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Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live every tuesday from the back of Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn at roughly 12 here in the studio today with Natasha hammer, Lopez and Jack and Joe in the engineering booth. How you doing everyone?

Good. You're here early today,

I was here damn early, I've decided that I'm going to come to the studio and do some of my research here. See, typically the reason I'm late is I'm researching whatever the questions are, up until the last possible minute, at which point I get on my bike and come here. And you know, I'm sweating profusely. And remember, the one time I came in, I couldn't breathe. I literally had to go to an early break because I couldn't I could not breathe. Yeah. You know, plus, I have to bike you know, next to a concrete manufacturing plant, which you know, I always inhale, it takes me a good 15 minutes to get all the concrete dust out of my lungs. So I thought to myself being you know, like, why not actually do some of the research here at the freaking studio? Right? Yeah. Does that make me like, it's unusual for me to do something that makes sense. But, you know, there you have it. So I start the research and I'm like, Oh, now, I'll leave it the 10 instead of you know, 1120 On that note, we have a call it Oh, caller you are on the air.

Hi, Dave. It's pretty. Hey, Brady. Hi.

There's my cousin Brady, folks, because Brady, Hayden got a

important question for you. All right. What do you got? The cocktail related? Oh, good. So a cousin of mine is she has this thing where she goes to like a dinner party every month or so with four other couples. And everybody's responsible for bringing in some sort of appetizer and then they rank them by the end of the night and someone is the winner, someone's a runner up etc. And they've come in fifth out of five couples for the past couple of events. And their daughter's beginning to think think of them as losers if you will. So the new one coming up is an adult beverage based on sort of Mexican themed the food is going to be fajitas and everyone brings in a beverage and they want to come in first. Their daughters like we can't have a fifth place finish again.

Now is the daughter going to be concerned consuming the adult beverage? No, she will be home in the babysitter. Now have they enjoyed all of the things they brought before and Have they thought they were good? Or do they acknowledge that they lost? Or did they feel like they were robbed? Because they felt like they were robbed? My suggestion is get new friends.

No See, like the last time I went actually, I was in Boston, I went with them. And they were fifth. I mean, what they brought was still good. And all the food is actually really good. But they weren't fifth, they just are not taking it up a level where you have a couple of to take it really seriously. And they're sort of doing this in their spare time, right before they go. Right. Right. Right. The other thing is, this does not need to be tequila based.

But it is Mexican themed. Yep. Yeah. Well, I mean, okay, so, so these other people are thinking a lot. Are these people? Are they kind of food snobs? Yes, but yes. Okay. So if people are not food snobs, I think it's a very bad idea to make them feel bad to guilt them into giving you points. However, if someone is a food snob, then the best way to win is to pummel them with evidence such that they feel that they are the smallest human beings on earth with their lack of knowledge, in which case, I would suggest making something with an extremely rare mezcal, I will go get an extremely rare Mezcal like a What's that one we carry? Now at the bar? It's like something that almost like it's like super tiny, right? So it's not even that it's more expensive than some of the other stuff. You can get this better known like Dell magway, and all this other stuff don't like. It's just that it's harder to find. And somebody's like, you don't know about this? What? What, you know what I mean? And then like, right and mix with there, but if you're gonna go Mexican man, I wouldn't suggest maybe going with a Mezcal. The there's a, there's always a question of do you want to try to go over the top? Or do you just want to go? Really, really? Just like spot on? I mean, do these people live in New York? No, they live in Boston? Are you going to be up there? Or no,

no, I'm not going to be there live in Westborough. So that sort of western suburb of Boston,

because I was going to say if they really want to do something strange, they could do something similar to you know, at Booker index bar, we have a Mezcal based drink called Son of a peach that has clarified peach juice, and it can peach juice and mezcal. So it's kind of Mexican theme, but doesn't take it's not just a margarita. And you know that. I mean, I think that's probably going to be different from from anything that that's at that point, they could probably go by clarify peach juice and do something similar. I'd have to go get the specs in my head. I can give them to you later. But do you think something like that might might win? I mean, I have a feeling that if everyone's going to do adult, everyone's doing adult beverages, that's just what they have.

No, everyone's doing adult beverages. And I mean, I'm not for sure that everyone's going to do tequila, but if it's Mexican team that can't see that, you know, out of the five couples that for them are gonna think outside the box. And do you know something? That's gin base, but still Mexican and team?

