Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host with cooking issues coming to you live from New York City I happen to be in the Lower East Side because I have the COVID today so I'm being remote, but the rest of us actually missed it is also the Stasi the hammer Lopez is in California. So she's also remote but the rest of us with the exception of Jackie molecule's was always in California. Hey, Jack. Hey, hey, Don are live on newsstands studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City. We're joined as usual with Joe Hasan in the booth. How you doing Joe? Hey, how are you guys doing? All right, doing right. And John, customer service extraordinaire from Booker and DAX John, how you doing?

Right thanks.

Yep. And because I'm actually not in the studio, I think like I'm going to we're going to do the query so you know for those of you that listen to this program before usually you know we shoot the breeze for a while and then I introduce the guest but because like first of all because like the two guests do kind of such different things. I'm going to introduce them right now and everyone we're just going to get together how's that sound? Johnson sound like an okay thing. Yeah. Yeah. So to work today we have today we have Phoebe Tran who has a hate to and Phoebe doing good so you have your she has her like her irons in in many fires. So you I guess I don't know what do you go what do you go by first so like you you set up gardens for the Brooklyn Grange all over the city right you're like You're like a garden manager like in this in the kind of setup and design side of it. And am I correct in that? Is that one of the things or do you say that your primary thing is? Is like is that the night market festival that you set up the Happy Family Night Market festival? Or are you more a more on the kind of bebop side with your your project to bring like hard to find Vietnamese produce and ingredients cook with them to to our to our plates? Like which one of those three are they all they all together?

I typically I feel like it when it comes to cooking issues. I would first and foremost introduce myself as Babbitt my Vietnamese roaming pop up. And then I mean, I guess like most of the time I am in the garden hands in the dirt. Specifically tending to like edible gardens.

Alright, so you're growing things that are green? Okay, let's just be clear, you are growing things that get their energy from the sun and then provide the energy for the rest of the things on earth that that live. Whereas our other guest, Adam DiMartino, doesn't do that gross things that are? Well, they're not parasites there. But they're like, like us, they have to get their energy from things that have already grown mushroom grower with small holes. So like, so why don't you describe? This is an interesting concept. So you correct me if I'm wrong here. You help other people to grow mushrooms. True or

False? Well, true.

Yeah. So in other words, you so I can go on, I can go on your website, and I can I can, you know, order a mushroom kit and grow it myself. But like, it seems to me that like what is your doing a lot of is going into like a Whole Foods setting up like a like a whole grow. What do you call them? Mini grocery, what do you call them? What's the name of them?

It's, we call them mini farms. So we sort of do all of the above, we have all manner of farm basically, we put automated mushroom farms that are connected to a network that we sort of run remotely instead of grocery stores and restaurants around the country. And then we also actually have large automated mushroom farms, the size of warehouses, like 20 35,000 square feet, which grow significant quantities of produce for large retailers around the country.

Okay, now, I kind of don't know where to start because again, like mushrooms, not even plants not even related to plants closer to closer to animals than to plants and plants. So what's it like? The other thing I should add is that you too, are a couple so is there ever a problem like the mushroom side versus the plant side? Do you guys get into arguments honest. No.

I think our only issue sometimes is that we only talk about food. Yeah, I feel like isn't much of an issue and cooking issues.

Yeah, we Yeah, right. You know who doesn't like talking about food strangely, is a Nastasia. I don't know whether she was having some technical issues. And by the way, we all had thanks for coming in today, like aside from COVID nook, like a lot of New York City happens to be on lockdown today. So thanks, thanks for making it in. CB bizarre,

and drove and actually

yeah, yeah, yeah, she drove in, right? Because like a lot of the a lot of the what's it called? Subways are shut down anyway. I don't even know I'm not gonna get into because I don't even know. I don't even know what's what's going. What's what's happened. Alright. So, again, not knowing where to start. I'm going to ask this. Because when I when I first heard you guys were coming on. I got your cookbook, the cookbook from small hole. Mushrooms in the middle. Is that a Malcolm in the Middle reference? Or a monkey in the middle reference? Or both? Yes. Yeah, it's, it's, I guess it's to me, it's like mushrooms making into the middle of the plate. Right? Yeah, that's

the concept. Basically, mushrooms are unique in the produce section of the grocery store and in their lives, and that they occupy such a central part of it, although often are overlooked, right? 30% of most forest floors are, are made up of fungal matter. It mostly goes on seeing the largest organism in the world is a honey mushroom, up in Oregon. And so these are things that we often just don't really talk about, although I feel they're at the forefront of a lot of people's conversations today. And they definitely can occupy the center of like, Basil can't.

