Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

Today's program has been brought to you by fairway market like no other market and New York City institution that sells the best local national and international artisan foods for prices that can't be beat. For more information visit fairway market.com You're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn, if you'd like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host. Oh,

nice.

Nice. Can you live Are we are we in Bushwick or Bushwick Brooklyn, which is

the second one

and you know, it's Bushwick because someone's jackhammering on our roof. Don't worry, it's just a radio station. How you doing stuff? It's crazy here that I feel like this might be like, you know, Yosemite Sam is going to come falling. Stealing. Yeah. joined as usual with Jack and Joe in the engineering booth. How're you guys doing? Hello? Yeah, do pretty good. Yeah, nice. All right. coding questions. 27184972128 That's 718-497-2128 We might even be able to hear you over the jackhammering? Maybe maybe. So I was reminded by something I biked here and again, being out of shape and old. It's my 42 now lose my birthday. Yeah. Besides being out of shape and old and having someone jackhammer above my head, I was thinking about biking. We saw someone last week and biking through the streets in New York. And they were on the ground in a bloody pile holding their head rolling and writhing in pain surrounded by a group of people waiting for the ambulance to show up. And what's the moral of this? Were a freaking helmet people. If you're out there biking wear a freaking helmet. I don't care how important your hair is to you. You know who I'm talking to Brooklyn hipsters put on a helmet. What do you guys think an engineering group about helmets. I wholeheartedly agree. Yeah, I mean, it No, it's a bad look. Like bleeding out of your head. That's pretty bad look. Yeah, it's a terrible and I'll tell you what, like everyone. They move here from wherever they came from. Right? Like they go to college or they do whatever they're going to do. They moved to New York. And they think that biking here is just like biking when they were kids back in like East wherever they come from, you know what I'm saying? And here you will get hit by a car you will get doored something awful will happen to you. You'll get your head cracked open and you might even die wear a freaking helmet

that's the see I drive so I know exactly how crazy people are in cars.

