Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 94: Curing Meat and Making Sausage

today's program has been brought to you by the international culinary Center offering courses that range from classic French techniques and culinary pastry and bread baking to Italian Studies to management and culinary technology to food writing from Cake Making to wine tasting for more information visit International culinary Center. Com broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn you listening to Heritage Radio Network. Org

Heritage Radio Network in the back of my brother's Pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn

join with Joan Jacqueline Giroux nastasha the hammer Lopez always sit next to me how you doing guys good I'm glad I got the right after we have our weekly Roberta's lunch with which the stash and I always enjoy thanks to the radio station that give us the free lunch that's what we work for your people by the way kids were wondering what the reward for the show is left after that and go to the airport and going to Columbia my favorite South American country course is the only South American country has gone too but it is well we had a Panamanian slang Panama is is South America where is because it's part of the skinny skinny skinny part which I consider to be Central America call center American but that kind of pisses them off because they consider themselves South American Central America that why do we need a what why is the can out of there cuz it's the skinny part of the skinniest part the skinniest part

Red Robin Panama being my favorite Central and be quite a bit in the great news is I'm going to look up your stuff by the way even though they don't have it there they have a close relatives I can play with I get to visit a coffee plantation in Armenia which is any of the heart of Colombian coffee growing things are going to hopefully if they're if it's there right now pick some coffee do some fun stuff and report back next week with the news of that coffee call 718-497-2128. 718-497-2128 got some questions from last week that I didn't do this one in from senior trip pause I answer this question last week about the carpano vermouth but don't believe I answered his question about cherries in making shelf-stable Maraschino or bourbon style American ale or bourbon style cherries

I found call refrigerated storage for. Of weeks I want to keep the match seller temperatures for up to a year okay well look so the actual the things that you buy in the store as a maraschino cherries what they do with those things as they are they bleach the color and flavor out of them and make them stable in a solution of a kind of like sulfur dioxide which of the bleacher and a preservative and I and anti-fungal I think and calcium chloride calcium chloride is what gives maraschino cherries that hardness right because what would the calcium is doing because of cards actually hard books at 8 about the calcium chloride calcium helps to cross-link the pectin inside of the cherry and caused that the Flesh of the cherries and not break down over time right that's why the calcium is there then they put it in a food coloring and syrup over length of time to refuse it with sugar cuz doesn't really have any much sugar feel after flavor or anything like that

and that's not that that's not the way to do it that that's horse that's horse hockey Toby cecchini the bartender famous for the cosmo think I did mention him last week in regard to cherries but I give a very abbreviated sure if I talked about all the super be dated Night by apologizing so he makes his own but I don't have his rest of that would never get in touch with him and get his recipe but you want to look up the person to look up on this on the Internet is Darcy O'Neil from the art of the drink who also did fix the pump so you can credibly influential book on bringing back stuff in the soda Foundation the soda jerk days and compile all of all of these things first of all the patents online and Maris maraschino cherries in the store are made with sweet cherries old style real Cherry cocktail cherries are brandy sour cherries and least that's what I'm told and Toby tells me that he's tested sweet cherries and sour cherries I eat sour and bitter cherries like you know in Amarillo and all those things

horrible insipid and sour ones the ones you want and that she actually born on if you get the Italian preserve cherries are the smaller kind like you know they're the ones that we get in the blue ceramic jars Name Escapes me but there is smaller and they are not that not too sweet style now if you want a good free guide to Old Cherry varieties a cherry varieties prior to about 1920 look up cherries of New York are you can get a pdf version online for free it's like from the teams or twice and Scott full color pictures of all the Cherry varieties of a grown in New York at that time which is also a wide range of all the charity ride along shop at once interval here in New York from the Geneva quartz experiment station and I have actually had the whole collection hard hard copy now listen to say I'm violently allergic to cherries I can't eat them haven't been able to eat them since I was 30 or 31 so so bear that in mind don't like you know like anything here I can't actually test it for you because it would kill me okay

