Hello and welcome to cookie issues. This is Dave, your host of cookies coming to you live on newsstands studios from Rockefeller Center here in Midtown, New York City joined as usual witness Tassia the hammer Lopez, how're you doing? Good doing well? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We got John. We got John over here. How you doing? Doing great. Thanks. Yeah, yeah, we got Jackie molecules over in California. Hello,

what's up?

Hey, how you doing? And of course, as always our Rockefeller Center booth magnate, Joe Hasan, how you doing? I'm doing great. How are you guys doing great doing great. I have we have to. We have two special guests. Today. ones coming on later in the show, to announce them later when he comes over to Baton now. Right because he cut because you can call in your questions live. If you're a Patreon subscriber. 2917410 1507. That's 917-410-1507 we have today I think, well, I'll just say who it is. It's Joel Giordano from grano our SOS restaurant in Chester, Connecticut. And you've been you've been like a friend of the show since like the beginning kinda. Yeah. Since super early. Yeah. Seems like original Jackie molecules days. I think so.

Yeah. I wrote your intro song, man. Yeah, yeah. What's up, man?

Anastasia, we can't do the metal. Yeah. So I like that. What? The metal the metal version? We resurrected. We'll play once you have it? You can? Can you play it just for like old times sake?

Oh, man, I don't know. It has to be some probably on an old hard drive at this point. That was a long time ago. The shows are given the shows with that theme song. Yeah,

cooking issues. Pretty much right?

That was pretty much it. Yeah.

That's my memory of it. So a little bit of a technical issue. Here today, John, for some reason, it didn't update to my Drive, as far as I find the questions or you can find the questions and read them to me. How about that? Even better? And you know, well, I'm prepared. You know what, if you read the questions, then I can't go off on tangents in the middle of the question.

I don't believe that for a second. It's like me trying to tell you your things in the morning. You still go off on tangents? Do this. Okay.

Well, you know, it's important. We were discussing healthcare. That's true. That was just as more

options for you. Yeah.

Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, it's not that it's like, because like, he's technically the only employee. I don't know what the rules are now. Because, you know, it changes from week to week administration administration. But here in New York, it is not possible for us to buy. No matter how much money we want to spend. It's not possible for us to buy health insurance.

What? really crappy plans?

Well, no, but that's just you personally. Yes. Okay. Yeah, true. True. True. Like you're at your at your Yeah, because of the fact that like, I had to go on my wife's health care, then you need a certain number of people in a company who are going plan for a plan to work. You can't just hire someone and be like, I would like to get you health insurance. No matter how much money you have for it. It's bananas. It's crazy. It's nuts.

Connecticut's like age based. I don't know what it's like here. But you know, it doesn't matter what your income is. The health care premium is based off of your age. So if you have an older employee, the cost is super high.

Well, you know, I get it's so hilarious, because I guess it's like that we don't all plan or hope to get older. We're all betting on Dying Young. We're all like, I'm gonna die tomorrow. In which case, why do you need to save your money to spend it on the health care then, right? I mean, if you're not going to live to be if you're not going to live in order to need the health care later, right? Then why bother saving the money now? Let somebody else use it because you're gonna be gone, you know? Sure. You know, if that's what your plan is, if your plan is gonna be dead, you know what I mean? Yeah. Oops. All right. So on to more so Wait, So what brings you to New York today, Joe? And why don't you talk about your new projects and we've discussed we've discussed many times on the show your restaurant, I think, you know, no offense to other people in the Chester area but I think your restaurant probably clearly the the, you know, the destination restaurant for that entire chunk of the Connecticut River. Am I right? Now that

you said it, yes. Yeah,

I mean, what do you think John? Yeah, agreed.

I think John said it's the best pasta he's ever had.

It's true so that many times oh my god,

you're gonna miss that you're everyone's triggering

it freaking steak. So if we let's just have this argument now so it can be

I don't want I'm not arguing I'm not arguing with you. I'm not getting into it at all

today. You don't want you don't want to discuss pause? No, you can discuss your pasta but I'm not allowed to discuss it with you. No, I'm not allowed to even though I

have learned that our listeners are very sensitive men and I don't want to say anything that pisses them off, especially Patreon subscribers.

