Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

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We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

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broadcasting live from Roberta's in Bushwick, Brooklyn, you're listening to heritage Radio network.com.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host and cookie issues coming to you live on time on time and live from the Heritage radio network here in the back of Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick. Brooklyn joined as usual with Natasha hammer Lopez in the engineering room, we have Jack and Carlos with us today. Hello, hello. Calling all your questions to send 184972128 Is that right? Yeah. So 184972128 cooking questions. Any kind of questions really will take anything you got. Is that true? We take them on. Okay. So anything good happening? No, we only have 45 minutes. So you should get through you see that because the customers don't care about that. Okay. You can save that for the break. So the so they're actually we're gonna we're gonna there are some there are some listener comments on the stash later, which we'll get into. Yeah, should be fun. So this is the second week of the Booker and DAX bar that we opened Booker and DAX had some hating. It's going there and Sasha Oh, wonderful. Well, from a drink standpoint, great. Yeah. It's it's it's different actually. Starting something it's it's a lot of fun. Anyway. Hello, Dave and Natasha from Matthew. I'm a longtime listener first time emailer I was recently gifted with a okay and here's it's a knife, right? We're talking about knife here. I've never actually pronounced the brand out loud. It's very well regarded knife. It's it's spelled glare stain, but I believe it's pronounced Glaston g l e, sta N STI N anyway, I was recently gifted with a Glaston gilti which is a Japanese. It's a basically a Japanese chef's knife like look looks like a western style knife but is Japanese. So Glaston go to knife and sharpen on one side. More on that later and it's left handed. Which means they paid a lot more for it because to get a lift. First of all, like culturally in Japan, you know, there's no such thing as left handed. It's like what's wrong with you? Like use your right hand? You don't I mean, so like the left handed one and, and Japanese knives typically are handed because they're not sharpened with symmetrical bevel the way Western knives are again more on that later. My question is how do I properly steal this and how do I properly how do I properly sharpen it on a stone? Any other general techniques tips for using a sharpening stone would be great too, as I am new to self sharpening, and having nicer knives. Thank you, Matthew. Okay,

look okay, Traditional Japanese knives. First of all, if you want to work we'll talk more about Korean later. But anyone who comes into New York needs to stop by Korean K K R I N, their knife place, because it's fantastic. And you can see firsthand a bunch of different styles of knives and really get a feel for kind of what the differences are. It's a fantastic place. So it's in, down near where the Trade Center used to be. And so if you a Japanese traditional knife is sharpened, literally sharpened, basically on one side only almost like a Western chisel. These knives are typically heavier and thicker on the spine. And they have like a very, very, very, they're very, very sharp, because with the one angle that one angle is not very big. And so you have you have a very, very sharp, but fairly fragile blade, I highly, highly recommend those things, they're extremely easy to learn to sharpen, because you basically all you have, you have a very large bevel that you can see very easily, you sharpen that until a burr is raised raised up, right, which means that you've taken all the way across, you can feel it you draw your thumb across the opposite side from the side you are sharpening, you draw it down over the edge and you can feel a burr a little curl being raised up around it. And you know, you don't want to do too much because you're you know curling over the edge, but you feel a light Burr and you know that you've sharpened all the way down. And so when you're sharpening a knife like this, or any knife, really you feel all the way and you'll see a chef do this when they're when they're working, they'll take their thumb and they'll pick it over the blade all the way down. And what they're insuring is that there a burr has been raised all the way along the edge of that blade, and that you haven't sharpened too much in one place and too little another and the key to the one I'm talking about Japanese style or anything is basically recreating exactly the bevel that was put on there when they sharpen the knife. Now the beauty of a traditional Japanese knife is you get that one bevel which is fairly easy to see. And then you just turn the blade over and it's almost flat on that in fact, the backside of the blade is concave. So you just put the you just lift the back spine ever so slightly off your stone and swipe it a couple of times to take the burr off and you have a fantastically sharp knife, right. I love Japanese style knives, I went to corn unfortunately, their prices have gone up because the Yen is I guess doing well against the dollar. So a knife that I bought, like you know, three four years ago for around $100 is now like $180, something like that. But if you're going to use a knife everyday in a work environment, the good old fashioned carbon, ie they will stay in there not stainless Japanese traditional knives are fantastic to work with. Because you know that after that shift of working, you're just going to, you know, take care of your knives. And before or after sharpen them, it takes very little time to sharpen them bring them back into Edge and they just they're fantastically fun to cut with. And they're