Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

So to be the first to hear our episodes when they launched this fall, go to wherever podcasts are streaming, and hit subscribe and make sure to give us a follow at the Culinary call sheet on Instagram.

On the heritage radio network in a few moments, stick with us.

Hey, we're Cloud Control and you're listening to heritage Radio network.com.

You're listening to heritage radio network.com bringing you the freshest radio in Brooklyn since 2009. hear directly from chefs to farmers, artists to architects, authors to brewers and everyone in between. Check out all of our shows on our website or by searching heritage radio network in the iTunes Store. The following program has been brought to you by barter house wines. For more information visit www dot the barter house.com.

Hello, I can hear myself. Hello and welcome to cookie issues. This is Dave Arnold, the host of cookie issues coming to you every Tuesday live from 12 to 1245 on the heritage Radio Network, here in the studio today with Anastasia the hammer Lopez bringing the hammer to all of you that step out of line although they never do, do they know they never do. That's crazy. All right, call in all of your questions to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128. By the way, today's show brought to you buy the burger house some of our favorite people in wine distribution, something I'm sure all of our listeners know, but probably don't, is that I'm extremely lazy. So I find it difficult to memorize the names of any kind of wines that I like or you go into a store and you find a wine and you don't, you don't really know what to get. All you need to do seriously is memorize the name of like five or 10 distributors that you like that you know, bring in interesting products. And then you can look on the back of the bottles. Find a distributor you enjoy and odds are you might have a winner. Anyway. Little tip for me to you on how to buy wine when you don't know what you're doing. All right. Our first question comes in from Paul Peterson, who is a researcher at the Humane Society of the United States. I googled him and he had a comment on last week's gelatin issue where we were talking last week about the possibility of using recombinant DNA technology to produce gelatin without having to kill a bunch of animals. And the reason to do this is because gelatin is awesome. And it's also using things like gel capsules. It has very a lot of very good properties. Gelatin is great. Anyway, he has a comment on he says the whether or not a vegan would use the question is Would a vegan use this? And he says the answer he thinks is it depends on the individual. There's a similar though much more vexing project to harvest meat cells from an animal and grow them in a bio reactor thus to create meat without harming the end. More with other potential side benefits, like it might cause less pollution than conventional farming, etc. And he points me to a, I forget the name of it's called like meat harvest.org or something like that harvesting meat dot whatever anyway, because for some reason, hey iPad, people figured out a reason why they the URLs get stripped out of my stuff when I put it on my iPad anyway, there are some vegans who are fine with and prefer this technology this artificial Well, this cultured meat technology, while others would abhor such a thing. Basically, Paul thinks it comes down to whether why one is truly vegan wet, some simply want to create the least suffering, in which case they probably use the cultured meat. And some just detest animal products a priori and they would object to technology. I think I basically agree I would object to the technology because a straight up I doubt that it would be delicious. I mean, unless you could literally culture, the muscle. A exactly as it appears in my favorite piece of beef. You know what I mean? I doubt that I would like meat that's made in a bioreactor the same way that I like meat. It's made on an animal. Do you know what I mean? It's like, we think about it this way. How much of a difference is there between the most delicious piece of beef that you've ever had? Right? And craphole? You know, third rate beef that you get in a in, you know, in like a low rent supermarket. There's a big difference, right moustache, what do you think? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I mean, my point is, is that, you know, I'm always shooting for ultimate delicious on a product. And so, and I think this is my problem with most most meat substitutes in general, is that what they're substituting for, is kind of the chewy texture of meat. Right. And when I say that, I mean overcooked meat, they're usually shooting at overcooked me, right, kind of like, you know, tough, you know, a little bit chewy. And then they tried to substitute in meat. So flavors. And by that, I mean usually protein breakdown products. So you're putting in like nutritional yeast, you're putting in broken down soy compounds, anything like compounds like soy sauce, things like that. Anything that are going to contain, you know, free amino acids that are going to give some of that mommy nature. And then also they typically substitute in some sort of browning, or some sort of smoking, to mimic those kinds of flavors that we get out of meats. But really, these are kind of only the externalities of meat, the meat is so many other things. It's the different muscles, it's the way the grains are aligned different muscles, it's the way the fat is placed with them. It's the