Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones, and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun. Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium. It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry. With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape. We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show. Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29, we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world. So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

broadcasting live from Roberta's in Bushwick, Brooklyn, you're listening to heritage Radio network.com.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cookie issues coming to you live every tuesday from about 12 to 1245 on the heritage radio network, in the back of Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn. joined as usual in the studio with Natasha the hammer Lopez, how're you doing? I'm fine. And we got Jack and Carlos in the engineering booth. Hey, fellas, how's it going? Well, last week was the second kind of anniversary slash holiday party, the heritage radio network. When good time was had by all correct Jack

was awesome. Sorry for cursing in front of your kids.

Well, he they are not first of all, first of all, they're not. And second of all, we did the ear muffs. So I did a very effective era so much. My daddy, what are you doing? Anyway? Okay, call in all of your questions to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128. Is that right?

That's right. You got it.

All right. So we have some questions to get you from by the way, this week is the last pre Christmas show Correct? Mustache? Yes. So next week, you have to ask all of your Christmas cooking related questions, because that will be our last opportunity to answer them. Yeah. We could do it next week. No, I'm doing sure next week with the ask the question. That's the questions. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, last night, I was on the Anthony Bourdain at the no reservation show, which I wasn't able to watch because I don't have cable and a star. She was able to watch it and said that I didn't come off like an idiot, which means they must have heavily edited me. No, it was good. It was compared to the rest of the show. You were the best part. Wow. Why don't you insult the rest of the show there. Who was on it? Was Christopher Walken. He was on it. Right? I only watched until 45. So you missed it. You missed the wagon, and I might have you love Christopher Walken. Everybody loves Christopher Walken. How can you miss the walk? Anyway? Maybe some time I was tired. My 28 or 29 year old body can't handle staying up till 11 anymore. Nice. Okay. So let's get to some of last week's questions. While we're at it. Ellie last week had two questions. I was only able to answer one of them. This one comes in on verification aka the tiny balls. I use sodium alginate baths for specifications once in a while. I do that based on a recipe from the Alinea book mostly, so typically mixed the food To be specified with calcium lactate. This is a reverse specification. We'll go into that in a minute. This works great and I get no bad taste. But I always wonder why I can't use a straight up calcium that I get from the grocery store instead of calcium lactate or calcium lactate glucan, eight, and made yogurt spheres once and they work great with no additional calcium. Anything since the yogurt was already high without any additional calcium, anything because the yogurt was already high in calcium. Is playing calcium not soluble in a food liquid in its pure form, maybe what is the deal? Alright, the deal is, there's a couple of deals. One, for those of you who don't know what we're talking about sodium alginate is a seaweed derivative hydrocolloid that as soon as you get a solution of it, and it touches calcium, it forms an irreversible gel. The downside is there's two downsides. One is that there's three, it doesn't taste very good, because it locks in flavor to the texture is not particularly pleasant on its own. And the third problem is, is that if you were to take a flavor, let's say and mix it with alginate, dropping to calcium, it turns solid, you know, very quickly, once it's solid, it has basically no flavor to it at all. So mean, no good, no good flavor anyway. So what Ellie's doing is called reverse verification, where he put the calcium into your flavor, and you drop it into alginate. And it just forms a thin membrane around the outside. Now, calcium is not extraordinarily soluble in water. Foods that naturally have a lot of calcium in them can be used for reverse verification. So for instance, olives, typically already, I don't know whether they have natural calcium, but they usually add calcium to the brine that they're in to keep them crisp. And that's enough to do reverse verification. So calcium are basically in there's a grade of bad taste to, to solubility, basically. So the most soluble form calcium is the worst tasting, and it's calcium chloride, it tastes horrible. You'd never use reverse certification for that calcium lactate slightly better calcium lactate glucan, eight slightly better yet, I don't know what the form of calcium is that you can get in the supermarket grocery. But most forms of calcium of calcium carbonate is very insoluble, and