now the trick with there's the two traits one you want to keep the cherries firm into you want to go gradually preserve the Cherry so that they don't rot so typically there's two things we had two cherries to preserve them sugar to increase of sugar content with restoring them high sugar so that they don't go bad and two we're adding an acid which is an antifungal in the thing at 80 effaced Game Preserve antibacterial antifungal thing in this year and 3 you're going to add sugar alcohol laugh at whatever I forget one two three four five whatever make sugar alcohol sugar alcohol

acid and calcium you're going to add to this but you have to do it carefully cuz you have to preserve the osmotic balance of the Cherry so they don't shrivel and or rupture and I come back and give you what the answer to that is but I have a call around here call her you're on the air big fat fish taste like eggs and Curry Fried delicious Thai street food with shrimp paste and call me when you grind up shrimp shrimp paste off a little leg falls apart when they came out and was curious to know I realized I was hoping you can shed a little light of what's going on and if there's a relatively simple fix I wouldn't have expected that but I mean obviously

fix me aside from actually figuring out what's going on with the recipe formulation is just add a little bit of transmute aminase to it like Activa RM and it would find it you know lickety split enough salt in there for the proteins that bind together and you process it long enough for it to get a good what looks like a good bind in the mix before you fry it

Teriyaki. But I know for a fact that shrimp with a little bit of Transport aminase added to it if you know if you got to poach it probably first in a little in a little water stock to set the outside but they won't break ever never it will not break you know does to to make his a shrimp noodles and those things I fry them and they fry fine so I'm assuming that they also containing protein wouldn't interfere with the bind with the with the I'm so surprised when you think about it like I always when I'm doing things I never do Straight shrimp like in my sausages and poaching mixers for like fish quenelles it's always fish scallops and shrimp someone so maybe there is something strange about about shrimp but I mean do you have access to me and you can't for minors pantry you can buy a fairly small amount of fans boo Taman Ace and it's fairly easy to use to sprinkle a little bit in don't go I wouldn't the maximum you can add is 1% by weight

you don't need nearly 1% by weight just say it just to keep it together in fact that might make it to farm fall apart more easily than the burgers on like that what is there something out Seafood proteins that make them buying less than than than being formed from meat please when I make them that's already been cooked once so there's not like a lot of the proteins already coagulated in it and so the and especially kind of the lump style crab meat that you're using the bigger they aren't going to want to bind together so you know in an in a native in a native on uncooked protein is it hasn't been quite elated yet you know there's a lot of soluble in a liquid down proteins you had sought more of those things come out and it's kind of form of gluey sticky Matrix and then when the heat set to say you know sets them it sets into kind of a solid Matrix of a sausage that's how it works but where is exit

crabmeat you know it's already been set so you can't you can't do it I don't mean again you can take crab meat and bind it with transport ammunition get it to stick together or you could add some uncooked protein like fish protein to add to help find you if you don't want to add other extenders but the crab meat itself is never going to bind together as well just go to cook thanks so back to the church for second so here's what you want to do if you go to darcio News website they are the drink which I first was highly recommend that you do you should go to his website I don't know by his no acid phosphate soda support semantics that you know he's doing very good work for all of us in the in the world of cocktail Technologies and he's an actual scientist I don't know if he still does science for a living or where they just as cocktail stuff for living anyways what you want to do is figure out about how much sugar in is in your cherry and I don't really I don't know that I trust his numbers 100% said read other numbers but he's basically saying that the bricks

Philly bricks which is weight of sugar in in water for a cherry is somewhere on the on the order of five or six to sixteen bricks I've heard as much up to like up to 20 22 22 brakes percent sugar on a on one of the sweeter cherries so you going to want to start with a sugar syrup only slightly more sugar than that so one to one simple syrup is going to be too much to start with start lower and work your way up add acid and Darcy says that Malik and citric are the two components that are mainly the acids in there so you going to want to add probably more Malik and citric all that's also what kind of lime taste like she's going to want to add Malik and citric acid you going to want to add sugar right and then you gradually increase the sugar content of the syrup now he says to make sure there's enough syrup in there at the sugar content doesn't decrease too much because of the water that goes in but I would say

