Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

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We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

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Hello and welcome to cooking issues this

is Dave on your life.

A second time I've done that too. Sorry. No problem

from averted pizzeria in bah bah bah bah bah bah bah Bushwick, Brooklyn. We are not joined with Natasha hammer Lopez. She's OBO. We are not live not in the studio. She is called in to send 18497 to one eight. That's 74 972128. And you can too with all of your cooking related questions. So Natasha, Jack and Joe here in the in the engineering booth as always. Hey, gentlemen. Hello. So Natasha has lost all credibility with the cooking issues in the heritage radio team because we've heard her talk a big game about how much she hates this springtime weather. Oh, no. Oh, oh, oh. Oh, hates the springtime weather. Hey, springtime people hates people when they liked the springtime weather. And where are you right now on a Saturday.

I'm at the beach. But I'm so happy that I'm not in New York because I don't have to see everybody and their flip flops and the hipsters on their bikes and all that stuff. You're at the beach seeing all that what the hell is a different? No, no hipsters here. Zero hipsters.

So are you so she is in Rhode Island. And are you familiar with the actual full name of Rhode Island? Anastacia? No. Well, it is the well, it's the smallest state in our union. However, it has the longest official name it is the state of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations. We were that well, no, it wasn't. Yeah, it's like it's like it wasn't enough just to be the smallest. They also had to like tag the biggest name and then they shaft. The shaft to Delaware. Delaware is like almost almost the smallest but we got no sales tax. I think that's kind of what Delaware said. Right? I changed their name to like Delaware of Delaware and the Delaware Delaware plantation because that would just be copying. Right. Right. Yes. So is it? I assume it's nice over there. Although, you know, I would hate it.

Yeah, you would hate it. I'm not on it. I'm away from the sand. So

yes, for those out there. Big. I like the idea of a beach. I love the beach in the wintertime. But the Sun is my mortal enemy. Anyway. Okay, we got some questions in from Ryan Santos regarding centrifuge. Hey, Dave Anastacia, customer who recently retired from medical equipment sales gifted us with an unused centrifuge he had in his storage, it's small and runs fine. But as missing the containers for the inside, though some research through some research, the maximum this machine can take is four by 50 milliliter conical tubes. And as you're probably aware of those four small tubes and adapter are not cheap, four to $500 In total, obviously, with the quantity limit, we won't be able to use, you know, the, the amount they can spend on it at one time, we won't be able to use it for any real practical production use, because four times 50 milliliters as you guys can do in your head maybe is 200 mils, which is a small amount is there any small specialty use that would warrant spending this kind of cash at that quantity will hardly yield anything, even just for fun personal use? Well, four to $500 is a lot to spend on the tubes for a 200 mil machine. Now if I didn't get a chance to to thermo scientific IUC Central co2, I didn't get a chance to look at these specific specs on that machine. But let's just say for the sake of the sake of argument that it can do, you know, three to 4000 G's and it has a doesn't have like an R anywhere in it usually refrigerated centrifuges have like a letter RNA source, it doesn't have a fridge. So you're going to spending $500 to be doing 200 mils. Now 50 mil tube is a lot for 250 bucks or 200 bucks or whatever, you can go on amazon.com and buy one that does that does 100 mils at a time half that for like halfway, but the small tubes that it uses the smaller what's the one that we use? sighs what's the name of it? Again? You have one to do remember?

Oh, yeah,

I'll have to look it up a champion something right? It's a chair. Anyway, look at it. You know, that one's only a couple 100 bucks. And it's new and you can almost like get rid of it when it's done. 200 mils is not going to be enough for large production runs, I would see if you can get it cheaper, if you actually have the metal tubes and you're just looking for the bottles, then you know, you can get away with cheaper or not using it all. But I personally would be hesitant to invest $500 in something that can do 200 mils, if you have the space to get a larger size one because, you know for $1,000, you can get a really good condition, three liter unit, you know, like 1000 to $1,200. So I know I would be hesitant. But on the other hand, if all you have is $500 and you want to get into centrifuges is the kind of thing where, you know, if you don't have a centrifuge yet and you want to take the plunge, then anything you can do to get you into the centrifuge business is going to eventually be good for you. Because I've never had someone who's gotten a centrefeed It's like there's a couple things like that. It's like the Vita prep. It's like an immersion circulator. No one's ever like, damn, I didn't use that. That sucked. You don't I mean, it doesn't happen. There are other pieces of equipment where I can see a little buyer's remorse when you're done with it. But if you're buying a centrifuge for commercial use in a restaurant, or at a bar, it will pay for itself so long as you use it right and and you know, use it for menu items where it's going to save you big money on yield on your expensive items. It's going to make money back so if it takes $400 to get you into the into the centrifuge thing so that you can then eventually go buy your three liter, then I think in the end you win. What do you think says? Yeah, I

think that's good. And then it's called the champion II 33 benchtop centrifuge on Amazon.

