Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

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broadcasting live from Roberta's in Bushwick, Brooklyn, you're listening to heritage Radio network.com.

Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from 12 to 1245. broadcasting live from the backyard of Roberta's pizzeria inside of a cut up old container Ken joined as usual in studio today with Natasha the hammer Lopez How you doing? Check this out people call in all your questions to 718-497-2128 that same 184972128 the first episode of Cooking issues where I've memorized the telephone number I like that I was thinking about it on my crazy bike right over here. I managed even though I'm late you I managed to bike here from my house in 15 minutes flat. Which is why when I show up sometimes you hear me at the beginning of the show and I'm coughing up a lung it's because I'm an out of shape. 40 year old guy biking from Manhattan to Brooklyn in 15 minutes, right? No comment from the Anastasia. Today's Show episode 58 By the way, is brought to you again by the modernist pantry. 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Christina is in his team will be happy to source it for you with inexpensive shipping to any country in the world here that Colombia and Brazil with inexpensive shipping to any country in the world modernist pantry is your one stop shop for innovative cooking ingredients. Monitors pantry carries gelatin sheets and both silver and gold strength many professional chefs prefer sheet or leave gelatin over the powdered variety for its clarity, clean taste and ease of use although I like pattern for when I'm when I'm doing things like clarification because it's easier to measure out in smaller quantities. You know what I mean? Because powder is powder and leaf you have to cut up the leaf and any things although you know when I'm using whole leafs for like standard operations I usually use the leaf gelatin because I prefer it but But for ease of use and hydro recipes often use powdered and NOx brand. By the way, gelatin is fairly good quality. It's like equivalent I think to gold or even higher anyway. If your recipe calls for gelatin give sheet gelatin to try fans or cooking issues that place an order of $25 or more before next week's show, we're going to free package 160 Blum sheet gelatin. Simply use the promo code ci 58 That's cooking issues. 58 When placing your order online at modernist pantry.com Visit us visit modernist pantry.com today for all of your modernist cooking needs. How's that? Good. Okay, so remember, though, calling your questions because we would appreciate calling questions. We enjoy them too. 718-497-2128 That's 718-497-2128 All right now, anything interesting happened this week and station do we do anything? I felt like we did a lot to farm. Oh yeah. This weekend, we went to Cesare Casella, one of our good friends favorite show, favorite Italian and any kind of Chef, very good host invited him to a farm that he has a what do we call like a partnership with. So the farm specializes. It's part of this the Center for discovery and discovery School, which is this great place in Sullivan County that is basically a residence school slash place home really for people who are either severely autistic or multiple disabled, and basically need a constant amount of support. And one of the initiatives they have from a therapeutic standpoint is a farm where they generate grows his Kenyan cattle there which are, which are fantastic, but they also have sheep, goats, chickens, pigs, they're starting a dairy and they grow a lot of their own vegetables. And so the idea being that, and Treasury got involved as a place for his cameras, but also he's helping them ensure that the food that everyone there eats is a very, very high quality. The idea being that the better the quality food you eat, the better your life is. We certainly agree with that, right? Yeah. So every year he has a fundraiser with a bunch of chefs Mark Ladner from Del Posto. You know Kevin Garcia who else was there? More around Marco from Roberto is is there Marco? Jesus Christ Carlo. I call them that because someone they're calling him Marco. And it's not about Jesus Christ, Carlo. Right? The statue has given me the squeaky guy. All right. All right. Come