Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 76: Tony Conigliaro

broadcasting live from Roberta's in Bushwick Brooklyn you're listening to Heritage Radio Network. Com

approximately today Jack we are coming exactly 12 on the. Which does not happen the hammer Lopez she is at the beauty trade show in Florida Orlando Orlando Orlando rotovap scotch and then taking the leftover Oak and making ice cream with it and I'm assuming taking the the the clear Scotch the grey dog the one that's been that's taken out of it I'm sure she just drinking that to drown her sorrows we should not take no offense to Florida

she's not in Orlando Phantoms put it that way she's not happy to be taking my place in Orlando but eventually today in the audience in the studio rather we're going to have Tony Conigliaro and ships nobody can pronounce his name which I think means rabbit Keeper in Italian days, Tony C but Tony see it runs in a one of my absolute most favorite bars in the whole world 69 colebrooke Row in London fantastic bar he has a laboratory as well or he does a lot of really high in a cutting-edge work in cocktails and was one of the cocktail bars where I first experienced you know the fact that you could use very high-end very high-end stuff in a very comfortable wonderful atmosphere and so Tony should be here in a minute but he is as many guests have been trapped Somewhere in Brooklyn and does not know how to get to Roberta's

Williamsburg headed here started like half hour ago and it's not yet made it for 97212 8 make some faces and stuff across from you that table and make faces for getting me angry question from last week's question that we can get to from Lee County and by the way my kids ran my battery dry on my iPad so I'm actually doing this they show via my iPhone and case you didn't know I'm getting a little old so it's hard for me to read these tiny tiny letters anyway I got my hands on three fresh lamb Hearts will since his question from last week I doubt the landmarks are fresh anymore

I trim the first one in The Medallion who simply Grill it with salt and pepper and it was delicious II also trimmed in medallions and cook it low temperature 456 Celsius for 3 hours and also had it was delicious but had a very similar texture to the first to 10th wondering how I might get a bit more tender on the third heart perhaps another hour or two of cooking or since it's relatively lean cut is there nothing really to break down what Would You Do Well I love heart I haven't got a lot of work with the low temperature cooking on heart but you know the way that you did it first which is really Grill quickly with a guitar on the outside what remains chewy on the inside is to me my favorite on almost any kind of heart you know like chicken hearts with nothing but nothing quite like a grilled chicken on it like if I can grow chickens at just had hearts and skin that I would do that and I love chicken meat but it's chicken hearts and chickens games are are incredible I think you kind of hit the nail on the head it's relatively clean but I believe

I did some research into what I believe most of the muscle heart muscle isn't necessarily connective tissue like it would be something like a gizzard some like that which gives very soft with prolonged cooking is mainly just really strong muscle and so I don't know that it's going to break down the same way as a cut with a lot of collagen and it would with prolonged cooking I'm not saying it won't I mean we are you can try a couple of days and see if it would work if you cook it for a long long time at work can you can tell even with very lean cuts that they get tenders to cook for a long time it's not really a pleasing tenderness it's more of a machinist so I don't know if you're going to be able to get I don't know if you could be able to get exactly what you're looking at with that but I did find an article called studies on development of tenderize chicken gizzard and goat heart pickles this is in 2009 it's a 8K

is the author of an awesome paint my teeth are studying a traditional Indian heart and Gizzard pickles and they did something very smart they they slice it relatively Jakarta to meet somewhat to get penetration and then they brined it in a meat tenderizer they were using a variety of natural tenderizers prisons Ginger apparently has some tenderizing agent and they're also using the late not fix themselves but the latex from a papaya from fig plant or tree and a weird bitter gourd extract that you can't get here in in the US it to try it out and are they had very good luck tenderizing it that way so you could try you could try that and then I read some other articles online what I have done it using a baking soda actually as a tenderizer presumably the live alkaline nature breaks down the protein structure somewhat and positive to bind less strongly to each other and makes it more tender

doctor but now I want to try these pickled beef pickled go-karts we need we need is Chow Down on a pond a jar of pickled old Hart Shaq never considered that before I get Patrick to order to sell some gold Hearts I have the procedure right here and it's pretty dang simple like they give you the whole thing cocktober was goat season for him but I don't know if it's getting more we should be able to have them you know all your all your laundry also another way to tenderize meat that you might not want to do is ionizing radiation at high sterilizing doses of hi-hi-hi sterilizing radiating doses cause changes in meat proteins resulted in increased tenderness and God knows what else for me years people were against the radiation of a fruits vegetables and meats because they thought that somehow that the food was going to glow in the dark until there's a whole group of people that are anti

