Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 92: Sap and Stock

today's program has been brought to you by the international culinary Center offering courses that range from classic French techniques and culinary pastry and bread baking to Italian Studies to management and culinary technology to food writing from Cake Making to wine tasting for more information visit International culinary Center. Com broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn you're listening to Heritage Radio Network. Forg

Roberta's pizza Bushwick Brooklyn Natasha the hammer Lopez Jack and Joe were here early today I was here damn early I've decided that I'm going to come to the studio and do some of my research here she typically the reason I'm late is I'm researching whatever the questions are up until the last possible minute at which point I get on my bike and come here and you know I'm sweating profusely and remember one time I came I couldn't breathe I literally had to go to an early break because I couldn't could not breathe you know plus I have to buy next to a concrete manufacturing plant would she know I always and he'll text me good 15 minutes to get all the concrete dust out of my lungs so I thought to myself being you know like why not actually do some of the research here at the freaking Studio rent

it's unusual for me to do something to make sense but yeah there you have it so I start the research sound like I'll I'll leave at 3:10 instead of you know 11:20 have a caller caller you are on the are alright David Brady hey Brady already at cocktail related to a good mind is she has this thing where she goes to like a dinner party every month or so with four other couples and everybody's responsible bring in center of appetizer and then they rank them by the end of the night and some of the winter comes runner-up etcetera and they've come in V A V couples for the past couple of Vents and their daughter is beginning to think of them as losers she will till the new one coming up is an adult beverage based on a serve Mexican themed it does a food is going to be picky.

never brings in a beverage and I want to come in first their daughters like we can't have a cat's Place finish again going to be concerned consuming the adult beverage no babysitter now have they enjoyed all of the things I brought before and they thought they were good or today new friends now he like that the last time I went actually I was in Boston I went with them and they were V I mean what they brought was still good and all the food is actually really good but they work that they just are not taking it up a level where you know if you have a couple to take it really seriously in their third of doing this in their spare time right before they go

but it is a Mexican themed well I mean okay so these other people are thinking a lot are these people that kind of food snobs but yeah okay so if people are not food snobs I think it's a very bad idea to make them feel bad to guilt them into giving you points however it if someone is a food snob then the best way to win is to Pummel them with evidence such that they feel that they are the smallest human beings on Earth with their lack of knowledge in which case I would suggest making something with an extremely rare Mezcal I'll go get an extremely rare Mezcal bar it's like something that almost like it's like super tiny right so it's not even that it's a more expensive than some of the other stuff you can get his better-known like Del Maguey and all this other stuff done I didn't matter it's just that it's harder to find somebody like you don't know about this but if you going to go

Mexican me I would suggest maybe going with with it with a Mezcal there's a there's always a question do you want to try to go over the top or do you just want to go really really just like spot-on mean these people live in New York now they live in Boston are you going to be up there or no no I'm not going to be a western suburb of Boston want to do something strange that could do something similar to unite Booker and Dax bar we have a Mezcal based drink called son of a peach that has clarified peach juice in it can peach juice and mezcal so it's kind of Mexican themed but doesn't take it's not just a margarita and you know that I mean I think I'm probably going to be different from from anything that that's at that place they can play Go by clarify peach trees and do something similar I have to go get the specs and in my head I can't give it to you later but you think something like that might my twin and I have a feeling that if everyone's going to do adult everyone's doing adult beverages that's just what they have

Beverages and I'm not for sure that everyone's going to do tequila but if it's Mexican themed I can't see did you know out of the five couples that for them on are going to think outside the box and dude you know something message in base but still Mexican and we don't even have natural me like you go to super like our friend I haven't once did you know corn-based beverage as his Mexican food and beverage I mean there are kinds of things you can do to questions how challenging do you want to get do you want to just go kind of like a fruit like food knowledge Kiki do you want to get like you want it but you definitely don't want to go with tequila you want to go with one of the other Agave based beverages to guests to Tenino kind of be on an outlier like maybe a sotol or or like it really interesting Mezcal yeah you know I think you know what's an order is like a trip to my well and you know here in New York and just like to do look at that their cocktail list and then but basically steal some of their ideas

is winning going to be strictly based on on flavor or are just going to have to be some sort of strange garnish to pull out a win or the only is your favorite you vote for your favorite out of the okay then you're not allowed to go to your own accord so you go to the other four people tell stories yeah yeah so you got to beef up on the story like half of the stuff is the story I can I can if you serve people things and you have a really good story beforehand then you know that makes this stuff actually tastes better because you have this big story so I would choose so I like some sort of a rare although not necessarily expensive but you no more difficult resorts are strange spirit I would then choose like an herb or a fruit that is not kind of normal and then everything else can kind of even out like you can just use lime juice if you want to as you are as you are a city I would probably do I think it's interesting to do sturgeon

