Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

Today's program has been brought to you by fairway market like no other market and New York City institution that sells the best local, national and international artisan foods for prices that can't be beat. For more information, visit fairway market.com You're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you'd like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host live live. The back of Roberta's pizzeria in where's it Jack

says place called Bushwick Anastasia hates

it who won that that was le Pepin out right

now shirt went out in the mail yesterday, man. Nice. Nice.

Nice. Well joined as usual with Natasha hammer, Lopez, Jack and Joe in the engineering booth. Hey guys. Beautiful day out. Wish Anastasia hates. It's not that she hates the weather.

I hate the way people like the weather. Yeah,

yeah. Now you guys are getting a little bit of an insight here. A little bit of an insight and special guests in the studio today with us. Real Johnson who is a? No What's your UC Davis, you're in the Enology Department but you use studying right now bitters, correct?

Yeah, that's one of the things I'm studying. I do analytical chemistry and flavor chemistry on bitters and other things.

Right. And you are a a not a professional or semi professional. I mean, it dovetails with your profession, but you also privately are a flavor chemical collector. True or False? Very true. Yeah. And so like, how big is your collection? Now at this point?

A flavor chemical? Yeah, like in the lab.

We're just that you have around you have access to

probably 1000 Yeah, we started and

I visited a place called David Michaels, which is a flavor house down in outside of Philadelphia. And what's what factory was at right near was right near some factory that was making Nabisco holding place Melek Oreos True or False till you get in anyway. And they make some amazing vanilla. They're like I thought I knew something about vanilla and I talked to their vanilla guy. And then I realized that you know, I had not yet been born. In other words, like I had less. I had less knowledge about vanilla than an infant has about the world. As they're born, so anyway, so that we saw their flavor stuff. It's pretty amazing. mazing stuff. Any any personal favorites right now?

My real favorite aroma compounds?

Yeah, they like unusual ones. They don't give me any don't give me hexanol or any crap like that. Give me some

Hexamethylene Yeah, okay. I quite like rotundo that's the impact compound for black pepper.

What's the name of it? rotundone rotundo. And like rotund? Yeah. Oh,

yeah. 15 carbon sesquiterpene It's also in Surat wines.

Yeah, yeah. I love the word. Well, first everyone knows terpenes a great word, but SESQUI Yeah, that SESQUI to anything one and a half. Yeah, it's a great you know, it's like we need to we need to have like SESQUI Centennial is more often. Right? Totally SESQUI Centennial is are the are the bomb. Back when I was a kid? They actually were having SESQUI Centennial for things like that. Well, yeah, Civil War had no that's right now actually. SESQUI centennial, right. 150 150 Plus, let's

see. 11 Yeah,

that was right Sesquicentennial coming up was come came up on a thing when I was a kid was when some other war, whatever. And a big thank you out to co miles who's not only a supporter of our radio network, is this true or false? Jack? Oh, yeah, he is not only an incredibly, like, interesting guy. I met the cvwd class, super low temperature class, I will not reveal his history, for fear. But also now an incredibly generous, incredibly generous giver of the five volume Modernist Cuisine. Set.

Yeah, I'm gonna give them one of these.

It was awesome. And now I never ever again will be able to make the excuse. I don't own the books. So I can't tell you what they said. Right? I vow Yeah, I

guess you got to read them on that.

I vowed never to say that again. Very, very actual and real heartfelt. Thanks. Thank you very much. believe he lives in the Houston area right Houston. Anyway, I think so. And by the way, again, he's involved in NASA a little bit. I'm so excited this summer. We're late send me relatedness. Anyway, this summer, it says you're going down with us and we do the mango tasting. We're going to do the mango tasting again this year home again. Maybe Andy Ricker, the chef from puck Puck, good friend of ours, and we're going to go last year here. Two years ago Harold again I went to the fair trial which is the world's biggest collection of mangoes at least United States his biggest collection of mangoes and unlike a lot of other mango collections throughout the world, like for instance famous mango collections in India, or mango collections in Southeast Asia, the Florida one is very interesting because South Dade it's like south of Miami where it's the very tip where you can actually grow almost anything you can almost grow mangosteens not quite. I mean you can but Matt out in the open anyways. They specialize in having everything. So all varieties of mango and the people out there who their names Norris Liebman, Richard Campbell, I believe the two lead people out there. And they are mango nuts and jackfruit nuts. Last time we were rained out kind of and also, it just was a big, it was a big mess. There's a big mess the visit, we're gonna go again. And when I go down there, I'm taking the kids to Cape Canaveral. You like that? Because you know, Dax obsessed with rockets now? Yeah, he want yeah, he's like, I want to become some sort of a scientist astronaut. But we'll see. We'll see. You can do it if you want. We'll see. Okay. Now oh, by the way, Ariel, tell them about the special. The special chromatograph thing you have

