Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

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Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

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Well. Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, the host of cooking issues coming to you on the heritage Radio Network. I'm not in the studio. Ha ha we're coming live to you from London Heathrow Airport is a Natasha the hammer Lopez and I are waiting to fly back to New York City. But we're still here live to take all of your cooking related questions. Call in to 718-497-2128 That's 718-497-2128 Now unfortunately, Miss Das is sitting next to me and we can't have two of our cell phones calling in at once. So she's gonna have to just make comments next to me from the from the peanut gallery, but we're gonna try to do the best we can actually start now we're both over here doing a demonstration for rotary evaporation here in London, which is interesting. We had to hang out with other good literary evaporation friend Tony conigliaro, and that was good time. We have some email questions, thankfully. But obviously not the call number calling your questions to 718492128718 Slide seven to one to eight. So Marv Woodhouse from Belfast, UK writes in I'm hoping to get an ISI cream Whipper for Christmas can the same is to be used for co2 and enjoy cartridges I would like to use same unit for infusion and for carbonation. Okay, so first of all, what we're talking about is the you know, the things that you buy to make with cream they're made by isI which is a company out of Austria. Anyway, so they have the ones that are made for soda water, which are you know, the soda siphons and they have the ones that are meant for whipped cream, right? And the main difference between those two is the soda ones have a like a tube first of all, the neck is much smaller, and they have a tube that goes down to the bottom of them so that when you press the little lever to dispense it, that the liquid is forced through the tube and out of the nozzle just like you know, in the Three Stooges that will display in the face of seltzer that kind of thing right? But they both take the exact same cartridges so you can put end to ODE will print cartridges into an into a co2 machine. And you can put, you can put and vice versa they both work. Now I would definitely recommend getting the cream clipper rather than the resinous seltzer one the social one has a much smaller neck so you can't put a lot of things into it as easily as you can into the whipped cream one and you can actually carbonate with that my favorite to carbonate but you can carbonate with the whipped cream with the whipped cream thing the trick is you have to just vent off the excess co2, open it and pour it all out. You can't dispense it like the Three Stooges movie you have to actually sent it and then pour it pour all the carbonated liquid out. Usually you're carbonated with it with a whipped cream maker though where you want to make do is put some put some ice and so it's very very cold. Make sure everything's extremely extremely cold and it's probably going to take two charges you're gonna want to shake even want to and this is in a regular cream maker, you're gonna want to put your first co2 cartridge and shake it up a bit and invented out now you're getting rid of all the air and everything in there that airs with air is your main enemy and carbonation. So one of the main problems I have with carbonating endless bottles is that you can't get all the air out of the headspace so basically, that first charger is really venting all of the air out of the headspace and also getting rid a lot of the stuff that's going to make it fun and the second charger you put on the second co2 Charger is what's really going to get it nice and fizzy nuclear second charger and shake it and let it stand for a couple of minutes for the bubbles to settle down. Slow, slowly slowly vented, unscrew it and pour it out and you should have a delicious carbonated product even in your windscreen wipers. So that is a I would definitely go mark for the whipped cream maker and not the co2. Okay, so we have a second question from Melissa. Melissa actually graduated from Stanford and for those of you out there, Natasha is a Stanford graduate it's the same year as Natasha and so they have against some sort of kindred kindred spirit. But she has a couple of questions one relating to mangoes both she and her fiance are huge mango fans, but she grew up in Malaysia I guess it was you know, they have some good mangoes and those I've never gotten near Malaysia but I hear they have some of their so we'll assume they were good. So they you know, even by the by the boatload everyone loves to mangoes and then all of a sudden, about six years ago, her fiance develops this allergy, the mangoes and and actually I feel I feel for this as well because I was allergic to nothing growing up. And then all of a sudden, when I became about 3031 years old, I developed a an allergy to cherries now that my throat closes up. And I have to go