Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 91: Shellfish and Fish Sauce

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hello and welcome to cooking issues is Dave Arnold Euros to cooking she's coming to you live from a network every Tuesday in the theater box in a box in the back of a bird Pizzeria with are you and Jack and Joanne engineering remind doing guys okay first of all I'm going to Michael Mike in a butcher your last name is anyone here know how to pronounce I'm terrible price if I was going to call you Michael

I don't want to destroy your last name okay there's any tried anyway Suzuki sent me a copy of a fuchsia dunlop's book a Land of Plenty a treasury of authentic Szechuan Cuisine a book by the way which I do not own even though I've been meaning to get some fuchsia Dunlop books because she was recommended To Us by our good friend Harold the gate because she I showed him around at various places in China when he was there any way he rides thank you for answering my questions on seasoning pans enjoy the great book about my favorite type of Chinese food thanks for all the effort you put into the podcast Mike very nice very nice thank you a question I missed from last week from a very Kacey I hope again with me with the pronunciation I should just never pronounce the name Hey listen when you're writing something in even if your name is Smith assume I don't know how to pronounce it and just put aloe pronunciation guy next to my right

Connemara true true the question was clearly over cooking shrimp boil packets Twitter shrimp sausage corn potato onion garlic and Zatarain's spice question was perfect sous-vide recipe or timing okay I mean that whenever you cook shrimp for shrimp while you're overcooking the hell out of the shrimp which is definitely the case probably mean definitely the case I'm assuming that you're not overcooking by too much your sausage your corn your onion or potato and you're definitely not overcooking your sat around spices my guest but I am not a huge fan of low temperature shellfish unless they are post finished now usually lets I was going to cook a lobster or shrimp anytime you going to cook a shellfish you don't want to cook it for too long so you cook it for too long

are very low temperature the enzymes and it keep working especially low temperature actually the enzymes keep working and they turn mushy in some cases they can almost turn to a paste and it's the most revolting paste that you've ever put in your mouth that you feel like you have to spit it out now it doesn't always happen and I can't I haven't figured out yet why sometimes shrimp has this enzyme and if it does that to it and sometimes it doesn't maybe someone out there knows why it's a variable situation however

I actually prefer when things are shellfish are cooked not overcooked and Sara Lee but cooked at a higher temperature and have that slide spring in his to them but don't but you aren't aren't totally overdone Lobster the way you would cook a lobster say so I assume shrimp is somewhat similar low temperature is usually you would put it into a bath of butter at roughly 60 degrees Celsius for roughly this is after you take him to tell me doubt you put on a skewer you put in a roughly 10 minutes so that's what you're looking at for low temperature but the texture of it is always very very soft and I actually like a little more by to my Lobster than that now on shrimp would I typically do whenever I'm doing kind of boil things with shrimps is a rip off the shelves and and heads and I will roast roast them to get some flavor

can Infuse them into the soup base separately pull them in discard them separately Groot like you know basically Grill cooked shrimp at a high temperature and tells just Don and then at the very end as I'm putting the soup out I will fold it back in that way I get to maximum flavor from the shelves and whatnot into the other a lot of the really thin shell trip we get there's not as much labor in the shows that you like but you get the flavor for that into your into your into your suitcase and you don't viciously over cook the shrimp on the sausage I usually recommend cooking my sausage at 60° Celsius and you can cook that in a bag and then post chop it up and enfold it in later you're not going to get done any flavor of that sausage into the stock so you might want to reinforce the stock with some other flavors if you're going to do it that way but the best way you should handle because none of those ingredients cook properly at the same temperature the potatoes going to need to be at least above 85 Celsius for a pretty in a long length of time to print to cook out properly

yes but that definitely above 85 Celsius for a good length of time to cook and so none of these things want to cook at the same temperature so typically I cook them individually add flavor to the stocking layers and we can buy at the end and I do that all the time with any sort of took a liking it when you're making like up my god names going out of my head the the soup that is from the soup taste spicy basil sausage with garlic bread and from San Francisco anyone anyone anyone want to make Cioppino I cook everything separately you know and make a stock basically from the bones in the drippings from the actor Ice-T mile steam out like all of the muscles are shellfish and what not save the Steven juices make a stop with the fish bones cook the stuff and then recombine it all at the end and that's always been the best way I get to maximum flavor nothing's overcooked wailing

