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Hello and welcome to cooking issues. I am Dave on your host Chris Matthews coming to you live on the heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from 12 to 1245. Anastasia has been held up today late I think she's fallen victim to our fabulous fabulous eltra

I just got a text that said anything L train

effing L train yeah so it's uh you know it's a far cry for who's that band shoots he shoots he groove that had their pro L train song the heck were they thinking heard of such a thing? Yeah, look it up well maybe it let's see if we can get that for our for our what's it called? You know our intro song thing? So Jackson's I'm unable to remember the telephone number here. Can you give it to him?

718497 to 128

that is 718-497-2128 call in with all of your live cooking or non cooking related questions, technical or not. Okay, so start with questions that have been emailed to us beforehand. This one comes from Okay, last name is p e t h o with an OOM lout I'm going to assume that pronounced Petter but I don't know Joseph Petter and Corby Kummer, our friend from from the Atlantic Monthly the senior food editor there says Dave an article and there's been many so we'll talk about it about sugar suggested sugar does not melt but rather decomposes and that there is a time temperature relationship associated with sugar. My question and this is Joseph question Corby. This was like Hey, what's up with this? Anyway? My question is that does that mean that suevey Caramel can be created. Any thoughts on this? As for me, I will try some experiments soon. Okay, so I'm gonna fill everyone in. There's a bunch of research that's been produced recently by a group of people, mainly out of universities, University of Illinois, showing that sugar does not actually melt in a traditional sense, but rather melt and decomposes at the same time, right? So a traditional material with a traditional melting point, like a metal, you can take it from a solid to a liquid back to a solid back to a liquid back to a solid back to a liquid bubble, blah, blah, blah, right? You're virtually ad infinitum. assuming there's no oxidation and stuff like this. Right? This has a traditional melting point. Oh Anastacia just showed up the oil tray in wholesale, you're gonna have to lift my my headphone cord so she can get into her customer receipt. Oh, there goes the microphone. Alright, here we go. All right, now we're up to a full staff. Now. Sugar on the other hand, right. The research has shown that every time someone is trying to figure out what the melting point of table sugar is sucrose, they've noticed that it's been widely varying over the literature. And these guys did a study basically showing that there is no single melting point that basically it starts to decompose. And, and that basically shifts when it melts so that how fast you heat it changes. Basically, when it appears to melt, and all the way up to when they're using something extremely quickly where they can ramp up to temperature on the order of like five 600 degrees Celsius per minute. And still they're showing a shift, they have data that shows that sugar starts to break down roughly at 120 degrees Celsius, which is too hot for too hot for cvwd. But not I forget what the temperature and pressure cooker is, but it's somewhere in that region, you might be able to do something in in a pressure cooker, I have gotten things to sugars to Brown in a pressure cooker over time, but at 120 C at normal pressure, you're talking about long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long time for it to for it to start sugar to start breaking down. Of course you can get the temperature well above 120 C and A pressure cooker by basically just reducing the amount of water present anyway, so sue the caramel No, but very interesting research on sugar and it basically decomposing at the time, that same time that it melts and so not having a a a melting point. And for those of you that really give a hoot and holler about this look up investigation of the heating rate dependency associated with the loss of crystalline structure and sucrose glucose and fructose using thermal analysis approach 120 C using thermal analysis approach parts one and two of this year along with their blockbuster follow up can the thermodynamic melting temperature of sucrose glucose and fructose be measured using rapid scanning differential scanning calorimetry. So I mean, those are was scintillating. Reading this morning moustache. I can't tell you how excited I was to read all those papers this morning. Oh my god. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. So another question from Steve. Steve a often writing in although I don't have his last name, but Steve writes in on pressure cookers and his question on pressure cookers and pressure and unsought Hey, thanks for answering my question about pressure cookers, and know the electric one he has an electric one doesn't hit 15 psi only manages tend to 12 psi, but on the plus side and get really hot. So it's great for browning and I don't have to keep an eye on it when it's cooking, still experimenting with it and having fun with the results. Since I last spoke about electric pressure cookers Cuisinart sent me one of their electric pressure cookers It does indeed do Browning, it is great in that it is quiet doesn't release steam doesn't release kind of any extra moisture into the atmosphere. But I was trying to run tests on it to see what the pressures related were. And indeed, I wasn't even able to get 10 psi i was able to get roughly I think nine psi based on the temperature measurements which didn't quite make it 240 I forgot what the actual numbers were. My next eight has something to do with the way that they're regulating the temperature based on the bottom, there's like a little spring that shows that the thing is in and then they're measuring the temperature at the bottom. And that's how they're calculating what to do it. They're not actually measuring pressure as far as I can tell. So my next step is to open up the quiz and art and see whether there's a potentiometer or something in there that I can futz with that'll change what the temperature set limit is, if there is I'm going to adjust the temperature up to have it be at 15 psi and see whether because I really want my pressure cookers to be at 15 psi. I've run a lot of tests where we will check the taste of different things at different pressures. And honestly or 15 psi second ring is pretty optimal for things like stocks, and also for the speed of cooking and for the modification of texture and things like meats. So I want it to be 15 psi. So more to work on that later. But it does seem like a great piece of equipment. I'm trying to figure out how to hack it now if any of you have had experience hacking, please no pressure cookers please write in and tell us how Oh, how to do it before I ruin the one that was sent me because I would like to use it eventually in my house after I finished messing with it. Right. Anyway, thanks to Cuisinart for sending it. Okay. I, by the way, if any of you have some cool equipment out there that you want us to beat on and look at, send us some equipment to beat on and look at. We have a call and stuff. Yes. Call. Are you on the air?

