Hello, everybody, and welcome to a brand new series on heritage radio network called the culinary call sheet where we give a peek into the back kitchen of culinary media. I'm your host, April Jones,

and I'm your co host, Darren bresnitz. Part of why we started the show was to offer an unofficial mentorship for anyone who's interested in learning about all aspects of food and video, whether that's TV, social media online, or just something you want to do for fun.

Absolutely what was once niche or a little silly, as I'm sure you remember, Darren, when we started out, this man has now become such a massive playing field for so many creatives using food as the medium.

It's something that has driven us professionally and personally, for so many years. What excites me the most about this show is that we're going to sit down with some of the industry leaders to hear how they made it and what drew them into this industry.

With 20 years in the culinary production game ourselves. We're hoping we can give through these conversations an insider's view into personal stories from the field, as well as an in depth behind the scenes look into some of the most popular food programming. In today's evolving culinary media landscape.

We'll be covering everything from how to style your food, to how to license IP, to developing your own ideas, and some tips from the masters of how to host your own show.

Yeah, it's a little bit of conversation, how to and how do you do the things that you do in color media, which I'm so excited about? I love so many of the guests that are coming on this season. We have talent from Food Network from Vice media eater refinery 29,

we've met some of the best people in the world both in front of and behind the camera. And we're bringing them all together to share their stories, their delicious adventure and their unique journey into this crazy world.

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Hello, you're listening to cooking issues on the heritage Radio Network coming to you live every tuesday from 12 to 1245. I am Dave Arnold, the host of cooking issues a show where you call in and ask all sorts of cooking related questions whether technical or not. Today I'm in the studio with Natasha Lopez's cooking, cooking issues, own hammer and special guests. We're very excited to have Geoffrey Stein garden, one of the great writers on food of all times the food critic of Vogue and personal friend of mine. Hi, Jeffrey, thanks for coming.

Hi, Dave. Hi, Natasha.

So actually, we have some email questions in while we're waiting for oh, by the way, the number to call 71849721287184972128. Don't miss this opportunity to call in and ask Jeffrey a question. We had some email questions that came in kind of, you know, stirring things up a little bit. Greg wants to know, I'm pretty sure Jeffrey can't answer this, but for contractual reasons, I guess. But he has to ask really? How seriously do you take Iron Chef America, it seems like this is really just a faux competition. And it's a great way to get publicity for great regional chef cooking more than national for for more national exposure. What is your response? You don't have to answer this if you don't want to,

Oh, I'd love to answer the perfect. I take it seriously and I found out about chefs. But by being a judge the I almost never really light into a chef from outside of New York because they are usually a hero in their hometown. The last thing they need is to to be on the show and have their reputation destroyed. The only people I'm really mean to are the iron chef's when they but you know when they do something that's not not particularly good, or really awful, or disgusting. And people from out of town obviously are looking for national publicity. And the good ones like David Kinch, for example. David told me that after his appearance on Iron Chef, he won a bother he's never had an empty seat in his restaurant, which is, as you may know, in a very remote place and Silicon Valley. I can't even remember the name of the Los Gatos to the Mountain View or one of those in

Los Gatos, isn't it? Isn't it Los Gatos? But it's only remote to Jeffrey because he lives in New York and then was in Southern California. So he doesn't believe in that Northern California. I know

so you're like Northern California but this was in in between also Los Gatos means the cats

doesn't bode well reasons

why anyone should live in a town called the cat.

That's, by the way, on a personal note, I've known Jeff for many years, and he does take this sort of thing very seriously. There's, there's very little about food that he does not take. Seriously. That has been my been my experience. We have two callers, apparently. So rather than make them wait, why don't we? Why don't we take one of them?

Hello, hey, I have a question. I want to know, like food myth. You know, people say you can't eat oysters without a month doesn't have an R in it. And you know, white wine with fish. I was wondering if you could, like dispel some of I mean, including that oyster one dispel or confirm some of these food myths that my generation grew up with.

I don't know what generation yours is. Actually, you sound familiar.

I think I recognize that voice. I believe that's the one and only Patrick Martin's but

I figured I could call in rather than walking across the street.