Yeah, that's good point. Well, you know, I'm that kind of guy like when I'm a pedestrian I hate bikers and cars when I drive a car. I hate pedestrians and but I just I hate whoever I'm not at the time. But I try to be polite on the road. And you Okay, Michael Purvis writes in with two questions. One hilarious and the other one kind of normal. Right? I have to say I really shouldn't bring it up because you guys home can't do anything about it. But this hammering over my head really driving me bananas. This is what it's like for you to dentist. The Stache? Oh, by the way, I hope that I mean, obviously her dentist is not a listener to the show. No, but you know, mustaches dentist is I swear to God, a used car salesperson she will sell and stash any line of dental work. Anything anything like she's like, oh, you know what, you need to have all your teeth ripped out and then the exact same was put back and you're gonna be under. Trust me. I did that work? You owe me a lot of money. And sounds like sounds like hey, it's no problem. I got dental insurance doesn't matter that like only 1/10 of all this crap is happening is covered and that you're paying for this lady's kids college. She just had a new baby. Oh, well, nothing. She needs more than the stashes money. So she's like, but she's so nice. She's so nice. She's Japanese. What's that have to do with anything I like like you don't want big meat hooks in your mouth. Whenever it gets the job done. sighs You know someone's gonna take my teeth out and drill holes in me. I'm not worried about the thickness of the digits if you know what I'm saying. Anyway, Michael Barthez writes in first, I live in Ohio and have pretty hard well water drawn straight from limestone bedrock. I don't know its exact composition, but it's probably mostly calcium carbonate with enough iron to make it taste kind of bad until the iron oxidizes, precipitates out and stains everything at which point the water tastes fine. Iron in the water is a kind of a pain in the butt. How's your water in California? Like the soap free awful or like hard awful. Like it didn't lather when you're in this shower? No, no, no laughter and that's about as much information I want about that as possible. Okay. After reading your posts on Nick's immunization neutralization, by the way is the process whereby you take calcium hydroxide, and called cow and you cook corn with it and breaks down the the outside the endosperm of the corn as well as doing a bunch of awesome other things like making it taste awesome and making the hydrocarbons out of the endosperm that make masa such an amazing thing anyway, and freeing up nice and whole bunch of great stuff. Anyway, after reading a post on nationalization, I put two and two together and realized it was not my excellent timing that made my broccoli, so firming green, but the hard water I was boiling it in. And the reason why for those of you that don't know this is going to come up later is calcium crosslinks with pectin and and when that happens, the pectin becomes much more stable towards being broken down in high temperatures. So the when the calcium crossings with the pectin and forms that you know the crossing plankton, then like even boiling it for what would normally make a mushy product, right? Because pectin is the main thing causing the kind of crunchiness and the hardness of vegetables. If you stabilize the pectin, it keeps stuff crunchy longer, right anyway. And the other interesting thing about it is that so fusing calcium hydroxide, two things are working against each other, right, you're supposed to add a pinch of baking soda to water. If you're having problems with your vegetables, turning your vegetables turning. What's the word I'm looking for Brown, right because the chlorophyll is getting ruined. So what happens is, is that's accentuated by acidic things. So you add a pinch of baking soda to your water, the water becomes slightly basic, and that preserves the green so you get bright green vegetables. The problem is, is that basic conditions also destabilize pectin make it break down much faster. So the problem is you get mushy products. So mushy broccoli if you add baking soda to your water, if you use calcium hydroxide, instead of baking soda, the calcium by crosslinking with the pectin cancels out the problem that you have with the basicity of the bakery have like normal basic things like baking soda, because calcium hydroxide is basic. And therefore you can have green things that aren't mushy by cooking them with a pinch of calcium hydroxide the water anywho Anywho. So the calcium in in Michaels water is causing his broccoli to not go crappy. That goes along with it. Just explain what the hell we're talking about here. Okay. This made me wonder if I've effectively got less basic lime water on tap. Well, you have water high in calcium anyway. What sort of benefits for being prepared in or with hard water? And what other sorts of stuff benefits from being prepared in or with hard water? And what should I do about the iron in it? I know I'll definitely only make