on. Anyway. Who else who else was there? John? Oh, yeah, John Fraser was there. I feel like I'm missing a whole slew of people. I am anyway, doesn't matter. Anyway, it was a great event. raised a lot of money for a good cause. I made a cocktail. It was a Caraway Mint Julep, which I think we've mentioned on this on the air before the idea that spearmint and caraway day was days brothers, the chemical that makes them that makes them taste unique. The two chemicals are mirror images of each other. They're a Samaras. Anyway. carvone is the chemical so we call the drink 20 carvone. And we do it in a bunch of different varieties. This was a Julep. carvone We've done other kinds of carvone we I like them, you like them? Yeah, a lot of people are like, carry me me. Listen, if I if you come to an event that I'm working or anyone's working, if someone's making a cocktail, like first of all, nine times out of 10 the people who are running the event, don't give water to the cocktail guy. So don't walk up to the cocktail guy and ask the cocktail guy for water because odds are they don't have it right in session. Yes. They don't have it. They just don't have it. It go to the wine station usually has it, right. Or there's usually a water station or something. But usually the cocktail guy. They barely gave that guy ice. They didn't even give him bar towels. He's wiping his hands off on his pants, right? Pretty much. Yeah. Another thing, don't just ask for a pour the straight liquor unless you order the cocktail too. If you say Hey, can I have a pour the straight liquor? They really they don't like you anymore? They don't. Right? Yeah. So just get the cocktail. Look. It's a sunk cost, right? It's not like they're going to charge you extra for the cocktail at the event. Just get the dang cocktail. If you don't like it, put it down somewhere. And then say this is what you say. I enjoyed the cocktail. Can I just have a shot of this straight look, and then they won't dislike you? Right? Yeah, anyway, so and it's like anything when you choose a cocktail like Caraway that is a polarizing thing, which I should never do. I should only choose kind of slam dunk ingredients that people who like Caraway came back for like a bajillion of them right. We had a bunch of many multiple takers on that. Steve Buscemi seem to enjoy the cocktail show who's at the event. But then, you know, a bunch of people just won't even try it. So we'll heartache when you do polarizing ingredients. Anyway, a good time was had by all especially my kids who got some milk a cow. mustaches, you gotta move to hell. No, I was making a cocktail. You were not making the cocktail. You were picking mint. Making the cocktail you were picking mint. See, I demand accuracy from everyone I work with right? True. True accuracy. Anyway. This is interesting and this has never before happened. We have the identical questioning from two different listeners, one Jonny hunter and the other and have to scroll down because we're not in the same. Sam Kenton banaba Babett. Ben not they have had a bad night enough banana. Okay, I don't know whether they know each other. But I'll read them both the firt the second one from Sam is how would one go about making a bagel cocktail? Obviously, the major challenge is transferring the base wheat bagel flavor into alcohol form, after which one would season with sesame Poppy onion salt, or wherever their personal bagel bagel preferences might be. And then, on a very similar note from Johnny, I'm trying to make a bagel flavored cocktail and was wondering if you have some tips on how to achieve something of a bagel flavor in the cocktail. I was thinking of using a sesame bagel, toasting slices of it and infusing it into a malt base liquor and then adding in other flavors. Any ideas? You have to be great. That's so freaking random. You think those guys know each other? No? Really? Yeah, it's it's just like the like the week of the bagel cocktail or the like the it's like the bagel cocktail revolution. Well, I will say that I have never made a bagel cocktail before. We did do a burrito cocktail once remember that? Yeah, it was disgusting. Yeah, gross. incredibly bad. We took a I took a Chipotle brand. This was as a joke. By the way it wasn't intended to serve as a Chipotle brand. Believe as bean burrito.

