Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Otto, your host of cooking issues coming to you live on newsstands studios from Rockefeller Center in New York City. joined as usual witness dasya of the hammer Lopez. How're you doing? Good? Yeah. Nice. Alright, sweet. I can't wait. I can't wait. We got while we go through who we got. And I'll tell you what I can't wait for we got we got John got John. He's we've slipped positioned to stasis in the John position. And because we didn't know what the status was going to be here, because we pushed to later in the in the thing anyway, so we're glad to have both people but how you doing, John? Great, thanks. Yeah, yep. We got of course, as usual on the controls. Yo, Hasan, how you doing? I'm doing great, guys.

How are you?

And for the last time as our roving Mexican correspondent, we have Jackie molecules Live From where are you? Where are you Mexico City or Wahaca? Again,

welcome still. Stay in Mexico.

Let me ask you a question. Oh, if you're listening, live on Patreon. Call in your questions. 2917410 1507. That's 917-410-1507. Before I ask you this check. Here's what I'm happy about. The next time I see Anastasia Lopez, it will be Christmas hat. And I wait all year for the Lopez. Christmas hat. It's true. And are you going to are you going to just be mean to me withhold the Christmas hat

this year? No. Next Tuesday,

it's more important for her to have the Christmas hat than it is to make me sad. I like that. That's strong.

Didn't you get me the Christmas hat?

No, I'll remember I was gonna get No, I don't know you had it and you lost it for like, less than a suitcase. Yeah, you lost it for a short period of time. And I saw it and I didn't know you had lost it. And I'll I sent you a picture of it. I was like, and then you were like, did you buy it? I was like no why? I lost mine. Remember? I was like yeah, we were all like, we were both super sad. And I went back and it was gone. They didn't have any more of them. And so

he was marks. I can't remember. The best

hat. doesn't light up doesn't need to know. What are your thoughts? What are your general thoughts on lit? Literally lit not like lit like the kids say? Like, like lightheaded? Sweaters like him. You like him?

At the appropriate party? Think IE and ugly sweater party?

Yeah, I don't go to I mean, I'm not invited to those. No, you're

invited to things you just don't go. You just never have anything. Actually.

That's not the case. This is your theory of me, John.

He did something last night. Oh, really? Would you do?

There was a I don't know. It's called friends. Look, Montenegro. Friendsgiving. Okay. Montenegro bought out pouring ribbons for nights. I went there and got to see it's weird. It's like I've seen like a lot of bar people. There's been a bunch of bar events recently. So you know, I go I was like, wow, it feels like an actual community again, Strange. Strange. Okay. Oh, you

knows who we might see is Nick Coleman all the way Oh, man. Oh, yeah. Balloon sometime on the show. Not well, I could have invited him on today but then that would have been a wasted offered

to nude. What do you mean to take oil home?

I'm he's giving me oil for Thanksgiving. And yeah.

Yeah. So if you guys are interested, just ask us like we could get them on. And then I'm like, yeah, let's get them on. Because like, what this guy does is he travels around the world looking for awesome olives, right, the olive oils, then buys them all from particular producers and then distributes them under his own own brand. It's called

Grove and Vine and it comes in magnums and now in like box wine Magnum,

I like a box wine,

box, dollar oil, whatever. But

oil box olive oils is money in the bank, right? Because it never has to see anything. It never gets

by that as your Christmas gift for people because it's everyone loves all

just to give you an idea to go back to what Anastasia said earlier that I don't go out or do anything. Mr. Macias says we should get him on the show. And I'm like, Yes, do it. And then she'll be like, Dave, why don't you want him on the show? I'm like I said yes. Do it. I said let's get him on the show.

Well, we're booked like, through the years. Whatever. Yeah, he's gonna come on.

Okay, so back to back to Jackie molecules in Wahaca. Have you in anticipation of Thanksgiving time? Have you had any delicious? Walk a little day Turkey dishes while you're in Mexico? Yes, absolutely. Talk to us bottom little bit, go go for

just a big turkey leg in a pool of Malay. That's basically the entire dish. I think they call it Fiesta Malay and I guess it's like something that they serve at weddings and celebrations and stuff and I was kind of expected In a pretty showy dish, right you order something called Fiesta moly and I don't know. That's what I was expecting. Yeah,

yes. In your mouth, man. The yeses in your mouth. That's

right. Yeah, this yeses in the flavors. This is the turkey leg in this middle plate in a pool moly and that's it. No garnish is nothing else.