Yeah, I mean, I don't even I'm not sure. I mean, like Eagle soup. Like our friend Evan Clem once did a, you know, corn based beverage as his Mexican themed beverage. I mean, there are all kinds of things you can do. The question is how challenging Do you want to get Do you want to just go kind of like fruit like food knowledge geeky? Do you want to get like you want to be you definitely don't want to go with tequila, you want to go with one of the other Agave based beverages just to you know, kind of be an outlier. Like maybe like Sotol or like really interesting Mezcal. Yeah. You know, I think like, you know, what's in order is like a trip to my well and, you know, here in New York and just like to look at the, their cocktail list and then basically steal some of their ideas. And that's the, that's the the best way to do it. Now. The other question is, is is winning going to be strictly based on on flavor? Or is it going to have to be some sort of strange garnish to pull out a win? Or

the only the criteria for winning is your favorite? You vote for your favorite out of the five okay, and you're not allowed to vote for your own? Of course. So you vote on the other four?

Right? And do people tell stories? Yes, yeah. So you got to beef up on the story, like half of this stuff is the story I can I can I mean, if you serve people things and you have a really good story beforehand, then you know, that makes this stuff actually taste better because you have this big story so I would choose some like some sort of a rare although not necessarily expensive, but more difficult to source or strange spirit I would then choose like an herb or a fruit that is not kind of normal and then everything else can kind of even out like you can just use lime juice if you want to as your as your acidity I would probably do I mean, I think it's interesting to do stirred drinks. I wouldn't necessarily go for a shake and drink like like a margarita just because that's kind of what you're expecting. I would maybe go for a stir drink, which you could probably pull off a little more of the sophistication and that adds a little more to the monocle in the eye food snob kind of vibe that I think when these sorts of things and probably get some sort of a spot on garnish mean you know the poker index we kind of we kind of don't typically do the garnish thing just because we don't want to be labeled as like the you know, the people who you know Do all the fancy tech tarnishes although in this case, it seems like it'd probably be a good idea? Yeah. Yeah, just being helpful or just to general,

no, this is helpful. But to me, she also, she sort of made a point of saying that she does not have liquid nitrogen, you know what I mean? So like they, they can do stuff, but I think if it gets too difficult, they're just going to not, you know, they have two kids.

So if you're going to do a stirred cocktail, the best way to do it to get the temperature almost exactly right is especially if you're going to use a fruit juice. So let's say they're going to use a fruit juice in it, you can't use a fruit juice and spirit and then stir it and then have the temperature, right. Okay, if you store the whole thing in the freezer, then the temperature won't be right, because it's going to be too cold, what they should do is just go buy some two inch Ice Cube cube, freezing things so that they can get like nice, very nice may not like you know, not super clear grade, you know, the style that we use that we pay a lot of money for. But you know, fairly nice ice cubes, get like double old fashioned figure out whatever, garnish the glasses, figure out whatever kind of gunners are going to use freeze the ice cubes and get the liquor base, freeze that and then keep the fruit juice or whatever in, you know, plus whatever water they need in the fridge, then when they mix the freezer, they mix the freezer booze with the fridge. Juice, it'll add up to the exact right temperature in the glass least usually does. And so they can get something it's in perfect condition without a lot of stirring and mess and worrying about it. And that's all they have to do at home is, you know, look to practice is choose the booze, keep it in the freezer, and whatever fruit juices they're going to balance it with in the fridge, do their mix testing, and then and then go but stir drink is going to be easier because it doesn't require a lot of texture, they can pre figure out the the balance they need in terms of dilution, it can all be kind of pre done mixed and then just as long as you have access to that other person's freezer bag, and then a nice two inch ice cube and then you know a good either twist or some sort of fancy fruit as a garnish. And it shouldn't take too much longer, it's going to take more because they're gonna have to think in advance of what they're going to do, but it shouldn't actually take many hours of work. Okay. Um, I might say peach juice, if you can get clarified peach juice, even if you can't, doesn't have to be clarified, because you know how, that's how we roll. We clarify most things. But like something like peach and mezcal go very, very well together because it's reminiscent of smoky, kind of like a grilled smoky peach, which, which everybody likes. So like peach, lime juice, some sort of like smoky mezcal, maybe even then balanced with a little bit of tequila, because Mezcal can sometimes be a little overpowering a drink like that, stirred with some sort of nice garnish in a double O fashion. It's not a lot of work. But it's, it's good, you're probably going to have to add a little bit of water just because otherwise it's going to be too intense to six straight peach and booze, and lime too intense. Then you might have to add some sugar to it like a couple bar spoons of like Demerara syrup to give it more brown sugar notes, which brings it more on the grilled peach. And that's just if you're gonna do peach, you can do a different fruit. But it is summertime.

