Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

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Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your oath to cooking she's coming to you live from Roberta's pizzeria on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to 1245. Joined in the theater, theater theater theater theater box in the containerized box in the back of a bird pizzeria with Natasha the hammer Lopez, how're you doing this session? Good Are you and Jack and Joe in the engineering room? How you doing guys? Hey. Okay, first of all, a thank you. Thank you. I'm going to Michael. I'm just gonna call you Mike. I'm going to butcher your last name. Does anyone here know how to pronounce? I'm terrible apprentices. I was going to call you Michael. Because I don't want to destroy your last name. Okay, here's the I'm gonna try it. Anyway. Suzuki, Suzuki, what do you think? Let's hope so. Status, right? Especially because so nice. Sent me us a copy of fuchsia Dunlops book, a land of plenty a treasury of authentic Sichuan cuisine. A book by the way, which I do not own even though I've been meaning to get some fuchsia Dunlop books because she was recommended to us by our good friend Harold McGee, because she showed him around various places in China when he was there. Anyway, he writes thank you for answering my questions. I'm seasoning pans. Enjoy the dumb mob. It is a great book about my favorite type of Chinese food. Thanks for all the effort you put into the podcast Mike. Very nice, very nice. Thank you. All right, now a Twitter question I missed from last week from very Hmong Casey, I hope again with me with the pronunciation I should just never pronounce the name he listened when you're writing something in it even if your name is Smith assume I don't know how to pronounce it and just put a little pronunciation guide next to it. Am I right or wrong? Because I'm a moron. True, true. Anyway, the question was tweeted in clearly over clearly overcooking a shrimp boil. Everything's abbreviated goods Twitter, US shrimp sausage, corn, potato, onion, garlic and Zenner adds spice question was perfect smoothie recipe or timing Okay. interpreting this question to mean that whenever you cook shrimp shrimp, boil your overcooking the hell out of the shrimp, which is definitely the case probably mean definitely the case. I'm assuming that you're not overcooking by too much. Your sausage, your corn, your uninor potato, and you're definitely not overcooking your data and spices my guess. But I am not a huge fan of low temperature shellfish unless they are post finished. Now usually let's say I was going to cook a lobster or shrimp anytime you're going to cook a shellfish, you don't want to cook it for too long because if you cook it for too long, even at a very low temperature, the enzymes in it keep working, especially at low temperature actually, the enzymes keep working and they turn mushy in some cases, they can almost turn to a paste, and it's the most revolting paste that you've ever put in your mouth that you feel like you have to spit it out. Now, it doesn't always happen and I can't I haven't figured out yet why sometimes shrimp has this enzyme in it that does that to it and sometimes it doesn't maybe someone out there knows why it's a variable situation however, I actually prefer when things shellfish are cooked, not overcooked, necessarily, but cooked at a higher temperature and have that slight springiness to them but don't, but you aren't overly aren't totally overdone. Lobster the way you would cook a lobster, let's say so I assume shrimp is somewhat similar low temperature is usually you would put it into a bath of butter at roughly 60 degrees Celsius for roughly this is after you've taken the tail meat out, you put on a skewer, you put it into roughly 10 minutes. So that's what you're looking at for low temperature but the texture of it is always very, very soft. And I actually like a little more bite to my lobster than that. Now on shrimp. What I typically do, whenever I'm doing kind of boil things with shrimps is I'll rip off the shells and heads and I will roast roast them to get some flavor and then infuse them into the soup base separately, pull them and discard them separately, like you know, basically grill cook the shrimp at a high temperature until it's just done. And then at the very end, as I'm putting the soup out, I will fold it back in that way I get the maximum flavor from the shells and whatnot into the although a lot of the really thin shell trip we get there's not as much flavor in the shells as you'd like. But you get the flavor from that into your into your into your soup base. And you don't viciously overcook the shrimp on the sausage, I usually recommend cooking my sausage at 60 degrees Celsius. And you can cook that in a bag and then post chop it up and fold it in later, you're not going to get them any flavor of that sausage into the stock. So you might want to reinforce the stock with some other flavors if you're going to do it that way. But the best way usually to handle it because none of those ingredients cook properly at the same temperature the potatoes gonna need to be at least above 85 Celsius for a pretty long length of time to for it to cook out properly. Or not really anything whatever yes about that. And onion definitely above 85 Celsius for a good length of time to cook. And so none of these things want to cook at the same temperature so typically I cook them individually add the flavor to the stocking layers and recombine at the end and I do that all the time with any sort of sort of like when you're making like oh my god that name is going out of my head the the soup that is from the soup that the boy based spicy blueberries with sausage with garlic bread in it from San Francisco anyone? Anyone anyone. Oh my god sounds like almost like the Italian word for onion jalapeno. Yeah, so when I make sure pedo I cook everything separately you know and make a stock basically from the bones and the drippings from the ashtray steam or steam out like all of the you know muscles and shellfish and whatnot. Say the stealing juices. Make a stock with the fish bones, cook the stuff and then recombine it all at the end. And that's always been the best way I get the maximum flavor and nothing's overcooked waiting. It's good. Good. All right. Hey, Dave, and group and group group from Matt. I recently have made two dishes in my pressure cooker one was a chicken stock based on Heston Blumenthal's recipe. So Blumenthal recommends finally chopping up the chicken pieces and then either deep frying I think or roasting, I haven't actually read it but this is my is my impression of it. And then pressure cooking that for I think quite a long time.