blended it in a high speed blender with beer Chang beer actually. And then centrifuged had to get the solids out and then chilled, got rid of the fat and re carbonated it. And it tasted like a subway Italian BMT sandwich, I believe is what we decided to tasted like. It was awful. I didn't have it. You were busy off soaking summer soaking. Yeah, it was for a pilot we did for some stoner thing. Anyway, I think I might have mentioned on the show before but bagels I haven't done however, there is a lot of experience of experience in the bartending and in the food world with bread and cereal infused liquids. So Sam Mason, and you know was famous for his cornbread ice cream where he would soy corn bread and milk, I think and then and then use the milk for ice cream. Christina Tosi does a lot of cereal based ice creams. She soaks cereal in the milk, and then uses the milk to make ice cream, milk and cream. The closest and a cocktail world I remember is Evan Freeman. Had a well known pumpernickel pumpernickel raisin Scotch where what he would do is he would slice the pumpernickel raisin bread very thin Lee, then he would toast it and he would put it into Scotch into basically a mason jar. And then after several days he would decant it and I assumed squeeze out the bread to recover the excess. Otherwise, he'd be a wasteful wasteful bastard maybe maybe he was wasteful bastard I don't know. But that is exactly what I would do. So you could as per Sam's thing, just do a plain bagel, and then infusing the other spices. But I think you'd be just as good as choosing a bagel that you enjoyed. Like an everything bagel, let's say and then you know slice it. If you want a toasted flavor, I think it's going to transfer better with a toasted flavor toasted. Although then it'll taste like a toasted bagel not like rub bagel, you could do it with a regular raw, you know that raw, but you know what I mean? untoasted. Slice it thinly. And let it infuse, I would squeeze this stuff out, expect some loss because of the absorption of the liquid into the into the bagel, I would assume you'll get less loss. If you dehydrate at least dehydrated it before you before you infused it. I mean, maybe if you don't want to toast if you don't want those brown flavors out at least dehydrated to get some of that water out so that you get a better infusion of the stuff into it Quicker, quicker transfer the flavor to the alcohol. But that should definitely work. Now the question is what kind of animals? I wouldn't necessarily as I think it's Johnny's name, right. Do a malt based liquor, although you could and when we say malt I assume you mean something like Mark like scotch. But I think something like Scotch is going to be a little too strong. I'll go for a little lighter flavor to go with your bagel because I think it's you know, it's not going to want a very heavy, heavy flavor. I mean, me Look, I would first I mean, I know a lot of my listeners probably aren't vodka fans, but I would try it first and a high proof vodka, just to see what the kind of flavor transfer characteristics are and then move on. It's only going to be a couple of days it's going to take it's not going to take you a month to make this stuff and then switch over to you know a flavor that you maybe like better with a bagel like I don't think bagel and gin sounds good. You know? I mean if you're going to do bagel and vodka then you could go bloody bloody Mariusz on it a little bit. You know what I mean? Some of the flavors are like with a bagel like tomato and things like that. Or tomato water and a bagel vaca might be nice. I'm trying to think of what else I mean. The problem you know, I think the problem with a Scottish oak is just going to be too intense and I don't know that's going to mix it's going to blow the bagel out and he thinks does you know in any regular mod stuff is going to be like a regular malt malt liquor. Let's say a Colt 45 isn't going to have enough of a an alcohol Oh, I think to really get a good infusion on us. I think you're kind of stuck there. We're using a lighter flavored product maybe we I don't think you'd want to go into something like a Grampa I'm trying to think what do you think? Any other ideas liquors? It might taste good with a bagel? I think vodka might work. I mean, I hate to recommend it necessarily, but don't look just test it and Vika first. Yes, yes. Yeah, make sure you seal the mason jar. I don't think you're gonna need to heat it. The reason for Mason Jar is just it's got a wider neck on it. And so you know, you're not going to have to try and shove it in and then get it out. Wow, that's the first time that's ever happened to like very strange questions that have never come up before coming. I bet you those guys know each other please write in and tell me whether you guys know each other. And you're having some sort of bagel cocktail off and you just didn't want to tell the other one that you're writing and desk right? I mean, me seriously? Seriously? How's that possible? Okay, so starting with actually know what you want to go to our first commercial break and come back let's go to our first commercial break call and order your questions to send 184972128 That's 718-497-2128