A Little Bit Stronger at a little bit as you go get a strong sear and then after it's been preserved in syrup start doping in alcohol like super high proof ethanol until it gets to where you wanted and then you should be good for a year but please go read Darcy O'Neill's post on preserve cherries also you're on the air

hey Dave I just made it about twenty pounds of homemade sausage and I usually cook sausage and they don't reach back like four different ones and they all turned out really melee and I did a little research and it says it's just from the the fat breaking and I'm wondering why why I can do it next time I'm wondering why normal sausages don't break like that

the way I normally cook brown it on one side and a pan and end in flip it's a little water in the pan and cover it and then after about 10 minutes I take it off and left it send it cook it until it's the brown little more know what they're talking about with high temperature is it on the cook side they're talking about high temperature on the make side

from a chicken with them should I ground up chicken thighs in a little fat back in there and then put Thai chilies and Thai Basil I did a turkey with dried cherries have a lot of stuff all out of the charcuterie book so but so not emulsified the regular like regular sausage mixers not not like made into a batter emulsified right are you par for using the the the meat in the fat before you grind it

I tried to my don't have a great grinder though and so it was kind of just making more of a pace than actual size of a half of a half of the sausages I made I just bought from our local butcher shop they had they make their own sausages and they told me a pre-ground blend of you know pork belly are pork shoulder and pork fat do you know like 35% fat may just sold it to me pre-ground I wouldn't think that that would break as well and that that one's when it went really the one that they did pre-ground for you the ones I ground myself in the ones that they had pre-ground I mean that cooking technique that you talk about the is he know the old school one pre pre poach and then and then Brown off right that's what you said you do that that's what I typically do when I if I don't have a circulator mean that's good technique so that's not that's not doing it so it's got to be I mean typically when you're looking at sausage manufacturer there's the name of the main things are.

have I not fat content which you do you ask you got it right do you have a hind of salt content to get a good Vines going cuz that'll also mean it won't bind together well if you don't have a hind of salt content because of salt is what's allowing the proteins to a kind of come out in form that that bind and in the sausage mix right so it wasn't bound right it's not bound right it's going to be more like peanut compressed hamburger meat sweats 3 was the temperature of the of the fat and and what not cold enough when it was ground so you're not getting weird smearing effects and then you'll get a lot of you know that fat tissue is disrupted and and melt it instead of ground cleanly then you'll bleed the fat out you'll be left with dry and and millionaire so they did to temperature of the of the meat is important and that you know proper trim is important when you grind it and thirdly the temperature is vitally important emulsified sausage is because you're making an emotional emotional break if it gets too hot and really those

those are the main factors that I always mean not that huge expert in it but those are the main factors that I always look for in troubleshooting a sausage problem to see what's going wrong but from what you've told me I can't really figure out what you know I can't really figure out which one of those kind of like main precepts of sausage making were violated especially cuz you say you've done it before without problem right when I cook regular commercial sausage they never break the way I cook them so I was wondering if they added something to it and that you know to keep it from doing that or if it's just I messed up somehow when you can add things to sausage to keep them from breaking but you shouldn't have to do you know what I mean so you add to a commercial sausage things added to it to things to stabilize and thereto just in case somebody happens to abused them like carrageenan or things like that but then they shouldn't ever be necessary to produce a good sausage

the only things necessary or high fat content proper temperature regulation during manufacture and proper salt content and and of course proper fat type if you had a fact it's been rendered that's going to be horrible if that's already been rendered once you know it's never going to come back to its native form and then if that won't hold him properly all the fata bleed out and it's going to be a huge nightmare you know you weren't using that you were using you said fatback yeah I got that back from the local butcher shop and chop it up and put in the freezer but I do think it's actually a vintage grinder I got from my dad arrival sausage grinder but if it seemed like it was really busy grania too much where the fat wasn't coming out in almost a pace around the fat too much