awesome. Unless someone borrows your Japanese vegetable knife and hacks a bone with it and shatters the blade, which is what happened to me I wanted, I didn't find who it was because they literally went into my knife kit at the school, took it out of my knife kit when I wasn't there, hacked it up, put it away wet, and I got a rusted broken knife and it's incredibly depressing. But anyway, so they're extremely easy to sharpen, and I highly recommend them. Now on the exact opposite end of the scale is a traditional Western knife. A traditional Western knife is sharpened with an identical bevel on both sides. So no matter what the angle of the cutting edge is right, which is determined by how you hold the blade against the stone as your sharpening, no matter what it is, it's the same on both sides of the blade, which means a Western knife. There's no such thing as a right handed knife or a left handed knife because it's symmetrical around its around its cutting axis. These are also fairly easy to sharpen, because all you have to do is get that angle, right. Okay. Now, you have your western, you have your Japanese now the Japanese knife manufacturers invented a new style. While ago I don't know exactly when it's basically a hybrid to Japanese Western knife. And Japanese Western knives are insane in that they are not sharpened symmetrically necessarily. The other thing is that there is no manufacturer, there's no like a cross manufacturer standard for what the asymmetrical bevel is. And so you have to actually look at your knife and what you typically do if you're not good at seeing what the edge is, you just take a Sharpie, and you mark on the edge of the blade with a sharpie so you can see where the bevel is on both sides. And then you take your knife gently against a very, very fine stone and you you try to get the angle right and you look at the Sharpie, and you see whether or not you've worn away the Sharpie, flat across the bevel of the knife and if you have you've gotten the same angle that the manufacturer made now typical the also the way that they specify angles is insane. So when you talk about a bevel, you'll hear people say things like 7030 or 9010. And what that means and by the way, your knife probably isn't sharpened on one side only. It's Probably like a like somewhere between a 9010 and a 7030. What that means is, is that 70% of the bevel on the knife is on one side versus the other, right? So if it was zero and 100, then it would be 100% flat blade, which basically none of those western style Japanese knives are. And then, you know, if 10% of the bevel is on one side and 90% another, it's a 9010, you get the picture. But But what that doesn't tell you is what the entire angle of the of the edge is, right? So if you were to sharpen a western style knife, and you were to have so that the bevel would be equal, that's why we call it 5050. Right? Then you would say, Okay, what's my total edge angle, and an older knife with kind of these you know, less modern steel, the bigger the angle, right, the less fragile your blade is, but the dollar it is, and so, newer Steel's you can get a total angle all the way down to like 17 degrees, some people go down to like 15 degrees, that's my knives won't handle that. But like older style knives, I'm typically having it like 30 degrees, which is very wide for modern standard, not as easier to they don't break, but you know, not not nearly as sharp. So you have to specify what the total angle is on the on the blade and then whether or not that bevel is skewed, one way or the other. Personally, I find Japanese Western knives a pain in the butt to sharpen, I don't like sharpening them. I've never been good at sharpening them. I'm very good at sharpening Western knives. Well, not very good. I'm good enough at sharpening Western eyes, and I'm pretty proficient with Japanese knives. But I find the Japanese Westerns difficult. Now, the advantage theoretically of the asymmetric grinding is that it cuts differently. And so it's designed to cut for left handed person or a right handed person and bear in mind that in in Japan when you're cutting that way, you're making very specific slices and so if you are cutting with your right hand, the slice is always going to fall off on the right side. And so the bevel is designed to facilitate that kind of that kind of cutting your particular knife. The glycin Knives are well known for what's called a Granton edge as well which is a scallop be scallopini divots that are taken out of the blade. Those things have nothing to do with sharpness that reduces stickiness, supposedly and I've never used one but you know a lot of a lot of friends that swear by it. Basically those little dimples prevent your food from sticking to the blade anyway. As for sharpening it's oh by the way, if some of these knives can be reground to be 5050 If you want to sharpen them like a traditional knife has that was a call or something like that he was pulling on me because

she thought My shirt was polyester so she stopped minimal thing. It's not it's cut. Anyway. So So So anyway, so you can regrind if it turns out that you can't get used to sharpening and asymmetric bevel you can have these knives reground some knives take to that better than others and there's professionals that will do it for you when you're in New York next go to Korean and or buy their knife sharpening video. It's insane. They're They're insane. Now, here's another thing. Don't believe the hype you hear on the internet about different kinds of grids and different you know, it's insane. First of all, there's no international standard for what grids are. So people who are buying Japanese Waterstone's have fantastically high grids think that they're in a higher grid means a finer particle, they think that their sharpening stones are whipping but on all of the American stones that we have, the fact of the matter is is that the Japanese