Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

broadcasting live from Roberta's in Bushwick, Brooklyn, you're listening to heritage Radio network.com.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live every tuesday from 12 to 1245 out of the back of Roberta's pizzeria in Brooklyn, New York. Joined today as always with Natasha the hammer Lopez but also special and unknown guests. We didn't know he was going to be here. He was here for another radio show which is pre recorded, which is why it's okay that we're going to steal him. But Alex Talbott Alexander Tallaght from ideas and food the one and only is in the studio with us today. Hello. Hello sir. How are you doing? Well, doing well. So calling all of your questions and your chumps soccer if you don't call in and ask Alex your questions now. 27184972128 that's 718-497-2128 and Stosh. How's your Halloween by the way? Are you gonna ask people to text us? Texas talking? She's, by the way, folks, just so you know, Natasha is typing on her computer and having I'm doing work for Dave folks. Yes, but if during the radio show, anyway, that's how busy you

are. Are you going to tell people to tweet if they're listening? So that we can keep track of how many listeners we actually have?

That's not gonna help like I find this and I wouldn't even know how to tweets like I'm going to set up mustache is trying to figure out how many people this is an ongoing thing. We're trying to figure out whether anyone's actually listening to this thing or not. And you know, we know a couple of you are because you writing questions, thank you. But iTunes is making it impossible for us to or they can email me if they listen, if they listen. Okay, you're gonna be swamped with all three emails anyway. Today's show is sponsored again by the modernist pantry supplying innovative ingredients for the modern cook. Do you love to experiment with new cooking techniques and ingredients but hate to overspend for pounds of supplies and only a few grams are needed per application? Monitors pantry has a solution they offer a wide range of modern ingredients and packages it makes sense for the home cook or enthusiast and most only costs around five bucks, saving you time, money and storage space. Whether you're looking for hydrocolloid pH buffers or even meat glue, you'll find it at monitors pantry, and if you need something that they don't carry, just as Chris Anderson and his team and his team will be happy to source it for you with inexpensive shipping to any country in the world. By the way, we asked last week about this and someone from I believe New Zealand sent it and said it was like under 10 bucks it was like five or eight bucks or something to ship whatever it is they wanted to New Zealand so we're like got it in like seven days or something. So we're like all right, nice. Nice All right, so it's no it's no BS. It's no horse hockey. They will ship it anywhere in the world at a inexpensive cost. Anyway, modernist pantry is your one stop shop for innovative cooking ingredients. Modernist pantry now care Iota Kappa and lambda lambda Carageenan whatever you use lambda caregiving for you ever use that Alex chocolate milk? Yeah. I mean like do you find a need to stabilize a chocolate milk often for yourself?

Not really we actually Passover all the time. We just used a lot of chocolate. Yeah, that's it

No it's like from a cooks perspective, why would you want to use a lamp lambda carabiner just because you're cool. So folks Carageenan seaweed derivatives and the deal is, is that there's a bunch of different kinds. There's a, there's Iota, kappa, and lambda are the three main different kinds of Caribbeans. And they differ based on I believe it's disulfide bridges along the backbone how they work. Kappa karagin is the one that's closest to Aguilar and its behavior. It's very brittle, Iota is very, very stretchy and elastic and lambda is kind of non gelling, or we think of it as non gelling, but it's used as a as an end bonding agent in chocolate milk. No Carageenan mixes pure there because they're natural products. So you know, capital will have a bit of the other two and, and vice versa. But things are primarily they're sold as primarily Iota cap and lambda. I know many chips. Excuse me chefs who use Iota and Kappa, but I don't know any chefs that use lambda, at least not that they've told me anyway, fans of cooking issues that place an order of $35 or more before next week's show, we'll get a free package of iota. carrageenan simply use the promo code CI as in cooking issues. 60 When placing your order online at modernist pantry.com Visit modernist pantry.com today for all of your monitors cooking needs, I mean Iota, mainly puddings, right? I mean,

it is I mean, that's it's also one of the only hydrocolloid to the self healing.