We gotta get we gotta get Buju Buju Banton to rep that a singing champion walking champion for that centrifuge. I think we could put those two guys to get there down in Georgia, Florida somewhere. And I think when he's in the US, he's down there. That Well, I'm saying I think that's where he got arrested down there. So maybe they can arrange something. Does anyone knows Buju Banton still in jail? With those cocaine charges trumped up does anyone know? Does anyone even know who I'm talking about? I'm gonna Google it. All right, very good. Okay, so there you have it now. Oh, by the way for those of you out there we decided for the torch to go with the name Sears all because it's dosha does it see are some things No. Most things? No. So if you have anything choose anything if you have that will it's clear that yes, so it's pretty much a Sears all Yes. Sears all? Yeah, all right. Yeah, not Sears some that'd be a terrible name Sears some would be like the worst name in the world but Sears all that's a strong name. However. Natasha He still has a soft spot for us up for all searing eyes. So she says it under her breath all the time. She just walks around mumbling and she you know, in, in, you know, 30 years she's gonna be that she's gonna be that lady wandering around the Lower East Side mumbling or Hell's Kitchen mumbling that's gonna be her and I still refer to it as the Sally Sears all because I liked the word Sally, but you know, there you have it. So that's the name and shot some video so look for some video up on the blog soon showing techniques on on how to use it and kind of what it's good for. Now can Ingber longtime listener, supporter of Mo fat? I don't know if he's a supporter of the radio network or not? I don't know. But a supporter of the museum food and drink and a longtime listener writes in and is excited about the series all but has these questions. One, what does this product do that an inexpensive widely available and time tested electric paid stripper will not do? If if a lower temperature is key? Is it possible that a home cook might be better off with a lower temp on a paint gun? I have used the paint gun and I think it's it's a there's a couple things I don't like about it one they're actually not cheap. Like paint stripping guns are like you know, you think that they're like 20 bucks, they're not they're like 80 bucks, or more. And so they're actually we mean they're more than what we hope to sell this unit for. We don't know what we're going to sell it for because a lot depends on how much it costs for insurance and shipping and boxing and all that other stuff. But we're hoping to have it be price competitive with those guns. Secondly, those suckers require a cord which I detest having a cord running around, they don't heat up as quickly as you'd like. And it's kind of hard to judge I've used them before they just don't do the same thing it's just not the same thing. They're just not the same having having used those things now I like those higher guns for for other things for heat shrink tubing man those things cannot be beat. I used to have one someone stole it didn't even notice that happens with me. I'm like I learned something that people stuff and then they just steal it from me. Yeah. equipment and techniques.

The ladder makes me the most.

Just kidding. I'm just messing around with you.