yeah if the fat was like came out like a meet again like it's hard to know like if it comes out as a paste and you're breaking it up too much then perhaps you know you would need to treat it then more like an emulsified sausage if that breaks and those that weeps out right then your you know it's not going to so anytime you have fat fat isn't obviously fats not just fat fat is mixture of fat and connective tissue and Anna in it and a bunch of other things and so when it's native it'll hold it self kind of an in in place properly and when it's been mailed it out then it's never going to hold it self right which is why you want to make which is why they don't want the fat to get smeared when they're grinding when you're grinding for sausage but but maybe the blade isn't sharp on the on the on the grindery might sharpen the blade and look at just making sure you're getting good good contact it should get your grind clearly and shouldn't come out warm at all or like a paste you know what I mean

that's the problem is it's something from back in the seventies and then you know if I hasn't been sharpened for 30 years are all the same with the they look like they look like the KitchenAid Barrel it looks like it's been pulled out in Photoshop right one of those guys you know they're like like shiny shiny tin plate cast iron those guys they should work you know it's just maybe the blade wasn't sharp you should also put the grinder in the freezer as well so the Grinders call but it sounds like maybe that's what what what happened is that you maybe you know that she went wrong with the Fatback and it just didn't it didn't grind right pace it out and then and then leaked on you when you cook it

that is not salvaging it I decide to tell me about some leftover made Burger type you know it was an uncased and fry them up and listen to taste all right that or you know I mean the real problem is is that if you had super accurate temperature control you might be able to cook them at like a straight like a 1:40 and then like let's do a quick Siri off on the outside without melting it out too much but I know I don't know I have to see cuz I don't really know that those temperatures you know some of the pig fat will remain send me not super likely it'll all liquify but not like super liquid and you might get it to not going to run everywhere and go crazy but you haven't by then maybe breaking it up might be breaking it up and making patties out of it might be the way to go

Hellboy let me know next time you tried with her fixing that sold it commercial break with cooking issues

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hello it so that the band Jack tells me that is fellow radio show host Damon boelte he's band called brothers because Damon bolte has a twin brother of the family is also in the band other be funny is if you had a band called brothers and a twin brother wasn't in the band that be more funny I think I think maybe he should do that. She hasn't told his ripped but you should go definitely go check them out and see them if you're really into seeing 9 ft tall skinny bartenders play music right I told you say Damien is

I've never going to show you know why he hates me I know I know he doesn't hate me too I'm just kidding he's a good man I love that will do that and back to Dan for a second you know he makes an excellent old fashioned we were that fact there are very delicious he may. What was the old fashioned tea made for us at the museum event those damn good old-fashioned is going to be delicious crap on you guys didn't talk about like they did not like that but listen speaking of old fashioned cocktails and food you need to come to Heritage Radio Network. Timber night between 5 and 8 p.m. at Roberto's Roberta's Roberta's pizza to 61 Moore Street in Brooklyn New York there will be food from Gramercy Tavern

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oh man yeah that's going to be a good lunch if he gets a ticket now buy the tickets be a good lunch Roberta's like when people leave a slice of pizza. That's what you guys get a thing of Joe wrightson Joel Gargano rights and with a big shout-out to Joe and Big Ups effing awesome is what he said he he is actually interested in starting another band with you and doing the old Mosh Pit you'll bring him bring my pics back there still do they still have my Spitz nowadays it's been 2 days I really like what level of Mosh Pit are they now do they do the other Frat Boys still there actually trying to knock people over or is it more like it used to be

well it depends on what you know where you're at where you're performing but you know sometimes you get some people that are just now going to kick the crap out of me and I kind of scared the crap out of an Indiscreet the crap out if you know what I mean because some guy who's just like you know red in the face and steam coming out of his ears I just looked at you stares you down in these guys coming after you this week's Us listen to they still do a crowd surfing into my 50 states what's the best way to get coffee flavor to beer we want to use a local Roasters beans and not buy a pre-made extract my brother just began operations of the Brewer here in Connecticut symbol Island Brewing like to try their product maybe someone can send you something

trifling Connecticut to infuse coffee into a stout and hold off the overly bitter bitter or acidic flavors I'm thinking cold extraction is best suited your cracked I went through the infusion post on the cooking issues blog and got some good ideas yet nothing is proven to be tasty on its own here's what I did for testing before I attempt to get the coffee flavor into beer extract in room temperature water at the 101 and I can't really understand this is 50 g of coarse ground coffee medium roast and did like three minute 1 minute and fusions in the isi Whipper with the charges and then bubble by our way to not long way to not long what's the right word for that way too short short is what I'm looking for. Actually help me with that she gave me this look and I was like oh yeah short but when people doing cold brew

