Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

Today's program has been brought to you by s Wallace Edwards and Sons third generation cure masters producing the country's best dry, cured and aged hams bacon and sausage. For more information visit Surrey farms.com You're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn, if you'd like this program visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s more.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. Radio day drinking some Prosecco everyone.

Patrick Martin's random network. Happy Anniversary David Anastasia Michael Harland to Raquel food scene heritage Radio network.org. Mr. Jonathan

sorry, the greenhouse tavern Cleveland, Ohio. Happy anniversary we got we got Joe and Jack in the booth and Estancia the hammer Lopez here, as well as Aaron from the Heritage radio networks development team.

Happy anniversary. We're so proud of you. You're our number one rated show with the awesome to read all these amazing comments from people all around the world being like you are their inspiration and we're honored to have you in our humble little shipping container David.

is in fact a shipping date and such like shut up and pour the Prosecco. It's not usually this late in the day when I have you made me wait till noon. What's wrong with you? Right. Were you drinking all day at Oktoberfest? And you were there? Yes. Yeah, she actually you think you were at Oktoberfest last week during the show are flying back. You are encountering turbulence over Nova Scotia as we were having our show, right?

Ultimate Aryan couple going back to Germany.

She's like half Mexican, half Ukrainian. How do you get out of that? Wow. I'm gonna take my live sobering note today. There was a woman over the weekend 18 year old in England, who was served liquid nitrogen at a bar in a glass. I think that's what happened. You know, it's not totally in yet. And she lost a good portion of her some stomach it was taken out at the hospital because she either consumed actual liquid nitrogen or something that was so hyper frozen with liquid nitrogen, that it caused irreparable damage to the lining of your stomach now I've been getting a lot of a tweet action on this, and a lot of people ask me about it. And the fact of the matter is, is it is exactly akin to a cook, taking a chicken mcnuggets out of a deep fryer with a ladle and serving the Chicken McNugget with the ladle full of deep fried oil. Clearly not a good thing. It's a terrible tragedy this has happened, but it's completely irresponsible practice, and has nothing at all to do with liquid nitrogen. I've used liquid nitrogen daily for years, you know, and dealt with customers, we've had, you know, both the French culinary and a booker and DAX. Everyone knows, we never ever, ever, ever serve actual liquid cryogen to people, and we never serve foods or drinks that are so chilled that they could cause frostbite or any sort of damage on on consumption. And it's actually not that difficult. If you're if you're a practitioner, it's not that difficult to judge whether something has gotten that cold or not. For instance, if your cocktail has become a rock solid, this sucker is too cold to deal with and may cause damage. If you see liquid nitrogen floating around on the surface of your cocktail, there are issues and you should not serve it, it would be clear to any, any, you know, well trained novice practitioner of, you know, liquid nitrogen use, what to do and what not to do. And it's horrible that this has happened. But we hear all sorts of crazy things. Someone sent me a BBC report saying that technology has no place in bars and in kitchens, buddies. The knife is a piece of technology or was back in the day the blender is a piece of technology or was back in the day deep fryers are dangerous. The trick is knowing what you're doing. And you know, having some common sense and respect for the safety of your customers. You know, liquid nitrogen can be used for a bunch of gimmick BS in the bar, or it can be used hopefully as we use it, which is to good effect to get the best freshest infusions, for instance, by doing liquid nitrogen modeling at the bar or by chilling glasses where it's clearly technically the most superior way to do it and has nothing to do with gimmickry. So that's my little hobby ever. A and then A related question. We got a tweet in from in Ben's who saw the demonstration we did at the starships ICC. And he's like, how do you get this liquid nitrogen first of all, I would go ahead and read the safety. The safety information, it's on cooking issues blog, it's formatted weirdly now we're working on it, I know. But the information is still there. Secondly, you get it from a welding supply shop. The cheapest way to get it is in units of 160 180 or 240 liters in large doors. Those doors cost $2,000 I've purchased them us for 1000 but you can also rent one for $35 a month and we ended up paying in those large quantities roughly 70 cents a litre once everything is said and done delivered. It's much much much much much much much much much much much much cheaper than buying smaller quantities like 35 or 40 or 50 litres at a time where they really rake you over the coals for the for the fact of giving you a smaller amount. So any welding supply shop you give them a $2,000 deposit they drop off at Do or do your safety they don't buy the dumb hose that they want to sell send you or sell you to get the liquid nitrogen off. Just make something out of copper. I have all the parts on the Cooking issues website. Alright, that's the positive note about liquid nitrogen feels very

nice. Anyway, it is one of a kind in all the world. It's an honor to have you we'll leave you to be brilliant but happy anniversary.