I wouldn't necessarily go for a shake and drink like a like a margarita just because that's kind of what you're expecting I would maybe go for a stir drink which you could probably pull off a little more of the sophistication and that adds a little more to the monocle in the eye food snob kind of a vibe that I think you're ready to win these sorts of things and probably get some sort of a spot on garnishment you know what the booker and Dax we kind of don't typically do that they garnish saying just because we don't want to be labeled as like dating other people who'd you know do all the fancy Tech tarnishes although in this case that seems like a probably a good idea being helpful or is it to General Shale so she started made a point of saying that she does not have liquid nitrogen you know what I mean to like they they can do stuff but

I think if it gets too difficult they're just going to not know they have two kids so if you going to do a steroid cocktail the best way to do it to get the temperature almost exactly right is especially if you're going to use a fruit juice so let's say they're going to use a fruit juice in it you can't use a fruit juice and a spirit and then stir it and then have the temperature right on Friday if you store the whole thing in the freezer then the temperature will be right because it's going to be too cold when they should do is just go buy some to an ice cube to be freezing things so that they can get like nice fairly nice me not like you know not super clear braids you know style that we usually pay a lot of money for but you know fairly nice Ice Cube's double old fashioned figure out whatever garnished glasses figure out whatever kind of Gunnar's going to use freeze the ice cubes and get the liquor bass freeze that and then keep the fruit juice or whatever and you know plus whatever water they need in the fridge then when they mix the freezer they mix the freezer Boos with the fridge

juice it'll add up to the exact right temperature in the glass least usually does and so they can get something it's in perfect condition without a lot of stirring and Messi wearing about it and that's all they have to do at home is you know book to practice is she was the booze keep it in the freezer and whatever fruit juice is it going to balance it with in the fridge do their mix testing and then and then go but start drink is going to be easier because it doesn't require a lot of texture they can pre figure out the the balance they need in terms of dilution they can all be kind of pre done mix and then just as long as you have access to that other person's freezer bag and then denies 2-inch Ice Cube and then you know a good either twist or some sort of fancy fruit as a garnish and it shouldn't take too much longer it's going to take more because I can have to think in advance what they're going to do but it shouldn't actually take many hours of work okay

Eminem I might say peach juice if you can get clarified Peach shoes even if you can't unhappy clarify just you know how that's how we roll we clarify most things like something like Peach and mezcal go very very well together because it's reminiscent of smokey kind of like a grilled Smoky Peach which which everybody likes so like Peach lime juice to sort of like Smoky Mezcal maybe even then balance with a little bit of tequila is mezcal can sometimes be a little overpowering a drink like that stirred with some sort of nice garnish in it and a double old fashioned it's not a lot of work but it's it's good you're probably gonna have to add a little bit of water just because otherwise it's going to be too intense to six straight Peach and booze and while I'm too intense then you might have to add some sugar to it like a couple bar spoons of like Demerara syrup to give it more brown sugar note which brings it more on the grilled Peach and I should be going to do. You can do a different fruit but it is summertime right

okay so just who in the final thing will you keep saying maybe troll garnish in there like what what would be a good garnish Everyone likes like some sort of like fresh piece of fruit I mean they can't back you infuse can assume they don't have backing up with a girl but they could like me know they could marinate some fruit and a different kind of a booze for a couple of days and then put it on a skewer in that always looks fast and tastes good bait should taste good garnishes shouldn't just be me and not an umbrella sort of it went okay I am I really like an umbrella and I liked it a cocktail monkey I have to say in the stocks do you enjoy the cocktail monkey yeah everyone really everyone we say that we don't enjoy it but we love it. Mingo mean who doesn't like that you know so there's that really want it you want to go Looney Tunes you can go buy some and you know but if you want to go on the kitchen side delicious even go buy some fresh juice coconuts are still available right now and then serve everyone you know half the top off drain the stuff out throw the Coconuts in the freezer those become the glass