to the hospital and all this it's nightmares and my wife doesn't let me have any more cherries, even though they're my favorite my favorite fruit, I guess, you know, I was being punished for always making fun of other people's allergies. So because I was made fun of other people's allergies. You know, someone said, Hey, how about you become allergic to savory fruit anyway. And interestingly, he became allergic after sitting down and consuming an entire box of mangoes in one sitting sky sounds like he's kind of like me a little bit. The way I did it with cherries is well, first, I had a preposterous number of lobsters at the summer party. And then, you know, I bought a giant bag of cherries to kind of wash down the the lobsters and of course, I ate the whole bag by myself and ended up in the hospital. So I guess there's something too, you know, too much of a good thing. And so her question is, is there any way to neutralize the toxin and mangoes to make them edible for someone who is allergic to them without compromising the integrity of their flavor or texture? Either through some physical cooking method or by adding some kind of neutralizing it? The answer is, it depends. There's basically two different ways that you can be allergic to mangoes, right? The first way and this is the way I hope it is for him that you can be alerted to mangoes and you can be allergic to a chemical which I can never get the name right but it's like you're crucial, which is basically very similar to that where he has a chemical that's in poison ivy, and there's a little bit of that chemical in the out in the mango skin and in the SAP. Right so and then you're gonna get like a contact like you're gonna get a rash basically a dermatitis from touching what just like you would get from poison ivy you couldn't use is if you if you wear gloves, and you peel the mango relatively sickly and don't let the peel get back onto the fruit after you cut it that people who are allergic to that to usual Have you planted like those most people can can have mango. Okay, now there are people though who are legitimately allergic to the mangoes themselves right? And that's closer to the allergy I have with with cherries most fruit allergies basically have to do with proteins that are on their on the fruit in the fruit and somehow they seem to be from the research I've done related to actually pollen allergies and unfortunately there's no way to get rid of those in a raw fruit now certain of these proteins are destroyed by cooking so it looks theoretically with me I could eat cooked cherries but unfortunately I never really liked cooked cherry products I just like washers and I don't feel like experimenting with it and ending up in the hospital and having my wife like you know call me an idiot for for experimenting with the cook cherries and Go to the hospital. But it is theoretically possible that you can cook it and have the allergy go away. Now all this is assuming that it's not like an anaphylactic, like me, I go to the hospital when I eat these things because my throat closes up and I sound like Daffy Duck because you know, I can't breathe anymore. And you end up in hospital but it's not really a full on anaphylactic reaction like my body doesn't shut down. It's just my throat closes up because of the contact with the stuff in my throat. So if it is that you have two basic things, you have to figure out what your what are you allergic to? Is the actual mango? Or is it just this chemical in the skin and then it does cooking make it go away, and that's specifically with mango but if you have a good shot, but there's nothing you're going to be able to do, it's going to make if it is the mango itself to make a raw mango, you know, not not cause a reaction, unfortunately, you know, because I'm sure you know raw mango and a cook mango. They're not the same thing. So Melissa also asks, whether she knows that moustache has worked with Cesare Casella, one of our one of our good friends, Italian chefs from Tuscany's used to be the salt healer. He's a salt Miss salumi now, and he was what the Wizard of beans or something like that. The empresario have been. So you know, he has like these Tuscan beans. He has this salumi, he runs a seminary, Rosie and, you know, up in the Upper West Side of New York, all around good guy. And we like him. And so most was wonder whether mustache had any recommendations because she's setting up a tour to Italy. And you're lucky that Cesare has just started a culinary tours company of Italy, where it takes people from the USA to visit and taste and visit not only just restaurants, but shops and vendors. And if I know tesserae and I do you know, it's going to be an interesting tour. I mean, the man knows your suppliers over there. And he knows, you know, he knows food and he definitely knows Tuscany like that, like the back of his hand. And I don't have his website here, but it's Cesare Casella. And or you can you guys who are, you know, write questions to the radio show and just write the stuff that you're interested in contact info for that. Okay, Suze,

