Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 78: Maxime Bilet

you're listening to the Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live to the cosmos from the backyard at Roberta's in Bushwick Brooklyn

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supposed to be

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cooking issues is a day model Euro to pick me she's coming to you live from Roberto's Pizzeria on the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245 going to be joined today in the studio with Maxine Bill a co-author of modernist cuisine cookbook also she just hanging out but she's welcome to chime in anytime she wants you to put on this one's for you and as usual for the cooking issues maschine my right yeah Maxine I'm doing well

babies to today's then move to what anyone who is hanging around in New York and I guess the late 90s early 2000s Jack's oyster bar right fantastic place that you work there I did I did I actually went to Jack the great surprise of stars are directly from Ice the chef left about two weeks later and Jack lamb crazy as he is gave me that this is quite transitions for yeah I was I was there when it was still the little carriage house and then moved to the old makimono space you know the Heston blumenthal's famous joint right and dude and you were on the restaurant side of the development center

calling all of the research in the in the in a great dishes that that has sandwich with that adjusts it creates a Nathan myhrvold to be a part of the modernist cuisine dream team and so you know the three office on the book of course Nathan has been on the show before Nathan myhrvold Chris Young good friend of ours been on the show before and Maxie the first time on the shovel welcome it's so nice to be here thanks for having me welcome to on strange meets the true or false true true questions into 718-497-2128 at 718-497-2128. I loved it that. Oh my God you were right that the basil cocktail that you can delicious so fragrance

we just lost by the way best new bar Time Out New York to Maison Premiere but it's good to lose to such a great bar Maison premiere of liquid nitrogen what happens if it's frozen that that that deeply liquid nitrogen there's no sort of enzymatic degradation of the herb at all and we can shatter into super super fine particles even just using a hand muddler then add liquor directly that prevents the enzymes because of enzymes can't really working it's not with you the beautiful extraction prevents break down by enzymes and it shake it like a normal Daiquiri from there or not but I like it's going to color is beautiful but that but that just the aroma is it just you and I hate to do this to you because everyone always asks Everett you know this is a question I have to ask you if I don't ask you something to get upset if I element what's what's next on your plate

it's been the bookstore it's been an incredible journey you know just sharing teaching you know every different technique and and and all the Aesthetics that we that we went into creating morning's cuz I were able to share on so many levels it's just so much information Ever Ever by having his book toy where you able to sort of unravel its and in and look at the different aspects that went into that it's making but going forward we've had many propositions and we're not totally clear exactly what what the the next phase is when we have a little project in the in the works that will come out soon that's good kind of exciting but that's just that's that might give you a teaser on that one then I didn't give you an intellectual Ventures

thanks for making me curious now and not giving me anything maybe maybe maybe by the way and don't know what modernist cuisine is it is probably the single kind of greatest cookbook publishing phenomenon of all times but probably I would have to say that's very flattering is the only book on Roman Caprice not that it's a great book right now we have a huge huge output cookbooks and food related books and yet nothing that has ever been attempted much less successfully produced on this scale it's amazing I mean even though I guess the Amazon price is what about 450 now

but as Nathan van pointing out a lot of paper in that book out of paper and very good investment for you know the amount of information you're getting many people if you if you think about it it's $5 you break it down it's in the amount of work that went into it I think it's you know as a young Chef as a as a as a passion for you whatever you want to call you know yourself it's I think it's a very good investment for your your future creative culinary Adventures that's less than half the price per book of the available ebooks worst it's just me if you're going to compare you would have said that the reference what do you think about it he's rich man is very well you got very well for himself and he's worked hard for this

this is kind of one of the Christian to hear is it at 8 just because he has a lot of money he's never going to make it money back but in fact the book is good enough it's making the right back on the edge of profitable in that it was never the intention but you know I mean we thought we would sell mm carbines maybe and now we're almost at thirty thousand copies in at that price point yeah we were recuperating the you know the investment that was made and that's that's amazing actually going to be a profitable book I think is the greatest sign of success in terms of kind of the impact it's going to make in the world the fact that something can be at that cost can have that much money dumped into its production will never divulge what the actual number is but we know it's a lot because at minimum you had met bare minimum you had at least 15 in a very very qualified people working full-time for how many years plus been a lot more for 3 and 1/2