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to get down to be paid look at me Look at me. No one see. See a bad month paid to cough be paid to cough be know what? Hello, and welcome back to good news. She was calling all your questions to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128 Going with Johnny hunters. Second question. Is it safe to make dry cured meats with beef if you don't have a heat step to kill E. Coli? At some point, I was wondering if there was another way to kill E. coli and still make good dry cured meats? Thanks, Johnny Hunter. Now, this is an excellent question. First of all, the question is, are you what kind of dry cured meat are you trying to make? Are you trying to make a like a sausage like a dry cured sausage product or a whole cut dry cured meat like a Persol or something like that. Now, the the problem is there's a number of bacteria that can grow in dry cured meats and the place to go for what the US government considers to be kind of the information on this is the National Center for Home Food Preservation. And they have a guide and literature review series. And one is smoking and curing literature review and critical preservation points. And they talk about all the different kind of nasty beasties that can grow in your meat like botulism, Listeria, staphylococcus, and E. coli, they go through all of them, but these are going to be the major ones that you have to deal with. Now, the issue with E. coli is it's kind of the newer varieties of E. coli like oh, 157, h seven that are that are very kind of that can be very virulent and difficult to it, they can cause very bad infections if you get them. So here's the issue. Dry carrying unheated meat products doesn't necessarily kill E. Coli. Even if there is a quite a bit of salt present and you have a significant dehydration, you will kill some of them. But it's not considered an ultimate kill step. The bad news is is that it doesn't take that many living bacteria to necessarily cause an infection. There was an outbreak of E. Coli in Washington State in 1994. That was linked to a dry fermented salami product that had been infected with E. Coli. And they didn't think in the at the end of the studies that it was caused, necessarily post cure. In other words, it was probably caused by meat that had been highly infected at the beginning of the cure process. And there was another study that was done. That meat that was very highly infected, did show basically, you know, a factor of I believe was either 100 or 1000 reduction in the quantity of E. coli present, but still not a total eradication over the course of time of the of the Um, of the dehydration, the fermentation so that the acidity and the salt and the dehydration aren't necessarily enough present enough to obliterate ecoli. And the same holds true for meat jerky that's especially meat jerky made out of ground meat like ground meat strips that you then dehydrate even though it's dehydrated quite a bit. Apparently, it's not enough of a kill step to necessarily show that you've eradicated E. coli Have you killed a bunch of E. coli most probably now on so those guys recommend a heat basically the US government on meat they recommend a 145 degree for I think like for 10 minutes or something like that kill step for their beef containing sauces so a lot of people to get around this I've removed beef beef from a lot of their mixes like pepperoni and what so it doesn't have to have that because strangely it unless it's got beef in it, they don't expect you to have E Coli in it. So they don't, they don't ask for a require that that said 145 degrees for four minutes is a pot or whatever it is eight minutes is preposterous ly high temperature to kill E. coli, I mean, ridiculously high, you should be able to kill it at much, much lower temperatures. But I think the reason they do is I don't know whether they do that step after they dehydrated before they do it after, then it's a lot harder necessarily there's not as much water so it's probably not as easy to get the killing temperatures to the to the bacteria. So that's the unfortunate, the unfortunate of it. But if you're doing a whole muscle cut, like upper salah, it's assumed that unless you've needled or Jakarta, the meat that the inside is relatively sterile. And so basically you just need to make sure that the stuff on the outside is killed in the extreme high salt that's on the outside of the whole muscle cut, like per salah, but as its curing, I think is probably going to wipe out anything as president. I've never I wasn't able to find any cases from a dry cured like a Salah of a poisoning. There have been ham issues where you've had that, but I think they're mostly off of brined ready to cook hams that they've had outbreaks of things like staph, E. coli, things, things of that nature. So those are things that I would, you know, worry about. You could also go to the FSA is a Food Safety Inspection Services processing procedures for dried meat on the web. And it has a lot of a lot of information on it. I'm going to get back because my study of that and of adding nitrates, nitrates and nitrates obviously are added to control bacteria like botulism, and to give kind of a cured color to meats and a cured flavor. But