you're not going to get very good results. But fruit juices that are doped with calcium, I think are typically doped with a calcium lactate glucan eight, and so those would probably work. So the other thing that you need to bear in mind is that the more available the more calcium that's available in the system, the stronger the gel setting is. So if you need a very strong gel, you need a very hard fast form of calcium. And that's when you bust out the lactate or god forbid, the chloride. If you want a softer gel, you can use a less available form of calcium or less calcium total. So I think you'll notice that the less calcium have there, or the less available the calcium is to the alginate The softer the gel will be. And that has to do with the fact that basically the strength of the gel is kind of dictated as it's forming. So it just leaving it longer and a calcium bath will cause more gel to form but won't make it a lot lot stronger. Anyway, what do you think? Yeah, good job. Okay, now got some interesting question in on ducks. Ducks. Yeah. Jacob says anything that says no, not spelled like the airplane the Cessna 172 being kind of the hallmark private aircraft the Cessna 172 anyway but not spelled that way spell Cessna says good morning guys. A longtime listener first time writer, I have a crap ton of questions. By the way, Jacob I changed your actual wording, which wasn't crap time but remember, this is now a family show. So we can't can't curse anymore Jack. Okay, I have a crap ton of questions. But we will start with a few easy ones. I do a good amount of hunting and just had a big on ducks the other weekend. I have breast some a bunch of spoonies that's a spoonful duck by the way, and have a few to that I've plugged in vacuum sealed and are waiting for me in the fridge. I already ate some of the spoonies I butterflied. The breasts open then rolled them in some housemaid guanciale from McDonald's in San Francisco and quickly sear them in a hot cast iron skillet guanciale for those of you not in the know is cured pig gel. And it's one of the maybe the most delicious things you can put on a pizza What do you think it's some delicious mustache? I could have just said some any kind of crazy thing and especially when just just sit Uh huh. She actually don't like Anjali but we don't you don't like what Charlie? Oh my God. Jesus Damn. Oh my god. Okay. In San Francisco quickly seared them in a hot cast iron skillet. My girlfriend and I had that with some duck liver mousse she made and it was awesome. The moose was on bread and on the duck rest. Probably good plan. I recently returned from some training at Quantico Quantico containing nice money it's Quantico US Marines, right. So I am getting caught up on your old shows. And I heard you talk about upland game and waterfowl, any tips on cooking the few breasts I have have left and the two tails. Okay? Now

here's the deal. So the regular duck breasts right wants to cook anywhere between, excuse me 57 Celsius, which is about 135 and 58 Celsius. Depending on how tough the duck breast is, you don't want to over you don't want to cook one of these things too long, even on a regular farm race duck, after a long cooking time, the breasts are gonna start losing their texture and they're gonna taste livery and gamey. My assumption is, if you're doing a wild duck, that that's going to happen a lot, lot faster. But I would try the breasts cvwd at 57, I would try them for I'll try one just to see what it's like about 57 or 57 and a half for about an hour, pull it down, and then sear it off and see kind of what result you get. If it's too tough, you could try going longer, like to hours but you're starting to start probably getting a livery gamey taste in it, but I'm really curious as to what kind of results you get out of it. Now another thing to be aware of, and I'm sure you know, this as a hunter is that the taste of the animal is wildly dependent on what the duck has been eating and this has been known for centuries. So I did some some research for you. First I looked in my after the hunt book, which is John falses book on hunting in in Louisiana, and he had only one recipe for for spoon mill but it was so like kind of doped up with stuff that I doubt you can taste with a spoon Bill spoonbill actually tasted like but he made an interesting point, it canvasbacks well known as one of the kind of best tasting ducks that you can get. But he says what they probably don't taste as good as they used to because they used to graze a lot on Wild Celery and basically all of that all of that is gone. But that led me to more research I was like, Well, what do spoonbills aka shovelers shovel, shovel knows ducks up eat because what they do is they stick their their big ol you know, beak be what they call the mound with the bill, they stuck their big old bill into the mud and scoop crap up. So there was a study done in 1922 notes on the food habitats of the shoveler are spoon billed duck by W L McHattie. And basically what's interesting about the spoon bill is that it not only eats a lot of vegetable matter, but a lot of animal matter out of the mud in the inside, especially kind of small crustaceans. And so my guess is, is it's apt to have somewhat of a fishy taste. And so the thing is, is that can that be made a positive thing? Or is that inherently a