and then you can make a drink you can normally I do wrong with the coconut water stuff because but you can definitely balance out of Mezcal tequila drink with coconut water and and then serve written in that thing of coconut which is if you want to go on the kitchen side is cool as long as you like how we know it's Kitsch but now the monocle poppy monocle out of your eye and then you never said okay that's good I wrote all those down day so that's very helpful I'm going to pass it along and fingers crossed that she went from last week I'm going to call to 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 okay question from last week. I didn't answer from Brian I don't think I didn't answer the question today I've heard the Birch syrup is also wonderful and different from April's maple syrup what do you know about it is true that Maples are not the only trees that are tapped for the

shop to produce syrup Birch is as well I have had Birch syrup only once and it was many years ago I would say like 6 years ago when I first kind of learned about it and I don't realize I can't really say that I've tasted it because the sample that I got a birch syrup was in my opinion flawed it tasted like it did kind of had a sour taste to it that I wasn't expecting and it tasted like it has been burned a bit when it was being reduced and so I'm going to go ahead and say that I haven't actually had Birch syrup at its at what I assume is going to be it's best I will say this about Birch syrup the production is incredibly small we should go get some more to see what it's like now because I and I love anything anything like that you know says we should get some fresh air bursts app has a much lower sugar content than maple sap does and so you have to acquire more of it and boil it down more but

to hear anyone else's experience on births at me maybe it's supposed to have a little bit of a sour note to it maybe it's supposed to taste a little bit burnt but my impression of it was that my sample was flawed and I handed it to a bunch of chefs I gave some to Nell's I gave some to a bunch of people I said do you think that this is what this is supposed to be like or do you think this is flawed and everyone said this is flawed so I don't I don't I can't say I know what it what it taste like by also I am intrigued and I love any sort of freak so you know if you can use Birch syrup then pay let's do it let's get it right so I can you might help okay now we have another question that I didn't get to on Kreme cream liqueurs and I said I would deal with this week so here I am so I looked up on the interwebs a some recipes from industrial recipes for making a cream liqueurs and what's what's in them

and typically it don't you don't you're not required to have an emulsifier in the cream liqueur although it can help but they are typically in the range of 12 to 16% milkfat 15 to 20% sugar at two to two-and-a-half to three and a half percent sodium caseinate that's milk protein nonfat milk solids one two three and a half percent and 14% booze balance of 46 to 50% water. What does this mean what is this what is this mean it means they're fairly high in fat and they are clearly having it milk solid and casein and the casein is acting as the emulsifier there to keep everything together which is a protein notice the booze content by that I mean ethanol is low so it's in the range of 14 % so I think that once you add more alcohol the alcohol is going to start to destabilize the emotion so if you know the color that called him before I think he was high

phase separation problems if my memory serves me right not curdling not braking but phase separation and so to me that means that you the emotion is destabilize and that might be because the alcohol content is too high the other thing that you might want to do what you what he said and an emulsifier and by adding an emulsifier to it you're going to reduce the amount of creaming IE separate family separation of that you have and you going to want to go look at a book that's going to be the next book that I try and get on it highly technical stuff called food emulsifiers in their applications by Gerard passing who's whole house and who twirl I think it's how you pronounce the person's name and it really talks about the different kinds of emulsifiers and why you would use one versus the other and when you're when you're using something in a in a cream liqueur you want to use what's called an elf attending emulsifier and it's just a technical term mouth attending Mosa Mosa fire and those types of emulsifiers tend to form films their film-forming emulsifiers

at the interface between a liquid and an oil should a water-based liquid in an oil-based liquid or air or whatever and so are those film-forming ones are better at stabilizing things and cream Emulsion and one of those Alpha tending film-forming emulsifiers is propylene glycol monostearate or pgms we have a caller caller on the air hey how you doing I'm doing great how are you doing he slow and retarded are you

so I'm working on the equipment list for my first restaurant going to be a service small lunch time place and I want to get your advice on whether I should go Paco jetforce another kind of ice cream machine okay okay so eat you familiar with pure food here in Manhattan, Mound Isis restaurant and she is the only person I've ever seen who does all of her ice creams in Paco jet all of them and and she had an ice cream shop attached to the restaurant called go get some shots called Lucky Duck or something like that one lucky duck and cheated out like a lot of ice cream service just out of the pocket jet so it is feasible even if someone is pushing a lot of ice cream to do it but how much ice cream do you plan on serving

