending on which vintage you get is that now you're talking to a $10,000 machine us I don't know what they cost in. In the UK, there are great machines, they do have some known problems like if you get one of the older ones with the clear plastic front, they break they always break and then you need to fix them. The other option in the U S, I don't know if they sell them in the UK is tailor tailor machines are are cheaper than the lb one hundreds, but I've haven't used them I was never a huge fan of the Taylor versus the lb, one hundreds if you can have a good used market, they do make a smaller batch machine Carpigiani makes a very small batch machine like I think maybe two quarts even smaller than the one you're looking at. That's a vertical batch freezer and sits on the countertop that sucker. I've never used one but supposedly has a very, very high quality. But there's not that much in that size range that you were talking about just a couple of quarts that performs on a professional level. So sorry about that. Now on the pacojet, I appears a problem with pacojet Right. Your question is can I get away with using a pacojet? And the answer is yes. Here's the bad news. You cannot get away with using one pacojet. Because what will happen it's not that you need to to run at any one time sucker is going to break let me let me just be very clear about your pacojet. Your pacojet will break. And now they will fix it, right. But at least in the US, they don't do the following awesome thing. Oh, your pacojet is broken. And it cost an obscene amount of money and you can't buy parts from a normal person. So you have to send it to me to fix it. Oh, here's a loaner that you can use while your pacojet is broken. Because we know what's gonna break in the US. That doesn't happen. So they just say guess what? Eat it Jerko. And so you have to not have your pacojet for a long time or have to have a friend that has a PocketJet. So if you're going to do this, you can do it. But you have to run to pacojet at once, also. So like Pure Food and Wine, you realize that it's called Summer melon guys this place. She has an ice cream shop that runs exclusively off of pacojet and she has two maybe three and she's been running for years that way and works but she always has one when the other one goes down. Here's the other thing. pacojet loves to charge you a lot of money for the stainless steel, bain marie that you freeze the ice. So pacojet For those who don't know what to tell people always say it's like a blender. It's not like a blender. It's like the world's greatest shaved ice machine. It slowly feeds a blade into into the top of the you freeze your base solid like a rock, and then it feeds the blade and slowly spinning and advancing at such a slow rate, that the crystals that are shaved off are the same crystal size that you would get using a commercial ice cream machine. They're fantastic. They're loud, they're fantastic. You definitely can get throughput. You're gonna be running it all the time. But you need to what, what a couple of people have done with pacojet Scully Mills used to do it and aqua VT and Pure Food and Wine does it is they freeze their base in court containers which are almost free, although I've been told when when I say I've been told when I ask people in other countries, hey, I need some core containers. They look at me like I'm an idiot. I don't think a lot of other people use quart containers. So find whatever the UK equivalent of a quart container is or buy some from the good ol US of A and freeze your base in the court containers. Core containers are a little bit tapered. So you can pop the stuff out of the court and you have to get the levels right you pop the base out of the court container. And then you jam it into your pacojet container and spin like that. The problem is if it's crooked, right, if it's crooked, then when your blade hits it, it'll hit one side of the of the base only and you can shatter your pacojet blades won't kill the pacojet. But you'll shattered the blades blades are like $150. However, in the long run, you are going to save money by doing quart containers because you need a lot of them to do the kind of thing you're doing and just buy yourself an extra blade. Do not attempt to run an ice cream business with the mnemonics or ninox. Whatever it is, Frick's air unit that was made sold as a competitive pacojet. It will not it works fine for the tiny little cups that it does, but it will not work for what you want. What do you think? Sounds good, good job. Did I do good coach? Okay. All right. Should we take one more break and come back? Or should we power through? Power? Yeah, power power. Okay. Got a question in this one actually is from Lucas. Right. If I can find it. Where is it? Where is it? Where is it? Oh, my goodness.