Hello and welcome to cookie issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live from Newsday in studios at Rockefeller Center in the heart of New York City joined as usual with Anastasia hammer Lopez, but she's joining it from an undisclosed location. How're you doing stuff? I'm good. How are you doing? Well, doing well, hey. Well, we have we can ask finally, later in the show the question about whether we were completely in the wrong when we went to that place in Tokyo remind me because we got to we got to ask whether we were completely just being the worst cultural ambassadors of all time or not. You know, I'm talking about yes, yeah. All right. To remind me remind me joined in the studio with John, how're you doing?

I'm doing great. Thanks. Yeah,

everything. What do we have? So we don't forget, because I always forget, what do we have to announce today?

Oh, we got so many awesome things to announce selenium

wise, why don't we take care of the announcements? Yes. Great.

So up through Friday, through kitchen Arts and Letters, you can get 20% off the Japanese art of the cocktail. I also posted on Patreon and in the discord today about the Oregon salmon discount as well as the Griffin vine discount. So if you are not a member of the Patreon, what are you waiting for? Because in addition, all this great content, you're getting these exclusive offers with some of our partners, and it's really great. Then upcoming guests, we've got James Hoffman, Matt from kitchen Arts and Letters Adam DiMartino, Kenji Lopez, Alt, and next week, we don't have any guests. So we will get to the backlog of questions that we have. Right? So

anyone that any Patreon question we haven't answered, although John, you should call and see if any are what's the word? I'm looking for. time sensitive time. Yeah, see if there's any or time sensitive, like someone has a wedding or something like this. Also a Patreon like, reach out to us if you if you if you really need something right away. I guess you don't have to wait for the show. Right jump then I will talk about on the show if I tell you right away. Is that true, John? It's true. It's true. And joined as usual by the dueling banjo of engineers, Joe Hayes in here in our New York booth. How you doing, Joe? Hey, Dave, how you doing Dave? I'm doing well. You sound mellow today. It's uh, that's kind of like, is that like fake new dad mellow or actual mellow? It's actual mellow things are good at home. That's great. That's so awesome. And of course, Jackie molecules jackings Lee in I'm assuming la I don't Yes. What's up I'm here in LA Nana, the world Jackie molecules. All right, but today we have a we were going to have him on earlier. Right. So it's, it's not that we had to wait a full year after the book came out. We had a little bit of a scheduling snafu. But we have today on the show, Masahiro or Shido, who I've only ever spoken as masa. I've never ever used his full name. In fact, for years, I didn't know he had a full name. He's just masa in the way that Madonna. I mean, who knows Madonna's last name? You know what I'm saying in in the bar world. Masa is masa and there is no other masa. You know what I mean? In the bar. What do you think attack? Am I accurate? We also have a guy I've known actually for how many like 1213 years at least Yeah. Michael and standing so they wrote it and so a lot of people don't know this. But handily and Michael and standing are this like kind of like pout food power couple in New York. And Hanna Lee runs handling heavy communications is the name of the company. Right? That's right. Yeah. And they are you might have heard of a bar called the dead rabbit. Maybe you've heard of it. I don't know. If you've been to a bar in New York. You've heard of the dead rabbit anyway, so she, you know, she helped make the them like one of the biggest bars. She works with masa at Katana kitten, his amazing bar here in New York, which we'll get into. But here's how I'm gonna tell you about Hannah and Michael. They were very early on the very first board of the Museum of food and drink even I think before it was even officially called the Museum of food and drink. So very longtime friends known him a long time. How're you doing,

Michael? doing really good. Delighted to be here.

And masa. How you done?

Amazing. Yeah, amazing. Thank you.

So came out with this book that now do you pronounce it? The art of the Japanese you don't pronounce it the way it's written on the book. You don't say Japanese art at the cocktail. You say art of the Japanese cocktail. Right? Which one do you do?

The Japanese or the cocktail jab

the Japanese art of the cocktail. So not so it's not. It's the Japanese way to make a cocktail, whether it's Japanese or not. But not the art of only Japanese cocktail. So it's very important that the art go in the right spot. Exactly. All right. So we got a lot to we got a lot to get through today. On this end, John, we had a couple of questions come in you want to you want to hit want to hit them up with the questions early.