while I was researching this for this question, I came up with an interesting kind of slaughter and anesthesia idea. But before I get into that, I'm going to read an update we had from Andy in Chicago who asked us about Blue Fish remember he was going out and blue fishing. He actually texted this in during last week's show, but I didn't have time to get through it because I didn't see it because we were on the show. So he says Not sure if you'll get this in time for today's show. We didn't that's why we're doing it this week, we wanted to let you know how the blue fish testing right now for those of you that know that listen to a couple of weeks ago, whatever. And he was going to go out fishing for blues among other things. And I said please do. an EKG may test on blue fish, you could see me being specifically spinal cord destruction where you stick a needle down the spinal cord of the fish kill the spinal cord and therefore stop the messages, you know the electrical signals from going into the spinal cord to the muscles. This preserves the ATP in the muscles, which means it goes into rigor, a little bit later and a little bit softer than it would otherwise which preserves firmness and flesh. And since blue fish gets nasty and mushy, I would assume that it would be a prime candidate, strong swimmer. And usually it's a very strong swimmers that benefit a lot from spinal cord destruction. I thought it'd be great, but I've never been able to run a test and so Andy ran one for us. I'm just gonna read what he wrote. We got three blue fish on our first night of fishing, one of which you can see my friend holding in the attached pic. You can't see the attachment but I can we did not destroy the brain but cut through the spinal column and tail on all three spinal cord destruction. And on all of them, okay, sorry. It cuts through the spinal cord and the tail on all three fish, the spinal cord destroyed two of them and left all of them in an ice bath in the cooler to bleed out. Okay, so unfortunately, he did not get to listen to the show until after everything happened. So he didn't remove the gills and guts immediately. We did fillet them. However within about two to four hours of kitchen, it's interesting question of whether you should fillet a fish before after it goes through rigor. The this is not what he's writing. I'm just telling you this as an aside, if you fillet a fish before it goes into rigor, it tends to be more contracted and firmer because it never relaxes as much as if it's left on the muscles. When it's when it's going into rigor. The idea being that the bones and the structure of the fish hold the meat in place and don't allow it to contract as much so they end up being kind of larger Falaise that said it might make a firmer fillet with less gaping in the flesh after it comes out of rigor if it's if it's delayed before it goes into rigor, it's an interesting question. And I don't know whether it's going into rigor knows and I years ago ran a couple of tests but nothing conclusive, so I never posted on it, but it's very interesting and there is some research on it because people want to fillet fish as soon as they can after they catch them for economic reasons. Anyway. We did flay them within about two hours to catch them. The non spinal cord destruction fish we ate the first night very late cornmeal breading pan fried a bit of canola oil tasted a bit mushy but good overall, one of the spinal cord destruction fish we ate the second night after 24 hours of resting also pan fried like cornmeal breading definitely firmer, flakier and tastier. The last one we ate the third night cooked a little butter, salt and pepper without any coding. All three of us noticed a market improvement over the previous night's fish, meaty, firm, flaky and delicious. After 15 plus years of eating blue fish that was probably the tastiest piece of blue fish I've ever eaten.

We need to run some more control tests. I'd like very much to run this test again. But it'll probably be another 10 months or more before I'm back on the Gulf Coast. Nevertheless, I think this test can be considered a qualified success qualified only to the extent that was only three fish and they were not eaten side by side. The darker flesh near the skin was present. It was still present on all three fish. You know that's like the bloodline near the thing. The key I I don't mind a GI. I don't mind eating that part. But it looks a little funky. It is also pretty easy to cut out of the flavor for cooking. Do you have any thoughts on how to treat that? Thanks so much and look forward to hearing your thoughts Andy from Chicago. Well, I mean, look, the fact that you liked the blue fish the third day, I think is freaking awesome. Especially if you're an experienced blue, blue fish eater. You know, kind of the problems and tribulations of blue fish after it sits around. I think, you know, obviously there's nothing you can do about the Bloodline by the way except for cut it out and that's it there's nothing you can do with it. I mean the Japanese with big tuna they'll cut out the bloodline and they'll grill it separately over very high heat I don't particularly like that preparation because still has that kind of bloody metallic