we have a caller, Dave,

we have a caller. Oh, caller, you're on the air. Oh, hi.

How you doing? I just had a quick question. And I'm gonna make it super short, because I'm actually in class as we speak. But I had a question about making bitters.

Okay. Hello. Hey, what's your question on bitters?

I was just curious about the process of making it in your home? Like, where could you find information on it? And like, where to start? Really?

Right. So if you troll, the Futrell, kind of bartenders, forums, and probably on on egullet, there's a load of information on bitters, another excellent sources, some of the old bitters recipes are in the old kind of alcohol handbooks that are available on Google Books like the old hundreds, like those. And, and you can get a lot of those.

Yeah. I was just gonna say, is it better to start with overproof, alcoholic spirits or an Everclear? Or is it better to use something flavorful, it really does depend on the profile you're looking for.

It depends on the profile you're looking for. But most often people start with an overproof product and they get you know, a faster and probably a more complete result with that. And then you can water it down when you're done with most people are starting with an overproof product. You know, one thing I will say that's interesting, a lot of people ask, because, you know, we have a lot of new techniques for infusion. And, you know, I don't like if you use one of the newer techniques, I don't think you're gonna get the same result as you would get with the older technique. Like I say, not better, not worse, just different. So definitely look into the, you know, into some of the older, some of the older recipes if you're trying to achieve an authentic result. I mean, no, John, Derek Gunn was one of the first people to make avid spitters. But I think Abbotts is now maybe commercially available. I don't know. It's maybe the bare Truth has it or not. Also cocktail cocktails, you know, Greg bombs website. He has a lot of information on bitters, because he has a lot of the old recipe books. But it's very simple to do. It just takes time and sourcing of the herbs. And if you're in New York, there's a couple places downtown that have very good herb selections are online. I don't have the websites up my head, where to go most of that most. Everything's available.

Okay, great. I'm actually in New York. So I guess most stuff is readily available. And really there, they say that the flow time is the best way to do it. There's really no way to push it.

Well, it's not the only way. But if you want the actual specific flavors that you would get from those older, older ways of doing it, then I would do it that way. I mean, I haven't experimented so much with straight like actual like, using a similar recipe, for instance, to like an anchor store or an avatar of a show to try and get a fast result using one of my new techniques. The new techniques would I'm sure makes a great result but they would be different numbers. I don't think it's a Matter of better or worse, I think it's just different in what you're shooting at if you're trying to recreate an old recipe and I would do it the old way if you're just interested in your own flavors then by by all means use one of the newer techniques and see whether you come up with something that you like better you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you so much.

No problem Good luck with it goes what happens all right. So you see we have going on here. I have another question someone asked Colin, do you know what is in a front Adrian's product fizzy from his texture? His line now? Front Adria, you know, the famous chef from a bully has a whole line of products called Tech stores, which are kind of new ingredients that are unfortunately called molecular gastronomy, ingredients, you know, by people because they're, you know, a lot of ingredients that are, you know, labeled by reporters and whatnot as molecular gastronomy, even though anyone that knows me knows I did test that term, flaunt he had to test that term. Has some Blumenthal to test that term. Harold McGee detest that term. Why did you plan to test that term? Pretty sure grant, it gets to test that term. I can't. It's very hard to find someone who likes the term molecular gastronomy who speaks English. But that said, that's often how they're labeled. So fizzy is one of these products he has he sells a Mephisto line he sells. He sells an alginate. He sells all this stuff. But fizzy is one that's supposed to be a carbonation kind of thing fizzy, but it's a solid. Now, unfortunately, I haven't actually used it. So the question is, is there's two basic ways that it could could be I haven't used it, I can't say what it is. But there's two basic things could happen. One, it can be similar to a Pop Rocks, and pop rocks. The way you make Pop Rocks is you take sugar, and you hit it till it's molten toes molten sugar, and then you put very high pressure on it, like 8800 to 1000 psi as pounds per square inch of carbon dioxide into it, and basically infuse the co2 at that very high pressure, you then allow it to set into a block, you release it, at which point the candy explodes. Maybe with these little rocks, inside of the rocks are high pressure carbon dioxide, when you put it in your mouth, you melt the candy and pop that high pressure carbon dioxide comes out and hits your tongue. And that's why Pop Rocks is so much sharper in taste than than normal Seltzer, because it's actually quite a high concentration pressure of co2 there. Anyway, that's Pop Rocks. So and you can buy neutral Pop Rocks, there's a company in America called chef rubber that sells them and there's a bunch of people who make kind of blank Pop Rocks, and then you can just mix them into things. Now the other way to get a fizzy effect is by using an acid and base reaction is similar to how kind of Alka Seltzer works or something like that. So you when you're doing that, what you're doing is, you know, the classic one you could mix. Like when you make a kid when you're doing a volcano when if your science project you mix baking soda, which is a base, and vinegar, which is an acid and a foam up, you're supposed to color red, of course, so it looks like a volcano, you add the vinegar performs all of everything, right, this classic acid base, but you can also use that to make things fizzy in your mouth. And so you can use citric acid and then you could use a you could use a base like baking soda, you could use a more neutral base and you arrange them such that they neutralize each other so you don't have a residual base of acid. So it's possible that they're taking an acid and a base and then mixing them into sugar syrup solution and then turning it into granules and then you eat it and it phosphates in your mouth. So I'm not exactly sure what the what the fizzy is but it could be either one of those things it's probably an acid base because a lot of the recipes are fizzy heavy, grinding them up to use them and that wouldn't work with Pop Rocks. But I unfortunately I'm not sure if someone has to send me a container of it and I'll play around and report back so we'll do a commercial break and we'll come back or not commercial break music break I guess but please call your questions to send 1849721282718497212822 issues live from Heathrow gonna have we're gonna have we're gonna have we're gonna have bumped God God everybody All right. Welcome back to Cooking issues. Steve Arnold, your host of cooking issues, calling all your cooking related questions to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128. Now before I come back to answering any questions,

