Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

broadcasting live from Roberta's in Bushwick, Brooklyn, you're listening to heritage Radio network.com.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. I'm Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live every tuesday on the heritage radio network in the back of Roberta's pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn from approximately 12 to 1245. Here Today's youth Oh, I'm sure get the number first. Yeah. All right. Colin, all of your questions to send 184972128 That's 718-497-2128 We'll take any kind of question anything you got whatever you got. We'll take it anyway. Here in the studio. joined as usual, with Natasha the hammer Lopez who join me for my second my Sunday Thanksgiving right. Where we cooked Patrick's heritage. Wow, hello day that for those of you that don't speak that means bobble turkey. Right. So we cooked up a heritage Turkey eggs. Delicious, right. What's the name of the farmer again, Reese? Sorry, I'm sorry, uh, Frank Reese. Frank Reese. Yeah. So it was a it was a delicious turkey. I think I didn't cook the the dark meat long enough. So here's what I did, folks. So I have to admit I was going up to Mr. Kinetic or my in laws live. And they'd already bought a turkey by the time I told him I had a turkey so I was like, You know what? crap on it. I'm gonna let them cook the turkey do whatever they want. It was good. By the way. They didn't hardly ever cook and they brined it thankfully. Which even though I love my man here, I'm you know, I love my man here on the ghee. He says not to brine the turkey because it makes the drippings too salty. I disagree. And disagree, because I'd rather not have my breast meat be horribly mangled and overcooked. Yes. Anyway. Babu. You know what also, like traditional oven roasting, it doesn't make a delicious crispy skin, which is hard to emulate using other techniques. I mean, my exoskeleton technique was able to get a crispy skin but you know, I'm kind of a stickler for such things, but traditional Avenue and skin is delicious. Yeah, yeah. It's loves best

this morning on the subway on 44th Street. There was a funeral for police officer

when I was this, that they were playing what? bagpipes? Oh, Lauren. So this fall in police officer has nothing at all to do with crispy turkey skin has more to do with the bagpipes that we're talking about the end of last week's program which, by the way, I never said we're not played at funerals. Miss Das has opinions that are exclusively played at funerals. Because the next time she saw them play was at a funeral it reinforces in her completely illogical mind. That means that they're only played if funerals, go to Scotland. I count discordances Stasha one David was a wizard. Anyone else people do the day to day go to a funeral? They pee. Does that mean they only pee for funerals? Listen, you guys got to learn your logic. This is stuff I'm trained in David

go to some weddings in the city, find it find the backpacks.

Look, police officers and firefighters when they when they are are killed or passed away and they have a function. Yes, they have bagpipes at those funerals and because you're completely uncultured and don't understand the ways of Scotland, right. You see what that's the only time that it happens. So I'm saying okay, look, don't get me start you know, I took bagpipe lessons. Like You I like how she like messes around with that, but I took bagpipe lessons. I own a set of bagpipes I no longer you know, I didn't really progressed because, like you start with a thing called a chanter. And you learn to play on the chanter, which is, you know, soft and reasonable. And then you move up to your first set of real pipes. And when I moved up to my first set of real pipes, they weren't a very good set of pipes. You know, they were a cheap set of pipes. So they didn't sound they wouldn't have sounded good. Even if I was good, which I wasn't. As soon as I start squeezing on the bag, and those drones start wailing out Jen's like, Nope, you're done. Gents, my wife anyway. Hope she hasn't. Sugar man move tell her story. She always she always gets mad at me because she thinks I tell stories that make her seem like an ogre. But really, it's just I'm unreasonable. And she's a reasonable person, really is how it works. Anyway. So don't talk crap about bagpipes warning you I will go off anyway. You're looking when he when he wants to call in and talk crap about the bagpipes. Go ahead. We'll see where that let's see where that gets him. Anyway. Where was I delicious turkey skin. So anyway, so when I got back on Sunday, and I was having the second Thanksgiving, I had two problems. Once we had a bunch of vegetarians overseas, we had to make a vegetarian stuffing. And of course, they in my mom's style stuffing that the prime component is sage sausage. So we had to substitute that that was a passable substitution. Right. I had to admit it was a passable substitution. The star she ate it and she's not she's not even folks making her vegan first course it wasn't vegan. It was full of eggs and all sorts of other great stuff butter. Anyway, I thought it was pretty good but I didn't cook the turkey in thanksgiving fashion meaning I didn't feel a need to cook at home so I broke it into dark meat light meat cooked them at two different temperatures in a ziploc bag and butter pulled them out when they were still hot. Let the skin dry off so that could Christmas throw them in the oven to crisp off the skin after they cooled down my oven was acting up on me and when I'd had it set at 600 Fahrenheit, and it went down to 400 without me noticing because somehow one of the controls had gotten switched off so I was kind of irritated and then had to pull out a blowtorch to crisp it before I threw it back in for the final crispy I don't like blowtorch crisping because it tends not to dry out the skin and make it crackly the right way it just brightens it up a little bit which I find irritating and also at least torch taste. So I shot the torch through a Nikon wire screen to act as kind of a flame arrestor and also a stink arrestor from arresting the steak that comes out of propane when you shoot it on to turkey skin but it was pretty good I thought I could have taken the dark meat about a degree higher or something like that. I think I think I could have done it but a degree higher but the breast meat was delicious duck meat I mean the dark meat tasted good or just what you know whatever what do you eat on Thanksgiving proper Anastacia