And of course he doesn't mention it in the book, but I looked at the pictures of it and he recommends using a cone recon pressure cooker, which it visually he recommends it ie that's what he uses. Because it's non venting. If you go back on the Cooking issues blog back to you know, 2009 or whatever, you know, I wrote a bunch of posts or one two posts on why I think it's very important that your pressure cooker not be venting out when you're making stocks because the stocks from a pressure cooker that allows steam to escape tend to not taste as good in in my opinion. Okay. One was a chicken stock based on Heston Blumenthal's recipe and the other was octopus based on our web recipe. In both cases when I removed the lid the smell was less than appetizing. I don't know if I would call it a sulfur smell but, but in that family in the sulfur family, my wife had thought the chicken had gone bad but it smelled fine when I put it into the pot. I thought It was maybe sulfur from the onions or garlic but then I did it with the octopus and got the same result. For the octopus I use water salt paprika and pressure cook for 45 minutes. I know there was no onion and I don't think I use garlic also I've done tons of meat with onion and garlic in the past and never had any problems. Any thoughts on what's causing the odor? Okay, it's definitely not the onion in fact onions are almost completely deodorized by pressure cooking. And looking behind it by the way with these kinds of things. authors in the past notably Julia Child in Mastering the Art of French Cooking has notes on the pressure cooker the say she doesn't like certain things in the pressure cooker pressure cook stock is one of them, because she says that it has a pressure cooked taste. going back and reviewing what she's doing. I don't think what she's talking about is what you're talking about, I think for her like part of the problem is is that anyone who cooks a lot in the pressure cooker knows especially stocks you need to double and triple the onions in the recipe because they're just not going to come through as much or add some at the end after it's been on cat she also probably didn't take into account the fact that there's very little to no reduction on the inside of a pressure cooker so she has all of her stocks uncapped and then simmered afterwards open for another hour or so to get the flavor where she thinks they should be for for a normal stock so I'm not discounting Julia Child because of course really child you know, no one ever discounts anything to the child says That's crazy. That's like, you know, culinary suicide discount to the child but I'm going to have to say that I'm not sure that her Penny is necessarily well taken on pressure cookers now. I've never had what you're describing happen in a chicken stock. My question is, did the did all of the giblets go in maybe you're getting an effect with the liver cooking for a long time and the pressure cooker. I don't know. It's that's never happened to me. I've never gotten an off flavor from a chicken stock. I will say that I do not cook chicken stock as long in the pressure cooker as many other people do. At home I actually only cook it for about 25 minutes at 15 psi or both rings but at the school when I was running the tests we were doing at 45 minutes I know people are cooking it a lot longer. And I think going back to your octopus that the main problem on your octopus might be the length of time you're cooking. Most of the recipes that I've seen have the octopus only cooking for 20 to 30 minutes I think if you overcook it too long you might be creating some flavors in there that otherwise wouldn't be there otherwise I can't explain what's what's going on there but it's definitely not the it's not the onion it's not on you know garlic if anyone out there has an experience with this and knows what we're talking about and and is and is experienced this kind of off flavor I really appreciate you writing or tweeting and saying what's going on because I'd love to solve this problem sorry Matt that I don't have anything more definitive to say but there it is. Okay. Jack you want to go to our first commercial break?

