Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 97: “Heir Apparent”

today's program has been brought to by Fairway Market like no other Market in New York City institution that sells the best local National and international Artisan foods for prices that can't be beat for more information visit you were listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn do you like this program visit Heritage Radio Network. Org but thousands more

let us now.

but you know Leah at Heritage Radio here we're going all original all lights music show the cooking issues Liam is no longer as of now so basically this works right as with all the things in life theoretically if you choose on the air in some sort of program a song you were supposed to pay for it supposed to pay what is a BMI or ASCAP whatever it is right by Jack and we decided we want to do that because we're non-profit we got we got no cash yeah so now that I know they're on the air

Lil bit late today for the back in a little bit and Jack and z are Intrepid engineer and the radio grand vizier mustaches title is with the organization and by the way we don't even know what the organization means I don't knows what company were talking about what the hell were talking about to have a title there but you have won the same title across anything she works for basically you can treat her however you want so long as her title is Heir Apparent

can I find me to reply yeah but I don't really know what it's like I said when she said this is what you wanted her title to be in that was her only condition for working really strangely enough as I can repair it doesn't matter that matter anyway just got back from London Merry Old Merry Old England action right where I was with Harold McGee we were at we were at the end of the bar this year's you know last year the Year 2 years ago whatever it was the bar wedding of the century was was Audrey Saunders of effective and Robert has so few know he writes about Destiny oat bars near bar kind of Master writer thinker

cocktail boy I think it's his real family of Pernod Ricard and good friend and Tony Conigliaro of 69 Cobra Pro instead of Townhouse Inn in the London there some of my favorite bars in the in the world we went over I should say we I went over and he also went over to start with enough crap in it and that okay I don't know anyway I went over to London for the wedding in order to write off the entire trip Harold Harold Harold McGee and I went to the brogdale collection again and can't Fabish and which is for those of you that don't know where the United Kingdom stores all of its fruit

Danish national Astros going to go there that talk about it in general why does QuickPic refresher refresher so when you're storing fruit you store in the form of a tree right and so you go there and they actually have all the trees now if you go to the United States is fruit repository switch run by the good old I took kind of a governmental + University effort right so are apples are run in connection between Cornell University and United States government and pears and small fruits are in Corvallis where we're going to go to Portland cocktail week I hope to go to Corvallis which is where the other ones are stored so here's what I have learned about American fruit collection stay really don't care I don't care what no one goes there to visit it right and you can go in there and go absolutely nutty ape crap on the trees and eat as much fruit as you want with almost no supervision this is what I found

where at in the brogdale with it which is in Kent this is not the case they they they don't let you just go go crazy on us Tasha and I was at two years ago we went and we went we went naughty box in the in the orchard we were able to eat whatever we want no one gave us any sort of God because there is literally nobody there this year it was pretty hard core and we had to sneak around and we got kicked out of the Orchards like three times yes here's another thing sad to say for all the English folk out there this is like I asked him Fruit Growers there this is the worst season 4 taste for British apples and and when I in in many many many years because they had not enough sunlight and more than usual a less-than-average son more than more than usual rain and the apples guest stars were not this weren't Bueno I tasted a bunch of style of the bride veils no offense to the browgal but the apples just wouldn't know love right and I had apples apples that I knew exactly what it tasted like a mare

English apples that I knew what they tasted like to Cox's and tasted Cox Empires always anything to none of them something else prefer their fruit a little more sour than we do it was speaking of sour there was like I think so she's not listening but there's this woman on the tour with us right cuz I had to take the store to get out there so we had to sit around all these people they care about stuff that Harold and I really just don't care about like the value of the trees as trees here and I'll look this is an apple tree this is a pear tree its value lies in the fruit in the fruit the fruit and then don't like the whole to control a fruit look like a cup of water and you made a delicious apples when you be like apples

know the value of the tree that produces the fruit that's so delicious right now shouldn't care about the Apple off of a tree that was so horribly under ripe it tasted like you were sucking on Raw starch and because Apple's before they're ripe they taste very starchy and they're usually very acidic and I have very little round this to this was just tasted of starch and malic acid and nothing else and it was overly hard and you know that kind of teeth breaking as you too into it she loved it so just be fantastic with the fun cheese and I was like that's like this lady has to be an anomaly and I asked him around there like no man no man crazy depressing

hey Davis Johnny from Memphis can how you doing how you doing thanks for the turned out good I'm happy all right

salt like a pork butt or buying a pork butt before you sous-vide it right and if I was going to open it up like a book and put arms like 4-channel style then roll it up and sous-vide it