grit definition is wildly different and not even applicable to American Grit definitions. So it's not a one to one correspondence if you have a 3000 if you have a 3000 Japanese grit waterstone, it is not mean that it's three times as sharp as an American stone rated at 1000. Alright, so bear that in mind. Here's another thing Japanese water stones are a pain in the butt. Any real stone needs to be dressed a bunch to keep it flat. They need to be watered or oiled. When you're using them. I find them to be a pain in the butt. I don't I don't use them. I use DMT diamond stones, which and I use their duo sharp 10 inch bench home which is big, you want a big big stone sharpened on because it means that you can get more of a swipe without having to lift your blade and reposition it, which means you can be more accurate and everything's faster. Everything's more pleasant. The DMT stones are awesome. Because they're small, they're light and they still for their size and they store very easily. They last forever and they never need to be flattened again. Some people don't like it, because they're purists. But everyone I've handed to including Niels was like, you know who's like oh man that no one wants that. And he used it he bought one right. So you want to get the if you get it though, you want to get the fine and the extra fine, which is the green dot and the red dot and you flip it over and you start on the coarser which is the fine and then you finish with a light light couple of strokes on the on the extra fine side. Those things will last forever. It takes a little bit of a break in before they get as fine as they're going to get because there's some errant particles of diamond that are bonded on the surface. And once those get knocked off, it's very consistent. Very good. I like it a lot but you know your Japanese knife buddies will will think that you're a Philistine but crap on them because your knives are going to be incredibly sharp. What do you think says Good job. Good. All right. Now is there anything else I wanted to add when enters I could go to Korean. I wish the prices hadn't gone up so much. It's crazy, too. Hi, David has Dasha. First of all a hearty Mazel Tov on your new venture, which is the bar. I hope to check it out next time I'm in town. It's a bummer that I just missed the opening. Thank you so much for your advice on how to make a recent New York trip. culinarily satisfying by the way, this is from Brian who called us earlier. Unfortunately, I didn't have as much time as I wish but Highlights included the crudo enchilada at Ely if you had crude really? No, really. I can't I can't stand the lines that it's crazy. It's like a madhouse. It's like I feel like like a madhouse Yeah, they must make more money than God this guy's Yeah, yeah. The grid another guy makes money doesn't need money. The great spices at lab was a piece coming in from the freezing cold to a deliciously warm noodles at toto ramen, which I haven't been to yet you've been there was a good Android and the corn cookie from milk bar buddies at milk bar the corn cookie is in fact my favorite cookie there and visited JB Prince and JB branch chef superstore. I love that place which needed a tour guide explain to me what all the cool crap was that was in there. They didn't say crap. It's had something else but it can't say it on the show. Today my question is about dry using various dry aging various meats and fish. I've heard of dry aged beef, of course. But this post which is referenced from Chuck EADS, a well known blog about a meal at San Francisco's essays on restaurant references aging fish and poultry. I'm especially interested in aging fish, how can I do it safely can age for laser steaks or just the whole fish. The article reference the seven day aging for fish killed via EKG may more on that later, as well as an 80 day smoked tuna belly that had been aged and smoked periodically. It also mentioned aging pigeons for 21 days, 43 days, 50 days and 73 days. It also mentioned that they were aged with their viscera intact for a while first before dry aging and what does that do? It also mentioned that one of the pigeons had been salted to encourage fermentation How can I guarantee that it won't spoil I read the latest lucky peach that McGee recommend dry aging take place in a dedicated fridge with the meat hung and using primal cuts. But how can I do this method at home with poultry and fish? Okay, thanks so much Brian. You ever watched Shogun when you were a kid no mini series funny so you know western style. You know western style game birds typically are killed and then hung until what they're called high and what that means is until they stink in they're about to fall apart. And one of the funny scenes when you're like you know a 10 year old watching Shogun on a on a TV show is the Western guy I guess Portuguese guy shows up, get put puts a pigeon up hangs it and the villagers think that this is spoiled. And so someone like basically, you know, literally takes it down and then commit seppuku foot before the act of ruining the guest pigeon. And when I was young, I was like, Man, that's crazy. And I'm sure that's just some sort of like weird like, it's got to be some sort of weird racist things. Because it no one's going to commit seppuku over a pigeon. I just don't think it's going to happen. I just don't buy it. Do you buy that? I mean, some sort of punishment maybe for ruining the guy's pigeon, but seppuku. Really? Anyway. 