hey Dave and group group group from Matt I recently have made two dishes in my pressure cooker one was a chicken stock based on Heston blumenthal's recipe SM Blumenthal recommends finely chopping up the chicken pieces and then either deep frying I think a roasting I haven't actually read it but this is my is my impression of it and then pressure cooking that for I think quite a long time and of course he doesn't mention it in the book but I looked at the pictures of it he recommends using a Kuhn rikon pressure cooker which it when facial he recommends it I eat that's what he uses because it's non venting if you go back on the cooking issues blog back to antino 2009 or whatever you know I wrote a bunch of post one to post on why I think that's very important your pressure cooker not be venting out when you're making stocks because the stocks in a pressure cooker that allow steam to escape 10 to not taste as good in in my opinion octopus recipe

I want to remove the lid the smell was less than appetizing I don't know if I would call it a sulfur smell but but in that family in the cell for family my wife thought the chicken has gone bad but it's no fun when I put it into the pot I thought it was maybe that suffer from the onions or garlic but then I did it with the octopus and got the same result for the octopus I use water salt paprika and pressure cook for 45 minutes I know there was no onion and I don't think I use garlic also I've done tons of meat with onion garlic in the past and never had any problems any thoughts on what's causing the odor okay it's definitely not the onion in fact onions are almost completely deodorize by pressure cooking in looking behind by the way with these kinds of things in the past notably Julia Child in mastering the art of French cooking has a pressure cooker to say she doesn't like certain things in the pressure cooker pressure cook stock is one of them because she says that it has a pressure cooker taste in back and reviewing what she's doing I don't think what she's talking about is what you're talk

but I think for her like part of the problem is as bad as anyone who cooks a lot in a pressure cooker knows especially socks you need to double and triple the onions and the recipe because they're just not going to come through as much or as some at the end after it's been untappd she also probably didn't take into account the fact that there's very little to no reduction on the inside of a pressure cooker so she has all of her stocks uncap and then simmered afterwards open for another hour or so to get the flavor where she thinks they should be for for a normal stock so I'm not discounting Julia Child because he's crazy that's like a Nokona a suicide discount to a child I'm going to have to say that I'm not sure that her opinion is necessarily well-taken on pressure cookers now

I've never had what you're describing happen in a chicken stock my question is did the did all of the giblets going maybe you're getting an effect with the liver cooking for a long time in the pressure cooker I don't know that's never happened to me I've never gotten an off flavor from a chicken stock I will say that I do not cook chicken stock as long in the pressure cooker as many other people do at home I actually only cook it for about 25 minutes at 15 psi or both rings but at the school when I was running out of the test we were doing it 45 minutes I know people cooking it a lot longer and I think going back to your octopus that the main problem on your octopus might be the length of time you're cooking most of the recipes that I've seen I have the octopus only cooking for 20 to 30 minutes I think if you overcook it too long you might be creating some flavors in there that otherwise wouldn't be there otherwise I can't explain what's what's going on there is definitely not the

it's not the onion snot onion or garlic if anyone out there has experience with ears and nose are talking about 9 just in his experience this kind of off waiver I really appreciate you writing or tweeting and saying what's going on because I'd like to solve this problem sorry Matt they don't have anything more to say but there it is all right here we go call back to cooking issues with all over this town is it to the bride song ladies night

and that's not right. He believed in healthy eating are veggies and supporting local check out Brad's raw chips a local producer that created irresistible chips after their namesakes successful weight loss with a Roll Lifestyle their chips are gluten free nutrient pot and so good that you'll think you're indulging for more information visit Brad's raw chips. Calm music is songs called I'm how and the band called clexa phonic who mailed us there CD after hearing me talk about original music on cooking issues so we got the CD mail to us in the office at the Nice Notes it is a long time listener and that's his band nice Plex

play some other stuff from that like siphonic that's the right question in also by the way we've got that right trying to make it extremely thick simple syrup glucose syrup thick for his bartender and it keeps crystallizing any suggestions yeah it's very very difficult to make simple syrup with sugar that are as thick as glucose serum in fact for several reasons one glucose inherently doesn't form crystals as much as sucrose does right so right off their you ain't your off the bat you got issues secondly there are other things in their dextrans in Malta Texans and glucose syrup that are adding to the thickness of it but aren't going to form crystals so you're kind of shaft in two ways there glucose syrup if my memory serves me is I've got