and then and then a lot more than the 15 for a big chunk of that time for the the final year push when we really have to get everything together it was almost 40 weeks to living out there Ghost Riders in the copy editors and there was a massive team of experts and you know it and what they did and so the for something of that magnitude to be able to break even just a thing goes to show kind of how write the time was for this information you need for the book and also when people talk about the book they don't talk about that aspect out of school and I'm glad you bring that up cuz it was it was in terms of timing and and people being the open to what this means you know that that that that merging of Art and Science which is a beautiful thing and it's something that that you know a lot of classic traditionalist no one wanting to sit at the same time

when you embrace it you realize that that each each really enhances the other and it's it's it's such a clean beautiful relationship. It's yeah it was Prime for that and people are responding that way and so that's it that's a testament to the progress you've made with with with looking at the different roles of food and something else on this show about it before I'm not sure I can't remember if you haven't seen the book at all what are the interesting things about it is and this is like I hadn't expected before I was able to see it is kind of person was it's not it's not it's not an Encyclopedia Britannica if I have a cold textbook by no means a lot of personal feelings personal out of prison last night we have a question on the book someone who read actually from zymurgy the Block I guess I had a question regarding

what's a recipe in the book and I'll read it even though it's addressed to me since you're going to go out more about it than I do desirable results are you going to troubleshoot this the second time I received a new batch of a Activa YG. By the way if that's meat meat glue it's actually like a protein Bond or YG is the one that's made for dairy and protein stuff made the recipe and split the batch into and then used it before you go on one you describe the recipe for so people know where to buy food and as part of our Visa chica plush we wanted to have a a modernist special components

and so that was the basis for creating the recipe and it's it's a combination of Ethics cream to the apps I have to look at the recipe for the me to to be fully aware it's a dairy-based space shuttle where we were using the bonding properties of ICU YG we also use an additional elements of protein that we have you been in there and what you created these very fluffy little dumplings that after being set with that ends metal process then nicely toasted in brown butter and served as a garnish for this for this in a very anxious at 72r Beef cheek a protein's I guess it why proteins and also the very first

they're actually there never actually posted of them after they want one stanza many presidents has begun we serve them into to The Experts the maker into ice water and you get this nice little dumpling by two to really to the first time that red management dissolved into the Ice Water the second time we see the new batch of they Activa y g made them and put the batch in to use 1/4 The Bachelorette directly with the same results let the other have set in the fridge for 24-hours taking that need the time to set up that was also not the answer by the way protein shell made with Activa one set if it's broken is broken to the Brooklyn Bridge new job as pointed out that was not the answer because that won't work if the last quarter into the freezer another failure I am not sure if you know the formulation or not but anything that you could add would be helpful

gelatine water sour cream ricotta whey protein isolate watch others gelatin are 2 ounces of protein a the cold water then sets the gelatin and then the gelatin cross-linked by the way they suck and I would bet that they're not I would bet that you're not there not waiting long enough for the gelatin to to get syrupy that's right that's it that's a very good point when you're when you have your base mixture letting the judge in hydrates you know at least I mean doing that over an ice water bath until I get that that syrupy consistency and then and then setting it directly into the ice water is is one of the tricks for me like one of the great meat glue applications involving gelatin is my brother-in-law Wylie dufresne's veg noodles in like he had sex two and a lot of people have trouble duplicating that recipe and I think 99% of the time it's because they're not getting laid

gelatin hydration in one of the interesting things about a lot of these a lot of these techniques is they really do require as sometimes it is helpful to see people do at 3 because there's a lot of Eye Care the hand in it I know that you know why they also used to do a very kind of a well-known in w58 would take keratin cardamom and then he would freeze it and dip it in a mixture of Kappa carrageenan locust bean gum to make his egg yolk with the with the with the big white coconut when having a book really the truth is it's actually very difficult recipe if you've never done it before it takes a lot of practice to

you get those egg yolks to work properly and when your first doing it you'll get like one in eight to work you know what I mean. So and then by the time you know you've been doing service every day for a month you lose one and twenty do you know what I mean but but there was always like the one cook in the kitchen who their job was to do all 60 of those everyday get them play to get them away and you know they had the Magic Touch but I really come from practice a lot easier if you want to wait that's the only one that's having too much we were going to go to commercial break be right back with Maxine Bellator new shoes

