Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan the Rockefeller Center newsstand studios, not joined as usual with the Stasi hammer Lopez. Even though she is a grown woman, she is helping a friend of hers move. How're you doing stuff?

Oh my God, I am good. Yeah,

grown woman. Grown Woman. Little known fact, back in the day anastasius thing used to be, well, you'll help me move. And then her favorite thing to do would be to rent the tiniest Zip Car possible to move all of her crap. And there's also, you know, Anastasia, like most of us, like most of us this fasciae loves loves like a fifth or sixth floor walk up. She's like, is it basically illegal to walk up that many stairs? Let's get my friends to move. Yeah, that's that's this is I guess. This is karma. I don't know why we're paying for your karma. But there you go. You don't I mean, I hope that I pay for my own karma and that nobody else pays for my karma anyway. also joined a rock in the booth. Here we got Joe Hasan, how're you doing?

I'm doing great.

I like that. You're gonna get that that's like, some sort of 70s like, sorry, the bad mute finger. I like that bad mute finger. Oh my God. What a great band. What did they cover? Is that like a? That's that's a Soundgarden cover band. Bad mute finger, right?

It's like right next to the suck button. So yeah, yeah. Sweet.

All right. Behind me we have again this week. John. Hello. How you doing? Doing great. Thanks. Yeah, yeah. How's that? How's that chef and treating you over at it at the Temperance? It's great. Having fun

saw Sargon the other day one of our listeners Yeah. And then another purse another. I didn't catch your name, Patreon listener but I was gonna give you Twinkies and you left like right before I was supposed to give you the Twinkies with your daughter and wife. Is

it a fancy Twinkie?

It was like a test on a TwinCAT. And I'm not getting the batter right yet. I also don't think the Twinkie pan itself is very good.

I have a tweet. I have several Twinkie pans. If it's,

you can see where it's browning in weird places and saying pretty pale in other places.

Yeah, yeah. Then. Here's another thing about Twinkies. The actual Twinkie like I love them, but they're not good. Maybe the problem is that the Twinkie is not good. Twinkie is not actually a well made product. If you had never had a Twinkie before and I hand you a Twinkie. You'd be like, Why is this cake? So gummy on the outside and yet so dry in the middle? And the goop is fine, but it's not like what you would make yourself. My point is that I love Twinkies. What if someone handed you a Twinkie? And you've never had a Twinkie before? You'd be like, knee? Come back to me when you fix the cake?

Um, maybe I don't know dude, I love Twinkies.

I also like Twinkies what's the most you've ever eaten in one shot?

Man I don't know maybe like five or

610 She says you know why they come in at 10 bucks I saw not coming to you is it 20 hater Yeah, you know I mean all right. In California rocking the discord we got we got my man Jackie molecules How you doing?

I'm very good and 10 Twinkies one sounds really disgusting do a lot anyway you know what I washed it down with

gonna make to make it even grosser Mountain Dew. Oh no, I love I love myself some Mountain Dew. And by the way, it was Diet Mountain Dew back in the day no no. Diet tonic water, a liter of Schweppes. diatonic water out of 10 Twinkies and the leader of Schweppes, diatonic water, and I was learning physics. It was the summer times and I was taking a summer class on physics. And that's what but my physics teacher his daily lunch was in stank up the whole room was one of those giant tins of kippered fish, you know on tama, so we will be talking about physics and he would like bust out his weird skinny tall dude. And he would bust out his Kipper snacks and be like, we're like oh man with the kippers with kippers again. They're good though. I do like Kipper snacks. So I'm going to introduce our guests so that he can weigh in on whatever is gonna go on, but we have a we have John's sommelier. So there's also somebody else on the phone too. Oh, really? Who they miss. Oh, Quinn Jesus. Yeah, well, he's coming in. He's Quinn. Quinn. futurae is actually the star of the show today because all the way from Canada he shipped us a care package of Canadian treats that we're going to be tasting alongside our other special guests. Sorry when my mind is fried because it's the UN General Assembly here. And like I thought it wasn't gonna make it to the studio in time. And we have a lot to get through. But today's in studio guest is a virtual San Miguel who is the sawmill? Yeah, John, what do you think when people say Somalia? Does it bend you? Are you okay with it?

I mean, it bends me a little bit but you know, it is what it is.

