Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 86: Frothy Lulo

broadcasting live from Roberta's in Bushwick Brooklyn you're listening to Heritage Radio Network. Com

Today's Show is brought to you by Hearst Ranch grass-fed beef available on the internet at Hurst Ranch. Com

Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 12:45 today not with this she is a flying home as we speak or planes being bad about him turbulence over the Atlantic Ocean she took her little sister to Switzerland over the weekend to assembly for 97212 878-497-2128 now tell me when you're ready when you are here but hopefully he'll call us back in a few minutes I said 12:05 cuz I know I was here at 12

Arnold fat lazy out of shape world record for biking from my apartment in the Lower East Side to Bushwick 15 minutes flat

seems like the Studio's impressed that's my main thing it's like you know me my safety important is not engaging the safety of pedestrians around oceans from last week at some trivia questions coming in you can just hear it I can't really check the Twitter during the show but we're at cooking issues that's how you treat us or whatever the hell you call it at Heritage Radio and we can get it Heritage underscore radio that works that happens to make a cheese sauce using melting salt with we'll talk about a minute come out of breath it's because I'm out of shape by the way if you hear like it's me trying to get that use whey protein concentrate don't know we talked about it we've had all three authors write on the show

I'll take in studio but we've had them all to you know whatever most ambitious biggest cookbook undertaking all time I have to say probably all time and kind of Rivals back when you know the Pope used to have someone make the Sistine Chapel it just didn't matter how much it costs or how much time it took that kind of thing only with a cookbook anyway so he has a cheese sauce I think there's several cheese sauce in the modernist cuisine where they are basically using the techniques of processed cheese making to make better tasting iron thing anyway so Roberts and I have sodium citrate and whey protein isolate my understanding is that the whey protein concentrate has the Lactaid sugars and the isolate has a sugar is removed what function does the concentrate have in this recipe and can I substitute

play possibly leave it out other recipes call for Johanna SDS to sodium phosphate what is it where they do when you get accepted

I did a lot of research on processed cheese over the past couple weeks it's a subject I haven't researched in a while but I find extremely interesting by the way my brother-in-law Chef wd-50 loves himself American cheese we were that could you meant loves American cheese and eggs and he's not afraid to admit it I'm not there like letting the cat out of the bag like like I do with this. He will freely admit it and breathing breath okay

the way make a processed cheese if you take cheese and you add would call The Melting salt to them and the melting salt is also called an emulsifying salt and unlike a normal emulsifier which has one part of a molecule that loves fat and another part of the molecule of the molecule that loves water and they're like makes it easier for water and fat to live together and water or Aaron fat except it's not really like that what it is is just one polyphosphates or another and what they do is they actually make it easier for the unbinding caicedo does casein which is the protein in milk solids that causes cheese to bind together to calculate and it basically re solubilize the casing and allows the casing to become an emulsifier so these emulsifying salty smelling salts modify the casing and make it easier for a tweaked Ronnie and spreadable with multiple all that great stuff now

you might be surprised a note that older Cheese's the ones you typically with Tsum don't melt very well actually need the least amount of emulsifying salt in them because their proteins are most broken down it's actually young Cheese's the ones that you think would melt very easily than in fact are very difficult to make a very smooth melted processed cheese out of and that's why you go back Jack do what are you familiar with fondue with the cheese or choice for fondue is I don't agree is it why but where is an aged cheese right so even though it's very high fat and high-fat cheeses melt very easily also is very aged and so the proteins or break it up and down when they would be in a very young cheese and Pence even though it's an aged cheese is melted and makes a fondue

do you know what else that you have to find you know white wine you know why I don't. Because it's the tartrate in from tartaric acid in wine that provides the natural emulsifying salt to make fondue super creamy delicious and say I don't know to most things you say it's all stuff it's going to me anyway but the but what's funny is that actually the Swiss were the first people to have a patent on processed cheese and one of the one of the ideas of why is because they were used to using wine in their famous melted cheese fondue and said they came up with processed cheese first something it's typically blamed on Americans but in fact is a Swiss invention way you can have way to process cheese number of different ways with different reasons depending on how much you add a can have different effects weight