this special chromatograph thing? Yeah, the the Franken GC. Yeah. Okay, so we have a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer, which you use for analyzing the volatiles responsible for aroma in a mixer or sample. But we have one with a switch and a cold trap that lets us basically remix all the volatiles from a sample or take a few out and have like an emission mixture and then see how that changes the aroma.

Now it's pretty badass, right? Yeah, yeah. It's the only one in the world. Yeah. And so who paid for it? Like, in other words, what research what research had money for it?

I think honestly, we built it from spare parts.

Really? Yeah. So this is one of the rare instances where you get to do something cool in a scientific context and don't need to get big industry to pay for it. Yeah,

we might have had a little bit of National Science Foundation or Jasper shields, which is like a UC Davis based environmental chemistry grant but Jastrow shield. Yeah, it's like some endowed thing.

Is that like a, like a space robot?

I think it's a person. I'm sorry. Yes. But But yeah, I mean, basically, it's an old, an older GC that we were replaced with a newer model. So we maybe spent like 1000 $2,000 on parts and then put it together

nice and and you weren't using that piece of code and I don't think but Ariel's the person who's doing the the GC work on this. Here's all showing that the torch tastes that we all had thought was a product of incomplete combustion was x is actually more likely caused by secondary combustion products from the high temperature of the torch true or false? Yeah, that's what it looks like. That's what it looks like. and also did some some work for us on what happens to lime juice over time as it ages. Correct? Yeah. And you want to give us a quick quick spin down on the findings

there. Oh, it's looking like rather than finding any specific oxidation products over the course of like four to 20 hours, we're actually seeing like an overall reduction in volatiles.

So you think and then Harold McGee? You know, it's always been saying that he thinks changes like this could often just be the reduction of stuff that's covering other stuff up rather than the creation of new crap.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. That's totally possible. You're like,

can you imagine like paraphrasing McGee with the words crap interspersed every other word? Like for those of you that know him? Like, he doesn't talk that way? Stately. Yeah, he doesn't. He's not like crap. I mean, it's like unless he's imitating me, in which case, in which case he does, he does a pretty good imitation of me. I think you'd never heard him do. He does my my jersey sometimes. Anyways, okay, let's do some questions. Before we get into some of the craziness. Like the woman crisis. I had a really bad dream about mashed potatoes last night. I had a horrible heart. Yeah, it was horrible. Like, well, so it was one of these situations where you're cooking dinner, right? And you let somebody else do something at your house for dinner. You know, it's a dream. Don't worry, people just didn't happen. And somehow they were mashing purple potatoes. I don't know how the hell that happened in my house. Because, you know, usually they don't, they're not they don't match that well, but whatever. So like it, whatever. They're mashing the potatoes. And then I looked at the mashed potatoes right before they were gonna go out because I've seen whether they're going to add butter or cream. You know, I have my thoughts about both. And it was simultaneously lumpy and gloppy and what have you. And then like when I put it into food processors, like I was like, you know, I own both a ricer and a food mill. I own both. I own several of each. I was like, oh my god, I woke up in a sweat. I was like, Oh, I woke up in the mashed potatoes hadn't been destroyed that way. That's but isn't that horrible. That's awful. It's horrible. But it reminds me of a very interesting recipe that Mills Norton used to make what he used to actually put potatoes with little excess liquid in a vitae prep, and blend them until every single starch granules completely ruptured. And it formed kind of a gluey, like potato gloop. And it was actually good which is a classic example another thing Biggie harps on and I do as well, of taking something that is normally a flaw and pushing it so hard it becomes a benefit again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, enough, enough of my gravy listeners

should send us their food nightmares too, if they have any.