particular characteristics of the fat based on what the animal was eating. It's it's many, many things. I mean, the flavor of meat isn't some sort of monotonic thing that can be recreated in a bioreactor. Now, I mean, that said, I mean, if I'm gonna assume that technology could some point gets so sophisticated, that it could literally grow, you know, a ribeye. I just don't see that happening anytime soon. I see perhaps some sort of actual meat meat analogue that functions better than many meat replaces on the market today, but I just don't see. You know, my most delicious you know, H P. H. ribeye steak, you know that it cooks who've eaten sear over like a, you know, fiercely hot charcoal fire. And then, and then drizzle it with more with the, you know, my favorite Tuscan and olive oil and sprinkle it with salt. I just don't see that coming out of a bioreactor anytime soon. What about Ustasha? I agree. Yeah, you're talking to the microphone, your face towards the window? Hey, yeah, there you go. She's only been doing the radio show for a year and a half folks don't Don't mind her that she can't face into a microphone when she's talking anyway. But then for Fall has a question. He says he was curious whether i What experience I have with cooking Satan, which is basically Satan's wheat, wheat gluten that is then formed into a dough and is typically cooked in a liquid where it absorbs the flavor from the liquid. And then it's a slice and then either sauteed fried stew and whatnot as a meat substitute. And it's a traditional meat substitute in, in parts of Asia hasn't really caught on here to the extent that I think it should many people use it. Instead like their say, well say Tom so much better meat replacer than tofu. I say You're both wrong. Tofu is tofu, and it's delicious and should be used like tofu is and you shouldn't buy crappy supermarket tofu and it's had all of its flavor leached out, and it's been sitting there for a billion years and in a whole crapload of water. I think that stuff's you know, vile and useless, except as a flavor carrier. And Satan, I think also needs to be explored for its own sort of properties instead of just being a straight up meat substitute. Anyway, Paul says, Do I have any preferred cooking method boilie versus braising? I would add pressure cooking is a good cooking technique for it. Unfortunately, I have not. And he also wants to know whether I've experimented with cooking cvwd I in a vacuum bag. I unfortunately haven't experimented with Satan in many, many years. I've only played with making it a couple of times. And it was, you know, years before I really got into cooking sushi. It's an interesting idea. I don't know that you get a benefit from cooking severe though, because you're cooking typically at a high temperature anyway, I don't know that you get a benefit from cooking the wheat gluten at a lower temperature below boiling point or substantially below boiling point, I think you might get some textural benefits from like I say cooking in a pressure cooker, because then you can get some expansion when you release the pressure, you might be able to get some infusion by going sushi, but you can fuse anyway, with the stock the stock permeates the same time as it's cooking. One advantage to cooking sushi that I could think of off the top of my head is if you had a very expensive ingredient that you wanted to infuse into the satanic cook it that way, you could cook it in a very, very small amount of liquid. So if you had some expensive flavor, or something you didn't have very much of you could probably bag the say 10 in the thing, and then cook it that way. But I would not use a high vacuum because then you're going to be compressing it and and altering and or destroying the texture of the space and fuse very high vacuum is going to be dense and rubbery. So I would almost do it in a ziplock bag rather than su vida i probably would never do it Savini and are there any other vegetarian proteins that benefit from cvwd? Again, if you you can compress things, you know, get rid of the air cells in in things with cvwd, which might be you know, to firm up tofu or whatnot, but it's really more of a water expelling issue. So I can't think off my head of any vegetarian proteins that would benefit from seaweed other than possible textural changes and infusion techniques because the low temperature aspect of cvwd is not really necessary for vegetarian proteins. Anyone who thinks I'm a jerk and wants to call me out on that, please do because I'd like to know some good applications where you think especially Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right into the microphone. Nice. Nice. Okay. Ross McGuire from Dublin, Ireland writes in again about green vegetables. Ross says I recently came across a Spanish vegetable stew type dish Ministra made from fresh vegetables artichoke broad beans, one runner beans are white asparagus sticking with flour is a fantastic shade of green. From what I manage that from what I managed to glean the artichoke when cooked in water changes to a strong Viridian Green Veridian nice cloth really only only an Irish students come out with like the the awesome shade and green, Viridian Green color along with the water, which is interesting, which is what gives us supid strong pigmentation. Do you know what the causes color changes and how one might go about achieving it? Also, are there any other examples of that kind of natural color change which could be used to good effect in the kitchen? Cheers. Okay. Cheers Ross. Anyway, is interesting.