Oh yeah, that was that was very unloaded way of saying that the status Yeah, I mean like okay whatever, please you're getting a glimpse people you're getting a glimpse alright so you have the restaurant and one you know you're you know of the of the ilk where you'd like to at least to try to make everything at least once or twice and if you don't feel like you can do a good job you let somebody else do it like you we were talking someone asking ice cream question because later on we have Quinn who has new gelato book out he's going to come on and talk about it I was asking you if you had an ice cream machine and you said no that people across the street make great ice cream across the street from experience it's

honey cone and they do a fantastic job and we can collaborate on flavors and all that kind of stuff

unless you're relatively new yeah yeah within a year we still have that fancy handmade leather person up the block from you or Yeah,

yeah. Oh, he's he's super cool. Drew yeah,

there's So Chester Connecticut but the last time when I had to move out to Chester unfortunately this person had been hired So Chester is a small town used to it has like a stream running through it that he used to run Mills off of what was it textile? What are they doing their guns, guns and cold lived there for a while. Right. So like they had guns and they had like, I guess other sort of industrial stuff like all of Connecticut. That neighborhood actually was where all so like all the people who were kind of like killed by the ivory trade and all the elephants that were killed by the ivory trade, a huge chunk of that ivory, which was really based on the misery and death of both humans and animals ended up getting shipped to that little part of Connecticut to get turned into piano keys. And so like literally, it's like Chester, Deep River, and Ivoryton you'll have places you'll have like a little statue of an elephant. You're like, oh, isn't that cute? No, no, it's not. And then they're like they have a place called like, the keyboard factory. Yeah, keyboard wars. Yeah, that works. Yeah, yeah, key there. You know, it was built on tears and death. Tire neighborhood built on tears and death. And yet another one of those situations where we in the north are like, well, you know, our hands are relatively clean. No, no. Not even a little bit. Not even a little bit. But yes, it's a nice place. And do people in Chester still make fun of the Deep River people? Oh, of course. Yeah. So it's like limited and deep river. Yeah, Deep River. Who's the famous person from? Is it Gretchen miles from deep river anyway, someone like this is from Deep River. And, you know, yeah, so the people in Chester, which is literally like a block away from Deep River, like do nothing but poke fun at, you know, the Cheshire people. But the Deep River people I don't think make fun of the Cheshire people. Right.

I don't think so. I think they probably have a little bit more class. Yeah. And that in that regard. I think they're more respectful.

Aaron. I don't even know how he got on the second wave. It's more blue collar, you know? Yeah. So like right up the block from him that this this person opened right as we left. Oh, I remember what it was. This lady was going around shooting a video for the town of Chester being like, Chester's a walking town. And I was like, what? I'm like, walking from where to where that the middle of Chester is like a block and a half long, right. And it's lovely. And you should go. But yeah, you're walking that block and a half. You walk further in an old school suburban Mall. Then you walk in Chester to go from one side of it to the other. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Hey, sorry, sorry. Sorry, inside baseball people. If you ever gone to the snack shack on Cedar River. See? No.

You mentioned there the last row, I want to know whether it's just me and

for the price. I'm also one of these guys that when the price is right, I'm like, I can't believe that for the price.

I don't really have lobster on my menu right now. Because it's so darn expensive.

Oh, I haven't been this year to the place. We're in check it out.

But um, but either way. Yeah. So the restaurant is insanely busy. Which is awesome. Yeah. We even had a record sales day on Saturday. So give me some perspective. Yeah. Lots of parties. But we're opening up to new businesses that share of course, the dried pasta I talked a little bit about, that's a little family business.

Like, how many pounds a day are you like, how do you measure what you're doing? Like, what are the what are the metrics? Yeah,

so we're starting small. So we're doing about 400 pounds a day. And we're still in r&d. So we haven't released the product yet. But we have the, you know, the boxes done and, you know, the barcode stuff and getting the state approval is kind of sucks, right? Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot of money. Yeah. Well, a lot of money.