irradiated foods to me the only real argument against a radiating Foods is if the if the actual radiation sources unsafe to the workers I'm safe to the environment which I don't know if they are not empty does crab taste good or not and so that's a glow-in-the-dark Sushi and it's like a bioluminescent protein mean the one that like you see for on eating a popsicle and you guys talk is glowing yeah it's a bioluminescent protein when you when you irradiated food I mean there's not a bad me all the studies that I've read and they're all old because they were trying to use basically the byproducts of all sorts of awful tests and things they're doing but in a bit basically there's no residual radiation left in the food but one of the issues is you'll get a text Declaration of the food over time is it to radiator the same problem some people have with them very very high pressure high hydrostatic pressure sterilization things like oysters they say that there's textural

changes and usually means that you break a broken the stuff down somewhat just need to be seen at the positive or A negative one person's tenderness as another person's machinist me personally I like meat I like to taste a muscle fiber structure I like it to be tender but I like the structure to be intact when I structure starts getting broken down such as something that is naturally kind of truth becomes tender to me to me that's much if all you're doing is breaking down collagen and collagen breaks down but the muscle fibers are still intact that's tender to me so it to me it's a it's a fine line anyway we've got a caller caller you are on the air is so my father is diabetic and tried Street exclude I was thinking of trying to do things for him and I

what about how the importance of sugar sweetener but as a structural components and I was curious if you have thoughts on meringues with without sugar and just the sugar alcohols I know erythritol has gotten a lot of press if your thoughts in that Dimension and I'm trying to think if I've ever made him a ring with I don't care and to you I'm riding with ice and what would work it just won't be a sweet you know what I mean so you'd have to I don't have a lot of experience I do Wonder one sugar replacement IE trying to keep stuff sweet D. I'm saying I have much more experience trying to get the textural properties of sugar without the sweetness all use things like glucose syrup sand or if I want something harder it's going to have a lot more with feeling property I'll use isomalt

so which is the one you mentioned I forget and does it have similar sweetness properties to sugar body doesn't break down and it doesn't have a lot of nasty. Properties that a lot of other sugar alcohols have so they add to what you would consider your bulk fiber content so they can cause I was a nice with flatulence

and and running has what not to put aside from the fact that it's not sweet or should I like is that it's it doesn't pull a lot of moisture out of the air and so it maintains its structure for a long time and I don't know the properties of the other sugar alcohols but it means I know isomalt works so I'm sure the others are sugar alcohols assuming that they don't pull too much water out of the air and turn to a soupy mess would work as well you know what I mean start over and send it send us a note and tell us how it worked out for you together around immersion circulators it's been really fun to play with I had fun trying to do head-to-head recipe comparisons where you start with very similar base ingredients is to show off the effects to skeptical friends

chicken work welded a buttermilk marinated chicken and either a high heat roast or a slow cook with a flash fry and it was a lot of fun to sort of compare and contrast the different effects on the marinade I was curious if you have other suggestions of recipes are ingredients where you can do a really nice comparison that scientific start with the same ingredients and show off the power of a slow cooking strictly speaking slow cook vs. normal cook

normal cook or just the fun that you can do with a low temp food the cheapest and easiest thing to do and it's not me it's been so it's impressive if you haven't done it before for someone obviously zeggz you know show me someone an egg at 63 vs 62 vs 64 people like oh I guess that's pretty awesome Stakes are so kind of equaled unequal done this all the way through obviously here's one it's interesting it's not better or worse but like a very like a slow cooker on a short rib Some people prefer most like you tell someone that it's

if you tell someone that is the same thing as a braised short rib then they generally they like the braised short rib better if you just tell him he was like a really cool kind of meat in general people really like the long cook things like short ribs because that intense meaty flavor and they cut it cut tender like a steak so short ribs cook for 24 hours at let's say 50 I like 57 to 60 series going to have the texture of a skirt steak which is pretty amazing for people for cooked for 24 to 36 hours is going to have more of a tender steak texture people kind of like that as a comparison it's interesting to compare that side by side with the traditional braces because they're totally different not better not worse different a shot