Yeah, yeah. Les listeners, if you have any food nightmares, I don't mean actual food nightmares. Like, you know, you incinerated the chicken although I also appreciate those stories yet. You answer this question. I answer. I tried to prevent you from incinerating them and then tell you why they were incinerated. But yeah, if you have any actual like food like nightmares like that, it's like similar to the one where like you're trying to run away from someone and your feet turned to rubber. You know what that is? If your feet are asleep in the real life, you're in bed, your legs have gone asleep and then so your legs actually can't move properly when you're asleep. And your body somehow senses this and turns your legs to rubber. Yeah, yeah, that's my theory. But born born by the fact that I've woken up but I have horrible circulate what that is not about this. Okay. Okay, sorry. Okay. We have a question in we have a late name for the we have a late name for the Sears all they wanted to name it Salah hammer after us. Because it you know, looks like a hammer functional salamander and would be your favorite weapon of choice. So let's start to appreciate it. But as you know, we've already chosen the name. Okay. Ryan Santos. Right. Say and here's his here's a clear that typical cognitions question I wrote in last week about whether it was worth spending $400 To get all to get a 200 milliliter centrifuge. And I said No, I said, I don't think so. You know, no, I wouldn't say so. You mentioned the cheaper champion model, but mentioned I can get into the three litre range for about 1000 bucks. So far internet digging hasn't found me a model with three leaders for that price. Can you follow up on that comment with some suggestions for that price? Quantity? Thanks, Ryan Santos. Well, I don't know whether these guys are all tapped out or not. But look, the trick is this. The company that I buy my centrifuges, the manufacturer of my centrifuges is out of business because it's out of business. You can get fairly good prices on ones that are of semi recent origin, less than a decade old, right. And some of them haven't seen a lot of use and the advantages because they were somewhat common back in the day there are lots of parts available the company I use is Xuan which is a French company. Xuan was bought by thermo right, which is a large manufacturer of all kinds of scientific equipment, which is I guess it's a division of thermo fisher right or Thermo Fisher. Yeah. And so anyway, so thermo bought those guys and then discontinued there's one brand, right. So most people when they're buying new centrifuges, most of the chefs I know they're going they're buying hettich is what they're Buying I don't know why I guess they have a good price point or they know or like you know one buys one than the other buys one but I know Tony kind of Yarrow has hettich and Wiley both have had issues fairly small footprint. But but for a non refrigerated one I think you're looking at like seven grand and for you know, fully tricked out one you're probably looking closer to eight to 10 grand with buckets and everything like that swinging bucket, you want to go swinging bucket. We can get into that much later about why you would choose a swinging bucket or a fixed angle centrifuge. If anyone actually cares about it. I could talk for a long time about which one you'd prefer but anyway, in the kitchen, most likely you want a swinging bucket, just because the fixed angle rotors unless you have like a very special fixed angle rotor have very narrow throats on the on the on the containers that are in them. It's very hard to get the product out even though technically they Pelle it a lot faster than a then swinging bucket does. Okay, whatever again. I don't buy the used ones from Schwann can be very cheap. Now I used to buy them for a couple 100 bucks. I've talked about them enough. There's not that many out there. So you know if 10 People listen to me, then all of a sudden the price jumps in the availabilities go go down. That said there's a company called Ozark biomedical and there's somewhere in the Ozarks got helped me I think they're in Arkansas somewhere I think so yeah. And Ozark biomedical specializes in used and like fixing centrifuges, and one of the ones they carry is one, they often have reconditioned units, and they can run between 12 120 500 or 3000 bucks in that range with buckets. And like a 90 day warranty, which is probably good enough most gonna break within that period that's gonna break. They'll also make sure that your buckets are sterilized for you. So you don't have to go on like bleach rabies.com and get rid of everything out of it. And they make sure that your buckets aren't dinged up. So you're not going to have any like immediate fatigue fractures and a poorly handled bucket and they make sure that the rotors are good. I mean, the hazards, these these centrifuges that rotate at these speeds aren't they're not like ultra fuses or super speeds where you actually have a possibility of of what would you call it breaching the wall of the center? Few should there be a rotor failure, right? So you know, once you get into the much larger, much faster models that the energy contained is so great that you can throw even a large piece of equipment across and through a lab, you know, and there are plenty of pictures on the internet. internets have rotor failures in Ultra centrifuges. Now these units, as long as you get a newer unit that has the safety interlock, so you can't run it, well, you can but I'm not gonna run it with the lid open. You know, you're probably not in a life or limb death situation. That said, you don't want to have a rotor failure. And when you buy used, you don't know whether some knucklehead like threw the buckets around, you don't know whether or not they cracked it, you don't know whether they cleaned it with a detergent that is deleterious to aluminum, which is what these buckets are made out of. You don't know whether it's sustained an impact, you don't know anything like this. So sometimes I'll take a chance and I'll look at it and you know, I'll make a judgement. But I've been using centrifuges for a bunch of years and I had a bunch of people who had been using centrifuges for years look at my centrifuges before I started running them when I knew nothing about centrifuges. If you go with those aren't biomedical you won't be paying that much compared, you'll be paying like probably a third to less of what you would buy for the equivalent new model. And it's kind of guaranteed to work out of the box. And they're also very friendly. And we'll walk you through the parts of it if you have problems with it. And they carry motors and boards and buckets and all the replacement parts. Hope that they're helpful. Yes, yep. That's because new ones are expensive. I mean, look, look, I just had someone yesterday. Hey, Dave, what can I buy new centrifuge. I'm like, You bet. Why is it that we've been doing this for so long and we're still buying scripted? He's gravity's off the internet. Do you remember that? Like our new what's our New Year's resolutions? Does you remember? No duct tape on the box. I'm still a fan of duct tape the product but our box of crap that we show up with will not be duct taped together anymore. We're making the move to new banker's boxes. Whenever we're moving stuff around by ourselves for no reason. Other people move in? Well, I've learned that I wouldn't go that far. Please. I told you, it's like, it's Joey over there. I'm here. I mean, you don't have like, you know, when you're a musician, and you say every year you're like, man, next year, someone else is going to carry my bass rig. You know, I'm saying