Give me this give me the full French So many. Oh, yeah. One more time. Some of you Oh, yeah. All right. So Virgil is I'm just gonna say Psalms. I don't have to wherever Rector beverage manager, what's better? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, there's no, there's no like international like, there's no like International Society of beverage directors. You know what I mean? People don't take tests to see whether they rate as a top end beverage director. That's just like, yeah, I want to give you a title about beverage director. Did you order the cases of Pepsi beverage director anyway, okay for me, whatever, whatever it has its place. So, anyway, so, maybe you can explain to me Virgil, why the place is called temperance, even though obviously it is not a temperance. Why are NYT Tell me some of the philosophy behind

Yeah, well, I What this will be for my for my boss, John, he says that, after pandemic, he they assume that people will be well, temperance just means moderation, not and has nothing to do with the temperance movement and back into prohibition. Alright, so

it's not related to like carry nation and No, no, nothing American temperance.

I just basically, just in moderation, like they assume that people after the pandemic will do everything in moderation. I still kind of contradict to like 100 wines by the glass.

And that hasn't been my experience. Exactly. Well do things in moderation. Yeah. After the pandemic come back to. Alright, so virtual, well, real quick, just so people can get so you started in coffee and then moved to wine? Yeah,

I was in coffee business for a while I was been in the hospitality industry like work as a housekeeper in in Aspen, Colorado. Oh,

my God. Like the people suck. Right? He was not the people but I mean, come on. I seem like it's just crazy. They're not connected to reality. A lot of money No. Connection.

No, I love I spent it's like I'm like a semi local don't ever go to I know a lot of people. But

what's it like working with people who are completely disconnected from reality?

It's, you learn a lot from them in a way that you kind of curious what they do for a living? How, how, but some of the very nice, really nice people are very down to earth. And you don't often see them like bragging or hear them bragging about stuff. You will just like eavesdrop and like hear them talking about their private lane. I asked one guests, Caitlyn. I used to work in a coffee shop and Aspen is one guest if what airlines they took I said no, we have our own jet. Yeah, yeah. No biggie. Exactly. No biggie. That's just like us. Right? That's, yeah. So yeah, I started as a working housekeeper. working as a bartender, nationally in Aspen, in New York as well and a work as in the coffee shop for like, 10 years because I like the craziness. The crazy science behind coffee.

So what's the difference making coffee at altitude? Oh,

it's, we have to change the machine. We have to calibrate it almost every three hours. Because it's it's changed a lot. temperature affects the cost. So so dry up. It's so dry. Yeah, yeah.

What's the relative humidity up there? Like 1110 11% Something crazy? Yeah.

Yeah, it's

crazy. It's I actually just did a whole bunch of studies on flour, moisture and relative humidity that no one's gonna care about, but I'll maybe I'll put it on Twitter later. So yeah, so Okay, so So you're in Aspen for like, 10 years, then?

No, on and off? Probably three years, roughly. Geez. Yeah.

Yeah. I've said on the air before, the only time I've ever been winded doing bartending was when I flew into Aspen and had to 10 bar at the top of the mountain that night. Oh, my God, it like takes it out of you going up to heights because I'm not used to saying hello lander. Alright, so then you moved. We're here to New York, New York,

working some restaurants back in 2009. And I was always fascinated with wine. But it's, it's a hard business to get into it. You need to study a lot. You need to know a lot of people good connections. And you need to drink a lot of wines. And it took me a while to really get into break into that like business.

Yeah, it is kind of closed off in that way to also like, I found that sommeliers are the hardest group of people to hang with when you go out because they just can take down oceans of liquid and they're just like bartenders. I mean, it's just nuts. Like, it's just crazy.

Yeah, I think we build up his tolerance hurt and get hurt. While a bad one thing about similia Most of Malia that I know don't like shots. They don't drink shots.

Why would you those shots aren't actually I'm sorry, I'm gonna I'm alienated first of all, anyone from Colorado already today. I take it back. back. And also, like I'm about to alienate like everybody else. But like, I don't like shots either.

I don't like to I'm not a fan of shots.