Well, actually, the whole idea of oysters in a month with our is only that that is not the greatest thing to have oysters in. From warm water. That's why I'm always a little suspicious of the Gulf oysters. And the Gulf oysters are also I mean, before the oil spill in everything, they were the only ones that used to possibly given the ability to contain Vibrio. And

right, which is why they're subjected to that ultra high pastures ultra high pressure pasteurization technique, which I've never tasted. Whether they're any good or not. After that's been done, you know where they put it under. I've

never touched it at all. But why bother when you're gonna have real oysters? Yeah, that's true. It's true. No, no. As for wild wild fish, no, I that's also and and. Yeah, you know why everyone doesn't generally go with steak. I mean, it's generally too weak, but do Soph. But red wine goes with fish. We know that, Patrick? Yeah.

They've cut him off. So he can no longer reply to us, but I'm sure he's agreeing.

Well, I wonder whether he knows any. Or wives tales still regarding pig gels, because I just ordered a pig gel from him. Really? I'm

sure that'll go with with many different things depending on how you cook it. Right. Are you going to cure it? Are you going to cook it? Did cure? Oh, yeah.

But only for a short time. I'm going to ask you got the recipe from Carlo at the burgers.

Oh, nice. All right. Well,

they have a very fun chef.

You'll have to invite me to try some Do we still have that second caller on the line? So yes. Hello. Hello.

Hi. How are you guys doing? Well, doing well. Excellent. So I actually have sort of continuing that the non technical question theme today. young chefs and aspiring Somali A's are always sort of admonish to develop and expand their palates. I figured you guys and Mr. Sang garden would be a great place to start with. What does that mean? How do you go about developing your palate? Is that an active process? Is that something that just develops over a lifetime of work?

You happen to hit one of Geoffrey's big pet peeves about people that talk about food in general is that they haven't eaten enough so I'm gonna give it to Jeffrey.

But I remember there was a young man who was just graduating from high school he wanted to be a food writer or a chef. And it turned out to he was coach he had grown up kosher and I bet he kept on wanting to know what book to read or write and I told him the main thing is just eat everything you can I mean, you've eaten so little in your life and but it also kind of helps to eat new things with people who know so for example, if you go to Italy for the first time abroad and you're eating food you've never had before where you're you've only had an America then it kind of pays to eat but the native under the native who knows about you know what he or she is doing to just so you can get a sense for what you're looking for. Yeah, there's also but all of us have about the same taste buds. I mean, there are super tasters but don't have to worry too much about them. But you develop your, your sense of taste or your your ability to distinguish I think, by putting words on it, and therefore all those tastes words. sounds so bad, so protect well the ones that are too abstract are obviously too pretentious. But tastebuds can be very, very useful. And then finally the in the, in the introduction to my first book, I described to tell I became a perfect omnivore by undergoing an intense program that I had devised myself and wrote, and it was I wanted to rid myself of all preferences, positive and negative. So, for example, whenever I would go to a restaurant a good restaurant, I would order only things I didn't like, or that I thought I didn't like. By the end of six months or a year, I became a perfect omnivore with the exception of an insect. I'd never gotten used to eating and search and desserts in Indian restaurants.

And it's a tough one. What about not to

doubt it? That was easy. But later about a year later, I did become an absolutely perfect omnivore by by eating some really delicious top bamboo worms, deep fried bamboo wars or Thailand or like french fries. That just as long as you don't look that little face on the end, and but and I was in India, I was in Punjab, and I had some home cooked meals and those desserts were just delicious. Were made right.

So you've come to terms with the aptly named barfi? Oh, yes, yeah. Okay. But you know, this advice from Jeffrey, I think, really, you should take this to heart I think to become a critical cook or a critical leader. Even if you don't like something, it's wise to eat enough of it so that you can at least distinguish what's going on. Even if you can't make yourself like it as Jeffrey was able to. I think we have another caller Yes, you do. All right.

Hi, hello, my name. Hi, this is Matthew. I'm actually calling me from the Los Angeles International Airport getting ready to take a flight but I didn't want to miss the opportunity to ask you this question. Where are you going? We're going to Sacramento today.