So like, what percentage I think people will be if you don't want to talk about you don't wanna talk about what percentage of the money is the box of your cost, not what I'm paying, but of your cost. What percentage is the box? Yeah, it's it's more than half bending. That's like a lot of liquor. The bottle is actually, you know, the bottle is what you're paying for the liquid. I never forget. I'm not gonna say who it was. But I was at a I happen to be at a meeting where a bunch of execs from a bagel liquor company big one big right? And they were talking about this new liquor. And they were like, well, we don't know how much it's gonna cost yet. I'm like, Yeah, but don't understand is like, you know, you know how much it costs to make it. They're like, Oh, that the liquid doesn't matter. It's free. You don't even compare it to like the marketing and all the other who had their gun. I was like, Damn, you know what I mean? It was just like a real eye opener especially on the liquor side how that some of that stuff works. We have some of the stuff say a scarcity price, but a lot of it they get to choose. Yeah, but for you the box is like, you know, flowering dead expensive. While we're in water is not that expensive. You're buying a boatload of Durham are like, yeah, so

So here's, here's what we started with. I tried to work with a I'm not going to name the company with an Italian mill that's based in somewhere in the Midwest, okay. And they have their an Italian name and an Italian company. And we got their flour in and it was complete garbage. And the pasta was like tasteless, and I was like, Well, I bought two pallets of this

without for people to know how many pounds how many how many 50 pound sacks and a pallet? Is it 50 pounds back six?

Yes with you might think it's 60 bags. But anyway, so we're gonna go back to standard General Mills for the majority of

it, and you can't dump that much flour in Chester Creek. It's not that big. No,

but we're going to continue the drying testing with that flour because it's not going to change the dryer itself. The process is going to change when it's more of a flavor thing.

So my impression is all the wheat no matter where it's milk comes from the United States anyway, so presumably, it's the milling that they've messed up.

I don't know. It's flavorless I mean if you did a side by side it's like clear as day.

Yeah, but is it hydration different? Yeah, actually, this

this one that said made for pasta. And that's all they talked me into it. It's anyway, everyone uses this.

You buy one bag first?

I did and then yeah, so I did. Yeah, I don't wanna talk about that. So then I did.

It's gonna get better when I get two pallets.

It's gonna be way better. But anyway, so we're gonna switch to General Mills, which is a consistent fantastic products and then we're going to start to mill in some fresh milk product like rye and all the things we like to do. Are they

like that? I'm trying to decide what the most boring part of my book is going to be and associate you'll how many words Okay, how many words do you think I'm shooting for for the book? Oh, I don't I can't I don't know how to liquid intelligence with 127,000 words. Oh, got it double now. What am I kanji now? This is like, I'm, I'm shooting for the same length of book. All right. Now. Okay. I've written so far. The only section that's completely ready for how boring this is going to be. Mushrooms, mushrooms, mushrooms. I'm still missing a couple recipes, couple of T k's and the mushrooms. Mushrooms already clocked in at about 12,000 words. It's a lot of mushroom writing. Considering that this book is not about like, it's not a lot about recipes. I'm not like, here's how to take a mushroom and turn it it's not that it's more just like let's think about mushrooms. Here's some very simple tasting recipes. And let's think about the mushroom. You know what I mean? Like a lot of that i Yesterday wrote 3500 words on BLT sandwiches because they're delicious. Right? Wow. Now forget all that what's going to be the most boring part it's going to be this starch damaged part. However I think it's the most it's one of the more important parts I don't think people think about starch damage what you know what I'm guessing happened like a good pasta flour right is a durum semolina semolina is going to have large relatively large chunks and not a lot of hardcore starch damage and definitely not a mean some enough and definitely not like a lot of a lot of protein but not a lot of gluten forming ability so that it actually forms right so it was it that they had too much starch damage and it was taking too much water and that's why it was flavorless

you know we tested both side by side we kept the same hydrations for both General Mills and this other unmentionable flour right and we extruded and they almost look the same when they came out however when they dried the color deepened a little bit with the General Mills and the grain was a little bit coarser right the semolina number one so the granules will be coarse and will be kept the same hydration the tests and

this the other one the one that you hate it's still extruded properly at the same hydration

extruded properly at the same hydration. However, the texture on the General Mills was better just in terms of two with the same cook time. So we actually we did side by side tests for both. Yeah, and we just literally like everything about it tastes color, structure the noodle.