Hi, Dave. It's Colin. Hey. Okay. Very long radio silence. I had something to ask you. Sure. So have you you cooked with Sorrell? Very much.

I've only you know, you have used fresh and I've used the basically the red the high viscous style stuff to do beverages. You know, for it's basically the the the acidity and the color. You know, there's a whole group of Caribbean and also African beverages based on oral drinks. Yeah, I think they're great. I mean, they're, you know, the, the acidity is very kind of specific. I haven't looked up what the acid is. I think it's I

think, I think it's like Salix. I'm not totally

Yeah, I was gonna say that. Yeah, yeah, it's at least partially that and that's what gives it its similar kind of acid characteristic to something like rhubarb. So and you know, for those of you that haven't had sorrel, but have had rhubarb, there have a similar sort of feeling in its acidity. And so I would bet that their acid makeup is fairly similar. That said, I love it as a drink. I've had, I haven't had good luck yet mixing it as an alcoholic drink. I've the ones I've really enjoyed have been more like non alcoholic drinks, if you hadn't Good luck with it as an alcoholic drink.

I've actually tried it as a drink. And I just sort of have had some growing and have been cooking with it a lot, right? But so the thing is, you know how it's got that really nice, bright, fresh flavor when it's raw. When you cook it, it gets a tick, it gets very excellent texture, it gets this kind of like creamy, velvety kind of goop texture that's

similar to like metals.

And that's totally like, oh, I had them in like testers and like all that. Let's see. Oh, that's so it takes on it's kind of cooked spinach flavor, that kind of muddles like, you know, kind of take some of the freshness out of that flavor that I really enjoyed. So trying to figure out if there's a way to cook the soil or get it creamy consistency. One, because like one nice thing about it is you can then strain that to a cheesecloth and get rid of all the fibrous matter, because it kind of just turns in, like I said, and it was like goop. And so I'm trying to see if I can turn that into something fluffy,

but you want to, you want to turn the leftover fiber into something fluffy, or you want to turn the

Get rid of the fiber just like to so you only have that creamy texture of the kind of least that gets. You know, since it gets this kind of niche flavors are way to, like, finish to like, keep it fresh, but still pick out something. I've tried a trend, the kind of like, you know, go to raw foodist thing where you like put a little oil and salt and massage it. Like there's there's good, there's still it's still too much structure to really like.