Amy is either doing it usually for a much much longer. Of time when I do it I do it for 2 minutes 3 minutes because I'm using alcohol and not water right so you can actually do is straight infusion into alcohol or you could take much longer and Infuse it into water and you had a special here. Should I change the liquid medium yes should we toss the whole beans in the fermenter and hope for the best know I would not do that if the guy what what I would do is look your beers I don't know what your beers are coming in at but if they do I say they're coming in at like five-five 6% alcohol someone in their 7% ate whatever I'm usually extracting in to 20% alcohol aside 40% alcohol so my infusions of coffee are very strong and they happen very quickly even at room temperature under an isi infusion Rasheen I know people that have done cold infusion of coffee into water and liquor in a huge fight and Qs by my standards 5-gallon containers like corny kegs but they're letting it sit a lot law

with your low alcohol percentage you are going to have to go a lot longer now

make it a shot the my problem with that if you mix super concentrated extracts as they tend to go at 10 to go bitter if you're allowed to use an alcohol-based extract then you could do an alcohol-based coffee extract and dope it in afterward writers use is I with with high-proof that's going to be cuz if you're actually going to do this in a commercial fashion you're going to have a difficult time you know if using the entire amount of each batch of coffee that you make now you also say I grabbed a Starbucks by a packet which is there like supposedly high grade version of freeze dried coffee I've never tried it important to a Guinness taste pretty good is that a better route I know why are you sad that stuff in sauces and whatnot I don't know whether it does not actually I'm talking about this interesting if so how can I make myself that's just freeze dried coffee then you ask Leslie what about this guy and he obviously the readers can't we have viewers can't whatever they are can't see it but it feel to have a beer through a bunch of beans before kegging or bottling and you post a link to the Randall

so what A Randall is is it is a Randall and beer in beer parlance is modified water filter that was developed by the Dogfish Head Brewery people to do Post infusion they were date of bell pepper Hops and what you're doing is running the beer out of The Keg through a container full of hops in fuses on its way out to the tap now the issue with it and people have done a lot of coffee in it to add coffee flavor to it you have to use whole beans with something like that because ground beans going to cause Wicked foaming wicked wicked foaming so you need to use whole beans in that and I don't know how much beer you can filter through it and get the same taste how long it needs to sit excetera excetera as I have running tests with it there's plenty of people doing it there's lots of links out there on how to build a Randall with parts that you know you can buy in a regular hardware store along with things you can buy at home brew shop and what they all amount to is modifying water filters so that you

can run the run the beer through the water filter on the way out to the top now the Dogfish Head guys realize it foaming is a big problem because the phone is going to be a big problem when you do that and show their new version which is on their website and you can see it and they tell you the parts you need to build up but they don't think they build it for you is has the initial and fusion chamber and then a secondary chamber with ice surrounding it to keep the temperature down that's an anti anti foam chamber so that's an interesting thing go look at Randall and it's named after Randall the enamel Randall the enamel eating whatever blah blah blah because the first thing had so much hops in it when you put it through it that they said ATM Hamill off of your teeth and those guys at Doctor should have to come with crazy names for everything they can help themselves they can't help it so go look that up and try making some Xbox with higher proof ethanol or doing it a lot longer with water or you could do that a lot longer with water in 5-gallon batch is like ours or maybe hours an hours or maybe overnight or do traditional grind and

like to Kyoto style cold cold Brewing

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South Devon Drive

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hello this is Marc leishman from Del posto on your listening to Heritage Radio.