taste they like it you know they like a soy and stuff in the grill and everything they like it but you know whatever. It's also kind of small I like the taste when it's mixed in with the other parts of the fish now the fact that you like that I think this is a really a huge opportunity for further study for any Fisher people who listen to this I unfortunately don't have an opportunity to fish and my stepfather refuses to do EKG Mayer, spinal cord destruction on the fishery catches on Cape Cod, and he primarily gets a striper. Anyway, I don't know when the last time he got a blue was. But a blue fish I think is a fantastic fish. It's a fish that, you know, you know, I've always liked but it's recently becoming more popular. It's our fish. It's there in abundance if we can make this fish taste significantly better based on its post slaughter treatment by doing spinal cord destruction. This is a huge opportunity for us to improve the quality of the fish that I already think is delicious, but I favor fatty fish anyway. Do you like fatty fish and stuff? She does? She does. She's not talking to the mic. So you might not be able to hear but she says that she does. For those of you that you know can't hear the Whisper tones of dystocia leaning into the background and playing with a person anyway. But doing something very important. Yeah. What she can't say. Yeah. Great. Can't say super. All right. So Ryan Santos writes in Hey, Dave, what's up with snails? That's a good question. It's kind of like an open ended question like that. What's up with snails? I've had them both great and terrible. What's the best way to cook them? Is there a low temperature cooking solution and what temperatures are snails and then quote unquote cooked? And is this all pointless as I only have access to Ken snails? Thanks Well, yes, if you only have access to canned snails and all of this is pointless because those snails have been cooked at a very high temperature already. And you know, they're basically those nails are have been sterilized in water and salt and you know, probably a court bouillon mixture in a can at least 120 C for I don't know like 3040 minutes so they're they're cooked I mean, they are cooked but even if you don't have access to live snails I know in Europe they're available because I was looking at my at my the might be the worst translated book I own called intensive snail farming is from Italy from I went to a farm called let Chuck Isla, which is a slang word for snail in the north of Italy. The other ones lumada right? No, Maca is the real word. But electronic EULA is the name of the farm and it's you know mean snail in like a Etruscan or some crap anyway. So the by way, my son says I say crap, too much data, you say grab too much. It's true. I say grab too much. It's better than the rest of stuff I say. Anyway, so I have this book. And apparently in Europe, I've never seen it in the US. I'm sure it's available. You can get fresh pack frozen snails in like frozen block form the way that you would get shrimp. And I don't think those ones have been high temp process. So you could you could click with those occasionally and fish markets in New York, you will get created live snails and the way that they're prepared is they take snails and that they've been eating and traditionally if you catch snails, right that you haven't have been feeding yourself. You don't know what they've been eating, they could have been eating plants that are poisonous to you, but not poisonous to them. So the typical thing is you starve them out for three days, you put them in a cage with mesh so they don't get like done and they're all mired in their own muck. And you just let them stay in that cage for seven days. No water, nothing and they'll they'll basically, they'll cover themselves they'll go in to basically a hibernating mode, they'll they'll cover their wherever that thing is called the, what does it call the operculum is it whatever wherever the flap is, that covers the snail, they'll cover that up, it'll seal themselves and they'll go into hibernation, and then the last for a long time alive. So that's what they do, they prepare the snails like that and they ship them in a box, at which point they're ready to go you wash them off, you know with whatever vinegar or whatever if they have any stinkum Be careful with them because the shells are often quite fragile. Then you you boil them for like three minutes in salted water, whatever this is basically just to kill them. After you kill them. You pick off the trapdoor, take the snails out then you prepare them using any one of the normal techniques and the normal technique is to cut off the Blackfoot although I've heard that that's not necessary. You know the back wherever that like the guts are in the very back to the snail though. Like I said here that's not necessary. And then there's simmered in a court bouillon which is like a flavored Bujang for a long time until they're tenderize and then repacked in the shells with your butter with herbs, whatever. Like a lot of Italian preps, actually, instead of using personnel that use mint, that'd be kind of interesting, right minted snails anyway, and then north and they use peppermint apparently and these