Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave on your host of cooking issues coming to you live from the news fan radio joined as usual witness Tassia the hammer Lopez how're you doing? Good doing well? Yeah, you look well. Thanks. Yeah, yeah. Got got John John in the booth with us how you doing? Doing great. Thanks. Yeah, yeah. You in New York these days. Are you in New York basically now full time again. I'll tell you something about New York right now. Unpleasant.

Yeah. All right. While they're hot weather stinky garbage.

Yeah, stinky garbage. People just like wandering into the street like some sort of piece of livestock like trying to get killed by my bike. No, I gave him the jersey Whoa, today stars he would have loved it. Late lady walks. Okay, here's people for those you that don't know. By the way, we had no hazing. I don't. Hey, I'm doing great. How are you? Alright, and we got Jackie, we got Jackie molecules you there. And maybe he's probably muted himself. We have a special guests like she was. And one thing I'll say is one thing first. So I'm going down. And as you know, on the bike lanes here in New York, they're green. And in the bike lane. You're supposed to go as fast as possible, because I'm trying to get somewhere it's it's commuting and it's a bike lane, right? Even though there's signs that were saying restaurants slow down, right? You know what I'm saying? Anyway, but what you don't do is walk with your back to the oncoming bike traffic. If I see you do that, here's what I'm thinking. They're walking towards the cars and then I'll pass them never turn back never wander back into the bike lane. So this person, she wanders back into the bike lane and says, You know what I gave her Oh, not like ding ding ding because that wouldn't be sufficient. You know what I mean? I gave her the full. I gave her the full the full experience. Yeah, I mean, the Yeah, the New York New Jersey, major metropolitan area experience. That doesn't include Connecticut. Well, Connecticut's not really a land of oats. No. Do you consider? Nothing? Nothing. Big Connecticut. It's right next to New York is like freaking Greenwich. Oh. Excuse me, you know what I mean? Like, whereas like everywhere else, you go out to Long Island. You go out to Jersey, you go anywhere you go. Oh, you know what I mean? Like, that's how we do it. Right? You know what I mean? Anyway, good news is that we have today on the show a special guest who we were supposed to have earlier, but we had to cancel because we were moving networks. And we didn't want him to get lost in the shuffle. Pure appeared. Shawn, welcome to the show.

Thank you. Yeah, thank you for having me. It's been

a long time coming. We've known each other since when since like, 2009. And you've never been on the show. I don't think have you?

I don't know. Actually, I have been on the show a very long, long time ago briefly. Because yeah, I wasn't a special guest. I was just talking about fomented stuff. I remember that. Yeah, cuz I love your show. Yeah. Oh, well

appreciate it. Well, you know, we're all big fans, obviously, of us. Let me give you a little bit of like a guess, your background. So pure, I first met you, like I said, in 2009. When I was working at the French Culinary Institute, you were coming in and using our space, because I guess you know, you didn't want to take over your restaurant the time because you were still had the grant. Dakar at that time, I think. And you were training for Iron Chef America. And that's kind of when I met you is, you know, we had mutual friend. You know, airvape Molly there who was our you know, your second on the on the show. And you came in and training and we just kind of like, you know, became friends. And then you gave me a copy of your book ukulele, which was the very first Senegalese cookbook in English, at least here in the United States. It's the first one that I know of. It was crazy. If you look back in 2009, there was nothing. You know what I'm saying? There's nothing.

Yeah, it was quite pioneering at the time. And, you know, this whole thing began for me in the early 90s When I arrived in New York. And you know, New York was already calling itself the food capital of the world. But But Africa was missing. Africa was a part of that world. And I was like, I saw this as an opportunity. Because I know I mean, I came from Senegal and the food is awesome. The oven you've been there. Yeah. Great wood Kota. I took you there. Yeah. We had a great trip. So, you know, I was like, this is an opportunity. I'm going to make it a mission to introduce this food culture. And I never stopped and you're learning that cookbook that you received was the very first one it was part of a broader mission of introducing food culture.

Yeah, cuz there was at the time, right in the 90s. There was like maybe one or two West African restaurants on the west side. And then I guess some up, like above 100 and 16th Street, right kind of in the middle of the island. And but Well, where else was that? Where else was there? Where else were they like what was going on? They weren't part of my food scene at the time because I was pretty Manhattan centric, like the idiot that I am.