When you were back in Mexico City at the Merced did you go to the Malay spice dealers?

Oh my god. Yeah, it's so intense. There's, if you don't know what you're doing, it's just impossible. There's so many different tastes and powders and yes, great

the pace game in Mexico is so on. Point, the pace game is out of this world because like you got it like they are the so like, every culture has had a what's called quote unquote saddle stone grinding technology at one point, but obviously like, you know, Mexico and the rest of Mesoamerica was like, where the Matata mono became like the the ultimate expression and like the food and this like grinding implement are linked, right? So chocolate would be ground on a Marathi masa would be ground on a Matata. And the Malays would be ground on it. So now they're using different technology, of course, but you go to the Merced. And you know, it's like Jack said these, like, these paste dealers, it's just this rich, like, reddish brown like fragrant crazy and the density, these pace. It's like, Oh, honey scribe, it's like, it's like, I don't know, like, somewhere in between, like a peanut butter and a hollow. You know, I mean, it's like, got some fiber because of all this stuff in it. But yeah, but it's like, and they're just but they're not doing not those colors. It's like this dark richness to them. And they're just so good.

There's a lot. You know what else I saw, I went to this awesome, kind of more rural market outside of Osaka. And there was so many people selling like, rocks of sodium bicarbonate, which was just really cool to see in an open market. Really? A bicarb? Yeah. Yeah. For the, you know, for tears.

Well, that would be cows. Oh, I'm sorry. Calcium hydroxide. Yeah. Yeah, cow. So originally, I was looking into this because it takes a lot of takes a lot of heat to convert. Shells, or mind. Cow calcium carbonate to calcium hydroxide. Right? So I've always thought that originally and some people who do like old school Nexmo zation like the people that mossy ENDA, like that. Originally, maybe it was done with potash, right. So like, like ashes from the fire soaked with you soak that those water, let it sit for a long time and then evaporate that down to a salt like Pearl Ash. I'm guessing the initial stuff before they figured out how to because that's an it's a relatively advanced technology. So I'm guessing slaked lime, so I'm guessing that like the first. The first stuff was probably done with pearl lash, but I've never nixed analyzed with pearl lash before. Someday Someday I'll get back on the I'll get back on the nixtamal train. Turkey domesticated in Mexico didn't know that. Turkey domesticated in Mexico taken I just was talking about this on I was did a interview on the NPR the other West Coast NPR the security Yeah, so like, taken from Mexico back to Europe by the Spanish. Spanish will like look at this a new bird. And then when they don't talk like that, and then reimported by the English who didn't understand that we already had turkeys here. Yeah. So the turkey that and then it was recrossed you know, at some point probably in the in the 17 or 1800s recross with native wild turkeys. So this Mexican goes to Spain gets, you know, done in Europe comes back is in recrossed back with our wild turkeys from here and that's where the American commercial kind of Turkey breed started started coming from. I love me some turkey. I love turkey. I you know what I hate? So what are you feeling some turkey? It's okay. I love it. I when I was growing up, everyone was like, Oh, I'll turkey. It's not that good. But I have it on Thanksgiving. No, no. I love it. I love turkey. I love the smell of Turkey. I love turkey gravy. If someone tries to hand me some chicken gravy. And I'm like, yo, that's chicken gravy. I want turkey gravy. What are your thoughts, John?

Yeah, a great love turkey. It's great to be around more than just for Thanksgiving. Yeah, yeah, Turkey club. Let's just say oh, yeah,

yeah. Do you want a chicken club? No, no,

no turkey. Yeah.

Joe, what's your feeling on the turkey club

all the way to Yeah. Oh, yeah.