negative thing? Edward T. Martin in 1918. In a hunter and trader trapper, the magazine makes a note that you can remove the skin of these ducks and a lot of the kind of fishy tastes because it's going to be concentrated in the fat is going to be concentrated in the skin. And so if you're having a problem with fishy take taste in a spoon bill, perhaps you can remove the skin and get rid of that. That'd be horrible because the skin is obviously one of the reasons why God invented the duck. He also if you read go in and read Edward T Martin's piece on ducks in the 1918 additional 100 Trap trader Trapper on Google, there's a very interesting discussion of rice birds, Carolina rice birds, which are one of my fascinations because it's the bubbling, which is the still extant bird that used to gorge themselves on rice as they flew south through the Carolinas. And there was such a pest that people go out and shoot them in droves, but they were incredibly delicious and can be eaten whole, similar to the French Ortolani. And I'll just read you one quick passage. I remember this is Edward T. Martin writing in 1918. I will remember how the Carolina rice fields were protected from the ravages of the rice birds by an army of plantation hands. They weren't slaves anymore, unfortunately. Well, fortunately for Christ, Jesus, you know what I mean? What I mean is, is fortunately, they weren't slaves slaves anymore, but they were still unfortunately held down in the plantation system. There's an excellent book called black rice by what's her first name? Beth, what's her name something carne and it's an amazing book on the evolution of the rice plantation in South Carolina. Specifically how the rice that was originally raised, there was an African type of rice glaberrima Rice, and the actual technology for raising that rice was introduced to the plantation owners by the first charter generation of slaves that were brought over to South Carolina, and then how they got co opted and ended up so they started out with kind of a better situation than many of the other slaves on the in the East Coast, and then got progressively worse because the conditions were so awful. After slavery was abolished, the rice plantations continued to exist, but the conditions were still horribly awful. And the only reason that it went away was because it turned out that mechanization couldn't be applied to the Carolina rice fields anyway. Crazy story. Okay. You guys know what I mean? It started giving me the WoW and I can't believe you're bad. You're low quality human being anyway, I will remember how the Carolina rice fields were protected from the ravages of the rice birds by an army of plantation hands armed with muskets and stationed along the way He's the birds so fat that could barely fly were given no rest. It was one constant bombardment. I have been in some skirmishes where the firing was no heavier. I guess he was in the war. Very few of the birds were very few of the birds killed were picked up. The object was to save the rice, but those that found their way to market were steamed as a great delicacy for the table. They were far ahead of any other game I ever ate. Not even accepting Woodcock. Okay. Okay. And then. So that's kind of answered that question. Jacob writes on and says something to think about because when I get the funds, I'm cooking cvwd I'm going to be emailing you a lot of questions. I've been talking to the guys at 4505 meets in San Francisco in the guise of fatted calf and Napa, I'm learning to make my own salumi. And because I like to hunt I've decided to turn a small enlace quarter my backyard into a meat retreat. I'm only 25 and don't have in laws and if I did, I wouldn't want them in my backyard like a bunch of vagrant vagrants. jagah let me tell you something, once you have kids, if you should have the kids someday, you're going to want the inlaws to come over to take care of the kids believe me. So you're going to have to convert that back from a meat retreat into an inlaw cabin once once you have the little ones. So my plan is to put a small us cooler game locker in along with areas to hold my meat slicer and butchering tables. I really want to Buffalo shopper and who doesn't. The big question is what to use as a fermentation curing chamber I was looking at us cooler mix floral coolers, which allow you to control temperature and humidity. But would they work is something to think about? Well, I don't know I was trying to look at a little bit of it. They're mainly meant for flowers, high humidity and cool. If you want to control it more you can also it's very easy to build a simple humidity temperature controller for like two 300 bucks so you could control however you want. I could go into that if anyone's interested later. I don't really have time unfortunately today but it's if you Google humidistat and or humidity control for a couple 100 bucks you can do it. And also Jacob writes in based on our recommendation, you got to look at garlic and Allianz for his girlfriend. She's a science and food nut and has her degree in mechanical engineering Mickey loves Mickey Mickey and W my two favorite E's and owns her own small bakery she thought it was pretty freakin awesome. Thanks for the help. Sincerely Jacob Should we take our first commercial break yeah all right bonus offers were already cutting oh she may be with them young girl they do get weird same shaggy dress but when she gets weird you know she's waiting. Yes. And just painting. back she'll never, never, never never Wow, she's there waiting. Without them