Right? Okay, so just in the final thing, you keep saying maybe throw garnish, and they're like, what would be a good garnish?

Everyone likes like some sort of like fresh piece of fruit. I mean, they can't vacuum infused. I'm assuming they don't have a vacuum. Now, but they could like, you know, they could marinate some fruit in a different kind of a booze for a couple of days and then put it on a skewer and that always looks festive and tastes good. But it should taste good garnishes shouldn't just be I mean, I'm not an umbrella. Sort of. Okay, I really like an umbrella. And I like a cocktail monkey, I have to say, Natasha, do you enjoy the cocktail monkey? Yes, everyone. Really? Everyone we say that we don't enjoy it. But we love it. We do. Everyone does little Flamingo. I mean, who doesn't like that, you know. So, you know, there's that. Oh, here's another one. If you really want to, if you want to go Looney Tunes, you can go buy some and you know, but if you want to go on the kitsch side of delicious, then go buy some fresh juice coconuts, they're still available right now and then serve everyone. You know, hack the top off, drain this stuff out, throw the coconuts in the freezer, those become the glasses and then you can make a drink you normally I do run with the coconut water stuff because but you could definitely balance out a mezcal or tequila drink with coconut water and and then serve it in in that thing of coconut which is if you want to go on the kitsch side is cool. As long as you like lb No, it's kitsch. But you know, the monocle will pop the monocle out of your eye and then you know, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Okay, that's good. I wrote all this down there. So that's very helpful. I'm going to pass it along and fingers crossed the two wins.

Alright, thanks, Brady. Let us know how it goes. Thanks. All righty. Okay, now, I have some questions from last week. I'm going to oh, by the way, call any questions to send 184972128? That's 718-497-2128. Okay. Question from last week that I didn't answer from Brian. I don't think I didn't answer the bursar question today. Okay, I've heard that birch syrup is also wonderful and different from Maple maple syrup. What do you know about it? It is true that maples are not the only trees that are tapped for Are there sap to produce syrups Birch is as well, I have had birch syrup only once. And it was many years ago, I would say like six years ago when I first kind of learned about it. And I don't really, I can't really say that I've tasted it because the sample that I got of birch syrup was in my opinion, flawed, it tasted like it had kind of gone it had a sour taste to it, that I wasn't expecting. And it tasted like it had been burnt a bit when it was being reduced. And so I'm gonna go ahead and say that I haven't actually had birch syrup at its at what I assume is going to be its best I will say this about birch syrup. That production is incredibly small. You know, we should go get some more see what it's like now because I love anything, anything like that, you know, sometimes we should get some some birch syrup. birch sap has a much lower sugar content than maple sap does. And so you have to acquire more of it and boil it down more. But I'm anxious to hear anyone else's experience on birch sap me maybe it's supposed to have a little bit of a sour note to it. Maybe it's supposed to taste a little bit burnt, but my impression of it was that my sample was flawed. And I handed it to a bunch of chefs, I gave some to nails. I gave some to a bunch of people. I said do you think that this is what this is supposed to be like? Or do you think this is flawed? And everyone said, this is flawed? So I don't I don't I can't say I know what it what it tastes like. But I also am intrigued and I love any sort of new new I'm a new ingredient freak. So you know if if you can use birch syrup, then hey, let's do it. Let's get it right. Yep, sorry, I couldn't be more help. Okay. Now, we had another question that I didn't get to on cream cream liqueurs. And I said, I would deal with it this week. So here I am. So I looked up on the interwebs, a, some recipes, some industrial recipes for making cream liquors, and what's what's in them. And typically, it don't, you don't you're not required to have an emulsifier in the cream liqueur, although it can help. But they're typically in the range of 12 to 16%, milk, fat 15 to 20%, sugar, two to two and a half to three and a half percent. sodium caseinate, that's milk protein, nonfat milk solids, one to three and a half percent, and 14% Boost balance of 46 to 50%. Water. Now what does this mean? What does this what does this mean? It means they're fairly high in fat. And they are clearly having milk solids and casein. And the casein is acting as the emulsifier to their to keep everything together, which is a protein noticed the booze content. And by that I mean ethanol is low. So it's in the range of 14%. So I think that once you add more alcohol, the alcohol is going to start to destabilize the emotion. So it you know, the caller that called him before, I think he was having phase separation problems if my memory serves me, right, not curling, not breaking, but phase separation. And so to me, that means that you the emotion is destabilized. And that might be because the alcohol content is too high. The other thing that you might want to do, which is what he says add an emulsifier. And by adding an emulsifier to it, you're going to reduce the amount of creaming ie separate phase separation that you have. And you're going to want to go look at a book and it's going to be the next book that I try and get on the highly technical stuff called Food emulsifiers in their applications, by Gerard Hasson hudl hasenhuttl, I think is how you pronounce the person's name. And it really talks about the different kinds of emulsifiers and why you would use one versus the other. And when you're when you're using something in a in a cream liqueur, you want to use what's called an alpha tending emulsifier. And it's just a technical term, alpha tending emulsify modifier and those types of emulsifiers tend to form films, they're film forming emulsifiers that form at the interface between a liquid and an oil, or I should say a water base liquid in an oil base, liquid or air or whatever. And so those film forming ones are better at stabilizing things and cream emotions. And one of those alpha tending film forming emulsifiers is propylene glycol monostearate or P G. M S we have a caller caller you're on the air.

