Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

Today's program has been brought to you by white oak pastures a five generation Georgia based beef and poultry farm determined to conduct business in an honorable manner. For more information visit White Oak pastures.com You're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn, if you'd like this program, visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello and welcome to cookie issue. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cookies coming to you late and live in the back of rivers pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to 1245. Joining the studio witness starting to have a look what's How you doing? Good. Good. Got Joe back from on tour. Joe. How you doing?

I'm doing great. How's it going? Guys go? Well,

we have no Jack today because Joe thought he just handled all by himself. Now that he's coming back for there. Oh, Jack's having a beer. That's fine. So Joe, how was the tour?

It was really really great. Yeah, went to lots of awesome cities have never been to before Chicago. Memphis buffalo. Got to, you know, hang out and play some tunes.

So yeah, yeah. Did you have any of the did you have beef on weck when you were in Buffalo?

No, I hate buffalo wings, though. Yeah, right there. Okay,

you know what the thing that didn't travel from Buffalo is beef on weck, which is you take your roast beef. And yeah, the juice the dipping sauce there, but they put it on a roll. And the roll is covered in salt and caraway, which is the wet part of beef on weck. And it's a local kind of buffalo thing. And you know, that area of Northern New York and I don't know why the heck it hasn't spread because that stuff is delicious. Gotta try it again. Next time you're in Buffalo. You'll love Buffalo wings, whatever. I guess you have to have some because that's what they're known for. Because they put the word buffalo in it. But if they'd called it buffalo beef on weck maybe it would have sold more.

Yeah, the marketing was off on that one.

Yeah, no American Dog wack. I don't want that started. He wants to be called beef on weck. Now what about like, like buffalo roast beef sandwich. Yeah, that sounds good. Sounds awesome. Yeah. All right. So buffalo anyone from Buffalo out there? remarket your beef on weck. So how many dates did you play?

We it was six or it was six on the way down. Then we went to South by Southwest. We played five shows in three days at South by Southwest and then drove back cup in three days from I was in Arkansas like two days ago was crazy now are you a crowd surfing sort of fellow or no? Generally yes, but I don't think that it just didn't happen this tour it wasn't it wasn't necessarily me that wasn't feeling I was trying to get everyone hyped it energized and yeah, sometimes it's a little hard some people just you know they're sleepy

well you know a lot about flowing you know what up north so Piper who works with us at the PDX EQ, he was saying that he got mad at a really famous rapper who shall remain nameless who was Busta Rhymes, who went to go play, you know, up near where he lives and Busta Rhymes was mad, because, you know, all these kids were just sitting and listening to you know, him rap. And he's like, bus was like, What the hell get up you? Because I think, you know, and they, you know, the the feeling up there from the Vermonters is that, you know, if we don't want to get up and dance doesn't mean we're not enjoying the music. I don't think they understand that give and take it's hard for someone to give their best concert if there's not a lot of movement in the audience. And I'm saying exactly, yeah. People don't get hey, look, here's the thing, right? Yeah, sure. As a musician, it's your responsibility to kind of go off as hard as you can no matter what the audience is like. But the fact of the matter is, if the audience is into it, they're going to get a better performance period. That's human beings. It's not a record record. Right? You're not a record your person. Exactly. I have feelings, too. Yeah, right. Bingo. So this in Ziploc bags people SC Johnson, A Family Company. So we pops up pride, we pop amps up mod from the number who sent someone who is one of his supporters on the Kickstarter. Because we have gotten a lot of flack over using the ziplock bags, we're doing low temperature cooking, low temperature cooking, most of you I guess, who listen to this know what I'm talking about. It's cooking, usually in a water bath at a very controlled temperature. And usually those temperatures are somewhere in the range of 54 to like 65 degrees Celsius, occasionally higher for certain things for vegetables and whatnot. But anyway, so cooking low temperature with a controlled water bath with Ziploc bags. And this is a technique I've advocated for a long time. And there's been a lot of kerfuffles over it. And I got word from SC Johnson wax, but you're gonna have to stay tuned, because I got a caller I got to deal with caller you're on the air. Hi, Dave, how you doing?

Right, Alvin? How are you? Oh, hey, do well. Good. I just wanted to follow up. I sent him a question of a little while ago about Pop Rocks. Oh, yeah, sure. And so specifically, what I kind of want to do is make a savory pop rock, I was thinking if I use something like isomalt, it'd be half asleep. But I'd like to stop the heck out of it. And what I'm kind of after is like kind of kind of like a mold on large flakes, salt crystal, pops that possible.