bricks in the area that 80% meaning glucose syrup is about 80% solid which is hard freaking cor you know I typically when you make a witch simple said when you make a two-to-one simple syrup you're talkin about a bricks of about 66 right regular one to one simple syrup is a breaks the 50 if you do it by weight which is how we do it I even had a mirror 66 bricks right which is a two-to-one simple syrup it can start forming some crystals eventually in it you might be able to push that up a little higher 70 or so but you're not going to get much higher than that using sucrose you could use an invert like a trembling which will have roughly similar sweetening properties to and get the sugar content that high but not with in a regular Domino's Sugar that you have well I'm not pumping the Dominos

shelf you could attempt to invert Yourself by long cooking but in general than they are going to have problems with that turning brown and all the surveyed so I think you're kind of in for a world of hurt trying to get that you could artificially second it with

thickeners but then it's going to have that artificial thickener to the questions why do you want it to be that sick if you just wanted to be much sweeter without adding water I think you're going to be Sol another alternate mean glucose glucose syrup in very sweet you know none of those things are really mean they're really really think I'd have to know why you wanted it sick to recommend a way to do it but you're not going to get a regular 100% sucrose syrup that steak without a crystallizing out just will not happen in my opinion someone call me and tell me that I'm wrong all your questions to 718-497-2128 questions

hey Dave nastasha curious from behind Wall Street Journal paywall which I guess I mean they illegally sent it to me why are they paid for it is not a question I'm not calling from Steve he says a professor is trying to use the Steelers Grande as a healthy food additive although I don't know how healthy it is my understanding is most it's mostly fiber around them from Grand I'm against ethanol from grain but if it's created it may be good to find a variety of uses or perhaps it's a fool Fool's errand also and this is the this is a penny to Steve and not necessarily the opinion of anyone here Arthur Daniel 8 p.m. is the devil incarnate what do you mean by that Jack you hate that you hate the ATM right Archer Daniels Midland or have you pronounce Pro again I feel, I have no, because I don't want anyone knocking on my door and putting a bullet in my head I've been kidding they don't do that they don't they don't but I don't think I don't know anyway thanks by the way

I never listen live to the podcast come in handy okay so the story is it when your distilling anything from anything you have left over after the fermentation and boiling process you have whatever you had left so if it's grants grain if it's spent grape you know whatever is spent if you're doing Brandy it's it's that so either's all the stuff left over now what you going to do with it you don't want to just throw it away because that's a waste you paid for the grain or whatever and so now you have to do something with the leftovers otherwise you're you're a moron Megan I'm not actually tasted directly wet distillers grain spent from the production of Maker's Mark bourbon and I thought of pretty good actually cuz it's got a weird kind of a funky flavor to it but that's not what it doesn't get served two people typically what happens is is it gets sent to livestock for the livestock to 220 on

but it's cheap it's basically a byproduct and if you feed it to something to make me doubt of it then win-win okay but in this article on Wall Street Journal this guy a mr. Christian and his whole idea is he wants to send he wants to use these things in human food products but what he's doing is basically what everyone does when they have a cheap food product is they try to make it as Bland and tasteless as possible so they can jack it into food without you noticing in other words here's what he says literally this is a quote for him if I can make it Bland then I can do lots of Trixie says he then Tessa how much regular flour this is directly from the article he test how much regular flour he can replace if I put too much in there he says it'll be a brick and cookies don't go beyond 7% chocolate chips come in handy too I can hide anything if I have enough chocolate he says and that just goes to show you I mean anyone who knows me knows what I'm going to say right away based on what he