We're really getting out of that California. dreamin

Sacramento is a really bad food city, by the way, that's a whole other subject will allow

you but you know, there's a there's a very good sushi to take very good sushi played a show in Los Angeles. And I'm not one of those who thinks that Los Angeles is is overflowing with good sushi places. But there's sushi Mori, and he grows his own rice near Sacramento. I really, yeah. So there's an example of a good way to think about Sacramento.

Since you're in the airport, though. Well, let me get to your question before they make you get on your airplane. You got

it. I know that you've been a guest judge on Iron Chef quite frequently. Yes. And my question is, given how much they do and the very narrow time period they have to cook, and all the shortcuts they have to take, how good is the food? Really? How does it compare to say a really good first class restaurant in New York or Los Angeles?

I was surprised at how good the food was. Good. Obviously, it's not always good. But almost all the time the actual owner chefs. I mean, I was naturally I was I was skeptical about it all. The main three iron chefs are and also Michael Simon, you really want to eat but they're cooking and get over most of the dishes that they're cooking. And a lot of the challenges to know I'm trying to think of it this is yuppie food. But you have to understand that it's Mary Sue and Ben Susan and then maybe only one other. Go to other two other coaches that I've seen, have actually cooked that what you might call it old fashioned food. Food that's extremely good, but it's not colorful. It's not in small pieces. It's not intentionally flavored. It's purple. You might call it come from food. That doesn't go so well. An Iron Chef. Did they win?

No, they lost but they probably should have won. But their food was very good. I think it may have been my fault. Actually. I feel bad because they're very good coach and their food is just so good to eat. It doesn't

bother to surprise you. It doesn't astound you that It's well, so anyway, that's what I have to say it. But the food can be very good. But as I say it is yucky food. The food that is made to kind of surprise you combinations you've never had before it's it's very hard to judge combinations you've never had before is for example, why did you frame but when he was a challenger, he did a fabulous job until dessert. Right? And then there was a combination. There was a smear of, by the way, who's Dave's brother?

And I was at the taping for this. I have some hard feelings about this. So yes,

and it was a puppet in the desert. There was a smear of chocolate and a smear of licorice.

First of all, Jeffrey hates this sort of brushwork on a plate, he has a personal bias against it, he actually thinks it's evil,

no actually did not have a personal bias, then I do have personal values now. Only because you have to work very hard to get that stuff off the plate into your mouth. And if it's really good, why do you have to do that? You know,

and the thing on this desert was a coffee was the coffee flavored couscous, or is that not in the desert? It's been a long time since I had but it was between Mario Batali and my brother in law wildly differing, and I'm sure I've tasted none of it. I'm sure that Mario's food was delicious, right? A while he had attempted a much more kind of a mental thing a text a textual tasting of tilapia, which is a vile, vile, vile fish. Mario I think made the smart play which is, you know, cover the tilapia with all sorts of flavorful stuff. And while he, I think, took the harder and I guess, in the end, less successful route of trying to work with the fish itself, what do you what are your thoughts?

I would agree with you if you were correct.

Man in my

story, and my mental is growing because you don't actually score till the end while he was winning by a hair because Mario is very hard to beat. I mean, he so he knows how to do I have Chef right or No, he's not honored anymore. She's probably too rich. And Maria was fantastic. But and also, but I also very inventive too. So but it wasn't as though Mario that you know, took a cubic cubic centimeter of tilapia and covered with spaghetti or something like two cubic centimeters. Tilapia is evil fish. Very bad food. But in any event,

let's get to the nitty gritty remember how they kill some live tilapia on that, and I believe Mario used one of the live tilapia that was killed, served it to the other judge, and she found it inedible because it was too tough. And then said that it wasn't Mario's fault. It was the fish's fault. This was cut from the earring. But basically, she got served a piece of basically inedible tilapia and how did that not get put into the scoring? Do you remember this?

I'm sure it was. My story, however, didn't involve her tough fish. Because I only know that it was tough, right? And I actually asked her for a piece of she'd give it to you. I

don't remember whether she gave I don't remember that. But as I was

saying, to her while he was not marked out for anything else he did his food was sort of about compared to most of his food conventional and delicious. I mean, after. But after all, he worked at it. very successfully, John George, I mean, while he knows how to cook, many kinds of food, but it was only to dessert. No one likes to dessert. So but you know, I guess he got way marked off because of that. It was only the dessert table.