Hey, Dave, it's Michael Madsen. Hey, how you doing? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I'm

doing well. I like like the cookbook. How's the cookbook doing?

It's doing really good. You don't we sold out the first printing. So that's exciting.

Awesome. Congratulations, Jack, can we get the applause meet Plaus meter on that. He's slow on your

blessing over here. So what's up? So I'm working on the equipment list for my first restaurant is going to be a sort of a small lunchtime place. And I wanted to get your advice on whether I should go pacojet versus another kind of ice cream machine.

Okay. Okay, so you from I'm here with pure food here in Manhattan. No, okay, pure copier food and wine. Right? That's a sarma melon Gaius his restaurant. And she is the only person I've ever seen who does all of her ice creams and pacojet. All of them. And, and she had an ice cream shop attached to the restaurant called if the figure of the ice cream shops called like lucky duck or something like that. A one lucky duck. And she did a lot of ice cream service just out of a pacojet. So it is feasible, even in someone that's pushing a lot of ice cream to do it. But how much ice cream? Do you plan on serving?

Not a ton. It's not like it's going to be an ice cream restaurant, but I want the flexibility that, you know, if I'm doing a dish to have an ice cream component on it, you know, I would imagine it would be smaller scoops. You know, it's not like I would be serving Sundays, at least not very often.

Right? Right. So I mean, pacojet is fantastic at having lots of flavors available in smaller quantities. So you could kind of you it's feasible to have like a flavor base that is there. And then you know, even if you only use a scoop a night, it's okay because you can, you can only process the amount you need and keep the rest kind of and you can reprocess it again, and get it back into perfect temper unlike normal ice cream where you make the batch and then from there on out it's turning to crap you know, as you look at it, it's it's losing its its, you know, stuff. It's crystal de crystallizing recrystallized book losing its texture. pacojet is fantastic. At at, you know, the perfect texture, you know, cuz you just reprocess it if you need to. Right,

how long does it take to spin one scoop?