over cook Turkey have some friend of a friend's house

Wow friend of a friend over cooked turkey. Is there anything worse than an over cooked turkey this is why people think that Turkey is bad because they eat only overcooked Turkey and Turkey. Everyone's like man, I should eat it because it's tradition. No no Turkey is delicious. If you don't overcook it Turkey is delicious, delicious. thing. Okay, today's show is sponsored by modernist pantry supplying innovative ingredients for the modern cook. Do you love to experiment with new cooking techniques and ingredients but hate to overspend for pounds and supplies when only a few grams are needed for application? Modernist pantry has a solution they offer a wide range of modern ingredients and packages that make sense for the home cook or enthusiast. So who's been through this it's not a home cook by the way. So you have to read this a bunch you start thinking about it when you're just reading it you're not thinking but then when you read it a bunch of times you're like home cook or enthusiast like they're at home but they're not enthusiastic and are using Anyway Anyway, whatever. And most only cost around five bucks saving you time, money and storage space. Whether you're looking for hydrocolloids pH buffers or even meat glue, you'll find it at modernist pantry. And if you need something that they don't carry, just ask Chris Anderson and his team will be happy to source it for you with inexpensive shipping to any country in the world. By the way we verify that as we said before, New Zealand I think read modernist pantry is your one stop shop for innovative cooking ingredients. Modernist pantry carries N Zorba tapioca maltodextrin which allows you to transform fat based products like olive oil or peanut butter into a powder or paste actually, I mean peanut butter is already a paste but you can turn olive oil into a paste. This powder retains the flavor of the original product and dissolves in place on your tongue delivering it to your tastebuds fans and cooking issues that place an order of $35 or more for next week's show, we'll get a free package of adsorbent to experiment with over the holidays, holidays, I guess Yeah, we got someone else. Simply use the promo code ci 64 and placing your order online at modernist pantry.com Visit modernist pantry.com today for all of your monitors, cooking needs tapioca. maltodextrin absorb it brand. Tapioca. maltodextrin is an interesting thing. So basically, there's like a whole years of cooks who just save and need some tapioca. maltodextrin and yeah, you know, taboo, like, what are you going to do with it? No, I'm gonna make the powder. I'm like, don't ask for tapioca. maltodextrin you need n zorb it from national starch, which is very specific tapioca. maltodextrin which detects tapioca. maltodextrin is you take tapioca starch and you break it down into smaller pieces. Eventually you get down to a place where the starch starch molecules are broken down to something called maltodextrins and zorb. It is derived from tapioca but is have very its main purpose in life is not this the turning oils into powders, but it's a bulking agent. It's extremely light. Like, you know, a pound of adsorbent is bigger than a you know, pillowcase. It's huge, right? really lightweight stuff. So it's a bulking agent. That's what it really does. And starches are interesting because they're a helix, right? And native starch molecule Ford's been cooked out as a helix. And the outside of the helix is water loving, and the inside of the heel. So it'll you know, water's fine with it. And the inside is oil loving, right? Water hating. And so what happens is, is you mix, absorb it with a fat are an oil, that oil gets complex inside the starch right inside the helix. But because it's not glomming on the outside, it retains a lot of its bulk density, and it turns out to be a powder, then as soon as you apply water in the form of your mouth. Or if you try to make a powder out of something with water in it, which doesn't work. Ding, ding, ding, ding, right? It immediately dissolves and turns back into almost nothing. So you take a very small amount of maltodextrin, which is relatively tasteless, and you make a powder out of an oil and then it dissolves in your mouth. That's how it works. But please don't try to make a powder out of an oil by just saying, tapioca, maltodextrin because odds are it won't work. There's many, many, many, many tapioca maltodextrins in the world, and most of them won't do that. Right? mustaches like, I really don't care. I don't care what she's saying. I really I just I just don't care. At least that's what I'm reading out of this guest. Now, because I'm stupid. I didn't have my I didn't have my thing open. So I'm going to have to flail around here for a minute while I search for oh, there it is. Wait, while I search for my questions for the day. And you know, I wouldn't have to search for my question for the day people if you were to call in some questions, right? Just saying, okay, that's awesome. Okay, so starting out. There's a caller. Oh, there's a caller. A caller, you're on the air.