Okay, here's how Pop Rocks are made. So when you take when you what they do, what they do is they take sugar, and they heat it and turn it into, you know, to candy temperatures, letting rid of the what's it called the moisture, and they put it under extreme pressure with carbon dioxide at those temperatures, then they let it set under extreme pressure, then when the when they release the extreme pressure, bam, it explodes into pop rocks. And so kind of the crystal type you get is the crystal type you get you can't grow a mold in style crystals in a Pop Rocks kind of a technology. So if you're okay with the crystal structure of Pop Rocks, then you're okay now you can use or I should say you could make I think there's nothing there's nothing that in the chemistry of isomalt. That leaves me to believe otherwise, you could make pop rocks from isomalt. So you could do the Pop Rocks with isomalt. You might put the salt in before you might put the salt in afterwards in the form of powder. But there's nothing to lead me to believe that you can't do that. The problem is, is that I don't see any way that you as an individual even I can't. And I've I've tried. But believe me, I don't think that we can make Pop Rocks on our own. I think there's companies that sell neutral Pop Rocks, which are just sugar that you're supposed to then mix your own flavors in afterwards. Chef rubber, I think sells them. I don't know what their batch size is. There's no reason why you couldn't call them and say if I'm willing to buy whatever your minimum batch size is, could you just make it with isomalt? Once you know what I mean, it's not going to ruin their equipment. You know what I'm saying? So it's just convincing whatever curmudgeon it is to do it and they might even be willing to put in some you'd see the flavors have to be heat stable. That's the thing. So if you're going to put a flavor into it, other than salt, which is clearly heat stable, it has to be a heat stable flavor, but there's again, there's nothing unless you were going to put in something crazy that they think they're not gonna be able to clean out of their equipment. I don't see a reason why they wouldn't do it for you assuming that you bought an entire batch from them

20 pounds or yeah, whatever

it is, I don't know. I don't know what their what their size is. Now obviously they'll charge you more for it but I have not figured out a way to do it on your own in a safe manner. So, so far I've never tried it

just because of the pressure needed to set it under you need. You need to have a special battle imagine, right? Oh,