Not long. I mean, if you're spinning the entire pacojet container, that probably takes I don't know, two minutes or something like that. All told, now, but three, maybe three, it's loud, you know, so you wouldn't necessarily want to have it in front of a customer. But it doesn't take a long time and processing just you know, one or two things. Doesn't doesn't take very long at all. The one trick is you have to some people pre spin some just because it's it's sometimes it gets a little soft when it you know, right after it's spun, and they like to firm it up a little more the big product, right? Big problem. The pacojet is the freezer temperature that you have that is critical to the making sure that if it's too cold, if it's too cold, the product comes out kind of powdery. If it's too warm, the product comes out, soupy. So it's a lot about temperature maintenance, inside the freezer, and especially during a busy service going in and out making sure you can maintain the temperature stability. And I think that's why a lot of people will process a couple of scoops. And then you know, keep those scoops and a dipping Well, or whatever. But you know, I've done it out of a freezer, you know, everyone kind of gets that thing to work in their own sort of way. The one. Some of the problems with pacojet are that if they break, they might have gotten better. But years ago, which was the last time that you know, I had to use one a bunch at a school. If one breaks, they don't necessarily get you a loaner instantly. And then you're without a pacojet. And so you know, I've had to help people out, if you have a friend that has one that can loan you one when yours is down. Or if you can afford to have a second one lying around, you know, then it's kind of okay. But you know, they break more, they used to break more often than for instance, they carpet Johnny's do now carpet Johnny, you know, you know, the lb 100 is going to take up a lot more space in your kitchen, which I don't know whether that's a premium, it's going to cost like 12 grand, you know what I mean? They're, they're fantastic. But if you don't need the volume on, you know, on the on the carpet Johnny's, then, you know, I would say you know, pacojet is viable, just, you know, just be aware of the of the issues, make sure that that whoever you buy it from, you know, I haven't had to buy in a long time, but make sure that whoever you buy it from is going to help you get the parts quickly. It's not like, all the parts are kind of proprietary on the inside, like all the belts and cogwheels are not labeled with any sort of normal labeling. So you can't just go to an industrial website and buy the parts for it, which is irritating, but they're great, the texture is great. They're fantastic. The other the other issue that's expensive is the stainless steel containers are expensive. And people in your kitchen are going to tend to not realize that they're not bein Marie's and sift them around, which can be also problematic. The guys at Pure Food and Wine used to freeze their stuff in quart containers and jam those into the stainless steel buckets for spinning and it works great. The one problem is is that if you jam it in crooked, and it's loose, and the blade as it comes down hits it cockeyed. You can shatter the blade. So, you know it's it's a question of what you know what risks you're willing to take. It won't ruin the pacojet but it could, you know, could cause that kind of problem.

You're shoving it down in there in the plastic or you're taking out of the plastic tub and shoving that block of ice down into the stainless.

Yeah the latter you pop it out of the you pop it out of the core container and jam it into the into the stainless but it's not an exact fit. You have to really jam it down and make sure it's not at an angle the blade really doesn't want to all of a sudden hit something thicker than it's, you know, incremental slicing.

Yeah, got it. Okay. Very cool. Yeah.

Yeah. But anyway, but yeah, I love pacojet. They're great. I mean, they really are great for all that, um, you know, complained about the fact that they cost a lot. And you know, that they're, they're still fantastic pieces of equipment. Cool. Well, thanks

for the advice. That helps a lot. All right. Thank

you. Thanks for calling. Stranger. Bye bye. All right. Hey, Jack, you wanna go to our first commercial break? Yes, sir. Come right back when cooking issues.

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All right. I have somebody real quick I had a cooking issues listener asked if, if Anastasia is actually this is real. They're like is she actually like rolling her eyes in the studio sometimes because it sounds like Yeah, sounds

Yeah, you can hear how do you hear that? You know, it's the pause and then I think the sardonic reply. I think that's what it is.

I confirm that it does indeed happen. Yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, right now in a stash is buying some shoes on Zappos.

