Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

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Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live from Burgess pizzeria in the back of well no coming to you from rubbers p3 Actually not the back of anything. We are the back of barbers in Bushwick, Brooklyn, back from Senegal today. Sorry, I wasn't able to do it. Last week live from Senegal. But you know sometimes these things work. We are down two of our crew members today in Estancia the hammer. Lopez is in Philadelphia, attending a conference by our good friends, David Michaels. flavors and Food Chemistry folks down in Philadelphia, and they're hosting a Food Innovation seminar today. And mustaches. They're also Jack is MIA today, but we do have Joe Thank goodness. Hey, Joe. How's it going? Dave doing well. And we are joined in the studio. I think for the first time ever may be in the studio with Peter Kim. Yo, what's up? Yo, how so Peter? Kim? Is what's your title of

their executive director? Really? Yeah.

Okay. Is the executive. Steve. I know. Peter Kim is the executive director of the Museum of food and drink, which is a 501 C three. When do we get our status? Sir?

You got it last September. Right.

And we have oh, yes. I'm the founder. I also have what's my other title? He's also the president founder and also the president visionary. Right? Yeah, yes. Great. And you want to give him the mission. I'm sure you have it memorized.

Our mission is to change that. way people think about food and inspired day to day curiosity about what we eat and

why. Yeah. And and, you know, just, I'm sure I've already spotted this many times. But why do we need a brick and mortar museum devoted to this?

Because you can't eat food and a book. And you know, watching TV is always unsatisfying as you see people eating food, but at a museum, you could actually be tasting things as you learn about it.

Right? So in this museum, it's not going to be as someone once asked me, you know, a long time ago, are we just going to be looking at, you know, shellacked pieces of bread or some sort of plastic sushi or stuff like that is that we're going to be looking at, you

know, moldy sandwiches and, you know, little boxes. This is gonna be like, I mean, sometimes I describe it like, like Willy Wonka's chocolate factory, but with an educational focus. Right,

right. And, you know, and, and why have most other food museums this concept? Why? Why do you find them lacking? Why are they lacking there?

I think two things really, one is that they often have too broad of a focus. And so they try to cover everything in food and drink, which, you know, as you know, really well, that covers that covers a lot of ground. And so most ad will be actually focusing on very specific topics instead. And the other is, I think, you know, a lot of a lot of food museums really end up being corporate sales. And that's something we're really not going to be

sweet. So you know, it's good to hear good to hear these words out of out of Peters mouth, we hope to have this museum in an actual brick and mortar location in how many years,

around five years, five or six times the build Museum,

it turns out, it does take time to build a museum. In fact, you know, most museums start with a large donation of money, or a large donation of a collection. Right. So they start with that kind of that kind of a nut. The the genesis of this museum simply is an idea. But I think, you know, the great part about this idea is that a lot of people like the subject, and so we're hoping to we're going to be I'm going to be pestering and soliciting for the museum. More and more, as time goes on. Just wanted our listeners to know that the project is still going great guns slamming forward, not in a way that people outside might see. But that there is actually a lot of work going on. And hopefully, you know, can't talk about it much right now. But hopefully good news in three, four months, maybe. Yeah, possible, fingers crossed. And if it's not good news in three and four months, I'll tell you what the bad news is that it wasn't good news, figured out what our next steps are. But the other reason I have Peter in the studio today is because I just got back from Africa. And since Natasha can't be here, I wanted to talk a little bit later about my trip to Africa. And Peter's a good choice because he was also a volunteer in the Peace Corps in Cameroon. Correct?

That's right, almost two and a half years there. Yep.

And, interestingly, if we have time, I don't know if we will, because of course, I'm horribly late. We'll get into also to Peter's experimentation with caught over on the in the east of Africa.