So Oh, harshing on basil. Wow. Liking the pesto. Okay. All right. All right. Let's run. So I've heard that that particular honey mushroom the Armillaria that out there is a not that delicious and B even though it's the largest organism in the world is actually being endangered by people going to pick pieces of it off because of how famous it is. Because I asked on Twitter, whether any, like Miko friend out there would get in there. Like don't do it. Like don't do it. It's also like a serious parasite. That mushroom. Yeah. Right. I mean, it's wipe it mean, it depends on what you like better. Do you like Douglas firs, or do you like, or do you like mushrooms? Right?

I mean, I'm personal to both. They can live together just not in one place.

Ish. Okay, so But the interesting thing about this cookbook is, first of all, the paper is extremely stiff. It's like It's like almost like golden books stiff, like board paper. And it's relatively short. But the idea of it is, is that you're buying it and it's actually for a nonprofit, the profits of it go to a foundation. I want to talk about that a little bit.

Yeah, the fungi foundation promotes biodiversity and mushroom awareness. Honestly, it's it's one of the cooler organizations out there in the mushroom world right now. I give Juliana over there a lot of credit for really pushing that agenda and making people aware of just how important mushrooms are not just to, you know, humans but to the planet. And honestly, that's sort of the mission of smallholders as well. We really want to use or sorry, to facilitate knowledge around mushrooms in the hopes that people will pay more attention to their natural environment as a result of it.

So I noticed in the book that there was a little bit of a hate down on the common button mushroom. And I understand why there needs to be a little bit of a hate down on the common button mushrooms, but come on, they are delicious. Do you not find that they are also delicious? If they were rare? How expensive would they be so expensive if they were rare? No.

Well in in Korea, they are kind of rare because of a manure shortage, right? They don't have the right kind of manure to grow buttons on and they're significantly more expensive, like upwards of $10 a pound I think.

But I'll just say like people like them there as a result of them.

Yeah, I mean, I think that they're, they eat them and they like them, but I eat them and I like them. I'm not anti button mushroom. I'm just pro all other mushrooms.

I have to say though, I feel like I haven't had a white button mushroom in a really long

while I mean, people that checks out does I mean, can you imagine if like you if you went if you went like brought home like a standard 10 ounce pack, so people in case you and I'm going to ask this later when it comes to like the economics of this, the standard unit of button mushroom in the United States is a 10 ounce packet in made of cardboard with perforated plastic over that's been extremely highly designed to keep those things in decent shape for a while anyway. So that's, if you're thinking supermarket mushroom. It's that that's 10 ounces of mushroom, right? Yeah, so I feel like so. So Phoebe so are you actually jonesing for some button mushrooms now then.

I mean, I definitely I feel like the last time I've used it. It was for this like vegan version of Vietnamese dish called Bone Rio that my mom makes and you like have to use white button mushrooms because she like blends it with like a slurry of of other mushrooms but mainly white button mushrooms and an egg. And then she sort of like Cornell's it and like drops it into a boiling soup so that it like acts is this like, vegan version of like a crab pork cloud. And like you couldn't do that you couldn't make that recipe with any other sort of like chewy or mushroom like oyster mushrooms or trumpet or whatever. Like it has to be white mushroom button mushrooms.

Huh? Huh? What texture? Are they when they drop? Like straight dumpling texture? Like what's like what are we look like?

In your mouth? Planks temper? Yeah, like, but not like fish. Moose would be a little bit like bounce here. I feel like Yeah, they're pretty like, like very light, like kind of like fall apart in your mouth texture.

Given a name again, I guarantee you people are gonna look this up. What?

Well, you can't really find the dish anywhere else because she's made her own version of it. But the but the meat version is called Bone review bun, RI E U, the real word means the measure. I mean, the Russian version, I guess would still be like, a real real meaning. Like, traditionally in Vietnamese cuisine, the dishes cooked by pounding crab. And then and then sort of boiling that. And then the what floats up? Is is the real. And then there's like an Americanized version, which is like crab and pork and lots of eggs. And then there's the vegan version, which is the white button mushroom with lots of egg.

Birds, but that's that's your that's your mom's only that's a family thing.

It is. Yeah.