Thank you so much. Cheers. Cheers Are you did you give Jack and Joe some Prosecco? Or did you totally shuffling on? Holy crap. Holy crap. Terrible, terrible. Call when your questions live to someone 84972128 That's 784972128 Those of you will notice that the we did not have our wonderful cover of vicious vicious vodka today. And that is because it turns out the law sucks. Is that right? Jack?

I would agree with that

the law does. Yeah, because I love that cover.

You know, we're just playing it super safe right now we're gonna look into our publishing rights here and get our T's crossed and I's dotted.

Did I mention that Amos Milburn is dead? I don't know that it does. Anyone can read like the rights when like when can we just use that stuff? Legit that says from the 40s Is it possible that it was run out and then no one re upped it? With the lawyer, gracious. I just want my vicious vodka cover. I don't even want the original anymore. I want the cover now. All right. All right. Okay, question from last week. I did not answer from Joel Gargano regarding vacuum machines and cutting boards. Yo Joel from New Haven again. Hey, New Haven sweet right. Anastacia, sisters up in New Haven. Now at the Yale Hey, you know, Yale got like nuked in the recent US News crap on the crap on US News and we'll put crap on them people unless you work for them out there, in which case I love you. Okay, looking into some new equipment meet a workhorse of a vacuum sealer for my kitchen I've narrowed it down to the Henkelman box or 52, which is a tabletop model made by Henkelman or the Samak s v 14 s double seal bar in a vacuum machines plus but not necessary. Both these units have it but I would like a large chamber to perform aeration techniques like aeration of chocolate to like fitting a fish tub would be good in it. I also like the idea of the vac norm external kit on the Samak to seal up hotel pans of food rather than bagging it. I hope things over a few days normally in bags and would save a cost for sure. What do you think I'll take your opinion on best bang for my buck under six grand in terms of size and durability, feel free to give me what you'd buy. Lastly, any kind of non wood cutting boards I'm sick of the standard cheapy plastic guys and Jack play more Bluto Bluto, Bluto bluedot. All right.