pickles with hard water in the future. Okay, well, I mean, we all know No hard water, it depends on how hard your water is. Right? So I mean, the obvious thing about additional and also depends me in your specific case, your hardness is coming from calcium. So one of the benefits you're going to get from it is, is increased firmness and vegetables that are building okay, even though as you're boiling it to the calcium is kind of precipitating out. And so you have those, probably I'm guessing those nasty rings around the outside of, of your pan, I actually forgot to look up how to get rid of the iron in a normal way. Because I was focused mainly on the calcium behind me with calcium. And my my, my brain went on Fritz, and I didn't look up the iron. But the obvious problem, right. So I mean, you probably know what the problems are. But the obvious problem is things that you want to get really soft, things like beans, right? So beans have the problem that, you know, you're trying to get them soft. And if you add anything that contains calcium to the water, or too much calcium to the water, the beans might never ever go soft. And the same thing happens if you if you accidentally add if you let's say you're making baked beans, and like me, you like a little bit of vinegar in your baked beans have that acidity and you make the mistake as I only ever made once of adding the acidity early in the Cook process. And then you realize your beans never go hard. You ever have anyone tried to make baked beans for you. You don't like baked beans, right? Because you got brain problems? Are you like have you ever had anyone give me one that was like hard, because they added the acidity early in the Cook process, or they cooked with really hard water or even worse, both. So I mean, that's obviously a detriment. But the other place where I see you have a really, really large advantage with hard hard water. And if it's basic basic water is in noodles, and in some bread formulation. So making something more basic and increasing the calcium and other minerals in water tends to increase the increase the tenacity of gluten structures, right, so you get firmer dos. Now this is especially true when you're looking at noodles, specifically Chinese noodles. So if you if you do the research on console, which is a mixture of I think potassium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate, or some mixture of those things, basic things. Often with calcium, these are added to noodles to enhance the gluten structure of the noodles. And which makes them more elastic and stretchy. And also in certain cases makes them kind of a bright yellow. So if you see those kinds of they're called Yellow Alkalyn noodles, and they're made by adding constantly however, the speculation is is that this technique derived from trying to mimic the product that was made from people who had wells with exceedingly hard and alkaline water. So you could see a significant benefit in certain types of noodles. And also certain types of bread dose. Now if your water is too hard, obviously you can, you know, go too far over that edge. And it's no longer an advantage anymore. But I would guess your your main points of diversion in terms of being lucky with your with your calcium water is things like vegetables, also preserving fruits and preserving tomatoes. I would suspect that if you use a canned tomato, if you have enough calcium in your water, you might not need to add as much calcium chloride or other form of calcium to the to the mix to get the tomatoes to stay hard. And this is going to dovetail nicely with another question we have later in the show. But you might also you know be able to do things like have berries stay together and better if you're making preserves out of them assuming that you have extra water added to it, which you typically wouldn't but but there you have it anyway. In fact, wait, I'll do your second question. And then I'll go to the other question based on berries which was going to handle it handle later. Waiting. Yeah, I have to have if I never know like whether I've been talking for one minute or 15 minutes I have to look over it. This is what I'm doing. Why always ask me Stasha whether that's okay or not is because I have no idea what I've just said. So I have to ask her whether it's okay. For my shopping and say yes. What do you sell before today? I'm not shopping, okay? If anyone out there which I doubt work for the Zappos Corporation. Gosh, I've never been seized. This is what I want someone to confirm. I want someone to break whatever sort of customer confidentiality you have. And just send us an email says yes, we've received the orders. Yes, my name is not on file Payless. I told you, Bayless. Okay, Michael second question. Second, how safe is it to use transglutaminase? In first aid, this is a hilarious one. Right? So trans contaminates. I'll just finish the question. First, I'm gonna try to not go tangential until I finish the question. It's my my 42 year old resolution to try to not go hyper tangential before finishing the question.