use of the water binder and so it could probably hold water in when you're melting your cheese down it's unclear to me cuz I don't have the recipe in front of me and I know I don't own the modernist cuisine cookbook yes I couldn't look it up but it's probably there as a water binder and also to affect the meltability littlebits added of whey protein tend to increase the meltability of a cheese and more addition to decreasing meltability of cheese and also decrease the flavor because whey protein fairly neutral in taste now ask for that SDS said that is just a different kind of emulsifying salt when you're using sodium citrate was the first one that we used to not be so great for long-term usage and it doesn't promote meltability at some of the phosphate salts do but it's good to have around because it modifies the pH sodium citrate is going to make things it's a buffer but I think we'll make things slightly more acidic whereas some of the phosphates

turn slightly more basic in the pH of the cheese when you're done is a fairly important to the texture usually want to be right around 55.1 my memory serves me on the pH of melted cheese to get him right I'm super interested in processed cheese I saw an article where someone was making something had the flavor of ketchup but the meltability of cheese using a product I tried to use once but had no success with called rennet casein basically completely constructed cheese analog with a different flavor Mama's pantry is trying to get it and when Chris Henderson gets it I'll get it and I'll play around with it but it reminds me of experiment I did years ago trying to make ketchup chocolate which is texture of chocolate flavor of ketchup so with that why don't a commercial break I'll catch my breath and call you push you to set 18497 to 12884

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and welcome back to cooking issues so Jack we're going to do a giveaway today true or false true so our good friends at the Heritage Meat Shop which is at the Essex Street Market in New York City on Essex and Delancey are offering a free pork chop to the first listener that answers the trivia question you posed to them so the last question I'm going to answer from a reader is from Carey camel and carry rights and asking about egg substitutes and cocktail and Cocktails and the first person who can call in with the name of the Colombian fruit that produces a frothy head on the top of a cocktail similar to an egg white without adding any sort of egre other protein-based up when the pork chop call in info at email info at Heritage Radio Network. Org can tweet us at Heritage underscore radio or calling

lots of options when I mailing it hold it for you they're not going to go out of business and are going to go anywhere the next time in New York come get the pork chop all the sudden stopped liking pork chops I don't think so so that means carry if you're listening is that your question is going to be last but callers on the line, you're on the air

hi I'm on a coin from Australia

I'm always wondering if I do it at work I do sous-vide lamb rum and probably one out of 10 come out after I 64 + + 42 + 54 + help me troubleshoot it's really odd all the same muscle the same exact muscle

yes I cleaned and ready for a couple days and then we roll and then and I'm chilling and so when I think of much you normally in low-temperature meats that haven't been over cooked right I typically think of kind of us Ivory pasty kind of a feel similar to so if you'd like it in for those you to have it done a lot of low temperature work it's difficult to describe because you haven't overcooked it and the juice is still there but it just turned to a mass of fibers in your mouth when you chew it and if any of you want to replicate this at home by a filet mignon piece tenderloin and cook it at 54 for for like five hours

and then even though it's still rare it's horrible and it's because it's gone mushy and typically and used what's the maximum time it's spent in there in the bath

iron 40 how big around is the roll

I'll probably one and a half inches so I would cook it at what temperature

60 60 60 so 144 all your Fahrenheit heads so here's what I would say if you're dealing with me to don't have a lot of connective tissue in them typically cooking any longer than the point of doneness is going to reduce the reduce the the amount you're going to like the texture of meat so that's why on a duck breast for instance I only cook a duck breast for 45 minutes because if you cook it for longer it may not adversely affect the texture but sometimes it get some of that mucianus that you have if I'm doing filet I tend not to cook Filet low temp but if I'm going to do fill a low temp I'll cook it for like 45 minutes even though it doesn't technically a new programs out like the sous-vide Dash in the one that polyscience it worked on the right programs for surface pasteurization if you're not worried about the inside.