Yeah, bring it out. Yeah, so those raw food things are based on a couple of different ideas. And that is they're basically to destroy structure without heat. But it's not the same kind of structure destruction you get from cooking, it's more akin to forced wilting is basically all those raw food cooked vegetable things are basically forced wilting and shifting of osmotic pressures, how they work. But when you're cooking something, you're actually cooking and breaking down, you know, the pectins, and all of those things. So it's an actually a different thing. And I wouldn't think that you can get around the change in flavor. But what you could do if you if you like the cook spinach flavor, in addition to the fresh flavor, you can do it I always do for blueberry things which is like mix some fresh back with the cooked. Do you know what I mean? So like whenever I'm working with blueberries, like blueberry pies and blueberry tarts, I'll have my cooked blueberry component and then I'll also always put fresh blueberries back in because I really liked the brightness of a fresh blueberry. But I also like the texture of the cooked blueberry goop and a pilot say so you might augment it, you know, do you think that would work or no?

Maybe cuz it's like, the thing is when you strain it out, then it feels like probably going to be stretched out

as well. Oh, but I don't know, I think you're gonna get some of it in there. I think I think another thing you could try to do is try to get some of the, the like the hibiscus, although it's red, bright red, you know, like that like that, and then make a tea of that because even though it's dried, and then he didn t, it's pretty bright. And then you could mix some of that mixture back in and get some of that brightness back.

Okay, and so what do we, what kind of things lead to this, more or less in green that symbols, or you know how like, instead of trend basil when they when you hit them and they get kind of dark, the oxidizing are like what's going on, that really changes if

I don't really know what the change in flavor is ascribed to. Although I will remember to ask McGee that. But most of those green things, if you remove their characteristic top notes, and aromatics have a very similar Cook, spinach smells. So when you wrote when you do rotary evaporation on basil, and you blend it, and then after everything is sucked off, you get this kind of cooked spinach smell. And that is that is something that McGee knows exactly what it is. And it's a couple of compounds that I should remember, but I can't, I can't for the life of me remember what they are, but a couple of compounds that give that specific smell and all those green things, have it in it, I'm gonna try to remember and the next time for next time, I'll try and I'll try and bust back on what it is.

Right. So it's telling us something just coming from from being oxidized that you could get around by doing it under vacuum or having some kind of shielding gas,

or the Browning is caused usually, I mean, but if it's turning dark, there's a bunch of things going on. There's enzymatic Browning, so if you cook it quickly enough, as you blanch it whole without breaking it, you should be able to keep some of the green color, then there's you know, then there's other things like the chlorophyll can get eventually broken down cooking long time that's gonna go olive drab so there's a bunch of different color kind of changes that can happen. When you're doing I'd have to look specifically what you have to kind of see what's going on. But I wish I can remember what the flavor thing was left as the stops. You're gonna remind me to ask McGee next time. Yes. You're not in your mind. You're not even writing it down. You're just forgetting it as we speak. All right now she's now she's using her texting for good. Thank you. Alright, so Jose, I gotta go back to for a second to Steve because Steve had his question about pressure cooking right? And so he then says this thing about salt. He Steve also has a question he says, I have question about salt and bitterness what is happening to the bitter flavor when you add salt to a grapefruit for example? Is it blocking the bitterness or destroying compounds? And then he has an experiment basically he does with tonic water adding salt tonic water, remove the bitterness or change the bitterness and then freshening up coffee, the bitterness of adding a pinch of salt, but we'd love to know exactly what's happening. Well, Steve, I don't know that it's known for certain there are some papers that have been written about it. The one that I read was The influence of sodium salts on binary mixtures of bitter tasting compounds by keast 2004. And they seem to indicate he she they seem to indicate that that salt is actually acting. The basically the ionic strength of salt is the you know that the fact that it's charged is acting on at the sight of your bitter receptors and altering how you perceive literally altering how your tastebuds perceive bitterness. And the argument one of the arguments, there is a study that was done a while ago, where they put if they if you mix salt and bitter together and put it on your tongue, it is less bitter than if you just add bitterness, right. But if you add bitterness to one side of your tongue and salt to the other, you can still taste the bitterness basically. And the thing they're showing is that you need to actually have the salt at the site where the bitter is being received. That argument I don't think is actually true, because I don't know that your tongue can't distinguish, like pattern of excitation. In other words, like like if salt and bitterness are in the same area can modify even if it's not actually modifying your bitter receptor. But these guys have an interesting study where they they say they tested a bunch of different bitter compounds, and many of them were D bittered. Slightly by salt, and mixtures of them were D bitter by salt, but there's a couple of bitter compounds, one in particular, they can't remember the name of the check that salt did not affect. And so because salt was able to affect certain bitter compounds and not others, they're saying that it is not a cognitive IE, like a brain integration effect on on salt modifying bitterness, rather, it is a modification of how the bitter molecules are being perceived at the taste receptor sites. I still don't think that this is necessarily like slam dunk as an argument of what's going on because it could be that that that certain bitter receptors are more apt to be cognitively interpreted along with salt as being less bitter as opposed to others. But I don't know I haven't really read it thoroughly but it's these guys seem to say that, that the salt is actually modifying the way your taste receptors taste and bitterness but I'm willing to hear arguments from other people. Yeah, it's all right with that said why don't we go to our first commercial break that we laid down