Yeah, why not? Let's do it. How

to do it. Do that before we get into the you know,

great All right. Okay. So this is from Warren Johnston. I believe Katana Kitten has one of the sentry high ball machines for pre chilling and carbonating whiskey high balls for on tap service. Have you ever done a side by side comparison with a three times force carbonation technique and Dave's liquid intelligence? And aside from the quicker service, are there any distinct advantages for the century machine?

Alright, well go for a masa. That's

amazing question. Yeah.

And we're gonna get a lot after this on on highballs, too. So yeah, so say what you want about the question, and then we'll get into it.

Well, but the first of all, thank you for having us. Oh, and that was very sweet introduction, that even in you are so natural. And then I'm just like, so amazed by this. Have you caught it like me saying, Oh, my

gosh, we've been doing it for like how many years we've been doing this for? Just so natural,

and you're not reading it? No, no, no, it just comes from your mind. That's amazing.

But the trick is, people This is funny. No one's ever asked me about how we do this. But the trick is, is that like, I have the questions here. And then usually I just have like a couple of notes. But most of the time I get into such like questions that I even forget to go to the notes sometimes you know, but usually suggested the questions so fast. Well, this is the problem with my head this is why go in tangents all the time. You know me from the bar. This is why they never let me behind the stick at the bar because I'm just all over the place. You know.

Super cool. Yeah.

So okay, talking about the machine.

Yes. Machine is super cool. And then there's financially it's very affordable. So it's kind of like a win win. And then that's kind of when to that brand new Sansaar is that they created this absolutely amazing machine. So you asking them about the comparison so that yes, I guess we did so that we bought the Schweppes that the soda water across the shoe from Rite Aid and it came back and very well chilled. I spit it out a little bit to give them room and then put the combinator just like you know the I learned how to carbonate things from from Dave So back in a day that like the everyone was using the Sodastream I should not say you can you can say whatever Yeah, okay, so that was like like, you know, the for the bar in the very early time like everyone use it. It was it was good, but it's almost like like almost like a home cooking. Yes. You know, that is not professional. And then I learned that Forrest Gump. Oh, you remember that was from Chivas? Competition. Yeah.

Which one you want? Yeah. We were weird. Nomad,

Nomad, and then the show everyone how to frame with? Yeah. And then the what's it called it

the with the carbonator? Captain? Yeah,

that was amazing experience. And then since like, we start using it. Anyway, go back to the answer to the question. So we try to do it again. The first carbonated the store bought sort of water and then a couple of times. At some point, like, you can't really add much, you know, you know that, that you're not making the size of the bubble smaller. That's how I felt, you know, the tasting competition, but it's all about comes down to consistency in how rational your practice basically, you're serving hundreds for Hodges for Hybl every night, so to answer to the question that the difference, yes. But you know, I prefer that the machine combination. Right.

Well, the other thing is, I think, you know, from my perspective, like taking on the kind of carbonation that we did, is there Look, there's a reason that we were, there's a reason that both bars that I you know, had that we were, like, I think very good at certain things and then other things we just didn't even attempt to do because there's just a lot there's a lot to maintain that kind of carbonation program you have to devote a lot of your energy to that carbonation program, which means you know, you want to think when you're young that you have a infinite amount of energy they don't You don't you don't you have to focus on some things in the Tokyo machine. I actually believe it's a good machine. I think it's a good machine. I think it's also a it's maybe like a slightly different result. What's what's interesting to me from reading the book that I didn't know I didn't know you could adjust a mixture ratio on a Tokyo machine Oh

yeah, you can do one to one Yeah. You can do you know

because they do traditional totally high ball Japanese style is of is four to one right a three is a three and a half or four to one it's

