Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

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Today's program has been brought to you by fairway market like no other market and New York City institution that sells the best local national and international artisan foods for prices that can't be beat. For more information visit fairway market.com You're listening to heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn, if you like this program visit heritage radio network.org for 1000s More

see you in my dreams Jack is at our new set us now

you know we at Heritage radio here we're doing all original music so the cooking issues name is no longer

so Okay, so they no longer as of now no longer as of now. So basically we Okay, so for those of you that don't know how this works, right? As with all other things in life, theoretically if you use on the air in some sort of program a song you are supposed to pay for it. Right supposed to pay what is it bmi or ascap? Whatever it is. Right, right, Jack, and we decided we didn't want to do that because we're nonprofit. We've got no cash flow.

Cool. We have so many friends that make music. Yeah.

Alright, so now that I know that we're on the air Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave on your host of cooking issues coming to you live a little bit late today from the back of Alberta even later than normal, actually, for the back of Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn, here in the studio witness dacha the envelope is and Jack Enzi, our intrepid engineer, and what is your title over there at the radio Grand Vizier?

That's a cool title, Executive Producer, executive producer.

Do you know, by the way, everyone wants to know what mustaches title is with the organization. And by the way, no one even knows what the organization means. No one knows what company we're talking about. Or what the hell we're talking about cooking issues not really a business right says right so it's hard to have a title there, but you have one. She has the same title across anything she works for. And basically, you can treat her however you want so long as her title is heir apparent.

Yeah, well, you know, I don't really know what like I said when she said this is what she wanted her title to be. And that was her only condition for working. Really, strangely enough, as I said, well, like heir apparent to watch that doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Rice does. Yeah, sure. She's sorry. Okay, Colin, your questions live. 278-497-2128. That's 184972128. So anyway, I just got back from London. merry old merry old England action right. Where I was with Harold McGee. We were at. We were at the kind of the are this year's, you know, I guess last year or the year two years ago, whatever it was the bar wedding of the century was was Audrey Saunders of pegu and Robert Hess of you know, he writes about, you know, bars or you know, bar kind of master writer, thinker. Cocktail boy, I think of his blog rather snail his blog. I don't know. Anyways, so that was the wedding of the bar wedding of the century this year as well, the American Bar wedding of the century. And this one is, you know, Riya, formerly of Pernod Ricard and good friend and Tony conigliaro of 69, Colebrook roads that are townhouse in in the London they're some of my favorite bars in the world. So we went over, I should say, we I went over and Harold McGee also went over and stash was like no crap on it. And okay, I don't know what to say. I don't know. I don't know. What do I know. Anyway, I went over to London for the wedding. But the wedding wasn't in love. It was in the Cotswolds, which was beautiful, but in order to write off the entire trip, Harold, Harold the a, you know what he could do heroin again, I went to the brogdale collection again in Kent favish. And which is for those of you that don't know where the United Kingdom stores all of its fruit Now, I mentioned this in the last show that I was gonna go there that talk about it in general, just quick, quick refresher, quick refresher. So when you're storing fruit, you store it in the form of a tree, right? And so you go there and they actually have all the trees now, if you go to the United States is fruit repositories which run by the good old it's a kind of a governmental plus University effort, right, so our apples are run in conjunction between Cornell University and the United States government and pears and small fruits are in Corvallis. We're gonna go to are you going to that stars are no 202 Portland cocktail week I hope to go to Corvallis which is where the other ones are stored. So here's what I've learned about American fruit collections. They really don't care. They don't care like no one goes there to visit it right? And you can go in there and go absolutely nutty ape crap on the trees and eat as much fruit as you want with almost no supervision this is what I found. Whereas in the brogdale, which is in Kent is not the case they they they don't let you just go go crazy Nana stash and I was it two years ago. We went and we went we went naughty box in the in the orchards and we were able to eat whatever we want. No one gave us any sort of guff because there was literally nobody there. This year. It was pretty hardcore. And we had to sneak around and we got kicked out of the orchards like three times. Yeah, but here's another thing sad to say for all of you English folk out there. This is like and I asked some fruit growers there this is the worst season for taste for British apples and whatnot in in many many many years because they had not enough sunlight and more than usual. Less than average Sun more than more than usual rain and the apples this stars were not this weren't bueno I tasted a bunch. This was a love the brogdale is no offense to the brogdale but the apples just were no love. Right. And I had apples I tasted apples that I knew exactly what it tasted like American apples plus English apples that I knew what they tasted like. So Kocsis I tasted Cox, empires, all these other things. Just none of them. None of them. None of them good. Excellent. Something else. The English prefer their fruit a little more sour than we do. Sour there was speaking of sour there was like, There's no way she she doesn't know anything. So she's not listening. But there's this woman on the tour with us, right? Because I had to take this tour to get out there. So we had to sit around all these people. They care about stuff that Harold and I really just don't care about, like the value of the trees as trees. Heroin are like, look, this is an apple tree. This is a pear tree. Its value lies in the fruit in the fruit, the fruit, and they're all like the horticultural Liberty, Liberty. The statue hates this kind of talk. Some people care about that. Why would you care about that? It's the fruit in order if an apple tree looked like a cup of water, and yet it made a delicious apples, wouldn't you be like apples? No. Talking about the value of the tree that produces the fruit that's so delicious. Right now she didn't care about the deliciousness. First of all, the lady had no taste. I said I picked an apple off of a tree that was so horribly under ripe, it tasted like you're sucking on raw starch. And because apples before they're ripe, they taste very starchy. And they're usually very acidic. And they have very little roundness. So this was this tasted of starch, and malic acid and nothing else. And it was overly hard and you know, like kind of teeth breaking as you chew into it. She loved it. So it just would be fantastic with the fine cheese. And I was like, does like this lady has to be an anomaly and then I asked him around they're like, No, man. No, man. Crazy depressing. Anyway. Caller you're on the air.