on the L train every single day yes we're going to meet this imagine that was like a Mr. Negativity it's hard to get back in

no time for money no industry shake the cops let's go get these thoughts are you doing a body back to Tulsa your energy back myself Lazarus he was the man who open up your eyes better yet y'all imagined

even too early yeah shoots the groove shoots a groove much like the actual L train taking forever to get to the destination get to the dang chorus guys seriously, seriously. Of course they would like the L train anyways. In oh, by the way, in case you weren't there before calling your live questions to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128. All right now, Ian writes in with a question on vacuum fish. Dear Dave, I'm curious about using suevey for raw fish portions for storage. I've heard that this is not a good idea. I don't know from whom, but we'll talk about that in a minute. And in practice, I found the fish can develop all flavor after a few days. I'm sure it has a lot to do with freshness of the fish before packaging. I bought fish from Japan that has been packed in plastic and it was impeccable, but it's probably been packed immediately after it was killed and prepped. Just wondering if you have any specific information on storing fish cvwd do's and don'ts and enjoys the program. Thank you. And another question came in that I'm going to just smack these together because they're very similar John writes and also that fact fish and he says hello, I have a quick question. I'd like to pitch for tomorrow show. I recently purchased an immersion circulator good call this and this weekend, I would like to cook a couple of monkfish loins, I don't have a cryovac and I haven't tried this before, but from what I've heard monkfish is good fish for low temperature cooking. My plan is to wrap the fish in plastic and then pop it into ziplock bags. Am I at a significant disadvantage versus vacuum sealing here, and I was hoping to get a suggestion for an appropriate time and temperature. Thanks so much. Okay. I'm gonna start with John No, John, you are not at a disadvantage. In fact, in some ways you're at an advantage. I find that in tests I've run where we vacuum fish. If you put too much of a vacuum on fish, you can affect the texture so I really like fish cooked, either wrapped in plastic or just directly in Ziploc bags with oil as presume you're wrapping it to preserve the shape of it and then put it if you wrap it in plastic wrap a couple layers of plastic wrap and you can go on www dot cooking issues.com low temperature primer and check the ways of packing without a vacuum machine and you can see a rolling technique you don't need the Ziploc at all actually you can cook it directly in a plastic wrap. And that's a great technique or cooking in a ziplock is a good technique. So in some ways I think you're at an advantage for that because you're not going to destroy the texture by over vacuuming it as four times and temperatures they're kind of all over the map. I haven't personally cooked much monkfish so I can't tell you but you know like the one Rocha style technique, which is also I think put out by some other people is they use a 60 degree Celsius which is 140 degree water bath for for about 12 to 15 minutes. And this is delta T temperature they're not trying to cook it all the way through to that temperature. They're shooting apparently for a core temperature of about 48 degrees Celsius which is pretty low. Another person cooks at about 57 degrees Celsius which is about 135 for 30 minutes, that's not delta t and a significantly higher that's what I do like striped bass that so that's like a really firm tasting and then another person really enjoyed 48 degrees C for one hour, which seems to me not the way I would go like I don't think I would like it quite that low. The monkfish I think I'd probably like higher closer in the 50s but it could be I could be wrong and I wouldn't necessarily cook monk