you know the I don't know exactly ratio because of the you know, when I was young I didn't you know really care what's in it or like you know, the pay attention to those details. So I remember that the enjoying those the Japanese high vote when I was you know, going out I tasted a very thin I mean like that's also kind of is a kya or like a little nicer bar the the way they make it as you go to the nicer bar, I tasted it more whiskey in it. So they could ratio is much more you know, like smaller. But if you go out and then is that Kayo like those that the casual environment, the casual setting, I tasted it more thinner no obvious reason you know, save some money but from from restaurant bar perspective so like the I'm not sure that exactly that what we do now at the katana kitten is about one to five. Wonderful so so it's light Hanohano so sorry that's your questions. Dave 12 glasses. I'm so happy that I brought I brought a little refreshment if you guys are nice. Yeah,

of course. So well while moss is getting this I will say also for those of you that don't know Toki is an interesting whiskey because it built a lot for high ball. Oh my God, look at this.

So check this out. It's a perfect question. That's the first question.

I mean, this is masa.

Masa. Masa comes prepared. Listen

masa like for those who didn't never been to Katana kitten masa is an unbelievable host and that's part of the bar experience is not only the cocktail and the way it looks but unbelievable host so a well known bartender back when existing conditions was open went to Katana kitten and then came to our bar it was like look, I got a signed I got a signed you know, whatever it was like the sock a box or something from or something signed from from masa with my name on it. And so I just took a piece of fruit off the bar is like get out of here jerk and sign it and gave it to him because like, we there's no one can no one can beat moss at that kind of host game you want. I mean, Michael?

I agree. 100% Yeah,

there's a he's super interesting. So well. Oh, look at this.

So I brought some glass. So well. It's just like we make back into consolekit. So

for a visual, there's appears to be a chilled bottle of spirit. Chilled glasses with ice in them coming in a like in a container perfectly tempered it is perfectly timber. Yeah, yeah. Not like lift. It's looks clear. I'm giving you a visual reference. And you can see it if you're a Patreon member. You can see what's going on. Yeah. Now I will say this about Toki. What's interesting about Toki the whiskey specifically for high ball applications is that it is very viscous whiskey so it maintains its body with dilution. It's specifically designed to maintain body over a wide over a wide dilution range. I don't think you were there moss. I don't know what I did with Dawn. years ago at the Brooklyn bar convent. i We did something with Toki. And I was getting to talk to the not the distiller but the the US rep. American guy and we were what Gardner Yeah, yeah. And we were talking about, we were talking about, like, specifically why Toki is designed for a highball, you know,

yeah, obviously. I'm so sorry. I brought only three cups.

Oh my god. Oh, beautiful.

So they go, cheers.

Oh, thank you so much,

Michael. And pie. Yeah, come by. I brought enough. I think I brought enough whiskey for another round.

And John, we can we can split. Oh, I like the little twist on him. Cheers. Cheers.

Thank you for having us.

Yeah. So this is this is what we would refer to as a delicious refreshing drink. Right? But, but the nice thing about Toki right. So like, Would you say it's fair that culturally, at least in the past American Bar drinks have skewed higher in alcohol than then the equivalent actual drink consumed in Japan. So like, this tastes like delicious and refreshing. Like maybe nowadays, I think many people gravitate towards us and I get older I gravitate towards this kind of drink becoming very popular now. But back in the day, there was more of a difference between Japanese perception of ideal amount of alcohol and and drink and American idea of ideal alcoholic drink. What do you think?

I'm not sure. You know, like the I think that the consciousness was more the experiencing alcohol, which is feeling the booze, right? Like, maybe that's what I think. So like today, like, you know, like, it's not about thinner, but more flavor. Like the kind of the, the focus is more on not on the money that penny that you're spending on, you know, like, it used to be like, Oh, come on, like, it's so thin, you know, like, I pay this much. And it was another shot. You know, that kind of the ratio on the taste and you know, knees. Yeah, yeah,

there's an extreme fine line. Michael pass back and Johnson can have a taste, please. There's an extreme fine line with booze in general whiskey specifically, were like, it's delicious. It's delicious. Thin, right? And what's nice about Toki is it's a little bit more forgiving. If they don't drink it at the right speed. It stays its body stays good, a little bit longer than some other whiskies. In fact, we had a question. I don't know who it was from, John, but roughly roughly stated was if you were going to make a bourbon Highball, what what would you to use and so you'd have to choose one that works well over a wide dilution range. Do you have one that you like or not a

high proof bourbon work well, or is there an expert opinion as to the quote unquote, correct bourbon?