thank you Tony see Tony the Rabbit Man Tony Conigliaro is in the studio

hello how you doing good how are you getting here a little bit to the audience as I don't know what I said I said that fantastic bartender drinks Factory lab 69 Colebrook Road what's the name of the hotel again anyway so are we actually had a question in for you know you and I talked about cocktails and then after that I think will go to a commercial break and bring out some stuff on 2nd nastasha he's not here today because she's in Florida. Tweeted it out yesterday so we got any good question for you okay this is from Kevin for us I hope you are doing well I've really been enjoying the last two shows I just saw you have Tony C on today so I can talk to you a question to send your way what are your thoughts on the binary interactions of case combinations

essentially say it's sodium in both sodium chloride and MSG suppress bitterness sugar and acid and cats and excetera do you have any methodical approaches to adding small amounts of flavors to find the perfect balance or do you have a standard ratio you apply how do you know how much salt to add to a cocktail that's a question for you Tony

yeah they just outside right in my head for a few seconds

loss of Chivas how its works in your mouth and you going to keep trying and trying meme of a kind of making cocktails him but with kind of working on stuff you know we until you've got to put something on that canvas then you don't know what else is going to happen on that so we kind of guesstimate sometimes off some of the you know kind of literature we read and then kind of work it up and down until we get a puppy formula that kind of could involve like making a drink mix times until we caught that exact kind of residents that we want in our mouths and we think once we give it to know Julian's I think I lost these kind of pipe is just

that use them as fake guidelines never ever say that will Buck University until you've actually kind of tried Hat Racks of all the other ingredients of Tony like if you walk into his I don't know if he still does this but if you walk in when they're actually doing testing no have various and Tony is not if I hear you can come from tough but a big proponent of sub threshold you know modifiers like salt and other other flavors like that that you wouldn't necessarily be able to pick out in fact she doesn't want you to pick him up but they're there to kind of round punch flavors up and down and I remember one time I visited as far

and they are working with I forget what the particular ingredient was but they were the eventual cocktails going to have a fairly small amount and so they're trying to figure out what their mix was going to be you know that it was going to I guess I don't know what you work at a bitters bottles or what they were using a micropipette her basically make a bunch of iterations with very small differences in particular component stay with them and they're not going to pull out of micropipette her at the bar but there is to help him figure out what their base is going to be to work with when they're actually behind the bar so that's something you still do in some of the ended up in the dry martini we did which was to make a dry martini dry rather than it kind of being a flavor it was an effect like which was using kind of condensed time in silico from grape seed so we can have a right to the right if I saw they were very very concentrated and you can have like you are 10 microns

police remove remove that we were having a fact even when you put it in a drink is micro pit passes for that kind of stuff. It's fairly how amazing we started around 50 and even adding 50 microns to apartment vermouth and then make a martini with that dry your mouth out so much that he's trying and then saying where these things got out of

use pre-made chemicals and whatever else did you find from the bar trees the difference with I suppose kind of what we do we have carpet mold fast and loose and as far as when making these ingredients so you know we contest the amount of kind of tannins in something but self so the register is basically in our mouths which I think it will ship anyway yeah it's the most accurate anyway and it's not for the hplc machine he was being obviously we have go to ratios of acids we all have our own favorite Basics hour ratio in our head that we can move up or down on depending on what

what mood strikes us or what the you know the dishes we have to hit our and I also I personally have a basic salt you know at the bar we we have our standard salt solution is 20 G of salt in 100 ml of water dissolve it put it into standard kind of American not even on Imperial drops but a standard American eye droppers and and you know depending on the drink most Citrus drinks get a drop or two depending on how much we want like for me a daiquiri is a one drop drink usually and most of our tequila drinks are to drop drinks because people like a little bit more of an edge on their tequila drinks you don't want you start incorporating something like salt into your into the routine of bartending you're going to find kind of go to go to ratios that you like and Tony takes another step further because you know