I can't wait. By the way. I don't eat the Rest meat on Thanksgiving because I could give a rat's behind about hot breast meat. I eat the dark meat the skin, the tail, right? Turkey Tail. Yeah. Is money in the bank, Turkey? Turkey Tail. Turkey Tail. So like it's so funny if you if you google search Turkey Tail, all you hear about is American Samoa and Polynesian islands. Because when you hack up first of all, I don't you know how big commercial turkeys are not the ones that they sell to his whole but how big like a Tom Turkey is an 18 to 20 week. You ready for it? You ready? 50 pounds 50 pounds? Yeah, bird. It's a big bird. So the birds that we normally eat are females, right? Because they're more in the market weight range. And even even like a female at 18 weeks is still like on the bigger size like 18 to 20 weeks of female Turkey is like 2728 pounds. Of course that's lightweight. That's lightweight. Alright, but like yeah, so you get this like Tom Turkey that's like 50 pounds, and still really young. We don't see those birds in a supermarket. You know what I mean? Those are the ones that are busted up. That's why when you look and when you buy just a turkey breast that double breasted you're like how the hell you get this so big? You know what I mean? It's like it's because it's it's it's that but the tails, they don't sell here. And for a long time, they shipped them all to Polynesian American smoke from like a US producers and so got those folks addicted to them. And then the health people who believe that anything that tastes good is unhealthy was like you're shipping them these things that are unhealthy for them. And there's a big and you know, look there, you shouldn't eat only Turkey tails, they're very high in fat, there's a glander. But like, so they got, they turn into a stigma food like turkey tails turned to a stigma food and to me, they're intensely delicious. You like braise a Turkey Tail, and then you deep fry it and cut it up. And the first time I ever had it this way other than a Thanksgiving eating it, right? The one that you get, and sometimes you need to get them on your birds now sometimes they chop off. If you want to cleanse your turkey, they've chopped off the tail beforehand. You just gotta like you do something mean to them. Do something mean to that person to make up for the fact that they they stolen the best part of the turkey from you. Anyways, the only place I've ever had them and I've mentioned it on the show before is in Juarez why went to Juarez and they have you know, that's another thing that they eat only in. In walrus. It's like a local thing. Kalita de Pavo which is like Turkey Tail that they then shred up and put into a sandwich. So like they'll braise it roasted or fry it off. And then like hack it up and put it in. Oh, my God. I tried to get it for x con. And the chef was not able to source them for me because they're all shipped elsewhere. And it's like it's one of those things where there's a stigma against it. But it tastes better than the stuff that we eat. Anyway, I don't eat the breast meat. I try to save as much as I can for sandwiches because the answer is the leftover turkey sandwich to me. Do you at least like leftover turkey sandwiches? Yeah, I do. What's your How do you like yours?

My mom makes us like green cilantro sauce and then puts that on bread.

Do you have that sauce? Also on the Thanksgiving or just for the leftovers? I appreciate making something for the leftovers. Yeah. Also I like Sumatra a lot. I would try it except for the fact that like I know exactly how I want it. I want it the mayonnaise, the lettuce, the turkey, the slightly toasted, crappy white bread and slice of onion and then I

know stuff stuffing your gravy on there. No, although, Listen,

I'm not going to go hate on what anyone else wants. I also don't put cranberry sauce on my turkey sandwich. My wife Jen appreciates the you know having the you know the other things on it. But no, I I want a sandwich and then I want a big old plate of the stuffing. I want a big plate of this stuff in one year for Thanksgiving. I made all this extra stuffing. And my brother came over for Thanksgiving. And then he had to get up. He got up early in the morning. And he ate half the stuffing and took the other half home. Yo man I was like yo, yo, I was like it's not I don't know why we don't make it all year because we all love the stuffing we grew up with right all of us. Pretty much even Anastasia you like the stuff you grew up with now. Wow. Something static like it's so funny. I never know with you. It's like I grew up with it. I love it or I grew up with it therefore I hate it and it's just like it's just like everything falls into a bucket. There's like It's like anastasius childhood is like a some sort of like, like like Mile High Butte and you fall either into the pit of I Love It or into the pit of I hate it but nothing just stays on that Butte. You know what I mean? Yeah, What kind of stuffing do that does your mom make that you don't like?

I think it's just overs

Yeah, same here stuff. That's why I never really had any affinity for it.

Oh yeah. John, what was your stuffing? Especially

stuffing, breakfast sausage a lot of sage. rehydrated cranberries. Thanks granny smith apple, onions, carrots, celery and carrots and then a mixture of like cornbread stuffing and then you know regular Pepperidge Farm have farms. Nice.

Yeah. What about you? What about you, Joe? What do you got?