yeah, a lot. You need a lot of? Yes, yeah. It's a special vessel that can withstand heat at an elevated pressure. Now, you know what? I've done like 100? Yes, or No, I think it's I forget, it's been a long time since I've looked it up. I think it's higher. The highest I've ever set something with co2 is 125 psi. When I was doing, I was doing jello shots, and I set them at 125 psi. And that is a sharp bubble, but it's not. You remember, when you're when you're doing candy, the temperatures at a candy are much, much higher. You could look you could try it. You could the problem is you can't do it in normal soda bottle because soda bottle can't withstand that kind of pressure, right? Sorry, sorry, temperature. Here's what you could do. You could melt if you have a Cornelius keg. Prom is Cornelius kegs only go up to about 125 psi. So what you would do is you'd melt out your candy, and then you'd keep it hot, then you'd throw it into your Cornelius keg, put under as high pressure as the Cornelius keg can take and then shake it back and forth to agitate it and let it set. I think that's safe, right? Because it's all stainless, it's down at the bottom. It's going to be a nightmare to clean. But I don't think 125 psi is going to cut it. I mean, you can look it up and see. But I don't think 125 psi is going to cut it. Cool. Thanks. No, no problem. But if you do try it. Remember, check to make sure you think it's safe beforehand, because I'm just thinking of this off the top of my head. But if you do try it and you're successful, that's something everyone would want to know. So please send it on him. Hello, thanks. Alright. See you soon. Okay, back to SC Johnson wax. A Family Company. Yes, yeah. So anyway, what that means is they're not publicly owned, they're run by a family. So the problem is, is that SC Johnson got back to a grant aid kits because of a video he was doing, you know, for millennia, using Ziploc bags and low temperature cooking and said don't do that. At least that's what the word on the street is. And by word on the street, meaning Grant told me that. So then after that, there's a number of other chefs who were saying that, you know, their impression is that ziplocks were unsafe to cook in X, Y, and Z. And then because it became known that SC Johnson wasn't supporting it, a lot of other people were wondering why it wasn't supported. Long story short, I called up SC Johnson wax and SC Johnson wax, either the person who picks up the phone was like, you know, press that big giant oh my god, someone's asking me a question that I need to ask one of my superiors about and they kept pushing that big red button. I went up the chain until I finally got in touch with Michelle Johnson. I think No relation. I don't know. I don't know whether she is a Johnson from the SC Johnson. It is fairly company but I don't know if she happens to be in the family. So here's what I said to her. She asked you know who who who from SC Johnson told me not to use ziplocks here's my exact email to her. Howdy, Michelle. I was not contacted by SC Johnson, A chef colleague named Grant Aikens was there several other chefs who also warned against using zip locks in a low temperature cooking and the word on the street is that SC Johnson does not support low temperature cooking and ciplox Probably because of the presumed contact with Grant. Here's what I know this is me writing zip locks are made of polyethylene with no plasticizers added zip locks have a minimum of residual solvents compared with other polyethylene foodgrade films I've used. Zip locks are rated by sCJ for reheating foods, and zip locks are not rated for boiling primarily because of structural integrity issues, not toxicity issues. Low temperature cooking uses thermostatically controlled water baths that are accurate to within 0.2 degrees Celsius and the applications using zip locks are always done at temperatures below 65 C could put their official stamp of approval on the use of bags or explain why I shouldn't teach people this technique best Dave and here's what I heard back. Ready. This is from this is from Miss Johnson. Here's what they are. Ziploc This is directly from SC Johnson wax, A Family Company. Ziploc brand bags are designed to withheld being held in high temperature water including being used up to 82 degrees Celsius for up to 72 hours boiling. So that's it so I mean, I wouldn't boil them but and I gave her the I gave her the number 82 So you know that's where she might go a little bit higher but there it is direct they are okay with the Ziploc brand bags designed to with stand being held in high temperature water including being used up to 82 for up to 72 hours bang baby Bang Bang There you go safe to use according to the company, safe to use as far as I know. The one thing that I caution on is that they are not good for law. long term preservation, I wouldn't count on them as being oxygen barriers in the way that you count on another bag. And especially because you're not packing it using a vacuum, you're packing it using the water technique. But that's good news. Right? It's great news. So someone please come back at me and tell me why I'm wrong. Call me an idiot. I'm sure you will. It Dave. I think we have another caller. Oh, yeah. Caller you're on the air.

Hey, Dave, and crew. It's Brian San Francisco. How are you

doing? All right, how you doing? Good.

So I'm looking on ideas in food. And you can probably Google it at the same time as I am. And they have a recipe for Meyer lemon vinegar there. And they say they take cut lemons, water, sugar, and knees, and then throw them together for a few days. And a vat of liquid starts bubbling, then they strain out the solids and let the fermentation begin in the open air. And my question is, this is a pretty unique way of making vinegar. I've never seen this, this this before. Usually, you know, you have the vinegar mother, and some old wine. And so this is trying to create I guess a lemon wine. First with sugar. And so my questions are. What do you what do you think of this? And can I just use regular old yeast? Or do I need special kind of yeast like champagne yeast or something like that. And then they take the all the solid and separately a lack of firmness and with onions and salt and pepper flakes as I guess some kind of condiments. So what do you think that this method for making like fruit vinegars, like this lemon and how much sugar? Should I use? What I need that?