Right, true. So there's basically when you break hydrocolloid, by sharing it, they never again comes back together sheer irreversible, when you break the gelatin, in Iota, they will actually the gel will heat up now, if you are, if you use Iota to do a hard like when I say a hard gel one, it doesn't kind of break easily like a pudding, it's kind of a weird texture

it is. What's that stuff that used to get on? Shoot, I used to buy it as a kid. It's like short rubber, but softer, but softer, but no, there's shoot, there was there was a there was a candy of sorts, they know what it's kind

of like is you know, those stretchy hands that you buy, and you slap them across the room, you like fling them across the room, and they stretch out and stick to the wall, and then snap back and hit you in the face. Yeah, it's kind of like that. But without the sticking and hitting you back in the face. thing. But But most people don't use Iota in levels that produce that kind of behavior, they're using it in kind of putting levels. And then you can you can put the putting into another container like a ramekin or something like that. And then, you know,

I mean, it benefits from that little bit of kappa to give it just a touch of structure. So, you know, when you cut your spilling through it, you can actually see it as opposed to just, you know, the blob, which it goes back on itself,

right. And the reason by the way that people use Caribbeans in milk based things is because there's a synergism between milk and karagin. And so if you would normally to get you have to use depending on the actual one you use, but it's something on the order of 1/5 of the amount of care again, and that you'd have to use to thicken a milk based system as you would want to fit in a water based system with the same Carageenan. So you can use very, very small amounts. industrially, this is good because it means that you're using less product which saves you money. From a cooking perspective, the less of a thickening agent you have to use, the less chance you have, the less opportunity there is for that ingredient to alter mar or master the flavor that you're dealing with.

Certainly, I mean, there's a couple other things when we talk about it a lot, but it's the you want you want to have the least amount of anything possible, be it salt or Carageenan or sugar so to get the desired results you can also have the calcium too because it's Iota is calcium reactant Where is kappa is potassium so you can if you don't have a lot of milk just add some calcium,

but no I don't I never know I never know depends on who gives you the the product but I know like certain of the Kappas are pre formulated with the potassium salts in it

a lot of THC gum stuff is is basically idiot proof right? It's

by the way, folks, this is why this is what I'm gonna like I love what Martin lash from Kemalists has done for the world by creating his hydrocolloid recipe index. And by the way, he's getting better about going back and going to your recipes are in there a lot of are. But the the one thing he did was remove a lot of the brand names and what I always tell people is that if you are going to specify a recipe, you should always specify the brand that you use because if you just say catholiccare again and first of all, there could be anything natural like this, like could come in a wide variety of chain links. For instance, there's wide variety of properties, but also could or could not have the setting salts added to them already. I mean, it's

right i mean if you look at last up cocoa stuff, they've got CP Kelco a different variation but jellen They've got J J which already has sodium citrate and which is a question which allows it to be easier for for gelling, but a whole other ballgame,

right? So always say the brand new us anyway, we have a caller caller you're on the air. Dave. Howdy,

this Mike I'm a commercial Brewer and I'm interested in possibly doing some molecular stuff with beer and I'm wondering what you think I'm thinking maybe like, you know, doing a black and tan but have one beer have? Maybe some, some alginate in it. So when the black you know, it'd be more like a lava lamp than a black, traditional black and tan or maybe making some low alginate balls with something sweet to go and maybe a sour beer. So they'd float around. What do you think about that?

You mean as a as a commercial thing?

Yeah, just as a way to serve beer, you know, in, you know, just a fun way work in the molecular kind of stuff into certain into beer. Do you think you could have one beer that had something in it that would, you know, do more like a lava lamp and a glass or

the way lava lamps work? The way lava lamps work is basically it's an oil and water phenomenon, right? So you're taking, you're taking two immiscible like liquids, basically, once a solid to wax, really. And you're heating it, and when it heats, it floats up and then cools and goes down. That's why it looks that it looks so awesome. I mean, the real question with a beer is how would you get the how would you get the two beers to be to not mix unless you had an envelope around? So So then that comes to your second question is could you do something with alginate? And then problem with alginate? There's a couple problems I have with alginate. One. I don't think it tastes good.