fish for a full hour just because I think it might start breaking down I don't know what the enzymes are like but a lot of fish have enzymes in them that break them down if you cook them for too long and make them mushy. Another note is that one of the reasons temperatures for fish can be so all over the map is a lot of fish go through basically two zones where they taste good. A very low temperature range where you know it's kind of fudgy and Trent almost translucent, and like one rock and a lot of like you know new school people like that but a lot of people hate those fish I cook that way and another one slightly higher usually 50. For salmon, it's like 50 Celsius right there. Salmon been 50. That's more traditional tastes and a lot, a lot of people like that. So it can be kind of confusing. But I would if I was had to do it and I only had one shot, I would probably do this 60 degrees Celsius for about 15 minutes. Obviously, it depends on how big around the thing is small. That's probably for a fairly thin portion. Okay, back to the question of fish in a vacuum bag. Very interesting. I looked up an article this morning modified atmosphere packaging of flooded rainbow trout by begonia Jimenez in 2002 out of Brazil. And basically, the story is, is that the big flaw of her test by the way, I'm assuming but go on your woman right? Yeah, I hope Yeah. But only with an engineer, by the way. Be going yeah. Anyway. slightly flawed because she doesn't give her vacuum procedure. She just says what equipment she back into with and all of you out there should know that how you apply the vacuum is vitally important to a the texture of the fish but also how much oxygen you remove. But basically saying that, indeed there is spoilage in the vacuum bag. There's microbial growth, even of a robic stuff due to residual oxygen left in it. You know, you you don't I'll read you exactly what they said about the sensory quality of different fish. She did overwrap That's French for plastic wrap, I guess Portuguese for plastic wrapping, vacuum packaging and map modified atmosphere packaging where they actually introduce things like co2 that actually prevent bacteria from growing rather than just removing their oxygen supply. Okay. Although the vacuum packaging kept this is their sensory panel or the vacuum packaging kept lower levels of tea bars, tea that basically that's some BS acronym for oxidation because there's no oxidation because there's less oxygen than modified atmosphere packaging, it gave rise to a faster loss of fresh fish flavor, figs of the Freedom tongue twister, faster loss of fresh fish flavor intensity, along with a deterioration of the visual aspect of the filet. So basically, her point is that, that you still lose some of the fresh flavor of fish if it's stored for a long time and vacuum bags, but don't store fish for a long freaking time. You know what I mean? Like all this go, what are we talking about here? Get your fish, pack the fish cook the fish eat the fish. You know, I've always said that. You know, one of the problems people have is they tried to get this extended shelf life and they're like, Hey, can I buy the fish today? And then like, you know, cook it next year and still okay, no, no, no, I mean, you can get some extension of, of shelf life. It's true. But when you're shooting for maximum quality, don't do it. Don't do it. All right. Derek writes in with an interesting question that I'm just gonna say right out and I don't know the answer to cookies and creaming Hello everyone, I have a quick question and most cookie recipes when you cream the fat usually butter and sugar together and that's you know, for those of you that never creamed anything, I mean, I'm assuming that most of our listeners have creamed something before but you know, you take your your, your KitchenAid brand stand mixer or anything actually whenever you want. And you beat the hard butter and the sugar to get usually for like my mom, she can't cream with