What's the point? Like, I will drink enough? If I want to get drunk, I will drink enough over the course of the night. You know what I mean? I don't need that. And that's very dangerous, too. Yeah, it's just not. This is why I think first of all the traditional shots toward it's always at the end of the night, which is the worst time to have shots, right? This is why I think every bar should have a potted plant near the bar somewhere, so that people like me can just dump their shots into the potted plant without looking too rude. You know? I mean, it has to be very alcohol tolerant plant. Alright, so I have a couple of questions for you. So Jackie molecules who's rockin up in LA over there, like, you know, enjoying whatever is happening in LA. He thinks that if he was on a first date, I'm getting your opinion. Virgil. He's on a first date. And she brings to his house, a bottle of $12 California mirlo That he should just be like the state's over Goodbye. What do you think?

That's a very, that depends who the person is. I guess that we can. Because, like for me if you're going to bring me wine like you get to backtrack. I will not do he just died. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yes. Yes. A few days ago. Yeah. I will not say like no to it. I will. I will still drink it because I respect to someone.

I mean, Jack not a snob.

I am not a snob at all. The opposite.

Wine Yeah, yeah. All right. All right. And secondly, I need to hear this story before another week goes by because you know, we want to talk about it. So the Stasi is in this on this island off the coast of Sicily. Am I correct? Stars? Yeah, yeah. And someone was cooking, right? She's not allowed at a restaurant. And they they served you a horse. How was it?

Oh my god. It was very ironi like incredibly irony and chewy. And it was like, shredded horse.

Like tacos. Yeah.

Yeah. Like that kind of horse like on bread. Horse on bread, like had a flavor. Horse on bread. Yeah. But the flavor was just like, like, almost like liver. It was bad. did not like it. I really didn't like it. Plus, there were horses standing like a couple feet away. So you're like looking at them eating them? Did you say hey, body when you were eating? No, no. Although the restaurant didn't have a bathroom. And when I said I needed to use the bathroom. They said oh, just go by the horses. And so I

It's the circle of poo. Right? Do you eat them? It's just goes around. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. And see? Yeah. Any other interesting food stories from from that island? No, that's the most sounds like an old horse. Like a lot of animals when they get old. I mean, I've heard horse meats. Very dark. Right. But a lot of animals when they get older, get more and more. Kind of that irony. Like livery tasting stuff. John, you're a you're a Francophile. So you've you've taken down some Shavon was it? Shavon Shavon? Yeah, you've taken down some of that stuff in the in the past? What are your thoughts on it? Didn't Stasi just have bad horse?

I think so. I don't know. I've had it a steaks before and Belgium. Yeah. And it's they're pretty tasty. I would. You know, if I go back and it's on the menu, I'd probably get it again. So what you're seeing more generally and irony,

are you are you saying Anastasia had the equivalent of like deep fried Gator like whatever the Sicilian equivalent of some Bayou weirdo who just like shot, cut apart an alligator and threw it in their freezer and then sold it to Anastasia and Piper. She had the equivalent of that and Sicily whatever that equivalent is, I guess the equivalent of like, you know, the guy on the Connecticut River with a tire fire and a handle of Jack Borge. Cattle Morgan's Yeah. All right. Yes. All right, fine. I like that. I like I like, I like seeing whatever the you know, the local folks are really like not they're not the sanitized version. I want the you know, the actual version, you know, the fewest teeth possible is the most accurate version of wherever you're going, you know. Okay, so, since we have a limited time here, why don't we Why don't you guys organize the tasting and I'll tell a little bit of because because virtual brought some wines to taste and Quinn sent us this crazy care package, but I don't know how we're going to combine these stuff. We should save all the acidic stuff for later. Right. So John, why don't you figure out like what we're going to like what we're going to pair with what and I'll just mention Bagel fest real quick. I was at the Bagel fest this weekend. And it was much more mellow welfare than the very first Bagel fest. The first Bagel fest was like cute, like crazy, like, overrun with people. But I was a judge. So I had to eat like 14 Different bagels. And by the way, I apologize in advance. Every time we do a well, the one time we did a wine tasting show, it was half the people's favorite show ever and half the people's least favorite show of all time, including John John hated that show, right? Does. She want to be able to talk she's on. John hated that show. I didn't even know John. He listened to it. He listened to it. And he was like, oh, yeah, that's just yeah, now that he's on it. I'm sure he'll like it. Anyone that gets a taste of wine is gonna be fine. But this is not a rock and roll line show. It's not a rock and roll line show. It's still just food related. Yeah, food related, man. So at Bagel fest, there are a lot of really cool new bagel places that are coming out. They're doing a newer style of bagel, like very chewy, crunchy, or, like very good crust. But I see a lot of people with lighter interiors, people using interesting flowers. If you're in New Haven, checkout Olmo or if you are anywhere where pop up bagel is, is doing something go check out pop up bagel and the weeded people the pizza folks out in Brooklyn are now making a bagel and it's definitely worth going and trying there. That's a complete sourdough bagel. The person who's using the flower that I think is the flower that I think is the most interesting are the Omo folks. Craig what's his name? I don't know in in New Haven, but if you're anywhere near New Haven go check out almost bagels you've had a John I have not but I know of them. Yeah. They're bagel is really good. And it's I don't want to like necessarily give out. Although he'll tell you all of his secrets. I think we should just have him on the show at some point because his bagel is completely non traditional from soup to nuts. He's using Warthog. The wheat he's using his Warthog. He's using an 82% extraction flour. And 82 to 87% extraction flour off of a stone grind with a sift is my absolute favorite style of flour to use. And he's the only person I know in the bagel in the bagel community. I'm sure there are others but he's the one I know of that's using it and he's also doing some other interesting stuff. So what else? What else? Well, alright, so have you guys curated our tasting now. Now