42 On the one hand, it seems like it could be good, quickly closing cuts and preventing them from easily being pulled back open. On the other hand, it seems like it could be extremely bad, potentially sealing in anaerobic bacteria, or else short circuiting the natural healing process and causing terrible or awesome scars. I guess depends on you know, your view of terrible or awesome you know, there's people who make scars on purpose, like a form of, you know, body aren't there? I don't expect it to be a replacement for stitches if they're needed. But ordinary Winston slap a bandaid on it cuts heal well enough without professional attention. So can it be done safely? And if so, is it worth the effort? Thanks. I love the show had been tearing through the archives. Okay, so for those who we haven't talked about it in a while, so I mentioned what it is in case you're don't know what it is. transglutaminase is a an enzyme that crosslinks proteins. Okay. So it literally takes two amino acids from two different protein chains, and covalently bonded them together to form a kind of protein aggregate polymer, right? It's covalent bond. It's not an ionic thing. Once it's made, it can only be broken physically. So even cooking it right doesn't denature or would denature the protein but it doesn't break that bond. So what, you know what, two things we're joined by transglutaminase? Let no one put us under, you know what I'm saying? Anyway, so our bodies have transglutaminase and numbness is a natural part of your body, in fact, blood clotting to go back to a wound stuff, blood clotting it what happens is, is there's an initial thing that you form thrombin, right. Well, how does it work, you need to have five fibers, right? thrombin axon, it forms these aggregates of fibers, then those aggregates of fibers are glued together into big clots by trans with Hammond ace in your, in your blood system in your body in the presence of calcium. So going back to calcium, again, transglutaminase in your body is dependent on calcium for proper activation. Okay, now, microbial transglutaminase, which is meat glue, which is the stuff that we use to bond different pieces of meat together. One of the amazing things about it, other than the fact that it's not derived from an animal is that it in fact is kind of unusual, right to have something that's derived from a microbe that actually bombs things together, instead of breaking the part I haven't thought about it, but most of the stuff that I get actually breaks stuff apart. Anyway. What and what I thought he said something far more inappropriate. So microbial transglutaminase can bond stuff together without calcium. So the theory is, then can you use this thing to bond your skin together? And, well, the idea, I mean, you're not gonna have a problem with anaerobic stuff. But the idea I mean, people have asked me before, and it's it's hilarious, but also kind of like horrifying that you would take this powder for cooking and like, kind of glue yourself together with it. Because everyone always asks when we're teaching meat glue, where like whether or not you will glue your skin together. And the joke we always make is that well, if you sand your forehead until it's bloody, and then sand your hand till it's bloody, and then bandage your hand to your forehead, and let it sit there without moving for four hours, then yes, you could probably bought it but then you could always rip it off, you know, because the bond that you make with transglutaminase is usually only as strong as the bond between two adjacent pieces of muscle. Right? It doesn't bind it usually as strong as you know the whole muscle unless it's in the presence of a lot of salt, etc, whatever. So it also in microbial transglutaminase and stuff that you buy Aktiva especially if you get the RM there's milk protein in it, which you don't want to like have in your wound also stuff although you can't get one with straight gelatin. But I mean, it makes a lot of sense. So I went and looked it up and there's a company that in I believe, you know, sometime in the early mid 2000s called Life bond li F e blnd. was making some goop some some transglutaminase gelatin goop and they say that it's almost completely biomimetic. I love the word is self evident biomimetic. And it's an awesome word. Even stars are sitting there going biomimetic biomimetic in her head, I can see you're saying it. So like that's I don't know what kind of robot voice it is anyway. They're making this goop that you can put into your wounds and and actually it speeds healing and one of the things they're looking at is in Battlefield situations where you need to like stop big wounds quickly and put things together and in a way that can stop like high pressure arterial bleeds. They're working on it so it's very interesting you know, and I'll read you from from their patent most high pressure hemostatic devices currently on the market and high pressure hemostatic devices bait mainly means can stop blood in a high pressure like an arterial situation that's that's translated right down or sideways currently on the market are normally nominally if at all adhesive and their point is that trans with Hammond has post gelatin is adhesive to your tissue massage making a nasty face here. Good examples of such devices are quick clot ACS and he and Cohn bandage the two hemostatic devices currently supplied to members of the US Armed Forces, the mineral zeolite crystals and quick clot sponge cause adsorbed cause adsorption of the water molecules in the blood this concentrating the chronic clotting factors and accelerating blood clotting. So they're literally putting like an absorptive powder on you that just like like, soaks it up and causes quit clotting hence the name quick clot. The kind of sand mixture that makes up hemcon has a positive charge that attracts red blood red blood cells, which have a negative charge, the red blood cells are drawn into the dressing forming a seal over the wound and stabilizing the wound surface. So these guys at life bond have anticipated your question and are now making transglutaminase based wound dressings and we'll see how that goes in the future. But do not put Aktiva RM in your cut before you slap a bandaid on it. Or if you do it, do not say that I recommended that you do so let's go to our first commercial break.