Booker T & the mg's nice coming back with cooking issues next symbol a caller you are on the air

yeah I did think I don't know how relevant my question is to your mom and the basically call for like chicken broth or some milk substitute mashed potatoes was wondering if you had any alternative how long do you have from now

how long do you how long do you have to get the recipe together from today

Friday night I would go for like an emotion I would do like a good vegetable I mean if you really were the criminals you have to have some vegetable egg foo young vegetable oil base chemistry with starts you would use I mean you're going to do me you can almost get like a mixture of gum arabic in Santan like the tickle the way that we use and you could do like a like a like a very heavy oil-water Emulsion that'll hold as it dilutes or as it's mixed with a solid and you can get some of that you'll get some of that cream and so you can just choose a delicious oil I wonder if you could do a slurry of the like a potato flakes hydrate than just a little bit though and then blend in the day like a vegetable oil and make that your your your fat face so if you don't primosa fight that it might break it if you could depend on the ratio if you're doing like the whole view show more like very very high

unctuousness I mean you know even fifteen 20% fat I think the amount of starch that you already have in the potato will act as the as in pretty good emulsifier for for a vegetable oil base and he tried just a vegetable oil-based I really haven't even played around with that much I just kind of started looking into it right now like we said and just make mashed potatoes and beat some put oil into an amine my next step would be to move into my next step will be to move into something like I could take a look at xanthan gum arabic next free and completely like what about eggs be combined with like an egg yoke Eliminator

old school like you almost like super thick like it's just going to add some of the emulsifiers that you would not be busy than making mayonnaise and folding it ain't exactly that wait wait till the potatoes do you have a circulator know if she is still at seven a dollar digital thermometer you check the temperature of your potatoes right when you and your before you want to serve them and you fold that in to give it that you know that you just at that without folding technique

season of Oz you know keep them they are in one potato two potato based you fold it in with the right ratio that something but you just keep on adding in just to get the right mouth filled and you eat a pecan tasting for that another cool thing that we love to do for its increase the potato flavor as well if using oil that's a great meeting for that you can take the skins from the potatoes that have been the potato peels obviously that you've you've exactly and fry them in oil before hands that you're going to use for your mayonnaise have a beautiful deep nutty flavor and then strain that cool that down making mayonnaise like that and then you have a really intense tea-flavored and creamy mashed potato cool kind of frying on the lake in Golden you don't want to burn them

going to get any better flavors but just extracting

good luck let us know how it works out if you actually had a question and large sheets and also one of the things I'm trying to use inside

are you familiar with

it is so silk screening or is it

I'm not sure

I guess so I'm taking food and finding them using different designs menu diet and where the fabric is pulled tight it was just the dying and then it would be different cooking methods like a sheet of pushing me finding it very carefully and bunching it and then soaking it in a text so that they are too close to the afternoon show some of it comes out

looking for an edible threads that is fine enough to do that sort of work. Which I'm going to delegate is fish but it still edible

how strong are scallion scallions comes to mind is the classic threat lightly blanched mean that's the classic you know a thing like that that that works and I'm sure there's others like maybe a really good rap rehydrated tapioca starch you make a leather

maybe a little bit of oil so that the wave breaks down in your mouth and more easily and I think that I think that might be your application you need something waterproof right which means that you're dealing with that right there is a problem now you're you're basically down to long long scale pant plant fibers gluten base actually I buy fresh pasta in Rich with Wiz about depending on the flyer using 5 to 7% of vital wheat gluten and Blurred Lines with a gun and you can get it Saturday if you know that elastic thread that would be in a very workable but also break down as you chew variously

with our own to make it even tougher and that is that we've done that for the for buckwheat because there was to be had the protein content but we didn't have enough of the start you so

collagen thread collagen on the outside doesn't break down as nicely as like intestine for instance an amazing yeah I like long like carefully cut pieces of the sausage casing here's my one recommended recommendation the only time I've ever had any clue providing off flavor in a dish that I've done was when I glued a glued many many layers of different colored fish together and then vacuum them together in the vacuum bag and then I had a procedure

this is the second time I did it I use a much less amount of meat glue and vacuumed it and then before like right after I crush it into shape do I cut the bag open and then it could air out in the fridge run across like you're doing for this evening or along the grain to kind of device for the matter how you do it unless you were literally cutting unless you're literally cutting in a big piece and then preserving the city along the cut which is possible like I've been we've done to innocent who is delicious but you going to be tough getting big piece of that stuff you could you could you can't hit somebody in the face with it won't break