70s racism, there's nothing better okay. But as far as EKG May, so EKG may on fish, the technique with EEG GMA is you take a large tuna, they always do it on because very expensive fish. I've said this a million times before, so I apologize. You can just glaze over for a minute while I talk about it, is you destroy the brain. And then you do a technique called Shinken Nuki, which means no spine and you shove a needle down the spine of the fish destroy the spinal cord. What you're doing when you destroy the spinal cord is stopping any messages, electrical messages from getting to the muscles. And what that's doing is preserving the ATP, the energy in the muscles, and what that's doing is allowing the muscles to go into rigor later and softer. The faster you deplete the ATP and a muscle the faster and the harder it goes into rigor mortis. fish flesh, in particular because it's so delicate compared to meat flushes tends to rip itself apart during rigor, if the rigor is too hard. And when it comes out of rigor you're going to get more weeping more loss of the of juices more gaping in the flesh and just an overall not as good texture. The flavor is also affected. I don't really know why. From a from a scientific point of view, why the flavor would be affected, but in side by side taste test it is. So that's what the EPG May is now very widely held misconception that fish is better. Fresh fish is best when fish is best, not when it's necessarily the freshest. So when I go into a market and I see a bunch of fish and they're so psyched that they just got the fish off the boat, but the fish is in hard, hard rigor because of the way It was killed and died. And you can see it's curled up in in a hard, hard rigor. Like that fish is not the best it's going to be church the freshest maybe. But the texture isn't necessarily the best, it's going to be in a funny view that ever cooked a fish that's in rigor mortis. It's quite hard and doesn't have the kind of tenderness that we expect with it with a fish. So almost all fish like especially larger fishes take a long time to come out of rigor. So things like salmon, things like tuna, you would never eat them hyper hyper fresh because they have to go into rigor and come out again and soften up and be excellent. With EKG may I've run tests on smaller EKG me, and they are clearly better the second day after they're killed, and good. The third day after they're killed larger fish like tuna, it's typical to go many days and salmon many days to get the optimal, optimal texture on it. Now, the bad news is with fish is that the minute you reach that optimal taste and texture, it goes rapidly downhill, so you have to know kind of exactly where to serve it. So the real high end sushi joints, know exactly how old each piece of fish is. And they're not serving you the freshest fish. They're serving you the fish that's at its peak of flavor. And for each species of fish, and for each way that it's killed. The time that it's best to eat it is different. And that is part of the great art and Miss mystique and mystical power of the sushi chef is to know that kind of thing.

As regards the longer age, stuff like a tuna belly, these are typically cured products that aren't going to go spoil and they can last as long as you'd like. And they're you're fighting against how dry is it going to be. And how much is the taste changing and most of the taste changing some of its going to be due to protein breakdown, obviously, but also fat breakdown, especially in something like tuna. Now the reason that McGee recommends pork cuts are primal cuts is because a they're going to lose moisture faster. And for dry aging, something like beef, you don't want it to get dried out like a jerky, you want the moisture to stay inside, you're going to lose some and that's going to increase in concentrate the flavors but you don't want to lose a lot. And also most of the spoilage and funkiness is going to be on the outside. So the larger the piece of meat, the bigger the bigger it's going to be after you trim off whatever's on the outside, the less loss you're gonna get. And also remember the inside of meat is sterile, there's not a lot of bacteria in there. And so it's not going to spoil the outside is going to get a little dry, therefore the bacteria aren't going to grow too much on the outside of the of the thing. It's not like a swamp, you know, to me that way. You don't want to keep it too too humid. And then and then after that, you can just age it and you can age it for a long, long, long, long, long, long, long time. Now, on birds, if you keep the viscera now I have shot a pheasant and the the viscera got punctured by a BB I didn't really know what the hell I was doing, you know not be whatever they called shot from shotgun. And we hung that thing up for three days and man to the inside of that things stink, I almost vomited when I gutted that thing and pluck the feathers because the stench was just unfreaking real. Now it still tasted good because I soaked it in salt solution afterwards scrubbed out the inside, and it was okay. And I cut away the parts where the visceral juices had hit the meat where the gun had gone in. I looked at that Chuck eats blog post and all of those birds were smothered basically so there was no chance for the viscera to leak into the cavity and cause a lot of awful bacterial spoilage. The inside of the bird is sterile except for the stuff that's on the inside of the alimentary canal which is full of bacteria. So I don't know exactly why leave it in for a couple of days maybe increases the funk does a little bit of something then cut it open. I would bet they probably even though you say some of them are unsalted I would bet they salted a little bit to dry out the outside of the meat and then the inside that hasn't been cut is relatively sterile and can be it's especially if there's air coming around and getting around it is not going to really spoil. It's just going to get funkier and funkier and funkier than make any thanks yeah all right. So listen, we're gonna go to our first commercial break and we'll come back with more cooking issues god sorry I can't hear ya man. Me the eyes Bucha low man then repertory Egon one moment goes. Up best bet for me

Jack Welch was that Hector Laveau nice and welcome back. And what do you say? Oh,

the song was no content.