Yeah Mark Ladner,. What do you think there's. Do you know that he he did a shout out for

hello this is Marc leishman from Del posto in your listening to Heritage Radio Network

alright so a question from before we missed from Andrew Marcus on Gummy candies hey gang I've recently been trying to make gummy candy at home but running into some issues so I thought I'd just referred you before spending more money and other ingredients that might just lead to more dead end ideal I'd rather not use gelatin for my veggie friends and potentially not have to cook it so much to preserve the delicate flavors nothing specific yet another words on a delicacy the flavor is just a preference after weeding around it looks like the only way to achieve the first half I eat vegetarian dish with cornstarch or pectin with which both soon acquire tons of sugar and require lots of heat but maybe I'm way I was working with Joanne Lowe a sew-in highest hotel and previously but haven't able to get anything nearly chewy enough with good elasticity and sheer do you have any advice you should raise for those hydrocolloid would be awesome to see if I can make it even more complicated is there any way to add alcohol to the recipe over that increase the liquid portion too much and make the gel to lose thanks for any help you can give Andrew Marcus okay

you're not going to have any actual alcoholic candy that's gummy Because by the time you get their salads level high enough you're you're you're not going to have much alcohol left in it at all you can make things that are hard like rocks really jelly gel gel gel that have bless you that have a fairly high alcohol the limit with most hydrocolloids in higher concentration to get good gel strength is about 20% alcohol in the finance to finished thing I've done with some hydrocolloid higher like I've done fluid Jaguar fluid yells at like 25 28% then had got them to work I'll call Specialty I'll call later with that guy because alcohol can be boiled at agar setting temp temperatures to hydrate there we go to the alcohol boil off before those temperatures happen so most things that are severe you can do like an fluid gel that pretty high and alcohol using agar or anyone

one of those things and you can set gels with them with a high enough that if you had a high enough out not too high and I'll call my brain is so Friday crazy anyways so you're not going to get something at the gummy candy that has actual amount of alcohol in a can of the flavor of the bass flavor of an alcohol just by adding adding boiling off all the water and alcohol in it okay so that's that part of the question also saw the highest will Jo-Ann's mixes you're not going to be able to get you can get very good gelatin replacement with highest and lowest will Jalen in the ratios that are normal for gelatin but in the super high ratio that's in a gummy candy of gelatin in there it's not going to have the same texture there the gelatin will so I don't think you're going to be barking up the right tree with that I've looked into other hydrocolloid replacers I to do gelatin replacement and the one most people used seems to be agar agar also mean having done high high percentage alcohol is hot saree high-percentage agar gummies before there's not go

get the right amount there's nothing to get the right texture with that you might be able to I haven't looked it up I wasn't able to check it out but there are Kappa carrageenan locust bean gum mixes and you can actually use agar and locust bean gum it's not quite the same but go to CP Kelco and look up there gelatin replacers or call them CP Kelco and they might have a Kappa carrageenan / locust bean gum in the cap is providing the gelling in the locust bean gum is getting it to act more like more like gelatin make it softer they might have a mix that can be used in a Hyatt at a high enough ratio to allow it to do gummy candies but I don't know and I doubt it's ever going to have the stretch and pull a gummy bear me and might have something similar now they're real awesome one is as you say pectin but you do have to cook the the the the crap out of packing to get it to work what you could do is cook the bulk of it and overcook it slightly and then add super concentrated fresh flavors

Mac and anastacio and I did that years ago with a Wii rotovap strawberry fresh strawberry juice down to hybrid syrup overcooked pectin and sugar and then mix it in we never achieved hard thing Vici like a toffee but it was the most delicious up you have ever had in my life I can't I wish I had that right now and so delicious was just really hard for us to calculate exactly what the bricks was because what you're doing when you're boiling is taking it to a certain temperature but you're really shooting for a certain liquid content and pectin requires high acidity and a high solids content and that's why you have to cook it you don't want to cook it you can't cook it quickly because of you cooking quickly you're going to Scorch the fruit at the bottom which is the problem why everything has to be done slowly and we're mellouli but you know maybe you can get away with adding a little bit you know after the back after it's been cooked up the temperature as long as you get to the ratios right so sorry I couldn't be super helpful but but there yet there you have it okay through these are Jackson