What would you use for both things? So

I don't I really don't actually, I like scotch. And I like, I like Scotch whiskey. I like a nice Scotch whiskey. I like Japanese whiskey. I like bourbon too. But not particularly. I would have made that with a sort of water high bar just a drink itself.

Yeah, I don't know. I've never actually it's interesting. I've never made I've never done like a whiskey soda with bourbon.

I have one. I have one.

Yeah, okay. What IW Hopper Okay,

yeah, I think that that makes absolute beautiful hypo All right. Well, that's what the I was making back in Japan actually. Oh really? Yeah, you know that there's a square but I think that was a 12 year bottle

change their age statements now.

So but that was like around 2000 Like you know that the square bottle is kind of like almost a kind of etched designed bottle. It's so beautiful. And then I think that was something made use make back in Japan and I thought it was delicious.

Yeah, let's see actually Jim Beam has eyeball RTDs

he are well everyone's everyone's on the RTD market now Japan betas wait to it because they don't have the stupid liquor laws that we have. So it's much easier for them to do our TDs there than it is for us to do have you had the dream be March we didn't mind I have how was it quite good. Quite good. Yeah. Now let me ask you this. Are you representing I'm just

no no financial interests.

Okay. Okay. And you like it? I do. Do they jacket with glycerin? I don't know. Listen, people if you if you're having trouble with your high ball and you're using a whiskey that isn't designed for it, or if you just want to make your drinks less alcoholic but not taste then just put a little bit of just trust me try it. Put a little bit of vegetable vegetable glycerin in it. You're not making it worse. You're trying to get a different effect as long as people hate glycerin because it was meant to make things cheap. But if you're using it to make things better, that it's it's it's has it's not dishonorable to use it anyway. Okay, that's amazing. Yeah, it's great. I mean, like, it's so like, you know, when we were doing like, we were doing whiskey soda, we do this the soda with a company, and they they wouldn't, they wouldn't want us to, right? They want the ratio they want. I would always add a little bit of glycerin cause like it's too thin. You know what I mean? Toki you don't really need to like you know what I mean? Like Turkey is built for it. Almost in fact they don't sell in Japan right it's only here still. Yeah, well I'm sorry Tokyo is still only in the US. Maybe in the UK David maybe but it's not in Japan. Made in Japan but sold here. Exactly. Yeah. Let me ask you about Japanese whiskey cuz I know you love it. I know Michael loves it. Do you remember when like in like 20 like 10 2011 Japanese whiskey was such so affordable. You could buy it. We like we bought Yamazaki was nothing it means nothing but it was like completely affordable. Now it's as you write in the book pappy Van Winkle syndrome it's crazy. Is it making more difficult in your life to do it or is it mean that you have enough customers come in want to pay for it and then so it's fine or does it make you angry that it's much harder to enjoy for people because of the cost?

That's long question Yeah. I remember I wish I remembered like you know like you walk into a liquor store as like a 10 years old and the early interests you're not looking at the shelf and checking out the sentries whiskey price but I remember Have you seen those ceramic bottle the New Year bottle

yeah that one yeah,

I remember that we had my my grandpa from Mom's side he used the watch clock shop you know like repairing watches and clocks and then can a New Year gift

your dad worked for Seiko? Yes but not the clock people not the clock now

over the new stuff like computers and screens. So the grandpa shop so as a New Year gift I think he was giving away those for those regulars that the clients and again as a thank you I think it's like orders like a ceramic bottle. I used to see as a kid like what's in it of course curious but there was a whiskey so you can't touch it. But I used to remember that that was one of those kind of what's it called sensory I think that was a sensory royal that's the inside of the juice but the new year different shape and and give it away to those clients. Next time I go home I'm gonna

put it in your pocket bigger because that stuff now with like Japanese whiskey, you can't you can't even touch it. Like I remember once. Even a couple of years ago, we had a bartender very unusual an American America like an American born person who was working in a in a Tokyo bar which is unusual as you know, and not an American Bar in Tokyo in a Japanese bar in Tokyo. And he told me that like you He goes to the liquor store like every day to see if he can spot one of the limited releases that come out. And then he buys it and half of his income is actually just retreating. limited release Japanese whiskies. It's just nuts. It's crazy. Very risky. Yeah. I mean, but apparently, like the stuff doesn't go down in value, you know, always illegal to do it.

