Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

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We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

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Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live from British pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn on the heritage Radio Network joined with the entire crew today and it starts with a hammer Lopez Jack and Joe in the engineering booth. How're you guys doing? Hey, Oh, nice. Nice. Nice it's figure of Oh Cody questions to set 184972128 That's 718-497-2128 Okay. Oh, by the way, cooking or other you know, anything's bring related questions. Whatever you got, by the way. I noticed that we had a little bit of a sponsorship club that we were almost brought to you by beer. And it turns out we're brought to you by Hurstbridge grass fed beef. Greatest greatest grass fed beef song as we all know greatest grass fed beef probably ever guess what, what somebody covered it was so we're gonna hear that later today.

We're gonna hear a cover version I think we're gonna play the original first and then we'll rock with the cover a little later. And I

think we should also at some point find out what the Reverend Horton heat is doing these days and see if we can't like get permission from the Reverend Horton heat for the Hearst ranch people to have him play his fabulous song eat steak you remember that song? Let's do it. Yeah, good song good song. What kind of kind of good song anyway but uh initially brought by beer and beer and beef good combo we should do it like a sponsorship beer and beef one day. I can do a beer and beef dish. That's right. Everyone likes everyone likes a you know, a Guinness braised cut of beef every now and well. Not everyone. Michael nakin for one Yeah. Oh, congratulations to him. What happened? He is sweet. I knew that but I had to draw you into it. See that? See, I had to pretend to see how that works. See how you like people out there? Don't know what's anyway whatever. So yes, congratulations to Michael Anakin on being nominated for James beer. Which which category was it vegetarian cookbook? Oh, he better win. Yeah. Cool. Who's against? Do we know some good ones? I don't I can look at it. We want him to win. We want Michael I can buy three books of his for friends. Yeah. With your own money my own money off Amazon Michael Michael, you can't possibly know what an endorsement that is from Queen cheap EULA, Natasha Lopez. I am king Sheila. I am a cheap cheap. She was weird. I'm cheap about some things not about other things. Right. So that that all of that is useless information for you out there. Sorry. Really interesting news. We have a question later having to do with acrylamide in Denmark, which we'll get to later. But I was searching, you know, Denmark and food and problems. And I found something that Natasha is going to particularly enjoy. I don't know why I think that but I think she will. And it goes back to the recent spate of scandals whereby everything and its brother has been contaminated somehow. Right? And so everyone's now like in a complete testing frenzy that the meats that you're getting are not authentic, etc, etc. Like, perhaps your perhaps your lasagna is actually a horse lasagna could be or at least in Europe, so the latest one, which is like super box is new meat scandal pork in shwarma. So it's like more so there's a shawarma? You know, for those who don't know what shwarma is a if you know what a Giro is, it's kind of like their hero. In theory, if you know what a donor kebab is, it's kind of like that. But the last thing you want to be doing is being Muslim, have pork in your shwarma. That's the last thing you want. And so the Imran Shah spokesperson for the Islamic society in Denmark told the online daily politican VK it is by no means a minor infraction. This is a huge scandal it will cause an outcry among Danish Muslims. Our religion prohibits us from eating pork. Now Muslims will think twice before eating shawarma for fear that they're not adhering to the rules of their faith. Cintia sold as is often this website sold as beef more than 200,000 Muslims currently live in Denmark and shwarma is particularly political popular because it does not traditionally contain pork which is considered unclean by Muslims. However, the Danish veterinary food Veterinary and Food Administration who the heck does veterinary science and food in the same day it's kind of crazy right i mean i want that stuff separate anyway that maybe that's the problem. Yeah, anyway found traces of the Forbidden pork and a fried beef kebab, a product manufactured by andalou curd, the largest supplier shwarma meeting Copenhagen quotes Mustapha Shaheen, the CEO and owner of andalou could, sorry. Oh, anyway, I thought you'd like to read. Sorry. It's not what's not allowed. Obviously, it's not allowed food contamination is not a laughing matter. But what's interesting is that as soon as people start testing, the you know, the pork hits the fan anyway, Rick writes in regarding a feature that we discussed, I think last week, or maybe the week for David the sausage jacking show, I was listening to Episode 180 and Kipling had 118 episodes nuts, in particular segment about cheetah and for those of you that don't know, cheetah is their traditional fermented grain, traditionally corn corn I guess. Although other things you can use roots, not necessarily grain starch, starch fermentations, from South America. And you know, one of the traditional ones