Where's the memory? Where does that what part of Vietnam? Does that come from? Ah, Southern?

I would say yeah, yeah, definitely southern. Which is where your mom comes from?

Yeah, that was that was John's favorite place in his culinary travels. I've never had the pleasure of going

and all my travels. And I feel like every country. I feel like

I have no, I feel like I have like, almost zero knowledge on it's pathetic on Vietnamese food. In fact, I didn't realize how huge Vietnam like physically how many people were there until I looked it up last week. Like how big it is. It's like almost 200 million people there. Right? It's like, isn't it? Or is it one? What is it huge country much huger than I thought and like my lack of knowledge is pathetic. I went and looked up last week, like, like are my particular and people my age in the United States, white folks, like our knowledge of different Asian cuisines versus how many people are in that country? And like they're like some huge, huge gap. I mean, obviously Philippines huge, like we know so little compared to how giant that country is, you know, but I was kind of shocked also at Vietnam, besides the stuff that we all know and eat here in New York on the regular. Would you say that's a problem? In a lot of places. New York specifically. I mean, like, I know that there's huge diasporas down south.

Yeah, I actually grew up in California. Yeah, I grew up in Southern California. There's a little part of Garden Grove in Southern California called Little Saigon where a lot of Vietnamese immigrants settled including my parents after the war. I would say there's like there's always like these pockets, but I would say that in New York in particular, there's definitely I don't know like, apparently there's like a really like small Vietnamese community up in the Bronx, but I feel like because there aren't very many Vietnamese immigrants or like a hub of Vietnamese immigrants here. It's definitely reflected in like the the options for being good Vietnamese food in New York City.

$97,000,000.99 190 But still huge. That's 100 million people is a lot of people a lot a lot of people All right. So yeah, so in John, so who else John said it was one of their all time best. And he again I focus mainly on food was Bobby Murphy bartender at beverage director at existing conditions. He spent like a month and a half, two months. They're just going around eating his way through. And everyone who goes says that the food is like life changing? I don't know.

Would you say that it's life changing on?

I don't know. Yeah, I mean, some things, some of those things I'm tasting. Some of them were amazing.

I mean, it's largely the reason why I started farming because I was cooking before I was farming. Okay. And I don't know, I think I just like realized how much how many ingredients we were lacking in particular, like herbs. We were lacking. Specifically in New York, like, you know, there's something to be said about, like the fact that I can only go to one grocery store in Chinatown. That's closed on Thursdays. It's tiny. It's called tenten hyung. And that's the only place that you can get like a selection of herbs, but they you know, it's still very limited. It's maybe like, five different herbs that you can only find there. Which treats which streets are on. It's on Bowery and grandmas. You don't want to call it out. What it's all nice. promoting them. Yeah.

121 Bowery,

that's what you say Bowery Grande. That's the neighborhood. Have I not gone there, Valerie Rand. Yeah, Bowery

and grant. There, were there. Other ones I could walk. They're laying on Grant and that close during the pandemic.

Like a lot of time. Now, is it a problem in New York growing these things? Because like, our weather is not that good?

No, I mean, in New York, we actually have like a subtropical climate in the summertime. So as long as you're starting things, sort of like earlier on like indoors in a greenhouse, then I mean, tropical varieties can thrive in the summer,

unless people steal your starts. Somebody stole Phoebe starts this morning. Literally, there's a plant these

come on. From where? Like, where do they like they jump into your area? Like they come into your private area?

No, no, I mean, we have a shared sort of storage floor and I left it on the floor while I was grabbing some stuff, but it actually got returned. Yeah, someone's boss got really upset. And they claimed that they thought it was trash.

You know what, you know what? You know what? Having dealt with people like that who are like, like, oh my god, I can imagine it. Like they just want to be jerks. And they're like, it's not exactly the way I want so they just throw it all out to make a point but they don't really because they know they can't do it. So they save it and then they give it back to you. I know this kind of person. I hate this kind of person. I know and hate this kind of person. If it's the kind of person I'm assuming it is. You think Am I right here am I barking up the wrong tree?

I mean, it definitely wasn't trash. They took the tray of plants inside of a crate and left the crate. So

yeah, yeah, I know people like this unpleasant unpleasant people. So what are the what are the herbs that you think could like be like in terms of the average? Like person like myself, like super slam dunks? Like super slam dunk herbs that we don't already know about?

Are you familiar with rice paddy herbs?