Right? Well, I mean as to what yeast to use, I mean, I haven't studied the effect of different yeast on vinegar production. But for everyone who doesn't know how vinegar is made, here's what happens. You take some form of sugar, some form of fermentable, you ferment it into alcohol first, right? And, and then after that you acetyl bacteria takes over and acetic factor each the alcohol that's produced and turns it into acetic acid, which is vinegar. That's why Vinegar has a low alcohol content. And that's why when you leave wine open, it turns to vinegar. Now, the tricks with vinegar is that obviously if your alcohol level is too high, then a pseudo factor can't work. And if a pseudo batter can't work, then no vinegar, right? Similarly, if you use preservatives or agents in your fermentation that prevent it from turning that prevent the growth of acetic factor, no vinegar, so So there's a couple of ways that you can go about it. One is the more traditional two step process where you take an alcoholic beverage, and then ferment it with a vinegar mother, or you know, or let it go naturally and produce vinegar, that's two step process. Or you could do a one step process where you convert both the same as same time. So for instance, a kombucha is a roughly a two, you know, a one step vinegar process where you have different strains of yeast and bacteria and different strains of acetyl vactor. Making stuff now they're very particular strains of the seed of bacteria, so they produce kombucha, right and it's not very acidic kombucha compared to vinegar, right. So with their thing, presumably they're adding enough sugar to it, that they're getting the acidity level right in. In a regular fermentation. The yeast is vital to the what particular yeast you use, and the temperature at which you ferment is vital to the end result. Right now, if you use it, if you pitch a yeast with let's say, like Fleischmanns, wherever you happen to have lying around, and you like the result, then the good thing is Fleischmanns. pretty consistent, right? But typically, you wouldn't pitch beer with Fleischmanns, because who would do that? You know what I mean? You'd get you go to a homebrew shop, and you would get you know why yeast like something that you like, like you'd get like, you know, I don't know, some, like, you know, a yeast, it's designed to do like a pale ale or wherever you're working on, you know, and you choose the temperature ratio you're working on. And then they would write this one produces a lot of esters between the temperatures of 60 and 70. You know, Fahrenheit. And so you chose your yeast based on based on that because it's fairly critical to the tape. Now, the other thing is, is that you're not ever typically dealing with a fermentation that starts with such a high level of acidity as a lemon laceration. So I don't know whether that's affected. I don't mean presumably, everything's sugar to it. Yeah, but I mean, like, Yeah, I mean, the yeast is going to mean some yeast is going to be you're going to you're you're changing how the yeast is going to react by increasing the acidity level. I mean, I'm not not saying you're going to kill the yeast but you're going to change it based on how much acidity you're adding. Oh and Elliot, Elliot pappano writes in that What did you say? And stuff just just be asked the question why anyone interrupts speak. Elliott pappadeaux asked ideas and food what kind of yeast for the minor lemon vinegar? Oh, so they're asking so we don't know. And ideas and food said mantra che is that mantra che like, and Elliot said things. That must be a new strain that I'm not familiar with.

I think that's the kind of use that says use for champagne, which might be able to deal with the acidity.

Okay, so that yeah, because champagne champagne must is high and high in acidity there. So there you have it. So yeah, so they're doing that, and they're doing a one step fermentation. But that works. Yes. Whether or not it's going to make you the best possible fruit vinegars that I don't know. I mean, you know, you might want to do traditional ferment the fruit out first, and then and then hit it with, hit it with your receipt of vector. They're clearly also using wild to see tobacco strains, because they're not adding a vinegar mother to it, unless they added some live integrated, they already have to kick off the fermentation. Did they do that?

Doesn't say that they've done that at all here,

right? So

you know, maybe they need to let it get alcoholic enough first and then and then add the vinegar mother?

Well, there's not going to be a lot of there's not going to be a lot of acetic fermentation at first because once you have a vigorous alcohol fermentation going, there's constantly producing carbon dioxide. And the layer of carbon dioxide that's forming on top of the fermentation will prevent aceto bacteria from growing because it's the tobacco needs oxygen. That's why if you go to a distillery, they can have these giant vats of things that are fermenting in the open air without them turning to vinegar, because there's a constant production of carbon dioxide on the top.

Okay, this sounds like to me fun experiment.

Yeah. Tweet us, tweet us over and tell us how it works.

Okay, cool. Thanks. Oh, what a question, how much sugar do you think I would need to add in order to get it going?