I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, spill it.

I mean, I mean, the, the thing is, nobody anticipated this boom, including the Japanese producers. So you can't just make this stuff overnight. You know, it has to age for a certain period. So I think we're gonna be facing the situation for a while.

Yeah. Well, I mean, like, in a way, I mean, obviously, it's good for the producer, right?

I think so. You know, if I was making if I'm, if I'm the whiskey producer, like, Japanese whiskey producer, you know, like, I went to buy it, I went, I went to buy my own whiskies. Don't drink too fast, but not too slow.

Exactly. Now, something I want to ask you, so you came over in what, like, 2007 or something like 2008? Yeah. So, and you write about this, one of the things that's always fascinated me, is, like, culturally, the difference in how to learn a craft in Japan versus in the US, right? So in the US, we expect that if I'm going to go do something that you're going to teach me, right, and we get mad, if you don't, if you don't teach me, you know, we get angry, you know, what I mean? We feel that, that, you know, the mentor is is not, is not a good mentor that they they are not, you know, they're not being giving, right. And, you know, from the few times I've interacted with, you know, people in Japan or you know, from Japan coming over, is very different. And you know, you write in the book, I'm going to mispronounce it, but memorize how you pronounce it will look and learn, watch and learn. I mean, me there I mean, right? Yeah. And it's a very, very different it's very conceptually different, right? It's not about me asking why you do something, it's about looking and paying attention, a completely different way of learning. So as someone who is brought up with that, but you have to train American staff, how does that work? Like how do you how do you split that difference? Do you feel more American in the way you train? Or do you feel more like in a Japanese way when you're training people

that's gonna be a very long answer. So that I think to meet today that's how the way I think is that you know, like thanks to this very person, his name is Mr. OSI he's in the book that you know I really show really gratitude he

was the head waiter in your first big job right? Yeah,

amazing. You read so so OSI some told me one student says like how important that like important to be a absolute beginner. So I think that to answer the question is a different side of the teaching and different era that we all came from like what we learn through the experience and working in very particular place in a very particular time period. And I think it's me that up to that how spongy your brain is how flexible your brain is, or the mental state that the ready to learn not to take anything not anything is that's the very difficult but how to be kind of not just only receptive but but the how to take things in to you you know, like that as you get older and then you have experience and you have certain mindset that like oh, this is the way I like maybe this is the way I like to learn but then when you when you like it and I 8019 Pretty much my head was like you know like pretty stupid you know, like that the kind of and that way that I didn't take certain way of a teaching method and that I wouldn't say you know that the interview wasn't efficient to me today. If I look back I can Oh no, that's not how you should talk to general genuinely talk to other people you know, that's not nice. But back then I took it like like really something harsh was and you know, like attitudes towards me that they're from those same pies essentially and then and on the way back on the train and I was like, I don't know why he was so mad at mean that word and then I tried to do this way and and then it was wrong way to him and then they got mad and why why why keep thinking like and never took it personally like the way that like, you know, like so.