No, actually, I'm impressed that you knew about them. They were the those was the very, very first one. When we first arrived. I worked at mine, actually. And when we first arrived, the only way we would have Senegalese food would be women would cook. We lived in a hotel where there was a you know, quote, unquote, hotel on 50th Street. Remember what Time Square looked like back in the days? Oh, yeah. So that hotel was in the middle of Times Square. It was nothing like what you have right now. But those women had set up kitchen in those hotel rooms, and they would cook like for immigrants. And we would just go and grab our food to go and we'd grab our table journal peanut sauce, our lamps to across to the all those great things were cooked outside of hotel room, there was no restaurant, and then early 90s The first restaurant started to come, you know, the ones you mentioned in the in the west side and 115th Street and 116th Street became little Senegal was really how it started

with Shinyanga. Cote. Was she Senegalese

she was Senegalese? Yes. Do you remember her she was in in around the mid not be puking, but in the garment? Yeah. And yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right. I remember,

I lived in a block from that restaurant. I lived a block from that restaurant. And we used to go and that was the first time like, I'd had any of that kind of food at all. And I was like, Oh, my God, what is this? You know what I mean? Like what's going on? And I was very fortunate. Because I don't know if you remember this, but right in that neighborhood. Basically, across the street from Shana cote was the only place I guess, south of Harlem in Manhattan where you could buy that kind of ingredient. It but it was a it was a store for West African food run by Asians

by Korean. I remember that. Well, you taking me back? I was Hell's Kitchen. Yeah. Within tiles kitchen. And yeah, those Korean had all those funky flavors, you know, the fermented conch, the dried fish, you know, all those things. Were there, the lockers, beans, you know, the metadata, all those things that you could find it in the Korean places a big Korean place to have the Africans with just Korea? I don't know. I still don't know. It's still a mystery. We talk about it between immigrants and you're like, wow, who are those guys and how, you know, but they just had a flair, they knew that, you know, there was a community, and that community needed to have access to that, that those ingredients, you know, those ingredients was so important for me, particularly, and many of my peers to stay near, you know, to end do the court and all that harshness of New York, we have to have the good food of home. And that's why that's why we would go by, by any means do to make that would happen. And for me, it's really one of the reasons why I focused on on bringing that food culture to make within you know, it's really self serving, because I missed those levels. Thank God for those in great Korean.

Well, let's think about that for a second. Let's go back to your Lele the first book in 2009. Right. So as opposed to then, like your next book, at least the one that, you know, I know of? is the the big Senegal one, which was when was that in 15? Or something like this? You were 16? Yeah. So. So then, and then just you know, two years ago, you had the fonio cookbook. So that's right, in the yellow book, you pretty much say you're not going to get and, you know, I'd love for you to talk about like maybe like, you know, some of these amazing fermented ingredients like knitted to like gauge like yet. So in your Leila, you're like, you're not going to find it use fish sauce. You know what I mean? Which in itself is interesting, because you talk about the Viet, you know, the group of Vietnamese culture that's in Senegal as well. But so it's kind of an interesting cross. But now when you're writing recipes, like what in your mind has changed about writing a recipe for someone in the US in terms of what they can get?

It Well, now I don't have to have all the stages for sourcing the ingredients because it's more accessible. I mean, personally, I've come up with I created a company that brings those ingredients. And the goal is to be more accessible to have like someone in Kansas City Oh in Missouri, can get the ingredients now just by going to our E commerce platform, but those ingredients are more readily readily available even at Whole Foods. Now you get some of those ingredients. So it's really interesting how 10 years span so much has changed. And Africa is is the is the new frontier, you know, people are more interested into those ingredients. And the great thing is those ingredients are not only really bringing exotic flavor to work within, but there are many treasures as well. So that's really what what you get. Now the difference between your Lilia my first cookbook, and my next cookbook, actually, I'm working on a new cookbook with with this class and and for them, we just signed a new deal. And the cookbook is going to be really everyday cooking everyday African cooking but for American audience so so it's really a different world now. Yeah, that's that's, that's really the the fact.