a fork of that you can't convince her otherwise you

look the whole point is to beat air into it. If you're beating air into it, how you gonna beat air into sugar and butter with a fork. If anyone out there please send me a video where you effectively cream butter and sugar with a fork. I like you know that the you know the impossibles that are The Incredibles that kid dash who's like the fastest kid in the world. Like maybe he could do it or like some sort of like bionic super person could effectively cream with a fork. Or you know, I've met Ukrainians before. You cannot cream with a fork or you mean like something like biscuits maybe there are no cookies. In frigging sane, insane. I'm just gonna go ahead and I'm gonna go on record and call that insane. Anyway, the whole point of that is to is to add air to your cookie. And then the reason that you add the eggs. Oh, sorry, I didn't even finish the question yet. Most cookie recipes where you cream the fat usually butter sugar together the recipe that instructs you to add egg before the flour. I screwed up recently out of the egg halfway through adding the flour. It did not seem to mess up my recipe. What's the deal? Okay. All right, Derek, the deal is usually add the eggs, especially in things like cakes, because the eggs can add additional leavening additional error trapping while you're beating the man as opposed to the flour, which I guess they figured doesn't. So it's the idea of generating all of your air bubbles early in the process. So first creaming to create volume than adding eggs, usually one at a time to increase the volume and the evenness of the mix to get a light fluffy aerated mixture before you add your flour and then bake it right but that's the reason that if a recipe doesn't need a lot of extra aeration, or like you know wanna marry Did you know what I mean? Like, like cookie, you know, like for instance, like when I'm making a brownie right when I'm making a brand Honey, you get to choose the texture based on how you how you do it, you can go from basically like dense like fudge Master General brownie by melting your butter, all the way up to creaming and then beating your egg and then folding your flour and you know you can do a wide range of textures based on on your creaming and or a guiding procedure. So I'm assuming that with your recipe, if I first of all, I don't think that when you add the egg is going to matter like even like a speck unless you're beating it enough after you add the egg to to aerate it more. You know what I'm saying? Does that make sense? Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And also, I think adding the egg is going to help you incorporate the flour but on something like a cookie where there's so little moisture anyway, it's not like you're going to develop gluten, you can hit it hard enough to get all of the flour in to the recipe without developing gluten. So I think it really is not going to matter much unless you want it for an aeration effect, which I don't think it's going to be a big deal in many cookies. What do you think?

I think you're right.

I mean, Score one for me. All right now. question in from Eve. Eve Bergesen. Who by the way, it was a co student when he called a classmate of our former intern, Tim ooga booga mother who can remember who come on yeah, yeah. Or we call them my Jima like Heihachi anyway whenever he was a he like tall dude, looks looks kind of Amish although he isn't and like and like made fireworks. Really. So recently, Tim anyway. Hello, Tim, if you're listening, and eat. I am a graduate of the SEI culinary arts program. I work in the pastry department of craft restaurant. I have an idea and I'm wondering how to execute it a cold torch is there a way to take a tank of liquid nitrogen in a small tank so it is portable, like a blowtorch and figure out a way to project it into a small stream much like a blowtorch. It'd be cool to create frozen shells around things. Do you have experience with something like this? Okay, I do not have experience although there are people that do have experience what you want to look up something called a Brian mill can be ROI Em, I think I ll and they're used by dermatologists to freeze warts on people. It's a technique called like cryo surgery or anything like that. It's basically it looks like a little oil gun but it's a little liquid nitrogen canister and you get different nozzles and it sprays small amounts of liquid nitrogen into freeze small surface areas. A similar technique was used by the ARS X you know one reorge Zack and at all where they were basically freezing spots on plates so that they would have a hot plate they would freeze one spot on the plate and put like an ice cream on that and a hot thing on the rest of the plate so that the you could have a nice hot plate for your whatever and then a cold section for your ice cream on like savory ice creams played it out. They were also using it to inject into chocolate to make these like weird chocolate balloon shapes. If you want it some serious chilling though, these are like spot chillers you're gonna want to get something called a snow horns no hard and what they are basically you hook them up to a co2 tank and they just spray out like a like a fog of like hyper cold co2 And that's used for kind of flash freezing things. Look up snow horn, but I think they might be loud. No, no, I don't have one turn it and another expensive we could get one what do you think? Yeah,