I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, it's

legal over there. Right. I mean, I don't think you're gonna get prostate I don't think you can get Peter aside, aside from being the executive director of the Museum of food and drink. And a an accomplished Spanish style guitar player is a lawyer and so you know, probably shouldn't cop to illegal drug use in in this country. And I guess technically, if it's a schedule one narcotic you're not allowed to consume in any country. Is that true? I'm not sure how it works. Well, maybe you could talk about the experiences of some guy named meter MIM that you are sitting next to him. Yeah. Keator Finn in in East Africa later? Because I think it's an interesting. It's an interesting story, and we'll get into later anyway. Should you have questions, feel free to call them into 784-972-1208? That's 184972128. Okay. First question from William about milk. My cousin had an interesting question on her faith on her Facebook page, she has come across whole milk being sold for $1.59 A gallon at her local store. That's crazy. Milk should not cost $1.59 A gallon. You know, I mean, that's insane. I mean, like, I mean, it shouldn't happen. It's got it mean like, I hope I hope it stores losing a lot of money. And if they haven't figured out a way to screw this system, and the people making it, Nick how so hard that the milk is actually only worth $1.59 a gallon? You know what I mean? Yeah, maybe, maybe someone like mislabeled it. I've done that like I walked into a store once and passionfruit were labeled per pound instead of per each. This was back when I was you know, just graduated from college I had no money and so I bought every passion fruit in the store for like an unbelievably low price and the person I was like new to so when the person you have to honor the price that you put in the thing, and they did then I was even more of a jerk than than I am. I should have just purchased two passionfruit at that price and then let them recoup their mistake, but instead I bought that's all you do. It's not me I bought every passionfruit in the store. That's right. Although it doesn't say limit. I was real jerk but you know you when you're when you have no money and you and you love things, like it's you know, you feel more of a justification for jerking people around like

that and you taught them a valuable lesson and precision with their pricing.

I did Did I'm sure they didn't give a crap. That was a Stop and Shop back in New Haven. Oh, boy, going back to the soup. I haven't been back to the superstar shop in New Haven in a bazillion years. And I don't think I will know, your shop and stuff.

I've never No, no,

no, no, not really. Okay, question was, are there any drawbacks to freezing whole milk? Will the texture consistency or taste be adversely affected? I would think since it has much less milk, fat and cream that the ice crystals wouldn't affect it so much. Thanks. Can't wait till the Kickstarter torch is available. Neither can I actually. But we're working on that as well. So it's an interesting question, William. Now, there are a lot of studies out there. What happens if I haven't tasted it and have time to actually do the test and see whether you could do tasting? What happens is that the, the fat globules in homogenized milk are altered by the freezing process. And so it's possible that you will get different and in fact, there's some studies, I didn't have time to sift through them all. There's a bunch of studies out there on this, but a lot of them are older, so I couldn't get the full text of them. They weren't in the in the database, or the database that I was searching. So I couldn't get the actual nitty gritty of it. But yeah, so when you freeze, especially if you're going through multiple freeze thaw cycles, which is going to happen unless something's totally frozen. So depends on how much abuse you getting in the fridge, you're going to alter the fat globule size. Now, if you alter the fat globule size, you will alter mouthfeel. And you will alter you know, possibly, you know, how it works, whether it's going to you know, the fat is going to agglomerate more when you when you heat it, I would think that it's going to be relatively small effect. You know, when you're using the milk in, in, in cooking situations where curdling might not be a problem. And it might not even have an affecting in a curdling situation. But yes, technically it is affected. And although I apologize that I don't have more information on that I came across and this is one of the reasons I'm actually late is because when I'm researching something I just like, in my real life, when I'm researching things, I go off on tangents and found a very interesting tangent. It's actually going to tie in later we have a question about pregnancy and eating later. But there was a study on freeze freezing and thawing human breast milk. And this is actually very important because most mothers who breastfeed also, at least that I have met, you know, will also express some of their breast milk and freeze it for later use this way. If they're at work, you know, your caregiver can feed the actual breast milk to the child, or an alternate thing is that, you know, the mom then can sleep a little bit longer at night, and the dad can wake up in the middle of the night and feed, they already expressed breast milk, you know, natural breast milk to the baby. Right. So and you know, you can either refrigerate the milk, or you can freeze it now. So the question is, does freezing the breast milk, do anything bad to the milk? And, and this is also important in other countries actually, because there's a thing called the human milk banks and, and human milk bank, you know, mothers who are lactating, continue to lactate and express milk and then donate it to donate it to hospitals. So that, you know, babies that are born early, let's say and maybe the mother's milk doesn't come in right away, they can feed this, you know, actual human milk to babies that couldn't otherwise have, which is a great idea. Right? Fantastic idea. Right. But you have to freeze it to preserve it. Okay, so So what happens? Well, it turns out that aside from the structure of the fat, you know, changing like I said, I said it would the actual fat level in the milk as it's fed to the babies decreases substantially on freezing. And along with that the protein available in the milk decreases, not as much as the fat the fat can decrease significantly, you know, but the protein in it as well can decrease in the, the theory is this that I'm freezing the fat globules agglomerate when they agglomerate you know, they're not as well dispersed in the liquid phase. On thawing, right? The fat preferentially sticks to the relatively hydrophobic walls of the plastic vessels that breast milk is invariably stored in, they did and they didn't touch test glass because it's not usually stored in glass, right? So the fat, the fat sticks, predominantly to the side things and so the remaining liquid is relatively depleted in fat, and that some of the proteins also are bound in with the fat and adhere to the fat layer. And so you're also somewhat reduced in the protein levels as a result and and turns out that it's statistically significant. Interesting right now. So there you have it. Me, I don't know really what to make of that the name of the study should you choose to look at it is and my iPad decided that I should no longer be able to read. So it turns out counseling is it's in the magazine early human development. It's called analysis of the influence of oh, they also tested pasteurization, but I didn't read that section as much pasteurization of it, freezing thawing and other processes on human milks, macronutrient concentrations by Vieira at all in 2011. Oh, yeah, here's a reason not to pasteurized. I didn't read a little bit a reason a reason not to pasteurize a human breast milk is that inactivates, the bile salts stimulated lipase, which is greatly responsible for the digestion and absorption of fat in newborn infants. So pasteurization decreases the maximum utilization of the delivered human milk. That's a basically a direct quote. So anyway, there you have