tell you guys a little bit of what I've been doing for the past week, two weeks, three weeks, and apologize a little bit for the fact that we haven't had a lot of posts going up on the bog. Part of the reason is, is you know, mustache and I were trapped in LA traffic. London's a great place, but we were in London, and hotel had no free Wi Fi, not I'm sorry, no Wi Fi at all, the Internet was completely broken. So we had basically no internet access for the past three days, it's kind of weird to think how your life changes these days, maybe even have the internet when I was in college. And, you know, not much on the internet. Now, you know, I'm complaining when I don't have it for for three days. So anyway, so since we last spoke on cookie issues, I've been to Kentucky and I went to a bunch of distilleries in Kentucky. And then we just went to London. But it's been kind of an amazing week. So I think I'll just talk a little bit about that. And usually talks about kind of where I've gone or what I'm doing, but might as well since some of it's pretty interesting. So in in, in London, I've visited with the fashion I visited the Brookdale collection. The Brookdale collection is the largest collection of fruit in in the world. It's in Kent, which is about an hour outside of London by train. And it is like it is nirvana. It is like you know, if I had to pick the closest place to you know, heaven on earth in terms of temperate, temperate climate fruits. This is It's crazy that you first of all, everyone there, which is three people apologize that you know that we went on a Monday because there was no one there. And remember, this is now it's prime Apple season and mustache and I went there for the apples because I visited with Harold and he, I visited you know, about four years ago, three, four years ago, the Geneva New York Apple extension, which is the largest single apple collection of apples in the world, and it was a life changing experience. It was amazing. You know, I got preposterously sick off of apples over the course of two days with McGee wandering through the trees and just eating and spitting, eating and spitting, eating, getting, you know, we became our own cider presses anyway. So at that time, I also decided I wanted to go to the Brookdale which is the English collection. Now the English and the and the Americans, we kind of had a like a friendly rivalry back in the 1800s up to the early early 1900s of kind of who could grow the best apples, you know, who could, who had the Baker was kind of a Victorian area, Victorian era, a lot of people were developing new fruit varieties was really kind of an important thing to do. And it's really kind of the golden era of fruit. And this is when you know, the 1000s and 1000s of varieties really became available. And so I really wanted to come over to England where I am right now and take some of these English varieties in their native setting. And just basically see how the Rodale you know, works. So anyway, so in this fashion, I show up on a Monday to places deserted we saw not one soul, not one. So the entire we were there for five hours eating fruit. And we saw not not one person, a tour bus showed up. It took like three pictures of the outside of the orchard to get back on a tour bus and they walked away and believe those guys these guys missed out on the biggest the coolest thing they possibly could have gone to because it's not turned out. It's not just apples like for me the apples ended up being a sidelight because I've already tasted a bajillion Chilean apples at the Geneva Apple extension in upstate New York. And by the way, you know, New York apples are some of the finest apples in the whole world not to toot our horns, you know, to to. So, you know, we go there, and apples aren't the first thing you come to pears are. And you know, I've never been such a huge fair person. But I go in there, and they have something like 400 500 varieties of hair, a lot of which are still on the tree, it's actually past prime picking time for the pears. But on the tree there still finds its prime eating time for the pears. And the fashion I tried maybe, oh, I don't know, maybe 200 varieties of pears, most of which, you know, at the end, we were just we would split the rows in half and the stash would take the right half, I would take the left half, and we would just eat them. And if they were interesting, we would tell each other about it, but we'll post it on the blog. But suffice it to say that there is a lot more to know about pears than you have ever known