That's a good question. I mean, just don't go too high. It's been a long time since I've looked up the bricks that you need to add to something. I mean, I would probably have somewhere in the area of like fruit juices are usually somewhere at like 1415 bricks, something like that. So maybe somewhere in that range. Okay. Thanks. All right, cool. Thanks. All right. Elliot Carbonell wrote in before regarding caramelized tomatoes. I tried pressure cooking and I couldn't recon it full pressure, which is 15 psi second ring home canned tomatoes for 40 minutes over the weekend, I use three quarts of product which yielded to two quarts of flesh and one quart of juice. I only added the flesh to the pot with one onion, one head of garlic and three grams of baking soda. The result I was looking for was caramelized tomato sauce. But what I produce is more of a nicely flavored soup, will I be able to achieve the desired effect using the technique but adding time or lowering the pH? Well, I mean, I assume you mean raising the pH so you're adding the baking soda to you're adding the baking soda the tomato to raise the pH when you're pressure cooking and the reason to raise the pH when you're pressure cooking. I love what they do in Modernist Cuisine for their butternut squash whatever it is they do in that thing is to by raising the pH by making it more alkaline, you are shifting the temperature at which mild reactions happen to lower temperatures such as those that happen inside of a pressure cooker and things do get appreciably brown are in a pressure cooker due to mild reactions. Over fairly short periods of time. However, tomatoes are an extremely, extremely acidic product. So a couple teaspoons of baking soda, I don't think is going to cut it and make it more caramelized. In fact, it's interesting. If you look at I was looking at the Women's Christian Temperance Union cookbook from 1900 from Kansas City because of a separate thing I'm working on. And what was interesting to me is that I looked at a couple of their tomato soup recipes and all the tomato soup recipes that use milk in them they have baking soda added and the reason they have baking soda added it there is to decrease the acidity so that the milk won't curdle presumably, it's really actually interesting. I don't have time anymore to read old cookbooks. But you know I used to read constantly read old cookbooks and try and steal ideas that have become lost over time but anyway, so I don't think that the baking soda is going to help in that here's what I would do. I would pre caramelize your potatoes, tomatoes potatoes, Don's I would pre caramelize your tomatoes before you do anything I would just cut the tomatoes in half roast until you get rid of a lot of the liquid and they start turning kind of dark and caramelized and then blend those in to make your to make your product because I think you're going to need to just reduce the water enough to get it to get that caramelized stuff before you make the soup and then pressure cooker I think it'd be delicious. What do you think says I think it sounds good. See if that works. Let me know. Now I got another question in this one is very be interesting. I love questions like this because I had not thought about it before, unfortunately, because it turns out it's a huge issue and I haven't thought about it before. I'm not gonna be able to answer it today but here it is. I want everyone to be thinking about this because very interesting. Mark Dinkelman writes in Thai cooking issues crew mark from Philadelphia here. My question is about nanoparticles. I've seen a few articles here and there and I gathered their food additives that are used in some industrial food to enhance flavor and texture, and that they may be dangerous to health. I haven't seen anything that satisfactory explains what they are how they made. So my questions are what are they? One could they be made or used in professional kitchen? And what good would they be for? Thanks, Mark Templeman. Okay. I have to admit, I got so entranced with it thinking about the safety aspects of it that I haven't thought about how to make them yet or what they will be good for. But nanoparticle, for those of you that don't know are just extremely small and usually very even sized particles and they can be made a bunch of different ways they can be made through like vapor deposition, that sort of goes from a vapor to, to you know, to a solid at very, you know, very controlled way such the particles are small, they can be made. by grinding, if you happen to have a grinding thing that they can grind well enough, although that's, you know, you don't I don't know when does that is normal, they can be made, but the easiest way I think that we would ever be able to make them is by making a motions with very fine particle sizes. And then when something's in an emulsion form, shifting it from a liquid to a solid so that the the, the droplets that are emulsified in all of a sudden become a solid again. So it's sol gel change, right, then breaking the emulsion and you get the nanoparticles out. And I think that's how the majority of the nanoparticles that you know, except for I guess things like the titanium I don't know how to make the titanium dioxide nanoparticles, which are the ones that are used in toothpaste to make things really bright. And they're used in sunscreen to shield you from the sun titanium dioxide nanoparticles anyway. And I don't know how to do silver, but the one that we'd be most likely to be able to make is ones that are based on sol gel transformations like that. Here's the issue. That's interesting. And I hadn't thought about it, I started researching kind of safety and nanoparticles