I mean, I have slightly I don't know where I can buy it, man. I know what it is. You know, I know what it tastes like. But yeah, I don't know where to buy it. But yeah, cuz that anyone likes spicy and sour. Right mean so

it's not really soured.

Krissy like,

it smells like it smells like cumin. It's a you can definitely get it at 1010 hung and it's, it's traditionally used for a Vietnamese sweet and sour so you've called control. It's like uses a garnish. But like, I mean, I feel like I had I had a recent pop up. My my friends pop up a pop up in a pop up menopause doc be it in on Forsyth. They just had their last pop up last weekend. And they were using it in this like, sort of like raw fish salad. That we made like a crudo salad and it was so good. And I've been obsessed with it ever since.

I how how what's it called? How indestructible is how fragile is it? Oh, it's or like have just had it served me.

It's pretty it's pretty sturdy. Yeah, I mean, it's meant to be served cooked. Yeah. Have you had a fish mint

That is crazy. I

haven't. I have not had it. But I am intrigued by the idea of a mint that has a fishy aroma.

Yeah. Apparently there's also a mushroom herb. That's that tastes like mushrooms. And that's not Vietnamese, but I did order I did work on that see to see

our World's Columbian interesting. That'd be interesting. cross pollination there right an herbalist. So like we're talking about the fisherman, like, like, does it really smell like fish?

Yes. Yeah, it is. It was mind boggling. The first time I encountered it.

I feel like it's the like, what kind of fish? What do you mean by fish? Like dried fish.

Now like ammonia, like a white fish? Yeah,

I don't know. Just I felt like when I was smelling it, I was like, I'm not quite I don't know. But here Yeah,

I would say like tilapia closer. Or yeah, fish,

catfish? I'd say yeah, I don't know. But it was like it was clean smelling. I don't know. It was just it was really I was like putting your face in a bowl of like fish for me for me, like minus the acidity of the live and it's just like it was crazy. Yeah.

So is it used mainly in fish preps in or do they? Is it opposite land where they use it in non fish preps? Or like what? And does the fish mill stay when it's cooked?

Ah, it's not typically so the the fish mints in particular is not typically cooked. It's served fresh on like an herb plate with many other herbs. So it's meant to be paired with other herbs like perilla and mint and I don't know lettuces and sorrel, but like the the herb itself I don't know like it's it's it's meant to be it's meant to be paired. It's it's meant to eat be eaten fresh with like, you know other like, like fried things or soupy things, you could top it in a soup and then in that sense, it would be cooked.

I think that's like a common misconception for people go out to eat, you know, Vietnamese in America is that herbs are sort of a side part of the meal and accoutrement. Whereas, you know, if you're eating Vietnamese food, it's an integral part of the meal. Right? You mix you have your herbs as a part of that meal every meal.

It comes in a giant bowl right next to your dish. I mean, it is meant to be copiously added to what you're eating. It's great.

I like that. Yeah, I like that. And in Vietnam, they also use what I know of here in the Latin market as collateral, right? Yep. The the cilantro tasting thing that's kind of long and looks like a long tongue.

Yep. So they're

probably like that one that much. I gotta be honest. I would always rather have cilantro. What about you? Like what do you guys think? Would ya? What do you think? Are you like, Are you a cuatro fan? Or do you like would you always I understand that everybody needs different things. But I'm saying if someone if, if I had to reach for to cook with cilantro or kulacz row, I would always grab this cilantro. Am I just being a butthead here? Probably

Probably. I don't know. I feel like I would also grab cilantro. But that's because of my lack of familiarity with the cuatro even though I've heard it a bunch of times, I still don't know.

I think it's more I think the way that you think about it is less like interchangeably with other herbs and more like in combination. Also, it's my guy, not just myself.

Do you remember like a one on one. And I don't know like eight years ago when everyone was like delphiniums the new thing because it's like cilantro light. Also, I would never rather grab that. Would you? Would you ever be like I mean, I like it. It's great. But like I don't, I mean, maybe it's just because I grew up eating so much cilantro. That to me, like, I mean, I just I go through so much cilantro in my house. Maybe that's it. They're things that are similar to it, but not it. I'm always like, it's fine. You don't mean it's a mental problem. I think I'm having a mental problem. And as I'm speaking I'm realizing that I need to address it. I'm pretty sure that's what's happening. I need to address my my lack of willingness to try other cilantro like products, because I'm happy with other basals and other minutes I love trying like different kinds of basil and mid relatives in there all relatives, but anyway, you know what? I'm gonna get that at that place in.