I think so. I'm gonna show ya got some virtual you want to start with the hickory

stuff? So we take we Diggory we taste a wine we take a question. Okay, we taste the wine we take like as we're tasting the wine, we take the questions the sound fair, so we get through some of these flavors. Alright, so what are we doing?

So first, we're gonna take these these diamon variety from Channing daughters in Long Island, the graveyard sells from Finger Lakes, but wineries in Hamptons.

Okay. And has New York have been able to overcome the prop the value proposition problem where it's just much more expensive to make wine per bottle in New York, and it is in California. So it's hard to get a good deal here. They haven't fixed that problem yet. I think they already

fixed that. Is there a more reasonable price now in wine in New York, California, Napa Valley. Land itself is very expensive compared to Finger Lakes. Right? Say like Paul had just bought a property in Finger Lakes as well. Because it's cheaper and right because the weather's nicer.

It used to be that like years ago, like a decade ago, it was like the value proposition on New York wasn't as high because their economies of scale hadn't reached where they needed to reach yet you know, so you think that they've fixed that in fact, it's better than California now? Yeah. Value?

Oh, yeah. And yeah, I think the the number of winemaker grew was to roll

you have a glass Oh, yeah. What am I I'm a beast. I'm just I'm I'm King Chucky Cheese, the third just brushing away the pan on the desk. Did you guys see that? When Charles like became king, and he had this like pen thing on the desk? He's like, away with this. Yeah, it's awesome. You don't really care about the Royals, but that was a hilarious, hilarious thing. Alright. So describe this. Describe this. Describe it real quick again. So it's a it's a

it's a giant on variety. Diamond is a New York grapes. Basically, it's a hybrid of Concorde. And a Yona Yona is amazing. Yeah, it's it's your to New York. It doesn't really. It's kind of like, you only find it in New York. It's kind of hard to grow somewhere else.

Is this picture from the grapes of New York? Is it one of the oh, you know that book? The grapes in New York?

I'm not sure I'm not up Hedrick. Yeah. Well, I'll

look it up. I'll look up that picture. And I'll see if it's from the grapes in New York, but it's one of the greatest. Well, it's one of the top six New York fruit books but that's not saying a lot because they're all from that one series.

Yes. Yeah. All right. Diamond is very grippy. Very good. Yeah. See, it's gotta fight. Yeah, almost smell like how much the bottle is and it's bubbly. It's about $20 to glass. So we're by the glass bar. Everything's priced by the glass everybody someone's gonna buy the bottle I guess multiply it to five All right, simply

knowing that I'm at like in a store or going to the store. No, it

is available in the store. You can actually go to Channing daughters in Hamptons and I can get a bottle is so it's super like 25 It may be,

so it's super Foxy. So any European, if any European can hear me they would hate the hell out of this. They would hate

it. Yeah. But you know the mascara is kind of the same group you notice Well, yeah, but

they they have a visceral internal reaction to that smell.

Exactly. Yeah,

I think they're wrong. Yeah. I don't think this is clothing or effed up. What do you think? Your half European there? What do you think? No, I like this a lot. Your half a euro.

So lightly bubbly is the best bet not about like, 10% alcohol on this one. They started like breakfast wine.