Well, I know also, like, I don't know, if you want to talk about it. But I know that, you know, for years, part of your mission has been to expose America and bring some of these flavors and his culture here to America, but also to kind of reinvigorate the love of traditional foods back in your home. Right? You want to talk about that?

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. The fact that we have this beautiful traditional cuisine, that has been looked down upon by our own selves, sometimes, particularly when it comes to the ingredients, and this is connected with colonial colonization, you know, Senegal was colonized by the French. And you know, colonization is was a business. You know, the French came with a whole politic for our agriculture, for instance, you know, and it's not only the French, but the British and every part of the world that was colonized, there was a system designed to really enrich the colonizer. So the agricultural system in Senegal, according to the French to focus on growing peanuts, and for for us to grow peanuts, we would have to make sure peanut became a cash crop for the farmers. And the things you don't eat peanuts are the subsistence, we would have to import the grain and the French went to Vietnam because Vietnam was also part of the colonial past. And that would bring the grokken Rice and you know what broken rice is broken rice is the right debris. The leftover of the right after rice is processed the leftover that the Vietnamese used to have for animal feed. So the French brought it to Senegal and the Senegal embraced it, it became part of our national dish know what we call champion, which is like, really flavorful by looking dish. And that's that's prepared with broken rice and imported broken rice at that. So we you know, we have grains, we have our own rice, we have other amazing grains like fonio, and millet and sorghum. But we prefer to bring that to consume that broken rice that we prefer to consume all the things that we're not producing, because of that colonial mentality, you know, we prefer in Senegal, I don't know if you remember, but you can have baguette bread, every every street corner of Dhaka, there's like a kiosk that sells fresh baguette, but we don't grow wheat, this is all part of the French colonial system. So even 60 years after independence, we are still deep in it. So what part of our mission was to make sure we recognize and just bring back those crops that are not only our traditional crops that are much more nutritious for the ones that we are importing, the broken rice has not much nutrition in it, for instance. And in addition, in doing so we supporting our our economy, our farmers as more farmers we're supporting them because we are we are consuming what they are growing and it's more adapted to our system. So this is part of the the mission is to really bring back those traditional crops and those traditional recipes. Great for you and because they're delicious,

also like I remember like the first thing that struck me is that as opposed to here in America like there's such a range of different kinds of aged and fermented products that aren't it's not like I think most of the time in America we either eat something that's all the way you know strongly fermented or aged or, or are completely fresh and nothing in between and there's such a range but I think you're telling me that a lot of those kinds of cool like while these are very age that are very fermented, but like gauge or like net to to which we can talk about we're being replaced by kind of more industrial products like like, is it pronounced Maggie? Maggi the cube I don't know.

Maggie Maggie is It depends what part of Senegal you are both both both from fishing right and and that abuse is so wrong. You know, Maggie has Maggie whichever you want. Coop machine you know so is a cube with a cube in French, the cube Mary has replaced those those products are amazing flavors, you know, those fermented knitted to and guys, because those products, they're strong, you know, sometimes people feel like, you know, it's the strong salty flavor is not really something they want to have in their kitchen or in their home, you know, they just prefer Maggie because it doesn't smell like that, but not realizing that, you know, when you cook, the flavor of the stench is is fading into wonderful flavor in addition to being very good for you, in addition to bringing so much money to your cooking, the Maggi is, like, you know, being used and abused, you know, people are using magic, I've seen people just crumbling magic cube directly in their sauce on their sauce, beef right before eating, you know, it becomes you know, this is an addiction even, you know, and it's unfortunate because those companies are coming with so much math, a big marketing campaign, you have big billboard, in the car in all the streets of Senegal, this promoting those cubes and saying this is better than you know, it's more convenient than using, you know, fermented control or dried Gaggia dried fish or yet or all those things. So you know, and that same mentality keeps going, we think we are like, becoming modern, by using those cubes that are manufactured rather than using the traditional natural fermented ingredients, which are, you know, so much better in terms of cooking as a chef, I know the difference when I cook with a yet or when I cook is magic, you know, it's like is this like night and day, you know, yet automated brings so much flavor, so much more natural flavor. So you know, so that's, that's the sad reality of modern times, people are just trying to cut corners and go fast. And Maggie is like serving that. But I'm really trying to do work with your LMI company in bringing those levels bringing our data for instance, we figured out a way to dehydrate our data, and you just sprinkle it so it doesn't even have that that strong, funky smell when you bring it into your into your kitchen, you know, because otherwise the lock has been you know, it's a lot of being from a tree fruit. The end the feed of that food is is cemented so it's like it's it becomes wet and and we mean it has a strong man that force that's true. But if you dehydrated that smell tends to go away. So this is what we're doing we come in with ingenious way of like, bringing the flavors without having the inconvenience of the smell of Dodo. Well, I have so much better than