every time I've worked for them he really enjoys fine-tuning yeah you know what I mean yeah that stuff over and over again. Think you some pool and because there's nothing to a cocktail bar on having the same dream that you really love that it comes out different variations each time so we trying to find out as much as possible by using some of them are capacitors in the equipment not die just gets makes it United Supermarket in using kind of super accurate Scott Olson and things I haven't had a chance to go to 69 Cobra grow a master of busting all this equipment out behind the scenes but when you show up at the bar it's like you know a tranny band a honky tonk piano and so there's like there is no lease that you know three times or what I've been to London and hung out with basically exclusively at 6 to call Bro

you know you you wouldn't know from being there that you're dealing with someone who is taking such precise care of their drinks until you taste the cocktails with your fantastic and so it was one of the first places where I really saw in practice that you can have a real palace of cart of to the cocktail but in a completely friendly atmosphere which is you know something that hasn't really been replicated too often they know something that we wanted to do because I think you know I want to talk to you guys have a conversation or United States test a distraction you kind of go there to get distracted people that want to know more as well but

Cassis to run a ball that is enjoyable when is fun and has you know is about hosting is attending it's not about kind of kicking out switches you know the bar that you know I'm running now the rapper Leon even though I knew I didn't want to fall into that trap a lot of the technique of the techniques we're so new to the crew that they were just excited about it I think there was a little there was quite a bit beginning too much talk maybe to the customers

about it and we really kind of I think I'm trying to ratchet that back cuz it's really just about to jump out of any kind of watching you last night in the excellent father what you kind of do the thing cuz that's it that's the point of Interest I think you know some of the things we do all that interesting that might have had this on interesting to watch but tonight stuff and I mean I use the liquid nitrogen and I I know what I think is a facial exciting things actually too much I think that brings a whole heap of stuff to her to the United to the table it's an interesting question I just want to make sure you want to make sure that there's nothing that you're using is it can make and then it doesn't become which I thought would you like some friends since we were very very low on garnish mean at this point specifically it's not that I can't make a bunch of crazy garnishes Justina there's talk of Pringles last night with all my God that's great garnish

Bodega week are Pringles Ringle garnish and of course you know Brits don't know what a pringle is so we had to go through a long explanation of what a pringle is Tony Pringles Pringles are a kind of a miracle Pringles I was like one of the biggest R&D development budgets on a food product of all time just like 20 years to pay back and Pringles finally started making money like 20 years after they did because of the amazing like investment in potato chip moles that they made for the Pringles in the can development and all that crazy crazy stuff with someone a 410-7128 cooking issues



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not that kind of glad Tony can you choose a place note of $25 or more before next week's show to get a free package up to your code to play with simple use the promo code C I-76 and placing your order online at meadors told him you seems like you film formers they use for things when you're frying they form a film so that grease theoretically can't penetrate they also help with batter adhesion and you know it's things like this you usually use in like so like in flower you use like a 10% by weight to fry things in a long time because my frat cooler is good enough I don't need any Cristo te puke I'm just kidding I'm just kidding it's all good stuff especially if you're going to do something like

like at 10 poorest up a list of sounds like it's not actually used for 4 that it's used more to do to cast like like glasses and fruits and sheets of starch shirts gray stuff I just don't have that much experience with OK second cocktail question is on Joanne Ice Cube's I'm trying to find it okay for a tree by the concept of a non melting Ice Cube especially if he could be a better heat retention in a standardized plus it would be cool to have an edible cocktail with in a cocktail my question is have you had any success getting the Joanne to stay clear when frozen maybe different hydrocolloid combination would work no it will not stay clear keeps and put them on spitting and then let them and then they melt melt it after they cool yeah yeah but it makes when they're solid there white

yeah specially with hats and yeah yeah yeah we use hydro for electric lock in water that's frozen for cooling you're never going to get quite the cooling pad me to get theoretically the cooling power but what happens is when you're chilling with ice the outside layer of the ice melts that water instantly goes into your cocktail chills and dilutes when you lock the water into a hydrocolloid you haven't believe it or not water is a better insulator than I said I saw you in Hibbett the chilling effect of the ice it's on the inside of the cube as it goes so I will keep a drink cool but it's never going to be as effective as ice ice is damn effective chilling agent what I did do recently cuz they're quite small I have to go on Ellen Ellen Ellen DeGeneres later this week for her Saint Patty's Day cocktail and they didn't want any of the drinks that we actually had on our menu