You're not getting

caught whole ingest half in earnest anyway. Okay, too. This is Ken asking more questions what I get the same effect. If I held an $8 replacement camping light gas mantle with tongs in front of a torch. I mean, leave aside the bonus thorium on my chickens, Ken Well, for those of you that don't know, they what they do is they take a think it's, I don't know what the fiber is, but it's a fiber to fiber that they weave into cloth. This is how they make those really bright gas lanterns for camping. They take a cloth, they put some like a very high tip refractory fiber in it and they dope it with thorium, which is, you know, a substance and then when they when they like fire to it, the fabric burns away and the mantle becomes exceedingly fragile. And then the whole sucker incandescent like a weasel when you when you light it on fire. And that's how those mantel based gas lamps work. Now trick with that is, besides the awesome thorium, as you point out, mantle is quite small and exceedingly fragile. And also, like, you know, they're not Yeah, just excuse me wouldn't work the same way the bike today, which is why you hear the incredible hacking, coughing every once in a while, and I inhale some more that cement, you know, that cement place does, yeah, it's like you make it all the way here and you're fine. And then like a block from Roberto as you inhale, like a lung full of cement dust, and then you're cracking wheezing for the rest of the day. Anyway, so I don't think would work for that reason. Secondly, when you have tongs and you're shooting at something, you know, you tend to lose a lot of heat tobacco spray, which is why we have the cone. The real trick of the whole device here is an incredibly low thermal mass such that the sucker heats up very, very quickly. But doing that with a material that maintains its structural integrity and strength at the elevated temperatures that we're talking about, and they're quite hot, the inner screen, the outer screen probably only gets up to like, oh, I don't know like 1300 Fahrenheit or something like that. But the inner screen probably gets up closer to like 1700 Fahrenheit or something like in that range. So it's right at the upper level of even with the metals we're using can do and in fact, we're still playing with the alloys there. So those mantle is extremely fragile. This thing needs to be more kind of bulletproof for kitchen. Use. Yes does. Yeah. Yep. Number three. Are you doing anything about stability hardware store propane canister is comfortable to hold and has a large capacity but is inherently unstable. Don't I know it which is why we have a patent pending on a clamp that not only holds the propane canister when you're using the sizzle, but also holds it when you're using a regular torch which I think is inherently dangerous in any effect in any way anyway, okay. Hardware store propane canister is a printable whole large capacity but inherently unstable, with a small base and a high center of gravity. The heat of the usual Bernzomatic nozzle nozzle is dangerous, but I suspect that the ignition level temperature dissipates pretty quickly adding this salamander the Sears all to the top makes the total package copier and perhaps retains a dangerous temperature level that is a serious risk in a busy commercial kitchen and a nightmare for consumer use while it's finished whole thing and I'll get into it because this is like one of the main things that we're addressing so I mean it's good as someone asked and I can talk about here Okay, so as the last point on the danger I'm of two minds when it comes to Dave's tinkering the heath kid customer me by the way for those of you that you know, I don't know if we have young listeners out there he's kid was a company back in the day that became well known after World War Two for supplying parts you could build things like or kits, you could buy things like oscilloscope when I was a kid they sold a robot they have like, you know, anyway, so like amateur electronics like what you know what all the Arduino kids are doing now like used to be Heath kid, but you know, anyway, whatever. Okay? The Heath key customer me is amused by what Dave by days hacking of saying electric pressure cooker. What could go wrong in joking friends, but the lawyer in me is more than a little apprehensive, especially when he posed instructions on the back to that's back on the pressure cooker. Although to be fair to me, I said do not do it. Remember that does. Yeah. And that was the first sentence you wrote in that story. I was like, do not do this. It like, you know, do not do this. By the way, that pressure cooker still runs? Well, I've not had a problem with it. So again, don't modify your pressure cooker to get to the actual 15 psi that God wants it to be at. Even though I highly recommend only cooking with 15 PSI pressure cookers and it's theoretically possible to take the Cuisinart electric pressure cooker and make it to 15 psi. I have to urge you to not actually modify it according to the instructions I posted on the blog. Right. That's right. Hey, Dave. Yes,

I have two things. So Bucha Bonton is in jail until 2000 are Yeah 2019. And also you have a car.

Oh, all right. Well, let me just finish this question and then I'll take the caller and then I'll answer the question. Okay, great. Por Buju was was it was it cocaine Yes. Cocaine. Yeah. In Florida. I believe so. Alright. Okay. Okay, but the lawyer me is more than a little apprehensive especially when he posts instructions. This here's all probably be considered a consumer product and a manufacturing seller Simpson serious liability, or at least a likelihood of consumer injury lawsuits, win or lose good luck and expect to invest but just in time as BAMs no mukou immersion circulator seems to have overcome some design and manufacturing issues and is on the verge of production now delayed from last December. As I write verge listened carefully, and you'll hear the derisive laughter I get from my wife and friends. Wow, is that a slap down on on we bought it is a slap on the we pop? Hey, you know I'm a big fan of that we pop we pop chillin in, in Boise in Thailand now. Anyway, so I'll get back. I'll answer that question on safety and the Sears all after this caller caller you're on the air.

Yeah, Dave had three unrelated questions here. Cool. First one on pickling. The reference everything I read about it. I gotta change room to him here with the kid. Everything I read on pickling says that if you hit 4.9, on the pH, that that sort of intrinsically safe pickle.

Okay, you mean regardless of salt content or anything?

Well, that's or at least you can if you get the 4.9 you can go with a reasonable salt content. Right. Okay. I mean, clearly, if you put enough salt and anything said, Oh, yeah. But does anybody make a test strip for that?

Oh, for that, for that explicit number? Yes. Geez, you know, that's a that's a good question. You'd think that they would, I mean, but the thing is, with the test strips, pH meters are really not that they're not that expensive anymore. I think you can get one now. Like, I think, you know, you know, are you familiar with X tech?

Well, I mean, I'm very familiar with Fluke X pack is sort of the lower line company. So like, is there a you're telling me that um, flukes pH meter or somebody's like that, along with the price of a decent used car?