cube so you you're selling it you think more Americans are going to know it because I only know what the way you taught me is Netta too. But it's also Dolla dolla and also in western Nigeria. It's

yeah, you and I both Nigerians yeah and and somebody in Mali and Guinea and native to in Senegal so since Nigerians almost a quarter billion people on the planet. Otherwise the name that's more popular.

Yeah. So I have some of your stuff here. And I don't do you guys are you guys used it the guys in the studio here John Anastasia and Joe have you used ninja two or Valladolid before? No, no. All right. So it is true. So like you know When Pierre first gave it to me, you know showed me in the markets in Senegal it comes in like a ball right here like in a it's like a or or, or little pucks or a ball chunks. And so it's true that this dehydrated so what I did was is I have his dehydrated powder here. And then I just put some in oil in in my kitchen and toasted in the pan to and when you toasted very like in oil and you fry it a little bit. You get all of these aromas of like meat and cheese and savory but then it goes into like a much more mellow I would say nutty savory, kind of a note when you say so here you guys are gonna smell the raw and maybe if you like put a little water you can smell what smells like when It rehydrates but that's not going to as Peter says Not that I'm worried about my kitchen getting stumped up but that's not going to stink up your kitchen. But then smell this one once it's cooked. See the difference? John is smelling them. Oh, that's really nice. super nerdy. Yeah, it gets very naughty.

No did they even know this done this like chocolate flavor? Yeah, they could get with Yeah, it's just an amazing product. And like mobile products,

in races in stews, and it doesn't have to be even in with African flavors. It works well with with American flavors, you know, like with with any, any tomato base, do ripe pear like

yep, you can make a nice tomato sauce, like even a pasta sauce and you bring a whole other new dimension to your layers of flavor that you will get something that you cannot fail to notice that is pleasant is really, really pleasant. Like I said, I mean, umami.

I've even used it in cream based. I mean, I, you know, again, like, I'm not a traditionalist in any sort of anywhere. But it's like, you know, like, it's really good. But again, like, when you put it in, it's going to volatilize in your kitchen, your kitchen is going to fill with the aroma of Netta, too. But then, as it's flashing off, your dish itself is becoming more like I say, more savory and more nutty. And once you once you're used to cooking with it, the smell of it cooking, is the is the indication that in the future, you're going to get that delicious taste. And then you also like the smell, right? And, you know, it's kind of like once you're used to cooking with fish sauce or something like this, you know?

That's great. That's great. I like how you describe it, because this is really true. You know, now I can work by home that's using our dogs when they're cooking. And I'm like, already starting to salivate the scan like, like a reaction, because I know that this is the test that's going to come after you know this, that smell in that kitchen can just trigger something in my in my in my taste buds, so I can I can see what's coming up.

So it's just one available yet Dolla dolla know,

that thou otherwise is available soon, very, very soon. It's actually at Woodlands right now we found a sourcing, we bring in our data from Burkina Faso at the moment and from Ghana. So it will be available very soon. Check out your lilia.com. And that's one of our upcoming ingredients. But we already have it in one in a couple of our products. You know in our fonio pilaf, we have our Dawa, we have the afro funk, which is the name of one of our fun because the fun aspect of our data. And we also have powerful new chips. Now I don't know if I told you we just launched chips in the market. And one of them. Yeah, we just launched four flavors of gifts. Now we have the salt chips, we have the green that have Moringa. In it, we have the sea salt dimension, we have the apple one with the witching hour in it. So it's really nice and crispy has a nice crispy texture. You know, fonio has really an interesting texture when you may turn it into chips. It's crisp, but it's sturdy enough that you can use it to dip or sauce or salsa. And the one without our is just amazing mix of natural with it. I have a couple of natural recipes in the FTO allele.com. If you go to the website, you'll see you know you see the chips you can get the chips on the website. So you can get the kids at Whole Foods and at target as well. So it's it's it's on the process, and that you can get the whatever flavor any