a little tenderness. Yeah. All right. So hey, welcome back to Cooking issues. Dave. I'm calling you question two. What is it 718-497-2128 That's 784972128. Today's show is sponsored by modernist pantry supplying innovative ingredients for the modern cook. Do you love to experiment with new cooking techniques and ingredients but hate to overspend for pounds and supplies when only a few grams are needed per application? Modernist pantry has a solution. They offer a wide range of modern ingredients and packages that makes sense for the home cooking enthusiast and most cost only around five bucks thanks stocking stuffer, saving you time, money and storage space. Whether you're looking for hydrocolloid pH buffers, or even meat like even meat glue, it's like meat glue is weirder than the rest of it. Yeah, what sounds good. Okay. You'll find it at modernist pantry and if you need something that they don't carry, just ask Chris Anderson and his team will be happy to source it for you. With inexpensive shipping to any country in the world monitors pantry is your one stop shop for innovative cooking ingredients. Modernist pantry values your feedback and encourage it. They have now decided to add product reviews to their website and he customer visits a site to post a review before next week's show. We'll get a free $10 gift certificate good towards the person of anything purchase of anything in the store, like Chris and company know what you love or what you'd improve about their products or service and help other customers by sharing your experience. Visit monitors pantry.com For all of your modernist cooking needs. Yeah, that's my new sound effect. You like that

paper crunching on the mic. Sounds awesome.

Yeah, does it really does. Okay. Gabe in NorCal writes in on rotisseries and frying heinous DATIA love the show. You and Dave are great. Thanks for doing it every week. You are welcome. I had a suggestion for a cooking equipment gift for the holidays as Dave requested at the end. In the last week show, a good quality deep fryer for the home probably can be had at a reasonable price gently used from Craigslist or eBay. I think it's under an underappreciated home appliance. Folks just need to take the plunge haha and use them. And I'm sure Dave can offer lots of suggestions for home use beyond french fries. Right? Who the hell did you pick a question that I like, Okay, look. For the past year, 12 years or so 1012 years I've had in my home a professional deep fryer. When I say professional, it requires 35 pounds of oil to fill it up and requires 90,000 BTUs of gas. Now, this sucker can take that 35 pounds of oil it's little more than five gallons, and heated up to frying temperatures in about five minutes flat. Now, there is so much and I got it for 50 bucks. By the way, a Mexican restaurant went out of business down at what the time was the World Trade Center, and I bought it there. And professional deep fryers now almost always have stainless steel kettles on the inside because they're easier to clean. I found an old black steel one. And because nobody wanted it, and because there was a tiny leak in the bottom of the kettle that I had to brace shut. I got it for 50 bucks, and I wheeled it home in a snowstorm and hooked it up and it's maybe the greatest thing I own. I love it. Here's the deal, people have a misconception about frying, when you have a large deep fryer like that the oil lasts a lot longer, the food tastes a lot better. And it's a lot just a lot better than it's not like a small fryer is a smaller version of a real fryer, a real restaurant fryer, especially a gas fired one tube fryer has what's called a cold zone. So what happens is, first of all, the tubes are very large and you have a very large flow a very large surface area to heat. So you're not locally overheating the oil anywhere. It also starts nice convection currents of oil so that it really heats up very, very quickly, very evenly has amazing recovery. The other thing is is that there's a large area below the tubes, where all of the little particles from your food that come off settled. Now in a normal fryer at home, that stuff just sits at the bottom of scorches, burns and ruins your oil. In a commercial fryer. They sink beneath the tubes into a much colder area of oil so they don't burn and they don't ruin the rest of your oil. They just settled to the bottom. Then at the end of the night you open it you drain your oil, you filter it out, you pour it back in and you're good to go. So your oil lasts a lot longer. Also, there's nothing on and by the way, a fry every damn thing in that thing I fry rack of lamb rack of goat prime rib steak, french fries, onion rings, fried chicken. Basically anything that you want to eat can be fried best way to test your oil when you're frying to see whether she's still good or not. And yes, it's a woman this dosha no is to take a piece of neutral bread fry the bread and then eat the bread because it soaks up the oil and the breads very neutral. So it's very easy to test whether you're whether it's gone bad I've never done on eBay or Craigslist, although