As far as you know, I'm used to mean Astra is like soup in Italian where it's the same word for soup as for as Zubaan. So you could use it, but you can use Ministra I guess as opposed to like Broto, which is more of a broth right and stuff. Yeah. Okay, so I don't know of any Spanish recipe that goes by the name mean Astra. But this coming from an idiot who hasn't researched. So I can't say it. But also, you know, you can make them let's just say minister as a soup, you can make it from any sort of mix of anything you want. So we're so we're dealing here with is a soup or stew of artichoke broadbean Runar. Being a white asparagus, that's then thinking with with flour, and it comes out green Now typically, when you cook a green, here's here's what happens with green things in general when you cook them, right. First of all, the interesting thing you say is that the water turns really green. Chlorophyll is not water soluble. So typically, right? And what's happening is is the majority of chlorophyll is not going to leach out into the water chlorophyll is what makes these things green. Okay, so what happens is, the reason why chlorophyll is not soluble in water is that it's got this long kind of hydrocarbon chain that comes off that's hydrophobic and wants to be soluble in oil, which is why things like you know, basil oil and things like that are such nice bright green because we can extract a lot of the chlorophyll into the oil because it's Water Soluble Oil so soluble rather. So here's what happens when you cook you stick stuff in boiling water if there's any acid and I guess also McGee says alkali can make it happen, you can break off that hydrocarbon chain and now the residual part which is still green is leached into the water. Okay. Now in the center of the of the main part of chlorophyll, the really the business center is a magnesium ion and in water with the action of heat and especially if there's acid, right, that magnesium ion gets kicked out and replaced with hydrogen and what you get is that kind of dark greeny almost all of dragging a bluish bluish color of the chlorophyll after that's been happening. So that's the major color change that happens in most in most vegetables as they cook at or as I should say, as they overcook, which is why we say you can add a little bit of baking soda to something and your vegetables will turn mushy, but they'll go bright green, right bright green because You're basically what happens is, when you put the vegetable in, all of a sudden, you know, the, the light couldn't come out of the vegetable very well, because there's air sacs, the chlorophyll might be containing stuff. So there's basically the color is muted. You throw it into water, and boom, you know what I mean? It is those cells are broken, the water penetrates, and now all of a sudden, the green really pops, it really pops out. So I don't know whether or not the color you're describing is some mixture of cooked and I mean, otherwise, you know, chlorophyll is has magnesium taken out and some that hasn't sometimes become water soluble due to the action of cooking, I just can't tell you'd have to send me a picture of your soup so I can see what's what's going on. Another thing you can do, that could be toxic, so please don't poison your guests. Other than baking soda, which actually in the stash of baking soda would work really well in a soup, because what you could do is you could add baking soda, cook your soup down to us to death, and we'll go break freaking Greeks, they break rain on you. And then at the last minute, correct it with acidity, which will take out kind of the baking soda flavor and bring the soup back, you know, once the temperature is a little bit lower, so it's not going to color change on you might be an interesting thing for you to try if you haven't tried it before. The other thing you can do is you instead of replacing the magnesium with copper, you can place a visa with hydrogen you can replace it with copper and it gets a crazy as you know those olives that are like that hyper bright green, like not the olives like Montseny but the hyper brain like Sharon, some turn yellows are hyper bright like that. I think not sure could be making this up could be lying. I think that they add a little probably lying for those who listening probably a lie. That's the same color that's produced by taking the chlorophyll and replacing the magnesium with copper. And so you can do that. But too much copper is what's the word? I'm looking for poisonous, poisonous, but so small amounts of it aren't so anyway. So what are some other things that you can do to change colors? Well, another one going back to McGee, who we were hanging out with tales of the cocktail last week, if I get time to talk about it I'll talk about it probably