get a van driver and oh, yeah, people are going

to carry our crap in the gigs that ever happened. No. No, it never happens. You always end up carrying your own crap. You know what, 42 still carrying my own crap. I kind of like I kind of like being able to do it kind of keeps you not being whatever. Anyway, whatever.

I have, like a lot of years of carrying my own crap together. That's what I just got from that. That's awesome.

Yeah, you know, you know what, like plenty of people I don't know or just you know, don't follow the route where you you know, make it a priority to have people carry it carry your crap for you. Like, you know, we always dream but never made it a priority. Look where we are. Anyway. Chad Drazen writes in a About this thing What the heck is this thing and he points to a link on smoke aroma.com Awesome website name right that is a pretty epic website name yeah you know what they make stops any idea with an arrow

anything Is it food or marijuana?

Wow good idea they should get into that business but they are pressured smoker manufacturers pressure smoker which I've never used the pressure smoker but they're like you can make you can make a barbecue barbecue ribs. They're not from around here so they don't sound like that. You can make a barbecue rib or like an hour like an hour flat. I don't really know that that's the case. You can make a soft rib with a smoke flavor in an hour. Oh, is this the thing where it cooks

the hamburger in like 12 seconds? Yeah. Is it like a pressure fryer?

No. Well, I mean presumably they they generate the smoke under like the entire system is sealed under pressure and then I guess they must use a compressor to evacuate evacuate the excess smoke I have no idea. I didn't have chance to look that up because it just just came to me this morning. But we rest assured we will check it out. People are interested in smoking in everyday environment people are like Can I smoke in my vacuum machine? Can I smoke in my Can I smoke in my clothes dryer? Can I smoke you know everyone wants to smoke and everything Kruger falls very true. Yeah. Smoke anyway by smoke Rama are the folks who make large pressure smokers and then in parentheses pressure smokers any good again, Chad I have no idea. I have no idea. Anyway. Okay, so the thing that the title of it you ready for this? Instant burger. Wow. You like that? Yeah, I wish we'd invented something with instant burger. Okay, so it cooks precisely measured burgers by that name. You're supposed to scoop it in like with a with a scooper. Delicious. Yeah. And you're not allowed to put salt on the burger beforehand for reasons that will become apparent but you can put in onions and bell peppers but if you do that you're not making a hamburger Listen to me people do not put onions and bell peppers in raw inside of your hamburger. I think it's a horrible idea. What do you think says onions or raw? I like a big thing of raw onion on top of my burger

if you put it inside the burger will just get like boiled. Yeah, right it's not tasty.