I wouldn't need to brine a fried okay so there's there's two ways to think about you don't need to sew brining those two things three things really it it it Alters the protein so that they're less apt to get overcooked right and that's the reason why a lot of people do it when they're doing traditional cooking it also and that you don't need to do for sous vide it's not necessary to they do it to flavor the meat right and so for the flavor you know that's still necessary if that's the flavor you want but three it also tends to firm up the meat a little bit and make it taste less like fresh meat and that's okay in like a chicken not okay in a piece of steak and then it's up to you in a piece of pork with it that's okay or not you know what I mean

what called airport if I have been trouble making like a roulade style but sometimes put a timer on it yep. No it likes gelatin and eat it and then want to trust the outside maybe I should use water and like a pesto spread set of oil

is that my can you come apart the only thing okay so me anytime if there is oil in between oil I wouldn't go water base just going to leak everywhere I think the oils not going to be too much of a problem as long as there is some meat to meat contact it's not going to be a problem which transmit terminates are you using

one I'm having gelatin if I'm using the RM couple sheet

you can I use a GF whichever you shouldn't need that mean the RM has a casing is a binder you shouldn't need it to to add it in if you were if it wasn't sticking I guess you could add some more that you know I mean I would I would keep it if you want to Brian it beforehand I would say you could just let it Brian self buy salt it you know what I mean then add the transportation Ace of the powder I wouldn't wouldn't go crazy on it and then a question what is it going to is it going to what's going to happen if you put pasta on it you need me to meet contact you know what I mean you need to meet me contact you could make a you could make a gelatin you could make a gelatin water slurry in that sucker wood glue up you know what I'm saying I would make this lower

with the gelatin let it you know cool down till it's not set but you know like maybe starting to get fake whisk the transport a minase into it and then spread it on the thing and roll quick

okay that's what I would do appreciate you all right let us know why I let you know how it goes

besides I didn't come across too harsh on there on the on the Brits which it's a bad year for them right

anyway so I get off her back you are wonderful

got a question in from Philip Lamont hello Anastasia and Dave I just saw your lecture at Harvard and loved it nice thank you but they only publish the one that we did together right I think the one I did for the student is actually stronger because it was just about let's focus more on the students so it's about the science and and what was going on you know I've been making an herb mayonnaise lately and I can't get it to stay green longer than one night I'm making her. By blanching Arabs and salted water and icing to keep them cold I blend those orbs in an ice blender with just enough cold oil after blending I had lemon juice or ascorbic acid then I add this to Mayo via Roble Coop which the subsequent Mayo is made in it is nice green but not for long am I just screwed I've never

I've never I haven't done enough test with it to know 100% but just kind of off the top my head and I went back and looked at some of the books that I that I know that I love to see what their recommendation for now you specifically want an herb mayonnaise IE want the flavor of the urban it and not just an egg green mayonnaise right so what's most likely happening is no there is a there are Disneyland's nighttime in herbs in many plants called fair-weather call the polyphenol oxidase is I think it's what they're called when you break herbs or leaves or anything like that Apple's you release those enzymes or otherwise locked up such they can interact with the rest of the the juices from the cell right some of those things are are phenols that get altered by the enzyme and then kind of stick together and form colored particles