I'm not as hot as I like it's going to be an ice cream restaurant but I want the flexibility that you know if I'm doing a dish to have an ice cream cone. I would imagine it would be smaller scooped you know it's not like I would be 1 days late is fantastic at having lots of flavors available in smaller quantities so you could kind of it's feasible to have like a flavor base that is there and then you know even if you only use a scoop at night it's okay because you can only you can only process the amount you need and keep the rest kind of ant and you can reprocess it again and get it back in the perfect Emperor unlike normal ice cream where you make the batch and then from there on out there it's turning to crap you know as you look at it it's it's losing its it's you know stuff it's Crystal decrystallize recrystallizing pop up losing its texture Paco get is fantastic texture process if you need to

text in 1 scoop night long I mean if you're spending the entire Paco jet container that probably takes in another 2 minutes or something like that all told no maybe three that's loud you know so you wouldn't necessarily want to have it in front of a customer but it doesn't take a long time and processing just be a one or two things doesn't doesn't take very long at all though we want Rick if you have to some people pre spend some just because it's sometimes it gets a little soft when it you know right after it's finally like the firm it up a little more the big product right big brother pocketjet is the freezer temperature that you have it at is critical it take to the making sure that if it's too cold if it's too cold the product comes out kind of powdery if it's too warm the product comes out soupy chili it's a lot about temperature maintenance in inside the freezer and specially during a busy service going in and out making sure you can maintain that temperature stability and I think that's why a lot of people will process a couple of school

and then you know keep those Scoops in a dipping well or whatever but you know I've done it out of a freezer at you every one kind of gets that thing to work in their own sort of way they won some of the problems with Paco jets are that if they break they might have gotten better but years ago which is the last time that you know I had to use one a bunch at the school if one breaks they don't necessarily get you a loan instantly and then you're without a paco Jet and so you know I've had to help people out if you have a friend that has one that can loan you one when yours is down or if you can afford to have a second one lying around you know then it's kind of okay but you know they break more they used to break more often than friends since the carpet Johnny's do now, Johnny you know you know the lb100 is going to take up a lot more space in your kitchen which I don't know where that's at a premium it's going to cost like 12 Grand you know what I mean that they're sent their fantastic but if you don't need the volume on the carpet Johnny's then

I would say you know what Paco Jed is viable just you know just be aware of the of the issues make sure that that whoever you buy from it and I haven't had to buy him a long time but make sure that whoever you buy from is going to help you get the parts quickly it's not like all the parts are kind of proprietary on the inside like all the belts and cogwheels are not labeled with any sort of normal labeling so you can't just go to an industrial website and buy the parts for it which is irritating but they're great the texture is great they're fantastic the other the other issue that's expensive is the stainless steel containers are expensive and people in your kitchen is going to tend to not realize that there are not beIN Marie's and set them around which can be also problematic the guys at Pure Food and Wine used to freeze their stuff in quart containers and then Jam nose into the stainless steel buckets for spinning and it works great the one problem is is that if you jam it in crooked and it's loose

and the blade as it comes down hits it cockeyed you can shatter the blade so you know it's it's a question of what you know what risks are going to take it won't ruin the package yet but it could you know could cause that kind of problem man into the into the stands but it's not an exact fit you have to really jam it down and make sure it's not a name of the book up the blade really doesn't want to all of a sudden hit something thicker than its you know incremental slicing are great for aperol that I complain about the fact that they cost a lot and you know that they're they're still fantastic piece of equipment

commercial break in your shoes

is up in the south from the budos band

International culinary Center is a proud sponsor of the Heritage Radio Network. Org the ICC with locations in New York and California provide cutting-edge education to Future chefs restaurateurs and wine professionals we are proud to claim Dan Barber Bobby Flay and David Chang among their honors alumni this is Dorothy can't Hamilton from Chef story check it out ICC website and international culinary Center. Com

what's the music that you put there with Dorothy Noah Wyle on the second commercial and we got some good games over you a lot actually nice I appreciate promotions good