Jazz which is if you're adding something because you want to save a nickel and Jack food with it then I think you're you're doing some bad stuff to food theoretically you can make some argument that that's not basically it's a there's a lot there's protein is a lot of protein and spent grains and a lot of fiber so if you're having problems with the pooper and you need a lot of extra fiber in there or if you're the one American who can afford to buy cookies that are jacked with you know this Penta spent distillers grain and also has a protein deficiency cuz I doubt that the loads and loads of hungry which there are many hungry people in the United States people to send forget this a lot of hungry children in the in the United States especially which is horribly sad I don't think those are the people who are going to be able to afford to go get you know cookies that are jacked up with with spent grain do you think Stars so I could be wrong

is chip cookies please kids that don't have nothing to eat and so what I'm going to do is jacket with stuff and nobody wants that seem right or wrong things wrong I mean just from a mental note it seems wrong anyway so right there I'm saying this is not something that I'm hyper interested in the mean as a feed for cattle it seems like it it's fine I was doing some research on it and there's basically it either dry it out and use it that way because it keeps a lot longer or if you live very close to where Distillery is you can feed them they ate the wet product and its fed typically in in areas of like 10 to 20% of the total ration based on dry matter this is according to ks grains and their ddg SF which is dried distillers grain fact sheets and it basically they say the at those levels it doesn't make the meat taste like crap I either can't tell the difference and it can be economical and so basically how much of

shoes is directly tied to whatever the current price of corn is so it's corn prices go up the use of this stuff is going to go up as well because it's we're going to make it anyway the other thing that's useful for in feeding cattle is to prevent or to help prevent acidosis which is a system where we are supposed to eat hugely carbohydrate-rich diet all the time if they do it can throw off their their room in and basically eat eat away the lining of the room and with a pH of their system gets messed up and and then terrible if you can't cure it. Seuss nightmare by Sophie diem this which is lower in carbohydrate can help reduce that apparently now

at one thing I will say about it and again like what this guy is doing this article is is is basically totally removing all of the aroma and flavor which I think is quite interesting if you were going to do something with spent grain it's been distillers grain what you should do is taste it and say hey this has a flavor this has an aroma what the hell with this tastes good in me and that's what you should be doing of course then you'll never soaked up to 8 billion pounds of the stuff or whatever it is that we made from fermenting ethanol and I'm sure that most of the stuff that's made isn't made the same quality as Maker's Mark and so taste like like behind you know what I mean and so if you're dealing with stuff is poorly made then I did not much use for it you know I mean like I mean I'm sure I can find good uses for Maker's Marks grain or any one of the other distillers we like they're their grain but these guys at the totally DDD aromatize it with a bunch of different procedure

weed stocks do to animals traditional feedstock do to animals I turn to William you at who was riding in the mid-1800s in Rogue one of my favorite books of all time and you can get it on the Google Books is called the whole hog and another addition is called the pig I'm using the hog 1865 edition if you go through it he list all of the feedstock super available to feed pigs at the time and any time you had a bunch of this crap leftover one of the things you would do to it is feeding the pigs to make meat out of it and what he says is and certain things obviously are delicious Acorn and what not but he says that the refuse is just an 1865 Edition to refuse to wash and Grains another residue of breweries and distilleries may also be given to swine with advantage and seemed to induce an in Tennessee to lay on to induce a tendency to lay on flesh but you must not do it into larger quantities or unmixed without other more substantial food as although they gain flash rapidly when fed up on this alone the meat is not

Matt never makes good bacon wow so so you aren't in the 18 hundreds and yellow take with a grain of salt but you are apparently was well-known back in the day that if you fatten too much on a spent grains that yes they fattened up but the meat didn't taste as good as it otherwise would so so they're there you have it before I go to break or you want me to go to another break whenever you're ready and limes and oranges I forgot about them for two weeks and cut them to find them extremely sweet I've not been able to replicate this and they would happen if a lime specifically tasted your sweet with no acidity time itself with his that's what he says that the limes and lemons limes and oranges forgot about them for two weeks and then cut into them to find them extremely sweet he doesn't know what happened

I was at the time I am baffled I am baffled citric acid in lemons lemons the Man City and them is citric acid it should not it should not go away it should not volatilize neither should it be broken down the same goes and limes which is a combination of malic acid and citric acid and saxenda kased not in that order those should not break down it's well-known that acidity decreases in apples on storage but I haven't read anything about increasing the availability of air to the inside of fruit on a lemon or a lime causing the acidity to go down now if you happen to be in an area that's growing there are lemons and limes that are sweet but I'm assuming that if you had picked it off of a tree of unknown provenance that you would have said something like I picked this lime and lemon off of the tree of unknown