it. Regardless what you do, it's probably better than powdered milk. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just saying that, you know, it's not saying that you you're not getting, you know, all the benefits, it's just that there's, you know, there's not going to be quite as nutritive in terms of fat. What I thought was interesting. But here's another interesting thing, I researched this. And I'll tell you the tangents, right. So recently, I, here's my story about that I've always had for years, and I've never gone back and done the hardcore research, which is what you should always do before you make a statement. People say, Well, should I consume breast milk? Should I? Should I consume alcohol while I'm lactating? Right? That's a question a lot of people ask. And my kind of pet response has been well, look, you figure that human milk, although it has fat is mostly water. You know, Vaseline, mostly water. And therefore, you would assume that the alcohol content of breast milk is relatively similar to the mother's blood alcohol level, blood alcohol level, let's say, you know, they were you know, on the limit their point zero 5.05%. Right. So assuming that the blood that the milk has a roughly similar alcohol concentration of point zero 5% alcohol, in my mind, from a, from an actual ethanol level concentration, that's roughly zero 0.5%. That would mean 50 milligrams per milligrams per 100 milliliters as opposed to a glass of wine, which is, you know, let's say it's 12% alcohol, that's 12,000 milligrams per, you know, per milliliter, right? So roughly zero, we're talking about 1000 milligrams. No. No, sorry. 120,000 milligrams. Yeah. So 35 milligrams would be roughly zero. Right. Okay. So it turns out, I might be wrong. So tip the bottle. Yeah. So well, no, no. So So here's the story. Right? It's, it is what is true is that human breast milk does roughly correlate with blood alcohol level, right? And so that for a woman that that consumes roughly 335 30, or three or so a little more little less grams of alcohol per kilogram of body weight. Right? Is that true? Anyway, gets a blood alcohol level of like point three, your milk will be roughly point 3.35, somewhere in there, right? percent. So the so the deal, the deal is, is that that was right. What I said, however, it turns out, there's a study that was published in 2000, that shows that that small amount of alcohol in the breast milk can actually have an effect. What they studied was, sleep, the sleep patterns of babies, and so that were fed in this study was they, they had mothers, and they expressed breast milk with the medulla. And then over the course of two different testing days, they either took that milk and added 35 milligrams per 100 ml of alcohol to the breast milk bottle, or didn't. And it turned out that the ones that they fed the alcohol to did not sleep as well and didn't have as much activity during their waking hours as the ones that didn't. So you know, it's only one study. I haven't seen it replicated since 2000. I don't know whether the information is still there. But it's interesting to note that, that that's out there, right? Anyway. So Alex from Toronto writes in dear Dave, Natasha, Jack, Joe, indeed Jesus, Carlos Regan back and whoever might be working in the booth now. Still catching up on back podcast, I was finally prompted to write in because of Dave's story about the person rapping out loud in Episode 83. So I was talking about how you know, people are rapping out loud and how they suck. That's what I was talking about. Anyway, I'll try to and my wife and I recently visited New York and probably the string Just think about our trip was how many people we saw singing as they walked the streets or waited for subway trains. Nearly all of them had earphones in and seem to be singing along with recordings, but we're also clearly practicing rather than just casually singing along. We wondered if this was some kind of special New York thing, the Broadway equivalent of La waiters hoping to be discovered by an agent or director. Judging by your reaction to the wrapper? Apparently not. But we saw at least a dozen people doing this on our four day visit. Our favorite was a girl practicing her ballet moves in the subway. Totally, unselfconsciously waiting for a train. Weird. Yes, it is weird. And it is quite common here. I don't know what the hell it is. I you know what I think it is. I think it's that when you live here, uh, first of all, I remember years ago, and I might have mentioned this in the other episode, like I was learning to try and play bagpipes, and they told me just go outside and play because just you know, because what else you can do you live in New York, you know, I mean, so there's the fact that if you can't practice anything in private New York, there's no private place in New York, you can do anything. You have an apartment, you probably have a family or roommates there. You know, you don't have a basement, you don't have a garage, you don't have a backyard. What the hell are you gonna do? You know, if you're gonna play bagpipes, you know, what are you gonna do? It's like, it's, there's no real choices, you know what I mean? And so same thing goes with bad rapping or bad singing or any of that stuff is that since you have no place to do it, you got assigned to do it. And furthermore, I think that like living in such a big busy city, strangely, dehumanizes all the people around you and they become like trees or shrubs, you tend to stop thinking of them as people and then so you're not embarrassed about singing in front of them, because they're not human beings. Do you?