If all you've had as a supermarket pair. The range of flavors and textures in pairs is astonishing. Not surprising. Astonishing. We had pears it tasted like rose water. We had we had a whole variety of pairs that didn't even learn about which are pairs that are only cooking pairs. So they never get soft. You can actually these are pairs they can actually be stored a long, long time over winter. be used into spring and they're, they're hard like rocks and they need to be cooked. They don't develop their flavor, or their proper texture until they're cooked until they're cooked. But unlike cooking apples, which are, you know, have similar characteristics, but are basically just tart. Like these ones are useless until they're until they're cooked. And we, we try to couple unfortunately, I can't bring me back to the states to cook them to see what happens. But you know, case rostra we have just an infinite variety of textures and aromas. And so when you read the old books on pomology, which is the fruit study, you know, usually these temperate Fruits like apples and pears and stone fruits, you'll, you'll hear people say how awesome pears are, but you're sitting there as a modern person like pears, who cares about pimping pair? Like a pair, but what's the big deal? And then you really get into it, and you see what the huge, huge, huge differences are. And all of a sudden all the old recipes like the you know, the medieval recipes for cooked pears like chard wardens, famous one, like these ones all make kind of more sense and you kind of want to fry them with the actual with the actual pair now and you know, four or five years ago when I became infatuated with the idea of all these apples and flavors that we've lost, I didn't even consider the pear and now I'm just as hyped on pears as I am on Apples. But that's not all this farm has. I mean this farm is acres and acres where they basically let you roam free to have sign to say don't walk off the path and go into the orchards but I mean come on that's just there I think for liability reasons because they have huge rabbit holes by the way that I mentioned this place was full of game this game everywhere. There's rabbits. There was like pheasant there was like It's like if you like were allowed to just go on that land. And like with a shotgun and a steal, you would never have to leave today of all the game all the fruit you could distill I mean, it's just it's crazy. Anyway, so they have a huge plum orchard with several 100 varieties of plum. Unfortunately as I said earlier in the program I'm allergic to cherries, but maybe Natasha can go back during cherry season because they have hundreds of varieties of cherry and they specialize mainly in sweet cherries. Kent is interesting as a group they specialize mainly not in cider apples but they have cider apples but they specialize mainly in non cider apple cider apples are apples that are too tannic to use by themselves are very good for for cider, and can't local ciders are actually made with sweeter sweet apples sweet apples and cooking apples not with tannic cider apples. It's the West Country. ciders in the UK that are famous for their very, very tannic apples, small capitals that they use in their cider, so can't decide or actually traditionally use it. So a lot of people in this country, especially now that were live in the US, they think that you're topping out if you're using non cider varieties for your cider, but it turns out that in certain places, they can't use non sighted varieties of apples. So these but these guys have cider varieties, sweet varieties, they also have a huge nut for us with like a billion different kinds of hazelnut I mean, the place is nuts. I mean, I wish I could have spent the fashion I have a huge gastrointestinal problems as a result of being there because you know, we provide you know, like I said, you know, at least one or 200 varieties of parents because you know, visually an apples we had some plums even though there were well past prime and don't bother with a plump plump last prime is that is no fun. And then we went back to their little cider shop and drank ciders. But if you're in one, you know, skip the Tower of London, skip anything and go get on a train, go to fabric ham, which is Old Town where it is. And it go to the Brookdale and go there in fruit season and have one of the most miraculous fruit experiences you're ever going to have in your entire life. A completely lifetime operation. Hey, Dave, we have a caller. We have a caller. Hey, caller, you're on the air.