recipes from a trust but anyway, trusted recipes Anywho. Now, if you can obtain live snails, right? I think that's the way to go. I've done it, but I've only done it maybe four or five times. And I haven't done it in probably 10 years because I used to have a fish market that had live snails on a seasonal basis. And I would just buy them from them and make them and they were delicious. We tried to cook some snails that hadn't been purged out properly. When when I was in Italy a couple of years ago and it wasn't 100% success. So I mean if you can get ones that have been cleaned out, and we also tried to feed them, which didn't work who's supposed to fatten snails and the Romans used to fatten them on milk and they but you need to know what you're doing. I've had horrible luck. About 15 years ago, I tried to fatten snails on Rosemary because apparently paella you know they fed them herbs to snails, they'd feed them herbs, and then they would taste like the earth but I think that's horse hockey. And I talked to Stein garden he thinks it's BS too. Because these snails not only did they not eat the rosemary they died in my in my house in the in my apartment on 38th street and they stank up the entire apartment. I tried to take a few live snails that were left and cook them and my wife was like, Are you nuts? Are you freaking nuts Who the hell is going to eat those snails after they've been smelling up our bathroom for the last you know, week anyway, so I wouldn't recommend doing that. But they are fairly easy to cook. Now as far as Soviet or low temperature. I couldn't find any recipes on low temperature cooking of snails. That said the issue of snails when you cook them is after you do your kill step with them. You take them out and you're supposed to boil them either a couple times or rinse them in something acidic to get rid of the mucus snails produce a lot of mucus and you want to rinse the mucus off before you before you work with them. So if you were going to do low temp, I would try to do the kill step initially. Pull them out, rinse them off, you know with in water, salt and vinegar, like get the bread and then do a low temp prep. But I don't know what temperature you'd use like would you do similar to an octopus? And so killer for that does like five hours at 77 See, I do usually like it just a regular simmering water for like three hours in a bag. Or Keller has his cuttlefish recipe at 64 degrees Celsius for 10 hours, which he says is good, but I have no experience with the one I'd really like to try is whatever Nathan Myhrvold does for gooey duck which is if you're looking it up and you don't know what it is it's spelled Gio duck, and it's the porn stars clam. Looks like well, it's yeah, just look it up and you'll see what it looks like. It's crazy. It's like you know, and he made I think the best tasting, gooey duck that I've ever had at his modernist dinner that he did it, you know, at his lab, and he did it a very low temp and not that long, basically just warm through and a CPAP oven. But I don't have a copy of Modernist Cuisine so I couldn't look it up anyone that has it out there, man or write in or call in right now it's 77184972128 and tell us what their cooking technique is because I'd like to give that I think that would be useful. Anyway, let's go to our second commercial break and we'll come back with the last questions. There was a man down

two funkin here open the window letting some air put a little air freshener under the drums open up the window let out some I love some live James Brown Thank you Jack that your Jack

That's not mine Whose call is Oh my call yeah

nice any live James Brown is good you know we used to play was it was always James Brown for the center right for our middle track was always James Brown and so I started complaining exactly what the WHO THE HELL complains about James Brown it looks if you don't like James Brown there is something wrong with your funk motor. I think it's because they liked when Jack and I put on Phil Collins at one time that's right about that was it? Phil? Was it sudio it was a little bit of Genesis and a little bit of Phil I can't remember which Phil Phil style Genesis like, that's all like really bad Genesis and I'm not saying that's bad for all your Genesis lovers. By the way, you know who's a big Genesis lover, famous violinist. Let's not talk about that. No. Let me just say there's a guy who wants a three and a half million dollar violin who's only rock music that he likes his Genesis and when music other than class other than classical. He likes his Genesis. And I won't say that his last name is Belle because I can't say that. But when confronted by you know, I don't know who let's say someone whose name is Natasha. That really issue she literally said, really? Phil Collins that's all which is, you know, one of their later and you know, what are weak songs? He's Oh, no, no, no, no, early Genesis. Okay, getting in trouble. All right. So the other question from saying Kenton banaba. Ben, none of banana sorry, Sam that I can't get your name. Right. Someone calling if he's pronounced it to me three times in a row, I should be able to get it. And by the way, he's at the University of Wisconsin Madison MAD TOWN