Oh, great. Thank you. I have a quick question about getting kind of like a crust on a sushi veal rack. Okay. So I wanted to have like a verb cross or some kind of other process after it's finished cooking. How should I try to do that?

Okay, so here's a couple of things. Are you are you going to use actual cvwd in a vacuum bag? Are you going to use low temp like in a ziplock some of them?

I was in a severe packing bag, okay,

you, you're gonna have to do it like a test or see what you feel. If you actually put the herb crust on beforehand, you're gonna get quite a bit of the penetration of the herb flavor into the meat from the procedure itself. Right. So the question you're gonna have to ask yourself is, you know, do you want that much herb into the surface of the meat? And if you do fine, put it on beforehand if you don't don't Okay, the second thing is, how long are you going to cook it?

Um, in the bag? Yeah. Probably about three hours that like 5637

Are you gonna serve? It's near veal? Yeah. Yeah. For dyslexia. Are you going to serve at the same day? Yeah. Okay. So what I would do is, is, as soon as you pull the meat out of the circulator, right, I would cut the bag open and put the thing on a rack and start the outside to dry off a little bit. You know what I mean? And let let it let it dry off a little bit. And maybe even pat Tallaght padded maybe even take a hairdryer dry off the outside to get some of the like the tacky moisture off the outside then re brush with oil or whatever you got, right? And then you're me like I would deep fry it. That's me. Because nothing's like I'm telling you, I can't tell you. I have done bunches of racks of lamb goat whatever. And you throw that sucker in the deep fryer after it comes out of the bag if you've let it dry off properly, and it's it's good business because it just puts an instinct crushed all the way around. Everything, there's no kind of, there's no problems with it at all. Do you know what I mean? It's just, it's a good technique. So if you can deep fry it, deep fried.

I don't have a deep fryer, but I do have range, or I probably have induction burner that I could use for

how many portions? You make an ad? Ooh, yeah, you're gonna have a problem. Because the problem is, if you're doing ad portions, you're going to if you're doing ad portions, you're going to have an issue with the oil getting really crappy. If it's on a ranch, it's just going to keep going up and down and up and down. And up and down. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I mean, I could set up like two or three hotel pans.

Yeah, I mean, is it a good oven, like a really hot oven?

Probably, yeah, I can probably get pretty good boiler, boiler.