Great. My name is Corbin. I'm from San Diego. And I had a question about reproducing a barbecue pulled pork using cvwd. There are a couple things I liked about barbecue pulled pork one is the smoky flavor. The other is like the nice crust bark that you get on the outside. And I know cvwd is a good way to control the temperature and make it nice and tender. But how can I get the smoke and the bark after or before using subi?

Yeah, it's tough. There's a couple problems. One is that when you use you need at least with the lower temperatures that are associated with soothing, you're not going to get the same texture. So if you don't know if you've done it before, but when you do like a short rib when you're cooking sugi you'll notice that the connective tissue gets soft, but it doesn't render out right so the fibers never get kind of stringy the way that they get in a traditional in a traditional brace on traditional braids or a barbecue. The connective tissue is going to melt out and the fibers and the meat are going to basically going to be lubricated by that connective tissue. That's why the meat without connective tissue never good and barbecue right so When you're doing it in suevey, this stuff turns soft, but it doesn't render out. And that's why one of the interesting things about Tsugi, like shorthand, for instance, is that you can slice it unlike normal thing, which is going to break apart because the fibers are totally broken apart. So the texture is a little bit, a little bit. And so it's not I think, on a pole the same way that texturize that that normal barbecue American way of May I assume pork, right pulled pork is going to work. The other thing is, is that is that the outside crust mean, what you one way you could do it mean, the smoke is going to be tough, you need smoke, right. And I'm assuming that you know that there are some high quality smoke applications that you can put on. Or you could do a cold smoke kind of situation, but it doesn't taste quite the same as something that's smoked, doesn't taste the same as something that has the smoke flavor from barbecuing it from being barred from being made into barbecue. They don't, to me, they don't taste quite the same. Well, they don't know the chemistry of why that's the case. But you could apply a smoke, there are some very high quality smoke products that taste a whole whole lot better than liquid smoke. But still, people don't like to do it. Because you're basically applying a smoke flavor to something rather than smoking. And naturally, well, you could, you could like put cold smoke, or even hot smoke after the shooting step or after the low temps step. But you're still going to need if you want that that that surface on the outside, you're going to need to apply some dry heat to it to actually get some of the moisture out of it. Now you can apply that with a higher higher temperature than you were doing when you're making normal barbecue. And that would allow you to keep the inside still have the advantage in low temp. But we know we're having the outside dry out a little bit. But it's going to be totally different. Because then into pain, that same surface that you would get you want to have a kind of the brownie happens for a long time over low temp, and it's not going to provide the same result. Because in order to keep the low temperature result on the inside, you're gonna need to put it like in a 500 degree like grill or oven or something that to really get the outside to crisp up on you and get it to firm up without overdoing the inside. It's not going to be exactly the same result. It will still be delicious. Right? But I don't think it's going to be the same result. Is that makes sense? Or no?

Yeah, so I might get a different product, but I could still get something that's delicious and maybe approximates barbecue. Yeah, that's

yeah, it's gonna be totally different. But yeah, low temp cook. And you can either put something smoking in the bag, or you can smoke it a little bit afterwards or get a real like put some chips or something to make your grill real smoky. Get your grill hot as hell put it in there. Not touching the fire maybe but like away from the hot as hell. And then crisp up the outside and and get some smoke flavor in it. That way you can make a delicious product. I don't think it's going to be the same as like regular barbecue. Delicious, but different. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. Great. Yeah. So I called a couple of weeks ago and I had some questions about I bought a used lab circulator. So I'm gonna I'm gonna try it out. I got some good advice last time. And I think I got some good advice this time. So I'll let you know how it goes. Yeah, let us know how it goes. And hopefully it works out for you.

I think it will. Great. Thank you. All right, thanks. All right. We're gonna go to our 32nd commercial break, calling your questions to 718-497-2128 That's 718-497-2128 cooking issues live from Heathrow Airport.