Yes

All right here we go call back cooking issues.

We with God that you betcha with around all over this town, pow pow will shoot dice because it's a device and that's not right. So with while he needs to be laid

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to music is song's called how and band called flexor phonic Who Mailed us their CD after hearing me talk about original music on cooking issues. So we got the CD mailed to us in the office of the nice notes that he's a longtime listener and that's his band.

Nice Plex a phonic. Yeah, pretty good, right? Yeah, I liked that. Play some other stuff from that. Yeah, Plex the phonic plugs on it. Right? I got data. And I got a

Twitter question. And what do you got? We've got from Danny combs. I think I pronounced that right. Trying to make an extremely thick, simple syrup, glucose syrup thick for his bartender and it keeps crystallizing any suggestions.

Yeah, it's very, very difficult to make simple syrups with sugar that are as thick as glucose syrup. And in fact, for several reasons, one, the glucose inherently does form crystals as much as sucrose does, right, so right off there, you're off the bat, you've got issues. Secondly, there are other things in there dextrins and maltodextrins, and glucose syrup that are adding to the thickness of it, but aren't going to form crystals. So you're kind of shafted two ways their glucose syrup, if my memory serves me is up got a brix in the area of that 80% meaning glucose syrup is about 80% solid, which is hard freakin core. You know, I typically when you make a rich simple set, when you make a two to one simple syrup, you're talking about a bricks of about 66, right? Regular one to one simple syrup is a bricks of 50. If you do it by weight, which is how we do it, even at a mere 66 bricks, right, which is a two to one simple syrup, it can start forming some crystals eventually in it, you might be able to push that up a little higher 70 or so but you're not going to get much higher than that using sucrose. You could use an invert like a crinoline, which will have roughly similar sweetening properties to it and get the sugar content that high, but not with, you know, regular domino's sugar that you have. Well, I'm not pumping the Domino's brand you don't I mean, regular beet or cane sucrose that you have sitting on the shelf, you could attempt to invert it yourself by long cooking, but in general, then then you're gonna have problems with turning brown and all this of aid. So I think you're kind of in for a world of hurt trying to get that you could artificially thicken it with thickeners. But then it's going to have that artificial thickener. And so the question is, why do you want it to be that thick, if you just want it to be much sweeter without adding water, I think you're going to be SOL. Another alternative include glucose syrup, and very sweet. You know, none of those things are really mean. They're really, really thick. I'd have to know why you wanted it thick to recommend a way to do it. But you're not going to get a regular 100% sucrose syrup that thick without a crystallizing out. Just will not happen, in my opinion. So um, call me and tell me that I'm wrong. Oh, speaking of calling, call your question is 27184972128. That's 718-497-2128 Was that right? Yep. Okay. All right. So going back to our questions. Hey, Dave, Anastasia, Jack and Joe. Curious from behind Wall Street Journal's paywall, which I guess I mean, they illegally sent it to me while are they paid for it? So let us ask me a question. I'm not calling this person out. It's from Steve. He says a professor is trying to use distillers grain as a healthy food additive. Although I don't know how healthy it is. My understanding is mostly it's mostly fiber remnants from grains and against ethanol from grain. But if it's created, it may be good to find a variety of uses or perhaps to fooled fool's errand also, and this is the this is the opinion of Steve and not necessarily the opinion of anyone here. Arthur Daniel. ATM is the devil incarnate. What do you think about that? Jack? You hate that you hate the ATM? Right? What's that? A Archer Daniel mid Midlands or however you pronounce it. You hate you pro again. They're the devil incarnate. According to Steve. No comment. I have no comment. Because I don't want anyone knocking on my door and putting a bullet in my head. I'm just kidding. They