Hey, Dave, this Johnny from Memphis, Ken, how you doing?

Doing? All right. How you doing?

Good. Thanks for the intro on suckling pig a few weeks ago. It turned out good.

It turned out well. turned out good.

I'm happy that I had another question for you. All right. And now that you don't need to the assault law aka pork butt are buying important, but before used to be that, right? And if I was kind of like opening up like a book and put herbs like horchata style, then roll it up and Sue beta. I wouldn't need to bind it right.

Okay, so there's, there's two ways to think about it, you don't need to. So brining those two things, three things really, it it, it alters the protein so that they're less apt to get overcooked. Right. And that's the reason why a lot of people do it when they're doing traditional cooking it also and that you don't need to do for sushi, it's not necessary to they do it to flavor the meat. Right? And so, for the flavor, you know, that's still necessary, if that's the flavor you want. But three, it also tends to firm up the meat a little bit and make it taste less like fresh meat. And that's okay. In like a chicken not okay in a piece of steak. And then it's up to you in a piece of pork whether that's okay or not, you know what I mean?

Like all their pork if I have been trouble making like a rule lifestyle friend that put some turns blue termination on it. Yep. And I know it likes gelatin. And if I might through LOD to beat it, and then on the outside maybe I shouldn't use water and like testo spread and set up oil. Does that make any come apart the whole evening?

Okay, so I mean, anytime that there is oil in between. Here's the thing, some oil, I wouldn't go water baits just gonna leak everywhere. I think the oil is not going to be too much of a problem. As long as there's some meat to meat contact. It's not going to be a problem. Which trans contaminants are you using?

Either one I'm adding gelatin or if I'm using the RA, a couple of shapes. I use the GS whichever.

Yeah, you shouldn't need it. I mean, the RM has the casing is a binder you shouldn't need to add it. If you were if it wasn't sticking I guess you could add some or that you know, I mean I would I would keep it if you want to Brian up beforehand I would you could just let it Brian itself be salt it, you know what I mean? Then add the trans contaminates as a powder. I wouldn't I wouldn't go crazy on it. And then the question, was it gonna? Is it gonna? What's gonna happen if you put pesto on it? You need me to meet contact? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you need to meet to meet contact, you could make a you could make a gelatin. You could make a gelatin water herb slurry. And that sucker would glue up. You know what I'm saying?

What I dissolved the transglutaminase end of that and put it in the cryo back, get the air out.

I would make the slurry with the gelatin. Let it you know, cool down till it's not set. But you know, like maybe starting to get thick with the trans contaminates into it. And then spread it on the thing and roll quick. Okay, that's what I would

appreciate you.