because to be honest, I'd never thought about it before. And it what's interesting is, is that you can take something that is safe to use that is a safe product. And by decreasing its size sufficiently, you change the way it's absorbed in the body so that it might no longer be safe. Right? And the problem with it is and the reason I don't have an answer is that I'm going to have to spend a long time researching this because most of the articles that are anti them. Anti nanoparticles in food are written by people that I think are biased. And most articles that are saying that you shouldn't worry about nanoparticles and food also come from people that are biased so far that I found. And so I haven't been able to do enough research for my own. My own feeling to be able to make any statement one way or the other. But it definitely is something that I think needs to be looked at more than it is now like what are these things doing? Right? Anyway, so thanks Mark, and I will look more into it and expect to hear more blathering when I finally figured out what I think. Right. Peter Hirshman writes in about a name. instance, you can find the email address preceding the comments so I don't know who he sent it to. But here it is. The new torch tip appears to work by radiating infrared at this talking about the torch that we're building by radiating infrared and near infrared radiation and makes it similar to an old fashioned French Salamander. It was heated in a fire until red hot and then held over the food. The French name will be something like Salamanca Madame would wouldn't work with American audiences. Yeah, no crab wouldn't work with it. So how about salamander 21/21 century Salamander? Well, everyone knows I like Sally maybe Sally 21 I like Sally because it sounds friendly. Hey, Sally sounds friendly Salamander. By the way, I don't know if I talked about this already Salamander. I use I was taught when I was learning cooking that it was called a salamander because it used to have like a some of them had a shape that was similar to salamander but I don't think it's that from my research salamanders because of the markings on them. I've had a linked salamander that you know, the newt like amphibian has had a link with fire since since recorded since recorded history because I think because of the markings on it. So it's it used to be thought that salamanders were impervious to flame. And in fact, there were fake. People used to sell coats made out of salamander wool and everyone has seen a salamander knows they don't have wool or hair. But you know, Europeans were some dumb back in the Middle Ages. So like they would import salamander wool coats from from east from, you know, from what the time is called the Orient. You know what it was made out of stuff, no asbestos. So if we were having these like asbestos things, and then when they would get dirty because Europeans are dirty back then hey, no offense, if they would, like throw them into the fire and they would get clean that way. It's pretty pretty, pretty cool. Yeah. Anyway, so I met Sally 21. Anyway, well think about it. Here's hoping that sales are good. So it doesn't become a endangered species. Thanks, Peter. Okay, Bob Berry out barrier tour, which I got right last time, but probably not this time writes back in, in response to a couple things we had on our show before. In response to the recent cooking issues inquiry about food science textbooks, I have found that fentimans Food Chemistry is helpful and accessible. If you have a chemistry background that is I have that book. It's pretty good. I have an older version of it. And you can find it online pretty well if you want to look through it before you buy and Fantomas is available extremely cheaply on AB e books or on bookfinder.com If you're willing to get an older version of it, that's how I got mine. I also own a PDF because that's how I roll anyway. Also, I started with Modernist Cuisine at home, which I found impressive but was blown away by the detail found in the five volume version. It is well worth the investment for anyone with a serious interest in cooking science, having spent nearly the same amount for a single volume medical textbooks. It's a bargain. This is also Myhrvold point, that if you go out to a super expensive meal, you can afford to buy Modernist Cuisine and it's worth it they he actually said that to me, almost verbatim. And second question, this is a response a second comment rather, this is in response to a podcast from a few months ago. The polycarbonate tub provided by William Sonoma with the polystyrene circulator is not the same tub that the PolyScience sends out on their website. The pre cut polycarbonate lid sold and the Poly Science website will not fit the William Sonoma tub. Fortunately, any restaurant supply store that sells Cambro containers sells a lid for the William Sonoma tub which is soft and not soft enough to cut a circulator a hole with a pair of heavy duty scissors. I believe I paid $7 for it. So it's worth it's seven bucks. Although I tell you the ones that I get cannot be cut with. Oh, I don't know what the William Sonoma one is. The weaves no one has that little plasticky one that fits on top the red kind those can be cut with scissors if you have the tubs that we use that are also made by Cambro those lids can't be cut with scissors so I think it depends on which kind you have. But anyway, thanks. Thanks for that tip Bob. It's good to know also Steven Rhodes writes in on the name Big fan of the show name when I say name I mean the name of the Kickstarter thing that we're working on the you know the torch thing I thought of a name for the Kickstarter project SEER right what do you think?