since you back she roll that you kind of do need to get all the way to the inside of it and kill it is that why you're doing that like the time although you shouldn't need to cook it that long at that high to pasteurize it

quit doing volume at 52 for this is still the same because I would try to decrease the time that I'm doing it. Did you notice that the mushy ones had less kind of connective tissue or less inherent structure in them in the ones that weren't mushy was there any visual difference between them

no really don't pretty identical and I'm not even the size it's like getting really mad when the bigger ones who have the same outcome didn't really really not I'm not a possible that the different cuts of meat have different pH has and that could be affecting it as well like I'm going to start a pork Cuts here we have called PSE pale soften exudative and have dark cutting meat on the other end of the spectrum of their nose pH bactrim and so it could be that you're having slight difference is there that are affecting the water binding ability of the meat and that that could be affecting the texture but I would see if cutting your time down something that's something that's an inch and a half across should not take more than an hour max so see if you cut down to an hour or whether or not your problem goes away and if not we're going to have to look at something like the actual differences between the individual cuts of meat

you know cuz it could be there just right on the edge but I'll please you know if you if you can't I don't know if I like how much it cost to call but if you can't call back please just let me know what happens when where the other because it helps me when I have to suggest things to people in the future just let us know whether or not that helped at all so is it true that in the south of Australia people bike on the sidewalk everywhere

is it true that people in Australia bike on the sidewalks I was told this by someone on the Twitter because I was biking on the sidewalk in constant danger of getting mowed down by people on the sidewalk I'm glad to see that there must be a ride on the roads roads. It goes pretty horrible oh yeah yeah yeah

they still have a show I need to make it to Australia sometime not to rant about that but they have some of the great produce I'm especially interested I know it's not a Australian but I'm interested in the New Zealand's Department orange you know they miss healing grapefruit the Portland orange the word it has to be really really fresh which is maybe why it's not shipped out here and Australia is huge so just because you know which one is alone doesn't mean it's close to you but you not going to have to import problems that we do so you should try to get ahold of the Fantastic Citrus about to eat and for you some cocktails only had it once or twice but delicious

I'll look it up thanks very much

I think we have another caller and yeah we also before we get to that call or we have a William McGee fruit is Nara Angela fruit we look it up it's not the one I was thinking I might have to give it to him if I'll look it up during that went off during the next commercial break and then we'll see whether or not that that's what she's not the one I had in mind but it may call our you're on the air

play this is Johnny chart for Memphis Tennessee hey Dave how you doing how you doing down the back on and taking the sides off with the belly attached and I have some questions about cooking channel time and temperature wise and I wanted a nice crispy skin oh yeah alright here you go so first of all how you have a good problem how to cook a delicious product right by the way Memphis one of those towns I have not been to can you freaking believe that

oh my God I know it's ridiculous to one of the great it's one of the great obviously one of the great barbecue towns in the country and grey for so many other things music it's just it's all right to complete travesty that I haven't made it there yet but I will someday make it there now here's the issue with a suckling pig as opposed to a larger Pig with a full size hog I'm going to I'm going to go out here and hopefully I don't anger anyone but in general for hogs for whole Hogs doesn't apply to suckling pigs I don't think it's necessarily possible to do the best job cooking thing whole here's why not every muscle in a hog wants to cook the same way you know what I mean so so I don't know his name popped out of my head but the famous Whole Hog guy at Mitchell at Edmonton right at Ed Mitchell he likes the whole hog when he does it well he'll do is say he'll like machete the whole hog up after he's done

better country skin and the fact that certain pieces of muscle or kind of pasty in overcooked specifically the muscles without connective tissue like the lawn it doesn't matter so much because that's covered up by the sauce and its mass by the fact that there's all kinds of cuts in there that are good after they've been cooked for for a long. Of time but that said a suckling pigs a little bit different because it doesn't require as long as cooking time as a whole hog does because nothing in a suckling pig takes as long to break down as something in a whole hog so it's possible I think to get something that's pretty delicious all the way through without having to break it down and also there's more fat and stuff even in the areas that are kind of low connective tissue in the younger and younger is kind of distributed better cuz it makes sense or no front legs off and left a lawyer