I don't care. I don't care don't talk to me I'm emailing pick up all right I have somebody real quick I listen to ask if if nastassia is is actually this is real that I can actually like rolling her eyes in the studio sometimes cuz it sounds like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I confirm that it does indeed happen right now

awesome okay she didn't have the dead at 10 a.m. this morning the dead came in at noon just so you know just so you know that wasn't there at 10 that's only their new okay this question in from GI sumich Jean and not as young Jean deaux which is awesome names right like me like no likes donut spell donut donut that's that's a horrible combination so like like don't you work with me and two ideas in food want to poach using ocean water any thoughts on dilution or other cancer I wouldn't dilute it right it's just I would filter the heck out of it you know what I mean and make sure that you don't get it from like the swampy tidal pool thing which is why I responded to this on the on the Twitter but just saying I don't think it would be aware that she water is a lot more bitter than saltwater because there are many other salts in

seawater other than other than you know sodium chloride table salt and to kind of get an idea what that does for flavor you can pick up nigari which is even Japanese salt that they use to set tofu you can also set tofu by the way in seawater is possible to set tofu in seawater that's no school at doing it but if you taste nigari which are all the sauce left over after the most of the sodium chloride is removed that bitterness is what you get out of seawater so just be aware that that flavors every people have been using micro filter seawater for you know you know how long long time us it was especially popular ingredient in kind of high-tech Spanish cooking and probably still is for all I know okay we got an anonymous in please ask Dave Arnold if venison from a deer Adam would Lyme disease is still edible yuck from Anonymous before I answer what do you think just because you know me and my

which is the Center for Disease Control website and kind of looked up to see what the theory is and Lyme disease is a disease actually you know it can be easy to treat if you catch it early if you don't catch it early it can be really horrible and can call central nervous system problems that can be persistent almost indefinitely the it could be really bad and they named after the town in Connecticut nearby here lime where I guess it was first noticed and you get it from deer ticks most you know most from deer ticks and it has a life cycle that goes from Deer Tick to Rodan to Deer bite me all around this big circle and you get it the tick bites you the spirochete is injected into you and then you get to Lyme disease sometimes you get a bull's-eye rash sometimes you don't and you get muscular you know his muscular pains and headaches blurry

can you spray it with that with the antibiotics that you got to catch you early okay there's no evidence is it from the CDC directly there's no evidence that Lyme disease a transmitted from person to person so you can't get it from infected from touching kissing or having sex with a person has lyme disease so what this means is that bodily fluid contact is not what's going to cause the Lyme disease who similarly although a Lyme disease during pregnancy can cause problems a lot of problems such as an infection of the placenta and what not if the baby makes a baby baby's okay and although there have been no cases of Lyme disease linked to blood transfusion they still don't recommend that you give blood if you know you have Lyme disease so it is means what all this means is that you're not going to get it from eating venison or squirrel meat and they say my friends instead you're not going to get Lyme disease from eating venison a squirrel meat but I'm keeping the general food safety principles meat should always be cooked thoroughly and here's the cures the key the key is a note hunting and dressing deer

are squirrels made bring you into close contact with infected ticks so if you are hunting a deer that are been addled with Lyme disease then you are in much greater contact with the with the you know the environment where you're going to get a tick so you do deer do take checks be careful put you know repellents on you to keep ticks from jumping on you you know I took your clothes and whatever that is pyrethrin River days of stops at the tick from getting there but that's the main thing that disease that no one knows what the what the final thing is going to be on isn't Lyme disease it's chronic wasting disease what you get from Elk and I guess other dear but not here on the East Coast you get it in a kind of the north middle of of the country and this is a spongiform encephalopathy you know a t s c a transfer transmissible spongiform encephalopathy similar to scrutchfield mad cow and causing neurological disease in Elk and deer

not not fought to be transmissible to humans however why is word on the street is that you never know when the TSC which is a print it's up there prion related to like this weirdo protein free online Jesus when they're going to be able to change a little bit and make the jump from one animal prints cows get mad cow disease to human beings so we don't know like we don't know whether there's ever going to be a sheep based scrapie that can come over to two hours we don't know if there's going to be a chronic wasting disease that can jump and come to us and the fun part about you know transmission transmissible spongiform encephalopathies is they have something like 10-15 year incubation. So the thing that kills you you could have eaten 10 15 years ago awesome right that's super happy times super happy time and so because of that I make a general rule of not eating not eating a brain matter or nerve tissue unless