Next week, maybe we can just play

some live bluedot baselines. We were going to do that putting it on putting stuff right. Yeah, anyway. Okay, listen, here's the thing. For those of you that don't know what the hell just happened in terms of the question, let me explain it to you. We're talking about chamber vacuum machines, things that let you do cvwd in a kitchen, they're relatively expensive. The real ones start at around two grand, and go up to like six. When you're selling something in a professional kitchen, and you're doing a lot of packages, what's very important is your ability to not spend all of your time at the vacuum machine, someone who has a large TV program tends to have a bottleneck or production bottleneck at the vacuum machine. Why? Because you have to put a bag in and you're running a cycle and the cycle takes longer than you think. And you usually want to bag things portion by portion if you're going to serve them portion by portion, which means you have to run a bunch of cycles and so you're sitting there for sometimes a long long time to start How long were we bagging that time that we did those cookies for the troops? Oh, ours? Yeah, it was like it was an eight hour shift of bagging alone right. And so what you want to make sure is to spend the extra couple 100 bucks to get to different seal bars in the machine because it's going to chop your bagging time in half when you're doing large things. So when companies usually say when they say dual seal what they what they mean actually isn't that there are two seal bars, they mean that there's two seals on the seal bar itself which is also important because you don't want the bags to leak I recommend getting seal bars to seal bars each one with a double seal and have a one wide normal seal and the other be a sever seal it's going to cut off the floppy parts of the bag because I detest having those floppy bag parts all over everything but you hate that stuff. Yes, she hates it. Well she has bags in general that she hates anything flappy. She hates flappy things hates, like for instance, you know, weird fungal growths on leaves any sort of flappy LiFi thing she hates. Yeah, yeah, true. Okay, so that's what I look for first. Secondly, I'd look for chamber size as you state. You have to just go look at I don't have personal experience with the Henkelman the Samak I looked at and this is no offense to static people if you're listening. They are wildly overpriced. Samak is wildly overpriced. In fact, I asked their rep. I said, Hey, Samak rep, I don't remember his name. He was a European dude, I was like, How's come your machine is so much more expensive than the comparable machine from somebody else. And it wasn't like, you know, this one will cook your breakfast for you or something like that. I didn't really understand why the Samak cost so much more at that time, I don't know if it still costs more, or whether they bought their prices in line with minipack and multibank. So the ones that the three companies that I have the most experience with our college, which is the one you buy, if you want to buy an American product College, and they're fine, I don't like the old college manual ones very much. I use that one at sambar. Because they have multi vac, which was the market leader and probably still is in the US. And they for a long time had kind of the the best programming out there. And they had such a huge chunk of the market, that they didn't do a lot of work to try and maintain chef like love from chefs, they didn't really care about it that much. And in fact, their smaller machines have a sub par chamber size that said their programming was pretty good and they're pretty Robo many PAC has worked a lot on their programming recently, in fact that they have a lot of good programming in the new and the problem is is that sometimes it's a little too complicated like you remember that machine was like what the hell How do you make it go right? But I think that they're they've worked on that and many Pakis has very, very good chamber size for what they do. Now. The thing that you asked about the, the the vac norms right first of all in everywhere, but the US what we call a hotel pan in Europe they call a gastro norm pan, right So, I don't know why we call them hotel pans they call on gastronorm pans. Now regular us hotel pan. If you were to suck a vacuum on, believe me, I've tried this if you suck a vacuum on it, it will crush crush. And so it's useless to use for vacuum sealing so Samak has made or had made for them. A if you look at it looks like a little ziggurat, it's a hotel paired with like steps in it, and the wall of the stainless is much thicker than a standard hotel pan. And they also make like a like a Lexan lid for it with a seal on it so that you can suck a vacuum on the hotel pan itself on this vacuum, this heavy duty hotel pan. And these systems are great. Here's the secret. That system itself has nothing to do with Semak, right? So you can and I've asked Cambro I've asked all the people who make these things every year when I'm at the trade shows. No one knows who I am doesn't matter. So I go to the trade show and I'm like, Hey, listen, have you Why don't you make Why don't you make a hotel pan here in the US that can have a vacuum applied to it. And they always look at me like I'm some sort of an idiot like I'm a moron, you know? Well, well let me yes, okay, Mr. ATIA? Correct, right, that fair. But I happen to be right on this one. And no one knows why it hasn't hasn't been done. But you can just buy the vac norms which are absurdly expensive. Also, from Samak, the lid and the hose and stick it over almost any other vacuum machine companies stuff, so long as you can get to the hole where the air comes in and out of the vacuum chamber so and in a mini pack, that hole is exposed, which sucks most of the time because it means that like when air comes back in, it can blow stuff all over the inside of the chamber. But it can be useful for something like this. So don't think that just because you want a VAT norm that you have to go with Sam X machine, right? I encourage you to go to places that have these look at them, play with them. Henkelman is that the one that Myhrvold recommends? I don't remember he recommended a German brand and starts with an age and I can't remember it German or Austrian or someone who speaks German. You know what I mean? And I think it was Henkelman and he loved it because of the programming but I don't have any personal experience on it. I hope this is a reasonable response. Now on cutting boards. When you say that you're sick of the standard cheapy plastic guys if you're referring to the very hard polyethylene guys that come in different color, I hate those I hate cutting on them. I hate looking at them. I hate touching them. I hate the way that they spin around on my on my surfaces even if I put down the wet paper towel by the way everyone's worried about slipping of their boards put the wet paper towel down does everyone not know that trick? It's like a little wet towel. Put it on the on your counter not so wet. So it's a slip and slide you put the board on top of the board stays the end. We're not done well. If you whatever I'm just saying do that. It's terrible. I don't say it that way I say does because I'm drinking Prosecco at 12 Right. Okay. Little heads up today. Sorry folks. Okay, now the there's there's two basic, higher end but made of plastic because you specified you didn't want a non wood cutting board. I actually love wood. I love wood. And usually I scrub them down with salt at the end of the night and I'm not worried about it. There's also studies that show that you know that you're not going to get sick from using wood but if you can't because you're in a pro kitchen use wood. Here are the two ones that I've come across the one that everyone seems to use that I know is a product called Sandy tough made by tech nor apex. And they won't say what it is they'll just say it's rubber but they won't I looked for about 45 minutes to try and find the composition of the rubber like what kind of rubber it is but I could not find it anywhere and the boards themselves are hideously ugly and crazily heavy. But they they work they work quite well. I don't feel that they hurt my knives at all they do this color that can be sanded which is nice. So you can take a belt sander to them and sand them down when they go but the thicker ones are those get really really really really heavy. They also if you overheat them will warp and if you put them on accidentally on a burner, you'll get scorch marks where you put them on a burner but most boards are like that. The other alternative is a material called high soft which is polyvinyl acetate PVA. PVA is the same stuff that you make Elmers glue is made out of and you can buy boards like this and some it's a Japanese use them called high soft you can get them at Korean and places like that. They are very expensive. They aren't as heavy as I think. I mean, I've never had them side by side my memory because remember we had that when we did all the EKG made tests on the fish we the corn lentes that giant cutting board for starships. You remember that? Anyway, my memory of that giant cutting board is that it didn't it didn't weigh as much as the sandy tuff boards but they are some pricey business. They're very nice and they felt soft on the on the knives and they also supposedly have it they have a nice texture they're non slip and they feel good. It felt good to cut off So I like and a lot of the sushi sushi folks use that. So I hope that helps.