then you might know if you give it your not sure I would actually do it Brian but if you were to do like a three and a half south of the percentage you notes it's a water 2% sugar brine thought you may be able to get a little bit more elasticity and and I think structure parfrey's it don't freeze it all the way in spaghetti parfrey's throw it on the very high quality meat slicer and go directly in between sheets of wax paper and then keep them almost Frozen until you're about to use them because once this thing still out good night to do is is because the Wii with me when I was doing it I would take that you know fairly stiff not fully Frozen sheets I would layer them and then as soon as the salt and sugar from The Cure hits

play melt out and then you have a blocked but then you don't lift him again that's it you're going to be in there if they're done seeing a video I have a video on cooking issues on the Block I think are linked to from a Starships video I did wear I did Michael McDonald which is the Japanese metal working kind of you know and you can see the time in practice like thin sheets of fish glue together not what you want to do but might give you some visual pointers on how to handle the products how your ear biscuit all comes together this is send it to me some photos and documents I will definitely send you guys some time

let's do some emails like like all right I probably won't get to all the email questions anything that I miss this week I will try to get next week Michael rights in about nutmeg here's a question I recently ordered a set of food grade essential oils from I'll tell you if it's Mandy aftel do you work with her for a while and then that's out of San Francisco or thereabouts Bay Area and she has a lot of interesting stuff she has a line in Williams-Sonoma now that just launched but haven't seen it cuz I haven't been to Williams Nolin Lake how long is that forbidden to buy kitchen equipment people by the way like literally if I brought another anything cuz yeah yeah yeah

make essential oil should be clear on this rotovap does distillation but not the steam distillation that is what happens when you're making essential astute kind of a different piece of equipment I don't do the steam distillation because I don't have a rig for it anyway you guys have the ball Road about you have a bunch of jealousy alright okay so what are the items in my set is nutmeg essential oil icing remember from Reading soul on Ice book horrible side effects so now I'm a little scared to use this stuff is there a chance that the hallucinogens concentrated or conversely a reason to believe it was left behind left behind other one was not in the oil to make sure it's completely safe okay look the compound there's a several possible psychoactive compound in nutmeg one of them is Marissa to send is there a kind of famous One parsley seed oil has a lot of it and if you go to Arrow

good witches like the place we're kind of thinking druggies go to put down their kind of mental thoughts on this is where where I go most of those people aren't using nutmeg they're using parsley seed oil which has a high concentration of this and various cat capsules listen that compound muricin is is aromatic and it's actually characteristic of nutmeg so there is no way that you making a dish that you enjoy the taste of are going to get poisoned typically to get hallucinatory effect out of it that people will do things like great a whole nutmeg or two and then I kind of like somehow choke it down and described as the most vile thing that they've ever done in their lives and then like three you know hours later they start feeling some sort of psychoactive effects this is something that you would accidentally do

you know I mean could you take that oil packing into gel caps pounded and do yourself harm you can search you know what psychoactive substances are kind of that you know the thing with them is if they're there are certain psychoactive substances that that the danger level is fairly close to the psychoactive level and I think nutmeg is closer than many in that kind of Spectrum which is kind of where the bad kind of rep comes from because you know if you eat one grated nutmeg your you know you won't die but if you'd like three like I might be renal failure or something like that so it's like an order of three is not a safety level that most drug use would be happy with denial between activity and death like it's not a happy number like an order of magnitude is a more friendly kind of the number but I still worry about

like what I'm saying is don't worry about you a little grating here and they're also apparently up and again from Erowid the stuff degrades over time similar to fujian which we can talk about in a minute and it'll work so if you use nutmeg it sold its lost some of its principal so you know even if you somehow our able to you know choke down you know that jar of McCormick ground nutmeg that's in your grocery store we had to go on a vacation in Lansdowne PA long time listener first-time a centrifuge good I'm glad to hear that that's one of all of our favorite things look like in 15 years many more high quality restaurants are going to have

energy users and people won't think that that you're a freak Show when you suggest they go get one soon as it's coming to home to this is the next curious about it yesterday so let's see by the way before we get this question yesterday was the ICP I didn't go to head up a bunch of ants had to do but lately I don't think you've ceremony last year modernist cuisine was about to come out and I co-hosted with Chris Young You know what was one of the other authors and I was telling him joking that next year if you don't win every damned book award you know it's going to be a travesty and in fact you guys want free invite like a future invention number in a bit it was they were very gracious and we were very very honored to be Steve is worth a different book