Convert ask a question and then I'll interject can

we get can we get the fish minute that plays on Bowering grant?

Yeah. Oh, nice.

Oh, as soon as I'm not quarantined, we're going to go there. As soon as I'm not quarantined. We St. John,

how about we do a quick commercial break?

Yeah. All right. We'll be right back with more cooking issues. Today's episode brought to you by or a king salmon, everybody's favorite fish. And today we have Michael Fabbro from or king salmon to talk to us more about how it's raised and bred. So I haven't really thought about this. But when you're raising wheat, you're raising just like kind of like a bunch of clones, right? Or, you know, a specific variety, not a lot of diversity. So how do you make sure that there's going to be enough diversity when you're when you're raising the salmon?

So one thing that's different about us is we have our own hatchery. So we're not buying eggs, and this is traditional husbandry, this is selective breeding. Sometimes I'll use the analogy it's like it's like raising thoroughbreds, you know, some of the traits we look for are fat content, or skin color, flesh color, but there's a lot of science behind it, you know, we have well over 200,000, individual broodstock salmon in our database that they can go to and look at the characteristics of each one, we have well over 100 family groups, so we're able to ensure enough genetic diversity and avoid potential issues with inbreeding. So this is a science and an art of traditional husbandry. And it's really critical that controlling your own breeding in hatchery really helps you develop a very unique salmon in the end. Awesome. Or king salmon, everybody's

favorite fish. And we're back. Oh, and before we go in, I just wanted to say this. So Stuart Fox, who helped us finishing up the exhibition for opening African slash American making the nation's table at the Africa Center with Museum of food and drink. So he's working on a project so I'm just going to read a little promo that we thought might be good for particularly people who listen listen to us who are in New York or in the hospitality business. As restaurants around New York City finally they get back begin to get back on their feet over a million of our neighbors are still wondering where their next meal will come from. The North Brooklyn Mutual Aid Society maintains free distribution sites around Williams, Williamsburg and Greenpoint, and it needs your help keeping people fed. If you're a cook, Chef restaurant or bar owner or if you're a grocery or Bodega Bodega who would like to provide space material support technical capacity, or food in support of ready made meals to the local free distribution sites, please contact the North Brooklyn mutual aid free fridge program team at Greenpoint, helpers@gmail.com that's Greenpoint, helpers@gmail.com and thank you for helping us to make sure none of our neighbors have to go hungry. And their website is North Brooklyn mutual aid.org as well. And I'm sorry, Stuart that I can't give it my usual gusto. But the COVID has taken me down to about I would say 70% of my normal scream factor. I only got about 70% of myself here. So I apologize. I couldn't give it the normal scream aroma. But was that alright, John was alright with that.

That's great. And if anyone missed any of that, and feel free to reach out to me on any of the socials or email or anything like that, we can talk more about it.

Yeah, if you are if you are a food supplier, and you have food and or time and want to help making ready made meals for people to pick up at local distribution points in Brooklyn, where there's plenty of people who don't have enough food to eat, reach out.

There. Right, right. Remember one more? We forgot to mention at the top, if you want to call in call 917-410-1507.

Yeah, okay. Now Phoebe, I want to get back to this because I had a question. So you're also you do a festival once a year? Are you still are you continuing? Or do did the pandemic do damage to the to the, to the happy family?

Yeah, we actually ah, so I actually stepped away from the project in 2020 When I started farming. And also Yeah, like we weren't allowed to do like 2000 plus people person festivals anymore. So yeah, we pivoted, they pivoted to online programming. And supposedly another happy family night market festival is supposed to be happening either this year or next year. Yeah.

We had a lot of good people doing it like a lot of people like even from my neighborhood like COVID Tom and all those guys. A lot of really good people at it. Why is it named after happy family the dish

it is it is an actually, it was required by the by Mossad's last exhibition.

Oh, ciao. That's so nice. It's great. I love that exhibition. Actually, John, you came on to moped during Chow right during during the making your child? I did? Yeah.

A year after it opened. I started in 2017. I'm Alfred.

Are you there at the same time?

Yeah. That

I think that might have been. Yeah, with other John withdrawing John Hart was there. Yeah, we must have John the height.