Exxon really offers it to me and I'm like and I feel like I'm going to be extremely rude not eating it because being in politis is much worse than dying in 15 years not really but it's kind of what happened so I tend to stay away from that stuff and I know a lot of other people that do to just because we don't know how that stuff going to suss out yet

hello Dave nastasha Jack and Joe finally everything so we're getting called out in the right in the right stuff they have you mentioned several shows including the last one that you like making chicken stock at home in the pressure cooker evoluted several changes to regular recipes are required to get a good result such as doubling or tripling tripling the amount of onion using less water Etc could you spell out specifically a typical recipe that you will you that you would use I also I make a cocktail that uses a leukemoid puree however it's very difficult to find here in the Bay Area and I cannot always get it do you know of any reasonable substitute I could try I bought lucuma powder but I haven't had much luck it doesn't taste the same and imparts a gritty texture to the drink thanks love the show Michael and Oakland California okay let me handle this in Reverse I don't yet have a good substitute for lucuma puree I haven't used it really that much I've had it kind of preserve but I've never had the fresh stuff I've had similar related

from South America and Colombia but I'm going to have to do more research on it in fact I'm going to Columbia and at the end of August and I'm in Loomis Peruvian Peruvian superfood Gabby's that they're doing a good job marketing so when I go I'm specifically going to do some research I'm going to try to get the fresh stuff is closely related as I can to it even though it will not I'm walking through up in Columbia and then the other services and then once I have more experience using the real deal fresh stuff then I will be able to make a good substitution for powdered you know ya typically things like that might impart a gritty texture to it to a drink in the real questions are you adding the Lou come up for for what purpose for cream in S4 taste for what so I'm going to do more research and then if you want to send an email back like in the beginning of next month right when I get back from Colombia I'll have an answer for you and also please email y-noah

what is you want what it is you want to mimic about The Look by everything or just a flavor or just a texture right and then we can kind of work from there okay now back to the stock when I make it so I don't actually have a specific recipe I'm feel like I'm like I'm really doing you wrong Michael but I don't have like a specific recipe that I use I just know that I kind of I always do stocks really by I which is dumb but when I do it at home I'll typically I'll typically won't even roast off my bones out I'll Brown the bones in a in a pan sauce to chicken like I'll take chicken a lot of facts and you know the actual EXs made from that usually when I fry chickens I have a lot of Bones and backs and stuff left over drive all the bones in fact because I make boneless Fried Chicken I'll chop them up fairly fine and then I'll I'll cook them actually in the pressure cooker in batches just that I don't have to go roast when I'm cooking

you know in a professional kitchen I'll roast and I'll let you know I'll also like roast off the vegetables as well and then put them in I do typically add probably twice as much onion when I'm doing pressure cookers what I'm doing a traditional stock you don't need to just be aware that the onion flavor will be different and will be a little bit muted you can add a little bit of fresh onion afterwards and do like a 10-15 minutes simmer of freshly sweated not fresh fresh onions to Freshly sweated onions to to vulture vulture that back up don't alter your celery or your carrot amount or it'll come out kind of to carry into celery jamna bones down in as hard as I can and then I add water basically just to cover the bones and no more and I think you know what one of the issues it'll everything depends on what you going to use it for its you know from years of having the stock that they make at the at the French Culinary Institute now the ICC in my opinion all of that stock was it's too too watery so like normal professional procedure is to

add excess water and then boil it for a permit for a very very long time and in the end you always end up having to reduce that stock before you use it because the flavor profiles just not high enough now from an economic standpoint it does make sense to use except well not accepting the cost of gas do I boil stuff down it makes some economic sense to use excess water because it means that the flavor of the liquids that are left in the stuff after you drain it have less of the less of the flavor and protein in them than they would if you deleted it and then you can boil it back down my feeling kind of goes back to reading you know Peterson's book so many times is that the super long boiling times and reduction concert production while intensifying flavors Canton to dull the flavor so I prefer to make a much more flavorful initial stock even though I might lose some of that flavor in in the fact that they're still is liquid clinging to the bones and whatnot when they

so when I'm doing it at home I try to go for the most flavorful one cuz cost in tessera initial not serving a lot of people I'm just trying to effectively use a whole bunch of chicken backs that I have in car, so I'll actually do a triple stock I'll do I'll do veg and then I'll roast off a whole bunch of Bones and I'll put pack am in Phil just over the top with water hit it once and then drain that want to play with a fresh thing of Bones and do it again I don't do rental Yash at home just because I don't do what I made it home but you know if you want to do around me stock with it you also could