won't get time. Especially if some of you suckers call into 718-497-2128 with a question asked him when he forces him to a date. Garlic and onions can turn interesting shades of blue and green when they're cooked very slowly. And the very first Curious Cook column that Harold McGee put into the New York Times, it's got to be like four years ago now three or four years ago. One of the things he treated was this fact that sometimes if you puree onions and garlic or just kind of garlic and cook it very slowly, it can turn green and blue. And what's happening is is that some some molecules, in fact, some of the ones that make make it pungent, some of these sulfur compounds can get altered by enzymes that are native to the onions and the garlic. And then combined together into larger molecules, because typically larger molecules are pigmented is you know, or you can see them as opposed to smaller molecules, which are usually colorless anyways. So the not always usually. So what happens is they combine and they get these kinds of like shocking blue and greens. And so anyone out there who's done any low temperature cooking, let's say you were to put a steak with garlic and butter in a bag and cook it at 55 Celsius for two hours, you'll notice that some of the garlic is going to turn kind of a bluish greenish. And this is something that you can do and I've done actually we've made blue garlic soup using it was blue, blue or green. I can I can't forget like onions turn green and garlic turn blue or the other way around. And you can you can alter the color by combining the different amounts of onion and garlic anyway, if you take a puree or even two slices of onion and garlic, you stick them in a bag and you cook it at like 55 degrees for like an hour. So the stuffs gonna turn bright colors on you. You can then pressure cooker to neutralize some of those flavors so it's not too strong and then you can use it in large quantities and still have the color change diatom to serve. If you don't cook it in a pressure cooker afterwards and the color does stay by the way I've done it then you're in for a world of freaking hurt because if you can see that color if it's a brightly colored puree, please don't go anywhere near your family or friends for the next week and a half. The other one that I could think of off the top of my head is that you can use a booklet if you have a blood base thing and Nathan Myhrvold, Chris Young and Maxine belay at all the Modernist Cuisine cookbook, cookbooks, the mega Obis. And When is he coming on? By the way welcome. Everyone coming on the set third week of August are in the third week of August. Nathan Myhrvold is going to call into the show so none of you chumps missed that stuff. Call in to Nathan Myhrvold and the third week what country am I going to be 16th It'll be here. I'll be here. Awesome. Calling to hear and you are cooking issues. listeners are gonna get the opportunity to personally ask Nathan Myhrvold a question now. Bear in mind Nathan Myhrvold he might he might tear into it depends on what you ask. I mean, you know, he's he's an opinionated guy who should be interesting. I'm excited. I'm super excited. Super looking forward to it. So get your questions ready for the Myhrvold thing and I think Hey, Jack, we can go an hour to an hour on Myhrvold day, right? Oh, yeah. Okay. The other one I was thinking about from their cookbook is you can take blood and hit it with carbon monoxide the same stuff that you use if you're going to separate tailpipe the sad stuff carbon monoxide. If you take carbon monoxide and hit it to to meet its it goes incredibly bright red. There's there are two. There are two small children looking in the studio window right now who are incredibly curious about the way a thing. Trust me kids, it's not that interesting anyway. So this is how they make their rare beef zoo where they cook beef in a bag and they can optionally hit it with carbon monoxide to get a really, really right bread, red color. You can also use this to rip off consumers by hitting meat with carbon monoxide to make it look bright red, even though it's spoiled. And Ken Kirschenbaum bought a piece of meat canned kosher mom or the polymer chemist and our buddy from the experimental cuisine collective at NYU, bought a piece of meat and basically kept it out of a fridge turning you know awful for weeks and stayed in nice bright red color because of the carbon monoxide they so nicely put into the container for it. He hates that he thinks that should be outlawed. Let's take a break. Not yet. Because that goes into this one question. Aaron Smith called in on blood basting mustache you know, only you could ruin such an awesome segue from going from changing the color of blood by adding carbon monoxide into a blood base.