Also, the more more starch damage the more enzymatic crap you're going to have before this stuff dries out on you, you know when it dries,

yeah, and while the machine is actually taking a lot of tweaking to get right. So it's it's we We run a glycol through the collar to manage the temperature and it's has to be perfect around 90 degrees to 90 and 100 degrees to extrude. properly,

but southern Italian temperature. Yeah.

Yeah. But but basically getting it out the dye, you're probably wasting 20 pounds to get it to the right, the right length when it comes out of the die evenly because the, the the way that it comes through the the agar is going to come out of the path of least resistance, which is the course in the middle, and then ones on the outside take a little bit longer. So you're kind of like burning a lot. And you can throw it back in, I guess, in re extruded, but I don't think that's a good idea.

Okay, that's gonna help if you don't if you want to, you know, you should sell factory seconds to chumps. That's a great idea. Yeah, you say, hey, chumps, like factory seconds, because you know, I would buy that. And so do you mind talking about what kind of hydration you're shooting for?

Yeah, yeah. So right now, it's way lower than I thought it would be. We're about 24 25%. And I didn't think it would be that low, we at the restaurant extrude at 30%.

Because you don't have as much force behind it. Right. You know, and,

and for the drying purposes, this does help. What we found is that when you tick up the hydration, it does help with the color. And I the only reason we care about the color, of course, is it's gonna go in a box with a window. And if your pasta looks all ashy and kind of white looking, people won't compare that to, you know, you're gonna be in a box next to Marilla. You know, it's like dark, that darker yellow, golden color. So that's the only thing that we're a little bit concerned about from the marketability perspective, or

you never cheat you never hit it with some alkali or something to yellow it up. Should I know, I'm just asking. Like, you know, one of the ways to manipulate color is to cheat, you can add you can add things to it, you know, you can mess with the you can mess with the with the waterslide I don't even think it needs to go to hyper alkaline. I'm not talking about like, yellow, alkaline noodle yellow, I'm just talking like a little bit of a shift towards the basic will probably pop the color.

I mean, we're running the water filter. I mean, it's just a standard of just standard water filter, like drinking

water over there is soft, though. Soft. So our water was you know,

we thought that could be a problem was the water. So we ran it through a filter and there was no flavor change and no texture change when we did that. So to us it just kind of determined like okay, how fast you extruding because you can crank that machine up to 11. It does go up to 11, which is a real Yeah. Sweet Spinal Tap machine. Exactly. So we found that keeping it super low at around four for the speed, you know, relative whatever is a comfortable, kind of like rate to come out and cut. If you go too fast, I think it does, it does ruin the pasta structure a little bit, and it's not going to cut properly it turns into a mess. You can't speed up production that fast. At least for rigatoni, let's first shape or tasting. It's going to be like, you know, the flagship, you know, a ton. And then we're going to do orecchiette, Dan in casserole.

Oh, okay to go to Hardacre cantius.

But it's not going to be the classic hand formed one, it's going to be the extruded version, which is kind of a cheat. But

I told I think I've said this on the air. I never order it ever. And I won't allow anyone at the table to order it with me. Because I know it's gonna be hard. And I've had it happen to me before. It's going to come out. Look, I love or kitty. And when it's good, it's great. But when they mess it up, and they go too far on the L Dante side, and it's freaking raw in the middle. It's happened to us, there's a restaurant, I will never go back to it. The chef is very nice. I like him. And it's been maybe 15 years since this happened. Maybe 12. And you're still you're still feeling it. I'm still feeling it. And Jen ordered the order Kathy. And as soon as she ordered it, I was like and it came and they had like everyone else in the world Park took their Oracle ID and then they didn't do it long enough on their finish. And it was raw.

So this was hand formed work yet they

don't that's been 12 Your I remember is is I was like and I was like you know, obviously you don't second get if your wife doesn't like it. She doesn't like it. She doesn't want it right. I was like, let me try one. And so you know, not double second guessing her but straight up. She was straight up right stuff was wrong. And and then I was like I had to get the server over. And then they argued with us.