All right, let us know. Let us know how it goes. I will. Alright. Thanks for that. But sometimes I didn't come across as too harsh on the on the on the Brits was just a bad year for them. Right? No, you were wonderful. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, okay. I like had to stop just lie so I get off her back. You will Wonderful to hear it. I don't want to hear that. I want to know exactly what happened. Anyways. Okay, got a question in from Phillip Lamont. Hello, Anastasia. And Dave, I just saw your lecture at Harvard and loved it. Nice. Thank you which but they only published the one that we did together. Right. I think the one I did for the students was actually stronger because it was just about it was focused more on the students. So it's about the science and what was going on, you know. Okay. Phillips question. I have a small question about chlorophyll. I've been making an herb mayonnaise lately and I can't get it to stay green longer than one night. I make an herb puree by blanching the herbs and salted water and icing. To keep them cold. I blend those herbs in an ice blender with just enough cold oil. After blending. I had lemon juice or ascorbic acid. Then I had this tomato via Robo Coupe which the subsequent mail was made in is nice green but not for long. Am I just screwed? It's interesting question. I've never I've never I haven't done enough tests with it to know 100% But just kind of off the top of my head and I went back and looked at some of the books that I that I you know that I love to see what their recommendations were now If you specifically want an herb Manny's, ie you want the flavor of the urban and not just an a green mayonnaise, right, so what's most likely happening is, you know, as most people know, there is a there are, there's an enzyme in, in in herbs and many plants called I forget what they call it Polyphenol oxidase is I think is what they're called. And they, when you break herbs, or leaves or anything like that, apples, you release those enzymes that are otherwise locked up, such that they can interact with the rest of the, the juices from the cell, right, some of those things are phenols that get altered by the enzyme, and then can kind of stick together and form colored particles, right. And so that's what's happening. Now, your there's a couple of things that inhibit those enzymes, one are antioxidants, that ascorbic acid. So that's, that's good, and two is heat. So if you heat an herb Blanchett, as you're doing unsalted, blanching and salted water, by the way, it's a good idea because it means we're going to leak less of the color and stuff out of the herbs. So blanching in salted water, very good. Putting it into cold water to stop heating, which was actually break down the chlorophyll, which is a separate problem with browning. That's what happens when you overcook the vegetables, right, and then having ascorbic acid, these are all the things that that I would do. So but let's take a look specifically what you say here, you blanch the stuff in saltwater. And then I said and then blend those in an ice blender with coal oil, I don't think you really need to worry about the coldness of the oil. And you don't need to worry about icing the blender. Okay, you're blending it with the oil there, I guess to get the water oil stuff, right so that when you add it to the mayonnaise, it's not going to break the emulsion. And that seems fine, I guess lemon juice or ascorbic acid that you that you add afterwards also fine. Then add to the Mayo via Robu. Here's what I would say I wouldn't bother with the with the cold, necessarily making cold or icing the blender, make sure you squeeze out the herbs after you blanch them to get rid of any of the stuff that's in them. I would take out stems I would take out the stems but I would also maybe use a different a different method. So you should go read you should find by go to book finder.com. And get the out of print book from Harold McGee, the Curious Cook, which I keep telling him he has to bring back into circulation. And he goes through an entire section in that book about keeping things green, and all the various different interesting ways he's tried to keep pesto and things which is similar problem green. So I definitely recommend, I never recommend reading that. But here's how I would probably do it. If I was going to use your technique I would blanch in water, then I was in cold in the salted water, very salted water, pull it out, shock it, squeeze it, to get all of the stuff out, then directly blend that without added oil with ascorbic acid right away, boom, then after you do that, I would add if you wanted to, I would just start beating that into mayonnaise, and then adding more oil as necessary to get the consistency back. I mean, that's that's what I would do. But also, I think one of your problems is is that you are adding the solids and it might be the solids in there that are causing the problem. Because when I looked at one of my favorite all