John from Chicago on line six here.

John from Chicago, you're on the air.

Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call. I had a couple of questions for you. When you when you're cooking low temperature for insurance and cooling it down, I guess I just don't know that much about what's what's okay to do in terms of cooling stuff down. And then just seeing the exterior in terms of from a safety standpoint,

from a safety standpoint, okay. Well, again, everything depends on on what you're doing. If you know, for those of you that don't know, when we're saying low temperature, for insurance, we're just cooking the product all the way through to the minimum temperature. And then afterwards, doing an actual full on cook step on it to get a nice exterior. And they cooking this way for insurance tends to produce things that taste more like their classical counterparts, but have a lot of the benefits of low temperature cooking. Okay. So everything depends and also depends on how much of a kind of a nice crust and cooking difference on the crust you want. Does that make sense? So, I mean, if you cook a roast all the way through, so that it's pasteurized, if you're living, you're gonna cook that long to pasteurize the whole thing, then you could chill it down. And then you could chill it all the way down to fridge temp, and then it's, you know, it's done. So you can let it come up to, you know, room temp before you do your finish sere, and then throw it in a hot oven, and you'll be fine. You know what I mean. But a lot depends on what you're going to do. Most of the time, we don't do a full cooldown on a large item, most of the time, we do a partial cooldown, or, you know, like you could soak it for a while at a lower temperature. So for instance, Dave Chang with his chicken, he, he keeps his chicken at 58 degrees, and then does a traditional cook for fried and doesn't traditional cook off in the fryer from 58. And finds that he can get the nice crust without overcooking it, if he's holding it at that at that temperature. So, a lot depends on exactly what you're doing. But from a safety standpoint, a lot, a lot depends on whether the product had been pasteurized or not. Does that make sense?

Yeah, so So if I was doing a duck breast, let's say for 57 for 45 minutes, right? I should be cooling it down and to some extent so that I can so that I can cook and crisp up the skin, right?

Yeah. Okay, so that's a good specific duck breast 57 for 45 minutes is actually enough to pasteurize meat, okay, look, I feel totally comfortable with duck breasts at 57 for 45 minutes, because duck breasts are fairly thin, that come to temperature pretty quickly. There's no food code on on earth that allows you because they consider duck to be poultry. And so you, they normally want you to hit the higher poultry numbers, which doesn't really make a lot of sense. But that is what it is. But from an actual safety standpoint, I think you're fine. What I do usually is a dude 5057 45 and I put them in the fridge, let them cool down. And then when it's time to sear them off, I just do a higher heat than I you know, why just focus the heat directly on the skin and don't worry about the center of it and they come out, they come out great. That's a classic use of low temperature for insurance. So I mean, I would just chill them down in the fridge and you can hold them, you know, as you would any other cook product.

And then follow up. Because I never imagined getting stuff like a student setup. What do you think? Is the next big thing for a home kitchen? Or will it be like the invention down the road that you really look forward to?