Oh no. Yeah. Bad move. Yeah. You don't know. That's them telling you. Yeah,

who cares? Even who care turn it to frickin mush. Because if she took it back to the to whoever was cooking, right, they would have tasted it because they'd be angry at us. They would have tasted it is pre COVID. And then like, you know, they would have been like, Oh, my bad. Oh, snap. You want to name all of

our servers of the restaurant can are more than welcome to come back and throw food in my face. is more than welcome.

So I still get

well, so what we're going to do at we're also opening up a gigantic market in Old Saybrook. So we leased the space on Main Street in Old Saybrook and we're going to do an Italian style market prepared food all that fun stuff. And then we're gonna have like a live pasta making situation for people to come in and view what what's really excited about so with that, you know, you can

use a guitar though I know you hate the guitar. We might you hate the guitar. You've told me you hated the guitar. We

might but listen, the only reason I don't like the guitar is that because it's because it does make a really thick dense noodle depending on on your life.

I've been called that many times. A thick dense noodle. Yeah, you know what my family there's a there's a saying that I can't find an English he's a macaroni with no hole. Okay, that's like an insult. It's like the it's like the opposite of like, he's a long drink of water. It's he's a macaroni with no hole. Don't understand it. It's like it's up there with boss of the toilet. Nobody knows really where it came from.

I've never heard of that. Maria. She's

the boss. She's the boss of the toilet. That's what that like. Does that

mean you occupy it longer? No,

it just means that she's not the boss of anything. She's what she's the boss of the toilet. Oh my god. I mean,

I get it. Yeah. I don't think I'll use it anytime soon. But her

and I don't even know how well the one you should use this. Can if I'm using a direct quote I can I use the sugar honey iced tea word.

You're the one that has the issue. Because we're so used to you ask you to complete

you bleep ready? Blimey. So in my family any sort of thing like if if it himself like that, and like it took me a while to see what that what does that mean? It means the afff if if this if there's if there's a you don't I mean, just do it.

You don't saying that sounds family friendly.

sayings from my boss bought the Boston Boston Italian side of my family anyway. Macaroni with no family saying it doesn't count as a curse. Is that true?

Those are the rules. Those are the rules.

Those rules. Alright, so Alright, so I'm gonna do some live pasta. Where are you building? Where are you making all this dang stuff. There's no room in Chester Altenburg Oh, your factories in Old Saybrook.

Now that's in Guilford. Guilford cheese. Yeah, we're opening up to businesses this year.

What are you taking over from Guilford is a town like on the other side of the highway. So you got like, you have a highway and on one side you have like Madison and the fancy weasels and on the other side, you have Guilford and the Guilford folk. And what Guilford has is Bishop's orchard orchards, which is like an old school, pick your own joint. Are you taking over from Randy to chop down a bunch of apple trees and your plastic thing?

We just released a little warehouse just for the manufacturing. But eventually it will move it to a bigger space. So it was kind of just our goal and kind of thing. But the Yeah, the big it's right on Main Street on an Old Saybrook so 7000 square feet.

Cool. And what about your experiments with drying? How's that been? That sounds like a pain in the butt.

Oh, God. Not so much the process the process is fun. The dryer itself has been a pain in the ass. So

the what size like you don't have you don't have like a travel uni size. Oh, it's holds 50

trays, which the max on it is supposed to be 500 pounds of product. But that's what it says the max is.

What's your cycle time per batch on that,

you know, if you do 10 trays, it's eight hours. If you do the full bit, it takes 12 hours, maybe 15 depends on the shape depends how fast you want to drive. Slower drying does help us drive to faster noodle cracks. We figured that out pretty quick. So you almost have to run full batches to get the machine to work correctly. Which is why it takes so much flour and waste and thrown it out and all that stuff. Yeah, hard to do and small. Again, you need to do the real thing every single time. Yeah, so but yeah, so we basically have to get a moisture meter and then take crack it up in this little DVD thing grinds it for you and then you take the moisture meters from 15 to 20% you're shooting for and what we found was that when you when you go for the dry it goes through cycles and has to be programmed you know it's on and off the the direction of the fan changes and events only when the humidity the relative humidity gets to a certain point. And it goes in the stages and it won't go to the next phase until the the humidity goes down. So the heaters kick on all this kind of stuff. A problem that we ran into was of no fault around. But basically it wasn't wired correctly. They put a transformer on it that shouldn't have been there and the thing blew up and almost gone on fire so so then we had to be shipped new fans installed and pour Emilio had to deal with a bunch of yelling over the phone to Italy of Why did you do this? All that kind of stuff. So but now we're good. We're operation

man. All right. Listen, Quinn, who wrote an ice cream book, Q Dragon is going to call in in a couple of minutes. So let's John want you to read some some questions there?