don't do that. They don't they don't. I don't think I don't know. Anyway. Thanks for your great program by the way, I can never listen live. So the podcasts come in handy. Okay, so from the article, basically the story is, is that when you're distilling anything from anything, you have leftover after the fermentation and boiling process, you have whatever you had left. So if it's green, it's green. If it's spent grape, you know, whatever it's spent if you're doing brandy, it's it's that so there's all this stuff leftover. Now, what are you going to do with it, you don't want to just throw it away because that's a waste you paid for the grain or whatever. And so now you have to do something with the leftovers otherwise, you're you're a moron from economic standpoint. Now I have actually tasted directly wet distillers grain spent from the production of Maker's Mark bourbon, and I thought it was pretty good actually, because it's got a weird little kind of a funky flavor to it. But that's not what it doesn't get served to people typically what happens is, is it gets sent to livestock for the livestock to, to to grow on because it's cheap. It's basically a byproduct and if you feed it to something to make meat out of it then when when okay, but in this article on Wall Street Journal, this guy a Mr. Krishna, and his whole idea is he wants to send he wants to use these things in human food products. But what he's doing is basically what everyone does when they have a cheap food product is they try to make it as bland and tasteless as possible, so they can jack it into foods without you noticing. In other words, here's what he says at Literally, this is a quote from him. If I can make it bland, then I can do lots of tricks. He says, he then tests how much regular flour, this is directly from the article, he tests how much regular flour he can replace. If I put too much in there, he says, it'll be a brick and cookies, don't go beyond 7% chocolate chips come in handy to I can hide anything. If I have enough chocolate, he says. And that just goes to show you. I mean, anyone who knows me knows what I'm going to say right away based on what he says, which is, if you're adding something because you want to save a nickel and Jack food with it, then I think you're you're doing some bad stuff to food right? Now, theoretically, you can make some argument that it's not basically it's there's a lot, there's protein, there's a lot of protein and spent grains and a lot of fiber. So if you're having problems with the pooper, and you need a lot of extra fiber in there, or if you're the one American who can afford to buy cookies that are jacked with, you know, dispense spent distillers grain and also has a protein deficiency, right? Because I doubt that the that the loads and loads of hungry, which there are many hungry people in the United States, people tend to forget this. A lot of hungry children in the United States, especially, which is horribly sad. I don't think those are the people who are going to be able to afford to go get, you know, cookies that are jacked up with with spent grain Do you think so? Yeah. So that could be wrong. And also like, it seems kind of even if it was, that seems kind of gross to be like, hey, look, I'm gonna make these cheap cookies for these kids that don't have nothing to eat. And so what I'm going to do is jacket with stuff that nobody wants. Does that seem right or wrong? seems wrong. I mean, just from a mental note, it seems wrong. Anyway, so right there, I'm saying, This is not something that I'm hyper interested in the mean as as a feed for cattle, it seems like it's fine. I was doing some research on it. And there's basically they either dry it out and use it that way, because it keeps a lot longer. Or if you live very close to where a distillery is, you can feed them they the wet product, and it's fed typically, in areas of like 10 to 20% of the total ration based on dry matter. This is according to KS grains and their DD GSF, which is dried distillers grain factsheet. And it basically they say that, at those levels, it doesn't make the meat taste like crap, ie they can't tell the difference. And it can be economical. And so basically how much of its use is directly tied to whatever the current price of corn is. So as corn prices go up, the use of this stuff is going to go up as well, because it's we're going to make it anyway. Now.