Oh, well, oh, by the way to go back it please someone cuz I don't have it in front of me double check before you say it's 100% safe on pasteurization. What the thermal death curves are of salmonella with because that's what they're gonna that's what they're gonna knock you for Ebola, I would look at all the bacteria of interest and how they fare over 45 minutes, you might need to stretch it to an hour or an hour in 10 minutes, depending on how thick your duck breast is and how long you think the internals take to get up to temperature just a safety notes. Look at it. I have it on the blog somewhere. You just have to go find it. I don't have it in my head. Okay, the next the next big thing? I would say, I mean, I want it to be the centrifuge. There's not there's none out there yet. That is fantastic for most people at home. I'm working on it. You know what I mean? I think look, it took us 10 years for the first circulator under 500 bucks to hit the market. And now we're there you know now now we have circulators for 350. And once you hit the 350 mark, once you're below 500 You've now jumped into a whole new planet of what's possible.

My vote would be for a small, small, ultra customizable curing chamber that you can use for cheeses and for you know curing sauce

such that's a good idea though the issue with it is remember, with a curing chamber you're going to want to develop some sort of stability over time with the with the smaller the thing that the the more they're moved by individual batches you know what I mean? And the less you get the effect of kind of the stable micro you know, micro flora and fauna have a have a steady big carrying room but I would be good at it and you know, it could easily be made people sell kits now actually, if you go to Auburn instruments, you can go to them, I've never purchased one from them, but they they sell kits where you can control the humidity and the temperature so you could turn any refrigerator or whatever into a curing chamber but yeah, maybe one that's marketed more directly less less DIY and more marketed directly.

Okay, and then final thing and then I got if you're looking to increase the flavor of appraisers do what are some good tips to keep in mind

low temper regular regular oh well I do your initial brown properly get a lot of extra I you know, I usually start with a really really flavorful stock you know, as my base boil, like do some pre reduction on that you know the stock with with the with the wine basically you know bringing on sauce thing and then you use the right vegetable mix and pre brown your meat before you go. That's that's that's typically what we do.

Any typical other ingredient had ons that can kind of give you a boost.

Well, I mean, it's very if money is no object, you can make the stock with something really crazy fatty and gelatinous. Like like like oxtail, but you know that's, that's if you have money to lay it on fire.

I'll look at the money. Thanks. All right, cool. Thanks a lot. Big time

cooking issues.

You like what you hear so far, support the network and become a member. The membership helps us bring you the best food radio in the world and gives you access to 1000s of dollars and discounts at the sustainably minded businesses that support us to become a member of visit heritage radio network.org today.

Today's program has been brought to you by s Wallace Edwards and Sons Edward Suriano hands are aged to perfection for no less than 400 days and hickory smoked to achieve a deep mahogany color. The Edwards name is well known for its world class aged and cured meats. Their exclusive curing and aging recipe produces a unique flavor profile that enhances the quality characteristics of Berkshire pork. Optimum amounts of pure white fat marbling contribute to a flavor that's a delicate, perfect balance between sweet and salty. For more information visit www dot Surry farms.com. I don't know

that I'd characterize as Wallace Edwards hams as sweet. No, no, they're delicious. What do you mean by sweet? They're not sugary, sweet. No. I mean, no. No, they're not well, to salt. Here's the thing, right? When people are eating American country hands what they do in old school, the American way of eating country hams years ago. And forever. It's because we've inherited our ham eating culture from the from the Brits, right? Is that you take your cured hams and you cook them afterwards. Right. And when you cook an American country ham, you turn it into a salt lake so everyone's idea of American hams being too salty comes from the fact that they're horribly overcooked. And as soon as you overcook it, it's it really is horribly, horribly salty. The other problem is, Americans think that ham should come in thick, thick slices. And this is not because we're used to eating city hams and city hams you can eat and big thick slices because they're pumped full of water. And they're big and they're spongy. Right? Whereas American country ham was never intended to be eaten this way. It was intended to be eaten in in thin pieces, small things as a seasoning over a long period of time. Hence the old joke. What's the definition of eternity? A couple under Virginia ham because they can eat that thing forever. Right? And it's a good way to preserve meat and have it go so people think that American ham is too slow. They just aren't eating it right. You don't agree with me Jack.