Right? So it's got like, it's got, does it have a little acetic? In the back? Or now? A little acetic? In the back? What are your thoughts on acetic? In wine? Your I think it works okay, in this one, but like in general SCT what worries me a little bit, but

I said it's a very important compound of wine. It's serve as a preservative as well as why why is higher acids often good for aging?

Right. But I mean, there's a difference between like a Malic, or like, a target or lacquer and acetic. Right. So like, you know, like, like a sort of, like, acetic aroma. Like, I know, there's been some, especially audio and natural wine. There's been volume in

that kind of like EA tell us a

little bit. There's not a lot here. There's some reds. So you're okay with a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Especially I guess in this style it would work with whereas it wouldn't work in? I don't know. I don't know.

Yeah. It's bring some complexity in wine.

So just a Freud asks. I'm sure there's a long paper with a definitive answer. But what causes the dry mouth in quotes, scare quotes. My wife calls him scare quotes. I think that's what editors call them. Do. You heard that term scare? Quotes? scare quotes, scare quotes? Yeah. So it's like, dry mouth. So you're supposed to put quotes around it and supposed to make it look scary. Oh, scare quotes. So like editors frown on the scare quotes, but I use them sometimes. But not even to make people scared just to be like, I don't mean this, but this is what people say. But of course now I'm not allowed to say this is what people say anymore because of our cultural experience with how that works now, anyway, but what causes the dry mouth feeling when drinking red wine? Voice is attributed to tenants but I honestly have no clue. And if the first part of this doesn't have an answer, what does it mean for a wine to be tannic mean? So do you have a point of view on on tannins?

Tannins is a phenolic compound of wine. So you have anthocyanins that gives a color and you have the tiny that gives structure basically, that's directly responsible for dryness on your mouth. It's the filling of astringency kind of in your mouth. The reason why that happens is because tannin binds with protein. So once you have drink the wine, it's immediately combined with the protein in your mouth. And when you split the wine, you will see a lot of like solidify a kind of like mucus almost looks like in that in a market,

sell it virtual

well because of that, so it's a it's a ton and it's a compound is very important one it's an antioxidant as well. It's protect your wine. So wine at high and tannin tends to demand food they keep giving you drinking wine at very high attending you need for it for that, or you need to age it a little bit more.

All right and and John, what are we eating with? With our Channing daughters?

were caught on focaccia.

What No, no, no, not at the restaurant. Oh, that's interesting. What are we doing right now? I just passed me to hickies hickory. So this is a Canadian take on Andy cap fry. But with smoke flavor. Mostly. Looks like it looks like a smoke end cap. You guys have all had a handicap fries. Right? You guys know what I'm talking about? Joe Joe can have some of these you can have some of these right? Alright, so I'm gonna I'm gonna you guys true while I talk and then I'm gonna and then I will go back and stay away from the micro people will threaten to murder us. So you should take just a Freud take a like a wine that has a lot of skin contact. Same grape with a lot of skin contact with like red What I mean is not skin Tech, I mean like red wine, and then a white wine made from the same grape. And you can see because one the drying stuff comes from the skins which is where all of the poly phenols are or taste things like tea, but in your mind, you have to separate the bitterness because tannins aren't bitter. They're just that thing that binds with your mouth like Virgil was saying so what's a good what's a good grape? 10 and not tannin white to red same grape. What's a good wine? They should do a side by side on just to see the effect of the skins tannins. This could be you know Yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, they're lighter than Super tanning.

But if you never if you never had a bhaga try bhaga we shouldn't have actually here. Bye, guys very time. unique wine. A Cabernet Sauvignon as well as of course who were coming from but they tend to be high in tanning that's why the they're good for aging. Right?

So yeah, so just try one that's white and one that's red same great tannic not tanning. And you can see what the tannins are,

right? Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's like, I thought you're gonna make like the

same. Like, like, okay, you know who makes a good white sin? Have you had the totallys whites and I just had it for the first time. It's good, dude. It's dry. It's good. You know what I mean? laughing at me, John Blitzer. We

spent so much time with the Skurnik right, Christina Turley?

Yeah, but since they have a white Zen, that's like really not that expensive. It's like $30 in the store. Right? And, and it's good. And then you could taste that against one of their like, monster fruit balm giant.