Yeah, John The hood is like somewhere like being himself in Spain right now. But for those, you know, that was the he was the Mofaz chef. And he was the one who was using that we had to have a, an induction walk there, which is why everyone who hates on induction walks is like, you know, I don't know if you've used this hardcore induction walk because this induction walk it would get like cherry red, it was crazy. And first of all, like you guys wouldn't like at the beginning of that exhibition, we're doing the craziest, like fermenting like so many crazy distilling illegal stuff there. It was kind of a fun time you know?

Yeah, John John just thought aspired to just always have a fermentation kitchen wherever he was.

Yeah, so yeah, pretty eclectic. Yeah. Knife collection. Yeah.

Yeah. But I remember I went to the cutting board collection Yeah, I went to go visit him at this Australian cafe that he was also working on at the time and he took me downstairs to the fermentation kitchen that he had set up done yeah, I guess they couldn't they couldn't afford to hire him so part of his agreement with them was that they would he'd be able to set up a fermentation kitchen downstairs.

Yeah, that checks out he's not so much with rules. He's not so much with rules doesn't like him. doesn't enjoy rules. You know, I mean, yeah, yeah.

His his latest the happy

family

but well his latest paper I think that in video

was the title was imperforated my paper now

is fermenting anti capitalism. Yep.

That checks out checks out so happy family I have to say this is how I decided to meant it I am like I always thought it was a perverse so happy family is a dish that has like a lot of different meats in it for those of you that have never heard of happy family right got a lot of different meats in it and I always thought that someone was going into like a barn with a machete and just wiping out all of the animals that were in the barn and making it into this one dish and so it was like a you know, like kind of like a demented happy family in other words, just like some sort of Manson Family massacre of animals to make the one day and then just today just today when I was looking over the stuff I was like oh it's probably the your family's happy because you can serve them all of these needs it's not a sarcastic that the animals must be happy and I always thought you know what I mean? That just goes to show where my brain goes for years I've been thinking this

was a really Kitchen Sink dish right preferred state your Yeah, I think everyone's a little bit of everything

Yeah, but it's like the maximum number of different kinds of animals killed for one dish of anything I can think of off the top of my head you know, saying it's the Maximum Carnage

Well, there was a it was a king in the way dynasty who had people scour the scour all Vietnam and the lands beyond for the most random stuff he could they could find and bring it back to them, and then they would combine it into these weird sculptures. It's it's super, super esoteric.

Yeah, there's a the royal cuisine of wet cooking. I did like a sort of like research post on my Instagram. And it was a it was a it was like a big feast that featured all these like exotic animals that were caught by these knights in Vietnam that were like bring them back. And it was like bear claw and a Ranga Tang brain and just like, you know, really crazy,

but then combined into sculptural food pieces with a pig snouts and tails.

I mean, I kind of want to see that I don't want any orangutangs killed but I kind of want to see it, you know? Like it like a real life arcing boldo but with animals instead of vegetables.

Yeah, so Okay, so I found that I found those. So each of the embers meals consisted of 35 to 50 dishes prepared by a team of 50 people who made up the tune tn DOI a kitchen cabinet that oversaw the sourcing preparation, cooking customs, ceremonies, and medicinal balance of each dish. Each meal needed to include eight auspicious dishes that were believed to bring health and longevity to the Umbers peacock spring rolls Phoenix rolls bird's nest Rhino skin bear paw, deer tendon or banqueting lips and elephant like meat.

Yeah. Wow. Talking about kitchen sink like hey go is there more me like that's already that's already a conservation is nightmare right there?

Well yeah, I mean the statement was these dishes were centered around exotic and non DIEDRING beats elaborately displayed as works of art and passed on from generation to generation. So now there's, there's one woman who lives in where that has sort of sort of like school that she maintains to carry on this like tradition of quick cuisine. And it's not just those like eight auspicious dishes. It's like the entire sort of like, process of like carving these elaborate, sort of like, vegetables and putting them together here, Asha, Asha, John.

Wow, wow,

I have heard that bear paw is actually delicious. I have heard this. I've only eaten bear once and it tasted terrible. Now. I cooked it and I don't know how to cook bear. So it could be on me also, like, it was an old bear. I had an very, very old bear. But I don't know British. Enough different people tell me that bear tear. Well, there used to be this guy out of Chicago who sold who sold kind of exotic meats. And when I was back at the French Culinary Institute, we bought some stuff from him because on his website, he made it seem like everything was like legitimately source right? Like legitimately like not just legal but like you know you know, not a moral right. And I found out later that that wasn't the case that he was doing like a lot of really bad stuff. And so we didn't order from them anymore. So Bear was one of the things that that that we got the what the worst was though, Raccoon that tasted terrible. I mean, it was a greasy, tough, little terrible.