All right. Well, well, before we go to our first commercial break, I will answer one more. One more take away. I'll take the color and then after the commercial break, I'll answer an email question about purging clams. All right color. Hello. Hello. Hi. What is your question?

Oh, great. I'm on the air. Yeah. Excellent. I have a souffle related question. So I'm a private chef. And my main client loves it when I make a souffle problem with a souffle you have to start it and finish it when you're going to serve it. So I've been trying to think of ways of pre making it. One idea I had which I tried and failed last night was to use an ISI thermo with and I just wanted to pick your brain it didn't. Didn't seem to work I put about into a pint size isI Whipper about four egg egg whites, and it just didn't foam up. I found it with two nitrous oxide containers and it just it didn't do anything. Well,

did you get fired? Do you get one fired?

That's Jeffery worry because he doesn't like the whole egg white egg white foam thing. Most of the time when your phone Are you saying that? Yeah, I'm saying you wouldn't like just a straight egg white egg white foam and have an ISA Oh, he didn't serve it to his testing. He didn't serve it to his client. Oh, right. You didn't serve it to Clinton? I definitely didn't. I've never farmed directly egg whites and an ISI of you, Jeffrey eggwhites tried to do it directly. Yes, I've

tried it. Without success or no to thought I didn't spend enough time on.

Most people who do pre made souffles use a stabilizer of some sort like a Carageenan to stabilize the foam. I think they make it somewhat traditionally and then stabilize it and and then cut it into Pucks and then bake it and rises up. I can think of cuisine Solutions has a commercial preparation based on that uses this and I believe based on karagin and xanthan gum along with the regular base for a souffle, have you done experiments with pre made souffles, Jeffery at all.

Now what exactly pre made I remember a long time ago, and I wish that I could remember the details, but I'd probably have them somewhere in my notes. It was a restaurant in Paris i There is a restaurant in Paris, that called La rager law. It was the first of the cheap Bistro. The GPS grows with excellent young chefs, maybe 10 years ago and one thing he was famous for was his Grand Marquis souffles. And I was in the kitchen watching him. And he showed me how during the baking the souffle would rise to the top. And then he opened the oven door and it would sink and then he'd shut the oven door again and it would rise. But it would rise again, by another word it was not so delicate that you had to kind of you know not even talk loud around, right. And I can't remember the formula, but I'm sure there was no so called molecular so called gastronomy,

right. The awful term. Well, souffle is basically this you take and you make a base that's somewhat pre aerated, right, and then you bake it so that it inflates by by created steam and by the bubbles that are inside expanding are actually both when it gets hot enough it sets and if you're good at it, the inside stays custody and delicious. So the way to make it stick around for a long time is to somehow set that initial base with something that when it's heated will release itself and allow itself to expand. So things like I've never experimented things like gelatin although gelatins not freeze thaw stable things like Carageenan that are going to melt once they get up above about 120 degrees which is really below a Fahrenheit which is below or 140 if I have to look it up which is below where the maximum expansion this thing takes place. So you want to use a thermally reversible gelling or stabilizing agent or a combination of them that will allow you to get the rise that you want after this stuff remelt but will gel up at a lower temperature I don't have a particular recipe but that's the that's the tactic I would take that makes sense yeah, absolutely. All right. Thank you so much for your call. Do we have to go to a break or we have time we have to go right we have to go to a commercial break but please call in 71849721287184972128 for the great Jeffrey Stein garden remember he pulls no punches

if you're getting down we're gonna have we're gonna have gonna have God All right gotta read right. Have a good day