Are you positing that there's a correlation between population density and bad public rapping?

possibly? Possibly, yes.

I also think that everybody is just crazy here too. Like there's there's a lot of crazy going on in New York City.

Do you think there's more crazy than normal? Or it's just like, like, you see it more because you see more people every day?

I think that's, I think that there's just so many people around, there's just got to be more crazies. Right.

Right. And like I say, like, you know, we have our we have our kind of, you know, zone out blinders on when you're walking around the city. And so, you know, you tend to just view everyone is this kind of like, like a blur? Right, you know, anyway, so anyway, they went to New York and and, and they made it back. And here's the story. When we got back from our trip to New York, we found that after three years of trying, we are expecting a baby, which is nice. So New York did the did the deal. The calendar doesn't quite back this up, but I give partial credit to the Bangkok daiquiri and son of a peach that we drank at Booker and DAX bar. Good time. Well, thanks. Thanks. I'll take that. I'll take that credit. You know, we're the mean, I wouldn't say that we're, yeah, I would. I'm not gonna go into it. Okay. We don't seem to have anything like the awesome New York bar scene here in Toronto. But perhaps I'm just unaware of the best stuff. Dave Chang just opened three restaurants in Toronto, and he plans to expand the Booker and DAX empire. I was put it this way. I don't know. I'd say no, I won't say yes. Okay. very ominous. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I hope it's not ominous hope if we do it, it's good thing. It's not like, you know, the evil empire coming in. I mean, maybe it is. I don't know. That'd be awesome. I wish I had some sort of like evil evil Emperor vibe that I could bring to whatever I do you know what I mean? Someday. That's my goal. Now. That's my new goal. Evil Empire vibe. Okay. But I guess it's time for some cooking questions. Now that the wife is up the spout, she's no longer able to enjoy her favorite drinks. By the way, that's a phrase and I pride myself on kind of being well versed in slang and idiom. I mean, it's kind of you No, I do. I've never heard that before. We hear that before never up the spout is a British and formalist according to the Oxford English Dictionary for one broken ie no longer working, which hopefully is that's not what we mean in the case, or to have a woman pregnant. But according is possibly related to the other thing, like somehow you're broken by getting pregnant, because I think it was maybe an unwanted pregnancy in the past, clearly not in this case, and it's lost that meaning. And third, if you pawn your stuff off, you can say it's gone up the spout.