I'm paying paying lots of bills. Kind of bills that

awesome. Okay. She didn't have the debt at 10am this morning. The debt came in at noon just so you know. Just you know debt wasn't there at 10 That's only there at noon. Okay. This question in from GE I assume as Jean and not a Joel gene doe which is awesome named Joe right. Dough like dough not like dough like Doremi like dough like dough nut. Which is not well not like do not do you shouldn't spell don't do and UT that's that's a horrible it's an abomination. It's dough like like don't you work with anyway, I want he posted this to to me and to ideas and food want to post using ocean water. Any thoughts on dilution or other consider I wouldn't dilute it right? It's just I would filter the heck out of it. You know what I mean? And make sure that you don't get it from like the swampy tidal pool thing which is why he responded to this on the on the Twitter but just saying I don't think you need to dilute it but be aware that seawater is a lot more bitter than saltwater because there are many other salts in seawater other than other than you know sodium chloride table salt, and to kind of get an idea of what that does for flavor you can pick up nigari which is you know, the Japanese salt that they use to set tofu you can also set tofu by the way in seawater it's possible to set tofu in seawater that's an old school way of doing it. But if you taste nigari which are all the salts leftover after the most of the sodium chloride is removed that bitterness is what you get out of seawater so just be aware that that flavors there but people have been using micro filtered seawater for you know, you know, a long long time it was especially popular ingredient in kind of high tech Spanish cooking and probably still is for all I know okay, we got anonymous in please ask Dave Arnold is venison from a dear adult with Lyme disease is still edible. Yuck from anonymous. What are your thoughts this session before I before I tell you the answer What do you You think I know the answers? Probably it's fine. Just because you know me and my answer to everything is fine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, you happen to be right. I mean, I don't think the reasoning is good on your part. But you happen to be correct. I went on the CDC, which is the Center for Disease control's website, and kind of looked up to see what what the theory is. And Lyme disease is a disease actually, you know, it can be easy to treat, if you catch it early. If you don't catch it early, it can be really horrible and can cause central nervous system problems that can be persistent, almost indefinitely, it can be really bad. And they, you know, it's named after the town in Connecticut, nearby here, Lyme where I guess it was first noticed and you get it from deer ticks most, you know, most from deer ticks. And it has a life cycle that goes from deer tick to rodents to deer, but you know, around in this big circle, and you get it, the tick bites you the spiral keyed is injected into you, and then you get the Lyme disease. Sometimes you get a bullseye rash, sometimes you don't, and you get muscular, you know, muscular pains, and headaches, blurred all that nasty stuff, and you treat it with with antibiotics, but you got to catch it early. Okay. There's no evidence this is from the CDC directly. There's no evidence that Lyme disease is transmitted from person to person. So you can't get it from infected from touching, kissing or having sex with a person who has Lyme disease. So what this means is that bodily fluid contact is not what's going to cause the Lyme disease and similarly, although Lyme disease during pregnancy can cause problems, a lot of problems such as infect infection of the placenta and whatnot, if the baby makes it, baby babies, okay. And although there have been no cases of Lyme disease linked to blood transfusion, they still don't recommend that you give blood if you know you have Lyme disease. So what this means what all this means is that you're not going to get it from eating venison or squirrel meat and they say for instance, that you're not going to get Lyme disease from eating venison or squirrel meat. But in keeping with general food safety principles, meat should always be cooked thoroughly. And here's the key. Here's the key. The key is note hunting and dressing deer or squirrels may bring you into close contact with infected ticks. So if you are hunting deer that are been addled with Lyme disease, then you are in much greater contact with the with the you know, the environment where you're going to get a tick. So you do deer do tick checks. Be careful, put, you know, repellents on you to keep ticks from jumping on you, you know, like soak your clothes and whatever that is pyrethrin whatever it is that stops that ticks from getting there. But that's the main thing. Now, the interesting thing with deer disease that no one knows what the what the final thing is going to be on isn't Lyme disease. It's Chronic Wasting Disease, which you get from Elk and I guess other deer but not here on the East Coast. You get it in kind of the North middle of the country. And this is a Spongiform Encephalopathy you know a TSC a transfer transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy similar to jaquess Creutzfeldt or mad cow and causing neurological disease in elk and deer. Not not thought to be transmissible to humans. However wise word on the street is that you never know when the TSE which is a pre pre unrelated so like this weird little protein pre unrelated Jesus when they're going to be able to change a little bit and make the jump from one animal. For instance, cows pretty mad cow disease to human beings. So we don't know like, we don't know whether there's ever going to be a sheep based scrapey that can come over to to us we don't know if there's going to be a chronic wasting disease that can jump and come to us. And the fun part about you know, transmissible transmissible spongiform Encephalopathies is they have something like 1015 year incubation period. So the thing that kills you, you could have eaten 1015 years ago. Awesome, right? That's super happy times. Super happy times. And so because of that, I make a general rule of not eating, and not eating brain matter, or nerve tissue. Unless like someone really offers it to me. And I'm like, and I feel like I'm going to be extremely rude not eating it. Because being impolite is is much worse than dying in 15 years, not really. But it's kind of what happens. So I tend to stay away from that stuff. And I know a lot of other people that do too, just because we don't know how that stuff is gonna suss out yet. Okay. Hello, Dave, Natasha, Jack and Joe finally ever good. Excellent. We're getting called out in the right and the right stuff. Dave, you mentioned in several shows, including the last one that you liked making chicken stock at home in the pressure cooker. you've alluded to several changes to regular recipes that are required to get a good result such as doubling or tripling tripling the amount of onion using less water, etc. Could you spell out specifically a typical recipe that you will use that you would use? Also I make a cocktail that uses a Luka puree. However, it's very difficult to find here in the Bay Area and I cannot always get it. Do you know of any reasonable substitutes? I could try it bought lucuma powder, but I haven't had much luck It doesn't taste the same and imparts a gritty texture to the drink. Thanks, love the show Michael in Oakland, California. Okay, I'm gonna handle this in reverse. I don't yet have a good substitute for lucuma puree. I haven't used it really, that much I've had it kind of preserved, but I've never had the fresh stuff. I've had similar related fruits from South America and Colombia, but I'm going to have to do more research on it. In fact, I'm going to Colombia in at the end of August, and I'm in Lucca most Peruvian and it's like one of these Peruvian superfruit jobbies that they're doing a good job marketing. So when I go, I'm specifically going to do some research, I'm gonna try to get the fresh stuff that's closely related as I can to it, even though it's not I won't be in Peru up in Colombia, and then the other substance and then once I have more experience using the real deal fresh stuff, then I will be able to make a good substitution for powders. Yeah, they're, you know, they're, you know, yeah. Typically, things like that might impart a gritty texture to a drink. And the real question is, are you adding the look them up for for what purpose for creaminess for taste for what? So I'm gonna do more research. And then if you want to send an email back, like the beginning of next month, right, when I get back from Columbia, I'll have an answer for you. And also, please email why you know, what it is you want, what it is, you want to mimic about the look of my everything, or just the flavor or just the texture, right, and then we can kind of work from there. Okay, now, back to the stock