okay in the cookie world that is okay especially a professional book and or one that purports to have amazing photographs cuz I might have an issue I thought strawberries in the blender at a to grams per cup to grams of a picnic Ultra sp-l which is an enzyme for 500mg strawberry that's when you know more dosing you need you can probably do one in that amount for to not going to hurt you you just don't want to put some respeck connection that it that you start you has a slightly for my bedroom that's fine don't worry about it blend until slightly warm good practice rest in 10 minutes good practice 10 to 20 to practice if you do something it's going to break down like bananas you don't want to rest any longer than 10 because it'll start to get kind of brown flavors and spun for 10 minutes at what speed am assuming of a sentence using to do about four thousand times the force of gravity 10 minutes is on the edge 10 to 15 is better at those speeds just because it will clarify almost instantly but the pucks a little

going to get a lot higher when you go faster okay got a very solid fucking Crystal Clear juice glad to hear it but on top of the layer would appear to be the same materials the public floating on top of the vinegar mother scooping out cloud of the Jews for spinning for five minutes more clear it up nicely is this result of air bubbles Trapped In the Mix yes yeah if you have a vacuum machine back in that sucker outbreak at the phone and get the air out no problems no problem I do everyday and I'm glad to hear a new motor Center fuse that only goes up to about 4000 Gees the buckets really aren't it's not like a hazard to life and limb but your Motors will have to be replaced eventually it's about $900 problem in the one we have any way the different question option years ago when I first became legal to sell in the US I bought a bottle to make her seem very energetic about saying it was free of contaminants like through John from the wormwood

people are so crazy it's made from the original illegal formula I said I'd like to try I said I'd try the food Joan free version years ago and laughed and said sue Jones free absent this like alcohol three runs through Jones what makes it special so what's the real deal thank you to show everyone okay so when is at another Portage hallucinogenic you know psychoactive compound that is found in wormwood which is one of the basic characteristic herb from other than the anise taste from absent all of the later ones like you know not later but different ones I print out not the regular regular one hour or Riccar or pasties or any one of these Southern French like I'm a I'm a small man in Marseilles drinking stuff not small small physically

especially good in the summer in Marseille when you're sitting at United Marseille is a great town by the way to Joan in there's a lot of research out there the one that you should go look at again you can get to it by Erowid vaults but there's a bunch of papers out there where they studied old pre ban on absinthe bottles and found that modern absence has a roughly similar levels to older absinthe that the longer that and that's not really high enough to get you cranked up on thujone by itself unless you drink so much that the ethanol is going to have you stumbling and falling over so is there some sort of synergism between like the smaller amount of food joint it's actually in absinthe and who knows who can tell that like most of the studies that have been done quantitative studies out their point of the fact that really what's happening

you're getting drunk and especially if you're trying to see how much absinthe it takes you to Havasu John affect your going to be pastured plus her supposed to be both act right the other the other thing is is that wormwood thujone quality in wormwood this is also been check goes down erratically as it stored on drying so if you have your own wormwood or other Artemis species sitting around and you and you then like take it right away and make absent again have much higher thujone levels and if you take a commercially prepared one that you get in herb shop it's been dried sitting around for a year and you going to get a much lower quality of food quantity but even so the number seem to indicate that you're not going to get crunked on the on the Su Jang that you're going to get shellac by the ethanol now to John is it safe is it a regular Sage World one of those super high and threw Joan I'm not telling you to go take this

all right but if you need to know what do Joan goes like go get a proper dose response relate you know the relationship off of the internet's any one of these you know herbal drug sites has many many users who have put their stuff and make sure that you don't listen to anyone that doesn't tell you like relative quantities and different oils and also bodyweight phenomena things like this because you want to get your Doses and I've never I've never tried it that other people look suppose I supposed psychoactive effects like for instance you know when I was in Columbia we're doing coca leaf infusions with coca leaf tea and yeah and I've never done cocaine so I don't know what that's like I didn't feel anything different but I had people who it had a lot more than I did report that I kept him up at night for instance so there was this couldn't be mental do you know if you tell someone you're having coca leaf infusion

okay let's take one more commercial commercial break

Walmart commercial break all your questions to +718-497-212-8718 for 97212 8 Trucking issues