Yeah, don't go with just Whole Foods. You got to diversify, as we know. We just got mutilated by not diversifying. It's the worst. Well, actually, I'm glad you talked about this. Because the reason we were like oh, we need to get Pierre on isn't because you know, I love your books and your and your cooking, which I do. It's because you started this business and a lot of our listeners are interested in starting a food business. And I know it's really hard. And you've been you're working on it for maybe even four or five years before you launched. You were talking about fonio back in 2013. You were already connecting with farmers and all this other stuff. And then in in 2017, you started this business, you will LA to bring these foods to the United States. And that's got to be an incredibly complicated thing. And so we just wanted to have you on to kind of talk about that process for people that are interested.

Yeah, yeah. Like you said, you were there when I started being interested in bringing the ingredients it was even before when it's a theme, you know, earlier if you if you notice, in my first cookbook, I talked about four new already. And I talk about those ingredients. And that's it all happened organically really. Again, when I first arrived in New York City, African food was missing. And I saw it as an opportunity. So I started the catering business that became my first restaurant. My very first restaurant was before but maganda character it was called yo Lily. It was invested in an area where nothing existed, really. Restaurants, leather on a sit down African Bistro. So that restaurant turned into another restaurant. And then I noticed as I was writing my cookbooks, I noticed another opportunity was the reader didn't have access to the ingredients, you know, so I wanted it to be an awesome way to bring those ingredients this also another way to continue a broader mission of bringing this food culture. So I'm like, if I'm going to bring the ingredients to the readers, I should do it in a way that's not only Sustainable, but that really supports the small farming communities that are growing those ingredients. Because those communities, they don't have markets for those ingredients, you know, like the Dow, for instance, the market was very limited. But even worse for for new because the grains like fonio, the market was just for the subsistence of the farmer, he was just for the locals, you know, you would go even to cities like Dhaka, or Abidjan or Lagos, you'd have problems finding phone, you know, you would find easily like I mentioned, you'd find with that we don't grow, you'd find baguette bread that we don't go, you'd find, you know, imported broken rice and things of that sort that our own grain didn't have market. So the goal for me really, was to figure out a way to bring markets to the small farming community in a way to bring economic prosperity or opportunities to those regions. Because if you go to those regions, you realize one thing is the poverty, you know, the poverty in rural Africa is just so, so vast, you one thing you notice is most of the men are gone. They're trying to they're migrating, they're trying to get to Europe, for looking for opportunities, looking for work, there's no work there. And they cannot make a dignified living from the farming that they're doing. So that's the reason for your Lily to figure out a way to bring economic opportunities by opening markets for their products, because they have amazing products. I mean, you take talk about formula, he told you so much of our formula, but formula is this amazing grain is resilient, been around 5000 years, it's gluten free is very, very nutritious. But in addition to that is great for the environment, so grain that grows in poor soil, and that restores the soil because it has deep roots, that regenerates the soil that adds nutrients to the soil. It's a grind of drought resistant, which is very important. Now we having a water crisis, you know, especially with the climate change, that the crisis that we're facing, you know, it's important to think about grains crops like fonio. So that was the idea for fonio, for me was the grain that was checking all the boxes.