The stars will always do this. You know what if you're about to buy and stash a Christmas present, or a birthday present, don't because what's going to happen is is five seconds literally five seconds before you try to buy her something or get her something like a glass of water. If he's thirsty, she will ask you for it and ruin the opportunity for you to get it for her. That is a lot of information you're giving away. Yes, it's a lot of information, but it's true and it might be helpful to some of our listeners. Should they ever meet you anyway. Aaron Smith writes in with a blood based in question. Hi. Love the show and I'm thrilled that you're back from your break. I was looking through an old French cookbook, the lover and squeeze in FSA and from 1653 and notice an interesting instruction when roasting a pig like a boar. The recipe is you may disguise the boar or you may disguise the pig near to a boar that is after you've beaten it well you shall endure it with blood. I don't know whether it's indoor Andre for me, I will we'll get into this and and after a while stick it spit it and not forgetting to say on the Raven I don't know. feet with blood before it's roasted. Serve it as a bore with sauce or without it. And then Aaron puts down at the definition of indoor is too wet dub some liquor as $1 pie or cake before is put into the oven. So basically a pig is basically with blood before it's roasted on spit. And Aaron is interested in what the blood might be doing. It has and I'm saying I'm keep saying your name a lot because I'm not sure if this is guy Aaron or girl. Aaron II? Can't tell you can't tell. I don't know. Anyway. Sorry about my lack of knowledge on that anyway. So I was curious about what's going on. It has sugars and amino acids, so it could be acting as a Browning agent. I know a touch of glucose and picking duck can lead to beautiful Browning because glucose is reducing sugar, which you use to generate the mire of my reaction along with proteins and amino acids. The Google Search relates to Julia Child's description of press duck, where the duck is based in blood sauce while it's being roasted. And so is this a standard method is falling out of flavor. Have I ever basted with blood or in my press duck adventures and want to know what was going on? Okay, well, and this is an Aaron's from San Diego. So listen. As far as I know, I'm going to say on the ravenol might be indoor is a technique not just for basting bloater going on pies was a standard technique for coating things with different colors in medieval times. So as a presentation trick, for instance, if you're making a coffin trace, which is a bird, you know, the back end of a bird glued on to the front of a pig, right? You would take the seams and whatnot in the outside and you would endure it with different mixtures that would kind of form a crust and also color it to make it look more fanciful. Right. And then typically you would set that by then baking it or roasting it. Now when I make a press duck I don't you know what I always did in the recipes I have. I think this is the way to Adagio on the restaurant does it is they they take the duck that's been strangled so the blood doesn't go out or suffocated and then they press the blood and juices out. Then the blood becomes a thickening agent for the sauce that you use. Then when you cut the meats already been poor roasted then you cut off the breast slices and you reheat them in the sauce and then the sauce thickens up etc etc. So I don't know of any recipe where he then based it and roasted again it's more kind of just a reheat with the slices. There's famous recipes for like civet like or CV I guess I don't know how you pronounce it in French of rabbit or junked hair which is the way a US person would say that uses the blood of the hair as a thickening agent but the the last at the last part of the sauce because it will then thicken up and can curl and break. Niels Norton says in Sweden they have a famous blood soup that's made from goose blood that is cooked for a long time I think with acid to stop it from coagulating too much. So there is a long history of this But the idea of using it as an outer coating I would think that it would set and then and then congeal with the heat and then maybe crust up as it dries out but I don't know what it would taste like it doesn't gross me out mean blood meat it's all part of the animal if the animal unless look unless you're kosher in which case you know donate the blood because the blood is the life and if you do you know a curse on your people you should be cut off from the people etc etc but unless it's like religiously barred for from you for you from having it I think it's a waste to throw it away because you know the you don't kill the animal anyway. I might as well use everything you can I mean, I think that's a more modern way of looking at