Providence which case you might have gotten one of the rare and I think insipidness. You didn't like those right to Sweet lines and sweet lemons and they're kind of weak right cuz I didn't have as much power as like an orange has flavor-wise just weird because I killed that my favorite citrus fruits and all the sudden you take away the acid and there weren't so I'm extremely curious I'm going to have to do some research on that and see whether or not I can figure anything I know I have no explanation for it more quick question question so this is from Landon young going to be in New York City in a few weeks restaurant suggestions near LaGuardia and then with the hashtag awaiting second coming of Indy Jesus aren't we all aren't we all really wow what was that near what I have to be honest now there's there's there's there's two kinds of people those people who actually Explorer what what we Manhattan people call someone pejoratively the outer boroughs

and then there are other people I don't I mean like I basically in this is going to sound really it's just because my son does not like getting on subway trains in the weekend but I did not that which is strange considering that he is obsessed with Subways by very very rare lakes with exception of Aaron Jackson Heights it's close to LaGuardia interesting ethnic foods that has been famous for many many many years I just didn't know it was close to LaGuardia seems like

the whole neighborhood you just search that that neighborhood Jackson there is a zillion blog post on that whole neighborhood in every everything everything going on in it and and that the one that Jack has mentioned particularly famous but the Google around there just a few every got there

which one, I don't remember the name but it was really good she like that was the best blueberry muffin that been wrapped 2 weeks ago I ever had in my whole life

good sandwiches Sbarro's

Beyblade again so I can love you twice as much as you each time these ones I wish we were twins by Plex aphonic

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I like that why don't we get the Sunday Sunday Sunday monster truck effects Sunday Sunday Sunday I can do that I love me like I never actually is it true that I can do a monster truck rally I don't feel like I need to because I saw the commercial is growing up so much when I was a kid that like you know that's that's all I needed everything I needed was there and then seeing the truck like crush the other truck on the advertising was I didn't feel like I needed to see it in the real life and you have a new monster truck rally and you guys aren't I mean I was a small kid I remember feeling awesome awesome though and there was two monster trucks in the idea that I've never left your house is that monster trucks they they have giant giant wheels and they roll over other cars and Crush those other cars and so they basically they they they try to race each other over a bunch of car

add a crush to the finish line and they also do things like pull each other and things like that but that I watched on TV super excited and neither truck actually finish the race because both of them either one flipped over in the other wheel fell off like that none of them made it over so it's kind of like one or maybe that's what touched our me to the whole thing when I was a kid I saw a demolition derby they called it which is right always wanted to go to a demolition derby so cool we should know that would be a fundraiser whatever bird is we all got a bunch of cars for like $150 fill the sides with concrete and had a Heritage Radio Harris radio demolition derby I have a 96 Nissan Sentra I'm willing to donate for that event a baller we have a collar by the way I are

this is Mom would has coming from hookah town in Germany so I'm quite so try to get through this I have a two-year-old and four-year-old child so I got an increasingly fussy about food what do you feed your kids you know what this is like it's like it's like your kids learn whatever they can to punish you and it's like you know if you eat everything and try to serve them everything then they will go the exact opposite direction I end up having to I have a couple of a couple of problems with it one is that my cooking time with during the week is limited to roughly 15 to 20 minutes at night and so I have the added problem of it has to be quick I also have that the issue of like flicking the pitch battles that you know that you get into over food but you know if you do so you think they're going to take us delicious

cauliflower because it's not green because for some reason as soon as kids start hanging out with other kids everyone get together and have some sort of powwow about how green vegetables are disgusting so you like okay I'll get you his cauliflower and I'll dump cheese sauce over it which is universally inherently delicious and then yet you get this pitched screaming battle that just impossible to understand so Mike all my kids want to eat is steak hot dogs and hamburgers and say you have to filter that through and which is weird because before my older son Booker was when he was 3 and 4 and Below would eat anything like Fistful of Capers olives having to sneak sneak things and then they end up like me like for some reason maybe they've developed a like for a squid you know initially have to like fudge with a very very much against lying to adults about what's in food and we'll get to that later but with your kids I think it's kind of an obligation to lie to them and then shame them

into you know an end into eating otherwise they're just you know that all they want is you know kasugai gummy candies and and hotdogs hotdogs and hamburgers with my kids ready to go for proteins so they would eat pasta particularly Northgate like 5 days a week if they were allowed so can you can even give anything that's kind of like just not not just white carbohydrates cuz it's actually in Germany that babe they would likely pastor and Brad got them hooked on a special yet or you don't want to get don't want to get him hooked on another white carbohydrates do you guys eat meat or no but but the kids