No, well, no fluke is, like, that's the thing, like so you're gonna pay for, you're gonna pay for quality, you know what I mean? So if you're going to use it, if you're going to use something like that, and I know more about multimeters than I know about pH, test pH testers, right. But if I'm, if I'm an engineer, and I'm going to go out in the job site, and I know things gonna get dropped, and my buddy who doesn't know how to do anything from a hot rock is going to take it and it's going to stick the probes on something weird. I'm gonna go with the fluke, right? Now, if I'm just at home, for those who don't know, we're talking about Fluke is a well known and trusted brand of test equipment. You know, and they have a characteristic look and you know, a fluke when you look at it across the room, right? Okay, so we're on the same page. Now, I used to be the kind of guy that would only ever only ever buy quality equipment because I knew that if I didn't buy quality equipment, it was gonna come back to bite me somehow that's at some point, I would assume that I own something that worked. And I would need it right then and it wouldn't work and I'd be let down and it'd be worse than having nothing at all. That's just my general experience. However, as I age, I realized that sometimes it's okay, if you have one application, you know, it'll work for it. And you know, you can be ginger with it, you're not going to take it out in the job site, and it gets relatively good reviews, then you can go ahead and get the cheaper one. And so with something like a pH meter, I think you could probably get away with something from x tech at like less than less than half of what you would pay for, you know, the brand new trust that we'd I don't know whether you can believe I don't know whether you can go that same route or not. Or like whether it's not in you to buy a piece of equipment that you don't trust

it at any rate, X tech is generally adequate for the once a month, I'm going to do this

yeah, right. And, and, and I think, you know, I've owned a couple of their products. And I try to remember if I ever had a problem with one, or whether I've ever heard that they were unresponsive to stuff great. The problem with pH meters in general, if you've never had one is that you need to keep what goes wrong with them is that the especially the inexpensive ones you use, I don't have the glass tip ones, which is, you know, the kind that like a lot of people have, I have the ones with a little like metal thing and it's a shield at the bottom, it actually does a couple of different things, it also do TDs and you know, a couple other measurements on it, you have to keep the cap wet at all times, if the if the probe dries out the probe shot, and then you have to buy another replacement tip for it. So that's the one caveat, you need to buy the probe, and you need to buy the buffer solutions. And if you calibrate it, right, you know, it's it's a good investment, and you just got to make sure that you there's a little sponge inside the cap, and you got to make sure that sponge stays wet so that the probe doesn't dry out and get and get ruined. And you know, I don't know of any reasonably priced one where that's not the case. But I've had one for several years. And it's still working for me. So, you know, take again, I wouldn't do it if I was doing it professionally, but it served me okay.

All right. And then the specific thing that led me to this question. I make this Vietnamese hot sauce. Basically, it's 1/3 fish sauce, 1/3, lime juice, 1/3 sugar, and then I just mandolin, some form of hot pepper in there until there's no more room left, right? And if you leave it on the fridge for a week or two, it seems to pick up beautifully other than buying a pH meter. Is there any way to like, be relatively sure that if I want to kill somebody?

Yeah, so it's like one 1/3 line you said and 1/3? Line

1/3 Sugar 1/3 fish sauce, the fish sauce is 1500 milligrams of sodium per tablespoon?

Yeah, well, you know that, you know, the fish sauce isn't going to go anywhere. Lime juice is not going to support too much growth, sugar is going to be reducing the water activity. So the real question is, is what's the weight ratio of the product to the to the pickle? Now? You know, I don't know whether the salt level there is sufficient to inhibit anything but like to get does it get a lactic taste? After a while you're getting some actual fermentation? Yes, yeah. And

like you can you can see the peppers, you know, the peppers go from bright green, it's like they absorb the first sauce and just get a very subtle, different flavor to them.

But then it does, it does actually ferment out and you get lactic acid bacteria in there? I think so. And you're probably fine. I mean, like, you're just jumpstart, you know, by lowering the pH initially, you're then selecting for more for lactic acid bacteria to grow rather than other nasty stuff. So you know, I think you're, I mean again, like I would get the pH reader and test it, but I wouldn't feel too nervous about it. I'm not gonna I'm not going to come out and say that's a safe thing because I haven't run the numbers or looked at a system or gone and checked any data on the on the web, but I mean, I feel I would feel comfortable serving to my family is put that way.

Okay. Fair enough. Separate completely separate question. You were talking the other day about pizza steal?