is with corn. And in order to get to starch in corn, or any starch really roots wherever cassava, wherever to turn into sugar, so you can ferment them into ethanol, you need to introduce amylase enzymes. One way to do that is to germinate product by you know, letting it grow a little bit and then killing the killing the germs so that you so that you then don't actually, like use up all the sugar that you need. And then you use the enzymes from the germination to convert the starch to sugar mashing. Yeah, and beard to parlance anyway. So point is, is that if you don't match something out, or you don't have something that you can germinate, you have amylase Where's does saliva in your spit? Yeah, so you can choose stuff up. And as traditional in a lot of communities that didn't have the ability or products that contaminate properly. Traditionally, things would be chewed up, and then the saliva would be allowed to work on the product such that you could get the same effect as you did from germinating. Okay, that's what we're that's what we're talking about. Just you don't have to go back and listen to 118 God help you if you have to do that. Okay, I record an episode of a show called brew masters. Where Sam Calagione is I pronounce it collezione What do you think? You're the Italian? Yeah. Although he's from like Delaware, so probably pronounce it differently. at Dogfish Head great brewery. You know, they make some crazy products, but they also make some incredibly delicious products at Dogfish Head made a Cheeto beer where he and his staff chewed the corn spat it out, then added it to the work. And the beer was then served at the Dogfish Head pub in the show. They even tested employees to find those people who saliva had more of the right enzymes needed to break down the corn referred to by Sam as super chewers that informed me so I read one article about them doing this. Here's the thing. So here's the argument of why it's okay to chew up your stuff and spit it out. Your argument is that it you're going to boil, no matter what you're going to boil the word anyway, right? So you're going to kill any, any bacteria or any stuff that's in there. It's going to be rendered harmless by the boiling procedure. Now, I don't really know because I haven't had the time to look up whether or not that's legal or not, like in other words, like whether or not people would actually be okay if you actually listed the steps like I am literally going to put it my mouth chewed up and spit it out. And then I don't know. I mean, like, I'm not saying they didn't serve because clearly they did. And I, you know, I read it was more difficult than then they let on they thought they were going to chew through a bunch of pounds of stuff and nothing flat and it took them forever to chew. It turns out hard work. But the point is, is that regardless of whether or not it's legal, then the question is, is it a good idea to do in your bar, brew pub or establishment and for Dogfish Head clearly because they spend a lot of their time experimenting with old techniques, and you know, ancient brews and ancient beverages for them. It's clearly a necessary step they need to make now step aside and let's say that you're not Dogfish Head. Like is it a wise idea to look on mustaches face? The horrified look on his daughter's face? Seems to tell me that no, it's probably not a good idea. Let me give you I'm gonna get gross here for a sec. Your I would just ask. Yeah, I'm gonna get gross here. Right. Okay, so you're literally spitting into something. You're gonna serve somebody, right? Okay, and if you're gonna boil it, that wouldn't be okay. Right, right. Right now. Ready for the gross? Like, what are the analog? What if there was an enzyme in poop? That did something right? For instance, Kopi Luwak. Right when you eat kopi luwak coffee beans. They have passed through the gut of a civet cat and been pooped out of the civet cat, their civic cats poop in particular areas, they eat only the choices coffee beans and the enzymes in the digestive system do something to the coffee bean to make it particularly delicious. I've never tasted it, but it's extremely expensive. Right? Okay, so Vario pooping coffee. Now. It's washed and cleaned and sterilized and roasted. So right nonsense. So if a person was to eat coffee beans and poop them out, would that be okay to brew coffee? Would that be okay? No. Right. So that's the question, right? I mean, like, I don't know, I don't know. Interesting question. Kind of interesting question. I don't know, I don't really know, someone told me anyway. More stuff on the torch name. So as long as you know that we're working on a new kind of torch attachment that you attach to the torch and it gets rid of the taste that I associate I called torch taste, which I used to think came from the fuel. But in fact, turns out it comes from just the incredible high heat of a torch. We defuse it, turn it into radiant heat. And we're trying to find a name for this gizmo. You can look on the quick news blog to get an idea what the hell we're talking about. Cool people have written in, by the way asking where they can find the Kickstarter. The reason you can't find is we haven't put it up yet. We're still we haven't done what's called beta testing. So I you know, we've given it to a group of about five or six chefs or 610 chefs. And we're having them test it now to see kind of what they what they think what they think the problems are, what solutions are the problems, we're making it safer, etc, etc. Right, right.