Hi, I'm Steve Jenkins from fairway markets. I've devoted my idiot career to the old ways, the old recipes, the old tools, the old geography of where serious foods come from for centuries, and I've strived to make these wonderful things available to New Yorkers for 37 years. So it's a fait accompli for us to support heritage radio network. And I hope you will too. And I hope you'll keep tuning in. For more information, please visit fairway market.com.

Are we back? We're back. And welcome back. I never know because Jack will always fill in likes and like, I'll sit there and I'll get back and then like it's like, oh, I'm Jack.

Maybe I should bring it back every time that say And we're back. And then you can come in. And you know, hey, I want to give a quick shout out to Ben Lambert though who just became a member mere seconds ago, cooking issues listener. So Thanks, Ben.

Thanks. And you know what I was looking up probably no relation. In fact, I'm sure no relation lamp Lambert radiating bodies. No relation? I'm

sure you're just looking that up? Well, yeah, in fact, I

can talk about it a little bit now. Nice. So those of you that listen to the show might be aware we're working on a new product that's going to have the name some form of Sally something probably. And it forms as a little handheld salamander, right. And, and what it does is it diffuses and converts the flame from a torch into A into mostly IR infrared heat, it makes it very, very even. And the advantage of this unit is that it's on almost instantly, because the screens that make up the unit have a very, very low thermal mass. So it turns you know, cherry red, almost instantly, like couple seconds, right? So anyway. But when I had the initial people testing it, they were having some sore, they were having problems using it because they weren't thinking about and we're going to do a video about this. Maybe I'll be posted on the blog, eventually, we're shooting some tomorrow. The problem with it is is that people are holding the unit as far away from the food as they would hold a normal salamander, right. And the fact of the matter is, is that you have to hold it much closer than you would a normal Salamander. And the reason the reason for it, you know is that most people aren't thinking about how heat from something like a salamander actually works. So for those of you that don't have a sound, man or don't even know what the heck I'm talking about, a salamander is a form of a commercial broiler, right. And the way that most commercial salamanders work is they have a series of bricks that have a bunch of holes in them. Gas comes out of the bricks, and it through the little holes ignites and forms an infrared like an infrared kind of plane of heat, right there where the bricks are and the thing is very long, usually like on the order of three feet is typical for the salamander and I'd say the bricks are maybe six and a half seven inches across. Okay, so you have a strip of bricks it's about three feet long and seven inches across now the difference now so take that right and so a long time ago back in the days when Michael batter Barry was still with us and I was writing a lot for food arts so you know for those you that don't know who Michael Barbary is go and look them up right away he and Ariane were like, you know, huge influences on my life in terms of my career and a lot of other people who are in the food business. You know, they they've done a lot of good that they don't bother taking the credit for anyway. So back when I was writing for food arts, I had to write an article on what's called deck boilers. And deck boilers are things that actually most even restaurants don't have. But if you have a steak house or a large hotel, you're apt to have a deck boiler. And what a deck boiler is, is imagine a bunch of salamanders like where the where the bricks are stacked next to each other to form instead of just a strip of these bricks a square, okay? And it always amazed me that even though each individual brick in a deck boiler has the same amount of energy that's leaving it per square centimeter. Deck boilers are fantastically more powerful than salamanders in normal operations, and also very, very even. And that's why they're really good for things like steaks, right? Why? The question is why? And the answer and also one of the problems of salamanders is that salamanders have what is called a sweet spot. And it's a line that runs all the way across the center of the long axis of the salamander. And the issue is, is that a deck boiler is acting pretty much like an infinite plane of heat this way, this is where we're going back to Lambert I'm not gonna get into the nitty gritty of it, but in an infinite plane of of radiating heat, right of IR IR radiation, right? If you have an infinite plane or something that's approximating it such that such that basically the food can't see that literally see the edge of the of the heater, then the amount of energy that the food is receiving from the heater is roughly independent of how far away it is. So everything heats evenly. And the amount of heating is just is just a function of the output per square centimeter of the heaters just make any sense at all. Yes. Okay, good. So, DEC boilers act like an infinite plane, and then anything within it is going to get heated evenly and it doesn't matter within a couple you know, centimeters, how far away it is right? And this goes back to you know, my son DAX is obsessed with this Archer named Byron Ferguson, who, you know, Byron Ferguson, his motto is, if I can see it, I can hit it and Byron Ferguson can take an arrow, pull it off of his back, and he can shoot an aspirin out of this guy. Literally, his wife throws aspirin into the air and Byron Ferguson pulls an arrow off of his back and shoots it. Like as it's leaving his wife's hand practically, and his wife is so used to this that she doesn't even flinch. Imagine like, imagine what Jen would do. If I was going to try to shoot an aspirin out of a she should rightfully Run Run for the hills. You know what I mean? Like this is not some sort of William Burroughs situation with his wife with the apple on his head, like this guy's real deal. So check them out Byron focus anyway, if I if I can see it, I can hit it. And the same thing goes true with heaters, if you can see it, you can hit it. So under a salamander, when a piece of meat is sitting there, it can see the heater all in the heater can see the food all the way along the long line of it. So that section is working like an infinite plane, right, but the sides on the edge that are relatively narrow, it doesn't act like it and the more the further you get away from something, and the less it looks like an infinite plate, the more it acts like a point source and appoint source, the amount of energy you receive, like goes down as the square of the distance from it. So anyway, long story short, the small salamander only acts like an infinite plane when you're very, very close to the object, right. And so the long story short, you have to hold this object extremely close to the food when you're cooking it. So that's why I was thinking about it. And that's a kind of a long digression based on Lambert, but you should also think about this when you're when you're cooking in general and think about how large the heat source is compared to the food you're cooking. And the larger the heat sources compared to the food you're cooking, and the closer your food is to it, the more even you will be if you can withstand that level of heating. Does that make any sense at all? Yes, she could like I don't care. I really just I really don't care. Right. Okay. So let's go to that second question on calcium. We have a home this is a nice one. Chris writes in Hey, Dave NuSTAR said Jack show and indeed Jesus. We haven't an awesome picture from indeed Jesus's Facebook but weak but apparently Jack says he wouldn't enjoy being referred to as indeed Jesus. I don't think so. Even though it's with like, honestly, with all love.

I, you know, I don't know. I'll have to ask him. Like to tell

him it's with love is in this picture we have from Facebook. It's like in DeKalb. Like

I said, he doesn't even like being called a hippie. So I can't really imagine how indeed, Jesus would affect him.