Oh, yeah, no, I've never used one now Chris Young was talking to you about it. They have someone in Massachusetts making it

Yeah, I remember really interested in buying one but if I do I'd like to use it for a few things besides pizza. Is it thick enough not too warm if it's heated unevenly or is it this question but like I can get my grill up to ridiculous temperatures right? If I turn the rotisserie burner on to the distributors radiating down from above at the same time the grill is going forward from below and I mean it gets hot in there like 700 and something degrees right. But I'm worried if I do I'm afraid to do it to a ceramic pizza stone that way because I know the dang thing will crack. Oh, you tried it? No, but I mean the ceramic is typically not like to be heated unevenly.

Yeah, no. It's too,

it's a quick experiment I've refrained from doing. So I mean, clearly the steel is not going to crack, do you? How do you have any feel for how likely it would be to take a permanent war?

Okay. I haven't thought about it. However, I'll I'll say this. You're going to buy it from the guy in Massachusetts, he's making it with the Modernist Cuisine label on it.

Yes, that is my opinion cost about 75 bucks. Okay.

So I don't remember exactly how thick it is. But remember, the whole, the whole McGill on that sucker is that it's thick enough to store up enough thermal energy to put a wall up into your crust. Right? Right. So you're gonna have some inherent stiffness from just the fact that it's a thicker material. But the other the other good news is, is you're not heating it up to like a cherry red, you're not like putting on like an oxy acetylene flame on it and melting it out, it's probably gonna take quite a bit of energy to work that out, as opposed to like, you know, a black steel pan, which is incredibly easy to warp on a range, right? Yeah, and you're probably going to have a more widespread out heat pattern than you would on a range if you're doing it on a grill. But the good news is this, I don't know that guy in Massachusetts has never met him never spoken to him. However, I have spoken to Chris Young about him when they were starting that project, because he was here on the radio show a year or so ago talking about it. And the fellow that's doing it is an engineer. And my, you know, and I'm biased, because I got a family full of engineers. But my, my feeling is that it's probably something that he's tested. Because, you know, engineers are like that know what I mean?

So it's worth calling them and ask them question,

I would call I would call him personally and ask a question. My impression is, he's not like some giant conglomerate. He's a human being. But he has a real company that does other stuff, like a bigger company, I believe is a metal fabricator or something like that, or has some sort of large shop, but the guy who spearheaded that at that company might be the owner not is an actual human being.

I will attempt to look him up. And then third, again, completely unrelated question. I use my food lead mission set up more forum coffee than anything else. And it works fantastic. And I love it. But basic food safety question, if it's been in 180 degree, you know, a reasonable size bag been in 180 degrees Fahrenheit for 810 hours? Is it essentially? I mean, can I mean, no need to worry about the big ice water bath?

And yeah, no, it is not. It is not canned. And yes and no, here's the deal. So the original old school coffee recipes, right? I have a fairly extensive salting regimen prior to the coffee process. They also have, you know, classic bunch of herbs that gets packed into it, those herbs, thyme and whatnot, are, you know, are bacteria static, have some bacteriostatic effect. And salt is there to provide to provide, you know, some bacterial protection. So, now, I don't know of any cases of someone getting wet, you're worried about a spore forming bacteria here, you're gonna kill all the vegetative stuff, but you're not going to wipe out the spores. So the question is, is the water and here's the other problem, when you're when you're doing a traditional coffee, you have first assault that gets rid of some moisture and increases the salt level that's inhibiting bacteria, you have the putting of the of the herbs on that's somewhat inhibiting bacteria, although it's hard to quantify, you then have the traditional coffee and an open roaster, let's say or on a pot on the stove. And that sucker is, is also getting rid of moisture, because moisture is evaporating off and can get out when you're doing it in the bag. Most modern coffee recipes don't have as much salt, so I can't guarantee there's bacteria static, you're not necessarily using the same herb profile. So can't guarantee bacteria static there. And also, you're not evaporating the moisture out of the bag, the moisture stays in the bag, which is why you get a little chalet in the bottom of bad coffee item. I like all that in terms of taste, but I wouldn't trust it for I wouldn't trust it for room temperature and for not having spores in it. Okay. So I would you know, if you want to do it that way, you know, you got to get a retort bag. You can buy retort bags and then just you know, you could pressure you could pressure if the retort bag and then those suckers are sterile, that'd be shelf stable at that point.

Okay, so I need to be more cautious on this. And then on the on the PICO question. I would Yeah. Okay, fair enough. That was my question. Thank you very much. Thank

you have a good one. All right, Jack. Let's go to our first commercial break. I'll come back with some safety issues on the series all cooking

Today's program has been brought to you by s Wallace Edwards and sons, Edward Suriano. Hands are aged to perfection for no less than 400 days, and hickory smoked to achieve a deep mahogany color. The Edwards name is well known for its world class aged and cured meats. Their exclusive hearing and aging recipe produces a unique flavor profile that enhances the quality characteristics of Berkshire pork. Optimum amounts of pure white fat marbling contribute to a flavor that's a delicate, perfect balance between sweet and salty. For more information, visit www dot Surry farms.com. Did you know heritage radio network.org is a member supported nonprofit organization. If you like what you're listening to go to our website and click that donate button. Become a member and get special discounts invites VIP treatment T shirts and more. Support us and our mission to bring you the freshest food content in the nation.