All right. So fun. So it's so fun that Natasha wants to stab me in the eye every morning. Okay? Good. We're all you know, wherever I'm at can be difficult. Okay, so here's some of the names because we had a contest on the names. And I think we're going to probably like we should probably call the contest after this because we've gotten a lot of really good names in and we're pretty sure we're going to go with some combination of Sally press plus something else and we're just focusing on it. So we'll, we'll go through and we'll see whether anyone actually earned the free whatever but we really super appreciate all the names that have been sent in. And I'm going to read the last list of the names that made it more here so guys, remember I have the new T abbreviation of new torch in a nod to the salamander and I have new with T as a capital at the end like I have new because of the witching but you remember I actually have to sell this product like these. So like it's all funny, like it's all funny like these are things that I would come up with as well that I appreciate that I would you know, so there's Pied Piper that works with us he's the Pondmaster he should quit working with us and go just do puns for living and daily new their Sunday Yeah, but anyway or for that yeah, whatever like the weatherman whatever like meteorologists like he could come up with their pawns left and right it'd be awesome at it. But my point is, is that these are all Piper worthy pawns they're great but you know they don't want to necessarily have a product that supposed to be around for years. Barry here's the last list. Cooking issues team this is from JD I tweeted a torch name I decided to email it just to make sure also JD know my art reactor. That's a good name my art reactor but you know again I don't know anyway this is him I realized it doesn't cover all the functionality but I think it'd be cool to pay homage homage pay homage to the technical term and chemist Louis Camille may our famous famous man not famous in his own life the poor sob also what Chef wouldn't want a serious kitchen tool that has a reactor in the name that's actually kind of true. I like reactor I like reactor and if you look up chemistry reactors online they're pretty awesome it's ready for all sorts of name play in the back of the house my yard that puppy give it some more Maya like my actually love the love yard it up etc. Or mired reaction towards Mr. Torch You can call it Mr. Torch or Mr. T for an extremely marketable name. Sure, you can easily get Mr. T to endorse it. And of course the tagline would be a pity the fool, or should I do it? I can't really do Mr. T. I pity the fool who doesn't use my Siri tool. Cheers. JD

I wasn't bad. Yeah.

It's been a long, long time. And I do love Mr. T. Who does if you don't like Mr. T, something wrong with you anyway. Hey, we got a caller. Oh, yeah. All right. Well, okay. Okay. I'll go back to the names of second caller. You're on the air. Hi, Dave, how are you? How's it going? Well,

I have a question. So two questions. The first is I want to get an ISI with. It was wondering, What's your recommendation? As far as the best eyesight with?

Okay, so is this for home or commercial?

Home? Hopefully, commercial use? So kind of both? Yeah.

Okay. So, I mean, I like the ones that first of all, you know, I have worked with with the company in the past. So just, you know, bias there. But I've used I've used the off brand ones before, and they've been given to me and all this stuff. And I have to admit, as much as I hate shilling out for isI here. The off brand ones tend to leak and the seals are cruddy and they just tend not to work as well. So I stick with the name brand ones. I'm sure there's another high quality one out there, but I don't know, then I prefer I've had the home ones that, you know, are plastic on top and stainless elsewhere. And I think the ones that are kind of all stainless with the with the silicone grips are better. Right? So then now the next question is, what size do you want to go with. And now for all purpose uses, I think like either get the half leader or the leader, depending on what kind of volumes you're going to use. Like unless you have a very specific application for the very small one, I wouldn't say it's necessarily that useful. I tend to use litre ones and half liter ones. The you know, the thing is, if you're going to do small amounts in the full liter ones, you might need to dump an extra cartridge in versus if you were using a half liter one. So but if you're not going to do it all the time, it's not that big of a loss. And your capacity is now all of a sudden greater, right. So bear that in mind when you're when you're buying one. And the other thing is, is that in general, unless you have a very specific application where you need to keep something hot or cold for a long time, the thermal whips which are which are insulated, so they look like they hold a liter but they only hold a half liter because they're insulated. They're great if you need to keep something hot for a long time and you don't have access to like a circulator, or Bane Murray where you can just keep it in hot water. But those applications are fairly rare. They're fairly specific. And they upcharge for the thermal whip is very large. Right? Okay, so I mean, and remember anything you can do in a thermo whip, you can do slightly less conveniently, in irregular isI by either sticking it into a hot water bath, or by putting in the fridge one of the two. And if you do if you do by a thermal whip, you still you need to pre chill it or preheat it with a fluid before you dump your initial before you dump your product in or it doesn't doesn't work, right. You know, if you do get the leader, you're gonna have to contend with the fact that you guys got to remember to keep your recipe or anything really any one of them, you have to make sure that your recipes are the same volumes every time when you're doing things like infusions for things like whipped creams and farms doesn't matter as much.