time cookbooks, which is James Peterson's sauces, which is a very early 90s Classic, it's 1991 it came out. And it's one of my treasured books, one of the sad things about cookbooks and cooking, you know, cookbook and in thinking about books, there's there's lots of books, especially from that era, before cooking was wildly popular among a bunch of people that have just fallen by the wayside and aren't read enough. So you know, some of Bill meals old southern cookbooks, or, or some of those books that aren't read enough these days. And, you know, James Peterson, obviously still famous, but I don't hear as many people talking about his sauces book, which I think is a classic, as you know, as much as they used to now, when you do read the book, by the way, and I recommend you go getting the book, you do see some of the some of the that time in it. So at that time, reduced cream sauces were extremely popular. And so there's a lot of reduced cream sauces in that book that you wouldn't necessarily see on a menu these days. But you just got to you know, whenever you read a really good book like that, you have to filter it through the lens of the time in which it was written anyway, so I looked at what he had to say about it. And you know, he calls it by its French name, sauce vert, a green man is and the way he makes it is to actually make a chlorophyll juice I'll just read you what he says sauce. Green Man is this man is taste the same as basic unflavored minutes because of the way he makes it. Only the color is different. Stir one half of a teaspoon three grams of chlorophyll into one cup of mayonnaise. And to extract the chlorophyll from spinach leaves. See chapter 15 Butter sauces and chlorophyll butter and wine on Don't worry I have that for you so I can redo that as well. If I can get my iPad to stop rotating on me, which I did test it test that it's tested so I won't stay where I want it. Okay okay. Okay, then. So that's what that's what he says you add to chlorophyll and I'll talk about that in a second. He says man is can also be colored directly with the juice from spinach, watercress or parsley. Now here's the technique is going to be important to you because I think this is how you should do it. Blanch the greens in a large pot of rapidly boiling salted water quickly rinse the greens and cold water pat dry and finally grind in a blender or food processor place to puree greens in the middle of the kitchen talent. Here's where he's doing something different from you and tightly wring the juice out into a bowl. This juice can then be used for coloring the mayonnaise. The puree can be combined directly with the mayonnaise and the sauce strand. So and this think about this, this is the way that we make parsley oil, right even if you weren't to follow his directions and blanching, you can you can blanch in quotes. You can blanch herbs directly in oil, right. So you could take your oil, you could heat the oil with herbs in it enough to kill the enzymes that are in the oil without ever putting it in the water, then blend it and then strain out the particles. And that's how we make things like parsley oil and herb oil. So I would do that. Instead. I think it's the solids that you're dealing with. And you could also get rid of the water blanching step, the only issue here is you're gonna have to sprinkle a little extra ascorbic acid into the mayonnaise as it's being made which should dissolve into the water phase and have it be fine. But I think that is the key there is that you're getting rid of the solids and using the juice from it right. And the thing he's not saying is that you can blanch the the herbs directly in oil so long as you're careful. You don't want them to to brown you want the temperature to stay below right around or below the boiling point of water and you can see the bubbles coming up from the herbs and you know when to kind of like mellow it out to stop it from getting too brown. So for completeness sake his recipe for coral chlorophyll butter, chlorophyll butter, this butter is good to have on hand for coloring. Hot sauce is green. Plain chlorophyll can be used for cold sauces. First prepare one ounce of chlorophyll. To do this grind one pound or 500 grams of raw spinach leaves with one half to one cup of water in a blender food processor. Pour the green paste in the center of a clean kitchen towel and twist it to extract the green liquid. Gently heat the green liquid in a saucepan until it coagulates. Strain the liquid through a strainer line with a wet towel. So you got to do that quickly before it turns brown and then gently scrape the chlorophyll away from the inside of the towel with a spoon or a metal spatula. Chlorophyll can be stored in the refrigerator covered with a thin coating of oil. Right so there you go. And very chlorophyll Butterworth chlorophyll with four times its volume of butter. So I don't know whether any of this is helpful, but hopefully some of it is helpful and let us go to our first commercial break.