There you go. See take it from the scientist. No offense if that's the way you make your burgers. No offense. It's just like you offend everyone and say no offense doesn't help. But it does it does people rarely get offended. Okay, so it cooks a precisely measure burgers and 25 seconds without getting hot. Now it's not strict, strictly speaking true. It the burgers get hot. What they mean is there's no a lot of not a lot of excess heat pumped into the kitchen. Okay. It drives an awful lot of current. I think their manual says 30 amps or 30 minutes like 20 and I gotta look it up. It runs I have a regular 110 line. So I don't know if any 110 appliances it takes 30 So it's probably more like 15 or 20 Anyway, is this just an electric chair for burgers? Yes, it is. It claims to cook the hamburgers simultaneously inside and out and only cooks them to well done by design. There's a microprocessor that determines when it's done I suppose by measuring the current load how does this work? Love the show more questions for me to follow Chad raising from 50 licks LLC another good name 50 licks although Oh no, we're not gonna get into the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop. We already talked about that on the

air. We used to work at an ice cream shop called JP licks really?

Yank a plane to make a plane with licks. Yeah, was any good? Yeah, it was really good. Good. Good. Shut up. Okay. So yes, this is in fact an electric chair for hamburgers, and it works on a. So there's direct resistance heating, right? So there's there's different ways you can heat things. Okay? So one is by heating the air mirrors something this is how you know, ovens work. radiant heating by generating large amounts of IR that's how you know infrared broilers work French freelance work this year's own. by conduction, we, those things are all conduction in one way while radiation is not. But the other one, the regular air of it actually is conduction mixed with convection. Well, I'm not gonna get into it. But one way you can generate the microwaves right where you're actually causing friction by vibrating the molecules on the inside of a on the inside of the food. That's an internal cooking technique. Another way you can do it is to strap electrodes to something and pass a large amount of current through it, use the object itself as a resistor and then use the resistance of the food itself to heat the food. Right. And that's the that's the principle of ohmic direct ohmic you know, ohm the unit of resistance heating resistance heating. Now a lot of this has been tried to actually divert talk in the air stuff about the electric chair for lobsters maybe well there's this company in England to try to make an electric chair for lobsters to shock lobsters to instantly kind of stun slash kill them before you boil them and it's too wet plates and you pull the wet plates down and conductive and and it like fries a lobster but you need a very thin fry it Zorch is it's it's a nervous system. But you have to use a pretty I mean, I was using I tested it with kind of bad results because the therapist got bent in a weird way I use regular you know 60 hertz, wall socket 112 110 voltage with mixed results. I didn't think it was any more humane and didn't make the last year any more delicious than Just cooking in and less scorch marks on the carpus. But anyway, so this is a technique that was it was touted as a humane way to dispatch lobsters. And I didn't have good luck. But that said, electro stoning is a huge field in both large value fish like tuna, things like this and wave form and the way the current is applied is extremely important in terms of how effective it is. But that That aside, yeah, this is an electric chair. So what they do is, is you have two conductive plates, you you set the thickness of the plate with a spacer on the inside, you smash the thing down it squishes the burger flat, right. And in this way, you don't use salt because presumably it changes the conductivity of the meat. And they like a specific fat content. They say it's for juiciness, but I'm sure it's also to get a specific conductivity through the meat. You push it down. And from what I can gather on there on that kind of literature around it and some of the patents around it. It just passes a large electric current through it. I don't know it's probably measuring Yeah, how much load the burger is providing at the beginning versus the end. Therefore judging doneness based I guess on I don't know whether they're measuring denaturation or water loss or whatever. But it's like getting and done and it literally heats the burger by zapping it with the electric current. It's an interesting idea. Yeah. And the old models used to have a rare and a well done knob and they've removed it because it turns out that they don't want you to actually mess with it. And it's in other words, the people who will own it were burgers weren't buying the instant burger. It's the people that you know, didn't want to think about things that were buying the instant burger to the extent that here's what the here's their bullet points of how awesome they already know cooking oils needed. But you do need a hamburger that's, you know, 30% fat, whatever Anyway, well, it's one of those things no extra cooking oil is I guess what they what they mean? I mean, I prefer a burger with more fat. Like that's one thing I don't like about the whole foods hamburger meat. Is that that like 93%? Yeah, definitely. And horrible. Yeah, yeah. No offense, orphans. Normally no hood or venting needed because it's not on very, very long, right? Here's my favorite. No cooking skills needed. Sweet. Don't you want your hamburger stars made by someone with no cooking skills? Don't worry, we make it in a way that it doesn't matter whether they give a crap or not really, it could be a machine pushing the button here enjoy and cooks out calorie laden fat but retains the delicious natural juices that's just hokum. That's just crap. Yeah, don't buy that. And I'm gonna buy cooks out the calorie laden fat anyway. So I thought that was really an interesting and interesting thing. Resistive hambre apparently will also cook chicken breasts. As long as anything, you can squish flat between the two plates, and get good conduction all the way through. You can cook and it cooks it very, very quickly. I'm anxious to try one at some point to see whether I like oh, if you smash a burger flat, and cook the bejesus out of it. I don't really think it matters that much how you cook