chicken and mount kind of place it at first they like forest or not game for the texture of the bus cuz it was a long time in the UK really do like I I I get their vegetables into my kids also eat pasta so I usually get the vegetables into that buy a p raise and sausages you know about me because like we didn't want to be just feeding themselves with that's their problem kids are soaked like what we do honestly and show my kids now or 7 and 10 and then the deal is is our current mode and I can't say that any better or any worse as we cook with

are we want for ourselves if they eat it to eat if they don't they don't and which was given no complaining rule anymore of doesn't appear to work but it's just we do we decide to kind of give up on what they want with the exception of two to three days a week will we have a White Castle free meals and I'll make whatever it is that they that they want assuming it's reasonable and then the rest of time like it is what it is I try not to do anything it's going to be overtly going to irritate them and make them angry because that's just pushing things too far but you know and then eventually you fine like the weird stuff that like fart like even though my older son you can beat any vegetables at all for some reason sauerkraut help and sauerkraut league in the world is coming so I know fine hear some sauerkraut and he loves canned sardines good so do I hear have some canned sardines but it's only through just like treating them like they're going to eat everything and is serving them everything that they're going to do I haven't had as much luck unfortunately hiding things in other things as I would unless it's like you know some

they know what it is I squared and they won't eat it until they've eaten that men are like you like squid and I'm like okay I like squid but you know that but broccoli broccoli yeah so what you know basically just take a chicken stock which is another meeting there and then you can stick in it with a roux but it's not necessary and chop up broccoli broccoli including stance chop the stems find her because and I also peel off the very outside of stuff on the bottom Because unless it was very good blender it won't play well just throw all the things into the chicken stock split some to to blend them up I usually throw in some chunks into the in the blender if you're my butter pretty good if it's not yet the pre-great it of me up me as your favorite grating cheese and crack a couple of egg yolks into it to thicken it while it's hot and then toss that into into I usually use a thinner pasta with that because it

I'm really kind of creamy sauce I like passes without that are creamy like a Angel's Hair or something like that and they are or whatever all the other day but also work with Yankee but I know I feel bad that your kids are making you make me happy everyday I mean like the one where you know it's not traditional authentic but you make it a little bit looser than you normally would put in a pastry bag and squeeze the pastry bag over the boiling water and cut it with a knife as it goes into the boiling and then you can have a new year there were there you can increase at least a potato ratio higher than they are you can eat you could do whatever you want me and that was a recipe I got in the 80s from Japan who's that's the way he used to do it and it's got have no fail and much less messy way of making yucky then if you wanted to try and do it rather than a rolling on board and also where they teach you guys to do stars you never did that with a cesare

Lakota I'm sure there's some chicken stock and some broccoli in their in their pasta am I can't actually get the vacuum packs and it's just brilliant cuz it like takes literally 1 and 1/2 minutes to cook and it's ready I also tend to blend a lot of anchovies in two sausages and that's a way to get anchovy in there and and everyone it's a well-known fact that Everyone likes Anchovies and no one thinks they do so I'm going to work in a broccoli sauce as much because you'll notice and morbid and tomato sauce is nothing pops of tomato sauce like some anchovies reduce Tomatoes at blended with anchovies in it

pizza sauce with Anchovies and is freaking delicious it's delicious and you're nobody thinks they like it and if it is never once been rejected when I served it to someone ever ever hey that's awesome by the way I didn't know I sent you a message on Twitter you eat kind of short kind of awful and it's just as fast it's just as fast as I can I put a big hole in the side of a can with a key ciaran I just said to someone else and I'm retired I have a shotgun one in a long time but I guess we'll have to try it have to try and see what happens all righty what thanks for the tip

how are you doing all right yourselves cutting in and I'm trying to hear you tell tell what's going on