I'm sure you can. If you live in a major city, you unfortunately have restaurants closing down all the time. And you can get it at auction pretty pretty cheap. I mean, I used to get all my stuff on auction back before I had kids and when my wife still let me bring me major pieces of kitchen equipment home before I lived in a tiny apartment but anywho Okay, and Gabe writes in while I have you here's a question for the next podcast. How about rotisserie Turkey? I know Thanksgiving is behind us but I was looking for an awesome roasting technique and thought rotisserie would be perfect if you would get the right setup. Does Dave know of any good spit setup? outdoor wood oven with a side heat source like a wood fired oven? And what are the physics of having that pulse of heat that you get from rotisserie? And is it so good on chicken because it's continually being phased out as it turns okay, I don't know of a good rotisserie motor normal. Normally, I built one once a long time ago to do a pig but all rotisserie motors that I've seen inexpensive ones anyway, are horrible. They suck. And the reason is, is the gearing isn't very good. So if you have a bad rotisserie, what happens is is that you almost never have the meat on a rotisserie perfectly centered. So the rotisserie slows down as it as it's lifting the heavier side of the of the meet over the top, then it's usually stops for a second falls as it goes through the heavier part until the gear catches again and then goes a little faster on the down so you basically don't have even heating all the way around. It's awful. I don't know why anyone's no one's invested in like a simple precision like worm gear drive that can't be over driven. That mean I used one once with a Bodeen which is an awesome little motor. And that thing that sucker was dead on like I couldn't I could have swung, you know, I could have swung a piece of meat entirely on one side and it would have spun evenly. Okay, so that said, I don't know the good setup. It's all about it's all about securing the meat and making sure that it doesn't flop around, and that the wingtips or whatever, don't fly off and get burned. And we got to be careful when you're tying it that your string doesn't catch on fire and I'm often the wings get burned. That said rotisserie is a fantastic technique, not because of the pulse of heat, but because you're applying a high average, a high, sorry, instantaneous heat on the one side, right, which is making a good skin or a good crust on whatever you're cooking, but a low average heat because you don't enclose it, you don't sweat, you don't want to close a rotisserie and enclosed rotisserie is basically an oven with a boiler on one side. Rotisserie is really very akin to low temperature cooking in that you're keeping the average heat input very low. So you're not in cooking the meat, the base, the self basting helps, I guess somewhat because it gets a little oil on the outside. But I don't know the actual science of the of the basting. And what that does, I probably should actually research it. But that said the trigger rotisserie is trying to get the heat input low enough that it doesn't overdo too much overcooking of the outside of the meat, but high enough such that it cooks in a reasonable amount of time. And so that's that's the trick, but I don't know of a good woodfire to be great. It's just a question of finding a good rotisserie motor. And I think that's one of the things we might build someday. Okay. Okay, what do you mean? He's not paying attention, okay. Yeah. Okay. Jason Molinari writes in about deep fried chicken, and also wasabi. Jason, I'm gonna apologize in advance. I don't know the answer to that wasabi question, but we will put it out to our readers. Keep up the good work with the podcast and dishdasha keep hammering. keep hammering couple of questions. I'm trying to figure out how I can load Tim Cook chicken prior to deep frying and maintain the same deliciousness. Hopefully you can get more deliciousness, essentially cook for insurance, as you call it. What that means is is you cooked the chicken beforehand low temp, and then you fry it. And then when you're frying, you don't have to worry about the crust. You don't have to worry about cooking the chicken all the way through. And that's really, really good technique when you want to cook chicken at the same time as French fries. And you don't want to have to separate oil temperatures. Okay. The problem is the crust doesn't come out. The same with low temp cooking versus regular straight frying I imagined because I've denature some of the proteins in the skin and broken down some of the connective tissue. Have you experimented with a pre cooked fried chicken? Any advice to get the best possible crust slash crunch on it? The main problem seems to be loss of adhesion between the crust and the chicken almost becoming a shell. Okay. Okay, I have the answer for you, though, I believe and tell me if I'm wrong, right and tell me if I'm wrong. But a lot of people have had this problem. The main problem with adhesion of crust on a chicken is because the skin is wet. And when you're cooking something in a in low temp, you tend to get a soggy kind of outside of the skin because inside of a bag, what you need to do is as soon as you remove the chicken from the circulator, you need to