it? What does it do to the outside? You know,

it looked brown on the website. But it's you know, it's hard to say and I don't really know how much this thing cost. I mean, like I I'm a fan of a bunch of different burgers. If you're gonna have a thin smash burger, it needs to have plenty mucho grease. And then basically what you're saying is I like the flavor of a beef crust wallowing in Greece with hamburger fixings on it and maybe like a little bit of meat in the middle that's, you know, still a kind of meat. Right? Is this true or false? Am I wrong? Yeah. And if you'd like a thicker burger, it means you actually want some sort of like, you know, the texture or whatever. I see both. I see both sides. But Nick's Alaris you know, hamburger guru. He likes to smash burger I think as as well does. Josh Ozersky, I think believes I think so slash burger fan. Modernist Cuisine, not so much they like that they like the big poofy open like parallel string of meat parallel string of meat burger. Yeah. Okay. Okay, should we take a break? Jack? I can't see that. I can't see the clock behind the giant Modernist Cuisine. Okay, we're gonna take a break, come back as US

Hi, I'm Steve Jenkins from fairway markets. You know, there's no more telling aspect no more revealing virtue of a group of people having evolved in a lovely way than how they feed themselves, how they entertain, how they put food on the table. What they put on the table heritage Radio Network provides the clearest evidence that there's hope for us yet heritage radios like fairway market and that we both care deeply about what you're having for dinner tonight. Heritage radio network is not just about food, though. Every time I tune in, I learned something about things other than food to architecture design, stuff like that. But from where I stand, I still say if you can't eat it, what's the point? For more information please visit fairway market.com.

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in the nation. Welcome back. Welcome back. Putting your shoes by the way. Mark Ladner good friend of ours Mark Ladner is doing for the heritage Radio Network on April 27. When is that? That's like a week and a half. We're gonna have is doing an Abruzzi style Italian barbecue on Saturday April 27 between six and nine. Where is it going to be so as you know, he's gonna be here not sure not sure. Anyway, Joe, you know where it is.

I am gonna have to do some research but I'll get back to you.

But the beers by Harpoon and the music is by Herbert, spiffing, spliff, LinkedIn, spliff, LinkedIn, I wonder whether he enjoys some of the herbal medicine,

no comment on that one.