where are you gonna use liquid nitrogen to help people with their warts when we were in strapped for cash or a sperm bank or something that

was your idea. It's the stuff is always sitting there and thinking like we got no money. You know, a friend of mine, a friend of mine had a medical procedure and so and it was wiped out his wiped out his his sperm because it was bone marrow transplant. And so they had to save his sperm in liquid nitrogen. And he like, like me has a problem with like, you know, paying attention to things like bills, so they kept on sending him messages, we're gonna thaw out your sperm. We're gonna kill your your future offspring. If you don't pay, and he didn't pay, and he got the note like, like he got a stack of them all at once. And he opened them and like the last one was like, All right, you know, this is it, we're going to do it. And it's like it was like dated like you know, like saying that they were going to do it on a Friday and he read it on a Saturday and so he ran it in person on Monday. And they luckily like hadn't thought this stuff out. He paid his his back sperm storage fees and has two lovely children now anyway. Kevin from Virginia Beach. writes in, I heard on this past week show that that you and I Anastasia you and I and McGee were having troubles riding in the rain I've used right in the rain and that's belt rip by the RIP right in the rain products pretty extensively and I can vouch that they work as advertised as for getting your labels to stick to the wet fruit Good luck. You know, Kevin, you're exactly right. I have right in the rain lab notebooks. I've been using them for a while Wiley to frame has been using them in the kitchen for a while he actually gave me some I think he got on before I did and he like likes to give them to his cooks and then throw them into stock pots to make fun of them because they don't get all messed up. They do make great products. And I actually have had one. It but it was packed in my freaking bag. It wasn't with me in the place and plus a stash who writes the notes and she refuses to carry it right in the rain product around that. Why have you never gave me like holster and use it for none. Okay? Very few people out there people out there listening. Here's what happened. I have a stack right in the rain stuff which are meant to be cooking notebooks for your kitchen, right? And she's like, Okay, can I write this? rip this paper out and use it a post it note I'm like, no, no, no, we have stacks of post it notes. That's what happened. You know who you're gonna believe? We're gonna believe me. Yeah, right. Sure. All right. We maybe for people that haven't met the both of us they would believe you on this. Jack, who do you believe? I'm not going to get him into it? I'm not gonna get him. No, no, no comment. Yeah, no. These days. All right. And then before I get to the related question, because Kevin wants to know whether or not there we have any recommendations for must visit food enthusiast destinations similar to the fruit and spice Park. Kevin, I'm gonna get back to that. But Rolf wind writes in on the same question, and he says that in the most recent issues, cooking issues radio broadcasts Dave ranted about the need for weatherproof fruit labeling technology. And it goes I believe that this technology already exists. small portable tattooing devices are used to label rodent tales in laboratory settings for animal identification sometimes, just to make them look like badass is the labels are essentially permanent labeling is quick to perform if to under an hour mph can be achieved. Imagine the number of mangoes one could tattoo true story true story and orchard friendly battery a battery operated systems are available. Their fruit compatibility is suggested by the fact that thick skin even waxy fruits are often used as standards for animals during operator training. One of the many examples of this equipment can be found at animal id.com Happy inking Keep up the good work. All right. Well, and by the way that was addressed to Dear Miss hammer, which I enjoy. Anyway, Rolf, I love this suggestion. And you got me thinking about a bunch of different things here. The one that you pointed to was the ATS dash three general Rodin tattoo system. The problem with it is is about three grand and a like cursory view of eBay led me to believe that they're not widely available on the eBay. Maybe I don't know how to how to anyway, like, like different combinations of rodents and tattoos, other than tattoos over rodents don't like show up so much on eBay. So I don't know whether or not I'm searching it wrong. But I did a quick search and you can buy a battery operated tattoo pen, but you can spend as much as $150 or $200 on one that's professional but they make one called like, rat rabbit it rabbit rabbit or something like that rabbit it like a tattoo pen? It's battery operated, right? And