You like Sally? And then someone else wrote in on my on my twitter I forget who it was because I don't have my Twitter up but said we should you know what they suggested Sears all and it was like Doug should be Sears all because you like saws off so much and then he did a pound hash thing saying Did I miss anything that I love Sears all it's just that you know some of my partners believe that it sounds like Sears Roebuck and therefore they don't like it but I like Sears all because did the Sears some things Natasha? What is this year? All things right? All things all things. Okay, maybe we should take a quick break and then come back with some blistering finishing off cooking issues.

White Oak pastures is the only farm in the United States that has its own USDA inspected red meat abattoir or slaughterhouse and its own USDA inspected poultry abattoir was lower house, we partner with whole foods to deliver our high quality meat and poultry from Miami, Florida, all the way to Princeton, New Jersey, one family one farm, five generations 145 years of full circle return to sustainable land stewardship. You mean we'll start with you. For more information, please visit our website. White Oak pastures.com.

Like the way that guy says poultry, don't you like the way that man says poultry? Poultry like that ladies, like so. Anyway, I want to go buy some now.

So for next week, it's Jack. Dave, we got a submission for the Hearst ranch commercial. Yeah, contest. Yeah. Sweet. Yeah, I'm gonna play it next week.

As we know, alarming as we know, my my favorite my favorite grass fed beef song. Yeah, by far