That just means the song right the singer, the singer, singer, the singer sings the song. Yeah, so is this and Barry Manilow references this prior to very mentally? I think it's probably our if we have another break you're going to do the I sing the song I write the songs a little bit. All right, cool. And all your questions. 27184972128 That's 718-497-2128 They said it right anyway. Today's show is brought to you by modernist pantry supplying innovative ingredients for the modern cook their back they like us for a while they were like, Oh man, that's so much the cooking. Anyway, do you love to experiment with new cooking techniques and ingredients but hate to overspend for pounds and supplies when only a few grams are needed per application? Modernist pantry has a solution. They offer a wide range of modern ingredients and packages it makes sense for the home cook and enthusiast again, whatever and most costs only around five bucks saving you time, money and storage space. 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And as such, we should call them we're actually running low on SPL and I don't want to buy a whole 25th I believe Yeah, yeah, SPL the magic enzyme we use that named anything and everything, you know that literally our bar, if you were to suddenly take away pick the next SPL from us, like like all of our recipes would would change and have to change all of our recipes. It's it's an every damn thing. It's like, it's not a season but like you know, it's like we use it like it's salt. It's everything everywhere. Everything is SPL Ultra SPL ultra ultra SPL. Okay. Go to a question here, dear Anastasia and Dave, this is from Kevin in North Carolina, like North Carolina haven't been a long time you don't in North Carolina. So what do you know about North Carolina? I don't like I think you know, okay. Well she's referring to is mustache his parents live in outside of Los Angeles. Okay, folks? Well, I don't know. But you make a crap they don't like North Carolina and I have to talk about and they say okay, look, we don't want we want to escape the humidity. Not that I knew that was a problem in LA because I don't go to LA but I don't want to escape the humidity. And so where do they go? Where do they buy a house? The Outer Banks of North Carolina, right? Not even North Carolina from the Outer Banks of North Carolina. And I've only been there a couple of times, but it's the most humid place on Earth. The giant biting green flies need to learn to swim through the atmosphere because it's so humid. I looked up online as a joke and one of the people live down there said I was walking down the street the other day. And what do you what do you say is a squirrel JC squirrel chasing a bass into a tree because it's so dang humid over there. And only only a relative of Anastasia would move to the Outer Banks of North Carolina to escape the humidity. So I love North Carolina, especially the eastern side of North Carolina and their barbecue, which is one of the finest American traditional products we have to offer. Thank you so much. Annastacia trying to make it seem like I don't like it. It's gone. Anyway. I recently made venison sausage and at the time I did not have much pork fat to add to the Lean venison only about 1.5 pounds per 10 pounds of final product. And as you know, Kevin that's not enough. The sausage is okay. But we'd be better with more fat. Yes, would. I now have a plethora of high quality pork fat having recently broken down half of an Aussie ball cross from a quality farm. The sausage was stuffed into college and casings smoking, smoked and frozen. What do you think about thawing? Re mixing the sausage with more fat and re stuffing into casing with the texture suffer? Would you re smoke it? Love the show? Keep up the good work, Kevin. Okay, first of all, for those of you that aren't down with, you know kind of your pig terminology. And ossabaw Cross is a cross usually with Yurok, which is a relatively like good tasting fatty, but commercial pig with an ossabaw Pig ossabaw pigs come from ossabaw Well, originally from ossabaw Island off the coast of Georgia, where the theory is, is that a herd of pigs was dropped off there by Conquistador style folks, I guess in the 1500s and just left there and there was no in there's no breeding, no selective breeding, then there was no influx of new genes and so they develop their own race based on this kind of Iberian hog that it put there but they became dwarfs. So it's these tiny and apparently means son of a bitch. Pigs that have the most incredibly large fat cap around the meat that I've ever seen because they are designed to put on fat like lunatics because they the season, I guess that the feed there is so scarce. And that's why they became dwarf, there's not a lot of feed there on the island. And so they're incredibly efficient at converting food to fat. And they're small. So they're very interesting. I first had an awesome ball, ham probably I don't know, like 2004 2003 or something like that when they're first coming out. And they're quite