I try to make my own homemade fish sauce and it turned out completely. So what did I do wrong and second is it even worth it even try making homemade fish sauces that were delicious the person that I would look at all that I know she's published anything recently is Sally Granger who is making her own Roman-style fish sauce Gaga rooms and I had her homemade fish sauce and it was some of the best fish sauce I've ever had in my life it is going to go through a putrid phase I mean it's going to be did it not did not clarify out to do not have the stuff sink to the bottom and liquid come up pretty much threw up when I opened up the process was that

oh yeah so you waited long enough it should have been okay did you not have enough salt

maybe that's because you know that's the stuff that they sell the anchovy stuff that they sell now and I don't know why the name just went out of my head the Italian product that starts with a C I don't know what the heck's wrong with me today yeah, Tora there you go by that stuff is not like original Guard Regional garbage very much like fish sauce or many many different types depending on how much fish was in it and what type of fish and what part of the fish so and that changed depending on what era in Roman culture you're in Sally Granger who did I think one of the best kind of a piece of translations along with her husband is a scholar this is was working couple years ago probably done now her PhD on Roman fish sauce and she's the one who when I tasted and as she may want it all from

that's the guts of fish which is what they want of the highest levels of time and it was fantastic and no it is definitely that way I might guess is is that if it was extremely putrid smelling on the order of like a surstromming which is the Swedish putrid fish that you just didn't have enough salt because that in fact is house or striving is made you under salt the fish and then let it ferment so I'm going to go ahead and guess that you just didn't have enough salt in the mix

okay that that that that may have been that may fit at the end I Need You Tim Horton to you that the whole fish or should I use only got about all of them all of the make will make a fish sauce it just depends on I mean I think that the enzymes in the gut helped to get it go at the enzymes in bacteria in the gut health to get it going so you know I wouldn't remove them but you know I think either will work and have been use every part has been used in various times in in history all getting a different product I mean I think they like I said that one. The highest and Garland Des garcons was just from the gut but typically the high in Garland was produced in literature from Whole very very fresh whole mackerel that would have been done Bledsoe the blood is still in them and and so then you know they break down quite nicely with the addition of salt into delicious fish sauce and I know it works that I've tasted it

nnn where can I find it in about about what time you can look up her you know the pieces whatever it's called de re coquinaria whatever it is she's at was the person on one of the more recent one to that and she's out of England but I don't know what university she was doing her PhD in but her name is Granger I believe spelled with an i g r a believe it's g r a i n g e r Sally Granger and cheese she is probably is one of the world's great Authorities on that subject cool how you thought it is it's incredibly delicious go buy it now don't wait if you know where you can buy it buy it now it's delicious it's different from the other job famous Japanese fish sausage Siri which comes from a Chicago, which is also delicious and tastes remarkably like the Roman guts only Garner

but it's made from the guts of fish I saw both of those you should run out and buy right now listen hi Dave nastasha Jack and Joe a longtime reader of your blog listen to show are the call numbers now Siri to my brain but I can't call him when you're on and never called you giving oh my gosh my folks giving the email over the air so nastasha what email should I use you want to set up a whole separate email just now okay so give me the email info at Heritage Radio Network. Org answer the question so that you'll forward it to miss tascha so I got to find out where I was so there you go that's a good way to get into the to the record of a follow-up from Andrew Switzer on the M&C says the fruit was store bought and in the following tests to replicate the fluke the zested skin molded

I know someone someone's got to have something on that we'll see okay

my second question somebody tells me is my iPad is acting up my second question is regarding homemade vegan cheese and meltability before nastasha start doing your vegan face I must say that I'm a proud of our but I buy meat from a local Farm have no qualms about the idea of animal captivity or Slaughter if they're both on humanely and have on a day or even eating a hamburger while watching Peter videos that is kind of rough cuz I'm sure those videos are nasty trailer nasty however I've been experimenting with vegetarian and vegan meat and cheese and allows for two reasons one because even though they can be bought entirely upon them they can be with her because even though they can they brought on Charlie on the shelves I feel bad for an opening up a package of Boca Burgers and TZ cheese for non meeting gas during barbecues by the way I concur with that I hate by having to buy store packaged crap for people when they come to my house because it's like yeah you know what I care about these other people not to cook stuff for him but you because you have a dietary restriction you you get crap I'm with you on that