When I move like this gotta move like this Welcome back to Cooking issues is Dave Arnold was fixing issues calling your questions 27184972128. That's 718-497-2128 on the heritage Radio Network coming to you live today from Heathrow Airport in London where Anastasia the hammer and I are waiting to get back to New York City. So we have a couple of more questions here. One is Collin writes in and he's interested in buying quinine sulfate, and he says he's having some problems getting quinine sulfate. Now quinine is the The product and tonic water that gives it its characteristic bitterness. It's also what is the reason it was there originally as quinine, which comes from a bark by the way, control and I think is how it's pronounced. So I can never remember this this quinine is an anti malarial right, which is why you take it if you're going to go to India to a British, your British officer in the 1800s. You don't want to get malaria, you drink your quinine. They eventually made this tonic out of it, and they mix it with gin and they have it now, the amount of quinine in Aquinas, so the cool properties like it's it's phosphorescent. So in clubs. If you go to a club and a black light hits it, it lights up, it's kind of cool. Anyway. So, quinine isn't in the tonic water. Although that is the characteristic flavor, the bitterness flavor of quinine is not there in an Nef of the quantity to stop you from getting malaria. So if you're, you know, don't think you're going to cure your malaria with tonic water, right. In fact, the doses that you need for, for for medicinal reasons are much higher, I think at least two times higher. The in the way that we normally put it into a drink is by using a derivative assault of chronic quinine sulfate. And you can buy this stuff, but you have to be incredibly careful when you buy it because an overdose of quinine is a bad thing. It causes disease known as syncretism, it's, it's no good yet to be careful. Until recently, you could just go in and buy it at a pharmacy because people will take it for leg cramps, but now it's considered a prescription medication. So there's two ways you can do it, you can get a doctor friend to write you a prescription for quinine, you know, because you say, Oh, I have terrible leg cramps, and they'll prescribe you some quinine, you can get quinine and do it that way. Or, that may or may not be fraud, in which case, I don't recommend it. But the you know, the other way is you go to a lab supply house and you buy quinine sulfate, and you have to buy the USP grade, which is basically a cuticle is considered okay for consumption, and you buy a, you buy a little, little vial of it. And stuff I bought, I bought from a company called spectrum chemical, and I bought their USP grade of quinine sulfate. And you have to be extremely careful with the client. So I'll say, you're gonna want to be using on the order of what the legal limit for tonic water is less than 83 parts per million, which is way more bitter than you actually want it to be. So you want the best way to use quinine is, first of all, don't let other people handle it, you know, keep it safe. So people don't just you know, use it like they would sugar cream or acid or something like that. And then make a solution of quinine in water, or an alcohol is actually better that you keep there and then make use it as kind of a bittering agent, but you got it you want to be careful not just for a safety reason, but also quinine can become, it'll go from being not bitter enough to being very much to better extremely bitter, with very small additions, because it tastes at least in my mind seems to be cumulative. So you know, a little bit of tonic water, a little bit of quinine, okay, a little more, okay, a little more, you know, okay, and another the next shot and you're like, boom, it's rolling, It's too bitter. So, I would just say, you know, be careful with it, but you can get it it's not cheap. I paid $80 for, you know, a little vial of it. But that vial was last few years because it takes such a small amount of the quinine to to better up your your tonic water. And then of course, you know the for the rest of your quinine work for your tonic, you're either going to want to use an acid mix, which a which lime acid to mimic the flavor of limes, which I recommend would be two parts of citric acid, which is the which is the acids and lemons one part malic acid, which is the acid from wines, and a pinch of succinic acid cynic is really going to give you the characteristic authentic lime taste. And that one you can only get from chemical supply houses like spectrum again, that's where I got my USP, but you can do a fairly again, be careful with that was this really nasty if you had too much, but the citric and malic acid you can get from a homebrew supply shop, it's a really good way to do it. Otherwise, just make your tonic water with the clarified lime juice. Which you know we have our blogs like cooking issues.com and look up clarification we have a way to clarify lime juice and you can make a ton of water with that. And that is delicious. Carbonated with gin. Colin also asked about he just got a big block of pizza. And he's wanting a Pete as most of you might know, they roast malt with Pete when they're going to do Scotch is more or less PD depending on which Scotch is and is that yeah, the characteristic flavor so he wants to use Pete maybe distilled Pete or get some essential oils out of it. But my impression is that you don't want to use the P directly and if a P is good for making P flavor when it's being earned. So I would I would definitely I would definitely use the p you can smoke something with a pizza Some peed on the on the grill. And then and then let the flavor transfer over to your food from from Roasting from, you know, using the peat to burn it. I've never actually used it, but it's something I would definitely, definitely love to do. I'm kind of like secretly fascinated with peat, and also with bog mummies and