Nice glad to see Sam Edwards and supporting the show. You know I like yes whilst Edwards ham. Do you like that stuff?

I do enjoy the Suriano ham. And Dave You have another caller I do. Yep.

Siriano. sols Edwards. Great product. I don't like the name. Caller. You're on the air.

Hey, Dave Morin calling from Edmonton. Alberta. Just had a question for you about streams. About what about Sodastream? Oh, cool. All right. Okay, so I purchased that, just the cheap, I'll use SodaStream online and did some research previous to it. And notice that there's a company that basically is able to provide you with a clip so that you can put a co2 cartridge onto the Soda Stream without purchasing it, or exchanging it directly through them. But upon further reading, I noticed that the co2 actually isn't foodgrade it's paintball co2 are designed for paintball guns. Is that a concern?

Well, that's an interesting question. So, you know, if you go to the big restaurant shows, there are companies that only supply co2 for the beverage industry, right? And also, if you buy your gases from people like ISI, let's say in the small cartridges, you know, they make a lot about the purity of, of the gases that go in it. I have always and everyone I know purchases co2, not from paintball suppliers, but from welding suppliers. Including, you know, restaurants and you know, most of us unless you're getting your gas directly from Coca Cola, or Pepsi or whoever you deal with, you know, universal beverage or Coke, whoever you deal with. You know, pretty much we're all using the welding gas. And that's it. I've never noticed any taste problems or anything like that. I mean, this stuff is you know, it's high purity. I don't know. I can't I can't say is I've studied it too much, except for I don't ever worry about it. And I've actually filled I have a 40 I have a 40 pound or 50 pound safe in tank and I fill up smaller things including 20 ounce paintball tanks with it fill up myself, you know, although I don't recommend filling your own tanks unless you do like a lot of reading on the safety because if you fill your own tank and you do it wrong, you cause a serious it's a serious hazard. And incorrectly filled tank is a serious serious hazard. So I don't you know, I don't recommend doing it unless you've done a lot of research on it. But yes, I wouldn't worry about it. I think, you know, the Sodastream people have done a great service to the world and they've brought home carbonated beverages to a large large number of people but they are ripping you off for co2. There's another exactly

and that's that's kind of why I wanted to go with this little mod clip that they have is this so I could basically cheap out a bit more on that without spending the two or 300 bucks it would cost me to get the 20 pound tank and regulator

20 pound tank, a 20 pound tank and a regulator is not that expensive everyone buys it and this is no offense to any homebrew people that are listening but those guys are small shops and need to make they make their profit off. But but they don't sell that many, right. So the prices on like a on a tank are fairly high and a regulator, you know, if you you can get a five pound tank, which is a lot easier to sling, if you're going if you're doing it in your house and then 20. And I want to say that a five pound tank is way under 100 bucks and regulators like 30 If you get it from, from Mark powers in in the Guntersville. Alabama, I don't know about Canada, I don't know what the rules are up there. You know, I hesitate buying a used tank just because you got to make sure when you buy used to me you can I have but you got to make sure when you buy a used tank that still certified otherwise you're gonna have to get certified. You know what I mean? But once you get the investment and once you have that tank, then co2 is so cheap, it's ridiculous. Your price per liter drops to you know, like a penny. It's ridic. You know, yeah, like a 20 pound co2 tank does like on the order of 200 gallons of seltzer water. We think about that. And let's say it's 20 bucks, which I don't even think it's 20 bucks. So that's 20 bucks for 200 gallons, you can really get more. That's what does that that's that's $10 that's $1 for 10 gallons. Is that right? Right? Yeah, yeah, there's $1 for 10 gallons. So that's 10 cents a gallon. And that's like, like two and a half cents a liter. Think about that. Yeah, yeah, ridiculous. Yeah. Plus, you're not going to run out very often.