I don't think I guess I don't know if not then I don't know but that they so it's always kind of wacky stuff so if you watch it's not stuff that you can actually see at the bar but one of the things I'm doing is breaking apart raspberries with liquid nitrogen and then using the raspberry beads that has basically Ice Cube babies to shake a drink to chill a drink it's already been diluted it shows it down and then they are you get the raspberries you drink it with a straw and you suck them up like me on the butt in the air in your mouth

like that pretty much just like that so you can shake with frozen fruit I might wear my favorite techniques that what would lines as well I don't know probably Salon de vesicles are so small I mean you're one of my favorite it does not going to give you a cocktail with a cocktail at one of my favorite things to do is specially home if you don't have a lot of gear is typically used when using non concentrated mixers like grapefruit juice or apple juice freeze him solid like ice cubes and then shake them instead of with ice because they break into a slush because you know juice does freezes hard so they break into a slush in the tens and then and it gets really freaking cold in your delusions always right because you just shake it to the whole son of a bitch turn to a slush yummy nummy okay so let me see I'm going to try and split between just like Tony and I having a conversation and and some of these questions cuz you guys have a lot of questions

let me go to

Steven Garrett from Wellington New Zealand Bible does the Rings I think I never realized I saw like one or two of them but you know I like you know Zena like hit me right at the right time you missed last week about hearts and cooking I'd love to hear a little about tartar of heart Red Heart tartare she had it cut out they tend the spoil quickly because they're exposed to more bacteria than whole muscle Cuts right unless it's a kind of a fact of life Hearts probably are okay cuz they are a big hole muscle cut you just wash off the outside or never trim it never actually had a hard tartar but I did look up basically most of the recipes I found online traced back to a friend of mine Chris Constantino who is known for his cooking of a you know an awful meaning

awful. Awful you know opal are you go and he has a beef heart tartare puttanesca style that means a torn up hearts in the style of horse bridle is Connor. Translation shop anyway, it's very easy to find and it looks like she by not had I'm sure it's good kind of chewy we are you a meat tartare kind of a guy telling me to tell us a little alcohol while adding an extra two to it so that the two can dip down low enough so you can get into alcohol and carbonated without getting foam over basically

extended to the bottom of the bottle but uses a lot of gas to make wine sparkly have to carbonate vent carbonate vent and carbonate and let it sit pressurize for a good few minutes and it has to be almost ice-cold everything you said is true but that's the only damn way to carbonate something properly yeah it is to come to the bar and UCS carbonate where will carbonate for 5 year between three and five times on any of our drinks just to get rid of all of the little nucleation sites that are in it so that we get a nice stable bubble and we have it more than ice cold in fact one of the big things I have to beat out of the bartenders heads is to put the are carbonated drinks on Ice cuz ice is only at 0 and are carbonated drinks are at like -8 so you know when they when they're putting it when they're putting it on on Ice they're warming it

maid sparkling flavors very very old bottle bottle strange carbonation and if you're going to carbonate something at bottle strength it has to be absurdly cold-like -18 see you know otherwise a perception of alcohol is just crazy if you get it down to a temperature where like this a good and delicious use straight gin you know if you're going to get it down to a temperature where it's like syrupy in the freezer then and Andy carbonated it's quite enjoyable but as it starts to warm up even a little bit it's to me kind of unpleasant and then if you add anything like a sugar and acid to it for flavor it goes way out of balance and I think the main problem if people do when they when they're carbonating liquor is that they serve it to my proof so you know if you're if you're serving

you know I stirred cocktails going to be probably somewhere in the area of like 17 18% and a a shaken cocktail I have to go to the math again but shaken cocktails going to be somewhere down closer to like 14 15% but like a carbonated cocktails should really be all the way down at like 12 you know whatever. Sorry I didn't see that machine that measures what kind of brakes supposed to cut a Viber alkalizer is it awesome you can check I will leave the IV's and we will talk to her about the Perfect Crime excessive wet flavor will head that way you taste the best and it was between between 14 and 19 so we didn't know his kind of

get a crime to see if you got back to the most enhanced

I'm out of flavor when you carbonate that punches stuff up which is why you have to drop the I was dropped the alcohol level in a carbonated drink flights to flavor little bit more anyway so basically I would just shake a drink and a carbonated and those are two alcoholic and end up tasting too syrupy and they fatigue your palette quite quickly whereas and it just takes a little bit like the acid balance goes off a little bit and just add some like lightning in a little bit with water you're not a boat load but you liking it a little bit with water in the hold things becomes more pleasant as long as you keep the Bubble Level at the same are you gassing with