I'm never gonna try to start analyzing that one.

I wouldn't. I wouldn't. But an interesting phrase, and I like it when anyone gives me a phrase that I'm not familiar with, okay. Or I should say with which I'm not familiar, okay. She usually drinks white wine and Caesars Caesars at possibly a Canada specific drink. Basically, it's a Bloody Mary with clam juice. No, that's a drink. I also known as Bloody Caesar or a clam digger or a bunch of other things. We clam diggers, the one I normally hear it by, you know, it's Clemont Hill, which I love saying that word, a color motto. It's not Komeito though. Like it's tomato tomahto is fine, but it's not Clamato juice.

That just sounds weird. Clemont Hill Yeah. With the accent.

Yeah. Yes, yes. I won't do it again.

Okay. Dave just put a monocle on while you said that.

I wish I wish we all know that the Mr. Peanut with the monocle is one of the most dashing figures and all of in all of whatever those people are called spokes, spokes characters. Right. I mean, like, Joe do you think about that you liked the Mr. Peanut with monocle simply dashing. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. You know, I was talking about this with labor who's the design the or graphic design team for the museum? And they took a freakin peanut, which is It's a it's a ridiculous looking thing. You know, I mean a peanut it's like it's like if you squeezed the hell out of a golf ball and like colored it beige and made it dirty. That's a peanut. You're like put a pop Pat. Give it a monocle, and all of a sudden it's like classy, classy. Amazing.

And on the far end of the spectrum, I think that very same conversation was grimace, who is the opposite of classy? There's no flashing grimace. Nobody knows what what the heck grimace is.

Now listen, by the way I don't want to get any negative culture we're not hating on grimace. He's not classy. Just not classy. Yeah, he's he's like that. He is like kind of prototypical schlub.

I mean I am also a prototypical prototypical slob. So not hating

now. All right, yeah. No hate. No hate on the grimace. Just not classy. Okay. Okay, she usually drinks white wine and Caesars I finished whipping up a batch. So by the way, if she's not gonna drink alcoholic drinks, and she likes Bloody Marys are those kinds of things. That's terrific because they don't have that much of a perception of alcohol. So like the hardest drinks to, to, you know, Master are the ones that are heavily alcohol flavored like bourbon drinks or things like that. So you know, if she likes things that are, if she likes, things like that, they're relatively strong flavored, you can easily make, you know, a virgin version of that. If you're going to use any sort of fresh plan product obviously, pasteurize the shit, pressurize the hell out of it. You don't want to get you know anyone sick, but the tomato juice that they sell has been, you know, heat pasteurized, and so it's okay. So you know, so you can use it. So I mean, that'd be an ideal, the white wine. Obviously you can't you know, drink the white wine but you could do any sort of you know, acidic products some people say like white cranberry juice, it's all filled with a bunch of different things. I mean, I think the key thing I'll continue reading the question maybe right good idea. He's he says, I've just finished whipping up a batch of your coriander syrup recipe which is very tasty with the one I use for the coriander Oh, fashions. But I was wondering if you suggest either some other recipes or somewhere to start looking for serious drinks, which happened to contain no alcohol and are easy to make at home. I tried making a peep sipping vinegar based on recipes for other fruits that I found online. But that was a bust. It just tasted gross. Any thoughts? I'm hoping to find something with enough complexity that will make it satisfying to sip for a long time. And I think that's the key, by the way, is the sipping for a long time because that's what you know, kind of separates an alcoholic drink that you don't pound too hard. At least you're not supposed to me I might but you're not supposed to. versus you know, you know, like a thirst quenching drink. Now on the one hand, the reason why coriander, the coriander syrup, especially if you make it spicy, or if you increase the spice level of a drink or the kind of spice impacted the drink, it tends to shift towards a more sipping drink. Right. So that's why the coriander syrup, which is more akin to like, take ginger ale, right. I love ginger ale. You don't pound ginger ale as hard as you pound Sprite. Right?

I don't pound sprite either.