and all and to I like the challenge also the reason I feel like I've gotten soy and gluten bass meat analogs down as as well as I or perhaps anyone possibly can but I'm still having issues with making meltable animal free animal products ricci's I tried a few recipes for Batum in the best one so far was a nut butter flavored nut butter flavor with nutritional yeast and set with agar it did technically melt but needless to say not to my liking I also read the labels of some of the more milk and cheese and allows to find it many brands of soy cheese have casein in them so perhaps if I never get the meltability I'm looking for I was wondering if you had anything to say on the issue other than just give him real cheese and tell him it's me again before you launch into a 10-minute rent well I would never do that I do not believe in lying to Natasha's different esta she will lie yeah I do not believe in lying to people about what's the what's in their food because not because I think it's going to hurt someone really but just because it's just not in me to do it I can't like Stan sit down with them and watch them eat something knowing that I've lied to him it's just it's not

here's the problem with us with it's like that casing is kind of a miracle and that's what it's the protein that forms a gel for cheese and it's what makes cheese melt like cheese it's very difficult to replicate so when they're replicating it what they're typically replicating with now is there using a and you look at all the meltable cheese analogues they usually have you can use high amylose starch high amylose starch will eventually melt out and high amylose starch supposed to normal starch has a form of a kind of rubbery Joe and it says which is similar to a cheese so that's in a lot of cheese analogs but you need to have basically you need to have a structure for the cheese something that will melt an emulsifier and oil in there to make it oily like cheese and none of those things can break wanted wanted to heat it up now one of the new things if you look at a lot of the higher end ones they contain a lot of P Sweet Pea product because pee first of all peace.

Arch is fairly high in amylose and secondly pea proteins have the ability to form a gel that is thermal irreversible I will melt out so if they also makes up there working on gelatin replacers I think with made out of pea protein but both of the Galaxy foods and diet foods with were two fairly highly rated cheese and allows it didn't have any sort of casing and them both contain a whole bunch of pea flower tea products P protein pea flower and they will set up to it to form a gel they also had oil in them an emulsifier so you going to need to add those these are incredibly complicated and if you're going to use my I like pregelatinized starch of these are incredibly complicated and this is a huge Dark Art amongst people who do it and many patents are far along you can leave the patents play it's extremely difficult to get a a really good product this way which is why

people are paid lots and lots of money to try to get it right if you want to see an interesting review go to vegan baking. Net and look at they have a bunch of these different cheese analogs and how well they melt and and you can go look at the ingredients or just basic basically what I did here is a way you can make a somewhat acceptable cheese analog that kind of brain dead just take and make something that taste cheesy to you write using whatever you want whatever flavors you want set it with my brain is for so fry today with low acyl gellan gum okay and set it at a fairly High thickness like a half a percent I think I got to look at it no good light and then blend it and then you have a texture of it that's what's called a fluid gel okay and that fluid gel is going to be heat stable so you can kind of make that fluid gel the texture of kind of cheese at smelt it's not going to be actually like cheese cuz it won't be Dewey but it will actually melt out right to Al

which was sauce this is how Wily are at a lower percentage does Wylie Dufresne does his mayonnaise and his his fried mayonnaise and his fried holidays then after you do that that you heat the mixture again and you add you going to add Kappa carrageenan and locust bean gum as a mix hydrate that then set it into a block slice it it'll melt at roughly a hundred twenty degrees 123 degrees Fahrenheit and should be like cheese it won't have this wretchedness of cheese and I think Jack is shutting me down so if I miss any questions. It's a skirt steak somebody bought smell Define look good but when they cook overwhelming odor of blue cheese which got more potent when they took a bite it was not dry aged

any idea how long do they cook it I don't have that okay here's what happened you cook it it does low temperature cooked or know I bought a Pew a few pounds of skirt steak smelled fine look good but when I cooked it there was an overwhelming odor of Lucchese which got more potent when I took a bite what's going on is not try to catch that's the classic the classic problem of low temp cooking knocking the temperature up fast enough and you're having lactic acid bacteria that are growing before the meat can cook that typically happens in bags when the bags are a sandwich close together in a low temperature bath and it takes more than about two to three hours for the me to get up to temperature or lactic acid bacteria are going to grow and so that is the that's the only explanation I can think of because it's never going to happen cooking on a pan that that's a bacterial phenomenon and it's never going to happen cooking on a pan as far as I know oh by the way

quit on a cream liqueur I said I would look it up and I did that stuff that the person was calling in last week was asking about a Jack Jack Jack told me I don't have enough time to actually go through it so next week I will talk about cream liqueurs and yes propylene glycol monostearate is used in them to help stability so you can go out and buy it I'll talk more about it next week

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get it straight