Was that three? Like white zinfandel? No. Oh, no, the dry whites?

Yeah, it's dry. It's, uh, you know, blisteringly drive, but it's like, dry and it's got a light color to it. Because, you know? Yeah, yeah, because it's freaking Zinfandel.

Yeah, I like I like Zinfandel, a good Zinfandel. But tanning also can can be coming from the seeds or stem or even though can contribute tanning.

Yeah. So if you are going to do a white versus a red, make sure you get an unoaked one steel tank only now listen, I'm going to try this off. Often thing what do we think of the hickory sticks? enjoyable?

I liked it.

Yeah. I love it.

Oh, yeah. Can we show the bag in the camera so everyone can see

ya. Um, for that. I use a lot of hickory. I use a lot of hickory powder. Quinn, you you're a fan of the hickory sticks.

Okay, that was one of my dad's elections. All right. All right.

I mean, which ones John? Are we going to have the actual Hockin cheeses with because that's the real rubber No, that's the Canadian question. All right, so what's the second one we're going to have second line we're gonna have

second we're gonna have is another one from Fingerlakes This is a wrestling The reason why I bought this recently because there are a lot of misconception about wrestling. That's always sweet. But this wrestling is 2019 Vintage from fingerlike to swell by Nathan Kay it's really dry

is this one thanks is this one completely unoxidized because if it is I have a test. I have a test for you to do later at the end and oxidize Yeah, it's a good you're gonna like this test. I think Harold McGee says that I'm not right. So we'll see. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens all right. So wait, you say Nathan for you

Nathan K. Oh, anything. Okay. Nathan K is amazing. Winemaker who's from Finger Lakes. So after like, I think studying working abroad and came back and Finger Lakes and made his wine is a very dry Riesling. It doesn't have these petrol, the tdn on Riesling?

No, but you know, it's weird. I've always associated that kind of body in the mid palate on reasoning with that kind of Petrolia thing, but it has that body but not the other thing. It's weird, right? So I guess it's two different compounds that cause that. Like there's a almost a thickness to read like a body in the back. Like, I don't know how to describe what do you think, John? What's your What are your thoughts?

It's good. I don't know. I'm terrible at describing.

She's Louise man.

She's like segmented grape juice

tastes like from integrators. Well, so this, this question, and you what are we going to eat with this? Well, I read sargans question. I realize you're in orange wine bar. So there's not only orange one, not only orange one, I realize you're in orange wine bar. So this question may not be as welcome I understand all most if not all wines, use a suffering agent. People believe that suffering agent is the thing that gives them headaches. I'm curious if you consider giving people gel capsules, Allah MSG, have said compound one real and then to placebo and seeing if they get a headache or not. It could be a fun gimmick. And second, I realize you're not supposed to add a lot of software to natural wine to halt fermentation. I've got to imagine this leads to a lot of spoilage and some amount of inconsistent product. You can see that right Sargon that's why old folks don't like natural wine and young folks do right? I don't know. That's the that's the what's it called? The What's that? Remember when fabulous and Jeremiah came on John? Yeah. And that was the argument we had is like I'm old. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Why don't natural winemakers employ other pasteurization methods such as lighter radiation. These are as natural as the sun although doing it in a bottle may be difficult. I gotta imagine doing it in his thin film is possible. And I Sargon you should go read sulfide concentration and the occurrence of headaches in young adults a prospective study from I believe Twitter like around 2017 to 2019. It is available online without a paywall, so you can check it out. And their conclusion is in our group of subjects, so if I concentration in wine is related to the risk of developing headaches and individuals who are susceptible to wine induced headaches, and the methods were with, well, they actually did it with wine, but they did it by doping it with sulfates. Turn up the problem is is that you can taste the sulfide sometimes. Anyway, what are your thoughts original

thought is most of the headache not directly because of the sulfites. It's because of dehydration when you drink wine you it's a very refreshing drink, especially white wine. So you forgot to like drink water and so often the headache is from the hydration sulfites and that we use sulfides as well. It's it's, it's a byproduct of fermentation of wine when you ferment it, it's produced sulfites. It's about like 10 MG milligrams for like a liter. And the recommend that I believe the limit in America is about 350 If I'm not mistaken and we use about like 30 to 50 only sort of very low sulfites only that we use to protect it's a preserve preservative anyway.