Okay, great. And my second question is, um, I'm trying to mess around with making a guilt target. Okay. I was wondering if you have any advice on how to go about doing that, because I've seen recipes and seen previous chefs that work with make a target from you know, a row. So I'm wondering if you have any advice for making the target

mean regular chicken, egg yolk,

chicken egg yolk, kind of curing them. So they have the same texture series and great buttons like you would Targa?

Well, I mean, ha, so how would you do that? I guess it depends on what you what you want. Right? So I mean, I would look into kind of miso curing of egg yolks and see kind of a miso cured egg yolk and then get the initial cure. The issue is you have to get enough water out of the egg yolk so that it's stable before you undergo the normal kind of dehydration process. Yeah, and I know you probably don't want the flavor. I've never tried it this way. I'm just thinking off the top of my head. It's I've never done it. So you know, just I would look into seeing how the miso cured egg yolks work. I mean, the bonehead easiest way to do it would be probably to cook the egg yolks out at like 64 mold them into a block and then and then with salt and then and then let them dry like bottarga style. I don't mean that's the bonehead easy way to do it. It's not as elegant. I mean, if you want to keep the egg yolk hole, and then grate it later, then you're going to have to do some form of very slow dehydration and salting and then later expose it to air and let it dry out. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, because that's not a recipe for sea urchin the target where they mix You could search

oh yeah to bind

it with sea urchin, and then the curated and then fold it into a mold. And then from there, they did some work wondering if that is an optional search. Okay.

Yeah. Sure. I mean, the question is how much I mean, you know, only is like the eggs, the eggs, the actual eggs are extremely, extremely fine in Hooni. Right, super fine, like, much finer than they are in the fish rows that they make, you know, bottarga from. So presumably, some of them are still hole and then some of them are beat up by the puree, and then and then the tapioca just glues the whole thing together. And then how much they add salt to it? Presumably?

Presumably, yeah, yeah. They buried the buried in kosher salt. I don't think you added any salt to it.

Right. So they buried it in kosher right. Okay, so yeah, so because salt is going through bios, but yeah, I mean, so if it works for that. The problem was, you know, the problem with regular egg yolks is your puree and egg yolk and you puree Guney, Rooney is going to have more structure pureed, so I guess that's why they're adding the tapioca. I mean, like, I don't know whether it's going to super adversely affect the flavor, but just taking the egg yolk up to like 64 or 63 C is going to give you enough structure to have it sit around while it's doing its thing, but I don't know if it changes the structure. And then like I say, if you you can just crack egg yolks into and do miso curing of them because it you know, I've never done it. I've seen it done. Alright, okay, I hope that was, uh, please tweet the cooking issues and tell me what happens when you test this stuff out because it'll give you an idea for future people who asked me.

Great, thank you so much.

Thank you. Have a great day. You too. All right. Okay, back to some torch names was the last one we Oh yeah. Celsius chef writes. And you're like Celsius chef. Yeah, associate chef. Although remember, I still fry in Fahrenheit and I bake in Fahrenheit, but I do all my low temperature work in Celsius. Hey there, David gang. I have the perfect name for your new tool the blow zuca I totally. I totally yell down the line for that just because it's fun to say. Keep up the great work, guys. And how do I find the project on Kickstarter? If I'd like to support sassy chef we'll let you know when we actually have it up. I mean, look, I gotta be honest. I love the name bazooka. I can't actually call it that. But

blows hookah that was my vote by the way. Really? I mean, how could it not be?