it so you know, it's nothing Why is it inherently more gross to stash or to eat the blood or any weird part of the of the animal? Why is it more inherently gross than any other part like why is like like couldn't we culturally be raised be like, Oh my god, the loin. Grow gross. Right and why is it inherently because when we cut ourselves we're like crap that's blood. Yeah. I think it's a it's a Yeah, same reason why people think that like they're making a sexual statement by eating like, you know, deer testicles and stuff like that, ya know, when a guy eats a deer testicle people you know what I mean? Like, is it because of some sort of weird like, sexual connotation? Yeah right yourself so so like things that are gross of things that like we don't want to eat like you know things that and whatever very strange anyway All right, so now we will go to our first commercial break caught on your questions 271849 721-287-1814 72128 cooking as you

I'm gonna miss the link and check it out. Check it out and believe me the cabling got some some guests with the bed starts taking place so keep it okay gonna be

following this public service announcement from Heritage Radio Network. Join Linda Placido for a taste of the past every Thursday at 12pm and she indulges her curiosities about food, cooking, drinking and dining of the past by taking a journey through culinary history. Linda interviews, authors, scholars, friends and chroniclers to learn about what was eaten, where and how, from as long ago as ancient Mesopotamia and Rome, right up to the grazing tables and deli counters of today. The show underscores food as a lively link between present and past cultures. Again, that's Thursday at 12pm on the heritage radio.

So Welcome back to Cooking issues, by the way Jack has managed to find and I really like it one of the must be one of the only James Brown songs that I don't know. No. Wow. You know, like, I don't know how many 1000s of hours I've listened to James Brown and managed to get one of the ones I don't know great to know it's

called cold blooded and it's from the record called hell all Yeah,

guess what? I'm gonna go out and download today. No offense, James. I spent money while you're dead, but not spent many hundreds of dollars on your products. I think I'm gonna go steal this one on the internet. What do you think? I don't know. Cold blooded. Hell anyway. By the way, I think Linda Placido might be a good person to ask that last question on blood in history than the blockchain is. I think she wants to be involved somehow with the Museum of food and drink and weed. We love to have her involved. So if I see her, which I very rarely do, but if I see her I'll ask her that blood question that might be right up her alley, okay. Naveen Sinha writes in and by the way, Naveen is the head TA for was last year. And he is this year for the class that Ferran Adria, headlined in Harvard and he's a vegetarian. Okay mustache I want you bust on the guy for being a vegetarian on the radio. The guy already listened is poor. guy. All right, listen, this poor guy in a vein, right? He, he goes to this event. And he and he's now hanging out with all these chefs, right? Because he was involved with this class at Harvard where they had some of the world's greatest chefs go and like wildly my brother in law, all these guys go in. And like all chefs invariably bust on this guy for being a vegetarian, leave the guy alone. Now, he's a TA at Harvard in the Food Food Studies program. And he's not a TA at Harvard at the Food Studies program. He's in the physics and material science program, and they're teaching a study a teaching a class on how to learn about that subject through the lens of food. Yes, yes. Leave the man alone on his vegetarians, please. He's a nice guy who will be causing. Yeah, well, if you if he does, I recommend he calls in to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128. Anyway, Naveen writes and he says he recently read about the ouzo effect, in which anise flavored spirits and liquors become a peck, white, usually, unless it's been colored beforehand, when diluted with water. I was wondering if you've seen this effect occur with other types of spirits. And also do I know of any other examples of color changing beverages? Thanks. Alright, so what's happening with with ouzo or I don't know why the hell they call it ouzo effect seriously, like like they say that ouzo is drunk more in the US than pasties, Ricard or absent. But since absent, you know, went through that surge in popularity after the use of effective and characterized, maybe we should rename it the absence effect how many? By show of hands out in the world on the internet, how many of you have had a glass of ouzo this year? Anyone? Anyone write some sort of absent beverage. There's two people in here raising their hands. You know what I mean? Or pasties