cut it open while it's still blazing hot. Put it on a rack and let the skin flash off and form a pellicle on the outside. Okay, this is why after you Brian a chicken before you fry it, you typically put it on a rack and let it dry. I mean, I know Carlos here doesn't do that Carlo, he doesn't. Carlo just sticks takes it straight from the Brian and puts it in but you don't know his recipe I haven't I haven't tested with it yet. But it goes against all all things I've ever known about fried chicken but it's delicious. So I have to look into it anyway. So you want to form a pellicle and that's going to increase the adhesion of dry thing then you're going to want to go I do a flour. Then I do my liquid dip which is a buttermilk, egg, baking powder, baking soda, salt, pepper, and then back into the flour. I'm just telling you that steps I use because if you're using a different kind of a braiding technique, perhaps it won't work the same way but it's all about drying the chicken off in the best way is remove it from the bag when hot, let it dry on a rack, then bread it then fry it and you should get the same kind of quality and second question why does wasabi taste so much stronger when paired with shellfish? Seems that when the same quantity of wasabi is put on EBI or a fish every you know being sweet shrimp

the EBI blows my sinuses up. I don't know, you had to experience certain Stasha that it's stronger on on a shelf and I know I haven't I don't know. In other words like so on. On the on the shrimp. He's getting more of a hit than he is on the fish. I don't know. I don't know. Well, someone's gonna have someone better write in or something like that. I did some preliminary searches on it. That's a tough one to search for in the scientific literature really is that's another one I tried to put a call into McGee but he's on a deadline so he he couldn't comment and then maybe next maybe next time maybe maybe for Christmas we can get McGee gonna get try to get McKeon McGee on our Christmas episode. Okay. Joe from Chicago writes in about tongue tacos and flaunt Hello, I recently tried to impress my girlfriend by making a pumpkin flaunt and a low temp water bath and completely failed sucks. My approach was fairly simple. I basically applied Douglas Baldwin's approach to cram Boulais to the flam clan custard mixture, Douglass's technique and Doug Doug Baldwin wrote a Sufi prime minutes on the web, and he wrote a book and he was working on some of the differential equations with Nathan Myhrvold for cooking times. Which, you know, our team of experimenters might be interested in on that, you know, that are working on that site. Buddy. Okay, Douglass's technique basically involves blending the various ingredients pouring into a bag and cooking for 15 minutes at 180 degrees Fahrenheit. He actually cooks. Yeah, I guess hunt a little higher, agitate the bad cooker for another 15 minutes and then distributed to a service vessel. I went with a pie pan that I applied caramel crust to the bottom. So he's doing a florist who's going to invert it. What I have left was a slightly more viscous mixture with some grain to it that did not improve at all after sitting because Douglas lets his stuff sit in a service vessel in like a ramekin for like four hours to eight hours to supposedly set up did not improve after sitting in the fridge. The result was delicious, but not even close to a salon texture. It sort of collapsed into a pile of porridge when I flipped it on the plate. Do you have any tips for making low temp Flon this technique is way more appealing to me than the traditional oven waterbath approach Okay, so Douglas Baldwin, what he does is he puts all the ingredients for he basically takes a crumb on glaze mixture by the way, and not like a standard like like a pot to cram more of ORA or custard mix for like a flaunt right, and then he blends it. And then he puts it into a bag, cooks it, and then agitates it in a Ziploc bag and then pours it in hopes it said this is never first of all. He cooks it for 30 minutes on how you can YouTube Douglas Baldwin, go look at his YouTube and go all the way through it. But he basically he cooks his his custard his what he calls the custard anywhere between 175 and 180 degrees, five degrees Fahrenheit, which is anywhere from a little under 80 degrees Celsius to about 85 degrees Celsius, and he cooks it for a half an hour. Now I've done many, many, many caramel glaze, which is very similar mixture in bags in the in the circulator over time, I think half hour is too long, the longer you cook it, it does start getting thicker. So we'll get thicker, but also the egg taste comes out a lot more. So it ends up tasting a lot more like cooked eggs, the longer you cook, we try to keep our time between about 15. And, and 20 minutes out, you know in a bag, and we always do 82 degrees Celsius, which is about 181 degrees Fahrenheit, I think 185 degrees Fahrenheit, which is 85 degrees Celsius is too high. I think it's it's too high. And I think that the the other number he gives 175, which is 80 degrees Celsius isn't going to set in the proper amount of time. So I would definitely do that. He also does his stuff in ziplocks. And a ziploc will work at those high temperatures, as he says, but they're very fragile those temperatures so you have to be careful. The other problem