But let's say you were going to Yeah, I mean, you don't pound it as hard as you pound seltzer. Yeah, right. You don't count ginger beer as hard as you pound ginger ale. Right? Right. So ginger beer, good candidate for non alcoholic drinks that you can sip for a while because you're going to take it in small doses. But the other key is, is that you can't do that by making something that you the reason you're taking small doses is that you don't want to drink it. Right. Which is why ginger beer is such a good candidate. And you know, if properly done, the coriander syrup, without with with making it into a soda with like some lime is a good candidate because it stays good tasting, but you take it in small doses, you're not like shebang, knocking it back. So, you know, you could do that. The but the other thing is that I think you know, it's very difficult having tried to do this for you know, the wife, you can make special drinks. The other thing you can do to make make drinks more sippable and I hesitate to is because I don't like these kinds of drinks myself, but it's to make them physically thick. So drinks that contain purees tend to go down slower, but if you like them at all tend to be enjoyable. And it's especially good in the summer months as they as they come up. So you can do like frozen things, things like smoothies. And you know, she'll feel good about the theoretical health benefits that she's getting from them. And I'll also be sipping them slowly. So I hope this is somewhat helpful. What do you think, Peter?

Did you have any bissap While you're in Senegal, Dave,

I had a whole boatload of visa

that is one of my favorite summer refreshing beverages and I'm wondering whether if you concentrated those flavors that could become something more sippable

Oh, yeah, well, so besides Good point. bissap is known by a bunch of different names. Roselle. Red sorrel, not to be confused with wood sorrel or herbs oil is high viscous flour And, you know, it's used in Africa where it's native, it's used a lot in the Caribbean and Mexico, where it's naturalized and makes a fantastic beverage. The BIS app that I had in Africa was of higher quality than the dried stuff that I get here. But I have used and stuff here and it's good you make like you make a tea actually make a delicious also, they make a delicious bissap jelly in, in West Africa, at least in Senegal. And it's amazing because it has a texture of apple butter, but with that really tart, acidic fruity thing. So I think this app would be great. make a tea out of it, sweeten it, and then actually bissap and ginger works and also bissap and mint works are all three Yeah, are all three together. And so like a combination of mint bissap. And ginger could make a really great drink that could go on sipping if you make it a little bit weaker than it's a pounder. And if you make it a little bit, you know, heavier and flavor then it's more of a sipper. But the great thing about it is, is that if you're a fan of the flavor, which I am, you don't tire of it when you're drinking it, you know, you can drink, you can drink a good bit of it. Good call, Peter. Good call. Alright. My other question is about coffee. I do not have an espresso machine and would not be able to justify the expense of buying any new equipment. We'd love to be able to make phone milk for a weekend coffee. I've tried to look for solutions on coffee geek and various other websites. But I've had no luck. I did find a video or someone seem to be able to make a decent phone with the little ones you can buy at IKEA. But I've been unable to replicate this either. Either with the identical gadget or the slightly more expensive one that cooks illustrated recommends, what am I missing? Is steam in a central part of the process. Am I not getting the right temperature or just using the wrong vessel to hold the milk? Is there a stabilizer that might help? I seem to be able to get a good foam in the milk is cold, but I can't seem to heat the milk up even moderately drinkable temperatures like 60 Celsius and keep the foam or the foam the milk at higher temperatures. The coffee geeks just laugh at me and say I am S O L? Any ideas? Yeah, I think you're Sol but here's the issue. It like many things. By the way. You know, Alex has another question on on, on coffeemakers. But you have to put that one off till next time. But the the deal is this. So the coffee coffee geek was one of the early websites that introduced me. So you know, those of you that have been making coffee for a while, you know, notice, like the latte art movement kind of came out of Seattle in the late 90s? I guess 1990s Is that right? I mean, it's hard for me to look back. You know, David Shomer, from the valachi was the first person I knew about who was widely talking about it, and I bought his book, but you know, whatever it's called professional barista techniques, whatever, where he explains it, and, you know, amazing stuff. But to get that a lot, you know, buy the latte or everyone knows I'm talking about her Latte Art, the pictures that you make by you know, doing the milk, and the highest form of it, you don't even touch the cup at all, it's just how you pour the milk mix. But in order to do it, you need a very specific texture of milk right? Now the theory is that that texture of milk is also the most delicious texture of milk, but called a microphone. And so there's a lot written in coffee geek about how to achieve microphone. And that particular type of microphone is produced by steaming, right? And trying to create that in any other way. I mean, you might be able to come up, or I might be or you might be someone might be able to come up with it with a similar textured product by doing a host of other things to it. But there's no simple way. Right now here's the question is that the best tasting foam? I don't know it's a taste of foam is espresso the best taste of coffee, I think it is but other people like other forms of coffee making. So what I would do is stop trying to make latte art style foam in any other technique and just find a foaming technique that you like that makes a taste that you like, you know, your I have very severe doubts that you're going to be able to without a lot of experimentation and we could stabilize it and whip it. But you know, the microphone is a very specific very dense bubble size, very wet foam. And you know, right I mean, you know, and just because you're different just because you can get a different result doesn't mean it's necessarily worse. You just have to use it a different way but I will think more about it and maybe talk about it more when I talk about your coffee question a coffee maker question later. John riper guy came in. And he last week unfortunately I wasn't here I was in Senegal and he gave us some really interesting hazelnuts. So I was real quick, nice. So hazelnuts. We all know hazelnuts a little rounded but they're not all around. There's a variety called the do chili. Hazelnut that is long almost looks ominous. It looks like Woody on the outside. So John dropped by some these are like these are like super like an old cultivar heritage, heirloom variety of hazelnuts. And he dropped by some roasted ones and unroasted ones and was talking about the what happened to the development of flavor and hazelnuts as they're roasted, so since I just got back yesterday I tasted them but I haven't had time to do a lot of experimenting. So next week, John, I'm going to go more into about these different things but you guys should take a look at these two chili. hazelnuts are supposed to have a thinner skin and therefore be less bitter than their their smaller, rounder brethren, but they're susceptible to certain diseases and that's why they're not growing much if you want to research it while I'm in touch before I can get back to you guys go to Holmquist orchards where they grow them in, in Washington. Okay. Robin writes in about meat grinders, Dave, please say some word about meat grinders. I'm primarily using a meat grinder for making dog food from chicken, turkey and rabbit parts, so I need something powerful enough to not bogged down, grinding soft bones and with a fill hole that will accommodate something as large as a chicken leg without me having to further invest in a meat cleaver to cut the parts that are small enough to fit in a shoot. I made the mistake of purchasing an LM number five 0.2 horsepower motor grinder sold by your local sporting goods big box store. It is underpowered. It is underpowered, the fuse had to be reset frequently, even though I'm not forcing to meet through and is overheating and smoking. It requires disassembly to unjam it was a waste of money is going back to the store tomorrow without breaking the bank. What do you recommend? It will serve me well, thanks for the brilliant radio show. All y'all Robin? Okay, here's the deal. So Peter, you might be asking yourself, why would they want to grow and grind the bones?