interesting. And the ossabaw cross is kind of a good mix, because they're a little bit bigger. And they're nice anyway. Now, on to your question I, I am, I would be hesitant about throwing and re mixing it and then re stuffing it into a casing from a texture standpoint. I mean, you could try it. First of all, I mean, if you have the venison, if you had a circulator, even with that low amount of fat, you could cook it at a low low temp. And you wouldn't dry it out even though it's there's not a sufficient amount of fat there. And then you could split it and drizzle some fat over it to get that kind of fatty, anxious taste in. I mean, I hesitate when you mix a sausage, obviously, everyone knows this, you put in the salt. And the basically you create the primary bind and it glues together. I don't know if you've already smoked it, like how cooked through it is your smoke. Once it's cooked through, it's not going to bind the same way again. So you could probably maybe add some of that product back into a back end fillers. Let's say you were to add like a like us half of that, grind it up and add it into a fresh sausage make so you could get the bind proper again, with the fat. Maybe that would work. But I don't think the texture is going to be the same. And then if you add more you could really smoke it but then you're going to be double smoking a portion of it. So you'd have to work around. I mean, I'm not saying it can't be done. I just don't know if it can be done. I don't know. Hey, that's not very helpful. But what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? It's all I know, Kevin next time I'll try to be better. Right? Anyway, so much. There's only so much I can do like so much I know. Okay. Hi Dave. Natasha, Jack and indeed Jesus. Wow, Carlos gets no love though. Carlos to get love from me brother. So, indeed, Jesus is in rare form today. He's wearing he's wearing the Jesus Christ Superstar bandana, which I appreciate. It's one of my favorite looks at his Sunday. He's gonna come in here with a knife and cut all of our heads off, you know? Mine I like him. I like him to WAIT, what the hell are you talking about? First of all, the stash is the one that brings on anyway, whatever. You know, this is like a typical Anastacia trick. If any of you guys ever end up working with this dosha for whatever reason, just know that what she'll do is goad you into saying something when nobody's listening and then skewer you for it as though you're a bad human beings. That's like classic the statue trick. Anyway. I have a question I think has got to be right up your alley. I've heard a lot of discussion lately about the use of use of large spheres of ice and drinks. Some people have told me that, that that way. Some people told me things that demonstrate nothing other than that they couldn't pass high school physics boom. One person gave up in a minute. He just thinks they look cool. I'm now I'm intrigued enough to want to know more. So Dave, as the modern modernist mixologist, you are I'm sure you you are as a modernist mixologist you are I'm sure you can save me a ton of time and experimentation. Please clear the air and let the world know what people are trying to achieve with spheres. Is it faster cooling, slower cooling, less water in the drink for the same amount of cooling or something else and is using spheres instead of other shapes actually accomplish the goal? Okay, thanks, D. Okay, listen. I have a very particular things. The SPHERES to me are simply a presentation aid. Nobody is shaking with spheres right there. They're straight up presentation. Now, and the way that you make those spheres by the way, well, there's a couple of ways people can hack the spheres. And those are the rough kind of ones and then they'll polish them out, polish them out with something warm so that they look a little more spherical. And then there's the aluminum block melted spheres where someone you where you buy a big block of aluminum with a sphere shape in it, and the aluminum quickly melts the ice into a sphere. So either those two ways are possible. And what they do is they look cool in the glass right? Now as regards to cooling. The cooling power of ice is not dependent on the shape, but the cooling rate is in the sense that

the more surface area you have of ice in contact with the liquid, the faster the liquid is going to cool and the faster it's going to dilute. There's no such thing as something that cools without diluting or dilutes without cooling when it comes to ice. Every every bit of cooling that a block of ice does in a drink is done by melting and diluting and every bit of diluting that a block of ice does in a drink is done by chilling the drink down or by losing to the atmosphere but over the short stint you know short point is basically all involved in the drink. So A large block of ice spherical or square or whatever, right? will typically because it has most of its volume on the inside and less surface area for the amount of ice will chill slower, will not be as cold and will be less diluted in