Hello This is Dave Arnold, you're listening to cooking issues on the heritage Radio Network calling with your questions for Jeffrey Stein garden at 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128 And before we get on to our next caller, we had a question come in about purging clams beforehand presumably to get the sand out this comes from Adam Lazar IK and He's a chef down in Philadelphia and he wants to know whether any of these purging methods really work saltwater, freshwater, cornmeal etc I would not purge of clam and freshwater because they are the ones we usually get the hardshell clams are there seawater animals, I know from experience that if you put a clam in flavored water that like for instance, bacon, bacon and onion soup that has the same amount of salt and as the ocean that they will open up eat that and get flavored like delicious bacon onion soup, because this is something that I've done and then you eat them rather than taste like bacon onion soup. So I know I know that works the corn meal, presumably is to get them to start eating. I don't know whether there's any truth to whether the corn meal it really makes them eat. I don't know why it would be corn meal, let's say and not flour or something else like that. Presumably some of the starch from the cornmeal is going to dissolve and make them make them eat it whereas the rest sinks to the bottom. Maybe that's why cornmeal but I wasn't able to find any specific studies but the premise behind putting cornmeal in the clams is to get the clams to start to start eating.

The What about snails?

I try getting snails to eat Rosemary wants to purge them out in the old Spanish style. I was not successful, they died and smell god awful. And my wife basically forbade me from ever running experiment on snails in the bathroom again,

I would do it Oh, don't do it in the bathroom. Do it in the bedroom.

Yeah, well, I think that might get me an even more even more trouble. That

there certainly it's a you. In the end. You have a classic style of paleo. from Valencia. You purge the snails did not just for a Dave for a whole period of time on herbs so that they taste like rosemary. And I've never tried to I believe it.

I've tried it unsuccessfully and my friend Johnny Hasini. And I in London tried to fatten snails on milk also with only marginal success. That's an old Roman technique. So I have not had much luck with

your theory that the Romans and the and the Spanish are lying. No, it's my theory that I'm bad at it. How about Johnny?

He's bad, too. Yes, for both both both bad at it, you know, I guess it takes more than a tech guy and a three star pastry chef to fatness now at least to try and relearn how to do it. I'll try it with you some time if you'd like you want to try

the pub and I live to half the time and to San Diego. Every once in a while your garden would be filled with snails every leaf would be about what have a snail on me. So I was going to eat them. But I had to do research first down the genus and everything and on whether there was going to be any poison involved. And by the time I did, and then I started waiting for the next snail infestation there was no more styles.

I happened to have a copy because I visited a snail farm. You know just north of Tuscany a copy of a book on snail farming that hat it deals with most of the famous European snail varieties. It's written from an Italian viewpoint but translated into wretched English so I can read it. And we will go over the book together and see whether we can learn anything interesting about feeding snails.

But finally, I was told that these snails were the same as the snails in Burgundy, France and that there was no reason not to eat them can do an article if there ever I didn't know that the Italians ate land snails.

Yep, yeah, I went and picked a whole bunch. They they had a special Etruscan variety that still grown in very small quantity at this farm called like Chocula. That's a way up in or however you say snail in Italian. And yeah, and I went and go went to pick them the varieties called rugged, rugged tillow Something like that. That round like a pinwheel thing, and they're good. But they're smaller than the bigger ones that you get in Burgundy. They're a lot smaller snail but they were they were good. They tasted good. Do we have a color and we had a color

I got a question about avocado puree. All right. Pit thing that's just bogus putting the pit in your avocado puree Correct. Never worked for me at all. Yeah, great. Lime juice is what I currently use about three quarters of the lime to one avocado. Sometimes it comes up just too acidic for me. Is there anything else I can use to combat oxidation other than citrus juice,

ascorbic acid straight ascorbic acid vitamin C from the from the So what am I talking about the pharmacy, whatever, make sure it doesn't have rose hip and stuff and just straight ascorbic acid vitamin C has a lot more antioxidant power, and a lot less of that acid taste than using a lime which is a mixture of ascorbic acid, malic acid, citric acid and a pinch of succinic acid. So the scorebig acid alone is going to work sodium, sodium meta bisulfite, is that correct? Jeffrey? So the meta bisulfite also works or packing in an actual, you know, a bag that's oxygen proof current plastic wraps are not are not very good.

No, not at all properly. But

also remember that alone of all the common citrus, limes are the most acidic. Why would you use lime

as mean as opposed to lemon or Yeah, yeah.

Use it and some other things thinking that more is better. But

user can be very acidic.