The other thing that's useful for and feeding cattle is to prevent or to help prevent acidosis, which is a system where your cows aren't supposed to eat, they basically hugely carbohydrate rich diets all the time. And if they do, it can throw off their their room and and basically eat away the lining of their room and the pH of their system gets messed up. And and then it's terrible. If you can't cure you're done. It's a nightmare. So anyway, so feeding him this which is lower in carbohydrate can help reduce that apparently. Now, one thing I will say about it, and again, like what this guy is doing in this article is is is basically totally removing all of the aroma and flavor, which I actually think is quite interesting. If you're going to do something with spent grain spent distillers grain, what you should do is taste it and say, Hey, this has a flavor. This has an aroma, what the hell with this tastes good in me. And that's what you should be doing. Of course, then you'll never soak up the 8 billion pounds of this stuff or whatever it is that we made from fermenting ethanol. And I'm sure that most of the stuff that's made isn't made the same quality as Maker's Mark. And so tastes like like behind, you know what I mean? And so if you're dealing with stuff that's poorly made, then not much use for it, you know what I mean? Like, I mean, I'm sure I could find good uses for maker's marks grain or any one of the other distillers who we like their their grain. But these guys have to totally de de de aromatize it with a bunch of different procedures. Now. Going back it whenever I want to know what Adam would feed stocks due to animals, traditional feedstocks due to animals, I turned to William Hughes, who was writing in the mid 1800s, and wrote one of my favorite books of all time, and you can get it on the Google Books. And it's called the hog and another edition, it's called the pig. I'm using the hog the 1865 addition, if you go through it, he lists all of the feedstocks that were available to feed pigs at the time. And anytime you had a bunch of list crap leftover, one of the things you would do to it is feed it to pigs to make meat out of it. And what he says is, and certain things obviously are delicious acorns and whatnot. But he says the refuse isn't fun at 65 addition, the refuse washing grains and other residue of breweries and distilleries may also be given to swine with advantage and seem to induce an intendancy to lay on to induce a tenant It's easy to lay on flesh, but you must not do it and to larger quantities or unmixed, without other more substantial food as although they gained flesh rapidly, when fed on this alone, the meat is not firm and never makes good bacon. Wow. So, so you are in the 1800s and you know, take with a grain of salt. But you apparently was well known back in the day, that if you fattened too much on the spent grains, that yes, they fattened up, but the meat didn't taste as good as it otherwise would. So. So there you have it. There you have it. Should I take one more question before we go to break or do you want me to go to another break? Yeah, we got some tweets too. Whenever you're ready, I give me a tweet. And then we'll go to break.

I'll give you a tweet. Once I zested. This is from Andrew Switzer. Once I resisted some lemon limes and oranges. I forgot about them for two weeks and cut them to find them extremely sweet. I have not been able to replicate this any idea what happened? The lime specifically tasted pure sweet with no acidity.

Wait, now the lime itself or the zest where he's tested the limes tested some

lemon limes and oranges forgot about them for two weeks and then cut into them to find them extremely sweet. He doesn't know what happened. Hmm.