answer that that's what's happening now there's a couple of things that inhibit those enzymes one or antioxidants ascorbic acid so that's that's good and to do is heat so if you heat an herb Blanchett as you're doing and salted blanch in salted water by the way it's a good idea because it means going to leak less of the color and stuff out of the earth so blanching in salted water very good putting it into cold water to stop a heating which was actually break down the chlorophyll to the separate problem with Browning as it happens when you overcook the vegetables having ascorbic acid these are all the things that I would do so but let's take a look at specifically what you say here you blanch stuff in salt water and then I said and then blend those in a nice blender with Coldwell I don't think you really need to worry about the coldness of the oil and you don't need to worry about icing the blender okay

at your blending it with the oil there I guess to get the water oil stuff right so that when you add it to the mayonnaise if not going to break the emotion and I seems fine I guess lemon juice or ascorbic acid that you that you add afterwards also fine then add to the mail by aerobic Ew with a cold in the blender make sure you squeeze out the herbs after you blanch them to get rid of in any of the stuff that's in them I would take out stems I'll take out the stems when I'd also maybe use a different a different method took so you should go read you should find by go to book and get the out-of-print book from Harold McGee the Curious cook which I keep telling has to bring back into circulation and he goes through an entire section in that book about keeping things green and all the various different interesting ways he's trying to keep pesto and things which is similar problem green

definitely recommend but here's how I would probably do it if I was going to use your Technique blanch in water then I were in this cold here in the in the in the salted water very salted water pull it out shake shock it squeeze it to get all of the stuff out then directly blend that without added oil with ascorbic acid right away bump then after you do that I would add if you wanted to I would just start beating that into mayonnaise and then adding more oil is necessary to get the consistency back we not that's that's what I would do but I also I think one of your problems is is that you are adding the solids and it might be a solid in there that are causing the problem because when I looked at one of my favorite all-time cookbooks which is James Peterson's sauces which is a very early 90s classic hits 1990

only came out and it's one of my treasure books can you get one of the sad things about cookbooks and cooking you no good cookbook ends and thinking about books if there's lots of books especially from that era before cooking was wildly popular among a bunch of people that have just Fallen by the Wayside Inn aren't read enough so you know some of the old meals old southern cookbooks are some of those books that aren't read enough these days and James Peterson obviously still famous but I don't hear as many people talking about his sauces book which I think it is a classic as you know as much as I used to know when you do read the book by Raina recommend to go get in the book you do see some of the some of the that time in it so at that time reduce cream sauces were extremely popular and so there's a lot of reduce cream sauce is in that book that you wouldn't necessarily see on a menu these days but he's got a really good book like that you have to filter it through the lens of the time in which in which

anyway so I looked at what he had to say about it and you know he calls it by its French name Sasha fared with green mayonnaise and the way he makes it is to actually make a chlorophyll juice out of tree do what he says sauce fat-free mayonnaise Master one half of a teaspoon 3 grams of chlorophyll into one cup of mayonnaise and to extract the chlorophyll from spinach leaves C chapter 15 butter sauces and chlorophyll better when I don't worry I have that for you so I can read it as well if I can get my iPad to stop rotating on me to test a test that tests it's why won't stay where I want it okay

okay so that's what that's he says you add the chlorophyll and I'll talk about that this man is can also be colored directly with the Jews from spinach Watercress or partially not here's the technique is going to be important to you because I think this is how you should do it in a large pot of salted water quickly rinse the greens and cold water not dry and finely grind in a blender or food processor place of pureed Greens in the middle of the kitchen Town here's where he's doing something different from you and tightly ring the juice out into a bowl this juice can then be used for coloring the mayonnaise the puree can be combined directly with the mayonnaise and the sauce strain so and this think about this this is the way that we make parsley oil right even if you weren't to follow his directions and blanching you can you can Blanche and quotes you can plant herbs directly in oil so you can take your oil you can heat the oil with herbs in it enough to kill the enzymes that are in the oil without ever putting it in the water