It doesn't taste good. It makes things taste less than the original. Yes, you might as well not use it, it's a flavor thief, it that I'm going to steal that freight and I'm going to write it down. And it's now stone, stone.

The other problem from a commercial standpoint, and people have made obviously people make balls of things. The famous the famous ball commercial ball drink is Orbitz, right. Orbitz was gelatin based. Now the problem with Orbitz was the beads were solid, they weren't liquid, it's very hard to do a liquid based thing in a commercial way that's going to last a long time. By the way, we're in a construction zone, if you hear that hammering in the

bed is actually Dave building a new roadmap. Yeah, exactly.

So so so but you're gonna have problems with color stability in these situations. So most jail systems are somewhat porous. And so over a fairly short period of time, you're going to get color bleaching out now the the guys who do this professionally with Orbitz took care of this by having the basically the relative levels of the things are going to change the osmotic balance of the liquid very, very, very close to identical so that they got very little color bleed over time. But you're going to have huge problem in a black and tan kind of a situation keeping the 10 and the black portions to get URL, it's really kind of like brown and light brown, not really black and tan and brown kind of coffee. Yeah. So you could mean like, you could, it's obvious you could do, here's something you could Another problem is is if the center liquid is carbonated, right, you're gonna have problems with air pockets developing on the inside of your membrane shot, which I've done it with carbonated liquids and you definitely get an air pocket some people are not an air pocket carbon dioxide. And some people use this like on purpose they do this on purpose but it but it's a problem from a from a commercial standpoint. So you'd have to probably move to a steel based inner liquid and then I would do the reverse I would do a reverse verification and you can do something nice or you can do pectin which is like pretty nice texture, you would basically form your liquid and freeze it in a larger format so you get a more lava lamp anything and then you'd set it he set like an envelope of pectin around it you can use alginate as a first test because Chilean actually is our go to for that for all encapsulation you have to use the ionized water and like go crazy Don't you see question is what you see sequester the hell out of it.

Yeah, so we actually talked about it in our book it's a good plug for our book ideas and food they go by it but we use roughly point 5% low so Jalen and we use point zero 5% Sodium hexametaphosphate in in a water bath boom done. And then how's your water your area though it's fine but we've gone to Plano Texas and done it and when we did it without adding the little sodium hexametaphosphate we had a disaster right because they're they've got crazy calcium water but with the silicone in there and then we just drop everything into it and he get a beautiful skin and once you get good with it, you can actually lower the amount of gelatin in there to point 3% And really get a very silky, silky sexy skin

point five of jellen Loisel Javelin is equivalent to about point a point 9% Aguilar,

yes but with it and also with It's a question in there, it actually tenderizes softens a little bit it softens it. So it's the a really unique gel as an exterior skin.

So what I would do is if you have a vacuum machine, I would take your black, you whatever you're going to use is like your stout situation there, and I would de carbonate it in a vacuum machine, then I would then I would add some calcium to x. I don't know what the calcium level in beer is. Use glucan eight, not not, not chloride fluoride because it's horrible. And then do what Alex suggests which is get low Aysel gelatin, make a solution of that with the sequester in sodium hexametaphosphate phosphate, aka shimp which you can get probably the monitors pantry although I haven't used them to use them ever monitors pantry. I haven't.

I think via Twitter, we've been referenced to them. And they were here in Brooklyn, right? I have no idea where they are. I think so. If not, I'm promoting the wrong people.

Anyway, but do that and then you might get an interesting effect lava lamp like with the carbonation. If you use a higher carbonated liquid, like instead of what you would normally use like an IPA or something like that. And it might float the ball up to the top.

And if you use that, kappa no Iota Carageenan really low, low mountain for your encapsulation of the product. It'll actually give you that lava like texture.