Which is why everyone takes a hit. But

like I kind of kept like never got like mad at them in the way it was just Like, why the curious question why they were so mad? Why, you know, sleep on it, wake up next day, you have to go back to work, you know, like, just that you feel like, maybe I don't want to go, you know, but it show up to work. And it's, again, switches aren't like you clock in and on like, you know, like really like mode in its own that like setting up, you know that the tables and everything and keep thinking. And then next time you see something he does so many things so many, you know, like amazing tricks. And then I think like, oh, oh, that's why that's why I was wrong. You know, like when you see that kind of success in front of you like how he served and then made that guests happy, like, you know, like really smiling and happy and and then then I learned Oh, there you go. That's the timing. That's the timing how you do it, you know, like that's kind of sort of that moved to New York, I'm sorry, just fast when I moved moved to New York and and I learned so much from knowing young and Linden prior to that when I was 16, bro. And, you know, very different the way I kind of like learn before like, so like, just like, Oh, back into school. So this feel, you know, that they're learning from them. And then they bought from Australia, and then you know, lived in New York and experience in in New York, in a restaurant in bars. So I kind of took lots of advantages in from that experience. It's just basically all these ideas that they're something personally, I learned the way that from Japan and that at the same time, kind of, you know, just just it's not teaching but it's more like a like a sharing idea to staff that with the something I personally experienced from those Japanese sensei from the Japanese as in and now young as well.

So would you say because this is the way I think, to me ideal, which I don't know how to do it. But to me, the ideal is to teach, I think, which is the heart of what you're saying is close observation, right? close observation. And another thing you concept you bring up a lot, which is the Kaizen constant improvement, close observation, constant improvement, and also the value and the love of repetition, the value of consistency, and repetition. So like, these are very hard things to teach, right? And so like, I guess, the value of the system you grew up with, although you were young when you came over, but the value of the system you grew up with, is that it's all of that, you know what I mean? So but like combining that with kind of the US mentality it's got to be an interesting problem very hard to teach the hardest thing to teach the the getting people to love the idea of focusing on the tiny differences in what they do the same way every day, the tiny differences, because you can't see the tiny differences if you don't do it to sit try to do it the same way all the time, right?

Yes. I'm just trying to listen to every single like the questions, but yeah. The beauty that the art of repetition, just just like you mentioned, and then also, you know, the Kaizen that goes back to the Kaiser Kaiser, sometime Yes, something existing and then make a little bit better than existing state or, you know, like what was it before, but something you set called recipe and then repeat that again and again, and because then we can't know so we have a high bar menu and then signature cocktail menu that, you know, the on the menu, the sections for all the five high bowls and five signature cocktails and five, Boilermakers and the top three is always the same, you know, like kind of stays the same. And I'm sure there's certain amongst like a certain people, there might be a fear of kind of pressure that Oh, I have to constantly changing the menu I have to keep it like exciting and you know, like that, but once we made those perfect three, you know, top highballs and then three signature cocktail, including martini, Negroni twist and then whiskey sour variation and then highballs you know the same we have ginger tonic and vodka soda, essentially it is called metal lime soda. Never comes with a menu but there's very definitely art that just like you go to your or favorite place, you know, it could be a diner could be like, a diver in a neighborhood or your favorite restaurant, you know, always certain your one of your favorite comes out. Absolutely same flavor, same temperature, you know, like the same plating. You know, not too much sauce, but like exactly the amount of the right amount of sauce every single time. And I think that's beautiful.

It's so pretty. It's comforting, very

confident. So that's, that's right. So that I think that's the word that they kind of come back to the service. And, you know, while we do that, do some make sure it's comfortable, I think, approachable, and then it's comfortable, I think,

right? I mean it's interesting though, because cuz I think that's really excel, you know, at this point in my life, right? I have recipes that I've been making pretty much the same way for I don't know, what, 15 years, 1617 years something like this. And, you know, professionally, I mean, not like, you know, at home, you know, but, and sometimes Yeah, you just have to keep focusing on it because you have to keep, sometimes you have to erase in your mind what you know, because the conditions on the ground change and so the product isn't the same as it was when you start it's crazy. Like you have to still be open your entire life to change. Because otherwise you can't see it happening in front of you, you know what I mean? Right?

I think that the mindfulness and the mind of the Kaizen so that's why you notice a difference from the before it's just like I said, like oh this count doesn't taste the same like today you know, like from yesterday and then I don't think that kind of like from the start like beginning of Kaiser I guess I could kind of start noticing maybe the difference.