then Blended and then strain out the particles and that's how we make things like parsley oil and Herb oil so I would do that instead I think it's the solids that you're dealing with and you could also get rid of the water Blanche the only issue here is going to have to sprinkle a little extra ascorbic acid into that man is as it's being made with sugar dissolve into the water face and have it be fine but I think that is the key there is that you're getting rid of the solid and using the juice from a right and a thing she's not saying is that you can Blanche that the herbs directly in oil so long as you're careful you don't want them to the brown you want the temperature to stay below right around or below the boiling point of water you can see the bubbles coming up from the kind of like Melo it out to stop it from getting too Brown so for completing his recipe for Coral FL butter is good to have on hand for coloring a hot sausage green plain chlorophyll can be used for cold sauces prepare one ounce of chlorophyll to do

is grind 1 lb or 500 grams of raw spinach leaves with 1/2 to 1 cup of water in a blender food processor for the green paste in the center of a clean kitchen towel and twist it to extract a green liquid jelly heat the green liquid in a saucepan until it coagulates strain liquid through a strainer line with a wet towel so you got to do it quickly before it turns brown and then gently scrape the chlorophyll away from the inside of the towel with a spoon or a metal spatula chlorophyll can be stored in the refrigerator covered with a thin coating of oil right there you go and Vera chlorophyll Butterworth chlorophyll with four times its volume of butter so I don't know whether any of this is helpful but hopefully some of it as hell and let us go to our first commercial break

Heritage Radio Network. Org

today's program has been brought to you by Fairway Market like no other Market in New York City institution that sells the best local National and international Artisan foods for prices that can't be beat could more information visit

hi I'm Steve Jenkins from Fairway markets I'm devoted my career to the old ways the old recipes the old tools the old geography of where serious Foods come from for centuries and I strive to make these wonderful things available to New Yorkers for 37 years so it's a Fete accompli for us to support Heritage Radio Network and I hope you will too and I hope you'll keep tuning in for more information please visit Fairway Market. Com

like what you hear so far support the network and become a member membership helps us bring you the best food radio in the world and gives you access to thousands of dollars and discounts at the sustainably minded businesses that support us to become a member visit Heritage Radio Network. Org today

the Jack what did he say he say my idiot career my whole idiot career

Michelle yelled at me once from Above The Young and the Fairway they have like a brick by the cheese thing there's like an upper counter where like they can look down and see what's happening in the cheese land and yelled at me from that once I remember I remember being yelled at CCBC Pleasant to deal with here at the radio show me I love it I love what he's done for the cheese world where he was one of those people who don't know Steve Jenkins or for those who think there's somehow everyone in America is always cared about cheese while you're wrong a long time ago there were a couple of shops in New York where you could get you know Cheese's so you think they're you know what to say bars for a long time but Fairway I think really was one of the leaders in in the in the 90s and early early 90s at least maybe really kind of raising

is consciousness among a large group of people when you say so Jack I mean yes so I feel that we we owe Steve Jenkins as a cheese eating culture a lot you know obviously we have a lot of cheese gurus now you know what I mean but I think I think we owe him

yeah I got to love them thank God for a d it's okay we have a follow-up from Rob gray paws by the way I can just pronounce his name because he's had in a written in I don't need your help anymore. We we had a discussion on the radio program about remodeling for moving here just follow up Dave at all thanks for your help and inside on my quest of rebar fabrication vermouth she was having a problem with them oxidizing Fever Tree Tonic and ginger ale or bottled in 200 mL glass bottles that accept a regular cash I eat Crown cork apps that you can get any home brew shop you can buy the butler for very little I mean d at the capitol for very little

no it's not an actual champagne slip if it does a bottle if it doesn't take the cap so I don't know what you're in any non screw-top thing should accept it. The reason why is good that's how they store it normally before they cork it when they doing the rack and stuff anyways okay okay

till after it's convenient that you can pack a v into for small bottles shut up a few gin and tonics horses necks and French 75 you know that's what we used to call with some of the people in my stepfather's family they all had dumb names for people like me and wants me nicknames use behind their back and horses neck with one for Girard say great-grandma I keep some of them are unrepeatable on the are some of the some of that the vast majority of The Addams Family nicknames for unrepeatable on the on the air although they are hilarious okay I collected enough bottle so we bought on my collection a local wine shop and canned wine preserver gas argon with members a good one to use that I used a purse to headspace experiments are different suspension techniques to get an effective blanket using a bottle filled with water and a match the re-cy one drawback to can gas if the pressure is high at first and then dissipates as you use it I found at 7 quick sprayer