are pronounced based substance anyways. So I'm going to forget the name because for some reason, I forgot to paste it into my iPad. But I believe the the oil of all the chemicals called Anatole, I think it's what it's called Anatole. And someone will call in and say I can't believe you forgot the name of it. But there it is, I did. And what happens is, is that it's very interesting effect when you're when you're making usually when you make an emulsion, you have to provide energy, usually mechanical energy to create the little droplets of oil inside of a liquid. And the reason is, is because it takes a lot less energy for because there's a lot more surface area, and there's actual energy associated with keeping two immiscible. I don't mix together liquids next to each other. So that's why usually you have to beat things with whisks and blenders to get into emulsify. Another thing you can do to lower the amount of energy you could put in is to add an emulsifier, which takes away some of the energy required to make that emotion. But the way the ouzo effect works is entirely different. Instead of using mechanical energy, an emotion is made basically, almost spontaneously, it's called spontaneous emotion, then what's going on is that the oil is soluble in an ethanol in alcohol, but not in water. So what happens as you dilute the, you know, I'm gonna say, absence or per No, right, because I don't drink Ooh. So you know, why not? Other things like that. Why not? Like, why not like aguardiente or any other anise flavored thing? Like why ouzo? No offense to the Greeks? No offense, you know what I mean? Anyway, so you when you dilute it with water, you have the entire solution is basically evenly and homogenously saturated with with this oil, and all of a sudden becomes supersaturated. And it does it in a way that that many, many, many, many, many millions of tiny, tiny droplets are instantly formed. Right? And because that's super fast nucleation, you get these small, small droplets that are stabilized, right? For hours, and hours and hours, sometimes even days, depending on on on how it works. And so it's just like instant, like super saturation and massive nucleation it causes the use of effect. And yes, it is visible in many other spirits. I don't know of any commercial spirits, other than the anise flavored ones where it happens, because that's but many of the spirits that we make in the rotary evaporator will show the the ouzo effect when they're diluted. So some of our Thai basil spirits will, if you add water to them, they will go white on you when you mix. And then later on, if you let it sit for days and days, oil will float to the top. And just tons of them. I've had Caraway go white on me when I when I've done it, I don't know what the components are in it that's doing it. But I've had some of our carry, although maybe it was the Caraway that we put phenol into should make more sense maybe maybe, maybe possible. But so the answer is Naveen. Yes. There are other oils that are, you know, soluble in ethanol and weakly are inside a soluble in water and have this effect. The other thing that liquors can do to change colors is you can shift acid base equilibria. So you can have a liquor that's neutral that has anthocyanins in it, and they'll start out in the bluish range. And then, like blue corn, and then as you acidify it with lemon juice or whatnot, it'll turn red, or reddish purple. That's another thing you can do, although I don't know of any. There's some teas in Thailand that are flower based, there's a blue flower based tea and time, I believe is Thailand. Because Natasha was yes, that we researched and, and that one, you make the tea and it's blue, you add the lemon, it turns red. So that's something you can do. Another thing you can do is you can do kind of a reverse ouzo, where you can suspend a weekly soluble, like calcium or magnesium salt in and then when you acidify it it'll go clear stash and I have had, we had to do the it's interesting. You should ask this because we tried those things for this event. We had it and try that flower. What was it called? We couldn't find the flower. I forget the name of it. It's similar to like a blue corn flower or something. It looks blue, that color of blue. Anyway, but it's very rare here in the US. So we tried it and not too much good effect, especially because we needed to do the opposite of what was easy. We needed to go not from red to not from blue to red from red to blue. And basic drinks. Let me tell you, what's the word we're looking for here? Gross. Gross. Okay. Brian oaks writes in on iPads and fruits. I know from the radio show that you have an iPad. Any recommendations on food related apps? No, I don't really I don't really have any food related as you do. What? James thing? What Chang SAP? I don't have that on here isn't released yet. Yeah, I think so.