That's awesome name I know. Blows zuca Awesome. Like blow zuka Joe, what do you think? Oh,

can we rename Joe Blow zuca Joe and hell yeah.

Can you write a song blow zuka Joe Joe Yeah, Jack and I will collaborate on this. I have it by next week. Hi, sweet. Sweet was it good Joe? Okay. Ollie writes in Hi here a few names for your torch gizmo. First of all, I love the word gizmo. Yeah, I love the word gizmo. I like to blog Gizmodo just because it's called gizmo dough. Anyway. Torch tamer the seer especially if you can also predict the future this by the way was the vote of DAX my son out called it daddy's fear for a long time not knowing what SEER like searing anyway, so he calls it the seer which is I kind of like that but it's like sounds like kind of like really like a cult yes here. Although anyway, the humane torch or the humane torch like the human Oh like Human Torch yeah Human Torch good good comic book reference there any and this Tasha always surprises me. I'm always cooking torch without issues that get it Yeah. And the eye torch. Like could be IRI because it looks like an eye honestly if you're looking to sell more than a few of these find a clever name Suvi torch sell the whole deal torch had included and CV torch will be the top Google search results get like a Google search result and go like that. No matter what you decide. I was standing in line Apple Store style to get one I'm really relatively new to your podcast but I'm burning through 123 Hit day many thanks so they gotta mellow out on listening to this show. You're gonna burn out like we you can't listen to three of us a day. It's not possible. Yeah, right. Yeah. Okay, no more submissions now with the stars. He's so he's so harsh. I got more on this list goes wrong with you. You crazy? Dean when writes in? Hey Anastasia, Dave, Jack and Joe. I'm not sure where you guys are with the gadget names but a gadget to good word. But I had to throw my hat in. I also like to turn through a head and initially I thought about broiling and searing but what you really are doing is applying heat by hand with the precision of an artist so that led to the idea of a brush fire brush, Flash brush torch brush brushes brush. Thanks for the show. Thanks. I love the show and listen to the podcast hoping to hear my name on the next show. Dean knew when here's your name again, Dean Dean when thank you for your submission, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay, for the names. So no more. Five. So should we take a commercial break? All right, first commercial break. strands grass fed beef pasture raised on 150,000 acres in central California.

Hearst ranch grass fed beef free range sustainably produced humane. First ranch grass fed beef, the authentic flavor of the American lives

and your back. Hey, welcome back to you. I thought we're doing the cover. We're gonna close the show with the cover. We're gonna go okay, we have a cover of my favorite grass. Grass fed beef song. Coming to you from Togo, Ghana. Okay, this question in from Buddha regarding baking substitution, Anastasia, Dave, Jack Joe at all? Are there any good substitutes for bacon or pork in recipes for soups or other dishes where they're used mainly as a flavoring and not as a focus? I'm a lifelong vegetarian. And I've never intentionally eaten meat, let alone bacon. Although, you know, you know, everyone knows this. Everyone knows bacon is delicious. So you don't need it. But I mean, obviously, you know that it's delicious, even though you haven't eaten it, because it's just straight up. It's right, right. Yeah. I'm always like, I never intentionally meat, let alone bacon. Normally when I come across a recipe that calls for bacon, ham or pork, I will just leave it out. Obviously, I avoid recipes in which the meat is the bulk or main item. Recently, I've come to realize that this is leaving me with bland recipes that are clearly missing something most likely strong flavor components from the meat. Navy bean soup has this I'm assuming a much the Navy bean soup has I'm assuming a much different flavor profile with and without ham. This most recently came to a head when trying to adapt a cheddar ale recipe I found on the Sirius EEV blog. What can I do to overcome this issue? I'm an ovo lacto vegetarian. So solutions involving dairy or eggs are fine with me. When I've asked for solutions to this among my friends who may be foodies, but not necessarily chefs, the general answer is it can't be done. Or to add some salt, fat and liquid smoke. Thanks for your thoughts. And I hope cooking issues can continues to entertain and enlighten Buddha. Okay, there's a great question. And the issue is, is that a lot of chefs who don't have you know, certain constraints, whether you want to call them constraints or not, but you know, certain ingredient that they won't use, they tend to ignore the problem and say things like, Oh, I just can't do it or just add something, you know, relatively not so good. Like, and by the way, there are good liquid smokes. And obviously smoke is one of the components and bacon is something that you're going to be missing if you don't have Smokings. But there are better ways than using a low quality liquid smoke. High quality liquid smoke is good stuff. But it's also hard to dose liquid smoke if you add a little too much liquid smoke and all of a sudden there's there's problems anyway, back to that. So the question and people are gonna say they ignore it. Me on the other hand, even though I eat bacon, you know, quite often, and I use it a lot as a seasoning meat. I think you know, bacon and country hammer two of my most favorite seasoning needs where you don't actually have to use that much of it to get a good result. But saying what can you do to get around it is to me is an interesting problem and something to solve. So here are my thoughts. What is it that bacon is is adding? So it's adding salt, right? So you need to add salt. It's also adding it's also adding smoke if you're using American bacon, which is why I like American bacon, even in recipes where I shouldn't like American bacon like Italian recipes, where to start, you think you have to use pan cheddar because it's not authentic. And I really don't care if it's authentic because I like the smoke. Right stars. You hate it too. Really? Since when you've been yelling at me for years for years, you should use pinch data, but usually they are the ones that they sell in the store is really bad. Yeah, well, you heard it here first. Yeah, you heard it here. First. It turns out that we're American and we like smoky bacon. Even when we shouldn't Italy the pageant is smoky. It's just not you can't find it here. Whatever. Okay,