it's got like some sort of like a, you know, lifetime guarantee. I haven't seen how waterproof it is right? But it's just like you take a AAA battery, you put a little gun and take it out in the orchard. And you could I mean, I've never have you used a tattoo pen before? No. I have friends who do this for a living. I should ask them like use one. Okay, you're supposed to practice on something like a banana. Right? So if we got an ink that didn't bleed too much into the fruit, man, I'm assuming they use I think like some version of like, you know, in the acre something selling nice black foodgrade it's called human grade. How's it? Is that better or worse than food grade human grade? Anyway, I'm assuming you can just sit there eating right? The name of the food out? What do you think? Yeah, I'm gonna buy one. Rabbit it. It's only it's I think it's like 40 bucks or something like that. Yeah. Anyway, Rolf, thank you so much for putting us on this correct line of thinking because I'm definitely not going to spend $3,000 to tattoo my fruit. But unless someone gives you Yeah, someone gives me like a $3,000 fruit tattooing. I'm gonna say yes. Then I'm not gonna turn that down. Right. Yeah. Okay. Now, to finish this out. Another thing we had last week, that was interesting was I spent a good number of minutes, insulting, insulting, like sciences ability to recreate meat via 3d printing technologies. And literally the day after that, right, the day after that, Natasha and I had a meeting with a person who helped in the CO founding of a company called Organovo Organovo. Right. Organovo. And what organo does to give you some background is they can do things like grow blood vessels, whole blood vessels, right. And so most of the meat printing technology, what they'll do is they build a scaffold of collagen and then let meat cells grow into that scaffold. And that is, to me as far as food preparation gross, but it's not going to make good food. You know what I mean? It's not going to make a good meat substitute. And that's basically what I was ranting against and also, anyway, we'll we'll get it before I'm gonna I'm gonna start ranting against. So So these guys actually print undifferentiated or partially differentiated cells, get them to bind together, they differentiate and they turn into actual organs like the blood vessels that they can graft in if you need a coronary artery transplant, let's say, right? And I was like, Holy crap, I had no idea you could do this, you know, they could do that. I was totally shocked. Crazy, crazy. They can do this. They also make human meat, but tissue not to eat, although they could they make it because drug companies want a human tissue to test out drugs on. And so it's very, it's much better than using mice tissue or pig tissue. And you know, don't worry, no humans killed blah, blah, blah, anyway. And so he came to us and says, Well, what do you think about the idea that we can print meat and he's like, I can print out actual muscles in like shape and the way the muscles are made with fat marbling and all that. I have my doubts as to whether it's possible, but if it's possible, is clearly the closest that anyone has ever even attempted to get to actually print out something that I would consider food because as I said, last week, most meat substitutes it's all about like reproducing some sort of overcooked, horrible, like mono textural pablum crap. You know what I mean? But these guys are saying they can actually do it, and then, you know, and without killing the animals, so you could you know, if they could get, I'm still I don't understand scientifically how they would do things like, correct for what the animal ate, or the different enzyme makeup that is in a cell based on how long it's been in the animal because I think it said, like, like, let's say you're using a pig to make him. Older pigs have better have better enzyme makeups for making ham. In other words, the muscle breaks down differently. So a ham from an older pig, not just because of fat content, or because myoglobin or any of those things, but simply because of the fact that it's older is going to make a different ham than a younger, younger pigs. I don't know how they're going to, you know, do things like that meat is some complicated business. You don't I'm saying? So I don't know whether that's actually possible to correct for but if they could, then, you know, we could all have manatee steaks. You know, one of my goals is to have a cruelty free manatee steak, because I told you about this, right? Yeah, yeah. Because manatee. Right. I'm not advocating hurting manatees, please, please do not say that. I'm advocating humanities I'm not but in in his book, The unnatural history of the sea. The author whose name I forget, basically says that we've actually been making animals go extinct for a long, long time. It hasn't been you know, just recently.