when I make it, so if I don't actually have a specific recipe, I'm feel like I'm really doing you wrong, Michael. But I don't have like a specific recipe that I use, I just know that I kind of I always do stocks, really by eye, which is dumb, but when I do it at home, I'll typically I'll typically won't even roast off my bones I'll brown the bones in in a pan. So let's do chicken. Like I'll take chicken a lot of backs and you know the the excess meat from that usually when I fried chickens, I have a lot of bones and backs and stuff leftover, I have all the bones. In fact, because I've made boneless fried chicken, I'll chop them up fairly fine. And then I'll cook them actually in the pressure cooker in batches, just so that I don't have to go roast when I'm cooking. You know, in a professional kitchen, I'll roast and I'll you know, I'll also like roast off the vegetables as well. And then put them in I do typically add probably twice as much onion when I'm doing pressure cookers when I'm doing additional stock, you don't need to just be aware that the onion flavor will be different and will be a little bit muted, you can add a little bit of fresh on in afterwards and do like a 1015 minute simmer of freshly sweated not fresh fresh onions but freshly sweated onions to bolster bolster that backup don't alter your celery, or your carrot amount or it'll come out kind of to carry it into celery. I jammed the bones down in as hard as I can. And then I add water basically just to cover the bones and no more. And I think you know one of the issues, it'll everything depends on what you're going to use it for if you know from years of having the stock that they make at the at the French Culinary Institute, now the ICC, in my opinion, all of that stock was it's too too watery. So like normal professional procedure is to add excess water and then you know, boil it for you know, simmer it for a very, very long time. And in the end, you always end up having to reduce that stock before you use it. Because the flavor profile is just not high enough. Now, from an economic standpoint, it does make sense to use exit well matter of accepting the cost of gas to boil this stuff down, it makes some economic sense to use excess water because it means that the flavor of the liquids that are left in the stuff after you drain it have less of the less of the flavor and protein in them than they would if you diluted it and then you can boil it back down my feeling which kind of goes back to reading you know Peterson's book so many times is that the super long boiling times and reduction constant reduction while intensifying flavors can tend to dull the flavor. So I prefer to make a much more flavorful initial stock even though I might lose some of that flavor in in the fact that there still is liquid clinging to the bones and whatnot when they come out. So when I'm doing it at home, I tried to go for the most flavorful one because cost isn't necessarily an issue and that's serving a lot of people. I'm just trying to effectively use a whole bunch of chicken backs that I have in carcasses so I'll actually do a triple stock I'll do I'll do veg and then I'll roast off a whole bunch of bones and pack them in Phil just over the top with water. Hit it once and then drain that one and put it with a fresh thing of bones and do it again. I don't do Remo Yash at home. Just because I don't do Ramayana at home but you know if you want to do a Remi stock with it you also Could anyway sorry I don't have a specific obviously I don't solve this stuff because I don't know what I'm going to use it for later. If you're making a broth or soup you know do whatever you do whatever you want. I do typically add the peppercorns beforehand and Bay just because I'm used to it even though Jeffrey Stein garden tells me that I'm an idiot for doing so because all that's happening there is imparting bitterness from the pepper and not the aroma which is very fleeting and goes away. But I liked that bitterness so I'm going to do it anyway even though Jeffrey tells me I shouldn't What do you think I have spoken to definitely a long time I'm gonna say hello to my man Jeffrey. Sorry, sorry, I could not be more accurate. I looked up Miss Vicki's pressure cooker stock she actually tends to be more Miss Vicki rice pressure cooker things actually, you know, I snuck around, you know, the Amazon I had to look inside on Amazon because they don't actually own her book and it didn't give me the one key page in American Amazon so I went to Amazon UK and they gave me that one page so like you know if at first you don't succeed on the Amazon look inside try a different country try a different country again, thank God I didn't have to go to like Amazon dot Czechoslovakia or whatever. Because I wouldn't be able to read the I'd have to go through translation which is an irritation anyway. But yeah, she cooks her pressure cooker stock for like half