And so for people who don't know, like fonio is a tiny, tiny, tiny millet. It's like a very special very old tiny millet, you know, is that we say it's accurate. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's from the millet family. Absolutely. It's, it's caused very low on the glycemic index. So it's recommended for people with diabetes back home, that's what they give to people with diabetes. And it's, it's rich into amino acids that are deficient in most major grain, those are cysteine. And methionine in mind, they're very important for human growth. So there's so much going on for for new, it's very rich in fiber, for instance. So what I was thinking, very naively, though, at the time was like, I'm going to turn this local non grain into a world class crop, the old like, very nice, but not that we need, get me seeing a bigger picture, like this grain can transform this rural Africa, this way, grain can really turn these farmers into importers, you know, like and many them just change the situation, economic situation, at least. So that was really the ambition without knowing that there was going to be so many challenges that had to create a chain of value that would go from the farmers all the way to the shelves of the supermarket in America, you know, any endeavor in Africa, obviously, you know, the goal was really to turn it into a global crop back home in Africa, in America. Now, we are even starting to distribute in Europe. So that was the goal. So you know, it started with a dream. But you know, how do I do it now? So the question, I'm sure many of your projects, wondering. So, you know, I thought the best way was to have the right team, you know, first thing I did, I partnered with my co founder, actually, his name is Phil Tebow. And he's also a veteran in the food industry is built around, way back in the back in the days when they were starting to bring quinoa in America, like I'm talking about, like 20 plus years ago. And, you know, I liked his experience. And I also like the fact that we didn't want formula to be quinoa story,

you wanted to tell the story of why quinoa was problematic for those that weren't keeping up with the whole quinoa nightmare.

Yes, yes. So quinoa, quinoa became this grain that became quickly very popular. So Quinoa is a game that's produced in Latin America, in the Andes, you know, Chile, Peru, that area. And it was mentioned when just like fonio quinoa has been around 3000 years for new actually has been around five 1000 years. And for for big part of those 3000 years, it was just consumed by those people in those regions. And then it got discovered by by the consumers, global consumers. And big there was a boom around quinoa. And that was the problem, because when there was a boom, the supply wasn't there, you know, so a boom is always followed by the bust. You know, that's really the law of the market. That's nature, right.

And the locals couldn't afford to buy their own product anymore, right? You had people, local people.

Exactly. Because because there was a boom, the demand, people were coming from all over to buy the quinoa. And the farmers are like, okay, so you you want it so bad, you know, the prices were going all over the place, and the locals couldn't afford it. Because you know, they were Dallas coming to buy. So you know, the pesos couldn't compete with it. So this is what happened. And this is what we didn't want for for new, we didn't want a boom for for new, we wanted to make sure as your allele is growing and bringing for new and formulas becoming more popular, wanted to make sure the supply is there, we wanted to make sure we support the farmers now it's important, you know, it has to be the design has to, to be to make sense, you know, and it makes sense. If you put the farmers and the environment as a priority, you know, and then you know, it, the chain goes all the way to the to the to the shelves of the supermarket, but the farmers have to be able to produce for you. So what we realize is, by at the supply side, you know, like I said, fonio grows in poor soil. No, there's a nickname for fonio. They call it the lazy farmers crop. Why? Because it's so easy to grow, you know, all you need to do is to throw the seed, when the first rain comes, and you're guaranteed to have a harvest of Fornia regardless of how the season of rain comes on, you don't need to kill the soil. You don't need to do much work, you don't need any fertilizers, you don't need any any pesticide or anything for now is so sturdy and resilient. So we thought the challenge was for noodle was in the processing, you know, like Dave, you mentioned is a tiny, tiny type of millet is tiny grain. And each grain is covered with a skin that's inedible. So you have to remove that skin before fonio becomes food. And the farmers was spending so much time to process it. The first they were using a pestle, you know mortar and pestle, which would take two hours, just to process one kilo for new was really really long and tedious process, then

you're shaking your head saying she's not gonna do it, she's like, I'm not doing it.

You don't have to do it anymore. You got to you got to let that come and cleaned up for you. But what what we realize, you know, is not only that process was taking so long, but the waste in that process during that process, even when the processing started to become mechanized, you know, there was some machine that came up that was processing for you locally, you know, but it still was along. And the way it was was, was amazing, it was almost 50% of waste, which was crazy. So we realized that we needed to focus into the processing aspect and into research as well. So we worked with researchers, local researchers in Senegal, in Mali, in collaboration with Cornell University here and just to improve the agriculture for new and something that we came up with was just growing realize that just going for new enroll can almost double the production the yield of for new because before like I said, for now we'll just dispatch which is just throw it when you grow it you just throw the seed and then anywhere on the field that is going to grow but if you grow it is planted in Row you can have a higher yield or not dabble. And another way if you effect if you have a better way of processing it, which was which is what we did we were working with local industrials to bring a mill that will process for new at one time or three times per hour. So it's like we're gonna have a close to 100,000 a week for now. Processed with and without without the waste without the 50,000 waste

limit on growing collection is double the limit on growing was delivered on processing not the limit on the land.