put my microphone out because it's just the kind of guy he is remember we don't have enough money to keep my microphone plugged in I'm just kidding there another show coming on exactly what the story is okay have a question in from Newsies radio episodes did mention that he uses a particular sharping Stone it's proven impossible to find the name by going back to all the episodes would be possible to email me the name I think was three initials are an acronym for 3 days what better than that here it is in the real life DMT I use Duo sharp DMT Diamond Whetstone when you're buying a whetstone at none of the real hardcore knife people use this not going to say I'm a bad human being for using it but when I actually sharp and everyone's like men pretty freaking shots pretty freaking shut the largest stone you can possibly get because that's going to make sharpening large Stones easy the one I have a lot to be one of the reasons why a lot of knife aficionados hate it is because it's got interrupted pattern in it and and that makes for easier

caring and less kind of coming up with your braces you're working but like real real hardcore people don't like it I like it fine what I like about this one is it stays flat forever it's very thin it's not very heavy it's unbreakable unwarrantable it doesn't need to be addressed I get the two into the 10in duosharp I buy it in I buy it in fine when I get is fine extra fine which is 25 micron grit on the Fightin side of 9 Micron grit on the other I think I've also said before and if you're a freaking psycho and you like super high like soup polishing stuff out DMT now makes 1/8 in town and Fortune out of 10 that is like a straight diamond with no interrupted holes and that has a it's super extra find 3 Micron grit which is like insanely small that's a small as most of the high-end Japanese stuff now take it to apologize but as I said many times before Japanese grits and American grits don't correlate with

each other the Japanese great numbers being hired for the equivalent thing than American grit number and secondly an actual grit number isn't necessarily going to indicate everything it indicates a certain particle size but not a spread and distribution of particle sizes nor how they are bound to the substrate so there's a lot to be known and what I really recommend you all do if you're interested in a braces is go to the unified abrasives manufacturers Association you ama.org and go to their section called abrasive greens 101 and they have a great little web thingamajig on kind of what is actually going on what the Grange look like what the different materials are why you would use different materials and what that means but if you just want a simple answer go get a t a d mt10 in Duo sharp green red yeah yeah okay and we got one last thing of a Jillian from Chris

he says he just called you that he's just had to stop and give a crap about the rest of this does not care anyway

different room in Polson just release their latest on salumi in fact I just got it I've got the news summary book is actually out yet or not do you know any way I have it I have it you know because I got it I got it anyway and just released the latest on salumi I go into some Fair detail on whole pig Butchery curing Etc where comes up a little short is on specific for curing Chambers how much air flow do you need mechanisms for controlling humidity minimum practical sizes Etc do you guys have a good reference for someone trying to set up a small / Tryon development scale chamber I want to give some kopa and Larder shot Lord of I guess before committing to a larger set up for the shop so is it going to have to live in an apartment until I can convince the boss it's ready for prime time also and what may be a long shot the website for National Center for home food preservation publication seems to have been shut down any chance you heard a has a copy of the cured meats. PDF references in November 15th 2011 radio show I think or no place to grab it okay so I went on the

National National Center for home curing food preservation and I didn't go get to go back to listen to what I said but most of their Publications are backups I don't know if you had a temporary problem where was temporarily broken and now it's back but if it's still down I'll look for the specific one that you need to find some of them are organized into walkie way to get to click next next next to get through it and can't download easily but it seems to be there now back to our room in Polson what are the great things I saw that it is they actually very early in the book said something that I need people need to say more often they said when you're making salumi in America do not try to make Italian salumi in America make American salumi I think that's a great great thanks a friend's name is Sam Sam Edwards RR good friend and one of the benefactors of the Heritage Radio he sells his hands as suriano trying to piggyback on Serrano style hands which I think is a mistake and I've told him to his face is nothing he doesn't like already know that I think is a mistake because