I mean, there are some people that I think don't measure it and Jack the sulfites and I do know that some people have actual like pre hardcore reactions. Yeah, sulfites

are sensitive at sulfites. And that is it's I'm not saying yeah, wheat barley.

So John had his taste with this. I'm not sure why. Ketchup potato chip was very acidic. Can I get well How about how about one of the How about one of the toffees to clear them out? Yeah, let's just pass on. So So Quinn, you're Canadian. First of all, I hope everyone who's listening knows that potato chip. Manufacturers change the flavors of their of their products from place to place. So like as you travel the world, you should get roasted chicken potato chips in every country you go to because the flavor is going to change slightly from location to location. And that's one of the ones I like to test is roasted roasted chicken potato chips. I had a really good one in Senegal, Senegalese roast, roast chicken potato chips were pretty on point. And also you should taste you should every country you go to you should buy bouillon cubes because the bouillon cubes also taste different from country to country because they make them for whatever the local kind of culture is. So back to ketchup potato chips. I'm assuming that Quinn that the ketchup potato chips that you sent us from Canada? I think they taste different from the ketchup potato chips I've had here. They're I would say more tomato li What do you guys think about the ketchup? Potato chips?

Yep, more tomato. You know, it's not as cut up as I thought they'd be.

Oh, do you know what? Okay, so do you want some more tomato eus? Ketchup is Sir Kensington's is a more tomato ketchup. So if you're if like if you have a gripe with them, it's actually because their ketchup is more tomato II than the one you know then heights the one that force as Wesley Willis said hice America's favorite ketchup. I'm gonna clear out my palate with this. And let me ask Wait, you

just said Wesley Willis like as in the guy from Chicago who had What's everyone know back when he was alive? Right? Yeah, of course. Did you get ahead bada boom.

My wish I never got to meet him. And then he died. So he died in 2003 Right. I forgot on 2002 I didn't get turned on to him until like nine until like 2000 2001 After Napster so I only got turned on to him like right I think before he died,

like drag city do some like Archive collective of his works and stuff like that. I don't know. I had a CD or 45

I haven't changed man. I have a zillion was the will the songs and the DAX and I love listened to the gin hates it right. But the fact of the matter is that one of the problems was so as the Willis was he was schizophrenic and a lot of the times he lived on the street he did amazing artwork you should look at Wesley Willis. His artwork is basically an outsider artists, not basically was he was was an outsider artist. And he also did this music so he had this Casio or whatever it was, and he would play the standard beats on the Casio, like being meaning meaning meaning meaning meaning like that, and then he would do these, he had a very set structure to his songs. And so a lot of people thought that you know that those of us that listen to Wesley Willis, listen to him, kind of to make fun of him. Right? But the fact of the matter is, is that there is a real genius to Willie Wesley Willis his work and so while I'm sure there are some people who are listening to it, like haha, this is crap. That's not the way I listened to it. You know what I mean? Like, I I appreciate the guy's work, you know what I mean? And so like the structure is, you know, he'll tell a very matter of fact story, then he'll have like a weird chorus it goes with it. Then there'll be a long long bridge where he just like goes up and down like sometimes chromatic sometimes not on his Casio. Then he'll come back and he'll just say an advertising phrase, you know, kites America's favorite ketchup, and then silver. That's a song.

And he when you were you were introduced to him. He had voted you in the head, which was a his one of his favorite things to do. And you were very lucky if you were head butted.

Yeah. And so he, he had all these stories where, like most of most of his violent songs are, where he's positing violence against the voices in his head. So he's like, saw them as personified demons. And he called them I mean, schizophrenic demons. And so like, one of my favorites is my keyboard got damage that song? And he's like, you know? Yes. So he basically these demons say some, you know, say something to him. He's like, suddenly I yell at you on the airplane. And then he gets kicked off of the airplane as keyboard flies to Florida. My keyboard flew to Florida without me. And then like, he gets to Florida, his keyboard got damaged. He's like, I was unhappy with it, and it pissed me off. And that's the song and then like, he was like, I was like, You know what, like, this is like, a slice of his actual life because he had gotten famous towards the end. And so people were flying him around. And stuff like that would happen to him. You know what I mean? He has stories about getting kicked off of buses getting kicked out or whatever, because, you know, he'll hear a voice and he yells at the voice it's amazing work. It's I was gonna say like anyone who thinks that the only way to listen to Wesley Willis is like, you know, as ironically is is a dummy. They're dummies, anyway. Nico writes. Virgil, what is your favorite box wine? Asking? Oh, friend,