did you ever buy that pinch out of the like package? It's so bad.

I've never purchased Oh, man. Oh, never a good book. So Buddha, we're not answering question here. Back to your question. So smoking, this is definitely something you need to replace when you're replacing a smoked ham product or a bacon product. Now, liquid smoke isn't the way to go. So like if you were doing to do a pizza and you wanted it to have a little bit of that component right then For instance, I have to always want to make pizzas I have to make them vegetarian completely vegetarian because my cousin who comes over and eats at my house is vegetarian and won't eat, you know, won't eat meat. So I can't put anchovies into my sauce, which is a normal one of my techniques that I put in and no one's ever complained because it tastes delicious. And it adds a lot of umami and so a meat eater No, no, he won't. Anyway, so smoked mozzarella, right is a good way to add smoke in that form. Or if you're doing a cheddar ale thing, use a smoked cheese but high quality not a crappy one with a spray fake smoke on it. Secondly, smoked paprika or Pantone a fantastic way to add smokiness to a dish so right so those are the hellos do I smoke, there's a lot of anything that you add that is smoked naturally can add some of those smoky flavors, and probably does it in a way that you're gonna like better than just adding straight up liquid smoke, which like I say it's hard to dose and it can, it can go from being too little to all of a sudden being too much. And also a low quality liquid smoke is very monotonic. It has one very characteristic kind of note to it. But part because of the way it's produced. And in part because you can't buy a high quality one usually anyway. Okay. So the other things I mean, salt is obvious, you can add salty things, but I usually like to add salty foods that aren't just adding pure salt, but to also add the umami products that you get the meaty, umami things that you get out of, out of things like bacon. So how do you get that any food that contains amino acids that have been broken down somewhat into smaller, tasty, you know, poly peptides and could break down like protein breakdown products, especially if they'd been cooked to give them some of that cooked flavor that you would get out of cooking bacon and a pan before you add the soup stuff to it, right? Anything that's going to add those flavors is going to make your product better. So that's when you start pulling out like Parmesan cheese being great at something that adds umami because it's been aged for a long, long time. And the proteins have broken down and you get a much richer, more umami feel out of it. Right. tomato products, clearly very high in umami, ground up cured olives, right are excellent. Umami carrying thingamajigs. Also, Liquid Aminos right, so a fermented sauces now that when you think of something to add umami to soups, that your mind probably first goes directly to soy. The problem is if you add soy to a product, all of a sudden it it starts tasting Asian, right? So you can go to different products like coconut Liquid Aminos, or any sort of fermented broken down product where you're getting some of those meeting notes that you would otherwise get from a formatting straight meet. Oh, and obviously, mushrooms. isn't a good am I missing any? No, you're good? Yeah, I mean, like, and so some combination of all of those things, but even just like making sure that you stocked items that allow you to do quick substitutions, like a really high quality smoked payment on like, smoked paprika, and you know, always always, you know, maybe try the coconut Liquid Aminos see what you think. And just, you know, work that way. I think you probably have good luck. Yeah. Okay, Reuben writes in about his home kitchen, hammer, Jack, Joe and Dave, I'm an avid fan of the show. Thanks so much for all your contributions in work and for the sharp truth, which is a drink we do at the bar. It's really just chartreuse and green, chartreuse, and water chilled carbonated with a little bit of clarified lime juice in it, like, like really carbonated. Anyway, Ruben says, that's one tasty beverage. I'm sure the Carthusians would agree. You know, we met the we met the president Anastasia and Piper and I met the president