is is that if you do a side by side taste test of a Kremlin glaze made in a ziplock versus a Kremlin glaze made in a vacuum bag, that one of the vacuum bag tastes a lot better. And I think it's because the air that's trapped into the mixture when you're blending it, you're not getting any of that out and it adds a kind of ag soul free taste to it that you don't get if you do it in a full on vacuum bag, as one of the readers of his YouTube thing said perhaps that when you're taking the bag out to agitate it so it doesn't form any curds. Halfway through the cook, you could crack the bag a little bit and get rid of some of the excess air and maybe that'll fix some of the problem. You know, because Douglas says when it happens that it's mainly water vapor and there is it is mainly water vapor caused from the increase of heat, but there's also some residual air from when he put it in the blender. Okay, the other thing is, is that aside from the fact that I would do the crema glaze in a vacuum bag and not in a ziploc if you can help it a crumb relay, to me is not done with a stirred kind of custard that way it's done with a set cluster. So I typically use a pot the crem recipe, which is cooked in a in a C Vapp oven, so it's not agitated at all. In fact, it's completely stationary. And the same holds true for a flaunt of flying, unlike a crab relay which can be eaten out of the out of the pot, right. And I do mine, like I said in the sea Vapp I'll pour the mixture the custard mixture into a ramekin, put it in a CPAP oven, which is basically a steam low temperature steam oven, and I'll cook it at the same temperature that it wouldn't a water bath but without stirring and it sets up into a nice crimper lay, I believe it's great for a flood, you need to add more texture because you have to unmolded so first of all, you can't follow his recipe and use egg yolks you have to use whole eggs so that you get that extra protein in there to have it set so you can up end it. Now I've never done this. So I have no idea where this would work. But you might be able to take a ramekin, put or your pipe pie pan won't work because it's going to explode in the vacuum. But you could probably put it in a ramekin because you do it in a ziplock too, and then put a lid on it and then Ziploc it shut under water and then wait it down so that you're in a water bath, but still in a ramekin. The whole trick is to heat it at an accurate temperature without stirring it but you're gonna have to go longer. If it's not stirred and you're not getting convection with the bad weather moving around, you're gonna have to cook it a lot longer. So we typically do around you know, 8080 to 80 between like he does between 181 and 185 and then steam oven for about 45 minutes in a row. and McCain and you should get a good result and then you should be able to turn it off. So, to answer that question, okay, second question, I made tacos de lengua. That's Tong for the same meal. Thankfully, my girlfriend is as adventurous as I am and followed Kenji also approach. Kenji su leaves his tacos tongue for tacos. He suggests 24 to 48 hours at 170 Fahrenheit, which is 76.6 Celsius. So I split the difference and cook my tongue for 36 hours. The results were entirely too mushy for me, but my girlfriend claimed to enjoy it a lot. What are your suggestions if I'm aiming for a texture that has more bite to it, I was thinking about trying 24 hours at 170. Thanks, Joe, for Chicago. Even that is too long. For me. Look, we are cooking up at 76.6 degrees, you're basically doing standard braise temperature. So the advantage you're getting from the bag is only a having to use less liquid. So you can have a more intense Tang foot tastes. And also probably a slightly higher yield. But and you know, you don't have to make as much to as you would in a traditional brace, you can do a small amount of bags, so that's all great. But at those temperatures, I wouldn't think you'd have to cook it longer than sofa if a traditional brace was going to be like four hours, five hours, I would do only do it a couple hours more like 6789 You know what I mean? Like not, not that long, that when you cook something for a long time, it tends to break all the texture down and it can get kind of mushy, as you say, and some people like it that way. I don't I like a little more texture to it. So I would try a radically shorter amount of time, like 12 or 10. And see see how that is and if it's not great, then you can I would put like a tester in a bag and then have your main bag and then pull one after 10 hours. See whether you like it and if you like it go with that. It's already too much. You have to go less but I think you'll probably be okay with like eight to 10 hours at those temperatures. But give me a shot. See what you think. Okay, on the Brian subject, I'm unfortunately going to push that Brian subject off until next week, again, because I'm gonna try to get a hold of McGee because I also want to have the argument with McGee on the air about whether brining a turkey causes you to have too much assault in the pan drippings and therefore not being able to use the gravy. And I was thinking about it in the shower this morning. While I was washing my hair because I wash my hair every day, which apparently women and men who care about their parents do not Is that true?