come downside of using other gases to I have the ability to do a nitrous CO2 mix water I use nitrous CO2 because I want to soften the bubbles a little bit I want to have the same liveliness but I want to soften the bubbles and nitrous going to stop it as a little bit of sweetness and some cream in this but really just softens up that bubble butt by to connect to make things more acidic this as that studies show that eventually it is your sour taste receptors that are responding to what an enzyme is doing to the CO2 or CO2 effects of particular enzyme pathway on your tongue so it is related to acidity and it does actually produce acid but I think the what carbonating a drink does

is really complicated you know I find that if you taste a drink flat that you want carbonated it should taste a little too weak

and a little low in acid and also I like it a little low in sugar canceling it tastes balance as a sipping drink like it just gets like syruping almost soda like I don't want like a soda like Flavor in my cocktail yeah I'd the results it was so so very normal over the place just because you know what you're writing to


exercise out of a rumor is that CO2 is caring stripping the drive-in to arrive and then taking it to solve the drinks he he's got a Halo

how to Spectrum to look at Rosen justfly time is it in Manhattan there is somewhere over this know as much so that kind of power armor as it dries out his welcome to Roberta's

Dairy Queen Manhattan is one that your dick your attire perceptions change and I think for the worse I detest carbonated Manhattan's but I think they use that as the demo of when carbonation goes bad I think you can make very excellent carbonated rum drinks I think it's also very easy to go wrong with carbonated rum drink yeah they can taste it go from being a delicious drink to almost fake tasting there are great carbonated drinks I've had other people's good carbonated rum drinks I have makeup made rum drinks that I also like but it's like it's a difficult thing I think to do you have to be spot-on with your mix I think the carbonate a rum drink properly Jim carbonates like nobody's business like almost any gin drink can you make carbonated and it tastes delicious or candy made it tastes delicious

which difficult like it's difficult to do a carbonated tea beverage because it's Hannah's get blown out you know what I mean like they they are or amped-up is what I mean and so it can be can be difficult Jack's we go to Walmart commercial break somewhere they were I don't want to wait till it itches

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no no

this is everyone in England pronounce your name wrong is that why you always go back 20 C yes I'm sure I'm pronouncing it wrong but I'm close enough right you are close enough yeah I've had some horrendous and tell me that you talk funny whenever the post comes in I think we've collected about 400 different spending so far of my day so what's your foot your favorite what's your favorite mispronunciation migliaro

that's like a baseball player that actually went by that here in the US in England you are dealing with a country where they they they say spag ball when they're talking about what it's Bad Bunny with a spaghetti bolognese spike ball by the way through to his Italian name is Jillian I speak in Italian language that we can really learn so I said I was a hole where your family actually rabbit Keepers back in the day I have no idea what that name comes from one Village

you know people that have that night you know I have a line of Heritage going back to a little bit of school carrying the outside of Palermo in Sicily someday I'll get to go and by the way I'm going I'm going to go ahead and apologize in advance anyone's questions I do not get to today because you know Tony's not here every day in fact you've never been here before so I can have a conversation in somewhat but if you have any questions just a recommendation someone has Anton Fischer from Lansdowne PA long time listener I'm looking to get a chamber vacuum sealer in the next month and I've never things down to the vacmaster vp112 or the vp215 I favor the vp215 for the pastor vacuum X oil-based pump Enquirer operation but it is huge heavy $3 more is there any benefits of the home cooking getting the more expensive unit both of these you

are kind of in the sub $1,000 chamber vacuum machine range I have had nothing but bad luck with any vacuum machine that doesn't have an oil-based pump to vacuum pump is just not strong enough now that said is it going to seal a steak Yeah if you're out there to do like you know some of the hardcore like flash infusions you know if you're looking to do that kind of work with it you need a damn good vacuum the one that that advertise itself as an oil-based prompt I need to put the problem with that unit I looked it up is that it's just in the middle of mean you can get a real good one from many pack for like 1500 with a real Busch vacuum pump in it and this one's in the $800 range I know who the one I just recommended is twice the price but I have this problem I have a strange genetic disorder that