Um, I we definitely had we had no sausage in it, which I really kind of fell in love with later in life. But you know, obviously, you know, the sage and the rosemary, different types of breads, never homemade breads. There's usually like a medley of like, some type of Pepperidge Farm breading croutons thing with another type of bread, but I love when the chestnuts are in there. Oh,

we never used to do the chestnuts. Hmm. So for us, we I think this is a little bit different. We only used fresh ish bread, like you know, like not like super light wonder but fresh bread like loaf after load after loaf. Right. And then when you say breakfast sausage, we would get like the like I think they were either 12 ounces or one pound like in tubes Jones brand like you know country sage sausage that you'd you'd par fry and break up. So a bunch of that sauteed mushrooms can mandarin oranges broken up into into pieces, celery, eggs ate but loads of butter, poultry, seasoning, dairy status, sauteed onions. That's that's the main components, you know, salt, pepper, and he's toss all that together. And you got to taste it when it's raw to make sure that it's got the right amount of everything. And everyone's got to sit there and be like, Oh, more this more or that. You know what I mean? And then now,

it's so important to get the moisture level right on stuffing when it's dry stuffing. It's miserable. And when it's too wet, also miserable.

Yeah, yeah. So you'd think you'd think it would be too wet to use the fresh bread but we never have a problem especially because we're not cooking? Because I think a lot of people have to add stock to theirs. You only need to get it up to the right consistency. And we never do because some stock to mine. Yeah, yeah, I don't need to do we know we don't only stuck to it. Alright, so should we answer some questions before we go back into our own things, although I will say this people. If you have the opportunity, buy some turkey bones like one of the nice things about partially de boning a turkey like even taking the back out of it or like I bought I bought it and then drape it over a hot stuffing plug like when I'm not cooking it this year, I'm going to my sister, she just had a baby. So I'm not cooking the turkey this year. But like I typically rip all the bones out and then starting with turkey stock is so much better than starting with a chicken stock or with a canned turkey stock and then reinforcing it with giblets. I grew up with giblet gravy because we didn't make a turkey stock beforehand. So the only real Turkey that went in was the giblets. But in my opinion if you have the opportunity to get some turkey bonds and Turkey backs and make an actual turkey stock that it takes your gravy like to next level Turkey dumb which is like if you if you need to use turkey to reinforce but even if you start with a chicken stock, try to reinforce it with some actual Turkey bones or turkey parts so that it actually tastes like Turkey and not like slightly modified chicken because I don't know if you know this not the same animal. What are you doing with the neck that I roast it and then I usually throw it into the stock pot when I'm making the turkey stock or if you're making the giblet gravy, but the problem is is that every year when I drain the stuff, the neck meats there and then I try to pull it out but by the time it's gone through making stock it's fundamentally useless if you're not going to make stock with it or the giblet gravy I love to roast the neck and the skin gets crispy and then you can eat it and I love picking all the little pieces apart but I'm a little weird that way

but it's a very muscular part of the What does it adding besides just the texture of the skin on the neck? I mean you know for the

for the twist doc Yeah, it's got a lot well it's this thing it's got a lot of little meat in the in the crannies and stuff so you're you know you're it's a good you know, backs and necks is the classic thing to make poultry stocks with just because there's not a lot of like salvageable plate style meat for it, right. So, you know, although if you've ever had stocks made from whole birds or freaking day, so like if you saw Danny Kay's old chicken recipe, which was then used by Jacques Papan and put into his 80s to volume book in colors Aquaman saying his old chicken salad recipe was to put the whole bird in water like you're almost making a chicken old school hen style chicken soup, bring it up, put the lid on it and then let it ride. If you save that well or into that a couple of times it gets really chicken from all this stuff. It's good, but it doesn't have as much body is like a highly boiled like, when I make chicken stock, I always I save all my bones and every time I make chicken I save, I save all the bones in a ziploc in the freezer. And then once I have a couple of gallons of chicken bone saved up, I'll pressure cook stock, I'll do like a double pressure cook stock. I'll do like one round second round. And that stuff is fantastic.

Are you ever dehydrating any of that stock and making like a boil on?