No, go check out the books. I'm sure there's in the book ideas in the book. Check it out. Alright. Thanks for calling. We have another caller caller, you're on the air.

Hi, this question is for Dave and Alex. Obviously, I was wondering what do you what do you think is the best way to cook like a bland?

Cook? Well, I couldn't hear you.

What is the best way to cook a leg of lamb? According to you guys,

what kind of equipment do you have?

I'm very basic, I'm not extremely experienced.

Alright, then the best, then clearly, the best way if you don't have the equipment to do it properly is to burn it out. Roll it flat, remove certain parts of the muscles that aren't going to cook properly. And then quickly grill it with new say, a grill,

give it a give it a yogurt marinade to just to get the flavor really tenderize it tenderize it and give it a quick roll, just break it into pieces. And you can try and seem it out. But it sounds like that might be a bit of a stretch. So just cut it into smaller pieces or make their

butcher to steam it out for you like in other words, like you definitely want that thing to get flat. Legal lamb, if you cook it whole is going to be tough and overcooked, if any kind of traditional cooking technique. I've never had one that was really done properly. And there are people who like raw blue lamb in the middle, but they're not that many because the texture nuts isn't necessarily good, right?

I'm not a blue lamb guy I actually like it medium rare, even even medium it's kind of silicones out a little bit more.

Right so but I would definitely get it as flat as possible. And and and as Alex said, break it into into pieces and then cook it that way. Unless Do you have a need to serve at home or you have some sort of like primal cuts dinner that you're going to be doing?

No, no, I I've been served at home before and it was okay. I've had a lot of people who have grilled at home. But if that's not the best way to do it, and doesn't really bother me looking for slow

roasted. Yeah, maybe the whole grilling gives you some things that you're not gonna get any other way. For instance, we all enjoy certain overcooked pieces of meat that are crunchy and kind of burnt and delicious on the edges of things, right? It just it just renders, in my opinion like those hole cut things unless you're very good at it and you have a two part flame and you're cooking it over a high and then you move it to low or vice versa however you believe or slow roasting, it's very easy to get a large portion of the meat that's kind of dry and overcooked, especially the non fatty areas fatty areas can take a lot more abuse because fat is delicious when it's high cooked. The other problem with the with the leg, like is the leg is composed of a bunch of different muscles and they don't all operate, they don't all want to say operate cook the same way. And so this is my problem with you know, there's certain people who are very famous and whose product is good. I've had it who are big, big believers in what's called Whole Hog cookery when it comes to cooking pigs. I am not a believer in this. I know it's like I've done certain tests to try and cook whole animals properly. But in general, unless you're willing to go through Herculean efforts to try and have all muscles Cook, when they're still attached to the animal. Different muscles want to be cooked differently. That's just the way it works. The whole hog Aren't they

all? It's all chopped up together at the end, isn't it? Yes. And that's how they cover up the

fact that the loin doesn't taste good.

So wait. So it's a whole hog but we're going to put it all together. So it's really blended hog.

It's real Yeah, it really is blended.

It's not whole hog.

It would be much better if they took it into pieces and cook each piece the way they want it to then chopped it up and put it back together again.

So whole hog is a farce. But not in a good not like a stuffing way not like in a stuffing way but more isn't like a false false pretense.

I just don't think it's I don't think it's a goal we should aspire to. I don't think it's you know, and I love Ed Mitchell, do you know what I mean? Like it but how can you not live in me? I love Ed Mitchell but I just don't necessarily see why I should aspire to attempt to create something that's good. By and it is good but I just don't see why I would attempt to create something that's good that way by doing something that's against what the meat wants to do, which is the loin wants to be cooked for not a long time. And the end they end the you know the, the cuts that have a lot of connective tissue want to be cooked for a longer time. And then mix them together if you want crisp up the skin, mix them together.

So basically quiche, cook each part separately and then bring it together. At the

end. I'm a huge believer in cooking each piece of meat the way it wants to be cooked.

Do you have a conversation with the meat first? Are you like a meat whisperer?