Alright, first we got Jake excuse me, Jake, Nan Garrow. Hi, David crew, I really enjoyed your YouTube video of the carbonation setup, especially interested in aspects of your kitchen,

you're the only one I love that.

I'm an architect and have designed plenty of kitchens, but mostly focus on aesthetics rather than pure function. I'm looking at redoing my own kitchen and wondering if you have any general suggestions, tips and tricks?

Well, it's interesting that an architect asked because everything that I want, every architect would hate, like, in order to make a kitchen truly functional. And even like, the issue is this, you want as many things out in the open as possible, because you want things to be fast. And like so I want I have my pants hanging in close proximity to my range, I have a bunch of stainless steel bowls, they're stacked I have like, my implements are on the counter, because I don't want to go into a closet to get my KitchenAid to bring it out to put it to use it. So every one of those basic moves is complete anathema to most architects. But I find that if something isn't to hand, then you just don't end up using it in a home environment. And a restaurant is a little bit different. Because you can just tell someone, they have to use it and put it away. Right. I mean, like that's because it's its job, but at home. That's just not the way it works. If it's not out, you know, it's not easy, you're not, you're not going to use it. Some things I think that people could get from restaurants at home speed rack, oh my God having a speed rack at home, like a half a half, like like a full sheet tray, half height rack under counter. I mean, it's not the prettiest thing, but I mean, oh my god when you're doing like Christmas cookies and whatnot, or whatever your equivalent of Christmas cookies is, and you're like, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, and you can cool them off. And then like throw them in the oven, you can like stage them out money also like if you need to in a pinch, you can spread stack your sheets so that you have a big empty space and you can just dump your dirties in as they come in while you're cycling through your dishwasher. But I didn't say should do that. But you can.

Can I tell a quick dishwasher storage so actually put in a commercial dishwasher in my new house?

Oh my goodness. Terrible idea. Why? Because it takes so much electricity. No. Why?

Because while the tanks got to heat up every single time you turn it on, but I bought a bar one my wife is not happy. She In fact, the name that the LPS the little piece of Wow, she hits it. So it's a good party story now,

well my dream which doesn't exist, oh, we got clean kind of hug my dream which doesn't exist is the is a whole machine home washing machine with a with a supplemental boiler so that you could flip it into I need this. I need this done fast mode, because you know what I mean? So you like so you can be like, Yes, I'll do my two hour Bosch silent plan earlier, you know, eco friendly thing. Or I need these things done in the next five minutes. Because we don't need to two and a half minute or one and a half minutes cycles at home. We don't need that. But like a five or 10 minute cycle, even like a 15 minute cycle that was real on your home. Dishwasher would be free game game change.

Well, well, that's that was the intention. I saw I saw with Erickson, how would you like to wash dishes in two minutes? And she goes, why? I just load the thing up. And then when it's fall, I hit on and then I walk away. I said but you know, what if we have like company over, don't you just want to be able to bang out a bunch of dishes and do this? And she says, No, you're gonna do the dishes. Wow. So I lost. So now we're going to buy a brand new dishwasher. I lost. Yeah. So I don't know, I know I have a bar dishwasher. I don't know I'm gonna do

when you're installing a dishwasher people do not. Do not, not, do not not do not not pay attention to their drain line recommendations. If you push your drain line further than they tell you you're supposed to especially those stupid crinkly things, bring them out, ruin the pump, and you're gonna get backed up and then it's just what a heartache. You're constantly gonna be going in there and like, just you know what, just design your kitchen so that the dishwasher can drain properly. That's that's a piece of advice from me to you. And also, of course, foot pedals meet duck foot pedals and good ventilation foot pedals. Good ventilation. Anyone who's ever had the foot pedals is like, they like I don't need a foot pedal. Then they come they use the foot pedal. They're like I need a foot pedal. Same with a Japanese toilet seat. Everyone who's used it. Everyone's like, I don't know who needs it. Who wants to get sprayed in the butt with it with and then they use it like I want to get Britain but everyone everyone Quinn welcome. Can you hear me?