Well, it's so concentrated at that point that you don't need to I think the mistake look like even back when I used to teach at the FCI they used a very, very high water to to, to bone ratio. And it's very light stock. And so to get anything out of it, like you need to do a lot of reduction when you're doing it at home, I think it's better to use like the minimum amount of water like I even have like some bone sticking up out of the water cuz I know it's gonna cook down a little bit. And so it's like a very, you get a more concentrated first stock. And then if you drain that, and you do a double stock based on that, like use that same water twice for two levels of bones, you really don't need to do any reduction at all it's almost ping pong ball hard at that point. You know what I mean? Once it once it cools and settles off. So I tend to use that stuff straight. In fact, the stuff I make is so concentrated that certain dishes if you use only that and you reduce it further, like, you know my family was like That's intense. That's like a lot of like meatiness in a small area. Which you know, I was like, Okay dystonias much of it done. Sounds delicious. Yeah, it's good. It's good business. What are you guys feelings on cranberry? Yeah,

the jelly from the ChemiCon from the candy Yeah,

so you're not a skins in man. No, no, no. Stuff like it. Yeah skins are no skins skins are nice. Strong Koopa for once again skins Joe weary skins to so like the acidity So John, so did for John the sound of Thanksgiving is you know when the things hitting the Yeah, with the rings? Yeah, with the three with it with the little bands. How is it that it can maintain that after it slides out? How is it that it maintains that?

Yeah, no, I do. Love it though.

Here's the question. Here's the question. Orange. Orange juice in the cranberries? Yes or no? Yeah, we got a yes on Joe stuff. Yeah, yeah. Jack, where are you? Yep. I here's something that I don't remember. Here's something I don't recommend. And yet I do it all the time. Anyway, I always look at it. And I'm like I'm making something that is sweet and tart. I want vanilla in it. And then I add vanilla, but it's a mistake. I think it's a mistake. It takes it in a different it tastes great. But it takes it in a different direction that I don't think is really the right direction. Ditto. Adding liquor to it. You know what I mean? Like you're like I'm gonna add a little little thing. And you're like, you know what? No, it didn't want that. It didn't want that. I think a little orange is nice. I don't add zest though. I don't add zest. Just choose. Maybe I should insist. I don't know. I'm not making it this year. So don't have to worry about it. I don't have to worry about it. I love the cranberry. Yeah, yeah. What

do you have to bring?

Dessert? Okay, so sounds like you're really not

happy about? Well, I mean, somebody else could Thanksgiving.

I'm I'm happy with it. I'm happy with it. It's just normally you know, for our Thanksgiving show. We talk about what we're doing and I'm making. I'm making pies. I'm making Parker house rolls everyone loves Parker house rolls. If you don't like a Parker house roll. I mean, stars you hate biscuits, but you like Parker house rolls, right? Yeah, there you go. All right, Parker house rolls. I'm going to make a loaf of normal bread because my brother's fiancee Zoe's a cheese monger. She's going to bring a cheese thing up. So I'm making like some crusty cheese style bread. Bread with which to eat cheese for starting early. I'm going to do the Parker house rolls and then like some pies, three, three pies, pies.

Where are you getting this from?

Where will those interested in? I am I am been reading rereading, rereading and reading again. All of the Monroe Boston Strauss pie marches on like that book is just, I mean, I know I've said it on the air before that book is just crazy. You know, it's interesting. I'm thinking about a lot. He. And remember, he wrote this book originally in the 30s. So it's very highly gendered. It's super gendered his enemy, the person that he saw as his absolute enemy was the housewife. And he calls it so like, not home people, not home cooks. Housewives were his enemy. And so, you know, in his mind, he had, you know, he had lived through a period where you know, no one was baking bread at home really anymore in the 30s and 40s. Right This was something you've allowed commercial bakers to take over that even cakes have been a lot man taken over by kind of commercial cake production but pies He's like, he's like housewife still make pies at home. Damn, not me. He's like their pies are garbage. And so he was out to shut down home pie making, which is why his recipes are only for commercial institutions. And I think why he's not more famous today because all of his recipes were directed at commercial bakers. And strangely for his time, he believed that all bakers should band together and give each other good recipes just so that they could put the housewife out of the pie business. Anyway. So yes, I've been reading a lot of and I'm going to put this I want to put this in your head people. You're probably hearing this too late, unless you're on Patreon. But listen, we as a culture, of pie making people and we are a culture of pie making people in the United States, right, we love pies in general, we love pies, a specific kind of pie. We are obsessed with the flaky crust now. And boss, Monroe Boston Strauss says, I think very smartly, that the flaky crust is garbage. He's like, he's like the long flake crust. He's like, it can be good, right? But he says most of the time, when I and he used to just sit there and watch people eat pies for like days on and he would just sit and watch people eat pies. And he's like, on the long flake crust, when your fork goes through the pie. People don't want to have to pick up a knife and be like and cut through it. Right they want the fork to go through the pie down and hit the plate. And he's like, long flake crust not very good for that don't and and he was using pastry flour, so didn't even have the problem that we have that we're using AP flour for these things with its, you know, concomitant extra gluten, right? So he had an easier time of it. And still he believed that a shorter, shorter like shortening, shorter crust that a fork would pass through was actually the superior crust and he says if you're going to do long flake, which is what he called what we all now call pie crust. He's like, just do it for the top crust. Have the bottom crust of heavier shorter flake and he made a difference. He made a mental difference between meagerly which he didn't really think was good for most things. And short flake so he's like listen, it's not just is it mealy? And we don't no one wants me because it sounds bad. Who Amelie sounds bad. Ooh, really, really crushed me the apples gonna want it. But there's actually this kind of in between land of the short flake pie crust. It says this is what most people actually want when they when they're actually putting a fork through a pie. So there you go. Pie I'm making I am making only it also he originated rolling graham crackers into the crust. So now instead of doing graham cracker crust, I do rolling graham cracker crust. So two of the three pies I'm making a will have rolled in graham cracker. A short flake of course, come on. Although I am going to make a standard apple pie should I do his thing and do long flake top and short flake bottom report back yeah went