And it was I am baffled. I am baffled because citric acid you know, so let's take the lemons. Good lemons, the main acidity in them is citric acid. It should not, it should not go away, it should not volatilize. Neither should it be broken down. The same goes in limes, which is a combination of malic acid and citric acid and succinic acid. Not in that order. And those should not break down. It's well known that acidity decreases in apples on storage. But I haven't read anything about increasing the availability of air to the inside of fruit on a lemon or a lime, causing the acidity to go down. Now, if you happen to be in an area that's growing, there are lemons and limes that are sweet. But I'm assuming that if you had picked it off of a tree of unknown provenance that you would have said something like I pick this lime and lemon off of the tree of unknown provenance, in which case you might have gotten one of the rare and I think insipid and stuff you didn't like those right? The sweet lines and sweet lemons. And they're kind of weak, right? Because they didn't have as much power as like an orange has, you know what I mean? flavor wise, which is weird, because like, hey, they're my favorite citrus fruits. And all of a sudden you take away the acid and there weren't one. So I'm extremely curious. I'm gonna have to do some research on that and see whether or not I can figure anything out. But no, I have no explanation for it.

Well, we have one more quick question. It's not really a question. So this is from Landon young going to be in New York City in a few weeks restaurant suggestions near LaGuardia. And then with the hashtag awaiting second coming of indeed Jesus.

Ah, aren't we all? Aren't we all really? Our meal? Wow, near LaGuardia. Yeah, no, right. Yeah, well, what does that near what's not I have to be honest now there's there's there's a there's two kinds of people there's people who actually explore what what we Manhattan people call somewhat pejoratively the outer boroughs. And then there are other people. I don't I mean, like I basically and this is gonna sound really it's just because my son does not like getting on subway trains on the weekend, but I do not which is strange considering that he is obsessed with subways. By very very rarely with the exception of Roberto is pizzeria get to eat in the outer boroughs very often so I don't really know much

for him. What do you got Jackson diner in Jackson Heights. It's it's that close to LaGuardia. Yeah, relatively close. So says my map here.

Well, that entire neighborhood is is world renowned for having interesting ethnic foods. Yeah, you know, and that that Jackson diner has been famous for many, many, many years. I just didn't know it was close to LaGuardia. Seems like yeah, that whole neighborhood you just searched that that neighborhood on Jackson. There's a zillion blog posts on that whole neighborhood and everything everything going on in it and the one that Jack just mentioned particularly famous but Google around in there the stuff you read out there know some of the restaurants in LaGuardia are pretty good. Come on with one client I don't remember the name but it was it was really good. She's like that was the best blueberry muffin and been wrapped two weeks ago I ever had in my whole life Italian

place with good sandwiches. It's Barros, shut up.

All right, and with that we will go to our second commercial break.

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I like that. Why don't we get this Sunday? Sunday Sunday monster truck effects. Sunday Sunday Sunday. I can do that.

You might get a surprise next week. All right.

I love me like it look, I never actually the truth I've ever been no monster truck rally. I don't feel like I need to because I saw the commercials growing up so much when I was a kid that like you know that's that's all I needed. Everything I needed was there and that anyone know and seeing that truck like crushed the other truck on the advertising was I didn't feel like I needed to see it in the real life. Have you ever been to a monster truck rally? Any of you guys ever been to monster truck rally?

I have. Yeah. When I was a kid in Long Island OTS.

Was it awesome.

I mean, I was a small kid. I remember feeling awesome. Yeah. may have not been awesome, though. I think maybe

the reason was I saw like a televised monster truck rally once and there was two monster trucks. And the idea for those of you that have never left your house is that monster trucks. They have giant giant wheels. And they roll over other cars and crush those other cars. And so they basically they they tried to race each other over a bunch of cars that they crushed to the finish line. And and they also do things like pull each other and things like that. But I watched on TV. Super excited. And neither truck actually finished the race because both of them either one flipped over and the other wheel fell off. Like none of them made it over. So it's kind of like a wasteland. Maybe that's what soured me to the whole thing cooler

yet. When I was a kid we I saw a demolition derby they call it? Yeah, you know those right?

Man? I've always wanted to go to a demolition derby so cool. We should yell that will be a fundraiser. What if Roberta is we all got a bunch of cars for like $150 Fill the sides with concrete and had like a heritage radio? Heritage radio demolition derby.