I do. I get up I put my ear next to it. And are we helping you all the way by with your lamb? Anyway, hopefully this helps with your lamb. Thank you. All right, caller you're on the air. They dropped they dropped we missed him. Maybe we maybe that's our job Natasha. This is like classic Natasha. This is like you're answering this person's question. So the next person dropped off there was no caller I was saying go to break. Oh go to break Cena Stasha your viciousness is incorrect isn't why we call her the hammer folks just because she is vicious anyway. Call them all your questions to 71849721287184972128

Sarah Are we ready and Welcome back to Cooking issues mustache. How's your Halloween? Fine. Well, where are you? 70s person you were supposed to be a cop Weren't you are a donut shop and then donut met Mark. Yeah, her boyfriend had to work that's too bad. So you were seven days woman but I thought you hated like, I wasn't sexy at all. In the Stasha Natasha if she was wearing this sexiest outfit in the world would put a pair of long johns with elephants on underneath it to desex this is this is her mo folks. Happy Halloween. Oh by the way, I brought you some Sour Patch Kids because if you ever want to stash it like you and you think she's going to hate you which odds are she will she needs you for that if I were a fish if we were fishing for me. Yeah but Sour Patch so I have some for her for tonight. What about what about you Alex? How was your Halloween?

It was good. My he was my daughter's first real big Halloween. Yeah, how old is she now? She's gonna be three in December. Nice

and what was she she was a cupcake princess? Of course really? Do you don't like cupcakes?

Do I can eat a cupcake? I really yeah, I'll throw I'll throw down the banner against cupcakes but long and short. If I can choke a cupcake down really quickly, because it's small. It's small, it's edible. If it's if it's done right, it's good. But more than that, cupcakes have a lot of tunneling. It will have a lot of tunneling the they're just mixed improperly

and so you they air tunnels and that's not my problem. My problem is the incorrect icing to volume ratio. First of all I like cake. I don't make a delicious

I sound like icing so you'd go along with Jackie Jackie likes cake or actually you wouldn't get along with her because you guys would fight over the cake and I could just eat all the ice yeah

see what I like is like a glaze icing. That's weak cupcakes. I know what the okay we can all agree on this. Anyone that makes a miniature cupcake should be wiped off the face of the earth agree okay except you know it's kind of like a miniature cupcake but are actually good but only if they're super fresh is Madeline's. But they're not iced. They're not iced their cake the cake but they're a size. That's bad. They're a surface to volume ratio. That's bad for a cakey thing.

Jordan steel quickly.

Yeah, they're awful when they're old.

I mean, they're awful. Like 30 seconds out of the oven.

Yeah. And my here's another question. Do I like black and white cookies only because I grew up eating them or is it? Are they actually delicious?

There's a few good ones out there. But there's a quest for Mackey has that same question because they're

basically a semi staled cake and cookie form with icing on top a glaze icing I might add. And you know I grew up because I grew up around New York, loving the hell out of them

and a better ratio and if you think about it, if you're taking the top off of a cupcake and inverting it and putting the glaze on the inside

of it, it's it's a good tasting icing, not a crap tasting icing. It's a glaze.

Well, depends where you go and what the most actual black and white glazes are. Well look if

you hand me a black and white cookie that looks like it's got icing on A tarp that was knifed on and not poured and let to set I will stab you in the eye with your icing knife right or no, you will. Yeah, I mean it's not a black and white at that point.

No, it's something frosted.

It's an abomination.

It's not iced. It's frosted. Right.

Okay, that's fair. All right. So we're gonna have to go to some of the oh, by the way, call your questions to send 1172128 That's 718-497-2128 Hey, I'm doing pretty well, because I'm getting over a thing, right? Yeah. Anyway, did you memorize that? I finally memorized. Wow, it's good, right? It's not on my it's not on my sheet. Like I normally used to have it. Okay. Three questions came in from Andrew one. How can we know umami exists? Do we have taste receptors committed to these umami specific amino acids? Yes. Yes. Yeah. The research was done in the early 2000s. Like 2000 2001 2002. We have taste receptors for umami. It's no longer a question. It's fat.