once I get over a certain price on my God damn it I need the real one if it was like two hundred bucks and I would just go ahead and get the one that was almost as good as soon as it's like I'm like oh hell I need a real one you know what I mean you already told me exactly what you mean this is phenomenal and it wasn't until we discovered multipack we put it through its paces and recycling stuff out and and some of the others just get clothes and just bruised Braxton and destroyed because of that but the monkey back keep playing out then you can smell it all over again to the main commercial bread brands are available here in the US like the multivac they many pack the Koch all of these they all use this German vacuum pump called a bush pump

and the vast majority of the price of the vacuum machine is determined by the cost of that pump Bush pumps are just expensive but they have some serious cojones on them and they like Tony said you run those suckers and they go and then they get gummed up because you're going to vacuum water into them not directly but in the form of paper it's going to contaminate it just run those suckers and clean them out and then they're going to snow again so I don't know if the Lesser vacuum pump even if it's an oil base Pub me when it's brand-new it'll get down to the same vacuum levels at the bush but the bush is like the Timex of vacuum pumps and suckers takes a licking and keeps on ticking there's a reason why all of the big companies use it and there's no way that a sub $1,000 chamber vacuum machines going to have a bush pump in it right and so what they're doing it in the rest of it mean programming is great nice chill bars that's all fantastic it's all great but

what you're paying for with the more money is the awesome vacuum pump the rest of it he knows I'm sure it won't Crush under its own vacuum for occasional use I would get the oil base one you're going to be at think less than satisfied with one that's not not oil-based you could if you're like me whip the vacuum pump out of the other one and install a rear seal oil based pump as a separate thing but now you're talkin about spending extra money time and more space on your counter or back yeah what you think okay I'm not a fan of the back because you know theoretically it's meant to do kind of vacuum vacuum frying a vacuum fryer but it's vacuum pump is weak hearing compared now you can fill up the gas go back up to the vacuum pumping multi-factor set the program in to be right and be damn good everything is that the guys are back by the way is it is a modified pressure cooker with a

acrylic LED and it goes to a vacuum pump and it lower the pressure on the inside so you could do in fusions in oil or frying play that the vacuum pumps that's not that good and that vacuum pump has no way to exhaust the water very well that you're sucking into it so he gets bogged down very quickly do need to call trap so you know I prefer Wylie wanted to test where I ran a cult I ran a line I bypass their vacuum went directly into my vacuum pump cuz I I use oil-based refrigerator vacuum pumps it's just like walk around vacuum pumps are the ones that Refrigeration technique technicians use cuz they're pretty cheap and you can fill the oil really quickly the reason to get to my and and use the liquid nitrogen cold trap and then I got to work but as as come from the factory I don't even when using is infusion I don't see why you wouldn't just use your vacuum machine

anybody would you have a good use for it yammy we kind of did that we just leaving with no hate just kind of confusing to cut cut the

the Cody Wilson stuff like that just cuz it's bigger than what you should do I did want to just take him build a lot like Alexa and Alexa and lid for like a giant stock pot and then you can just go ape shitt hook it up to a vacuum machine and myself when I'm like a I use the gaster backpod actually a pot when I'm doing a plaster casting is also use it to Deer ate plaster but you can probably go for that and by like the large basically deaerators for model casting people because plaster shops use them and Plastics shops using 2D array resins and plaster before they put them in the molds and they have some

pots and since your food's not going to be directly in its going to be inside of another container in there who cares you know what like what it's made out of I think they're made out of probably be like plastic and aluminum or so like that but the food's not going to touch it and then just make sure you got a good enough vacuum pump on it all right we got another we haven't we haven't we have some fans in Bergen Norway which I enjoy wow I have already told you I don't think so now maybe I just want to hear it again though I only have one Swedish show can I use it to taunt Nails might need a long time co-worker and and good friend is now back with Marcus Samuelsson running all of his restaurants

and only Suites in Norwegian to look at this one hey Tony what's a what's a Swede

a root vegetable person

2nd Royal money

yeah studio audience like that one that one anyway okay hopefully I haven't already told that one too many times on the radio but I have no pony in that race so I'd like I can say whatever I want this week to keep up the good work it out I hope you have a better week and having his feet highlights from Bergen Norway from Brooklyn as I'm here for a few days I might even go to see you at Roberto's is Tuesday I don't know if he's in the audience looks like he's eating pizza at the back is what I mean