bogs. Well, it appears very petite. And it's very acidic conditions because you're breaking down spagna moss in there, and it releases chemicals and acidity down there that basically, will, can, you know, so human beings back in the days, you know, Drew days and whatnot, that you would have these people who want to raise another human sacrifice, execution, whatever killed in front of these pods, and they're preserved for 1000s of years very well. So I kind of have a secret fascination, I guess not so secret anymore with bog bodies. But another interesting thing about pugs that I'm fascinated with this idea of bog butter, so you have this strange fat deposits and bogs, called bog butter. And then I believe, although I can't verify this, and some people would actually put fat into bogs to preserve them. And then you could use them like a long, long, long, long, long, long time. I always find some ancient stash of Og motor and then and then cook with it. But you know, I don't think that that's going to happen but speaking of things that I've always wanted to have happen and just did happen, is that it is very difficult to get gamebirds to eat unless you are a hunter because you cannot hunt me and it's partially in the United States. So So anyway, so it's very difficult to get birds like Woodcock we have to get it shipped from Scotland you cost an arm and leg grouse. And so grass no grouse would kill which is kind of like a tiny duck which in which is kind of another kind of small duck knife all these birds he's great birds that you have heard about my whole life. He's great gamebirds and I've never had them before and went two nights in a row to a restaurant here in London called Hicks. And the first night they had grouse on the menu which I instantly ordered I got to last one as almost beat the crap out of someone else so that I can make sure that I got this last grouse because I wasn't gonna leave London without having it and then by chance it's delicious by the way it was game D and unlike any other bird I've ever had anyone says he was wild grasses just different way that it is you know what I mean? And then he says you know may contain shot if you need it. And the next day, we went back when me and the person apologize for you know, make us go to the same restaurant twice in a row, but their menu was almost completely changed and I must hit a really good menu change. And they had a game feast again bird feast with Woodcock kill wigeon and snipe at, I just went, I went, I went crazy. First of all, woodcock, you know, the what they say about Woodcock and it's one of these things with a really long beak is that it takes off and as it takes off, it poops out everything that is in testing so it's not basically eviscerate all the drugs are still on the inside and Woodcock and they cook it and and they serve it to you and it's got this big, long beak and the head still on hold things basically entirely hold and and all for birth. Let's just put it this way. They're a little bit bloody. I did spit some shot out onto the plates or in the middle of it. This gives you an idea what the meals like so so anyway, so I'm there with these two friends of mine from 69 COVID Row me me and Stuart Estancia they're there and maybe it's actually I guess not for Susan Cooper co she works with Amanda club. we've recapped by in the US there's a fake of Anna club in the US. It's not really the real rom a real fan club can't come to us because I'm barbecue. But anyway, I'm sitting there. And I'm eating these birds. Like literally there's blood from the birds are like all over my hands. Looking over having a piece of heart from the Woodcock, like stuff on my knuckle. You know, I'm looking across the table and I'm sure I've got all of my face from the everyone's completely horrified. But and I said look, you know, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, but I've never had a chance to eat cheeseburgers before and you know, you really need to pick them up and it's really not like meat and things you know, and I apologize for you know, making such a mess of it. But you know, that's kind of that's what it is. Cuz I'm done. I apologize everyone for this horrific carnage scene I'm sure the entire restaurant was repulsed. And, and as the guy said, played away, even so how was the head and miss that guy just apologize for making and other what it means like well, you're supposed to split the head of the Woodcock open and suck the brains out. And after all that they sit there and I shoved the knife through the head of the Woodcock and split it in half and then suck the brains out. So I think that was kind of the last nail in the coffin of decency for the but it was a chance that you know I've never had before but I will say that we'll leave you with is that meal I had right after the stash and I had just eaten, you know several hundreds of varieties of fruit. So it was it was a gastrointestinal extravaganza that day let's just say I had we had you know about three quarters full up with with mango fruit parts and then we stuffed it down with the salad with with our gamebirds and then of course I hadn't have dessert because it's me. And since I was in England and going full traditional, I had of course, the famous putting spot and this has been cooking issues live from Heathrow London some back to collect most of the next week when we'll be back in New York City. Don't know supposed to be