an hour on chicken, which I think is reasonable but not on beef. The you know, whereas Heston I think Blumenthal cooks for like an hour when we were running our tests at the French culinary I think we cooked an hour or longer for our pressure cooker stocks really you're gonna get especially if you chop up the bones pretty fine you're going to get the vast majority of extraction in half an hour at 15 psi. And so I think that's probably good enough half hour 45 minutes then let it come down naturally the coming down naturally is the key on the recipe there so that you're not boiling all the stuff out of the of the bones and causing all sorts of emulsification problems which we're going to deal with in a second because the next question Should we take a break real quick? Yeah, there's like five minutes so I mean maybe it's just power through it power through I think that's probably good idea power. Okay, power it is power. Okay, so which leads to our next question? Yo what up with you guys can't get enough y'all anyway thank you very much by the way for not being we get enough of this I can certainly get enough of this right does stars has enough for me all the time. Oh, wait, we have an okay. Dave, I was wondering when your book is supposed to be put on the market well, I have to finish writing at first and the fact that I have not written it is putting me in deep hot water with my publisher. But you know be sure that it's like like my top priority now is finishing this book. And but after I write it it's still going to be about a year before it comes onto the market. So unfortunately no time too soon. And second question more food related been having a little trouble with stocks lately. I always blanch a rose my bones and skim skim skim passer machine wah and cloth like you know cheese cloth. After reducing by half or more and chilling I still notice there being too much suspended particulate, what's going on? Also, this refers to beef and chicken stock, not pork. Thank you very much, Philippe. Okay. Look, there's an interesting article on clarity and whatnot, that I don't have time necessarily to go through in detail, but you can get the abstract for it online and take a look at it. And it's called the effects of cooking temperatures on the physiochemical properties and consumer acceptance of chicken stock by Mark KrAZ. Now, which came out in 2011, and they they basically do cold start similar to 85 Celsius. For a long time, it was cold water start a hot water start at 85 cold water start cooked at 99 Celsius and hot water start cooked at 99 Celsius. And they run through you know questions of whether which is clear which is cloudy, which has higher protein which has higher taste acceptance, and I will just read maybe their final results. Overall the results of the study show that there there is a clear physical chemical difference between stocks could get 85 Celsius at a simmer and 99 which is right at the boil. The starting temperature of the water however, did not greatly affect these properties. The assertion however, the protein EXTRACTION is greater in cold started stocks was partially supported by the results of this study for the stocks cooked at 99. See, the one that was hot started had more dissolved protein than the one that was at 85. The 85 had more dissolved protein than the hot started at 85. Okay, so So there you go. You can go go read their paper on it because it's too complicated to suss out, you know, just suss out instantly. They did mention by the way, that blanching beforehand was something they didn't treat as part of their study, but it's in there in the discussion. So you should definitely read about it but I'll give you my my my points. My points on it. Okay. So what you did is you said you bland sharrows your bones first and then skim skim skim. Now the skimming is supposed to get the scum off the top that otherwise gets multiplied into the sauce by the way you do this initial thing reads skim off the initial stuff. And then you want to boil the hell out of it for certain Chinese stocks, because they actually want to emulsify the fat. So they're using protein to emulsify the fat into your, into your stock. And that's basically that's the idea for call like cream stocks or milk stocks, I happen not to like them too much, but I haven't had that much experience with them. But I'm just maybe just, I'm not used to them, maybe I'm sure they're great. And they're when they're used properly, but I haven't had enough experience with it. So. So you want to do the opposite of that for a normal stock, which is to you want to bring it up to the boil, and then skim the stuff that floats off to the top because that's going to contain proteins that are going to if they get turned in will help to emulsify the fat into your stock, which is going to make it cloudy. All right. So one thing I want to make sure you're not doing is that you're not, you're not