I feel like raccoon maybe pin Jack. I don't know about choosing to eat wreck. I know what they

did you prepare it

we lo tamped all of it just to see like kind of like what because and we tried to keep it as neutral as possible. Like we weren't saucing it I don't want to want to I don't even know what I don't need it. I know what a what a good sauce tastes like I want to know what the meats tasted like right so we basically just low tempt them for a long time and then just tried to like flash them off to you know get a little color on the on the outside and had a raccoon I suppose. No part of it. I liked bear to the Yak. Delicious. Delicious. I would I would travel to eat good yak at high altitude yak but I mean yak as well. I have not had the X milk. I've had the X milk cheese. I've never had the X milk. But yeah, but yak itself. That is a good product. But but the bear I'm willing to try the bear again. I've heard that the bear from Hokkaido is like the bear to have, like if you want to go like like very northern, you know, part of Japan that Hokkaido is got the bear to beat if you want, like the best quality bear nothing I'm saying you should go to Hokkaido and kill a bear. I'm not saying that at all. Okay, yeah. All right. So so, back to mushrooms for a second before I get to the Patreon questions because I don't want to miss them. Before we go. Adam, have you ever been and I know that you're not. I know specifically that you aren't interested or part of the mainstream mushroom industry. But I kind of have to ask have you been to the mushroom Festival? In Kennett square?

Yes, it's very wholesome.

I've been wanting to go for a number of years. Yeah, I've been wanting to get to T shirts. Years. Should I go to the Kennett square mushroom festival?

I would say that's that's a hard Yes. I mean, it's it. You know, it's similar to a lot of towns you have a produce or something that comes from them. Like we have an apple festival in my parents town up in Connecticut. It's similar to that. Although a lot more deep fried mushrooms. Lots of fried mushroom products. Yeah, there's also another mushroom festival.

did you when did you enter the contest? Did you enter the deep fried mushroom eating contest?

No, no, you know about that? Yeah, I mean, we're kind of we're friends with a lot of the growers down there. It's not not a bad place to be. And mushrooms are great. People who grow mushrooms are all it's all one big kind of family and Kennett, everybody like the shipper is somebody's cousin. Who knows Bob, who started a mushroom farm used to work for John who started another mushroom farm. It's a very, it's very sort of awesome part of the country. I think like 70% of the mushrooms in the country come from there.

Yeah, it's bizarre. It's huge, right? And so like what, you know, one of the things that I thought was interesting is that you were pointing out like button mushrooms are rare. And but But 70% of all of the mushrooms in the United States come from there, no matter what the variety is. This town, that nose area that no one's heard of how the hell did that happen? Well, the,

I think I forget which wave of Italian immigration, it was. But basically, in Philadelphia, which was our first city, the main mode of transportation, and a lot of the business was focused around livestock and horses. And the byproduct of having, you know, cows and horses, is a lot of manure. And that's actually a business if you grow mushrooms. And, you know, Italians grew mushrooms on that manure, when they emigrated to the United States. And that's how the business sort of started and it grew from there. You know, fast forward about a century and a half, and you have a highly industrialized mushroom, you know, business, stratified with shipping and logistics integrated, and it's a pretty, it's a pretty massive thing. So it's basically become essentially, the iceberg lettuce of the mushroom roll. So I'm not again, it's like button mushrooms are good. I like iceberg lettuce too. I just wouldn't want to only eat iceberg lettuce. Yeah, it has a great texture. Mushroom again, on pizza. Button. Mushrooms are awesome. But there's a world of mushrooms out there besides buttons that most Americans, you know, not in Vietnam, right. There's, there's a lot of different kinds of mushrooms that are not, you know, misconstrued with meat textures. That's one of my biggest pet peeves is when people call something that has, you know, mushrooms in it plant based, or they compare it to meat. I think that there's a there's a world of mushrooms out there. Besides button mushrooms.

It's all kingdom.

Yeah. Yeah. whole kingdom. Well, yeah, yep. So by the way, just a point of point of question, what's the difference? Is there a difference? And when do you use it? You you use trumpet? Is that the same as what I call king oyster? Like the like the royal trumpet? Is it the same? Are they slightly different?