your drink. If you were to put finely shaved ice in, it would have an immense surface area, it would show very quickly, but be very diluted, right. And there's no other way around that you can't you can't you can't get around that for a given volume of ice, a sphere is going to have, I believe, less surface area than a I'd have to do the math, but I believe a sphere will have less surface area than a square for a given volume of ice, and therefore will have probably less chilling power and therefore probably less dilution. But the real fact of the matter is, is that usually those spheres are quite wet when they're put in. And so there's a lot of dilution anyway. And I would say those effects are minimal. I would say that is strictly a presentation tool. Now, I don't know anyone that shakes a drink with spherical ice, because that would be crazy. But you know, there is a possibility that the texture of a shake and drink can be affected by the size and configuration of the ice in the shaker. But that's an entirely different different kind of kind of a question. So I don't know whether I've cleared the way clear the air on it. Yeah, pretty clear. Yeah. made any sense at all. All right. Okay. We have a comment in from Adam Walker in Bowmanville, Ontario. Thanks for taking the time to answer my glucose syrup question last week, I've done some reading. And it is way more complicated than just having enough dextrose to make it sweet and maltodextrin and make it viscous. Even just having a mix of multi dextran seems important for having a proper mix of maltodextrins. He's important for inhibiting crystallization in some applications. Maybe I could adapt some recipes, but it's not going to be identical. I'll just ask modernist pantry to stock it. I'd rather buy from somebody that supports the show. Yeah, yeah. I did find a great book on the topic, called the handbook of starch hydrolysis products and their derivatives 1995. And you can look at a preview on it and Google Books. And in fact, it is pretty good book. I was reading some of it this morning, which is part of the reason that I came in almost as late again, because I was reading the handbook of starch hydrolysis products. But Adam found a couple of things that you readers, my listeners might find interesting. One glucose series were invented because Britain got their sugar supply cut off during the Napoleonic Wars. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting that they started producing it because of that pretty cool, a lot of cool food, things were because of wars, you know, like canning, like Napoleon needed to feed his armies and so upair who is working on canning, the first really accurate a good canning method was basically a result of the Napoleonic Wars as well. So there you have it, and two, he says cyclodextrin sound cool. cyclodextrins by the way, are chains of glucose that are formed into a ring and they have some cool cool properties. They are grass which means generally regarded as safe by the government and have been used to hold on to flavor and industrial food. Wikipedia tells me they are an ingredient in February's I love to breeze. Like when you have a stink like when you have stinky gym clothes like and they get all pediments like I used to soak all that crap in for breeze February's My wife hates the smell of rubies, but I just like the word as the breeze anyway. Wikipedia tells me that ingredient for breeze that traps the stink. It's a good traps the stink eye. Has anybody found good culinary uses for cyclodextrins other than in for breeze but you're not using in culinary things. Oh, and to answer the question we were talking about before on their honeymoon, they got married in October but didn't want to plan the honeymoon on top of planning the wedding. Is that what you said you said was what you said it could be money he said was one of those whatever, you just change your change your story, whatever it is just change your story, you know, saying and then she'll say I have an uncanny feeling and congratulations on opening the bars now on cyclodextrins. The interesting thing about cyclodextrin is the inside of the cyclodextrin. It's not hydrophobic, but it's less hydrophilic than the outside. But the cyclodextrin itself is going to keep its structure and be very soluble in water. So it's used a complex, somewhat hydrophobic ingredients into water and that's why it's used as a carrier in flavors in industrial applications. I haven't heard of anyone using it in food so we'll see break. We'd have to take a break. Yeah, all right. We're gonna go another break. Come back with cooking your

shoes my dream last night was about Alibaba. We call Tom Tom the bad person. He was there with me. I wrote drew a value with a princess. The Duke and the Duchess was to teach him to smile She was staring far away that she wasn't there to tell the credit game smiling with a big smile

so that song was actually emailed in from a listener. Just now a few days ago, I think. Yeah, from Andy Melka. That song is John Holt, it's called Alibaba.