And you can go to Italian bbq.eventbrite.com to buy your tickets for $65. And you know what's worth the ticket price on on people is if you go look at the image they have for it. It's the it's not Mark's whole face. It's just a special Ladner glasses. Special Ladner glasses does, what are your thoughts on the special Lehtinen glasses? Getting a shake of the head again, getting a shake off pitcher is shaking off the Ladner glasses comment? Yeah, anyway. Okay. By the way, it is still time to call into question to send 184972128 That's 714972128 Got a question in on soda bottles a Jeff can off at Jeff 2486 on the Twitter says any safety issue with reusing old soda bottles multiple times for the carbonation system that you outline we're talking about when I carbonate things, I use soda bottles. Usually, I use 20 answers for test batches. I use one liters at the bar, one and a half and two liters for events where you know you're gonna pour a lot out. soda bottles are made of PE T. Right PE T P maybe what are those things, one of those? One of those things? And you know, I use a multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple times. And is there a safety issue? Not that I'm aware. I mean, I don't believe that they have similar issues to PVC, where you get non PVC lexan related things where you get you cook it in the dishwasher and you get to like detergents plus eight plus heat equals releases nasty chemicals. I don't think that's the case. I think they're fairly neutral. I never put them in the dishwasher. I just do a hot water soap rinses and let them dry out. And I'm not aware of any safety issue. The reason I think a lot of times people don't want you to reuse it is kind of bacterial reasons. But you know, we're putting carbonated stuff in them and alcoholic stuff. And we're washing them very thoroughly in between and all the time in between they're, you know, they're either dry, or they're in a fridge with alcoholic beverage that have carbonated, which are very bacteriostatic and don't you could get yeast, but they're not pathogens, so they're not going to cause problems. Not health problems anyway. And so yeah, I'd say from that standpoint, it's safe, you want to make sure that you use me you could tell when they start to kind of go south on you and certain newer bottles have like outer layers, I think that are laminated on for, you know, gas barrier properties. But I'm not aware of any safety issues. If you use bottles that are not intended for carbonation, they can explode. So for instance, if you use Fiji water with the goofy square bottles that that made the millions of dollars that goofy squirt bottle but if you use the Fiji water with the with the goofy square bottle, and you carbonate it can explode I remember once so I'm this kind of guy where where I asked once I asked twice and then I just scream around in Britain and like break craps is true or false. That's three times three times. It's why I only ever once got the lady I only ever asked three times, you know, found my wife got married done right now, but normally it's like I'm like, where's the bottle? No response. Where's the bottle, no response. Wow. And then just grab the Fiji bottle which is there and I filled it full of course coffee and I was carbonating with nitrous to get the nitrous feed you know the nitrous oxide which gives a creamy feel and brings body back to coffee without giving the that kind of that prickly sensation that you get up carbon dioxide and boom, it blows up and sprees coffee in like in you know like books all around the room. So like I had a line painted across me of coffee. And there was a line all around the room. In this tiny is before we were in the trash room stars for a while I was housed in a closet in the amphitheater. And so the entire closet in the amphitheater had this is back to the French culinary had like a line of coffee around it that lasted years they could never get that thing off. Maybe they repainted over dimensionally. So the answer is is that they also if you heat the bottles with very hot stuff, like if you're trying to do like let's say you were trying to do a gel and fluid gel, you need to carbonate it when it's very hot. Aside from the problem that it's hard to get carbonation and things when they're hot because the hotter it is Less co2 wants to go in there. Those bottles start losing losing their structural integrity, somewhere probably in the 70s or 80s Celsius. 80s. Nice in that range, they lose their structural integrity and they can start to balloon out on you, which could be a safety issue, because if it explodes when it's hot, it's spraying hot crap everywhere. It's doing more than ruining your jacket. But other than that, I'd say pretty safe. You heard anything? Aereo?