You calling Jesus a hippie? Anyway, like, yeah, no one no one, no one in the studio wants to go there. Okay, I have a patent related question. My goal is to firm up small fruits like blueberries so they won't rupture and bleed out in cakes, muffins, pancakes, etc. I know you've mentioned this technique in the past but couldn't find it in the backlog and would love the appropriate ratio to use in the future. Thanks so much for the great show. Definitely a highlight of the week and backlog is great for Sunday morning and kitchen cleaning. Without question my food has made a jump in quality thanks to the radio show and blog, and now regularly use enzymes, gums and pre hydrated starches, in addition to my circulator regularly with delicious and consistent results, Chris, I like that. That's what I like to hear like to hear that. Okay. So the enzyme in question is pectin, methyl esterase. And it's the opposite of of, you know, kind of the SPO which breaks things down it crosslinks pectins in the presence of calcium now, most fruits have a naturally occurring pectin, methyl esterase. And will crosslink. Somewhat if you have calcium especially in, in the presence of heat, when the cells start to break a little bit, it will release some of the pectin methyl esterase. And if there's calcium present, you'll increasingly crosslink your product. That's why just a little bit of calcium and canned tomatoes, you they use us calcium chloride, unfortunately, causes those canned tomatoes to be really stiff. And that's why those 10 Tomatoes when you use them in sauce never fully break down. Right? You've noticed that right? Yes. So Novozymes who makes the who makes the up pick the next Ultra SPL that we use and everything also makes something called no vote shape. And you can use it with calcium I forget what the calcium ratios is, but you can use it the same way you use petromax Ultra SPL in a sense, you can use about a you know one or two grams per liter of liquid that you're treating with I would add a couple percent of calcium to the water and then let it soak and I've done that to raspberries of vacuum injected and then boiled them and the raspberry stayed hole in boiling liquid. Now you want to make sure that you know that the liquids roughly isotonic with the raspberries, so you got to add some sugar. Otherwise it'll just blast apart, you know because of osmotic pressure but they I was astounded how well those suckers held together. We there for that test does remember that? It's crazy, right? And I wanted to do that with brandy cherries. But you know, there's a problem with the cherry harvest or there was a problem with people ordering cherries for me this and I can't taste them anyway. So my I wasn't really that juiced up, because I you know, I couldn't I can't taste cherries cuz I'm allergic to them anyway. So that would work you might try. And I don't know whether or not modernist pantry ever started carrying Novo shape, but they could are the only thing that you know between them. And that is the investment in a 25 litre pail that they can then break up and we never had enough application to buy our own 25 litre pail. We buy 25 litre pails of SPL all the time. Like we're actually basically an industrial user that's been carrying them doesn't say monitors pantry. Oh, yeah, yeah, Chris monitors patriot. He could probably buy a pail of it if he wanted to. And then you just add calcium, add Novo shape, and let it soak and you're good. So I would do that. I would also just try adding straight calcium and letting it soak for a while on the calcium. And then you can bring the heat up and see whether or not it has preserved them or not. But anyway, that's what I would. That's what I would do. Yeah, no, you know how they make the fake blueberries in the real life. said this before the alginate they actually what they do is they take blueberry juice and they make they in they put a sphere of blueberry juice inside of an alginate shell of blueberry juice. And that sucker lasts forever. It's not real, but it lasts forever. And that's in fact, that was one of the like, that was one of the original things well before anyone like you know fron was using alginate balls. alginate balls are being used in industrial applications for things like flake fake blueberries, things like fake onion rings, things like that. Any So, there you have it. Was it good? Yeah, she's like, I don't care. I really don't care about the pizza. I just want the pizza stars like why don't we do to show free pizza? Yeah, How much easier would be for me to just buy you a pizza every week. Now? Yeah, I mean, whatever I can afford the pizza, I'll say, Okay. Pete writes in tear Dave at all. Over the years, my family and I have typically procured our hands from local country growers, who let their pigs forage in the woods. I've often read that there has not been a case of trigger Gnosis in the US from pork since the 1950s. But given the source of meat, I've always cooked my country hams to an internal temperature of 137 degrees Fahrenheit. I know from talking to growers and hunters that forest fed and feral pigs. That's a great word feral pig, right? Yeah. Funeral paying for the stars and stars actually, I'm surprised she likes that word. I could tell it's tough. I look on her face, a feral pig to why don't why people because she loves cats and like as soon as you say the word feral, the word cat pops into her head. And she doesn't even think about the word pig. The pig just leaves and it's a feral cat which is like inherent love. Right? Favorite animal feral cats are just cats in general. And starship goes through their day she goes, Can we get a cat in the lab? I'm like, we already we already have you. You sit around and like you know, bat things around and attack your ankles. God, I hope not. That would be that'd be an all time low. Where were we feral pigs? Oh, yes. Okay. I know from talking to growers, hunters that Forrest Fenn feral pigs will consume any carrion they come across. This is true. In fact, I read an article in the 1800s in West Virginia where they imported a bunch of pigs to a particular area of West Virginia that was infested with snakes and the snakes just I mean, and the pigs wipe the snakes out to wipe them out ate every snake that was there and reports of the hands made from those niq Fed pigs was it they were quite good? Yeah, yeah, you can go you can go look it up. I looked that up. You know many many years ago when I was researching country hands for the first museum of food versus snake you wouldn't guess Hmm. Pigs are some harsh suckers man. This is why like you know, like if you ever watched Robert missions last movie when he's like a boar hunt I mean like wild pigs are not animals that you trifle with. You know what I mean? Don't go messing with the wild pigs anyway. will consume any carry and they come across? Years ago, I read a study that indicated salt carrying at least nine weeks of hanging was sufficient to still destroy any Trigonella larva your recent suggesting that one does not have to cook your country hands got me wondering about this again. Is this still the thinking? Have there been any recent revelations about the resiliency of trick analysis love the show Landon? PS I've been freezing my pork for Italian style carry on home muscles to ensure that I end up with Trigonella free meat. I would love to not have to do that. Okay. Here's the deal. I go to you want to go to APHIS which is the animal Plant Health Inspection Services section on pork. And by the way, for those of you that don't know what chicken Gnosis is, these these little worms that you can get from consuming undercooked meats. You know, pig used to be the big one you got from pig but also bear any kind of wild meat right? And you get them in and then it's the disease is measured in number of worms per cubic centimeter muscle mass, and it causes huge Havoc because they invade your muscles in the nightmare. Plus, it's just it's gross, right? Yeah. Does anything grossed me out more than that? Is that one of the grosser ones where your muscles are invaded by these worms? Awesome, right? Anyway. So that's the problem with pork and so for a long time, that's why they had you had you cook the hell out of your meat. Okay, here is what we have to say. Here's what the animal Plant Health Inspection Services has to say on their website about Trigonella and pork.