I liked that I would like Alibaba, my son, my younger son, Dax is obsessed with Alibaba due to the 30s or 40s, Popeye cartoon where Bruto bluedot. Or Brutus, wherever he was at that time plays Alibaba loves that stuff. Maybe we can get that song. It's called I'm a terrible guy to get that for next week. Good, good business. So, by the way, I forgot to mention this when I was talking about Saison, the restaurant that Chuck eaves posts with the aging and all that, cuz I've never been there. You know, I haven't been to San Francisco in a while I was talking to Daniel Patterson, Daniel Patterson came into the bar last night, we were talking about the state of eating in San Francisco. And he says that the state of eating and remember, by and large, most people on earth think that it wasn't broken to begin with, because people love eating in San Francisco, right? But then you have kind of like the school of thought which Dave Chang famously was almost banned from the city for saying that the whole dang city is just, you know, a really nice fig on a plate. Basically, they just cut off. He doesn't talk like this. They just crumble thing and put it on a plate. That's not how Dave Chang talks. But Beatitudes. Right, right. Anyway, so. So Anywho. So Patterson was telling me who his restaurant was, like one of my favorite restaurants in San Francisco. I love his cooking. It's great stuff. And it's funny, if you ask him if he's an interesting guy, he wrote some time for The New York Times. And a friend of the show, I was gonna ask him to get on the show this morning. But his flight out was at seven in the morning. So he didn't he said next time he's in the city will come to the show. He says the state of eating is, is getting better and better every day. Anyway. Saison is the restaurant that had all that, you know, the crazy age pages and all that. But here's the when I was looking it up on the internet's I had an I hate Yelp. By the way, I made the mistake of looking at our Yelp reviews. And I wanted to I was like, here's the thing. I'm over it now. I'm never going to look at it again. Really. I mean, it's just you know, Yelp is crazy, because, but by the way, I learned a lot from the Yelp reviews to try and like, you know, I did fix some stuff based on what I saw on the Yelp review. So you know, that's there, but the reviews there forever. It just the whole thing is it's crazy. drives you crazy. It's nutty. Anyway, I can't deal with it. But I looked on some sort of Yelp equivalent, or Google and I saw for Saison, the restaurant. The very best restaurant review I've ever seen in my life. You ready for it? It was it was two sentences. Very romantic. pricey, but we'll get you laid. I was like, Man, that's everything you need to know. Everything you need to know about a restaurant. Right? Awesome. Anyway. Yeah. So for those who this is the first time you're listening, longtime listener Ken Ingber is having an ongoing feud with Natasha Lopez on her use of the Internet and various texting and technological things while we're trying to do a radio show. Now, I will have everyone who cares about this? No, that she in fact, was not doing that today. No, she was paying attention today. Yes, yes. Nice. Anyway, So Ken, this is sinister. This is from canned tuna. Stasha. Sorry, I upset you. Although unbalanced, I think you will have to agree that it made for some funny radio. I was delighted that you appreciate the irony of my complaining about you're reading my email on air. While I was actually like you multitasking while listening, I appreciate that Dave took my side. But Jack really made an excellent point. If the vast majority of listeners yesterday were me, then you're probably responding to my email instead of paying attention to the show, which turned out to be exactly the customer service day. Dave says all of your listeners deserve so boom crap on me, huh? Yeah, grab on me. What do you think Jack? crap on me? crap on me. Yeah. Anyway, more from Kenneth Burke, because King Kennedy were as decided that we're going to try this rebel coffeemaker coming tonight and they're coming tonight to the bar to test it out. And we'll see. We'll see how the thing is, I'm excited as as I've said before on the show Breville huge fans of the Dave Chang they love Dave Chang, so hopefully they'll then love me as well, right? Yes, yes. Okay. Now, last thing up. Talk about the blog for a second. Yes, I realized I haven't done it since October. I also realized I haven't written that my serious needs column. I owe that from just before Halloween. This eats column seriously. It's Jesus Christ eater. In either either column this dash is giving me the D bag face now just ASHA has a couple faces she has the vegan face was the other one, remember and the D bag face she's giving me the D back face. Anyway, I owe Craigie on Main some answers. And there. It's a great restaurant in Boston. And they're good people. So I'm going to answer that. But I've decided what my coming out of semi retirement post is going to be. But I'm going to do a post on technique we're working on at the bar called nitro modeling. And it's a cool technique. And so here it goes. So everybody who uses liquid nitrogen knows that you can put an herb in blender with liquid nitrogen, blend it to a fine powder and get these amazing kind of fresh powdered herbs, right. But we're now doing that in the bar. And here's what we do. We take a regular, you know, regular shaking tin for, you know, cocktail tin, and we put nine Thai basil leaves into it, pour the liquid nitrogen on top, they get crunchy really quick at Lee, and then we pour off the extra liquid nitrogen, muddle it, just like it was regular mint. I have to work on that a little bit because the noise of muddling frozen stainless steel is insane. Maybe we should try it in glass. Maybe it'll work in glass. without cracking. We'll find out. You muddle it, then you add the spirit. And it's very important, unlike normal bartending practices to add the spirit first. And the reason is, is because the alcohol and the spirit will prevent the thawing herbs from getting that swampy browned out taste because it inhibits the enzymes that are in them. And those things get that taste relatively quickly because they're so finely broken up right. So you pour the the spirit in while it's still frozen, swirl it thought out, we add so we're doing Thai basil, rum, rum, rum, rum, and then we're doing we're using a white rum Florida Kanye actually. And then we add simple syrup, lime, swirl it around, shake it, like a normal cocktail, put it through a fine mesh strainer, and only the green particles of the Thai basil that are crushed fine enough to make it through finally enough to make it through that. That strainer, get into your drink. And you have a bright green incredibly fresh Thai basil daiquiri nitrile muddling cooking issues.