I mean, in that case, I might use a different thing from what I just said, I might leave them in the bag, let them cool down, pull them out, dry them really thoroughly, then maybe like hairdryer, them, put them on racks, like over the top of a roaster. And then just throw them into, like, let them basically cool down way down, you know what I mean? Throw them into a screaming oven. But I don't like I don't you know, the problem is if they're to down in a pan, or if they're like sitting in a boat with a bunch of potatoes, you get a bunch of blind spots around where they are. So you put it on a rack to keep it up so that the air can get all around them in a screaming hot oven. And then all you're doing is looking for a nice crust formation on it. And then you can pull it and you won't have radically overcook the inside. And some of your people might like it even more, because it's going to have more of a traditional texture on the outside, it's going to have more of that like overcooked zone. So you know, in general, I call that technique cvwd for insurance. And by that I mean, you've ensured that the center of the meat is cooked properly. And then you just focused on crust formation. And as soon as the thing is brown on the outside and crusty you pull it and the inside is going to be good.

Great. Should I prepare it before I put it in the bag?

I will I mean, I almost always do. I don't know. Because I think it's going to speed up cross formation afterwards. But, you know, I've run some tests. We run tests every time I teach a CV class. And typically the crust formation is marginally better in the one that's seared before and after. But I mean, don't assault it beforehand before you cook it. You know? Because that, you know, that's going to make a kind of cure and I think the searing beforehand. I like it, but it's a matter of personal personal taste. I I haven't done I know that it does speed the browning on the second sear, but I don't know by how much. Do you know what I mean?

Yep. Speaking of selfing I was thinking about maybe trying to phosphate Brian with it. Would that be a horrible idea or?

I mean, think is it's gonna, it'll hold more water that way, but you're going to go see VT so you're not going to overcook it, you have no reason to inject more water into it. Okay, and it's going to firm up the meat as well as it's going to firm it as well as increase water. So since you're going through the trouble of SUV eating it, I wouldn't. I wouldn't phosphate it up.

Okay, great. Well, that's really helpful. Hey, guys,

good luck, let us know. All right. Okay, Teddy, Teddy. Vico writes in and his, his blog spot dot blog is teen teen shift, Teddy. But he's been running for a couple years. I wonder whether he's still a teenager, and he has to change his is to change his blog then anyway. Hey, Dave, Anastasia, don't ask this to Ashley. She doesn't care about your problems, Teddy. Just me. Just kidding. No, you're not. What are you saying you don't care about his problems. So you're saying, Okay, I need help making sweet potato fries. No matter what I do. Blanche fry fry are just fry Fry, the fries get too much color before they get crispy. I know this happens because of sweet potatoes, high sugar and moisture content. But I cannot figure out how to get around this predicament. Maybe a soak in a simulated solution. First, then roast, then fry fry technique would work. What are your thoughts? Thanks for the help. Well, it's a true story. Teddy, it's sweet potato fries, they get too much color to them. Right. So there are a number of things that are done, we can make basically because of a thing called reducing reducing sugars in there that even more than the regular sugar which causes browning and reducing sugars and it caused Browning you know, which is a not sucrose but invert it. So there's been a couple of studies based on trying to get the sugar total sugar content of the at least of the surface of the potatoes down somewhat. And there's a study that was done where potatoes were soaked by themselves, you know, just in water versus in salt versus in in my brain, ascorbic acid, which is I think what you're thinking about to stop the brain Only from taking place enzymatic Browning from the well. Something just flew into my mouth. Ouch. Right versus citric acid versus acetic acid vinegar. Interestingly, the most sugar was leached out of the potatoes by soaking them in a dilute me. That book really did me wrong not flew right in my mouth by soaking in dilute vinegar. Right. So here's what I would do, then a second way to get the sugars out is by blanching. So I would soak these suckers, these potatoes is what I mean, in a vinegar solution after they've been cut for a week vinegar solution for a couple of hours I would throw salt into because consulted delicious. And it also helps with with color problems in french fries, but I don't know why or how, then I would pull them out of that. Then, as you know that you might not want to put this off because it might reduce the amount of sugars that are pulled out. Interesting question don't don't have to look at it, then I would blanch them in water. And that's going to leach out even more sugar. And then I would go through the two step frying process one at a lower temperature to do your cook through and to form the crust, pull it out, let it cool down bugs in my throat. And then after that I would do the final Friday Christmas. But you do have a tough road to hoe. I was looking this up actually. And there's an interesting problem where someone was making potato chips. And they did something completely counterintuitive. They were trying to minimize oil into the potato chip, which is a horrible idea because oil is delicious to the potato chip. necessary and delicious. But they check this out. They took the potato after they they had blanched it and dried it you know just dried it like an on an oven or dehydrator and they threw it into a sugar solution. sugar solution strong like 23% sugar by weight and two SEC for two seconds. And then immediately they let it drain for three seconds and immediately fried it. And they said that it was good. They said that it actually they said it absorb less oil, which I don't know why I'm interested in that. But the fact that it didn't brown appreciably or didn't scorch in the fryer when they're making potato chips is very interesting to me the other way, by the way, and I doubt you have access to this because very few people do to decrease the colors to decrease the frying temperature of the oil. But the only way to do that is to what