And also, it's also exciting to me. You can you can trigger those umami receptors on the on your palate.

Yeah. And they've looked at it, you know? Yeah. craps real real deal, homie. Okay, too. If you could design invent a machine without monetary constraint to aid in cookery or cocktail making to create a district method wildly amazing. What would it be a robot version of myself? No, I'm kidding. Now, what would you do Alex?

Shoot. I'm not sure.

I need a lot more people like me a lot more people that you don't have to tell what you want. It's not that I'm particularly good or bad. Anything is shake. It's the hardest part when you're cooking anything is is conveying your intentions, your intent, right? Not intention to your intent. The hardest. When you're talking to someone you're like, do it like I want it to get done. And then it doesn't get done what you like the way you want. It's like a really good chef, what they can really do is get is, besides cooking themselves is they can get other people to cook things the way they want them done. Right? So it's very, very hard to kind of tell someone what you want them to do. So you need a translator. You need we need to build a translator, yeah, something that I could just walk up to somebody and they would know what it is I wanted them to do or

just speak into a box and then it tells other people so that it just you don't have to do it. It just you speak and do it and say alright, I want X, Y or Z and everyone else finally understands it.

Yeah, you know, it's even rarer. And more awesome is when you say something and someone comes back with something better than your intent.

That happens more often. Not in my world.

But you haven't yet we'll keep that one on hold. We'll think about that for the rest of the show. Any machines that we want that we that are just cost. I mean, there are things I mean, obviously like I love there's I want a twin screw, twin screw extruder right. I don't own one because they're fantastically expensive, but it's a machine that already exists. Sure, you know, I want there's a bunch of things I would like a supercritical co2 extractor, they're just fabulously expensive. I would like a spray drying column as tall as you know, as a you know, a barn but

taller even. And it's a little maybe a little hard to store Yeah,

well that's the thing like no monetary constraint. But if design inventing machine I don't have any things that I want to invent that are I'm not doing as a result of monetary constraints, more time constraints and the fact that it's hard for me to and plus David Chang will shoot over here with needles and stick them in my eyes if I tell you what we're working on. That may happen. Yeah, it might happen anyway. Anyway. Three Can I FoodSaver adequately compressed watermelon for dishes like colors melon mango steak tartare, our food savers a wash or do they have good use? No, they cannot, in my opinion, and Alex might be different. His opinion might be different from mine. I do not believe a FoodSaver adequately has enough of a vacuum to do a good job at at crushing watermelon, the air sacs and watermelon What do you think?

Not in the least?

I mean, what we're doing and I think that's the I think the one of the big issues is is the term compression is is partially Miss misguiding right I mean we're we're not compressing per se but we're removing air right so if you don't remove the air ain't nothing gonna happen. You need a you need a good good vacuum. Now the cheapest way to get a good vacuum with because I'm assuming you're not going to go buy a couple $1,000 vacuum machine and although I want you to I don't think you will. I haven't because my wife would kill me if I did that. And you haven't built it yet. Well, okay not when we're the sealer but what I have done that you can do fairly cheaply is buy a refrigerator refrigeration vacuum online for like 100 bucks you can get a you know, an oil seal rotary vane vacuum pump that's used to evacuate compressors for refrigeration since they need to make a whole boatload of these and people don't like think they're fancy they don't cost very much you can get them for like 100 bucks where eBay yeah get like the good ones like Robin there's a good brand. There's a couple of good brands out there some costs more there's some cheaper ones that are knock offs, they can they can without breaking a sweat achieve below 10 millibar vacuum, which is not horrible at all. Yeah, great. I use one of my Rotovac for instance when I have a better one that can get down to like four millibar but so the so and they're pretty fast which is awesome. So then you basically you hook a hose like a rubber hose to and you get a piece of plexiglass at the at Your local like Home Depot style place with a rubber seal sticking on a round bein read don't stick it on a square one because you will crush it. And you have a vacuum compression system all in for like 150 150 bucks in that range. Works. Do it. Do they have a good use? FoodSaver? Sure. A good way to package food for low temperature cooking at home I prefer ziplocs they're relatively okay for things like coffee.