I think American hands are amazing delicious the end they're their own product they shouldn't be compared to Spanish and they shouldn't be compared to Italian hams there American Products the same goes with if you're making salumi he don't try to make an Italian product made what make an American when you can use Italian techniques but you should be shooting if you're trying to shoot to make somebody else's product and all you're ever going to be is a runner-up to their product if you try to make your own product then you get to be the best at that and you can focus on what makes a better what makes it worse which isn't to say you don't respect and love the procedure technique some flavors if someone uses in a place like Italy but I'll tell you what the phone told us what's the Imperial tea Court write his name of his play stuff we went out and visited he's growing tea in California now and I asked him I said what do you want the tea to taste like he said was probably the most profound thing he could say about this he says I wanted to taste like California wants to taste in other words he wants to make tea that tastes like what tea should taste like when it's growing to the best of its ability

in California anyway so that was a good point that the room in Polson brought up in that but then let's go onto your actual question if you want to see what real badass curing technology is like before I get into you actually have to see how long it takes me to get International answer for digging this. You're shaking head and giving me her I hate your face okay the Italian company travel uni which is spelled travaglini try to get any rights are the world's greatest during drying Aging in like ham and salami production equipment machine people in the world they are the best bar none they are amazing in fact there the company I always point that when I say the technology can be used for good in the production of food rather than just for making a cheaper because these guys and developed during rooms and aging rooms that are specifically designed to mimic what goes on they originally built around what goes on in Parma like an apartment and so they eat they get humidity they get temperature a cycle the humidity and the temperature inside

place to mimic the day and date the day night day and out changes and seasonal changes in the ham to cook that's what's driving the Aging along care process like ham is not just that humidity and the temperature but the shift in humidity in temperature from both season-to-season and through day-night okay so look at their stuff if you want to see some real badassery okay now you make sure that you are exactly correct in the book I look and they ought to have a rat in a rather paltry kind of amount of information on how to make a cheering thing remembered this the smaller curing chamber is less it's less stable is going to be overtime people really and they do mention it's a lot which is probably why they don't really go into it too much people love their curing rooms going back to Saint Edwards I talked about before he has a number of curing houses for his hands and he says he can know which one you could blindfold and bring them into one and you'll know which one it is based on smell because hearing houses develop their own set of micro

Define I guess overtime and those are going to influence the flavor of each one of the products so it's incredibly important so you're not going to get probably a stability of flavor in a small thing because it's too easy to push a small item one way or the other same way it's hard to get a small fish tank to stay in good shape forever because if it goes a little bit off it goes way off where is larger fish tanks can be more self corrective because there's a larger systems that said if you want it if you want it basically just hey say hey look you don't want but you said airflow I don't have a lot of data right now on air flow but you need you don't want too much airflow because it's going to cause case hardening on the outside drying off but you also might be there but for the best deal in control of a small set up and by that I mean you're going to convert a fridge to an Asian chamber or you're going to convert you know I don't know some sort of like a small box that I could not believe what a cheap deal it is in there baby back in stock they say instead in September on September 20th go to Auburn instruments

is one of their things it's fine it's okay they're the cheapest people in the world Auber instruments and check this out for 97 bucks they have a plug-and-play temperature and humidity controller that already has the sensor on it so what you do is you just plug in a humidifier or dehumidifier and a heating element into it and a handle of the 10:00 amps and put it in and just dial in what you wanted to be right so there's two ways you can do this if you know that your chamber is always going to have too low of a humidity then you can attach a humidifier to it and Jack the humidity into it if you know that the humidity is always going to be too I think it's going to be sorry that can be too humid then you can a dehumidifier to it so another way you could do it for instance you can set the humidity of a chamber by doing something like eight like if you go to Google saturated salt solution RH stand for relative humidity so sodium NaCl so you have sodium chloride table salt saturated solution if you have a saturated solution that sitting in your chamber the chamber's going to Aquila

wait to 75% humidity so if you want lower than that then you could put a dehumidifier on that sucker and you know that you're always going to need to dehumidify it slightly to get it down to 60 or 70% humidity when you're when you're done if you know if what is if the other way to do it is if you know that you're always in a relatively non humid environment you could put a fan which moves a little bit of air out of it to keep the humidity down and then put a humidifier attached to it that makes it humid as it goes but but but but but so that's it that's the way I would go about doing it and it's cheap and should work will see you when you get back when I get back from Colombia Trucking issues

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