he's 15 Teddy was or is and he's a Taurus.

What does that mean? When is Taurus? April?

It's like me and your wife?

Well, my wife I think changed because they changed all the zodiac. I did not change I'm still Aries anyway, Aries. So. Okay, so as I was saying before I was interrupted by this astrological thing the teddy. All right, all right. So vacuum Frying is the other way to go. So you can reduce the temperature at which the which you can set the oil by reducing the pressure thereby allowing water to boil up because water boiling out of their product is what stops the oil from penetrating right. And things don't get crispy until the water is left right. So you can reduce the temperature which that happens by putting everything under a vacuum. Problem with that is it you need some hardcore equipment. And the other problem with it is, is that what typically what happens is is you fry the thing under a vacuum. You then let the air back in and whammo all the oil is injected into the poorest section of the fries, and so you get really greasy, soggy fries. So this happens with potato chips, or those nice big dill potato chips, but happens in french fries all the time. You're worried about French fries, which is why vacuum frying can be difficult other than the fact that it's very hard to do like the morons that do vacuum. Excuse me, I didn't mean that the What's the word for more on this friendly. nincompoop nincompoop. The nincompoops had made kind of the consumer level vacuum frying situation didn't put a coal trap in between the fryer and the vacuum pump. So there's no possible way on God's earth that it can actually work as a vacuum fire because it can't possibly we condense the liquid that spews off. So the only way around there is either use a cold trap, or use an aspirator pump that can reduce the pressure. Even when there's water vapor coming out of it all the time problem that aspirator pump is is that if you make a lot of water vapor like you would when you're frying, think of the steam that comes out of a fryer. You're you're gonna you're gonna it's gonna start sucking wind and it's gonna get up to atmospheric pretty quickly anyway. But here's, here's my question The Stache and this is to you since you're the only one that's here, even if you know only in body the why don't they do this? Why don't they towards the end of the frying time, ramp the temperature up and at the same time, release the vacuum slowly so that there's always has water boiling out of it until they reach atmospheric then they should be able to get most of the benefit of vacuum frying most of the frying will take place at a lower temperature. Right. But you know, at the end when they're pulling it out of the oil it's at atmospheric and so it's not going to get that injection What do you think? Yeah, sounds good right? But no one in the literature has tried something like that. I wonder whether there's a technical problem that makes it impossible. Anyway apparently Anastasia has just slapped her watch which means that we are going to our first commercial break call your question is 27184972128 said what a 4972128 cooking news I can think of younger day walls made good want to do good neighbor see. Can you stop the rain? Oh, Al Green. Welcome back to Cooking issues. So the reason we played that song from our greed is one of the questions I got Anonymous was Dave, what is a cure for a broken heart and I thought that the Reverend Al Green, although he provides actually no solutions if you actually listened to the song, he provides no solutions but

hasn't been taught. Maybe they didn't finish the sentence and it's like a broken leg.

He's like how well how can you mend a broken heart? And the related question, how can a loser ever win? Right? These are kind of related questions that are green.

Their question maybe they were asking how to put together a broken heart of an animal that they were?

Well, that's what I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to assume look, I'm not an expert in mending broken hearts. But I am an expert in cooking hearts. So I think I'll shift it to the related question of Dave. How do you cook? How do you cook hearts? Or why do you cook hearts? I mean week first of all, the heart is an extremely underappreciated. Culinary had

amazing heart at Maialino. Did you have it that day?