Jack? I washed my hair every day. See? That's what I'm saying. I think are you not supposed

to? That's what I was? Apparently not. I was told that like, I guess we're like, regular dudes who wash our hair every day. Because like we grew up washing our hair every day. You do exactly like you go in the shower. And the shampoo is there. You use it on your hair. Yes. To make your hair clean. Yes. Yeah. Well, women don't do that. Were you aware of that? Jack? No. Yeah, women don't do that. Well, Jack. Yeah. Anyway, Tasha gets to bust out something every day, right? Yeah. Well, don't you ask your ex when you had girlfriends? I don't know that about shampooing. Anyway. Anyway, it's an interesting fact for those of you that don't already know this, but they're like in New York, because New York is where New Yorkers there's a whole subset of men who also apparently care that they're that their hair has a nice shine to it. Supposedly, I guess a non greased shine although I don't know how that works. So they do not wash their hair every day. I don't really get into that. Oh, I was washing my hair. I was thinking about it. And I think what happens is is McGee is expecting you to use a broth for your to reinforce the drippings to make your gravy or to do something. I always make a stock and use the stock as the basis of the gravy and reinforce it with the pan drippings. The stock doesn't have any salt in it and so therefore I'm not getting access to much salt in my gravy, if that makes sense. Anyway, I want to have this argument with him on the air and so we'll push off the the what's it called? Until Until then. Okay. Can also Kingborough wrote in and he says I want to remind you about cooking issue I raised a few months ago regarding the lack of research on oxalate content of food oxalis and kidney stones is the problem I most recently face for Thanksgiving. Because potatoes have a lot of its sweet potatoes or worse cook carrots and cook celery are poisonous to people with this problem. Although raw celery seems to be okay for no apparent reason. Cranberry Sauce is okay but almonds are disastrous and the list goes on and on. And I more or less made two different meals one that was low inox oxalates and one that was normal. As I said previously, oxalis seems to be a rare disease. But there are plenty of people who have had kidney stones, ie my mom are candidates for them. And the docs often say doctors often suggest a low oxalate diet. I'm telling you if you want to follow a low oxalate diet, good luck. The research and guidance are almost non existent. Much of what is out there on the internet is from unreliable pseudo holistic or nutraceuticals sorts of people. What charts I have found from hospitals, foundations and other sites that appear to be reputable are inconsistent, and we'd love to know more and how to accumulate reliable information. So I did a search again and I went to the oxytocin and hyperoxaluria foundation UHF and looked at their list of foods and sure enough, can is a weird list of foods. And I think the problem is, is there's not intensive research first of all, Like the oxalate content of a food is dependent on plant foods is radically dependent upon kind of where it's grown, how it's grown, the conditions, it's grown. And so say with carrots, the calcium content, therefore the oxygen, all that concentration of the inside of a carrot is widely varied depending on where it comes from, and how it's grown, the age of maturity, variety, etc. And so, because people haven't been doing the research, no one has done the research to try and figure out how to grow something with a predictable amount of oxygen in at least I haven't found anything so far. And so when it becomes a big enough deal, perhaps people will try to figure out a way maybe not to reduce it and everything but at least to make it consistent so that you're going to know ahead of time what you're going to go on, for instance, a random one you might not think of you think of oxalic acid when you think of rhubarb so you naturally stay away from it. But almonds, which have a very high oxalate content, you wouldn't think about it so it's very, very weird. Secondly, he writes in to keep Dave abreast of some buzz in the consumer coffee circles. There is a new Breville 900 XL espresso maker that just became available in the US the buzz is it because Breville is a major appliance maker. And by the way, Breville is pushing freaking hard. They, they there, they gave a bunch of stuff to the French Culinary Institute. They were at South Beach Food and Wine Festival last year and a Stosh remember that they they were working with Christina Tosi from milk bar. They're pushing hard with all of their appliances. I