I do agree with you. Yeah, I've had Suriano sliced and then kind of chunks of it and it doesn't mean

thin, thin, thin, and you know, and it is saltier than the, you know, European counterparts that were used to like push it to department things like this. But American ham is its own thing. It is what it is, which is why and I'll say it again, even though I probably said it 10 times on the show. Sam Edwards rest was Edwards even though I like him and I love his ham, his, you know, the wigwam, and the one that they do for with heritage meats that Berkshire want to do is delicious. I wish he wouldn't call it Suriano I wish he wouldn't reference a European ham at all because his family has been curing for hundreds of years in you know, in that area of Virginia and it's a product unique to itself and shouldn't be compared to anything else. It's delicious product I love it. You know? I hate the fact that it's compared to a European product. Jax has nothing to say about this because it's a sponsor now. Look, it's like whatever I let you know I like the product is a good product if I want to throw in my two cents and don't get the country ham at Waffle House. Okay, that's fair. You know, the the thing that people don't realize about country ham is that for many, many years, it was seen as a commodity product and so country ham producers, over the decades after World War Two, made a cheaper and cheaper product because it was seen that cost was the driver and they kept on losing their market to city hams and people eating more and more of the spongy city hams. It's a country hasn't really dying out and to try and stay ahead, people will try to make it cheaper and cheaper make it cost less and less push the cure time shorter. And you know, a few people stayed around and made kept on making the product the old way. And we're really keeping a national national food, cultural tradition alive and important one I think, and that's why years ago, you know, actually when we first started as first started the Museum of food and drink, one of the first things I focused on was American country ham and how we're eating it wrong and how a modern way to consume it is to eat it the same way we eat prosciutto which you're seeing now a lot of places like like sambar who has you know, a ham program now but years ago people weren't doing this with American country ham and I think that's what's the new way of eating it and these ham producers I think now realize you know, it's the the Nancy Mahaffey is from Colonel Newsom that the Sam Edwards from s Wallace Edwards are realizing that it's the kind of this new consumption mode is is you know, a good good news for for country Hamza all over the country. I don't know. Whatever. Love it. Okay. Brian writes in from San Francisco about fruit in Hawaii. Hello cooking issues posse. I'm going to Hawaii over Thanksgiving and want to taste some yummy tropical fruit. Is there a brogdale equivalent in Hawaii a tasting farm? If not, which fruit should I be seeking out? And where mostly be in Kuwait? Now listen, Brian, I sorry to say I have never been to Hawaii in my my whole life. Although my wife was born there. It's one of the places I want to go. You have been there's no, no nicer, right? I mean, take a vacation. Now. Because I like I hate. I've said this many times. I hate tropical paradise, except for the fruit, right. And so like, I'd love to go to Hawaii and try the fruit. But unfortunately, I don't have any real recommendations. Because I haven't been there. What I would do is I would go to the Hawaii Hawaii tropical fruit growers website, and try to get in contact with them and see if there's anyone they know. There's a really good website that I've used well not good from a design standpoint, not that we can talk because our thing is always broken. But she has like he or she I don't know why I said she I don't really know who it is. But they have like this weird space thing. And their webs like you don't have like websites have like that weird spacing with the stars and the Milky Way behind it. So it makes it hard to read and all the writings in big bold yellow stuff. You know, I'm talking about stars, and they're like rainbow writing and weird pictures and stuff. Well, there's websites like that. But aside from that, great information, great varieties of fruit and also awesome, awesome links some of the best links on tropical fruit that you can get on the internet. And it's www dot fruit lovers.com. And they have nursery and they sell fruit. Unfortunately, they're closed from October till December 15. So you're out of luck for Thanksgiving visiting those guys. But I tried to contact all these people and find out where to go. I'm sorry that I don't have any kind of a better information mustaches like yeah, you're useless. Pretty much, right? Yeah. Right. Tony Harrison writes in from the mixing bar team in Brazil. Hello, Jack Jonas Dasha and Dave, congratulations on the 100th show. Wow, what a great journey they have to is that is that stay that's obligatory? Well, we'll try it. Unfortunately, later on in the show, we have something that's 100 degrees Celsius. And so you better to keep track of when it's 100 degrees and when it's 100. Show or doesn't matter. Well, we'll see. We'll see what happens. Thank you very much for all the hints, great ideas, inspiration and good laughs keep up the outstanding work. Well, thank you very much. I've got a few questions about pectin x, which is An enzyme that breaks down pectins we use pixie next