Alright, so we're gonna go to a commercial break but what I want what I want to take away we come back maybe is masters idea of the spongy brain when you're young and I think the way to stay the peak thing when you get older people, I don't know how old you are listening but when you get older, try to get some of that spongy brain back the hardest thing to do throw away what you know and try to be a beginner and again, no matter what age you are, this way, you can you can keep learning. Anyway spongy brain we'll be back in a minute cooking issues. This episode of Cooking issues brought to you by ora king salmon our favorite fish. Today we have Michael Fabbro from or a king to tell us more about it. Or a king salmon is a king salmon raised or farmed down in New Zealand. Among all the salmon species kings carry more fat and then orange King is particularly rich in fatty we like to think of it as like the wagyu of salmon are fat contents about 25% So 25% fat to lean and the salmon is cured with sugar and salt in it smoked with manuka wood, it's an indigenous wood to New Zealand and down there, it's very traditional that you would smoke meats and fish with this and it also imparts what I think is like a pretty cool flavor. Like I've picked up the shavings of manuka and it kind of has this herb oily almost eucalyptus essence to it so it's a little bit different. Or a king salmon follow them on Instagram at aura King Salman, everybody's favorite fish. And we're back. So I had a question I wanted to get to, because we have Michael Tomasi here today so I know you're experts in Japanese spirits Japanese products. You guys also like know about like Okinawan products as well. Little bit can answer your question about Okinawan product I think so okay just a little bit just a little bit I mean like more than me which is zero I know nothing except for the sugar which is delicious. Do you guys use that Okinawa sugar or not? Yeah, we do. It's good. Yeah, there's different there's so many different kinds every brand every one is a little bit different. Which ones do you which Okinawa sugar do you use

just buy it from so we moved to a new apartment I could ship and then just like we found this Japanese grocery store next to it and just sell it and it's from you know like the kind of like rock sugar but looks like basically to kind of coagulate it molasses kind of looking you know like the not the like rock sugar like kind of sharper edge on the cut but like more like a kind of round like a it's like a little you know, it looks like something but but kind of like a little soft more kind of the powdered edges but the dark cane sugar so they from Okinawa

and but because some have had are very bitter and some just a little bit bitter. Like I don't know which one you like, because the different applications not necessarily better or worse is different. Like do you like it more bitter? More sulfur? Do you like it more? Like a little less? Crazy.

Little less crazy. I think that I use those for especially in the cooking particularly in cooking. Amazing with the pork. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I was apparently they have some amazing pork there too. Right? Never been to Okinawa. I've never been to Okinawa someday I'll go. Okay, so the question was an owl butchered printer Michigan, our Maury, which is, so? So the question was from Panda to DACA was not exactly a question. We'd love it. We could talk about LMRA. I had it for the first time this past summer and loved it very challenging to get on the East Coast. Boy, I'd love to know more about more about it. So if you guys have something to say. Let me know.

But you got Michael.

I mean, from my from my limited knowledge, I would say it's very similar to shochu but it uses a different kinds of cocci, which is a beneficent enzyme that helps turn sugar into turn starch rather into ferments. Will sugar and I believe they use a different strain of rice as well.

Yeah, I forget which which, like I like the Thai rice they like indica Thai rice so that the only my memory of our Mori very particular everyone's tastes change, right like from like when you were young and older and I think that you get older and much more appreciation The more knowledge you have the before you even sipping some salt like Okay, so you already have appreciation appreciation tastes makes things taste taste better. So it's like pretty much like so I'm from that I know the countryside in mainland Japan high school, I believe No, I think it was high school high school junior high field trip, you know, like the everyone's like taking the airplane for first time and then it's going to Okinawa. So that was Okinawa, I think yes. And it went to Okinawa and then what we do like you know, 1350 years old kids you don't like it you drink so, but you don't know how to drink and remember how funky it was. And Emil immediately you know about the way you drink it you know like 1315 is like you drink from the bottle and I remember how funky there was I remember how immediately I got sick that's my awamori impact on my brain to this day until I tasted the modern one recently but I wish they didn't change that like certain brands like started making money or any you know you can do whatever you want but I like more funkiness and the like more kind of uniqueness you know just just stay as it is instead of make a little list this like three times in an hour lesson and last and maybe you can put in the continuous comes down a little smoother you know so you can sell but that's my