Exactly. Exactly. The land is plentiful. You know, you know where the land is for new growth in an area called the Sahara, which is south of the Sahara. There's plenty of land. You know, the land is like dry and arid, not much growth, but fonio can thrive in that area. So there's plenty of land, or the farmers need to focus on now is to keep growing for you on that land. And what they do not only they grow for you on that land, but we encourage them to do it the traditional way, which is growing in rotation, you know, they will grow for you in one season. And then they will grow another crop that's called Bambara beans, which is also a crop that adds nitrogen to the soil. And that allows the soil to be ready for the next one to season. So it's really the way the way to not only enrich the soil, respect the soil, really the environment, but it slows the advance of the desert. So we want to do that in addition to planting certain types of trees, those trees are called a Cassia. That they also add, they also add nutrition to those nutrients to the soil. And

you can get the gum out of or no.

Yes, absolutely. Those are the ones that the local one, so So you great question that you just asked. So the communities, the local communities, they have different ways of bringing income into their communities. Because the A Cassia you can get gums and you can get income from the gum the arabic gum, if there's a big business out of that. And then you have the for new and then you have the Bambara been the number of beans is another interesting crop. It's an ancient crop that looks like like peanuts. It tastes like peanuts, but it doesn't have the allergens of peanuts. And it gets replaced by peanuts because peanuts was so much easier to process and that's what happened you know, with with modern time we looking for the shortcut, and we end up going started to disappear, the Bambara beans started to disappear, you only see it locally. So the goal is your learners to bring back that that crop number being an open market for that just like what we did we score new in doing so we're doing

in West Africa, when they say groundnut, they mean Pinot. They don't mean this other one do they? Or do they mean this other one?

Where it was it was the other one first than that it became Venus because Venus is the one that you see everywhere now. But it was ground up it was Bambara being that's what it was. Can you roast them the

same way roasted peanut.

You can roast them, you can boil them, you can turn them into milk, you can you know you can do so much with the same thing you do with it. The difference is the shell is harder you have to crack the shell. The way you do is work peanuts is the best this the best I love where I grew up eating my parents are from the south of Senegal, over there. That's what's how we eat peanuts. We boiled it. And then when I saw that they were boiling peanuts, in southern America in southern food as well as like wow, you know, you make the connection. But obviously, you know, the Middle Passage, there's so much food that came from from West Africa to like New Orleans and Louisiana and Carolinas, both in us land. That's why that's where you see this coming from Carolinas. I love it.

I gotta get some questions in before we run out of time, although I do. The one bad thing about switching to this new better production system that you have is you no longer have the motto. You throw it and you grow it which is a great model to tell any farmer Yes. Right? You throw it and you grow it. That's it

Yeah, no, it's that model is still gonna stay you know, it's just that there's got to be making sure the production is increasing, the demand is increasing. Otherwise we have another quinoa story. And the sad thing when you have another quinoa story, not only the locals cannot get the quinoa but the quinoa is being grown in other parts of the world because the demand has is still increasing. So now you have Kinema grown in Ukraine in Texas in Montana and this is something we also trying to do to protect we want to protect the name fonio on a regional level so that it appellation is going to be just for that region of origin you know just like you do in France is the champagne and in the with the wines and all that so that's what we're working on right now with the NFL

I guess there's there's a there's precedents for that with different varieties of rice right like you can't grow Can you right all right well no I think yeah

absolutely. Absolutely. There's a you know the the basmati and they they Indians at certain parts have their own but if you call it if you have it here you have to have a slightly different name but it's not the same race you know, you cannot call it that race that that variety is a few few of the crops like that so you know we have a model to use.

Alright, Darren asked Darren Bhangra fast is anyone making a fonio millet beer that is available in the US I've had some home brewed Birkin knobby version called dolo but never seen anything like it in the US now. I know that you were working with Brooklyn with Garrett. And they did a couple of batches. But did it ever? Is it ever going to happen commercially or? No?