I am asking myself that very question.

I remember they're making dog foods. So the thing is dogs, calcium supposes there's a movement called the barf diet, which the acronym can mean different things like bones and raw food diet for dogs and you grind up the bones holes. So the dogs taking the whole thing cats also have to be careful not to do not to do with cooked bones. Because cooked bones are very sharp and can damage the insides of the of your animal. And then there's the debate of whether or not there's microbial problems do a raw food diet when you feed it to an animal. But I'm not getting to that we're getting into whether it right now I've never thought about this problem. But I did some I did some research. Turns out that the LCM that you looked at that you had the OEM number five quarter horsepower, one which sells on Amazon for 196 99 has a quarter horsepower power motor. It's pretty small motor. The good news about that grinder that you have you hate is that the gears are all metal. And so they're really tough. And that's all stainless all that's really tough, but that motor is underpowered, and so it's going to jam overheat, and the fuse will blow as or it's not really probably the fuse is probably the thermal overload in it. So that's probably what's happening. So the solution to that is they do make a larger motor one, they make a point 375 horsepower, which is only $70 more $267 You can go get. And that might be a solution. I've heard other people say that that one grinds chicken bones better. You know, then like, you know, if you without breaking the bank, that's the problem, the larger ones can do it. So the West in the West in number 22 Professional on Amazon for $551. Everyone says that grinds to chicken like nobody's business, right? But you know, that's well over twice, almost three times the cost of the one that you had. If you go on the on store on eBay. Now, if you look at the STX turbo force 3000 series like that STX turbo force 3000. They say it's 250 bucks, they say that it is 3000 watts. And they admit if you look at it's really interesting, actually, if you look at the things, the thing with motors of all types, is people, you have to ask someone how they rate it. So I'm assuming that when LTM is rating their motors, they're actually talking shaft horsepower power at the shaft, right, which is different from the input power into the machine, right? Because motors aren't 100% efficient. So it's a question of how you do it. One 740 Something Watts is one horsepower, right? So these guys say that the STX turbo four is 3000 is 3000 Watt, but that's a load of malarkey. That's, you know, that's the motor as my dad would always say, that's the motor like as it's about to explode from burning out, like when you're holding the shaft and plugging it in and drawing all the current that you possibly can and everything's blowing up and dying, right? Are peak impulse death powers, he calls it