box very interesting. So first of all, Black Swan boxes is a container of wine. So don't people will be like so snob like I don't drink box wine. But it's it's it's a vessel to to put your wine so it and the fact that we consume wine 90% of the wine that we get from the markets that should be drink anyway, we didn't a year two years. So storing wine bottles somehow just became like a senator vessel and you have a box wine you have kind of wine? was my favorite box wine? Probably the there's one called lab Leb from Portugal and also there's another one the house wine. Yeah, so those are really, really decent bucks. Why you like

from the tank? That's pretty cheap. You know, those guys from the tank there? Those French folks know. So here's what I think. See what you think Virgil? I think, right. So like most of the most of the box wines, they're either like really cheap, right? Like $18 For three liters. Or, like maybe like a little maybe like a little more like maybe like 2530 Like I would love like a $50 box one. A $50 box, right? Because a $50 box wine, you're looking at buying a $30 bottle of wine. Right? But getting it in a box, you're getting four bottles, right? Because if you figure that like an $18 box wine is four bottles for $18. Someone do that math for me, right? It's it's like $5 A bottle. But really, you're paying you pay for that bottle probably like 859 bucks. Right? Right. So, so if that's the multiplier, right? If I'm paying, I could be paying 13 or $14, the equivalent bottle in a box wine. But I could be drinking like 25 $30 bottle wine. You know what I mean? quality wise? Well, the cost to the producer, right? So let's assume that unlike liquor, where the actual cost of production is not related to the price, right? In liquor, they make a liquor not all liquors, but some liquors they make the liquor and then they decide what the price is going to be. How, you know, I was in the room once when that was happening. Oh, really? Oh my god, it blew my mind. I was they were like, they were like, Yeah, we haven't figured out how much it's going to cost yet. I was like, well, don't you know how much it's going to cost you to make? And they're like, Yeah. And I was like, Well, do you know how much it's gonna cost you to make? What do you mean, you don't know how much it's gonna cost to sell it? And they're like, oh, no, it's not about that. They're like, we're going to set the market based on what we think the product is. And that's what the cost is going to be. Has nothing to do with how much it costs us to make. And I was like, wow, what I was like, what? You know what I mean? Like I just didn't, I was like,

and now you get a glimpse into how we run our company. Yeah. Zane

is always good for Zinger. She's the queen of the zing. I think Anastasia might be the queen of the zing. I don't know. I am sure. So we cleared our palate by the way, Quinn with a Macintosh is original and because it's in Canada, they have to have it in French legionnaires, creamy toffee toffee accent to the correct So anyway, but this tastes like legit British stuff. It's softer than the ones I'm used to which I kind of like because although I do like the going from breaking my face off to soft while I'm chewing on it on like some of the old school, remember the toffees with a hammer, you guys ever had the toffees with a hammer, you get the toffee, and it comes with a hammer. And then you use the hammer, and you shatter the toffee into pieces, because it comes as a single block. And you're like, boom, and you hit the toffee and it breaks apart and then you put it in your mouth and then finally turns into tuck in your mouth. So there's something amazing about that. But I think this is a good middle ground. What do you think when

should you ever go over one that my dad selected? Hey,

hey, buddy. Talk to John Johnson. One picking what we're eatin I brought every single thing with exception of Smarties because we know it's Marty's taste like Yeah, yeah. All right. All right. All right. Well, you know, tell your dad, your dad, I enjoy toffee a lot. I have ever told the story on her real, real quick. When I was a child, I went to Madame Tussauds to ever tell the story. In London. I was about to turn seven. I was six in like six and a couple of days from seven years old. We were going to Europe because my mom got invited to give a talk. In France we did we went to England, we went to France and we went to Holland. So we go to Madame Tussauds and we go downstairs to the Hall of horrors you guys ever been to like the original London, the Hall of horrors. Now, it's probably like really cheesy for an adult. But for a sixth and change person. It was super creepy and the one in London back then in the 70s it was like 1977 They had the actual clothes of the murderers. So basically, it was just wax figures of murderers with with the clothes of the murderers that they had when they were executed put onto the wax with a story of their murders. That's that's what the Hall of horrors used to be. Is it still like that John?