Meghan Trainor

welcome back to cooking issues by the way I'm not Angelo bus one of my favorite in terms of all-time Road in from Nebraska but I'm not going to have time to get you a question this time I'm going to get you next time Angela all right onto the last question of the day and I really want to talk with you about this with Maxine but it's something I think he's probably interested in Steve Crandall rights and happy to have you seen the paper this interesting paper on food pairing hypothesis and it's called a flavor Network and the principles of food pairing by Young yo on at all okay and it was a paper last year by year by a bunch of people in and out of a bunch of different institutions anyway so whatever I haven't had chance related to have a maximum look at the paper so we're not going to talk specifically about the paper more about just the general the general concept of it but

the basic concept of food pairing has been popular over the last matter what you think the decade or so fat. You're close to the basic premises is that you can get and it's controversial and maximan I would never discuss it together so we we might disagree with to be awesome way to any but the that the basic principle is that you can learn something about food parents are get interesting food pairing ideas by looking at the actual chemical similarities between different food I said so and so what happens is is there a large databases of what flavor of components are in various different ingredients and then those are analyzed and in fact that was famous for which ones that are the white chocolate and caviar both had very similar volatile component Sands

is very interesting with a good I actually never had a cuckoo and roasted cauliflower also both cheddar a compound and that was it it's a beautiful marriage and makes no sense in you know any sort of a traditional contacts that when you taste it together you realize that there is there is definitely value to that approaching it that way I don't think that's it that's consistent and as secure of a n approach that that people will will will presume when they're when they're really getting into this approach them and what they've done is they've taken a bunch of recipe databases and then they've analyzed the recipe databases to see whether or when you scan across many thousands of recipes is there more often than not shared ingredient the shared ingredient flavor of components or not and in the western Corpus there was and it was correlated that more than these disappear anime

a recipe shared flavor compliments for an in their East Asian data-analysis fewer than the statistically number of shared one with but what it boils down to the really interesting thing is is that basically what it is is that 75% of the recipes they pulled in Western Cuisine shared a very small number of flavor a small number of ingredients and those ingredients shared a lot of things like buttermilk and the six most common you know Asian ingredients didn't share a lot of characteristics or so because those things basically waited everything out and all of the other recipes if you remove the most common 6 to 10 ingredients out of out of our out of our tool kits up to then it's basically statistically random in terms of that which is interesting my personal feeling about it is that anything that gives you an idea that's going to make you they going to give you a good play with them find do it whether it's like throwing dice using a you know it a dowsing rod

the hell it is if it gives you a good idea it's good but that you know nothing in the world there's no no chemical analysis is going to replace your memory your taste pallet what you've done before but you might get an idea and then try it and then know how to tweak it but there's just there is no there is no substitute for having tasted a lot and haven't cooked a lot c f c c sort of interesting that the the I guess the the parallel between Western cuisine in Indonesian cuisine in and how we're noticing that these correlations what I think it's really interesting about Eastern cuisine in this sentence is that you know taking away the the sort of chemical the balance of a few few ingredients sent his is the balance of flavor and what I love about Eastern cuisine is that you you know you never talk about the flavor I mean that tastes salty bet

sweet acid and I'm paying less attention to this you know this sort of you know through artificial combination of things that they may have a Synergy or not so when you build a sense of when you build your pallets the balance of a flavors is in a true practice becomes very inherent part of your of European of color experience and a lot of the things maybe more confusing or or misleading look the people who were using these kinds of ideas right or in a modernist cuisine using New pieces of peepees equipment new techniques whatever he's usually in general a very highly creative set of people and they're looking for inspiration and I said this many times it like that are the fundamental thing that Ron gave us was the desire to look outside of the normal kitchen

for our inspiration. That's the thing it's not phones or whatever it's this it's this it's just intense curiosity and they said you know love of learning and so as Cooks do they stay in there looking for a very you know different and different sources of inspiration and is this idea of a different chemical different chemical shared things could that be a source of inspiration for someone who doesn't have the palate to back it up doesn't have the experience back it up it will be confusing as you say and the horrible horrible horrible disaster thank you Maxine thank you Donna

Trish's Finch thanks for listening to rock type programs in Heritage Radio Network. Com as well as the schedule of upcoming live shows spell you can also podcast all of our programs on iTunes radio network in the iTunes Store you can find us on Facebook and follow up to date news and information