amaizing Back to the Future. Doc, you

know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. So in reality, this 3000 Watt monstrosity is actually closer to three quarters of a horsepower in real life. But that's still significantly more powerful than the one you have. It has some plastic gears, but they claim that these plastic gears don't break. It does have a guarantee. It also has something you might be interested in called a reverse switch, so that you can reverse the machinery to unjam it without disassembling it. So if you do jam it, there you go. Now there are a number of people on the reviewing thing that say they've ground chicken bones, and then there's number of people who call BS on that and say sucker doesn't grind chicken bones that well, right? So what those guys say is that to really grind Chicken bones, you got to freeze D bone your thighs or legs, freeze the thighs breaking with a hammer and then grind a man, which is what they say to do. But clearly you don't want to do this because you don't want to cleave it up you say with a meat cleaver. So you know, I'm not sure where to go with that. But it is on Amazon, it does have a return policy. So you might be able to, you know, test your luck and it is even cheaper than the one you already had. Okay. Alex wrote in different Alex wrote in with questions about Moka pots, you know, Moka pots, Peter. Yeah, you know, the ones that you put on the stove and they're little they're like made out of aluminum usually. And they they make coffee, actually, you know, I used to use them there. Again, they're not espresso. People make that mistake. Mocha cup is its own kind of cup. It's not an espresso. So Alex has questions on the Mocha process, but I think what I'm going to do Alex is fold your question on mocha pots into the other question on coffee that the other Alex asked. And we'll talk about him both on the next show since apparently my time here is drawing nigh. Right. Yeah, right. Okay. So too quickly to rip through. Got some Twitter questions in Elliot Papendal writes in any problems with infusing shop, hazelnuts mean Celtic hazelnut, it's always happens, man, chopped hazelnuts into cream with an ISI. I mean, I don't know how much of a flavor your impact you're going to get off of just infusion without heat and isI because nuts aren't that porous. Usually you do a heat infusion or better yet, grind them and make like a nut milk. That's the way I would do it, grind and make a nut milk and then strain this stuff out. I think that's the best way you're going to go. I don't know that isI is going to be the technique to use of that. But of course, I'm probably wrong. As you know, Terry Tintin writes in Hey, have you ever tried creating your own arrow chocolate bar? No, I have not although actually that's not true. I mean, I've made the error to chocolate before with a with a vacuum machine but what I would do is go look at Heston Blumenthal has done a lot of work with that he has a recipe online. You need a vacuum machine and a way to set it set it in freezer, but it's not technically difficult. I've never actually done it though, but has since recipe is out there for all to read. So, you know, go check it out if you have more questions or problems on it. Hit me back on it. Peter, you got the Tony Haryana has a question in there about on the Twitter feed about freezing and thawing to increase or change the flavor of juice extraction, a freezing and thawing ruptured cells and so therefore will theoretically increase the yield of juice, but I've never done an actual test on it. I will look up over the course of the week. Hopefully whether or not whether or not there's any studies that I can publish then I'll talk about my experiences of the differences in flavor of foods like frozen thawed lemons, and also its effect on on stringency and tannin and things like persimmons, where you can clearly reduce the tannin and the astringency by freezing and thawing but that's slightly different from what it does in the juice. That's just the flavor change from overall freezing and thawing. And the other questions that you see on the Twitter right away.