he switched off Tuesdays I saw him here the other than other day on a Sunday yeah starbar I'm sorry I missed you we loved it especially the Gin and Juice gin juice is good drink Champs Bar Next Door awesome couple questions where can I get calcium hydroxide like pickling lime in New York City for some reason it's impossible to get in Norway eBay worth the shipping is really expensive and I'm here now so by the way I'm a dry tortillas which is a dress before on my blog using sodium carbonate made by heating sodium bicarbonate with work but the car made had no not such agreeable flavor to my palate still awesome things for the next two mile post on your blog way back in the day yes I'll go to to get that stuff go to kalustyans 123rd Street and Lex between 28th and 29th Street fantastic place for all your general weird spice music good place right

they have it or at least I should have it if they don't have it goes under a bunch of different names slaked lime calcium hydroxide pickling lime do you want to get the Thai version of lime paste and red or white go to Bangkok grocery on 104 Moscow Moscow is in kind of Little Italy Chinatown area over by where the Five Points District used to be but call them ahead because sometimes they're out if you want actual pal from Mexico go to El Tepeyac grocery on Lexington Avenue in like a hundred 3rd Street and while you're there stop by kitchen arts and letters the greatest cookbook store in the United States also interesting question in same same same color it's the fish that it's like you take stockfish another one that are dry without the salt and then you soaked in lye and for you rehydrate a little bit then you soaked in lye then you wash the LIE out and it turns all gelatinous and funky

something that everyone is not from their doesn't like it's kind of like a slippery I haven't actually had it but Harold McGee our mutual friend Harold McGee who's now in China introduce me a recipe for like hearing aids really quickly and Sonos and I did a fake lutefisk where the egg was lutefisk flavored and the fish was just kind of cured regular fish it was good so this is for a weird a dish wondering whether you could do it long introductory is that he calls Luther which means like why rights of lutefisk is like live fish and I can't pronounce the second part of it but Luther pinnekjott got your I don't know so I'm just a friend of mine so very old traditional Norwegian dismay from dry car with ly

but there's this other dish that is really famous they're called pennick pennick jot touch I can't pronounce which is a whole side of lamb salted and dried sometimes smoked cuddle on the ribs to make sticks of me rehydrated for 24 hours to take the salt out and then steamed until the salt till the meat falls off the bone and Sky really likes it so what he's wondering is this Italian Frank is can you make that stick meet with Ally solution same way that you do lutefisk and basically he's wondering what happens to the fat will it turn to soapless saponify with the calcium hydroxide I would lie with other alkaline and yes I think it will buy the groceries with chicken and like a little bit of chicken and I boil chicken with calcium hydroxide and it tastes good in small amounts but if he apparently I did some research and in Finland if you if you over cure that loot face

are there they have a word for it called a soap fish because you saponify the fats and if you think about it because God that you're using or whatever laying or ever you're using in Norway to make your lease fast is a very lean fish and so there's very little fat to saponify in that fish and so you typically don't do it on really kind of oily oily fish so I would be wary he's very lean cuts of meat and I would not necessarily soak it in his high a solution or for as long but you will get the tenderizing effect alkalyn tenderization Salinas used in China for instance alkaline solution to meet to get really soft kind of meat Textures in beef it's kind of cut thin marinated in like a baking soda solution or lye solution that live alkaline solution and then cook in the basic principle is that that they are the alkaline solution weakens the protein bonds and so therefore makes it softer

and so it'd be interesting to try a little bit saponification is good and like Lynn some of the characteristic flavor to things like tortillas but a lot of saponification equals so and so I wouldn't necessarily be a good but I hope you try it I hope you stop by Roberta's they wanted some recommendations or someone else actually want some recommendations of places to eat buttered Jack we have another show coming on the air right now thanks for coming in if you don't go to one of Tony C's bars you are a fool

thanks for listening to this program on the Heritage Radio Network you can find all of our archive programs on Heritage Radio Network. Com as well as the schedule upcoming live shows you can also podcast all of our programs on iTunes by searching Heritage Radio Network in the iTunes Store you can find us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter to date news and information thanks for listening

Twista get it straight