Submit it there.

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Hi, I'm Steve Jenkins from fairway markets. I've devoted my idiot career to the old ways, the old recipes, the old tools, the old geography of where serious foods come from for centuries, and I've strived to make these wonderful things available to New Yorkers for 37 years. So it's a fait accompli for us to support heritage Radio Network, and I hope you will too, and I hope you'll keep tuning in. For more information, please visit fairway market.com.

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Hey Jack, what did he say? He say my idiot career my whole idiot career.

That's exactly what he said.

My whole idiot career sounds like

have you ever met Steve Jenkins?

He yelled at me once from above the, you know, in the fairway they have like a break by the cheese thing. There's like an upper counter where like they can look down and see what's happening in the Cheese Land. And he yelled at me from that once were you doing? I don't remember I remember being yelled at Z, Z Z, Z pleasant to deal with here at the radio show is great. I love Steve. I mean, I love it. I love what he's done for the cheese world. I thank goodness, many days for his TV career. He was one of the people who, you know, for those of you don't know, Steve Jenkins, or for those of you that think that somehow everyone in America has always cared about cheese while you're wrong. You know, a long time ago, there were a couple of shops in New York, where you could get, you know, cheeses. So you know, you think they're, you know, ze bars for a long time, but fairway, I think, really was one of the leaders in in the 90s and early early 90s, at least in really kind of raising cheese consciousness among a large group of people would you say so? Jack? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah. So I feel that we, we owe Steve Jenkins as a cheese eating culture. A lot. You know, and then, you know, obviously, we have a lot of cheese gurus now. Do you know what I mean? But I think I think we owe him I think we

all always credit Steve to all the people that go on. Insects will be shown.

inspirations. Yeah, yeah. So gotta love them. Thank God for it. It's okay. We have a follow up from Rob Trey Paz who by the way, I now can just pronounce his name because he's had it written in enough I don't need the help and dream trip has we? We had a discussion on the radio program about remodeling vermouth, and here's his follow up. Dave at all. Thanks for your help and insight on my quest to rebuttal my aperitifs and Vermouths he was having a problem with them oxidizing I found that fever tree tonic and ginger ale are bottled in 200 milliliter glass bottles that except a regular caps at Crown Court caps that you can get at any homebrew shop and you could buy the bottler for very little I mean the capper for very little accepting regular caps and it's some champagne splits also take standard bottle caps I thought they all did no, they all did. Yeah look it's not an actual champagne slip bottle if it doesn't take the cap so I don't know what your any non screw top thing should accept it. Okay, the reason why is because that's how they store it normally before they cork it when they're doing the racking stuff anyways, okay, okay. So after and it's convenient that you can pack a fifth into for small bottles. So after a few gin and tonics, horses next and French 75 You know, that's what they used to call. Some of the people in my stepfather's family they all had dumb names for people like mean ones mean nicknames that use behind their back in horse's neck was one for Gerards Great Grandma Well, I have no idea why I have no idea why why they they some of them are unrepeatable on the air. Some of the some of the fact the vast majority of the Addonizio family nicknames are unrepeatable on the on the air. Although they are hilarious Okay, a I collected enough bottles to re bottle my collection, a local wine shop and canned wine preserver gas argon which remember is the good one to use that I used to purge the headspace I experimented with different dispensing techniques to get an effective blanket using a bottle filled with water and a match. There is well you'll see why. One drawback to can gas is that the pressure is high at first and then dissipates as you use it. I found that seven quick sprays towards the south side of the bottle did the trick and I checked my blanket by putting a lit match in the opening just below the crown. If the match went out immediately I reasoned there was no oxygen. I then use the same technique on the four to five fortified wines. When I noticed a different pressure flow out of the can I check the water blank. The attached poor quality cellphone shows the results. Happily I can now keep six small fresh bottles in my refrigerator along with my syrup's and acid adjuster without upsetting the family too much. I also attached a PDF, which is from a wine thing you guys can look it up with some more information on inert gas. Yep. He also a member recommended picking up a copy of fixed a pump by Darcy O'Neill. Remember that? Yeah, he did that and he likes it. So there you have it. Nice. Dad went okay. It's

a really quick question. Sure. This is for me. If I don't refrigerate vermouth, how long? How long is it gonna be?

It's not the refrigeration. That's the problem. Refrigeration slows the changes that are due to oxidation, right? So if you like if you were to actually effectively remove all of the oxygen from where the stuff is, then it shelf life shouldn't be compromised, over regular vermouth, but storing regular vermouth in the fridge is going to prolong its its life after it's been open if you don't remove the oxygen, okay, yeah, man, but I definitely recommend doing it and or buying with most people if they're not, like at the very minimum just buy small bottles of Vermouth. I mean, the real problem is, is that it's usually only the brands that aren't my favorite brands. They come in small bottles, so no one makes small bottles of Carpano they only come in, you know larger things. No one makes small bottles of Dolan, no one makes small bottles of Kochi or all these other things that, you know we like to use. And so it's a problem. If you're a fan of something like martini and Rossi, then those do come in smaller bottles and the cost isn't so high. So you can use it in relatively short order. You don't I mean,

this is another dumb question, but a Morrows are not.