Ultra SPL from Novozymes. I've got a few questions about picnics for Dave. Not too long ago I got some pick the next room monitors pantry. Whoo hoo used to be a sponsor of our show monitors pantry.com but haven't had much time to play with it. We've tried enzymatic peeling as described on cooking issues blog, but the results weren't great. The stuff didn't peel right, and limes oxidized very quickly. I can't recall the concentration for us right now. But we seal the fruit with quite a few cuts in the skin and put the solution inside a jar under vacuum. The jar was put in a water bath at 40 degrees Celsius to activate the enzyme for quite a long time. Nothing remarkably, really happened before the end of several hours. By then the flavor of the fruit was gone. We did lemons, limes, tangerines, and kumquats what other cool tricks do you recommend for us to try with a SPL that don't require a centrifuge? Okay. Limes aren't I've never had any good luck with limes what you want to do, I want to see what you said here, I wouldn't make a cut on the skin look, unless the unless the actual enzyme is in direct contact with the white part with the albedo of the fruit, you're not going to get a very good result. So when we're working with it, if you want the peel, we peel the fruit in you know kind of nicely cut peels and then bag those in vacuum bag them in a vacuum with with the enzyme right. Then after that's done, the white will be kind of gelatinous and disgusting. The Stacia won't touch it. And that's we take a toothbrush and we run it with a toothbrush under running water and all of the albedo can be kind of wiped away, right? So that's what you do with the peels. lime peel does not work very well. Just telling you right now. Oranges work well. Panello works well. Grapefruit works well. Lemons work. Okay, right now for the fruit itself, the best possible thing to do is to break is to pull the the actual fruit after it's peeled into at least halves and possibly quarters and then bag it so that the actual enzyme can get to the membrane in between in between the fruit and that's when you can get the really good you know, destruction from the enzyme it's very difficult for the enzyme to pierce into the center of the fruit just does not work that way. You have to kind of break it apart. Other tricks to do with SPL I know you're doing a bar, but if you want to do French fries, I use SPL for all of our french fry needs. Right. But I can't think of you can also do clarify. Okay. Let's say you're doing ag are clarification and your ag are clarification isn't working very well, right? Because you're using a puree you're in Brazil, you're getting amazing purees so you don't have a centrifuge fine, but at our clarification very difficult for you to do on very thick items, things like soursop, aka guanabana. So what you want to do is treat the puree with SPL right. Let the SPL sit for a long time it's going to liquefy the puree and make it a lot more liquidy by breaking down the pectin and then your yield when you're doing ag our clarification is going to go way up. So even if you're doing standard ag or clarification because you don't have a centrifuge you can use the SPL to help benefit your clarification results overall Okay. Also tells the cocktail we spoke about trying to wrote about the leftover liquid from peeling. Did you ever give that a try now, you know what? There's so many things we need to try and we just don't have time you have noticed that stars Yeah, days just run away from us. I like you know you have a day and then like you wake up and then the day is gone. It's crazy, right? Okay. So now I'm sorry, I haven't tried it. Read from zymurgy. Right. Same with the problem on lamb. Hey, Dave, this is second time I've done lamb shanks with suevey that 62 degrees Celsius for around 48 hours with a half a percent salt added to each shank. The first time they came out fantastic with no issues while this while this is only the second time for the shakes. I've been doing sushi for almost three years, and I've never encountered what happened to these ones. I was in Whole Foods and they were selling Icelandic land. Who did you know they made lemon? Iceland? No. New Zealand? Yeah. Iceland. Green there. Yes. Right. It's reverse is green. But I mean, I just never knew that Iceland was a big land place. I you know, I know them from financial collapse from York from you know, from, you know, power from what's the what's the geothermal power all that land I did not know. Makes sense, though. Right? Yeah. Okay. About six shakes, assaulted them, show them and vacuum them. I put them in a bath. When the half an hour all the bags began to bloat and float, which I'm going to use that from now on read. I'm using bloated float, that's my new term for that bloat and float, like that bad name, float and float. That's how you that like, I'm never going to do this. I was talking to Jeremiah Bullfrog, one of our chef friends from Miami. And what we need to do is start a website, where it's kind of like, I don't know, like Craigslist or something, but it's just lists of good band names that we're never going to use. And then when people use them, they just check it off. And then then then you know, it's used already, you know, so it's just a huge list of band names, or you know, they could use it for whatever, but mostly it's band names. And then like, we'd like a bulletin float, we just add it to the list. And then someone's like blood and flow. Thanks. And they check it off the enemy.