So no, never not. once every couple of years,

probably, wouldn't it I mean, I mean, look, once you have in your house, so the I go through a lot. So I go through tanks and tanks and tanks, especially, you know, when you first set up your rig, you'll probably have a leaky system and you'll lose your tank a lot faster than you should. But yeah, tank last a good long time, even with a family of four that drinks almost exclusively sell Sir, they last a good long time. So I would definitely go that route, it's gonna save you money in the long run, for sure. And then later on, okay, if you decide to move on to a different system, you already have the tank, you can you can do anything you want. If you want to get a carbonator cap system and take a T branch off your regulator and then do cocktails that way, which is kind of more flexible than doing it SodaStream style. You can that's only another 15 $16 investment to your system. You can you can upgrade it right away and you're not paying for a preposterous amount for the co2 every time you do it. Everyone tries to make their money on the gas. And for me, that's just not a proposition I enjoy.

Okay, you know what I mean? All right, great. Thanks for all your info. I appreciate it. Love the show.

Oh, thanks a lot. No problem. Good luck with it. Okay, so back to the safety on King ingress question on the sizzle. So the mean first of all, obviously, we have lawyers looking at it we have insurance companies, we're talking to about getting insurance and like I'm sure a good chunk of the cost of the item to the consumer is going to be our insurance for it. But we're doing a lot of work to make sure that the product itself is safe. So the you know the the initial design of it was kind of operator ease of use and comfort right so the cone is the cone it was there originally to stop heat from coming back on your knuckles to make sure that everything worked fine there. The second then after we got initial usability down, we focused you know a lot of our attention is being focused right now on safety issues. So you know, the very first thing we said is this thing is too tippy made a clamp clamp that fits on it and the clamp actually is kind of cool because the clamp will fit on butane tank, the tall propane tank and the camping propane tank. It'll also fit on a wine bottle if you want to take it to a picnic so your want Yeah, right. So you're buying bottles and follow up that's that's only thing that stash it cares about is that it fits on the wine bottle. Right does. That's right. Yeah, yeah. And,

and what's the name of this thing?

It's the Jed clamp. Because why?

We're stupid.

Yeah, we're stupid. But what no one put somebody wanna get it. Go get that go get the jet clamp. Jed Clampett Jed Clampett. Get it? Get it? Yeah, yeah, it's a good one, right? And everyone's like, You're stupid. That's a dumb name. And you're like, guess what, I don't care. I get to name it. You don't it's the Jed clamp anyway, so Joe clamp will fit on a propane tank, butane tank, wine bottle, you name it. In fact, eventually we want to sell that sucker just for use with regular torches because I've always thought torches were unsafe standing up there on its own. So that's something we addressed. But Dave Chang, especially with like people aren't always going to put the arms go put the clamp on. So we're trying to engineer it such that it's safe even without that first of all, the one that has been on the on our web there there is if we've modified it since then there's a safety cage around it and the safety cage is made of wire so that it doesn't retain heat very much and you can you can literally knock it over on the table and it won't catch anything on fire and it's still hot Not gonna lie, but you can you can hit it after it's been on for a long time and not sustain horrible burns as if it like you would if the naked Home fell on you. And we're still right now, before we knew one of the reasons we have a Kickstarter, yes, we're still working on a bunch of different safety tweaks to make it as safe as we possibly can. You know, in addition, of course, it's going to come with a list of instructions a mile long on what to do and what not to do, but rest assured that the safety of the product is, you know, once we came up with the functionality that we liked, the safety of the product is our primary concern when you say that's true stuff. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That was good. There's enough on that rest as well. Good morning. Brandon Hopkins writes in from Phoenix, Arizona. I haven't been to Phoenix in a long time because you have been a phoenix. Yes, they have. I don't think what do you have a good feeling?

You don't like it?

There's no hints, or weird. What?

Who the hell do you like, you don't like hipsters.

I have a new contest. You'll get a free T shirt. If you write in five things Anastasia likes?

No. No will ever win that. No, like you'd have that contest done before the end of the show. If you're like tweeting five things she hates. Yeah, you over. That's not the point. Yeah, yeah. Five things she like. So what do you have against Phoenix besides the awesome Saguaro cactuses in the in the awesome smell of the desert?

My grandmother lived there, but I do like Sedona Sedona is beautiful. Have you been there?

Like Sedona? You don't wait. Oh, you don't like hipsters, but you like weird hippie freaks? No offense to Don't you know,

I liked the landscape. I don't like the weird had the freak part.