what is the south side of the bottle did the trick and I checked my blanket by putting a lit match in the opening just below the crown the match went out immediately a reason there was no oxygen and then use the same technique on the 45 of fortified wines but I know it's a different pressure flow out of the can I check the water blank the attached or call his cell phone shows results happily I cannot keep six small fresh bottle of my refrigerator along with my cigarettes and Asuna gesture with I also attached a PDF which is from a wine saying you guys can look it up with some more information on inert gas

yep meaning he also remember I recommended to pick up a copy at 6 to pump by Darcy O'Neal let me that he did that and he likes it so they have it at a really quick question chat with you this is from me I don't refrigerate vermouth how long how long does it take before it's not the refrigeration that's the problem Refrigeration slows the changes that are due to oxidation right so if you if you were to actually effectively remove all of the oxygen from where the stuff is then it shelf life shouldn't be compromised over regular vermouth but storing regular vermouth in the fridge is going to prolong its life after it's been open if you don't remove the oxygen

but I definitely recommend doing it and or buying most people if they're not like at the very minimum just buy small bottles of vermouth me the real problem is is that each usually only the brands that aren't my favorite Brands they come in the small bottle so no one makes small bottles of carpano they only come in and you know larger things no one makes small bottles of Dolan and make small bottles of Coke here all these are the things that you know we like to use and so it's a problem if you're a fan of something like Martini & Rossi then those do come in smaller bottles and the cost isn't so high so you can use it and relatively short order mean

bombing in fortify with herbs and extra liquor to get the proof up but it's not going to look up the first time ever decide she's going to look up what

well that's true me and you probably ain't hear what you said because she wasn't that her face was in the microphone that she was we have it now these questions I'm just misreading so I haven't I haven't had time to look at it beforehand if they're coming off of off of General Jack Sprinter somehow made them this is from Mike I have a practical question concerning Chili Peppers I frequently handle them when cooking and by the time I am finished with prep work my hands often feel like they're burning presumably it has something to do with the station that was just the is near the heating part that the hot principal in hot peppers sometimes I'm smart enough to wear latex gloves but this is not always possible put your home you don't like to wear latex gloves anyway do you want to get into making it up do you know of any treatment which neutralizes is burning sensation sorry for such a housewife. Hate don't be insulting the housewives by the way but my hands really really hurt right now

how much appreciated and please keep up the great work bike I don't know do you know of any Zumba you have some small Nicks and cuts somewhere in your hand right so I don't think rubbing it with oil would help because capitations oil-soluble so it will go into Ingo it you go into that if you could try it it's kind of a a primary thing between your hands can be slippery going to slice the heck out of your hands I would just die if you only handle as you're cutting if you're careful to only handle the waxy outer cuticle section of the of the pepper and you're not going to be come in contact with the with the with the seeds too much and probably if after you slice it you give it a real quick quick rinse and in water to get the stuff off it might help a little bit but I don't really know I've never been asked to have this problem fixed listen anyone out there please give us your thoughts on if you have problems cutting cutting red hot pepper Hot Chili Peppers

and you know of a solution other than latex gloves Collison right or right and we'll do it next week next one which also has something to do with septation is from and Rory Rice High Day from the land down under love the show I listen to podcast on my walk home from work it's a long walk

so I don't know what I'm saying it's a long walk if you listen to the podcast on the long long walk I have a question regarding the coloring of a capsicum base sauce I'm working on it contain so I kept kept secret Peppers red peppers only red vinegar sugar salt and a little ginger and garlic no other additives the sauces bottle and cap while hot and it's a stunning red color it would change color well overall but after a while there's some darkening seeing it at tops the bottles what is causing this I assume it is some sort of oxidation the more importantly what options do I have to prevent it from happening should know what I was talking about the Earth's here's what I forgot to mention McGee and is curious cookbook on that thing says that even if you even if you destroy the enzymes to polyphenol oxidase is in the in the Earth by blanching after you make pesto with them they will still eventually go Brown and the reason is is that the oxidation