Yeah, I mean, we use the minimum before we knew any veteran before we could achieve more we we use the FoodSaver for years when we were out in Colorado. Messing with this stuff. We're out and up in Maine, we used to FoodSaver and it was that's what we could afford.

Yeah, I mean, look, it does a decent job of packaging things and FoodSaver if you buy the roll bags, I mean, like the one thing I always used it for was like very, very long striped bass because there's no there's no maximum length on a FoodSaver bag as long as it's less than a roll. Right and so you know, I would bag like you know, 3640 and stripers in the 10 inch wide bags. You jam them in to try to pull it out the fence would rip the bags but you put them in and you could bag whole fish that way you could do a school of fish actually. Yeah, so in row in a row and a row in a ring. Anyway, so they have a use.

I like them. I mean, they are you know what's my first vacuum patch packaging system?

They're also really good at receiving a bag of chips. Yeah, I

have not used it for that. Yeah, it's actually interesting. You can use this seal bar just for itself if you want to just start sealing things

Yeah, which you should I mean, I have a sealer now at home just a sealer because it's faster. Okay. Yeah. I use a sealer all the time to work potato chips. Okay. Oh, MPs congratulations on the book deal. Thank you very much. I didn't we didn't leak that by the way that was leaked by the publisher. The fact that I have a book deal one on cocktails and one on God knows what. Okay, another umami style question from Jason Dave. Traditionally, before combos used in stocks were told to wipe it with a wet cloth. Doing so removes a great deal of white powder found on the surface of the combo sheet, which I understand are glutamate crystals. Since combo is generally used for its high concentration glutamates. Why would I want to wipe the surface glutamate crystals off or glue glutamate crystals off before using it seems counterproductive? Magri I don't. I don't webcon But we haven't we have a color. I agree. I don't wipe it. I'll take the color. And we'll go back to a caller you're on the air. Hey, how you doing? Doing? All right. How you doing?

This is Amy in California. How do you? Not last week, the week before you pose the question about using the with the nitrates and the nitrates for Lean Six?

Four and yeah, you have experience in this?

No, I do, however, have a very noticeable sensitivity to nitrates. And if killing them that way would introduce that into the meat, it would mean that not only can I not have preserved meats, I wouldn't be able to have worked at all.

Well, let me see. It's, it's it has I hadn't thought of that. It's an interesting question. So Alex, I don't know, like so the Was there some research where there's some research where they basically in order to kill feral hogs in I believe it was Australia, New Zealand, I'd have to go back and look at it, they would put tablets of nitrates and nitrates around the pigs would eat it. They don't have the ability in general to reduce the stuff back. And so they basically they lose their ability to convert, you know their hemoglobin back into oxygenated hemoglobin, and they die. So, but they do it in a way that doesn't make them hyper excited. They don't you know, they don't go crazy. They don't they don't feel like they're being killed. They just pass out. Okay. Okay, so the question is, can this be used for a humane killing method? Right. So and then now the question is, well, there are people that I hadn't thought about this. So thanks so much for calling in there are people who are sensitive to this sensitive to nitrates and can't have it and cured meats. And the question is, is would it if it's used as an anesthetic? Would it also have an elevated level in the meet up? I don't know. It's very good question. It's an excellent question. You know, it's kind of like, the real question I'd have is what are the levels? You know what I mean? Seriously, like, what levels do you think you're sensitive to?

Um, I don't know, more than one slice of ham. Right? And for the week following, I have difficulty moving my fingers and toes. It's like I've rented arthritis.

Is it similar to like, what like, do you become like sciatic? Do you go like, does it like, do you have the like, do you go blue or no, like, I have no idea I haven't researched.

I get swelling in my extremities. So my hands and my feet get swollen, and my points hurt to move.