Elliott Ashton I was going to roll it up so it's just one muscle Des Moines that were talking about wrapped up and brt stop the bellies attached to the

okay good to look up the line at like I would do so I would do low temp like sous-vide I would cook that loin for app to go load depends on your on your on your on your ear guess / customers whatever but I tend to go there people out there cooking for as low as 57 but that's rare pink will take looking and you're going to have some people that a balk you don't I mean as long as you don't cook it too long very very few the fewer people will balk at at 62. I'm saying and it's still good you might want to attend to do a lot of my pork at 60 just because it's actually still slightly pink but what happens is when you do the finishing cook on it especially if you pull it from hot and do the finishing on the outside

suggest be a little bit Rosie in the very center and people are okay with that typically but and so on I-10 to let it cool off quite a bit without on bagging it or taking out of fat around cooking it in so that I can get a really long crisping time on the skin because I like to get the skin super super crispy and crunchy and I like to take a little bit of time doing it because the especially with a torch unless you have a really good torture but I mean one that doesn't have any on combustion gas hitting it there so much fat on the skin of a piece of the pork that it can pick up some of that torch taste and it's also difficult to not get Scorch marks on it with a porch if you have to use a torch to touch up pieces of the skin afterwards it's going to ruin your chinois but I recommend firing at work or if you have a piece of stainless steel mesh fire at your torch at the stainless steel

Smash and use that almost as a as a heating grow because of that like this the red hot mesh will combust the rest of the nasty gas taste that you would ordinarily get out of a propane torch alternatively if you have a butane torch in a source of gas in it that doesn't have a lot of those you know those that the mercaptans that they add to it to make it smell terrible so that you know if you have a leak like some of the tobacco Brands don't have a lot of taste to them and then you don't have to worry about it so much but I really prefer deep frying and or like a shallow oil pan fry rendering of the skin just cuz it doesn't really good job and I penetrates are all the way through if you need to render out some of the fat I would do some of how do I don't think you will I would do modernist cuisine strict they do with the duck breast which is they buy a new dog brush their kind of the bristles and they hit it with the bristles to a kind of allowed at fat render out but

Runners I'm taking some of this Kim and I are soup they did it for 6 hours at 1:40. I'm trying to think so you want to talk like a chicharron or you want to still have a lot of bite to it so typically when I do all I want. I don't like I cook the hell out of them actually like if you wanted to. It's like in a package at store is you need to render all of the collagen into gelatin all of it and I typically do that by boiling an insult

water for killing it very salty water for like 60 Minutes 70 minutes of like that until it's it's a shot in completely shot and then I drain it and let it cool because one that got your hands and two it's very very fragile until it cools down when it cools down the gel it was going to start to set up a little bit then I went and then I put in the fridge flat and when it's cold then it's got more structure to it then I scrape it dehydrated and fry it and it puffs up huge and if you wanted to not pop up quite as much you don't scrape it as much as I'd be really interested to know what the texture difference is between cooking at 1:40 and cooking it the way I normally do which is you know it at Boiling very interested know what the textural difference is because

my feeling is you're going to get your not going to rent it out all day the collagen and so it's going to hold together a little bit what happens in a pork rind is you dehydrated just still turns kind of flexi plastic like a Shrinky Dink it from when I was a kid to dehydrate it totally depends on the dehydrator but I really honestly just do it bye bye eye and it should it should feel it goes from being a piece of skin to all the sudden looking like a piece of plastic and I would just keep like test frying little pieces and once you see it one time you'll know what's right and at the best way I honestly depends on how humid it is but you know where you are but what I'll do is dehydrated about 80% of the way and then pull it out and let it sit overnight and sometimes it'll take itself all the rest of the way it's very very hard to get it rehydrated if you