of chartreuse. The other day, and he was kind of hilarious. He like I would like to go visit those monks someday apparently, you know, they can't talk to Carthusians when they're doing their when they're in the monastery. But if you get them outside the monastery, they, they they can talk. Loved it. I loved it. I mean, a movie that they did looked incredibly boring, but I'd love to go visit them, right? Anyway. Whatever. Okay, question. I'm in the conceptual stages of renovating the kitchen in my apartment. As a home cook and devotee of many contemporary techniques discussed here and elsewhere. I'd like to create a work area that is functional for the current state of the art yet flexible enough to incorporate future innovations. I have a small space we don't we all write limited budget. I'm familiar with this problem. And one shot at this much as I'd like I don't have the luxury of putting in a completely Restaurant Style work area that would render my apartment unsalable. This is a huge problem by the way. So like my kitchen at home is ridiculous. And you know, it probably would be an impediment to selling it because I have the huge deep fryer the huge six burner range, all this other stuff. It as wonderful as it is to have new ways to approach cooking it's frustrating that design thinking and ergonomics have seemingly not kept pace. Hearing your recent offhand thoughts about the outdated state of technologies like home refrigeration makes me further concerned that any specialized approach I take might be limiting in the future. Would you share any tips must do's cautionary tale Those are overarching philosophies or nominally related tangents familiar with us I guess you are have faced or anyone you know is faced with similar quandary thanks much, Reuben. Okay, here's the thing. So look at home, you know, I, it's very hard you have to choose whether you're either going to have convenient, like convenient, easy home stuff, or do you have in the past had to choose between easy convenient home stuff. And like hardcore restaurant stuff and the hardcore restaurant stuff has a lot of problems for homes, for instance, regular restaurant, kitchen stoves throw off a boatload of heat, they're not as well insulated. They typically have standing pilots, that means they're running all the time. So in the summertime, they really heat up your house. In fact, in the summertime, I turn the pilot off in my oven, and I just leave my oven off and I do all my cooking in the salamander and on my on my crepe maker for most of the time, because no one wants to have that oven raging during the during the summertime. It's crazy, right? So for some reason, there's a there's a real disconnect. So you know the most of most people at home and I wouldn't recommend getting that even if you could resell your house with it. And by the way, the professional stove like a lot, a lot of people get freaked out by it like they don't especially mine, because it's all PID controlled and like electronic and you have to plug it in and five different places my mind mine in particular is nightmare. But people get weirded out by it, they love the idea of these, you can see the quote, quote marks that my fingers are making the professional style home ones, most of the ones I've used in a professional style home ones are fairly lacking in terms of their output power. However, if you can find like one that's like one of these kind of home professional jobs in a stainless, that has a fairly high output burner, and I don't have any recommendations because I haven't used one at home, I use an old garland that you know, I bought at a restaurant auction for almost nothing. But by the way. Another tack you can take with a limited budget is to go to restaurant auctions, if you live in a place where there's a restaurant auction, get the commercial oven that you actually want, install it. And when it comes time to sell your apartment, throw it away and buy a normal oven to put into your into your kitchen. That's what I plan on doing. Like when I sell my apartment, I'm not going to rip out my oven that it's put in like many many years of good service to me that I bought for $500 including the salamander at an auction, right? I'm just going to hurl it into the abyss or give it to someone who wants it.