Yes. Hello. Hey, good.

Longtime how's it going? I saw so. So now. So queen, you have a new you have a new gelato book out. Give me the title again.

Gelato obsession

is a gelato obsession. And by the way I appreciate on the cover. There's a series all on the cover. I appreciate the I appreciate appreciate the push out that's very nice. And it's people download it. It's only I think it was five bucks. Right? What was it? $5 good price. Yeah. $5. And where do they get it?

They can go to gelato. obsession.com. That's all one word. And that will redirect you to the purchase page on my website.

Yeah, and it's a $5 investment and I read it. And I very, very highly researched some put some interesting. So first of all, like, you know, typically when you read a gelato or an ice cream, book, least old ones, right, I mean, because remember, I came up with the Arbuckle, which was like, Arbuckle ice cream, which is now I forget who does that book now, but it's the it's currently being by that famous dairy person out of the University of Guelph. Santa, you pronounce that? Wealth? Sack wealth? Is that right? Yeah. How you pronounce that Canadian town? Yeah. Yep. Yeah. What's the name of the book? What is that called? Now? Is it still just called ice cream? That book?

I'm not sure about that. thing. So

anyway, but what's interesting is, is that you've done a it's a very highly technical book, however, it is focused on using home equipment, and is focused on using you, you did all the recipes to be dipped directly out of a minus 20 slash minus four Fahrenheit freezer. So to have it be at shipping temperature directly out of a home freezer. And to me, that was like the biggest like, what? And so like, why don't you talk a little bit about that choice to not temper the ice cream? And to I'm curious whether or not you're having issues with with meltdown, right? Does it melt more quickly? I mean, it's gelato, it's not ice cream. So it's very highly stabilized in does that mean that it's fine to have something that is meant to be served directly out of the freezer? Why don't you Why don't you? Tell me your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I really like timed, it probably does melt a little faster. And obviously, I think the ideal for most jeweler anyways, is, is there a small portion to you know, whoever's having it, and then you eat it quickly. And then as you want more eager to get more, I just thought, you know, many people are going to put the gelato on the counter, or maybe in the fridge, forget about it, and the top layer melts, then they try and serve it and they put it back in the freezer, and then you get degradation really quickly. No, good point. I figure, let's, let's try and make it. Again, some of the recipes do need like a little bit of tempering. But I tried to minimize it as much as possible.

Yeah. And so by and large, they're all fairly highly stabilized. It looks like it you You mean, a lot of them are most of them contain LBG Xanthan as the base as the base thickening units. And that's got to also help with the meltdown though, right?

Yeah, I got a little bit. Okay, good. Some of them also, like fruit based ones. Anything with a high sort of additional water containing ingredient? I also hit it with a little bit of gelatin.

Yeah. And with your acidic ones, you hit him with a little bit of citrate. And that really helps a lot with the anti curdling or is it? I mean, I noticed you said that you don't mind a little bit of micro curdling in your in your recipes. And but the one you said do you seem to get the most problems out of was the grapefruit right?

Again, the grapefruit one has the most straight up citrus juice. And again, I think when I tested it, it did again, sort of micro curdle by remembering your explanation of micro curdling from the milk syrup and liquid intelligence and target when I did the final blend with the citrate as well. It came out, you know, totally smooth.

Let me ask you a question about that because I've never added the citrate to try to fix it. But um, one of the problems that I've had with citrus based like a lemon ice cream, I've never tried it with gelato, but with like an ice cream basis is that you turn it and it's fine. But then if you try to hold it for a day or two, it starts getting real kind of grainy. Sandy, did you have that problem with that? Or is it citrate really helped with that too.

I didn't notice that. And again, when I'm using strong citrus, like lemon lime, that recipe within the book is way more about the best flavor. And then there's only a little bit of juice.