up to do it. I'll do it all the way

did yeah. Why do it halfway Exactly. Do it big? Yeah. What song is that? Do it big What song is that? I have no idea. And the rest of it I cannot sing it is not for me to sing. So from Tarik Rushdie a question for the Turkey Day episode, I'd like to make individual cornish hens for people to share instead of a turkey for Thanksgiving. What is the most foolproof method for roasting about five hens at the same time? Also open to non roasting methods. Thanks. Okay, so for all you don't know, like, Cornish hands were like huge when I was a kid. Everyone's like, oh, cornish hens. Cornish hand is just a small chicken. Right? It's like literally the same genetics as a chicken just smaller. So you can cook as for chicken. I'm gonna put this out there though. You ready? I'm going to talk to you. I'm going to give your chicken I'm going to give you your Cornish game game hence their time. But let me just say this my life got changed about five six years ago when I realized that a great answer for large Thanksgivings when you're having a lot of people right? Instead of getting the one monster Turkey is to get a small bird Turkey that you roast whole that you do the table presentation on. And then you get another turkey that you bust into parts and cook out as parts right? Then you can present a whole turkey and you already have one basically parted out and carved now I've done Chicken Fried Chicken Fried like cut up Turkey is great. You cut the breast into like three or four pieces and then you bread and fry them. And you know you can de bone the legs and all this other stuff. But as an alternative to the one big bird. Like my favorite new alternative is the small bird and then act up are because then you can solve the leg problem and the breast problems separately but still present a big bird. You know the whole bird. I mean, yeah, yeah, that's a Cornish game hens, I would just say cook. As for chicken. And as as for cooking that many, it really depends on the size of your oven. If you have a full sheet pan oven, right, then roasting off five hands is not going to be a problem, what the thing that I like to do when I'm roasting birds, if you don't mind, filling your house with smoke is to put the birds on a rack, and then put the drip pan below the rack, and then insulate the drip pan so that it doesn't get scorched, because it really depends like some people's oven, the heat comes from the top and the bottom, if all of the heat from your evidence coming from the bottom, then unless the pan at the bottom has a lot of liquid added to it, it's going to burn and smoke off and then you're going to lose all your drippings and whatnot. But if you suspend the birds a good distance above, and even if you just put a couple of cooling racks on your roasting pan and lift the birds up, so that there's more radiant heat hitting the bottom of your birds and you want to spread the birds out as much as possible, so that they're not shielding themselves from the radiant heat from the side of your oven. And I think that's going to help you have all of the birds kind of look nice if the if all if the bird if the Cornish game hen, if the skin on the side of one cornish game hen is only seeing the skin of the of the Cornish game hen next to it, it's never going to color up. Because you're you're only going to be working with the convective heat, you're not going to get any radiant heat on that thing at all. Because they're rough. They're basically the same temperature those two pieces of skin. And so there's going to be no net heat transfer. So you just want assuming that you have a standard oven with kind of blackish walls where there's good radiation, or even if you have heating elements that provide radiation. If your bird can't see the dark wall or the heating elements, then it's not going to get brown there. So that's, you know, Alternatively, you could low temp them all and then just roast them off like a mother at super high super high heats. Remember this also if they start to color too much, but they're not done on the inside yet, then just throw aluminum foil, there's no difference between shiny side and dull side. Okay, I hate to tell it, hey, look, they infrared which is where all of the radiant energy is that we're worried about in cooking is so big compared to visible light that both sides that aluminum foil are polished as far as the aluminum foil is concerned, there is almost zero difference in the emissivity between the dull side and the shiny side. So stop worrying about it. Put the aluminum foil over the birds but allow them to stay in do that before they get so dark that you don't like it anymore. Because what you're going to want to do is that's going to steam out your skin a little bit. So you're going to want to for the last five minutes, yank that aluminum foil off so you can re crisp up the skin on the outside. You agree you guys