Yeah, and that that's correct. Or the same mushroom and actually, buttons and portabellas. Right. And cremini are the same mushrooms as well. There's one that's one mushroom just at different stages of maturity, and baby Bellas. And so they've just been sort of chopping up button mushrooms for again, like a century. When, if you make a comparison, just again to greens. We saw kale, right? Kale hit the grocery stores, and, you know, late 80s, early 90s. And it was sort of the indicator species in a way for a wider organic movement that was opening up with like Whole Foods. And I think we saw that we should talk he's that brought the word umami to our lexicon in America, although I feel like there's a bit of a missed opportunity there to sort of promote mushrooms on a larger way in a larger way.

Yeah, well, I mean, she talkies? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but unlike I looked it up. I do some writing the other day. She was a month ago now. Sorry, the other day. I think button mushrooms worldwide are are only 50 in terms of how many are produced and she talkies a number one. Yeah, number one worldwide. China has a growing mall, they grow

it million pound harvests of fatalities per farm. Like it's not. It's a it's a massive industry. The fact that we sort of missed that is still i As somebody who has been working in the industry for a minute. It's still surprising. How do we miss mushrooms?

Now, entre talkies for a second? Wish your talkies now that they can grow them when they want to in humidity controlled environments and temperature controlled environments, right? They're no longer beholden to what's going on. They can make the flower style photography's whatever they want now, right? Do you think that those ones that are grown that way that aren't natural? Like the flower top or whatever, whatever you want to call them? You tell me what you prefer to call them on the street? Do you really think that they taste any better?

Um, I mean, honestly, I've had some mind blowing shit hotkeys in Seoul and I was actually supposed to fly to China in March of 2020. In February, I got a call from my fixer. You shouldn't come here. So I'm really bummed that I got to miss that, or I had to miss that. But yeah, like they're the concept of like a gift mushroom with that's pristine and has been grown in the optimal conditions and selected is very real. And I feel like, if not just a psycho somatic sort of, sort of impression of them, giving them their flavor is is true, I do feel like there's techniques that growers can use to make sure talkies grow slower and take nutrients in different ways that add flavor and visual appeal that go back Melania and I don't think we should discount that from from this attack. And also there's genetics right. And so then growing them outside in a specific way, especially there's a farmer in Japan, whose output has actually changed due to climate change. But he has been farming mushrooms in this same patch of forest in the same style dunking them in the same pond for you know generations they have been farming them for generations. And people swear by those so I would I was at Yeah

cuz she talkies are grown on on wood, right? Plugged wood and then you have to get them wet before they start to fruit is that Howard white key wise key run through I know that they're going to cut us off pretty soon. But can you run through the process that Kota asked? We'd love to hear Adam talk about the underground mycelium network. But they're not all underground. Like some of these things are grown on different kinds of substrates. Can you can you run through that really quickly?

Yeah, I mean, more than mushrooms in general and how they're farmed. Indoors, I guess there's there's outdoor farming and there's indoor farming, outdoor farming is a little bit of a, it's still a lift, like, technically, it's like hard to do. But indoor farming, you're managing the climate, all the time. And so with blocks of mushrooms, what you're doing, we're primarily growing decomposers, right. So they're decomposing wood, and turning that into its their food. And so you'll you'll start off with sawdust and agricultural waste product mushrooms grow and waste streams, or at least the ones that we grow those mushrooms, take the you'll take the substrate, the sawdust, as it were and put that in the autoclave, which is pressure vessel. And that pressure vessel is the size of a submarine. Usually, you put it in 500 pound racks. And then you cook it. You know, I'm sort of going quickly here because I know we have time you cook it and you kill everything else that can be competitive with the mushroom that you want to grow on that substrate. So any bacteria write any pathogenic stuff, and then you add your spawn, which has been genetically selected, you know, over time to that substrate, let it colonize in a plastic bag. And that takes you know, two to four weeks depending on the mushroom and a few other factors. And then you enter the fruiting cycle, at which point you expose that substrate, you open the bag, the high heat bag, it's able to be to withstand the temperatures of an autoclave. And then you open that and expose that substrate and the fungus to oxygen. And you change the lighting and it triggers the fruiting process. And then from there, it's about another generally two to four weeks. But you know, some mushrooms take longer and some mushrooms are shorter. The key to all that is sterility indoors.