It's not the as it's not a straight acid, it's not the pH that's preserving it. It's the ascorbic acid itself, which is, which is an anti oxidant that is actually stopping the brownie from happening. So it's not it's not really that you need to make it more acidic. So you might go for less acid fruit with a higher ascorbic acid balanced like lemon, or just use straight vitamin C. And a lot of people you know, when they go out to buy vitamin C, they mistakenly buy citric acid. And citric acid isn't near the doesn't have near the antioxidant power that ascorbic acid vitamin C does.

If you just mash up a vitamin C pill,

I've never done that, because I think they have all sorts of other things to make it into a pill form, like, you know, like little bits of calcium and whatnot. Chalk and all this stuff. I buy the Straight, straight powder 100% Vitamin C powder. But I hope this answers your question. Thank you. And we have another caller apparently for coming in. Hello. Hello, hi, you're on the air.

Hey, they love the show. My name is Jason Cole from Brooklyn. Calling I have a question I'm into juicing and making smoothies and stuff like that. And I've had terrible experiences in the past picking out juicers and blenders and I was leaning towards getting one of the one of the expensive blenders that I've seen on the internet or on TV and I was wondering if you have any suggestions on what would be the best, the best method to go about picking out a blender.

I will start by saying this. Unfortunately, there is no single thing that will juice all things. Well. It depends on what you want to juice and what kind of results you want. If the question is should I get a Vita prep? The answer is undoubtedly Yes. Right Jeffrey or no? Yeah, I mean, the Vita prep is an excellent piece of equipment, right? It's not a juicer though. You know, I will get a Champion juicer for doing things like apples and carrots. And I will get a Vita prep for blending things when the ultimate juicer is a Vita prep a bunch of enzymes and a centrifuge that's a little above most people's.

I bought a different blender. Had some kind of restaurant show, beat Gibson was on the floor and banded at the shows you could often kind of offered them something to let you take it home. And it was the big wearing which is has the same power or a little more than divided prep. And I've never found anything that it has not pulverize. Apart Within seconds, the only thing you have to do, if I didn't do it the first time is to hold down the top. Because otherwise it goes all over the kitchen.

Have you ever side by side compared it with a vital prep? No, I liked there. Do you want to bring it? Yes, I would like to I would like to do that. I mean, your voter prep over well here's here's the thing that the two major blenders that I've used on the power side have not used Jeffrey's wearing is the K tech blender and the Vita prep blender. You know, when you're talking about blending, there's there's two main things that you're worried about. One is the tip speed of the blades as they spin around, because that is what's going to determine how much force is applied to your product. The other thing is a presumably the sharpness of the blades might matter for some for some applications. And then the one that's not looked at a lot where vitae prep actually kind of falls flat sometimes is in the picture design you want you want good movement of the product through the blades. Otherwise you have problems with improper mixing and also cavitation and you get you know big pockets of air where the blades aren't hitting things. So these are the three main things you want to look for in a blender. You know, and the power is basically a rating that just correlates somewhat with the ability to spin a blade around and to get a high tip speed going. But you know they're not really great juicers, blenders more of a blender if you want to make juice, right? The the choices in the low range I would get a couple $100 Champion juicer which juices most things won't juice wheatgrass or a sugar cane. But they're great juice. He was talking about smoothies, smoothies, oh yeah, then a blender is what you want. But if you're gonna make juice, I mean when I think juice I'm thinking like a liquid. Mm. Jews if you have a lot of money the neutral faster kind of kicks but that's the big one that that but they're monsters man I went to a show and I you know I'm used to juicing carrots and apples and stuff like that and we all joke about how we're making our forearms and you know giant monstrous forearms by jamming apples case after case into these machines and juicing them so walked up to this other you know this new things new professors name tried to you know, I thought I was gonna have to force the apple through and it basically ate the apple I didn't even have time to push on it. That's how that's how awesome it is. But that's like a $5,000 problem, right? The champions like a $200 problem. How much is divided prep like a $300 problem A $400 Yeah, but I will definitely side by side mine with yours Jeffrey and we will see we'll see what we think the reason the case I didn't you invent a hand blender I did. I invented a hand blender that is almost as good as the Vita prep it has. It's got a very high tip speed it spins at 24,000 rpm with quite a bit of power and it's got a variable speed. It's got a variable speed trigger and it's pretty nice. It's not I mean, it's nice I'm not gonna lie because when when I make another batch you will definitely be on the first list of people that will go That's great. That will get one all right well, let me answer a couple questions. I have one that a quick one. From Michael at herb of herb of aeration. How do you spell herb a voracious serve a voracious wants to know whether there's any transglutaminase trans contaminated meat glue that glues meat together? Actually any proteins wants to know if there's any applications for vegetables? Well, tofu can be strengthened with trans contaminates and yogurts and other dairy systems can be strengthened with transglutaminase you can glue vegetables together with trans contaminates, but unfortunately, you have to use gelatin as a helper protein. And this is something that Wiley my brother in law has tested out quite a bit where he crosslinks gelatin to form noodles out of vegetables using transcriptomics. But unfortunately, gelatin is not vegetarian. The second question he asked is can melons be compressed without a vacuum machine? And it's tough, you know? Yeah, you can infuse without a vacuum machine, but I have not found any way to compress without a vacuum machine.