over dehydrated it so that you really want to guard against over dehydrating cuz tempering it back to the proper moisture content is just at the bear you know what I'm saying so just keep looking at 12 temperature I started at 1:35 I'm sorry I was at 1:35 I'll let it go for I'll get Let It Go for a couple of hours I'll look at it and then what you can do overnight if you have it you just turn it down to its lowest setting and then let it ride it shouldn't over dehydrate overnight on the lowest possible setting which is I believe 95 on the Excalibur but it's better that you can always pulse dehydrate to get more of the stuff out and once it's partially dehydrated it's not going to spoil on you so you don't need to worry about spoilage you want to say

what's going to happen is when you fry a test piece it's going to have like a little like a colonel on the inside that's not going to puff up okay when you if you over dehydrate it'll burn and just not pop up as much because there's not enough water to expand it anymore so you know what what I usually do is I don't let it dehydrate if I'm going to go to bed I don't let if you hydrate when I'm not there because I don't want to over dehydrate but as long as you started the dehydration process you've reduce the water content of it enough that you're not going to get microbial spoilage in it overnight so you don't need to worry about it and then you know the next day if it if you know it hasn't kind of tempered out and become even all the way through if you fry a piece in the morning then you can just dehydrated for another hour or so and usually that's enough to to get it in the right in the right State the real

like I said it's just a guard against over dehydrating

okay I appreciate you hate tells how it works out I will thank you to yes so William McGee followed up and said maybe the correct name is lulo lulo ding ding ding ding ding ding ding dongs yes we will give the two pork chops away there you go to winners on the board shop so I can now go back and answer a carry camels question before the end of the show because we have two correct answers and I take a very quick break before that

the following is a message from the Heritage Meat Shop are you tired of just hearing buzzwords do you want to actually take part in the food Revolution then come on down to the Heritage Meat Shop located in New York's is stork Essex Street Market on the corner of Essex and Delancey we have Rare Breed pork beef poultry lamb and goat not to mention charcuterie that'll make you squeal all raised right by the right people so you know they taste right try the meat that over a hundred York Chef sake for come to the Heritage Meat shop and pick up some Revolution today for more information visit Heritage Meat

welcome back. Okay so ask you before I go into Kerri Campbell question at selling apropos of the of the pork we had a Twitter question in that from Ryan Rogers saying does removing the membrane from ribs prior to smoking or sous vide should you remove the membrane either before or after we're talking about is on the bone side of ribs there's a kind of a membrane you don't talk about Jack that membrane that the kind of like you and sleep yet the same one fairly certain well did you like that member I actually happen to like it I don't mind if I'm a bad person because both of us were bad people because all the people who know what that that would have to remove it for textual reasons cuz most people don't like it I would remove it beforehand I haven't had that much experience with leaving it on but versus not

turn the side by side by everyone who removes it say they remove it to get better penetration of rubs and or spice I'm assuming that if you're going to add smoked that it's better to take it off earlier cuz you going to get better penetration through it then if you didn't tell me the flavors and things like that fairly easy to strip off strips off the same way that the membrane strips off of a skirt steak so I would say remove it before head beforehand the other question was I should you do I'm assuming you mean low temperature should I do a Boston butt boneless or bone-in low temperature I would say take the bone out it's a here's why as much as everyone I love knowing things off of the bone the bone is really helpful as a protectant when you're cooking normally but I don't think it's going to be like an older talk to me anyway and in terms of presentation and slice ability you going to want to get that thing out of there so you can roll it it's also going to take less long to cook you're going to get more accurate temperature in the center

if you are vacuum bagging it you're not going to pull any of the weird blood things out of the bone if you pull the bone out give you a chance to trim some of the cartilage things away so I would definitely take the bone out. That's just that's just my feeling okay we'll take some cocktail questions will do do Carey's first because she's a woman

just Campbell get Carey camel camel carry first name Carrie Carrie Carrie. Way to use in a Pisco Sour type drink rgm will not allow egg whites behind the bar but I am looking for something to give a drink a similar mouth feeling phone gum syrup maybe can I make syrup with egg white powder thanks PSD mind sharing a recipe for the coriander syrup hear the rest of the coriander seared that we use the bar take a hundred and fifty grams of fresh coriander seed put it into a liter of water Blended in a blender and one kilo of sugar bring it to the boil toss in a bunch of crushed red pepper stir and keep tasting it at Matunuck Oyster and keep tasting it until the spice picks up to level you want you need a bit of spiciness in the back end of that thing to have it work correctly when we use it somewhere like a ginger ale then