anyway sorry I don't have a specific obviously I don't salt the stuff because I don't know what I'm going to use it for later if you're making a broth or soup you know do whatever you do whatever you want I do typically add peppercorns beforehand and Bay just because I'm used to it even though Jeffrey steingarten tells me that I'm an idiot for doing so because all that's happening there is imparting bitterness from the pepper and not the aroma which is very fleeting and goes away but I like that bitterness so I'm going to do it anyway even though Jeffrey told me I shouldn't what do you think the keys are pressure cooker stock she actually tends to be more Miss Vicki rice pressure cooker things actually know I snuck around you know the Amazon I had to look inside on Amazon cuz I don't actually own her book and it didn't give me the one keep a 8in American Amazon so I went to Amazon UK and they gave me that one page so they like you know if at first you don't succeed on the Amazon look inside try a different country try a different country again thank God I didn't have to go to

Amazon. Czechoslovakia whatever cuz I wouldn't be able to read that I have to go to translation which is an irritation for like half an hour which I think is reasonable but not on piste the

you know what we're testing I think the Blumenthal cooks for like an hour we were running our test the French culinary I think we cooked an hour or longer for a pressure cooker stocks really you're going to get special you chop up the butt of the bones pretty fine you going to get the vast majority of extraction in a half an hour at 15 psi and so I think that's probably good enough half hour 45 minutes then let it come down naturally be coming down naturally is the key on the recipe there so that you're not boiling all the stuff out of the of the bones and causing all sorts of a multiplication problems which were going to deal with in a second because the next question should take a break real quick

oh yeah there's like 5 minutes so I maybe it's just power through it I think it's probably good idea to take enough y'all anyway thanks very much for not being weak and helpless I can certainly get enough of this right side Stars has enough of me all the time we have and I could work at Dave I was wondering when your book is supposed to be put on the market well I have to finish writing it first and the fact that I have not written it is putting me in deep hot water with my publisher but yeah sure that I it's like I like my top priority now is finishing this book and but after I write it it's still going to be about a year before it comes out of the market so unfortunately no time to soon

and second? Food-related and having a little trouble as stocks lately I always blanch a roast my bones and a scam scam scam Pastor is chinois and and cloth like you know cheesecloth after reducing by half or more in chilling I still notice they're being too much suspended particulate what's going on also this refers to beef and chicken stock not pork thank you very much Philly okay there's an interesting article on Clarity and whatnot that I don't have time to sell you to go through in detail but you can get the abstract for it online and take a look at it it's called the effects of cooking temperatures on the physicochemical properties and consumer acceptance of chicken stock by Mark krasnow which came out in 2011 and they they basically do cold start similar to 85 Celsius for a long time and it's cold water start hot water start at 85 Coldwater start cooked at 99c and hot water start cooked at 99

Celsius and they run through you know questions of whether which is clear which is cloudy which has higher protein which has higher taste acceptance and I will just read maybe their final results over all the results of studies show that they are there is a clear physicochemical difference between stocks book at 85 Celsius is a simmer and 99 which is right at the boil the starting temperature of the water however did not greatly affect the properties you searching however the protein extraction is greater and cold started stocks was partially supported by the results of this study for the stocks look at 99c the one that was hot started had more does all protein than the one that was at 8585 had more dissolved protein than the hot started 85 okay so go read their paper on it because it's too complicated to suss out you know just us out instantly they didn't mention by the way that blanching beforehand

wish shopping made in a tree as part of their study but it's it's in there in the discussion so you should definitely read about it but I'll give you my my my points my points on it okay so what you do is you said you blanch a roast your bones first and then skin skin skin now the skin is supposed to get the scum off the top that otherwise get the most vital to the side by the way you do this initial thing we just came off the initial stuff and then you want to boil the hell out of it for certain Chinese stocks because they actually want to emulsify the fat so they're using protein to emulsify the fat into your into your stock and that's based that's the idea to call that cream stocks are milk Stouts I haven't got to like them too much but I haven't had that much experience with him but I'm just maybe just I'm not used to them I'm sure they're great in their it when they're used properly but I have enough experience with it so so you want to do the opposite of that for a normal stock which is to you want to bring it up to the boil and then skim the stuff that floats off the top because that's going to continue