Could I just add that but I have never eaten anything that I believe that was made with me glue that was worth eating. Wow, sorry, do

Wow. Wow. What does that mean? How do you know that you've How can you? First of all, the question is, What do you mean? And secondly, how would you know whether or not meat glue is used? Necessarily,

Toby as you ask them? How

did you make this? In every case? Someone just hands you a piece of meat that's not necessarily obviously been meekly you ask them whether it was meat glued or not,

though that I would love. I would love to chase and most people don't do that. Most people use it to play tricks. For example, your and mills. Doctor duck in

the first of all, you had a very early version of it first and first of all, let me just say you had a very early version of it. Traditional turducken is an abomination because it cannot possibly be cooked right? It is not true that there is an overcoat Okay, way to overcooked duck. And it's also not true that it's okay to just bathe overcooked duck and fat and sauces, and then pretend that you haven't overcooked it. Well, who

said there was?

Well, I'm presuming that you're sticking up for traditional turducken No. Okay. But you had a very early, early version of that, and the meat lovers now? Well, first of all, as I said, you had a very early version. Second of all, I think you're wrong that most things are used for special effects. The most general use for meat glue is just in making portions that cook evenly and nicely. I mean, that's the majority of the use. It's just It doesn't get any of the press.

Well, we'll have to discuss the I can't remember the name of the cut anymore that they have at your brother in law's restaurant to pay a flat iron.

Yeah, they take out the cartilage piece. Yeah, I

didn't see the purpose.

Because although you hate this sort of thing, there are people who don't like to cut around the cartilage when they eat something.

Well, it would be better not to have cartilage. But maybe the flat iron isn't the best steak to eat in the first place. You don't think it tastes good? Not as good as, say the 30 other parts of the car. Wow, do you steer? Clear I'm sorry.

All right. Well, let's let me let me hit one more quick question because I already asked one question from Greg but not the one that actually wanted us to answer. So Greg, emailed us and said, can I talk a little more about reducing the conversation level in peppers, hot peppers habaneros. Specifically, because he uses a surgical technique to remove the inside of the skin to get rid To the majority of the capsaicin to make them not as hot. Presumably he does this because habaneros have a unique and amazing floral aroma and taste. He is interested in using an enzyme that we use called SPL with a four former one called peels I'm that kind of destroys tissue, he wants to know whether we can basically erase this layer of tissue on the inside of the pepper that has the conversation unfortunately, the stuff that that in a pepper, the thing you eat is the mesocarp. Right? That same mesocarp and a citrus fruit is the albedo, right? So this stuff that's dissolved by peels, iron, which is this enzyme is the actual meat of the pepper. Now, the majority of compensation in a pepper is contained on the inside surface of the of the inside skin of the of the pepper inside and somewhat in advance. So you could preferentially melt this top layer away with this enzyme, but then you're going to contaminate the whole the whole pepper with it. So I don't think it's necessarily going to be helpful. I think you're much better using what what you do now, which is use a knife. It's just a pain in the butt. Another another route you might take is to is to look for a source of hey, pronouns are he or he does say he or he pepper ahi AJ, I don't say, does anyone know what I'm talking about? Anyone? The it's called it's a sweet pepper that looks like a habanero, and supposedly has the aroma and taste of a habanero comes from without the spice. It comes from Venezuela, I've only had three or four of them in my life. And I didn't find them to be quite as floral or aromatic as a habanero, but they're in the same ballpark. And they require no manipulation whatsoever. I believe they are a characteristic ingredient in some traditional Venezuelan dishes, but I have never been to Venezuela, so I don't know