Well, I mean, they know you have to look at the stash look at the technical definition of Amara. Well, he's looking and we'll get back to it. I mean, they can be wine base, right? They have a wine base and then fortify with herbs and extra liquor to get the proof up. But it's not just going to look up like this. The first time ever in a stash is going to look up. What. Well, that's true. I mean, in general in life. Yeah. You You probably didn't hear what she said. Because she wasn't her face wasn't in the microphone, but she was, uh, yeah. All right, we'll get we'll get that we'll get that technical stuff for you, Jack in just a second. We have now these questions. I'm just I'm just reading so I haven't I haven't had time to look at them beforehand. They're they're coming off of off of general Jack's printer somehow made them. Hello, gang. This is from Mike, I have a practical question concerning chili peppers. I frequently handle them when cooking. And by the time I'm finished with prep work, my hands often feel like they're burning. Presumably it has something to do with conversation, which is this you know the heating part the the hot principle in hot peppers. Sometimes I'm smart enough to wear latex gloves. But this isn't always possible. Plus at home, you don't need to wear latex gloves Anyway, do you? Do you have to wear latex as well mustache likes to wear latex gloves when she's cooking. That's some weird stuff. And I want to get into No, I'm making it up. Do you know of any treatment which neutralizes this burning sensation? Sorry for such a housewife. You'd have hate. Don't be insulting the housewives by the way. But my hands really, really hurt right now. Much appreciated. And please keep up the great work, Mike. I don't know. Do you know of any? Like, presumably you have some small nicks and cuts somewhere in your hand. Right? So I would say I don't think rubbing it with oil would help because conversations oil so well. So we'll go into it go into that. I mean, you could try it as kind of a primary thing. But then your hands going to be slippery, you're going to slice the heck out of your hands. I would just look if you only handle as you're cutting if you're careful to only handle the waxy outer cuticle section of the of the pepper, then you're not going to become in contact with the with the with the seeds too much. And probably if after you slice it, you give it a real quick quick rinse and in water to get the stuff off. It might help a little bit but I don't really know. I've never been asked to have this problem fixed. So listen, anyone out there. Please give us your thoughts on if you have problems cutting, cutting, you know red hot pepper, hot chili peppers, and you know of a solution other than latex gloves. Call us in right. All right. And we'll do it next week. All right, next one which also has something to do with Capsaicin is from Rory myrams and Rory writes Hi day from the land down under aka New Zealand. Love the show or listen to the podcast on my walk home from work. It's a long walk. Where does he live? I don't know. But I'm saying it's a long walk if you listen to the podcast it's long long walk I requested regarding the coloring of a capsicum based sauce I'm working on that contains cat capsicum peppers, red pepper presumably red. Although it doesn't necessarily need to be vinegar, sugar, salt and a little ginger and garlic no other additives. The sauces bottling kept while hot and it's a stunning red color. It retains his color well overall. But after a while there's some darkening seen near the tops of the bottles. What is causing this? I assume it is some sort of oxidation. But more importantly, what options do I have to prevent it from happening? Oh shoot, you know what, when I was talking about the herbs here's what I forgot to mention. McGee and his curious cookbook on thing says that even if you even if you destroy the enzymes, the poly phenol oxidase is in the in the herbs by blanching after you make a pesto with them, they will still eventually go brown. And the reason is that the oxidation of those phenols and then their eventual agglomeration into brown colored things will happen even if the enzyme is destroyed, you know, not nearly as much but will happen at a at a much reduced rate. It all depends on the actual reactive reactivity of those phenolic compounds. Because the phenolic compounds aren't destroyed, the enzyme is destroyed. Another interesting thing if you add at fresh enzyme, like any fresh herb at all to the stuff that you've blanched it the enzymes are there and they'll go in their work and their do their dirty brown work. So that might be another thing to look at on the herb thing is the fact that you know, maybe there's some fresher getting into it afterwards or maybe you just get some browning anyway, maybe we need to Blanche a little bit longer to really make sure You kill all the enzyme because enzymes aren't deactivated right away anyway. So back to Roy's question, I assume it's some sort of oxidation, but more importantly, what options do I have to prevent it from happening? Okay, looking at your, at your list, you have capsicum peppers. Vinegar, which is an acid acid should present prevent somewhat Browning because if there are any enzymes in it that are, if it's an enzymatic reaction, the vinegar, the acidity is going to inhibit that sugar, salt and a little ginger or garlic. Okay, but here's the issue you don't have in there. So oxidation is going to take place over a long period of time, regardless of whether or not there are enzymes present. As I just said, what you might want to do is add a little bit of an antioxidant. So vitamin C, ascorbic acid is one that you might try sodium metal by sulfate. Another one you might try, although I don't recommend it, I don't like it. Because the metal sulfates to me they have like kind of a soul free note, like an aroma that I think is unpleasant. I mean, clearly it's, you're, you're bottling it hot. So it's not, not at probably not an enzyme thing. And it's interesting that the discoloration is seen near the top. So it's either a drying effect, which it can't be because it's sealed, or it's oxidation, which is happening at the place where the oxygen is present, aka the top. So I would say if you adding an antioxidant is the way to go. Or if you can, going back to the last question about Vermouths put a an inert gas blanket on the top of it. That might also help you so inert gas blanket on the top. And or an antioxidant I would you know if it was me, I would do both. I don't know what kind of timeline you're talking about to browning. So I don't know kind of how much you can can get rid of. But those are those are my suggestions. What do you think? Good. Good. Oh, if you have time for another quick question. Uh, what would your three must try food joints be in New York while on a budget can be street food vendor takeaway joint reasonably priced restaurant except etc. Thanks for keeping up the good work. So what do you think?