But listeners if you're interested in developing an app for Heritage Radio Network, email us at info at Heritage radio network.com

Wow. I've heard some people like the ratio thing, but I've never used it. Oh, yeah. I know. People are like that. Yeah. And I hear that I you know, yeah, you know, Jerry lavish our web guru. He would know because he does that kind of stuff. I look I use my iPad as basically a book. It's basically like, you know, I have like, you know, probably 100,000 pages or something of of science related books and articles in my iPad. And that's mainly what I use it for. But then people right in tell us what they think their best. Their best food apps are. Also, Brian just got back from a trip to Florida and stopped by the fruit and spice Park. Good job. Everyone should go to the fruit and spice Park I think we talked about last week a little bit right our last part but he has a recommendation I might have forgotten to make which is I would recommend bringing something to rinse your hands and face with because you are going to be covered with sweet drippy, sticky mango juice. Not there's anything wrong with that he adds I savored at least 15 Different mangoes and could have tried at least a dozen more. Why not? Why didn't you be I didn't have to go to dinner maybe or maybe they were maybe because maybe he didn't get the super like treatment and they chased him out of there. I'm thinking rapid infusion with mango puree and rum. Keep up the great show Brian oaks. Although you know what I really want to do is I want to take some of those mangoes and infuse the mango chunks in a vacuum with booze because that'd be delicious but we couldn't when we went harvest enough of these mangoes to to do that too, is an excellent recommendation by the way bring you something to wash your hands and face with what I used when I was out was the incessant rainstorm that was pounding us with buckets of water every 10 seconds right? So we had a separate problem and that we couldn't like keep our cameras out because none of us had like you know diving cameras because we were basically tasting mangoes in like three feet of water like we needed like snorkel gear to do our tasting well you know what, I've had this problem so many times you want to take fruit out of a tasting and you don't know what to do so anyone out there who's has his and we need a way to label fruits sharpies don't write on fun, waxy fruits, especially when it's raining and the Sharpie comes off and the Sharpie starts writing so Sharpie I know I love Sharpie Sharpie all love to you and for all of the all of the good times that we've had together but it's ineffective for writing the names on fruits if the weather is an all messed up they need to make a fruit Sharpie then yeah, thank you Anastasia they need to make a fruit Sharpie Are you listening out there people someone either look, I don't want it to be horribly toxic. Like I'm not willing to die to label my fruit. But I need some sort of like fruit label so I can write on it. The other IDI has like what if they had like a special like little like needle thing where you could like almost like this old Dymo like label makers that would punch that tape. But like you could just like quickly like type the letter and it would stencil into the fruit skin. We should just bring whatever that thing is called on any tape you put on come right back off. If it's raining like this like McGee and I were out there the second day when you were driving to Miami. We were trying to write and as we were writing the paper was bleeding off into the The into the earth is a freaking nightmare which, which a meant that we could taste fewer fruits and be is making our job of figuring out what the heck, we ate a lot lot harder. Anyway, I'm glad someone's going into the fruit and spice Park, everyone should go to Miami. If look if any of you guys plan a trip to Miami, you need to go down to South Bay to the homestead area to the fruit and spice Park. And, and then when they tell you that you can't eat the fruit, I don't know, punch him in the face. Don't do that. Don't do that and do whatever you can to get a hold of some of the fruit they usually let you eat the fruit that's fallen on the ground. Brown with the fruit. Two things I've noticed one of the problem with the fruit spice part is that they allow the public in a lot and so they have to be careful about the fruits because otherwise they'd be stripped bare instantaneously. The other problem is is that tropical fruit people are more covetous of their fruit. This has been my experience my relatively small experience as opposed to temperate fruit people. Like you have someone with an orchard fruit or like a pear apple orchard. You know, whatever. You're like, Can I have the fruit to like, take it, take it, otherwise it's gonna fall on the ground and rot. You know what I mean? If they're not commercial, if they're commercial, it's a different story. But these guys are like, they know every member at these guys knew every single mango that was on that tree. And if you took one they're like where that mango. You know what I mean? It's like they're they it's a different it's a different kind of crew. I still haven't figured it quite out yet. Anyway, we will take one more commercial break and then come back and slam through these last couple questions. Call your questions. 27184972128 That's 718-497-2128 cooking issues we live in Brooklyn baby we live in Brooklyn. We make baby baby