Oh yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, and this isn't going to cause any uh any kind of those curdling issues do you have any with this the other thing I was question with the stabilization is that you're a big fan as you know a lot of people are have milk powder right? You're using it both for the lactose as sweetening thing and I guess also to just to bulk up the solids content. But do you have you had any problems with the the old technical literature said if your lactose level goes too high it comes out of solution during freezing and become Sandy did the and they they call it Sandy Enos right so did you have any issues with that with the milk powder or is the stabilization also helped with that?

I only had issues with that in the recipes Brian corroborated toasted me murder. I have a few the bread and butter recipe, the caramel recipe and the apple pie. If you sort of feel the technique involves pressure cooking mass murder in a jar to turn sticks. And if you go too far, it can stay a little sandy with regular milk murder again, I would say I use it some like conservatively for some recipes. So I never found too much texture issues with that.

Yeah, the the other thing that was fun about it is that for you know you never see this for you know, a book intended to be for home by the way the ice cream machine you use is a typical like you freeze the bowl in the freezer and you do it. So you're talking about

like, Robbie. Thank you $60 Like years ago,

yeah, you said what you said in the book 60 bucks. I mean, the issue with those always for me is that they have a long batch time like 30 minutes, but I would guess the stabilizers are kind of helpful so that you don't get giant crystals even though your batch time is so long, right? Is that the theory? Is that one of the reasons why you did gelato

that's definitely pretty chill. I bring all the bases check close to zero Celsius before the churn

was so how fast what are your batch times looking like on that machine?

1520 Oh, so

that's not bad. I mean, it's better than 2030 1520 30 Yeah. Now Now listen, which somebody should do is donate to you like a countertop professional machine so that you can test it in the in the in the other things. In fact, we have a question. You want to talk about your ice cream question. They're done.

Yeah. From Brady. Excuse me, from Brady Vickers. Are there any worth the worthy alternatives to the Carpigiani? lb 100 have that run on 120 volt power, or maybe other approaches in a home environment that could result in pro level product?

It depends on how much money you have. I mean, all those professional level machines are are over for grant, right a Carpigiani lb 100, which I thought was 120. But looking up I guess it was 220 back and we had 220 plugs at school back when I used to we used to use tailors and we use the Carpigiani lb 100, which I think they've re released. I think they stopped making it for a while and they rereleased it fantastic machines for courts, I think. Right? And for something like that for courts. And they're great. They're nine grant. So like, you know, if you're, if you're rich, you know, if you have nothing but money bleeding out of your ears, then yeah, go get one and Carpigiani makes a 500 mil batch called freeze and go, which sounds like really pleasant. Because it's a little it's a countertop machine. It's got a like an eight or nine minute batch time. And you know, it's awesome vertical, which is nice. It's four and a half grant, you know what I mean? So it's like, How much money do you have, you can get Emery Thompson, which is the American one that's been around since 1909. Some people love it. I've never used one for like four grand, you can get a vertical countertop to cord that plugs into a 110 is air cooled, you know, but it's a many $1,000 problem. And, you know, to get the same batch time as what Quinn's getting. The only alternative really that some semi pro people use in professional restaurants is the is the is the muscle or the Lello, which you're talking about like a $700 problem. You can get it from like JB prints. And that's like eight levels above the like standalone compressor thing that like Cuisinart would come out with but it's still not like Carpigiani level, right? I mean, let's you got to be clear with yourself that that's not going to happen right? The energetics are kind of unfavorable, they have very good compressors. And they're they're heavy like the carpet they'll be 100 ways. I think 250 300 pounds, you know what I mean? And like, even like the smaller to court and re Thompson and Taylor also does make a 110 unit that is just almost the size of the lb 100 But again, none of the chefs I know who've used both Taylor and carpet Johnnie Taylor is fine, but they don't like it as much and if you're going to be spending four grand you really want to spend something on something you don't like quite as much, you know, problematic. But anyway, I think someone you know Quincy, get you just one of these kinds of machines so that you can test the difference and just be like, you know, cuz you've done all this work with with, you know, a certain kind of machine. Wouldn't it be fun to have, you know, the the hyper fancy machine just to see how the recipe differs or how the texture of