proteins that are going to if they get turned in will help to emulsify fat into your stock was going to make it cloudy all right so so one thing I want to make sure you're not doing is that you're not you're not thinking too hard right the second thing as you say you pass it through a chinois and cloth and then after reducing by half or more and chilling there's too much to spend a particulate here's what you need to do you need to pass it through a chinois and a cloth carefully like Layla don't upset or stirring around too much like poor it gently and whatnot then chill it first before you reduce it if you reduce before you chill it you're not going to get all of the fat and stuff off the top you supposed to chill it they'll be a little separate into layers you separated and then scoop out the Chalet hey then reduce the Chalet so maybe maybe that's the problem you're having so the one probably might be having boiling a little bit too hard it sounds like you're skinny get enough so that's probably not the issue

and the other thing is make sure you chill it thoroughly before you do any reduction and if those aren't the problems there could be other things like the type of maybe Europe including bits of the chicken like a certain giblets can apparently cause cause cloudy stops or what not but call me or email us back and tell us what the issues are okay we're about to have to go but I just want to but when we have one last what is the Twitter email coming in hey Dave nastasha and Jack. Just want to say the chonga demo at shs last week was a great time I didn't make it to the cocktail demonstration of the 10th but I'm sure it was awesome thank you I'm a big fan of iced coffee usually cold brewed and sparkling water that when I combine the two it isn't a good result any tips on how to make a sparkling ice coffee I'm particularly looking at ways to improve the mouthfeel also is there a way to make a cocktail version thanks Tim okay very good question Tim will take this is our last question today

there are certain coffee bar Services blue bottle in San Francisco that serve you carbonated water with your with your espresso shot and it's kind of interesting to different amounts of also Columbia here in the uni New York you can get some carbonated water with your with your special shopping and stuff you wouldn't like the carbonated water I think it's her San benedetto which is not your favorite cuz you call it that I would be both God could have carbonation level 3 like me likes a very bubbly bubble bubble I am wholeheartedly agree so this is one situation where I'm not going to rant against installation food choices because we problem is is that are you get some very unusual results when you add the bubbliness which has that sharp biting and people perceive as acidic although I don't receive it that way you know that the song

and says that I do but I don't feel about that way when that's mixed with coffee can be kind of strange if you want to taste the only commercially carbonated coffee thing that I know of there's a soda called Manhattan special coffee soda which I don't know whether it's only Regional or not he had that check what do you think about it I think it's pretty awesome yeah it's a local specialty though right exactly it's hard it's actually pretty hard to find to Brooklyn right yeah yeah yeah yeah but so what you should do is try to get ahold of that and then paste that to see kind of what the commercial version of it is but yeah it is it is a unique it is a unique kind of flavor my only problem with Manhattan Special is that it's kind of too sweet you know what do you think Joe too sweet or do you like it that way to do it

making a cocktail and you want to carbonate it or any sort of carbonated coffee beverages coffee especially espresso which is what I deal with has some foaming properties to it and so it can form like I would like a weasel and you want a carbonated so when you uncap a carbonated coffee drink especially espresso which has lot of suspended solids in it you're going to you're going to get some serious foaming problem if you are a milk and coffee person and you want to carbonate at the milk and have problems because you can get curly reactions with certain milk-based things especially the alcohol level goes up but you're even more going to have an extreme extreme foaming a problem and so are you going to have to make a very small amount of it and then let it foam off in order to in order to get it to to work properly and I have to think more out if anyone has a good carbonated coffee thing please all right I'm interested because I haven't done enough experimenting with carbonation and coffee but I definitely have experimented with it when I make coffee drinks I want them super foamy and creamy and cocktail

I don't use CO2 I use nitrous oxide which makes a nice creamy beverage and you can I've made many coffee cocktails with nitrous oxide although they do phone and that gives you the super creaminess if you get out of a fresh cup of coffee but in a cold situation so I would try nitrous instead of CO2 unless you really want the prickly texture of CO2 in which case experimental cooking issues

thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network. Org you can find all of our archive programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes Store by searching Heritage Radio Network you can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio you can email us questions at any time at info at Heritage Radio Network. Org Heritage Radio network is a nonprofit organization to donate and become a member visit our website today thanks for listening