agreed? Yeah. One thing I will mention though, if you do have your cornichons start to close together one way to fix that branding Dave could buy a Sears or

you could buy a Sears all and this leads me to my next point, which is John, we're extending the thing but why? Because you guys didn't buy enough of them. Not you personally, I'm sure like you that listen to the show. I'm sure if you have a need for a sizzle Pro that you've already purchased a sizzle Pro, but not enough other people have done it. So we have to extend because if we don't make the numbers we can't literally can't afford to build it. Yep, is that's where we are at this point in our lives. So there's that people this here's our Pro. I don't know if you know this done. Stars. I don't know. I know you're probably not aware of this Fixer Upper 50% More searing area. You don't say? Did you know that? No. Stars. Get this map gas now. Oh my god. Yeah. Map gas revolutionary. Did you know that? And the thing about the Map gas is is that they're on the original series all it'll burn out the screen. Yeah, but on the new one. Do

we have a chance to call tonight?

No. And we do we do now because I'm aware of firm. I look. I'm going to I'm getting my booster shot. And as far as I know, booster shot wrecks you like booster shot apparently is oh yeah, booster shot, you're down like three days. If you were down one day, and if you were done, this is what I'm still getting it whatever. But if you were down one day on the second, then on the booster you're down like three days. If if you still had good antibodies, right? They're injecting you with this stuff that makes your body think that you're being attacked. Right? That's how it works. Right? Like you're telling your body that you're being attacked, and so your body doesn't respond. Well now, right if you're if your immune system is still good, it's like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, and it makes you feel sick for even longer.

Did you get sick with the first two shots at all?

I got sick on the first I didn't get sick on the first shot. I felt like I mean I still worked but I felt not good. The second who shots who gets two shots? But you got Jane. Oh, yeah, you got it. You got the head Buster the j&j. I don't know, I haven't met anyone who's gotten the j&j booster.

I heard you can get whatever. If he has all interchangeable

now. Yeah, but not by the state of New York in the state of New York. Yeah, like they've opened it to all the adults to get the booster. But unless you're immunocompromised, they're still on the websites to make the what's it called the appointment? You still need to tell them which one you got first. And they're like, needs to be more than six months ago, which is fine. But they they're basically forcing me to get the same one. Maybe not if you walk into a pharmacy, but if you're making it through the New York State find a vaccine thing. They're like, You got to get the same way you got before. So I'm all I'm all modern all day. Mom. Everyone thought Pfizer was the best. But now nobody knows. Yeah. Some people are saying j&j is the best if you get to as long as your head doesn't explode. Right. So I guess I haven't gotten your writing the exploding head demographic? No, no. Mr. Garcia is solidly in the middle of the exploding head demographic. It's still a tiny group of people whose head explodes, raining it

back. I met somebody here. I met a friend and Wahaca. And I was like it and she said, yeah, in Wahaca in Mexico, and I asked her if she was vaccinated, and she said, Yeah, and I said, which one did you get? And she was like, oh, no, my grandma sent me to a shaman and I had the poison of a frog.

Ah, well, I definitely know this. But like, with poison, poison frogs can cure you of being alive, but they can't cure you from getting COVID

Yeah, I think that's the thing. That's true.

Mexican American or not?

Oh, no. Mexican, please. Definitely. She was very walk and

what like, nostos he has a friend on there that maybe you should get these two people to hook up and stasis friend can go get the frog juice. Yeah. Get the frog juice. Yeah. John, what do you got? For me?