when also Peruvian food and but but also in Ecuador. And so he

do he does say yeah, yeah. Do you think it has as good an aroma or taste as the habanero?

Well, it's I think this is a very interesting question and an interesting idea because that we all know that different peppers have wonderful different kinds of aromatic and floral tastes. Bow but you can rarely taste them because your tongue is thinking about other things. Right? Can and so I think this is a wonderful question. I don't see why it's such a Dave What did you call it a pain in the bud? Is

that Yes pain in the butt? Yeah, well, yeah.

The words are used to you know, in the past and in restaurant kitchens, tell us to even peel grapes. Or

for a terrible day she has sold sold Veronique, right? That's

right. Yeah, two or David belay about when he was introducing a version of Joe rubbish owns famous mashed potatoes using the hot potato or the he was using fingerlings. And they have to be peeled and they're small, but abandoned. So he had a hole. He said he supported a hole, Salvador and family to to peel hot potatoes all day long for his potato puree.

And so that was a good thing supporting them by rather than supporting them by doing something else.

Well, one of them went on to Harvard and got a Nobel Prize.

This is what we call a lie. Is this true? Is No Yes. Yeah, it seems like Marx's dream. Someone's sitting in a basement peeling tiny little potatoes constantly, you know. Nice, great day with kilowatt hour. What should he have had them do a lot of kitchen work, though is nice and dehumanized. You gotta get into the zen of it. Right, Jeffrey? Like that sort of. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, but he's not appealing the outside of these peppers. It's peeling the inside. And the real problem is, is that any sort of contamination and you've just ruined your whole job, you know what I mean? That's kind of the probably the pain that nobody was putting under you. And so he's like, he's like taking in cutting the cap off and removing it carefully without cutting all the way through popping it off, opening it and then removing the inner skin, presumably without slipping and contaminating and getting the super hot parts into the not so hot parts. seems difficult.

But he doesn't have to be 1,000% accurate. You know, I mean, he's trying to get rid of as much of the pot you know, the Holland euros. Partners in order to be able to taste the floral party can still be a little hard.

Yeah, I guess I guess you are correct. And I think the other thing to do is to buy a rotary evaporator. I was specifically told last week not to mention buying a rotary evaporator as the middle I'd love to have one I've never played with yours. Well, you're welcome. Anytime, Jeffrey. And here's another question that comes in math from Chicago. And this is right up Jeffrey's alley as well. I recently bought a bag of MSG from my local Asian grocery store to experiment, but whenever I use it, I can't help to be reminded of instant soup mix. Is there a secret To help using MSG to blend with other flavors. And before I let Jeffrey launch into this, because this is a subject dear to his heart, I will just say you're probably using too much because MSG is not used in the same quantities that you would use salt or other other spices. And with that, I will I will hand it over to Jeffrey.

Well, I'm afraid that I can't give you advice about about the best way to use it. And one thing is don't use it in soup. But you know, because you'll probably be able to taste or sense it too much. But you can certainly use it in many other things. And just remember that glutamic acid MSG is, is, again, the same flavor enhancer that's been used in in Asia, drained out of giant help for many, many, many years. Yeah. And maybe you should draw giant kelp.

Yeah. kombu, for instance. Yes. But you know, you're you're also and I don't mean, you know, I think most of our listeners are not anti MSG. But you know, Jeffrey wrote was very early writer in the food world on debunking the fact that you think you might have a reaction to MSG. With that in your first book was that in the manual ate everything?

I believe it was in the first book, and it was called the modem in the second book, and it was called to tell why doesn't everybody in China have a headache? Right. And I actually did a survey in China, after lunch. Basket people, do you have headaches?