I would put a fine of course you out of course trainer inside of a fine siwa and dump it through that the question why will catch most of the stuff in the fine will she want will catch the rest and allow you to spend it one time let it cool and you're good to go okay so anyway what can you use well you can make a drink to do in a Pisco Pisco style drink might be really interesting with lulo lulo the South America and I think of it as a Colombian fruit and they use the juice of it constantly and it makes an amazing kind of creamy head on the top of my head on a just from the hydrocolloid there naturally in the Lulu so you could look for fruits that naturally want to foam up when you're doing us our style drink is also a sick so it would be all so it's kind of a cool green color green or yellow Penny but you cannot it's really it's really interesting so you could do something like that if you want to use Pap me powdered egg white unfortunately doesn't taste so good I've done side by side

lights with pasteurized egg white powdered egg white my my pasteurized egg white and and regular egg white with Ken tokoto from Tiger Club years ago in a fresh egg whites better if your GM would let you use pasteurized egg whites in the box there they're not as good but they're not mean whatever I don't even know if there's any chance I can only use that you can pass your eyes your own egg whites in immersion circulator or you can use gum syrup it's going to add some of the body to it I would I would do is make a call up t i c gums and they have a bunch of the kind of really high quality foaming agents that you can use that they are and if you call t i c gums and tell them what your problem is they have a product for you are the one that we used to have used for making kind of creamy heads on things called ticaloid 3:10 or 2 10s and it's basically Gum arabic with a little bit of xanthan gum in it and if you want to increase the the phone

he had nature of it even more you could dope it with a little more to Santa and you just don't want to add too much Santan because it can a kind of a snotty slippery mouth feel to it the commercial fake egg white summer I looked at one of the ingredients of for it and it's got an emulsifier polysorbate 80 Brothers potassium sorbate and some sodium benzoate but it listens main ingredient as propylene glycol which is an antifreeze it's hardly it's it's it's used as food grade but it's no it's not like Fantastical I don't love it but I think they probably meant is propylene glycol alginate which is which is a kind of a modified alginate that is used as a as a beer head agent in beer and it's not natural but it's it's neutral and it is it a foaming agent to increase the stability in the head of beers if you shake it's going to stabilize the bubbles that are formed and you could do something like that but it's kind of horrible I would

just get the pure propylene glycol alginate doesn't have any kind of weird flavorings or anything in it but it's going to be used in large amounts going to probably have a slippery kind of a feel to it I don't know that you're going to enjoy that so much that makes sense.

Is res it does how does weight from Mike there at that time okay now in from Hayden Lambert on how do I remove the color from homemade tonic water has to be super low-tech well when I make tonic water it doesn't have any color because I don't use the bark you know that it would I forgot to get the name of the tree wrong it's like king shawnn or something like that use the bark of the tree I use quinine sulfate USP which I get from a chemical house which is what you know what the big folks use to make tonic water with quinine sulfate it's easier to Dos but it is expensive and if you want to make it from Berkeley to make some barking it's going to be it's going to be kind of colored and probably cloudy now you're not going to get rid of the color through any normal filtration technique like a coffee filter what not but you should definitely put it all through a coffee filter so that when you carbonate it you're not going to have a lot of crud floating around with you