No offense, weird hippie freaks. We'd love to. But, ya know, Sedona is nice. My father in law used to fly into Sedonas airport. And that's a bumpy ride and a Cessna 172. Let me tell you anyway, I like Phoenix and it gets good stuff. I haven't been out there in a long, long, long time, probably 13 years anyway. Hope they got the pollution problem fix. You know, when I used to go out there in the in the 90s. They were like the last place on Earth, you can still use leaded gas. I hope they've changed that. I have no idea. Anyway. Brandon says I discovered your podcast a few weeks ago and had been catching up on episodes. Since then have a few questions. I bought a poly science creative series circulator last week, and I've been using Ziploc bags per year low temperature primer. Are there any applications where a vacuum sealer is a must have? For example, what I need to vacuum sealed short ribs before I cook them for 72 hours? No, you don't. However, well, we'll get into it with the VacMaster VP 112 chamber sealer work well enough to also do a quick pickling, or what I need a more expensive chamber sealer for that. So let's handle this. Before we before I get on to the second question. So here's the deal. You can do and I say this in the in the you know, when we used to teach it, you know, you can do 90% of what you want to do without a vacuum by using zip locks, however, right? If you seal something in a vacuum bag, so that's just from a cooking standpoint, vacuum shines in food preservation, right. So there's two reasons to use? Well, there's many, but you know, two of the two of the main reasons to use a vacuum machine are one, you can bag things. So you can do low temperature cooking. And for me personally, that's the most important thing, too, by removing the oxygen from the bag you are and also by removing any sort of gas content, you're gonna freeze, let's say something, you're gonna freeze it by removing air and or oxygen, all that stuff, you are preserving the product in a better condition for a longer time also doing things like preventing freezer burn, if you're going to freeze etc, etc, preventing crystallization. Because there's no surface from which the water can migrate out and form crystals on the surface. Okay, so for preservation, you need a vacuum. And the better the vacuum, the happier you're going to be. I have the VacMaster VP 112, which is what what you're talking about is I've never used it, but I've looked at it on the web a bunch of times, it is a lot cheaper than the pumps, the vacuum sealers that I'm used to, and what it amounts to chamber machine, which means that you're not sucking the air out of the bag, you're sucking the air out of a chamber and then sealing the bag that by far and away is the better system to use than one where you're sucking air out of the bag. I've had nothing but bad luck with the ones where you suck the air out of the bag with the exception of like 36 inch striped bass, which I can't figure out how to seal any other way. So anyway, so yes, so chambers is a good good way to go. But the VacMaster looks like just kind of like a FoodSaver on steroids. And by that I mean it doesn't have a commercial quality vacuum pump in it. All of the kind of all of the big kid vacuum machines, the Chamber machines, have in them a bush pump, pump, maybe by the Bush Corporation, and those things are monsters. They're, they're always always work. They're awesome, right? They suck a very fast vacuum and there's go down to a very low number of millibar. So they're just a good piece of equipment all the way around. And all of the major ones that you find, you know, mini pack, multi vac, and Kotch, they all use that brand, because everyone knows they're the best ones out there for normal use, right? Now, this guy has a piston pump in it, which it has its limitations, it's never going to pump as hard to vacuum as other things is never going to pump as quickly as as other things. Now, the question is, is it enough? I don't know. You know, when I looked on the web, I looked this morning, and I looked at a bunch of reviews online of people that have it near they buy it at Cabela's, which is you know, the, you know, the sporting goods store, because you know, hunters buy and things like this. And some of the people that have it, like it however, I never saw this, I never saw Hey, you know what, I'm used to working in a kitchen or in a processing plant with, you know, a real vacuum machine like a mini pack. And I had this one, and it's almost as good didn't see that once didn't see that once I did not see one consumer, or one customer review of that machine. That That. That said that it compared to what I would consider to be, you know, the commercial machines that I'm used to. And I will also say I spoke to a mini pack rep yesterday. And he said that in one of the places they sell a lot of vacuum things in Alaska, because they have a lot of fish. And they're packing the fish down, you know, for freezing and shipping. And he says that literally in their in their showroom, they have that unit, the VacMaster sitting next to their unit so you can make a decision for yourself which way to go. Now at home, maybe it's enough, I don't really know how high of a vacuum level can get. If the vacuum pump is no better than a FoodSaver. It's not going to do as good a job a quick pickles anywhere near as good a job as a real vacuum machine can do but I don't have any personal experience with it. What do you think's does? Good? Yeah, man, I want to be snobby about it. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like I'm being a jerk, because it is literally a third of the price of the next machine up 1/3. You don't I mean? So I don't know whether you can get away with it or not. No one's ever sent us one. So like, so I can't make an informed judgment. If anyone out there in in Twitter land has used both, like a regular commercial machine, like a mini pack of multi vac or a cartridge or something similar. And one of those vac masters please just, you know, tweet and tell us what you think whether or not it was whether or not I would do anything. Okay. Second question. Is there a way to make powdered Dr. Pepper? That's SEO it's all Ustaz. Yeah.