Please, it'll be unsafe. I can't actually give it to anyone because so many modifications that I wouldn't want anyone else to have to give it with. What's it called? Well, I don't know what that is. Yeah, well, anyway, yeah, yeah, sure. So I can get I can get my butt handed to me anyway, the point being that you can put that in for very little money if you're willing to put up with the inconvenience and then later put in a new unit. But I wouldn't necessarily go there. But you definitely need good high output burners. If you have a lot of electricity and you don't have a lot of ventilation induction might be the way to go. If your cookware it can stand it. Although I have to say, having grown up I mean, I honestly believe that induction is the wave of the future. But you know, I'm an old school, you know, gas flame fiend. And I don't know that the Indian duction I use induction at work exclusively because we don't have a gas burners at work. And I still I still would feel very sad if I didn't have my gas burners at my house. You know, what about use does? Yeah, definitely, although an electric oven might be the way to go. I mean, it depends on how much modification you're willing to do and how handy you are, I mean, I recommend having a deep fryer only for me, most people wouldn't do that. And that would destroy the resale value of your kitchen. So I wouldn't do that. Although I highly recommend owning one. If you if you want to become a monk of the fry, then you need to have a real fryer. I think that's just the case anyway, but but you're not gonna do that. So it doesn't matter what I would just maximize your counterspace from I would get you know, six burners that can do a really good job that also throttled down to a low enough setting that that you know they're still useful. Make sure your oven has a full sheet pan capacity if you have a full sheet pan capacity oven, and six burners and then you give yourself enough space to have a enough space to have all the ancillary equipment like your circulators or you know counterspace for the vacuum things like this, then I think you're going to be in good shape problem. Also I would throw away here's the big thing I think everyone mistake everyone makes they have all these different kinds of bowls. And all these different kinds of God sees in their kitchen and then they they never know how to use them. They never find them. Like I'll give you the quick example. You have to plan to have space in your kitchen to have this stuff out my old loft. The my pasta machine made the roll You know, the Atlas Pasta Machine roller was bolted to my countertop. So consequently, I made pasta about once a week, once or twice a week, depending I would make pasta, because everything was out. And the amount of time it took me to make the pasta was roughly equivalent to the amount of time it would take me to cook dry pasta because I was so fast because I did it all the time. In my new kitchen, I don't have space, it's not bolted to the counter. I've lived there for 10 years, and in 10 years, I've made pasta 10 times, because the stuffs not out, you need to have so like I think the main problem people make when they're when they're trying to if they want to use something all the time at home, you have to make it convenient. And I would have a mixture of open and closed storage so that your open storage is very fast, you don't have to worry about it, I would throw away all your odd size bowls, I would go to a kitchen supply store and buy inexpensive stainless steel bowls. in four sizes, I would buy six of each size large of a small for museum plus stuff. And then the next size up next size up and a large, I would have stacks of those do not stack them inside of each other, put them next to each other get to like two or three different sizes of stackable, like Pyrex is or measuring cups in two different sides and have those things out so that they work and get like you know, easy to use things for like bulk storage of flour that sealed properly so that you don't get vermin problems. And like that's like the biggest that's like the biggest thing, you know what I mean? Like keeping those stuff in and out and being able to grab those things very quickly, then make like I say, make sure you have enough room for your circulator. And make sure you have enough power. The problem with a lot of these new techniques is that you're plugging stuff in and then all of a sudden, you don't have enough power and you're blowing circuit so you're running your Nook at the same time that you're running your rice cooker and if you have an electric pressure cooker and you're starting blowing circuits everywhere, so think about trying to run a few extra circuits and and just make sure you have enough burner work and the last thing I will say is please try to get good ventilation into your kitchen. I have done I shouldn't say this but like illegally vented my kitchen. I put a like a what's the word you know dryer ducts? Yeah, dryer duct so it looks like I have a dryer duct but I've been venting my whole kitchen out of it and you have to be really careful know what you're doing to make sure that you're not causing a fire hazard when you're venting from you know like a kitchen but even if it means just putting a good fan in your window and trying to get the stuff out please make sure you ventilate properly because when you're doing finishing of low temperature meats that you've cooked you generate a lot of smoke and it can be problematic if you don't vent it's just make any sense. All right. So let's take one more commercial break and come back with cooking issues. Whoa