Absolutely, absolutely. It's going to happen commercially. That is absolutely delicious. Garrett Oliver, from Brooklyn beer approached me when he knew about what I was doing this for new. And, you know, he approached me in that same spirit. His idea was, if you turn it into a beer, there's gonna be so much fun for new use for that. And that's going to support the small farming communities where the Fornia is coming from. And we said, absolutely. So it started with a good idea. And then he imported a few on the phone to do his testing. And then it turned out that for you, Bill was amazing testing Bill Garrett was so excited. He was like, wow, you know, I mean, I thought I was just doing a good action, but it's like an amazing beer. And we tasted it. And we started passing it around. And everyone at Brooklyn group was so excited. And so so we were allowing it, you know, we had given a name Turanga for the beer. And we were launching it in when, when the pandemic hit, the biggest the biggest distribution was in the bars and restaurants. So we put a stop on it. But they started they started distributing it even in Japan because you know, Brooklyn Brewery is owned by a bigger brewery Japan is brewery so it's like, it's this really didn't Japan and then he's very excited. We recently got a big order for new again from Brooklyn Brewery the is going on. It's really gonna happen.

Yeah. I've had it. It's good. You we had it at the Mossad fundraiser once,

right? That's right. Yeah. There we go. That's right. It's right. How'd you like it?

Sounds delicious. Everyone liked it. Now that's different from in your forget which book whether it's the fonio book or the Senegal book, you have a recipe for fonio beer, but that's more of like a home a home beer where it's sugar and fonio not like what they're doing at Brooklyn.

That's a different that's the one there and he's talking about the guy who has the question. Yeah, but he had it in Burkina Faso, you know, in Burkina Faso, if dollar they call it dollar admin. There he is. Right? It's made with Sonia for the most part. It's an it's It's beer, technically, but it's not the beer that you would have in you know, in the market here. You know, first of all, it's really easy to drink at room temperature very warm, and it knocks you out for real, it knocks you out but it's it's it's $1 it's a you know, you get you get addicted to it, though, if you like it, you know, it's it's a great, it's a great deal. You see it everywhere, not only in Burkina Faso, all the way to Zimbabwe, you have made these kind of green beards that are popular in Africa. Well,

if you ever, ever workout and get to go back meal, you'll get me to try so I still does your guy if you're if you're a coconut, one guy still alive or know which one? The coconut wine guy in Casa man says he's still alive or is he dead?

Yeah, yeah. You know, I? It's a good question. I think it's still alive. He was in very good health. I haven't been I was in Canada recently, just last month, actually. But just for day, you know, I was in Dhaka to defend the menu at the Pullman hotel that the signature there and I want to cover mass for brief, vivid, didn't get to the village know that. I think he's, you know, he looks great. So I think he's still alive. That guy has like, great shape and great diet. So I don't think I don't think COVID got to him.

Maybe he was climbing trees when he was at you said right. He's

exactly. Yeah. Use of climbing trees. Well, I

mean, let's hope mean, some like, you know, one of these days, I'm gonna get to go there in February and see the rice harvest. Sunday. Yeah, before I'm dead. Maybe we'll see. You Central Valley. Rodin wants to know up here how you switched from math and physics to becoming a chef.

Well, that's another that's another story. But But yeah, I started as a math and physics student, actually. Dhaka University. And from Dhaka University. No, late 80s. We were very political. Especially in Senegal, there was a lot of student unrest. And I was part of that, that that system, the students were on strike, we went on strike for so long that that year, the government decided to shut down the school system, because we've had so many days of strike, and we had to start all over. And this is really how everything started. For me. That's how I got a student visa to come to the US. I was on my way to just finishing my degrees in physics and chemistry. I was on my way to Ohio out of workplaces. And I stopped by New York, because, you know, I had a friend who lived in New York, and I was like, everyone wants to see New York at least once you know before you die. So that was my thing. I'm like gonna stop by New York, and be here for one week too. weeks, and then go to Ohio and just stay there and do my studies. And when I arrived in New York, when I mentioned Times Square, that's where we stayed dives were in that in ad sites where it was like crack it with me and aid. And it was it was crazy crazy. And all those pawnshops in order