trichinosis has a long standing association with pork products not only in the US, but around the world. The concept which many people have about the need to cook pork thoroughly is based on the risk of becoming infected with this parasite. This concern is well founded in history. At the beginning of the 20th century, conservative estimates showed a 2.5 infection percent infection rate in US pigs. Even more alarming were the post mortem surveys conducted in the 1930s. A National institute of health report published in 1943, found that 16.2% of the US population of pigs is infected one out of every six this type of information led us to considerable publicity is about the danger of eating pork. The historical problem of tricking, trick and eye infection in pigs is responsible for strict federal controls of methods used to prepare ready to eat pork products in the US and expensive carcass inspection requirements in Europe. These regulations are still in effect in the Code of Federal Regulations for processed products and then direct is of the European Union which actually has like going back and rereading that it didn't say out of every pigs it says 16.2% of the US population of people had some form of chicken those chicken Ella in their in their system. That's gross. Yes, it's gross. I don't even believe that. Probably that I believe that name from it. Okay, okay. Despite the historical problems of trick and I and its association with the pork industry, major changes have occurred in the last 50 years. Human cases of instead of saying trick Gnosis they right trick and no losos trick trick and metallosis tricky. It's gonna call trick Gnosis crap on these guys reported through the Centers for Disease Control declined from about 500 a year in the 1940s to fewer than 50 a year over the last decade. Further, many of these cases result from non pork sources such as bear and other game meats. A major decline has also occurred and the prevalence of this parasite in pigs while prevalence has declined considerably in the US pigs. The lowest prevalence rates and domestic pigs are found in countries where meat inspection programs have been in place for many years, including the EU, notably Denmark and Netherlands. These countries consider themselves essentially free of tricky Gnosis the dramatic declines in chickens and pigs reflect changes in the industry. Historically, infection in pigs was associated with feeding of raw garbage. major trends were major inroads were made into trichinosis infection with the advent of garbage cooking laws passed between 1953 in 1954. And the hog cholera eradication program of 1962 Of equal importance has been the movement to high levels of biosecurity and hygiene under which most pigs are now raised. Still, opportunities for exposure to pigs exist and some precautions should be implemented. So anyway, so that's the thing on pigs and West dealing with but your stuff does not adhere to this because it's from wild pigs. So for a long time, they're considering getting rid of it. Now. The good news is, is as you say, you can kill pigs, kill pigs, you can companies, you can kill chicken Gnosis by cooking meat for a mere 47 minutes at the core at only 52 degrees Celsius, or six minutes and 55 also, as you know, deep freezing causes a tricky Gnosis worms to be killed and assist to be killed. But you don't want to have to do that. Now unfortunately, there is no single set of you know you do this assault do that, that that can guarantee that they will safely admit guarantees trichinosis. However, all you need to do for curing your own stuff to figure out whether it's safe to eat without cooking is go to the US Department of Agriculture's Code of Federal Regulations search on this one, ready, Title Nine, chapter three, paragraph 318 dot 10. And that one, that paragraph, I read it this morning, but it's too complicated to go to lists all the specific curing mechanisms that you can use to destroy trick and Gnosis in pork without having to go through a three step or a cook step. And they all are combinations of salt levels per pound of meat, a specific contact time of salt on meat in days per days per whatever, forget what it is, and then holding in the drying room for a certain number of days, or with a certain amount of equalization to assure trichinosis death. So, if you follow those rules precisely or greater, those rules are greater. In other words, that amount of salt or more that amount of time drying or more that amount of water loss or more than you're guaranteed a safe product from a trick and Gnosis standpoint. But if I were you, if you're dealing with feral hogs, don't fool around with this one, make sure that you conform to the specifications that are laid out in Title Nine, Chapter Three subpart 318 10. But is my impression that you when you're doing country hands specifically, you do not need to freeze as long as you follow their rules. But please don't just take my word for it. read that chapter in its entirety. I want some wild pig meat, you know, the only time I've ever had you know, so interesting thing about pigs. And you say that they were eating I think there's You said they can't