which everyone who's from there loves it more than they love anything. You know, I've never, I've never been close to that business to Oshkosh in the international agriculture and natural resources community and environmental sociology. That's a hugest name for department I've ever heard in my entire life. Anyway, he also asked about the bagel cocktail. And his other question, though, was what is the secret to a crispy pickle? We do lots of pickling with a variety of vegetables. However, once the product is can they become mushy, I'll be delicious. The most I've found is to salt. Use ice baths and even some recipes that claim grape or oak leaves will help keep the product crisp. Any thoughts? All right, okay. So the grape leaf thing is really about cucumbers. So in cucumbers, there is a there's there are enzymes and cucumbers. And there's a huge long list of them that I got off of a website. A lot of like, well, they're basically they're pectinase Enzymes like picking pectin. esterase and, like lots of really random ones I'm not gonna try to pronounce Okay, EXO poly GALACTA, Rooney's endo poly GALACTA renice, which, you know, endo xylanase, basically a bunch of aces, that enzymes that break down pectin and even cellulose, a breakdown like a Hemi cellulose and cellulose that destroy the structure over time, unless the enzymes are destroyed. So you can either destroy them, or you can inhibit them, or you can remove them. So in a cucumber, right, the grape leaves that are added apparently have something in them that can inhibit the activity of those enzymes. And I don't know what that something is. I didn't have time to figure it out. But I've seen it done that listed, not just in kind of like home nut job sites, but also in some university agricultural extension sites. So I'm assuming that there is some validity to that although, you know, I don't know specifically what the ingredient is. The other thing is, is that those enzymes are concentrated in the blossom and of the cucumber, which is why they say to cut off the 16th inch a 16th inch or so slice at the blossom end of the cucumber, the blossom man is not the stem end the blossom. So if you like think about a zucchini flower, we see you get those babies zucchinis with the flower coming off of them. Right. So the blossom man is actually the the other end the end that sticks out of the plant. And from the research that I was able to do that is where it's mostly concentrated. So taking a small slice off of that section will get rid of a lot of where those enzymes are. Also, if there's any flour material left, where the flakes off at that end that can cause because the flowers maintain that enzymatic activity basically, even if they are dried. So there was a bunch of studies done in the 50s, where they put flowers even into an A pickles that had already been done, and it's softened those pickles, so you really want to get rid of those enzymes. Okay, so that's one way is to cut that off, that's going to lower the enzyme use up use pickles that are made for pickling because they have a lower concentration those enzymes to begin with are more uniform, usually thinner, and are usually kind of denser and don't have any air voids which are also going to lead to better pickles. So choosing the right variety, pickling them right after you pick them so that they don't start softening up so that they're because they basically start getting worse the minute they're taken off the plants. So you want to pickle them soon after they've been harvested. Choose the correct variety of pickled cucumber rather, this is cute cucumbers only by the way, and then trim off that, that stemmen they sorry, trim off the blossom. And the other thing you can do, if you notice most recipes, they have you pouring hot liquid over the pickles is for quick pickling that is, you know, vinegar, not like lactic acid pickles a poor hot mixture over it and then heat it to like 180 or just below for a certain period of time. The reason they start with hot is because they don't want those ends, they want to kill those enzymes right away before they can do any softening. So you hit him with that hot water, and you keep them high enough to kill the enzyme but below 185 where the pectins are gonna start breaking down due to heat, and you wipe out the enzymes and this is going to create a firmer pickle if you go over 180 Really you're shafted because you're gonna soften the pickle the cucumber, so those high temperatures can like high but not too high temperatures inactivate the enzymes and cutting off that blossom and reduces the load of enzymes in there anyway, aside from that high salt levels are going to make it so that it stays crisper, it's going to get more wilted due to osmosis, but it's going to stop the those enzymes from from working. So those all work in a traditional lactic acid cucumber. You know, like where shucks sauerkraut style, you know, lactic acid bacteria, the high salt level I think stops the enzymes from working and so leaves to having a crisp pickle. The other thing you can add, now go to regular vegetables, I wasn't able to find much on kind of pectin break down enzymes and other things like cauliflower and whatnot which make delicious pickles. But