I haven't heard any mishaps. Yeah, yeah, that might mean

like chemical safety, anything? I don't think so. But you want to make sure they're not very good gas barriers over the long haul. So you don't want to store a carbonated beverage and think that it's going to remain carbonated in perpetuity. Right. Another problem with plastics in general. Now, these plastic bottles are designed not to do it too much. I mean, there's they're chosen not to do this, but like the plastics can do what's called scalp flavors. So especially if you have oil based flavors that are in there anything that has kind of a hydrophobic component on it, that that can absorb into the plastic then the plastic can take on a smell, which then gets transferred to your next batch. And also it can it can remove enough flavor from things it's called scalping flavor scalping, that you alter the flavor of your product by the absorption and like you get this especially in sodas you'll notice we like low quality sodas with high levels of suspended oils and grape. Orange you'll see the bottles are actually discolored which is why and also things like root beers tend to leave aromas in the bottle that are hard to get out. Which is why when I'm carbonating I prefer to buy seltzer bottles because they come neutral just for what it's worth, which is probably nothing. Okay. Next question in from wine hacker on liquid nitrogen from Ruth Hello, Dave. Mr. Atia Jack and Joe. He didn't know you were going to be here. That's okay. Yeah. Okay. Love the show almost through all the back episodes now that I have that out of the way I have a couple of questions. I send the stash an email a couple of weeks ago with some questions about the general use of ln and a bar time environment. She seems to have ignored it which is fine. Well, wine

Your name is wine hacker. My email recognizes you as spam. Wow. As you decided to name yourself wine hacker. Found it buried in 900 Other spam emails.

Oh, wow. See, this is why we call it a hammer like now you know why? Why Macker you're getting you're getting a little taste. He just got schooled. You know, it's it's very instructive. I want people to get a little taste of what it's like. When she's not on the air. Like that's like a little like, like peek through the veil of what it can be like anyway. One hacker moderated the comments with she seems to have ignored it, which is fine. I often ignore myself to very good like self deprecation. Since we are closer to the date of our event. I also have some questions about vermouth. Sorry I have so many questions at once. I hope you can feel free to to break the answer to parts I don't dominate the show, whatever. I'm just gonna do it ready. They do it. The winery where I work is a union wine company in the Willamette Valley, Oregon. You're familiar with those people area? I've heard of them. Yeah. Good things.

Yeah, I've never tried this stuff, but I've heard of them. We

will be having an event in a couple of weeks. The theme is speakeasy go ahead and make fun of us for being so original ie not original. I said I don't have the energy. I only have a certain amount of energy. Do you have energy make fun of speakeasies? She's all tapped out she's still tapped out with the anger for being called out on air that she has no morning. You know, anger to make fun of us. Like why for the whole day? Well, I don't know about that. You'll be you'll you know you'll get a Diet Dr. Pepper. No, Dr. Pepper, I drink whatever. Don't get me started. Okay. Once you get some caffeine after the show, she'll get our anger back. Don't worry. We're going to move things around the seller set up a bar rent some furniture and other era appropriate props to fit the theme. When I began to think about drinks we might serve in addition to our wines, I immediately thought about a podcast a couple of weeks ago and decided to make our own vermouth. We will probably try to keep things fairly simple and offer two drinks. Manhattan and Martini are probably front runners. They're delicious. Partially since they both use vermouth, though I will need to make a red and a white vermouth. Anyway, one thing I'm thinking about using liquid nitrogen, so let's do the let's do the vermouth section first, because we have to go into liquid nitrogen but then go back to them in terms of Vermouth. We started looking at commercial examples trying to find a couple of benchmarks we looked at for examples Carpano Antica Dolan Rosso Dolan blanc blanc blanc Blanc de Blanc and imbue in Oregon made product the Carpano stood out above everything else that we liked some of the herbal aromatics of the Dolan Rosso, the Dolan blanc was very nice, though seemingly really relatively simple compared to the other three, if you had very interesting aromatics probably using pine fir or something similar. Are there any other commercial examples you suggest we look at? Currently, I think we will try to make a sweeter read and a drier white. Well, before I get into the other things that you write, yeah, I would look at Martin Letty Rosa Marta Leddy is, you know, I had it first maybe three, three years ago, three, four years ago, I started coming into New York as far as I can tell, and it's very Very good completely different mouthfeel thinner mouthfeel and different kind of aromatic setup from Capano and not played out yet which is good you know what I mean? Like it's it's like people know about it but not a ton of people know about it so you can still be kind of the first kid on your block to have it as far as I know it's good you know made by the car panel people put a message you know try that out and then on the white side I guess classic you know you should try no brat but you know, I don't use it much. I actually use stolen quite a lot from my from my white. I like the Dolan Blanc and they're stolen dry I actually and I like that they're sweeter one better the blanc I tend to tend to use it more than I do the dry but not for martinis. You know what I mean? Yeah.