Robert? Is for lunch? Let's say yeah, yeah, I'm gonna Roberta's for

lunch. How much does How much does pop pop cost? No. No, yeah. Jack, you got any good budget joints?

Thinking now? You could do a budget pack. I'll look

up the price. I don't know. I mean, like puck pucks a great restaurant. That's Andy wreckers restaurant. And I don't think the prices were that high. Right. Who else's budget was mustaches? mustache is thinking, right? Yeah. All right, Jack. Are we are we are we about to get the plug pulled? Or should we? We don't have time for another five minutes. I got another five minutes but not not time to see what to have any Twitter questions says no. All right. So we can just live there. I can just blitter for five minutes. Music Did you? Oh, we didn't talk about the music. Yeah, I kind of extra next here's the deal. So we're not allowed to use vicious vicious vodka by Amos Milburn anymore and vicious vicious vodka as some called, which I enjoy we can make our own song called Fishes, fishes vodka. And then, you know, be you know, be all set. But that's probably not going to happen. But here here's here's the thing. So So what Jack wants to do is to have some sort of contest for kind of a user user a listener to say that they you know, have a song they think should be the, what's it called? theme song for the cooking issue show. And then execute. I just bought a bass, a new bass. I haven't played bass in many, many years, but I just bought an acoustic electric bass. And I thought, you know, Jack, and I can come up with some sort of crazy theme song. He says, maybe we should have the listener theme song versus our theme song. Yes, yeah. And then people can vote. They can vote. Especially if we do Fishes, fishes vodka, especially if they choose our theme song and we give them some free heritage, heritage meat. That's right. But now you're discouraging people from entering into entering the thing? Well, I

think we'll probably the people who enter the contest and give us a real submission, we'll get some some pork chops from the Heritage meat shop. If they happen to be in New York.

What are the requirements? Yeah, what are the requirements check? Yeah,

shouldn't be doesn't need to be longer than say a minute and a half and should be cleaned for the radio.

Right? That's words. Right?

Instrumental right. Well, you know what, not necessarily. Words. No, I'm gonna keep it pretty open ended.

Yeah. Like why would you why would it be instrumental like, like, for instance, like, I would be proud to have the Hearst ranch grass fed beef. You know,

we should get him. Right. He should probably come up with your theme song. Why don't we do all the theme song songs for the whole network?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I like the problem is, is it like I'm just a fan of that particular that particular song so, you know, you know her straight grass fed beef. So anyway,

send us your music info at Heritage radio network.org Come up with a theme song doesn't have to be in a certain format. mp3 is best. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. All righty then. So I guess, you know, you're gonna give you 10 More seconds to call in if not, have a good week and we back next week with cooking issues.

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