No.

What kind of what kind of pig heart the pig heart is good. With peppers and onions,

peppers and onions, peppers, peppers, sausage and Pepin hearts anyway. So it was good. So good. How

did you make it every single day? I don't know.

Who was it? Was it was it all moist? or was there some crunchy? Almost Yeah, so that's a you know, good way to cook our hearts are delicious. Because there and for all of you freaks who don't like fat. You're probably not listen to my show. But if you are, you know, very very lean and very kind of like it's got that really that kind of bloody taste but without being kind of so bloody the way that like sometimes I like blood sausage, but some people don't like it because of the extreme bloody, bloody flavor of it. You know, I'm talking about my you know, my personal favorite heart is chicken hearts. Love them chicken hearts. You know, they're so delicious. And yet like chicken hearted means like crappy. Like, why would you? Why would you mean they're so delicious? Chicken hearts. You like chicken hearts.

I don't know if I've had it.

Oh my god. It tastes like duck heart. That's the only heart I've had duck hearts. Delicious. Right. So good. Yeah, chicken heart is like slightly smaller than a duck cart. Which means that they're slightly smaller, you can eat more of them. I look. I love duck hearts by grew up eating chicken hearts. And my favorite way is to is to see you know, a giant skewer full of chicken hearts. God knows how to do that. You think if I can get a skewer of chicken hearts. That means there's that many fools out there not eating the hearts of their chicken that they're eating all of those breasts and legs and not eating the heart. Anyway, I just like it's simply like roasted and then you know with like some chimichurri sauce or something stuffs just so good chicken hearts anyway. You know we haven't done a lot of experiment with low temp hearts. I mean, I've done it a couple times at home but not enough to report hearts anyway can't mend them can cook them you know, but whoever's out there with them. looking hard time heals all wounds, but mainly because you die at the end. So, you know, in other words like that's what makes it tunnel logically true. tautological? Yeah, it's like it's like, it's always true. It can't it can't be any other because we all have a finite existence. So it's always over at some point. Oh, heavy, heavy subjects here

and Craig, can you just come in? And indeed, Jesus,

I'm not where the show is not the MDGs issue. We're talking about the waiter here who is still looking like Jesus came up and someone must have told him I know he's not a listener. Someone told him that we did it because he gave him the stash at the stink eye, but most people give them the stash of the stink guy because she throws off the I HATE YOU vibe. He gives most people this thing. Really? Really. It's not as to how the heck is he Jesus? Like if he throws a stink guy? Jesus doesn't throw a stink guy. He needs to work on it ruins the look. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. Follow up from Erin. Hi, Anastasia. And Dave. Calling last week. When I said I was still loving the show. It didn't mean to say I thought the show would turn to crap. I was just saying. You answered a question of mine before with Harold McGee. At that time, I was blown away that I was able to get expert advice so easily, mainly from McGee, I assume if you need expert advice. And so anyway, so the question that was asked last week, I think last week or week before was on plating. And by the way, thanks for nothing for all you people giving advices to it, you know, for plating, because we got zero responses on that, right, anyway, are the local libraries, local libraries is pretty well stocked with cookbooks. So you can get ideas there. And he liked the response regarding thinking about the visual aspects slightly earlier during the preparation of the food. I think the first time I think of the visual aspect is put food on the plate. So definitely should shift earlier, I will definitely look at learning specific techniques such as compelling. And ultimately, Aaron hopes, the standard way to get really good at planning is to turnout hundreds of plates of food under the guidance of a chef who has the expertise. Yeah, but it requires you work in a professional kitchen to do that, which is kind of a pain in the pain in the patootie right? I can say Petunia in this way. Yeah. Anyway. Thanks for the follow up there. Okay, here's one for you. How are you? Dave? Anastasia, my 11 year old daughter Sara Beth loves your podcast. I didn't realize we were family show it like that. Now we have to watch what we say. Well, I mean you you're the only one that's dropped curses on this station. You