what what brand do they ship out here? I don't even know

I'm not sure that they will you know like Skurnik they have they had why the selection of the imports fellas Carnac

skirt. That's great. Yeah. But the that's a distributor by the way out here in New York, but they're good for those of you that don't know we're talking

will be got a big shout out to Justin. Well, but the sorry it is not a Maury, but we we carry the rum from Okinawa. Oh, yeah. But not from mainland Okinawa Okinawa Canada kind of state of Okinawa and the other tiny island called Minami deitel. I think that's the name of the Minami died. So the name of the island. It's called code code. So C O R spacio. Are they have a green one? And the red one? Those are unique rum, from Japan from Okinawa,

and we can pick that up here in New York, right?

You can buy from Yeah,

yeah. So can I tell you my like, so this is a when young when you have something the wrong way. So my first experience with Saki, I had no idea. Now remember, this is in that late? 80s, right? So like in 1989. So I'm like, 1819. And it's really, it's illegal for me because it was already 21 years old, and I wasn't 21. So like, all we knew, back then in the US was, oh, you're supposed to drink this hot. We're supposed to drink this hot. So we went to the wine store. And somehow someone bought us this bottle of sock a, like a little bottle, I still remember it ugly bottle, like really ugly bottle. Really bad quality. Sakis you know, and, and we heated it up. And I went outside to watch a band play. And the minute is touched my lips. I was like, oh, people drink this. Like, this is the worst experience of all time. You know what I mean? And it was many years before I could come back and appreciate it just because if you have something wrong the first time, you know what I mean? Or when you're young or you someone doesn't prime your head, right? It can poison your mind for a long time. That's crazy. traumatizing. Yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned also, I know, like a lot of most of our listeners will already know. Okay, but you have a beginning section where where you talk about it. So let's just, we want to dispel or talk about the differences between showed you and showed you like the difference between them, like Korea versus Japanese like what's going on in the end the difference just so people know, most of our listeners already know, because we have a very technical listener ship, but when you get into it, and then your love of it. I know you work a lot with Ichigo, which is a good company if you want to talk about that too.

Yeah, about the short term soldier soldiers from I believe it's from Korea, or pretty much anywhere like you can make in as much you have a respect for the origin and you can call it the soldier or the short ship. You know, you can I think you can make any children here. You can call it but like you can make it.

Are there any rules here? Do we have rules?

I'm not sure. Do you make American soldier?

Do we have rules? Michael do we have rules?

I have rules. by us, you know, like, there are there are soldiers that have been made in the US. And you can call it soju.

But they're not shot you that I'm not sure of.

So if you had it like Tet like the main difference culturally between the two, what would you say?

Here's the thing. confession to make any Have I ever tried to soju? I'm not sure. Really. I'm not sure. Because even when I was in Japan, even I really drink much shochu either. Like, I like beer, and I like wine.

All right, you tell the story about stealing all of the wine after the guests leave that stealing, not stealing, tasting,

tasting how it grows back there like it wasn't gross at all. I could not like you. 19 years old.

If you read the book, people are like leaving like half glasses of like 82 Latour around was mentioned in the thing and you're like, and of course you taste it. Come on, come on, someone leaves like you know, $1,000 bottle of wine in the in the you're gonna taste it. Absolutely crazy not to

look at this, like, oh, Chateau Lafitte. You know, like, isn't that at nine? Beautiful, you know, like, it's beautiful. And it's like, how come like such a waste the waste of money like this much like this much. Even in the bottom of the bottom of the bottle.

He's showing a full glass with his fingers.

I just pulled it out. And it's all the same.

let it settle. Yeah. I've poured expensive stuff through napkins. I don't know whether you guys have done it. But I mean, I've poured expensive stuff through napkins. I'm not, you know, should use a spins off. Well, that's interesting. It would wonder what how much would aerate it? Think about it. I've never tried to do sediment with the bay. So go ahead. Yeah. So we're talking about like, other shochu. Yeah. So like, Are you saying you weren't drinking it that much, but you use it a lot. Now?