it's tough to pick one but

true. Okay. Marty writes in regarding his rice fermentation that we talked about on an earlier show I wrote earlier about my homemade Chinese rice wine tasting like shreddy balls and it stands for rectify the problem by incubating my fermenter with a terrarium heater pack huge difference. So the problem was he was doing it at too low temperature too long as we suspected. But the resulting brew is still cloudy and I have the issue of spirits a slight effervescent carbonation. So my questions are as follows. I'm fermenting the wine in a water sealed pickle fermenter Is that better or worse than fermenting in an open pot open pot will have less pressure in it but you're not sealing it probably enough to keep the you're not probably sealing it enough to keep in the brain fried my brain fried keeping the co2 and plus some air needs to get to it for that fermentation to work I think, although maybe not. i It's been a long time since I've looked at it. But I don't think that's causing your spritz Enos. Is there a way to prevent the carbonation it's annoying to meet No, you can you can if you let it vent off enough as long as you're making sure that no aceto bacteria is going to grow in it to make it more acidic, then you can let the carbonation go off or you could just apply a vacuum to it and zip the zip the carbon dioxide right out of it like I did like we do with with champagne when we're testing it. Is the cloudiness of flaw. Can I clarify the wine I tried to filter it through coffee filters, but nothing came out I have no access to a centrifuge. Whether or not you can clarify it depends on what the cloud in and says unfortunately, I suspect that what is causing the cloudiness in your case is starch. And starch isn't very well clarified by techniques like ag or clarification, as well as the as well as other cloudy things are like proteins. But if it is starch, it will settle if you let it sit for a you know, like a week or two. It should settle out and then you could probably do can't declare stuff off the top but it's not a flaw. If it's not starch, then you could just do an ag or clarification going to cooking up his website, which is working again, thanks to Paul Adams, our buddy. You can look up clarification techniques and get a technique with ag bar that doesn't require a centrifuge. Now here's what I'm really cool like this a lot more than Madsen wrote in last week about quail eggs do we speak them? Or do we write I think he wrote he wrote and you know what I said was please someone run the experiment. The experiment was can you put the quail eggs in an ISI container him with nitrous and ventum real quick to make appeal easier. And he ran the experiment? How awesome is that? So here it is. He writes thanks for your answer my quarterly question hate to be rough on you. But your pronunciation was not entirely spot on. Morton Morton Matson. What do you think? I don't know. I don't know. He's like, Well, Danish can be a tongue twister for non Danes to no worries. At least you did not torture my name. I read through the article you suggested and found it quite informative. I told them an article about peeling eggs right. Back to the issue at hand. I took your suggestion on using the isi to approximate the pressure change associated with the pressure cooking of eggs. When you mentioned that the critical aspect of the pressure cooking of eggs is the abrupt change in pressure and not the temperature. My thoughts immediately went to the ISI as yours date as well. Needless to say, when I got the chance, I went out and bought a new batch of quail eggs. I followed the recipes from the last time blanched a bunch of eggs in boiling water followed by a cooling step and a second blanching and then circulated the eggs at 63.5 degrees Celsius for a short period. From this point on I split the eggs in three in three things I first I tried to peel directly, these eggs are even harder to peel than I remembered, presumably due to the fact that they were fresh. The second batch I put directly into the ISI canister from the circulator and loaded it within two Oh followed by a violent venting right away this time complete success. These eggs were much easier to peel the membrane and loosen from the egg white and I had no problem peeling these eggs. This solution is really what I was dreaming of. I think it will I will be able to peel every single egg with no breakage using this technique. Lastly, I had one more batch of eggs this one I cooled down I wanted to test if the eggs would do justice fine when loaded cold. While the batch of hot eggs I reason that no end to Oh would dissolve in the eggs. However with the cold eggs this would make a difference. With my small batches of eggs. I think I lean towards this last batch the one that is cold has been the easiest appeal. However, I also realized that I got my period technique honed for each egg, so I would hesitate to make any conclusions on this final point. In the end it seems that this technique works equally well with cold and warm eggs. So it seems that one does not need to worry about egg temperature before the ISI step in summary, I can easily recommend this technique as a shortcut to appealing eggs. I will try the technique with chicken egg for some time. However, this would probably not be nearly as advantageous since eggs are easier to peel to begin with. And since they would canister would only hold a small number of eggs. Thanks for your help. Morton Madsen. Awesome. I love this. Here's a new technique that was we developed with someone who's listened to the show over over the radio. Awesome, awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Okay. Sherry writes in from Vancouver about high temperature bags, greeting Anastasia Dave, and all yes, you do have at least one other dedicated female listener and one with a question at that busted stars no musty. Dykstra says busted whenever you're wrong. He just goes you're busted even if he's busted. But anyway, Dave, a few weeks ago, you mentioned the point of coffee in a backpack is to reduce the amount of fat that's required that you could get about the same temperature as the classic method to obtain the same results. Being a pork belly and pig ears kind of gal meat. If I was a gal, I'd be that kind of gal to intrigued me. My question is from an energy use and equipment wear and tear perspective, would I be better off running my circulator at 90 C for several hours? Or should I put the backpack meat in a hot water in an oven of the same temperature? That's interesting, you could probably see the problem with ovens is that if the localized temperature of the bag gets above boiling, it can melt out but so what we what you could do is put it like a like a bane or a water bath or a roaster on your stovetop and then cook that one at a look. I wouldn't do it in an oven because I think that the bat localized bag temperature might get too high and you might get some melting. But you could definitely do it on a stovetop as that's what I typically do is I do it on the stovetop but I wouldn't try it in an oven just because I can't get if you if you could guarantee that the bag would stay underneath the water the whole time and it wouldn't inflate with air and then the bag would get above the surface of the water. Then I think you could do it. You know what I mean? But I wouldn't I wouldn't do Try it out and I would actually self regulate because the water won't get above boiling because of evaporative cooling inside of the oven. So that would be great but you'd have to make sure that the bag doesn't come up above the surface but it is a pain running circulators at that high temperature especially with larger quantities of stuff and who wants to coffee one thing you know I mean stuff anyway, so good idea. Okay. David Wilkie wrote in also about the name I tried tweeting you but got it wrong. I think you should call it shimmer ASC for all searing i and pronounce it ace, Shimmer ace. What do you think says no, I don't like it. Why do you I don't know. I don't think I don't have likes and dislikes like you do. I don't have likes and dislikes. Uh, you do anyway. Whatever you call it. Uh, can't wait to buy one. Thanks for asking answering my a question a couple weeks ago. Sincerely, Dave Wilkie? Okay, Dorothy, I'm going to rip through these like at some gun. Dorothy Steinberg wrote in from Keith Glen farm and Kitchen Hi, Jack, Dave Anastasia first. You do have female listeners. Another one double busted stars. I'm a middle aged female from Minnesota. You know, I haven't been to Minnesota since I was a little kid and to go back like Minnesota, Minnesota. Well, I when I was a kid, I remember being good. We fished a guy a whole bunch of catfish and no one wanted to eat him so we had to bury him for fertilizer. But that's that was in the 70s What do you want me? I've even sent other likely female listeners to your podcast via my blog spot on top seven food podcasts. We females may not be many. But we are listening, Natasha. Nice, nice. Anyway, my question. I am making Marisa sauce and we'd like to make it shelf stable by waterbath it like a jam. I'm thinking this may not be safe as it does not have enough acid or sugar in it. It is made from rehydrated chili peppers, garlic, spices, lemon juice and grapeseed oil. Do I have to use a pressure cooker? Or can I add a ton of acid to make it shelf stable? Can I get away with water by batching orders or bathing? Or is there a better way? Thanks so much. I do love your show would never miss it. Okay? First of all, because you are at a click if you're if you're working, or if you're at a place you own or whatever. Heath Glen farm and kitchen my assumption and I could be wrong here. So right back if my assumption is wrong, my assumption is you don't want to heap a bunch of preservatives into it. Because clearly you could kill whatever is going to grow in that with preservatives, but assuming that you don't want to add preservatives.