talked about vaginal listen to yourself. Yeah,

listen yourself. First of all, I was talking about Lysol, which was an historical reference. And not anything to do with anything and you just pulled it out apropos of nothing. Jack, you know can go over the thing, but I believe mustache is the only one that's ever cursed on this program. I've cursed. Oh, I haven't. Which is strange, because he first really? Yes. Oh, you potty mouth people. My 11 year old granddaughter degrader. My 11 year old daughter Sarah bet loves your podcast. She wants to be a chef and go to culinary school someday. We listened to you all on the way to swim practice and back night swim practice. I wish I knew how to swim. No, no, I don't. Then the more I tried to swim. It's like, it's like, you'd think because I'm not exactly the leanest guy in the world. You think that I would float like, like easily, but the more I try and tread water, I somehow corkscrew myself into into the water. And actually, the more I try to tread the faster I sink. I mean, if you throw me overboard, you know, I can I won't die right away. But, you know, I wouldn't call myself a swimmer. Anyway. My wife makes fun of me about it constantly. Anyhow, Sarah Beth is doing her science fair. Now. You swallowed the bug? Thanks. Thanks for coffee with the sickness. She's doing your science fair project called Make mine medium rare heat conduction and steak. It's all about determining cooking time for B steaks to get to medium rare, medium and well done for various thicknesses of steaks. Now listen, you put numbers here which are the normal numbers for rareness ie medium rare as 145 degrees medium 155 and well done. 170 Let me just say right off the bat, these numbers are like crazy wrong, crazy high. For me. Medium rare. Is not 145 Wait, I can't do my kid do my math in my head anymore. It's crazy. 57 is 135. So for me medium rare is more like 135 Fahrenheit in that range. And all of the temperatures that people register are typically above it. I don't know why but if you serve me 145 degrees steak medium rare. I'd be like Nan that's a much medium, right? Okay. We're trying to find out what the relationship is between thickness of steaks and the cooking time to hit those temperatures all other things held constant. We will be using three bones cuts of meat one inch, 1.5 inches and two inches thick. The bibliography reference for the experiment is from Harold McGee's The Curious Cook pages 33 to 34 excellent book out of print. Unfortunately, I keep telling him to bring it back, give me a put on the web or some other kind of credit. So here's our question. We're true. I decided the best way to cook the steaks to keep the only variable and experiment the thickness of the steaks. There are two suggested ways to cook the meat boiling them in water or cooking them in a 300 degree oven, which will be the best method to use to control the temperature that the meat is cooked in to keep it exactly the same for all three cuts of meat. We don't have to eat equipment or anything we do have a gas range convection electric oven and pasta Boylan and a sixth grade science fair budget. Thank you for the great podcast. Okay, so sixth grade, so here's, here's, here's the issue, a couple of issues, let's go into it. One, the relationship between thickness and to really get the relationship between thickness and how long it's going to take to get to a particular temperature when you're cooking at a particular temperature involves doing some differential equations, which is, you know, hey, you know, when I was growing up, that was well beyond what they taught a sixth grader who knows what they teach a sixth grader nowadays, anyway, you need to know some differential equations for that, to actually calculate it. And then it's done, basically completed on a computer that just does the iterations of doesn't find solutions for it. But roughly, and the shape of the meat that you use radically changes the amount of time it takes to, for something to get up to temperature. So most things are modeled as either one of three things or something in between. And those three things are flat slab, which is like a steak, right? Or a cylinder, which is like when you make like a Roulin or a sphere, which you know, does a sphere right? Now, luckily for you, right? If Well, I should say Luckily for you, I don't know if you have an iPad, if you have an iPad or an iPod, right? There's someone that wrote a there's someone who wrote an application called su v dash now it's five bucks. All right, and I have you know, how much I love the listeners here. I spent my own five bucks, and I bought the application to look at it, right. And the statue, you know, getting $5 out of me is like squeezing water out of a rock you want. I mean, and even Moses had trouble with that, you know, Moses, right? Most the Moses, right? The first time God's like, strike the rock. And he's because the Israelites were thirsty, right? We should do this in like jersey, nine minutes. So he said, he strikes the rock. And then later on God, like like, you know, years and years, years, years later, the Israelites are thirsty. Again. They've been wandering around for 40 years, blah, blah, blah, God's like, hey, Moses, Go to the rock, talk to the rock, and water is going to come out of the rock. So Moses walks up. He's like, a last time I had to hit the freaking rock to get the water out. I had to hit it to get the water out. I'm gonna hit it again, hits the rock gods like, oh, oh, hitting the rock. I said, talk to the rock. And so, you know, Moses, like, hey, you know, I thought you know, I'm gonna talk to him, I do a punch, he hit it with the stick is gonna be better. It's like, hey, Moses, don't think I said talk to the rock. And that's the reason he didn't get to lead the Israelites into the promised land I messed up is that I like