go back and find it but eating stuff that they eat off the forest. Only one time have I had a USDA slaughtered pig that was eating fallen nut meats called mast, right. So when stuff falls off the trees, which happens in the fall, pigs eat it right. And so if you happen to be in a place where you get a lot of nuts like hickory nuts and things like that, the pigs take in a lot of a lot of these kind of nut fats and their fat composition after a number of weeks of eating this tends to conform more to these. He's not fat ratios, and the fat gets softer, right, which is bad actually for certain sausages where you want the back fat to be very hard, but amazing for things like ham, and the closest American ham that I've had to the empirical fed the berakha Bo to fed America which they feed off of, you know, chestnuts falling from the trees in the HESA in Spain. And so the amazing thing about that isn't just that those guys in Spain are good at curing about curing their meats is that the actual composition of the fats is altered by the by the chestnuts that they're eating and it just has this amazing acorns rather. Chestnuts what thanks for all my brain today. I don't know for hell's wrong with me. 4242 What years old? Oh yeah, that's a chestnuts to hell. And then acorns. How's wrong me? I shouldn't need to have my head examined anyway. Although chestnuts would be delicious, and Chestnut fed hogs are also delicious. But anyway, if they're eating nuts, they get this kind of soft and amazing fat. And I had one from Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, what that was telling me they were the pigs had been feeding they were Tamworth hogs and had been feeding on these hickory nuts are falling off the trees and it was from a fat composition standpoint, probably the most amazing American country ham I've ever had. So take that for what it is. I'm sure that your hands are delicious if you're making it that way. Yeah. Dilip Rao writes in his uh, his Twitter handle is at leapers 500. There's 499 Other leapers out there. What is the leaper? I don't know. Do you know what a lever is? I don't know. I don't know. Okay. Okay, he's going to Coachella, which is a three day concert. And he's camping with a gas stove for three days, and trying to find trying to figure out food and drinks, here's what I would do. So the issue is, if you were to use normal ice cubes, right, you'd get a huge amount of to preserve your food. So if so I'm assuming you have big coolers, and you don't want to have to plug anything in. Get giant ice cubes. What I'm saying giant, I don't mean small. I mean, giant, I'm talking big. I'm saying like get a cup bunch of coolers and get ice cubes that are like a foot by a foot blocks. The larger the ice cube, the larger the mass right per surface area and your melt rate is going to be determined in part by how good your igloo cooler is, but also by how much surface area is available for the meltwater to occur. If you have a giant block like that, it should have no problem lasting three days in an adequate cooler, and then you could put your food next to it and then you could chip off pieces of it for making your drinks. Right, especially if you just practice a little bit because it'll be tempered because it'll be zero the whole time. So you'll be able to like chip amazing pieces off of it. So you could do shake and drinks but you could also make amazing stirred drinks with it because your ice is because you're gonna have to buy this ice for someone, right? So you go, you go to whoever is like your local ice sculpture person, you buy a 200 pound block or and you have them sawed into larger into small enough blocks that will fit into the coolers that you have. And then pack again pack the put it on a great so that it's sitting off the bottom so it's not sitting its own water. So you can train off the extra water when you need it, and then have the food sitting next to it. By the way, there's also that's the way that that's the way that in Japan, the hardcore sushi chefs store their fish, they buy big coolers, they fridges, they unplug them because they don't want the air circulating on the inside. And then they put giant blocks of ice in to keep their fish exactly where they want them. So you should be able to keep your food. Good. Unfortunately for you, we don't have you know, you don't have my live torch attachment yet because that would be sick. Now be sick out there because you could you could stay cook that way. It's a little bit of a pain in the butt to cook a steak from zero to zero to 100 that way, but it's it's pretty damn good. But you say you have a I think do you say how to circulator beforehand or you could pre bagged the meats, as long as you can ensure that your rice stays good. You could do a pre cook on a lot of your stuff and then flash grill all your stuff not use that much charcoal if you're allowed to have charcoal, whatever you like, you've been at Coachella. I don't think so. Is that where they had the Tupac Shakur? They had the they had the holographic Tupac. Yes, that was it. That was how hologram Tupac was there last year. Yeah. So who were they going to hologram this year?