I have a 96 Nissan Sentra, I'm willing to donate for that event.

Yeah, I mean, that was like that's like a lifelong dream to be in a demolition derby. So baller

we have a caller, by the way. Oh, all right, caller you're on the air.

Hi, Dave. This is Marv would have coming from versatile in Germany. So I'm quite stoked to actually get through to the show. I had a question. I have a two year old and four year old child who are getting increasingly fussy about food. What do you feed your kids?

Oh my god, you know what this is like, this is it's like, it's like your kids learn whatever they can to punish you. And it's like, you know, if you eat everything and try to serve them everything, then they will go the exact opposite direction. I end up having to I have we have a couple I have a couple of problems with it. One is that my cooking time with during the week is limited to roughly 15 to 20 minutes a night. And so I have the added problem of it has to be quick. I also have the the issue of like, like the pitch battles that you know that you get into over food, you know, you do something you think they're gonna think is delicious, like cauliflower because it's not green, because for some reason, as soon as kids start hanging out with other kids, everyone gets together and has some sort of powwow about how green vegetables are disgusting. So you're like, Okay, I'll get you this cauliflower and I'll dump cheese sauce over it, which is universally and inherently delicious. And then yet you get this pitched screaming battle which is impossible to understand. So, Mike, all my kids want to eat is steak, hotdogs and hamburgers. And so you have to filter that through and which is weird because before my older son Booker was when he was you know, three and four and below would eat anything like fistfuls and capers, olives, you know, I end up having to sneak sneak things and then they end up liking it like for some reason they, they've developed a like for squid, you know, you initially have to like fudge it with a little I'm very, very much against lying to adults about what's in food and we'll get to that later. But with your kids, I think it's kind of an obligation to lie to them and then shame them later into, you know, into eating Otherwise they're just you know, all they want is you know, coffee guy gummy candies and, and hotdogs.

Yeah, we have a problem. I mean, like you talked about steak, hotdogs and hamburgers we have from my kids don't really Go for protein. So they would eat pasture, particularly Naki, like five days a week, if they were allowed Naki and pesto. So can you can you think of anything that's kind of like just not not just white carbohydrate? Because especially in Germany, they they would like to eat pasta and bread.

Yeah. All the time. You got them hooked on a spatula yet? Or you don't want to you don't want to get them hooked on another white carbohydrate. Yeah, well, Jeremy urine, so they can't get them to do you guys eat meat or no?

Yeah, yeah, we do. But the kids don't really. I mean, they're digging sort of salami and stuff, but they they're not really big on like, you give them chicken and they'll kind of poke at it.

What about worst? Like, worst? Or? No?

Yeah, but it's quite definitely we come over from Ireland, and it's quite different. So they're not really going for the texture of the verse because it's a lot firmer, right? And would have been used to over over over in the UK.

Right. And they're different, but both delicious. Because I was gonna say like, you know, what I would typically do, like, I get their vegetables into my kids also eat pasta. So I usually get the vegetables into that via purees and sauces.

We try and watch the verse and the salami, because like, we don't want to be just feeding them salt.

That's fair. That's fair. Yeah, that's interesting. Interesting problem. Kids are so like, here's what we do, honestly. And so my kids now are seven and 10. And the deal is, is our current mode, and I can't say whether it's any better or any worse is we cook whatever we want for ourselves. If they eat it, they eat it. If they don't, they don't. And what says we have a no complaining rule anymore, which doesn't appear to work. But it's just we do we decide to kind of give up on what they want, with the exception of two, three days a week, where we have like hassle free meals, and I'll make whatever it is that they want, assuming it's reasonable. And then the rest of the time like it is what it is. I try not to do anything that's going to be overtly going to irritate them and make them angry because that's just pushing things too far. But you know, and then eventually you find like, the weird stuff that like for like, like, even though my older son, you can't get him to eat any vegetables at all. For some reason sauerkraut he'll pound sauerkraut, like the end of the world is coming. So you know, fine. Here's some sauerkraut and he loves canned sardines. Good. So do I here has some canned sardines. But it's only through just like treating them like they're going to eat everything and is serving them everything that they're going to do. I haven't had as much luck, unfortunately, hiding things in other things as I would. Unless it's like you know, something that they know what it is a squid and they won't eat it until they've eaten it. And then you're like, you like squid and they're like, Okay, I love squid. But they you know that Yeah, yeah, I wish I could be more helpful.