Right well Again, I don't know anything about this because I haven't researched it. But But

I haven't found anything about it. It's just experimental with me. I had weird symptoms. And one of the things that I found out when I took it out of my diet was that if I can't I can't have bacon for breakfast anymore. And it runs in my family. My mother had problems with it. My sister has problems with it. My brother is in denial.

The okay, it's interesting. I mean, I'm definitely gonna look into it just because that's the kind of thing I like to look into. But the thing is, there's a certain amount of small amount of baseline nitrates in and nitrates in things that we consume. That's why they can reduce like a billion pounds of celery down to a powder and use it to false cure bacon or its real cure falsely say they haven't added nitrates to it. So there's gonna be some small level that you're okay with. And it's exceeded in whatever you're eating in form of hands. So the real question is, is what is the increase in muscle muscle content of nitrate in a pig that's been slaughtered this way? I don't know what we'd have to check it out. Research. Yeah, research, research definitely needs to be done. Someone in the US needs to think it's an interesting problem who has a livestock research and wants to dive into this one and wants to dive into this one. But thanks for bringing that to my attention. We'll definitely look into it. Thanks for now.

Can I ask you one other favor? Sure. With Thanksgiving coming up? What veggies would you recommend for Lipton? Low temperatures disease.

Oh out here go on. I

was trying to think how many different things I could have. All set to finished, just pull out and go. You can have as I was, like, potatoes in there, pull them out, mash them, and they're good.

Yeah, well, you should pre mash that. You should cook it but I would cook a potato basically, traditionally mash it, put it in a bag and then reheat it, smoosh it flat and reheat it. Carrots are traditionally genius in a bag and good at Thanksgiving, sweet potatoes rustles.

I mean, everything is it Thanksgiving is overcooked anyway. So you mean, she's trying not to overcook it. But the point of good Thanksgiving sides are that they're overcooked. Oh, Jesus. I mean, come on. The brussel sprouts. They're I mean, they're the carmelize. The rose. I mean, they're they're tender. They're just it overcooked, and everything is controlled overcooked.

Are you a fan of the super overcooked broccoli to stand garden likes the hour and a half long cook broccoli,

I like tender broccoli, but I don't like brown broccoli.

All right. But anyway, I would do any of those. Any of those are good. Remember, if you're going to cook a vegetable in the bag, and you're not adding a lot of liquid to the bag as a flavoring. Or even if you're adding a liquid like oil instead of water, it takes a lot longer to cook something in the bag than it would in because there's not as much available water. So it's going to take more on the order of what it would take to roast that vegetable in terms of time.

And you also want I mean, if you cook it at, you know, lower than what 85 It's not cooking.

Yeah, I don't know. You can cook something at 70 for like four weeks and still going to be crunchy. It changes its taste.

Certainly. But it that texture is still just novel.

Yeah, yeah, definitely true. We used to do that demo. It's fun. People get freaked out.

Just leave it there all weak. Pull it out. All right.

So back to the combo here. I've never wiped the combo off.

I don't wipe the combo, which I mean, I'm looking for that. I mean, that's what that's what we're using

right now. It's somewhere in the back of my head, even though I reread my McGee and he said that it is actually that is what the crystals are on the surface. I have a little nagging thing in the back of my head that says that it's that current research says it's something else. But even so I just don't have the dang things off. All right. Second question how up from Andrew? How often should water in a low temperature from JSON matter? How often should water in a low temperature cooker circulator be changed? Well, that depends on how dirty it is. I mean, you're keeping it hopefully at a temperature where bacteria are continually being killed. But that said, I usually dump it out at the end of a service or at the end of the cook and then and then put in fresh,

you need to change the water. Okay, if you cook something in the bag, there is still aroma transfer.

That's true. And so unless you want to have you know, but what kind of back but honestly, like I used to test bags based on their aroma transfer characteristics, and some are bad, but some are pretty, some are pretty there are waters where you can have that's why people cook multiple things in the same water. Do we throw them in the same water? You think it's bad practice?