those are phenols and then they eventually will happen even if the enzyme is destroyed nearly as much but will happen to them at a much reduced rate and all depends on the actual reactivity of those phenolic compounds because it's not if you add fresh enzyme like any fresh herb at all to the stuff that you've blanched the enzymes are there and they'll go in their work and their do their dirty Brown work so that might be another thing to look at on the earth saying is the fact that you know maybe there's some fresh air getting into it afterwards or maybe just get some brownie anyway maybe need to blanch a little bit longer to really make sure you kill all the an enzyme because enzymes are deactivated right away anyway so back to the question I should have some sort of oxidation but more importantly what options do I have to prevent it from happening okay looking at your at your

list you have a capsicum Peppers vinegar which is an acid acid should present A prevent somewhat Browning because if there are any enzymes in it that are if it's an enzymatic reaction to vinegar the acidity to Hibbett at sugar salt and a little ginger or garlic okay but here's the issue you don't have in there as oxidation is going to take place over a long. Of time regardless of whether or not their enzymes present as I just said you might want to do is add a little bit of an antioxidant vitamin C ascorbic acid is one that you might try sodium metabisulfite

another one you might try although I don't recommend I don't like it because the metabisulfite to me they have like kind of a hassle free note like an aroma that I think is unpleasant I mean clearly it's your your bottling it hot so it's not not a probably not an enzyme saying and it's interesting that the discoloration to see near the top so it's either a drying effects which it can't be because it's healed or its oxidation which is happening at the place where the oxygen is present aka the top so I would say if you adding an antioxidant is it is a way to go or if you can going back to the last question about vamoose put a an inert gas blanket on the top of it that might also help you so inert gas blanket on the top and or an antioxidant I would know if it was me I would do both I don't know what kind of time length to talk about to Browning so I don't know a kind of how much you can get rid of butt

those are those are my suggestions if you have time for a quick question what would your three must-try food joints be in New York while on a budget can be street food vendor take away joint reasonably priced restaurant excetera excetera thanks for keeping up the good work so what do you think how much does a how much does pot cost

I don't know no idea

Jack you got me good burger joints

I don't know Vivian like pox a great restaurant that's a Andy Ricker's restaurant and I don't think the prices were that high right

closest Budget

Natasha's Natasha's thinking Jack are we are we are we about to get the plug pulled or should we we don't have time for ourselves so we can just glitter glitter for 5 minutes

did you want to talk about the music I kind of deal so we're not allowed to use vicious vicious vodka by Amos Milburn anymore wish I enjoy we can make our own song called fishes fishes vodka and then you know bmu no be all set but that definitely not going to happen so what Jack wants to do is have some sort of contest for kind of a user user a listener to say that they no have a song they think should be the the what's it called theme song for The Cooking issue show and then I see why don't I just bought a base a new base I haven't played bass in many many years by just bought an acoustic electric bass and I thought you know Jack and I can come up with some sort of crazy theme song and he says maybe we should have the listener theme song verses are theme song

make a note specially specially if they choose our theme song we give them some free heritage heritage me entering the same requirements yet doesn't need to be longer than the radio what will you know what not necessarily does not have to be like for instance like I would be proud to have the Hearst Ranch grass-fed beef

you know right

yeah yeah like I'm just a fan of that particular that particular song so you know her send it to music info at Heritage Radio Network. Org come up with a theme song

alrighty then so I guess you know you're going to give you 10 more seconds to call in if not have a good week and we back next week

thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network. Org you can find all of our archive programs on our website or as podcast in the iTunes Store by searching Heritage Radio Network you can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio you can email us questions at any time at info at Heritage Radio Network. Org Heritage Radio network is a nonprofit organization to donate and become a member visit our website today thanks for listening