I read something about a past the source of broccoli. Oh, yeah,

that's easy. If they want the broccoli, yeah. So, you know, basically you just take a chicken stock, which is another meeting there. And then you can thicken it with a roux but it's not necessary. And chop up. Brock, whole broccoli, including stance, chop the stems finer, because and I also peel off the very outside that's tough on the bottom, because unless you have a very good blender, it won't puree well just throw all those things into the chicken stock. blitz them to blend them up. I usually throw in some chunks into the in the blender as your blend my blender is pretty good. If it's not, you have to pre grate it up, you know, your favorite grating cheese. And I crack a couple of egg yolks into it to thicken it while it's hot. And then toss that into into I usually use a thinner pasta with that because it's a really kind of creamy sauce. So I like pastas with that that are creamy, like Angel's hair or something like that.

And like they reject that.

Well it also will work with a shell or something like that or whatever all the other would also work with yucky but I you know, I feel bad that your kids are making you make gnocchi every day.

Oh, no, no, this is a packet stuff, but it's not too bad. So,

yeah, yeah, I mean, like the fastest way to make them yucky is the one where you know, it's not traditional or authentic. But you make it a little bit looser than you normally would put it in a pastry bag and squeeze the pastry bag over the boiling water and cut it with a knife as it goes into the boiling water. And then you could have there were there, you can increase at least a potato ratio higher than that. Or you could you could do whatever you want. I mean, that was a recipe I got in the 80s from Jacques Papan. Who's that's the way he used to do it. And it's kind of no fail and much less messy way of making yucky than if you wanted to try and do it rather than you know, rolling on boards. And so what do they teach you guys to do stuff? You never did that with Cesare? No, no. Ricotta I'm sure that's gonna. I'm sure that's good. But yeah, but that's a good way to hide some chicken stock and some broccoli in their in their pasta. And my kids actually find the

Naki here. You can buy it in vacuum packs. And it's just brilliant because it like takes literally The one and a half minutes to cook and it's ready.

So no sweat. I also tend to blend a lot of anchovies into sauces and that's a way to get anchovy in there and everyone It's a well known fact that everyone likes anchovies and no one thinks they do so yeah, you know that's another good thing that works. That's not going to work in a broccoli sauce as much because you'll notice it more but in tomato sauce is nothing pops it tomato sauce, like some anchovies.

That's the one time I had to lie to my wife about what I'm putting on a seed because she she will not eat it if she knows anchovies are in their revenue. Everything I've ever cooked I've had them in.

Right, right. Like, is there any better pizza sauce than like, like reduced tomatoes blended with anchovies in it? Now, right pizza sauce with anchovies is freaking delicious. It's delicious. And yet nobody thinks they like it. And yet it has never once been rejected when I've served it to someone ever, ever.

Hey, that's awesome. Oh, and by the way, you I didn't know I send you a message on Twitter. You can shotgun a bottle.

Yeah, that was you. How do you how do you shot on the bar? How do you get the air in? You stick a straw in the top. And it's just as fast. It's just as fast as it can I put a big hole in the side of the camera with a key

if you put a drinking straw in the top of the bottle. And then just put your mouth around the top of the bottle with the drinking straw in it. Let's see Aaron.

Well, I I just said this someone else that I'm retired. I haven't shotgun one in a long time.