I just want to say while we're before we get too far from the series All Pro if you guys follow our Instagram and tag your friends underneath the one of the most recent posts, we're doing a giveaway of this aerosol pro package. So you get a step based and you get the torch and you get this. There's all pro just have to follow us submit as many times as you want. And we're gonna make that announcement on this Friday.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I will be able to There you go. All right. Yeah. The stars here and I even though we have something going like, I have to say I'm not going to talk to any of you guys on the Friday unless I have to. I mean, maybe I'll say how you doing? What's up? Hope you had a good Thanksgiving, but I'm not going to be business talking. He

sounds great.

I'll get my tree on on Friday.

From Coleman, do you have any general tips for dealing with a lack of oven space on Thanksgiving Day, we only have one oven. After the turkey is done. There are various items that will need to be baked fresh, like Parker house rolls Oh yeah, are reheated like sides cooked on prior days, I thought about using a gas grill as an oven. But I've never tried that, you could if you're going to use a gas grill as an oven. What I would recommend is putting down a like a layer of aluminum foil directly over the grates. If you put a layer of aluminum foil over the grades, that's going to stop the radiant heat from coming up from the coals. And then if you put a layer, if you put cooling racks on top of that, close it and then look at the thermometer that's on your grill, you should be able to get a fairly accurate temperature read of going what's going on but you're not going to be getting that intense radiant heat from your burner elements. And so you should be able to keep it at a relatively normal thing. Also good opportunity to buy yourself a countertop of you know what I mean? Like, like, like, you know, look, we don't make any money from them. But like the Breville smart air or equivalent, like they are great at split the smart areas a good size for keeping a bunch of sides, like warm. Another thing is they they might be sold out now but go to a thrift store. And people used to have all of these like turkey ovens and like all of these other things. They're really cheap, right? They look almost like slow cookers, but they're meant for cooking turkeys but they also hold sides really well. And they're they're they're cheap when they're new. They're free at a thrift store. You might find one because people don't know to just have them and then you can just pull it out and have it so that so now if assuming you don't want to do any of that stuff. It's a real problem. The real problem is someone coming to Thanksgiving expecting you to have free oven space. Be a good guest do not expect to have oven space. Do not expect to have oven space. Your Parker house rolls. What I would do is unfortunately yes everyone knows their best right out of the oven, but I would cook them off earlier in the day. Take them out, tent them, then put your turkey and then you can refresh them when the other sides go in, as the turkey is resting because you're gonna need to wrestle Turkey before you cut it anyway. As for the other side's like, You got to tell everyone who comes with their sides. Sorry, we're cooking at one temperature today. So everyone goes into the same temperature and you can multi rack your oven. Even if your oven doesn't have multiple racks if you have little half cooling racks you can as long as you put two racks together so you can space things out and air can get in between them. You can like multi stack certain dishes for reheat to to keep them in. But yeah, I feel you I feel your pain. Right have I given any good advice on this? Guys? I don't know if you guys have any tips for this?

Not really, it's something I'm gonna be juggling as well this year though. I'm doing the turkey on the grill. So that is gonna help save oven space. Turkey

on the grill. Hmm. My mom wants to do it. So I now have bullet in your head song, the sample in your head with Turkey on the grill. Like, you know, anyway. decent job. You see how high I was listening to Yeah, I was listening to Rage Against the Machine yesterday as I was walking to the friends giving event. And I believe that if you play Rage Against the Machine really loudly in your ears as you're walking around that is the equivalent of an extra two or three layers for warmth. I feel like the rage you throw off so much internal heat that like I wouldn't say it was like Canada Goose but I was like I was like wearing like a Patagonia puffer level of extra heat from just you know the the intense loudness of the bulls on parade as I was walking down the street. But if you do walk down the streets of New York City, listening to Rage Against the Machine or the functional equivalent, please be aware that you become more well, you me I become more physically angry when I'm listening to music that I grew up as like anger music listening to. And so you just gotta be careful not to walk in front of the car and get hit. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember once I was biking, and stuff, you know, like I'm a one year following listener in case calls come in. And sometimes if I had music playing, I'll leave it on which I shouldn't while I'm biking because I think it's unsafe. But I was listening to like, some particularly loud sound garden. And I realized I almost got myself killed because you become more aggressive when you're listening to super loud Soundgarden when you're biking around, I think, you know. Yeah, you think it's a safer driving?