stop your ability to carbonate well if you want to remove color the only thing I know that strips color out that's really low Tech and charcoal filter but it's it's going to have to have multiple activated charcoal at the bridge but it's going to take a long time and be aware that the activated charcoal won't just be stripping color are lost B stripping flavor so I don't know what the Affinity of activated charcoal is to quinine or to the other flavors in her in there so it's unclear to me what will happen but I know there are some people out there who actually filter their bitter through Brita has to kind of clear them up a little bit but I mean it's going to have a radical effect on Flavor in fact there was a there was a company number of years ago and their main there whether they're only product was it was some take on on Grey Goose but I forget what it was was it was a charcoal filter so that you can go buy the like the world's cheapest crappiest vodka and filter it through

this thing like like four five six times and turn it into an actually not unpleasant nutrl vodka and had a picture of a guy with a fur hat on with waste out of his mind and so someone gave it to her to me at the French culinary years ago and was like an Exelon and he he said hey you know you know would you ever like I was like no I can't I can't Advocate taking a cheap vodka boring it through a filter and and then drinking it so that like frat kids can get crunked up for cheap minutes is not what I do for a living do you know did you know but it's not like kind of snot my stick you know what I'm saying but that said we used it all the time to take cheap liquor and kind of kill it so that we could use it and test at the school without having to spend out for expensive vodka we're doing a fusion work so it definitely does strip flavors out and we used to put bourbon through it to see what would happen and it's strips not all of the color but some

the color and in fact and filtration strips of color out of a drums when they turn it back to white again I mean I was never I mean in vodka like taking away that that hospital swab is a good thing but in most other situations you know it's not necessarily not necessarily the best rights in this isn't to listen to stop at home and I'm trying to create a mix it will serve as a base for things like patties and meatballs I like the flavor moisture level of the garbanzo lentil onion crimini dried porcini roast eggplant pearl barley mix Jesus that's quite a mix-up I got that out in one breath only because I did it later in the show when I cut my breath race yeah but it lacks the elastic resistance of denatured meet I thought soy flour might help it nope I would also like to

put a vegan meatball that doesn't dissolve in marinara any thoughts Marty in Eagle Rock poke here's what I would do in order to get like an elastic situation you're going to need a gel that's going to bind together I know you tried soy protein powder but what you might not have tried is getting proteins for instant if you want to go vegan you can't use casein but you could use soy if you could go to some meow like a temporary one of those things that everyone uses their texturized vegetable protein but might be able to get to get some soy and then add some transglutaminase to it and it works on soy protein to firm up things like tofu and so you might be able to get bonding between soy protein in a Patty and so if you want to go vegan you have to get a transmitir mandates that doesn't have any casein added to it or gelatin and so you're going to have to use a transcript hamonaiz Activa which is made by ajinomoto TI a TI is the enzyme only

Malto dextrin it doesn't have any casing and doesn't have any gelatin it's a vegan product and that one if you mix it in a slurry with with a soy protein versus whey protein wanted solubilized should bond to itself over the course of about 4 hours so you would say you would make the patties you would set them in the fridge for 4 to 4 hours overnight is even better and they should firm up a lot more and then not break apart when you cook them red dressing like a good idea to me it seems like it would work and you know that you don't have to use any sort of awful in a fake meat crab which you know most of those things are horrible yeah I didn't get to answer all the questions

on the show I'd say ET from Reed College name something interesting about Reed College Portland have the world's only nuclear reactor run entirely by undergraduates

wow it's like simultaneously I'm like oh my God I wish I went that awesome and then I'm like holy crap have a nuclear reactor run by undergraduate like you know Portland like the more you learn about Portland the cooler it is except for they don't people only bite they don't walk is what I like about New York City it's a walking City I can see the buy bike but I also like to walk around anyway ET answer from an alumna alumnus of read answer the question we had weeks ago on horchata next week I'll read ETS answer I will talk about eels and tobacco and seiji Yamamoto and how he uses a compressed air gun to do Tikka GMA on eels probably after me to give me post goes up next week on the blog a couple of the questions I didn't get to where we didn't get to you but you we haven't forgotten you will get them next week this has been cooking issues

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