It's a great idea. Yeah, Jeremiah is awesome, too. He's just here in New York.

Yeah, he's good, man. So when are you guys gonna make that website? I'm never gonna do it.

Put it on the list.

Button float. Alright. Okay, back if we're going to bloat and float, so not knowing what happened I took them out of the bath and place them in an ice bath and shut them down for about an hour and put them in new bags. These two begin to bloat and float so I placed the screen on them and waited them down in the bath. The only thing I can come up with is it the shanks were off gassing or something they were not sitting around in the meat case they came right out of a sealed box and appeared to be as fresh as possible with no off aroma. You never know those Icelandic people never know what they've added to it. Just kidding. Um, as I'm typing this email, they're, they're still in the basket. I cannot comment on the outcome. I just turned them and the bags are not as bloated as before. So I'm still wondering what's happened by the time your show airs, the shank will be done and I will follow up with an additional email to comment on their taste, which has already happened. I appreciate your passing away. The lamb shanks came out fine. For the most part all the shanks came out of the bath, indicating that they were still under vacuum. I've still never encountered this type of initial bloating in the back so any assistance would be appreciated. Read okay. What's interesting about this problem is that your bloat happened in the first 45 minutes. Usually bad bloat, ie bacterial bloat happens after several hours. And the reason for bacterial bloat is if you put a bunch of bags together, and you haven't, you know, pasteurized the outside of those bags versus bacteria. And because the bags are jammed together, it can take hours for the surface temperature in those bags that are clustered too tightly to get up to temperatures where they're killing bacteria and you get lactic acid bacteria usually growing in those bags, and they inflate and they puff up and when you cut them up and they smell awful like blue cheese mixed with sauerkraut mixed with death. They're horrible, right? You smell those right? So yeah, horrible. Which is why typically if you don't know why a bag is bloated, you probably shouldn't eat it. Now, if a bag bloats immediately, ie immediately within 45 minutes or so of putting it in, you're dealing with most probably not a bacterial problem, you're most probably dealing with thermal expansion and release of air. Now, where is this most likely coming from? Think about it, it's two places it can come from one, the bones in your lamb in your lamb shank are hollow and contain air. If you want a bag something with bones like lamb shanks, you're gonna want to suck a serious vacuum on it. So if your product wasn't that cold when it went into the vacuum chamber and you weren't able to suck a hardcore vacuum for a long time on that bone, there's going to be trapped air inside of that bone. And then when you vacuum it that when you vacuum at the air is going to be still there and when you heat it, the air is going to expand out of the bone and puff up your bag which happens all the time when you when you do things with bones and bags, which is why when you have a bone in the bag and you want to do cooking, you have to suck it serious, serious vacuum on it a lot x a lot longer than you would in a normal kind of vacuum sealing scenario. The so that's keep it cold and suck a good vacuum on it. The problem is if you're going to do them something like a chicken bone, the the red crud on the inside of the bone gets sucked out and goes along the meat and it never you know turns unread and so you get this unappetizing, basically inedible for most people because visually they can't get past it redmart called persistent pinking around the outside of the meat. Okay, so the other problem is, is perhaps you had veg in with your lamb shanks right and the veg wasn't fully cooked. Not only there's two things one vegetables aren't going to cook at 62 degrees Celsius even if you left them in there for weeks, so carrots are gonna stay crunchy for the entire time. But uncooked vegetables have a lot of air in them and if you don't suck a long vacuum on it that trapped air inside of those uncooked vegetables will also come out when you're cooking and cause the bag to bloat. My guess is 90% I'm 90% certain that that is the reason this has happened. Meaning Good answer. Good answer. Should we take one more break? No, no keep going. Do you have like five minutes what? You have a call it one? Oh my god. Okay. The people on air do not give a rat's behind about what caused that one I don't care about all right.