how we covered Jesus and Moses on the show.

Opportunity all the New Testament will bring it that's from Dave Arnold's Jersey Bible. So the stupid, okay, so, but you can download for five bucks, you can download the CSV Dash. And what it does is it actually plots on a graph a you put the type of meat you're using. And the reason the type of meat that you use it important is because different fat levels, different meats have basically different specific heats how, like how hard it is to heat them up to a different temperature, and also probably different rates of thermal conduction through them based on fat and all these other things. So you want to you want to enter the meat, right, then you can enter the shape of it, which is, you know, usually like some form of a flat slab or a or a cylinder or a sphere. And, and then and the other cool thing is this program can customize all this stuff. So there's a there's a coefficient, that's basically a shape coefficient that changes the equations based on what the shape of the thing is. And a pure flat plane is, is the coefficient is zero for a pure cylinder, infinitely long cylinder coefficient one and for a sphere coefficients two. But in reality, right, these equations really only modeled for these kinds of pure things. But in reality, what they do is is they're like, Well, an egg, it's not quite as you know, it's not quite a sphere. It's more like you know, a silan sphere. And so they're like, instead of it being a to write, it's got a coefficient of 1.8. But the cool thing about this program is it allows you to dork with if you go to the expert level, you can dork around with the coefficients and you can see how changing that coefficient changes the rate at which things heat but not to spoil it for you or anything but the And if you double the size of flat slabs, we're talking about infinite flat slabs, big steak. If you double the thickness, the amount of time it takes to get it to temperature will be roughly four times greater. Every time you double it, it goes up by a factor of four, because it goes back to square,

I think they're asking how they should cook,

I'm gonna get to that I'm being thorough. Jeez. So here's the other. Here's the other bad news about it, though, is that in terms of the way the meat looks, and when I say that the way that the myoglobin, the proteins are gonna get denatured, which is what provides a lot of the color in the meat is the way it gets denatured is radically dependent on how long it takes to cook the product. So what I would run a couple of different tests, ovens aren't so good because the size of the piece of meat in it, not just the thickness, but the size on how much moisture is coming off is going to affect the temperature, how quick the surface can dry out, because you're in a dry of enemies, just the ovens kind of inaccurate boiling is unfortunately. So kind of hardcore, I mean, you can do it, I would recommend getting this application to dork around with the different the different factors to kind of look at them. But then I would I would go boiling water. You know, if you want to try some lower temp stuff, just as a test, you can do what I said before, which is you can run hot water out of your tap, which is you know, depends on your tap might be hot enough to cook a steak not, you're probably not going to be up to well done. But you can do the other thing you can do is get a cooler, and do some tests that way. But the only way to do a real scientific experiment where everything is kept constant is to have something in a rolling boil. And, you know, if you're gonna use boiling water, that is a rolling boil. And what that means is, is you're not going to want to put a big piece of meat in, because if you put a big piece of meat in, you're going to if you put a big piece of meat in, you're going to drop the temperature of the water locally to the meat, the other problem you're going to have is you're going to want to try to keep the meat so that even thickness all the way around, which is going to be difficult for you because it's just gonna be difficult because the meat is going to be moving around in the water. So it's gonna be extremely hard for you to do anything else like bolt it between two plates with no thumb screws, so you can get the thickness exactly the way you want. I mean, you could do that I've done it, it's dumb. I've done it, you know what I mean? But it is a pain in the butt. You're gonna want to try to keep the thickness as accurate as possible because it is going to make a big, a big difference. So we're there