Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 66: Deep Fry

broadcasting live from Roberta's in Bushwick Brooklyn you're listening to Heritage Radio Network. Com

cooking issues this is Dave Arnold Roberto's Pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn join as usual in the studio with the last week was the second kind of anniversary / holiday party the Heritage Radio Network went good time was had by all. First of all first of all they're not and second of all

call all your questions.

That's that's right we have some questions to get to from by the way this week is the last pre-Christmas show correct yes so next week you have to ask all of your Christmas cooking related questions because that would be our last opportunity to answer them last night I was on the Anthony Bourdain No Reservations show which I wasn't able to watch because I don't have cable and she was able to watch it and said that I didn't come off like an idiot which means he must have heavily edited me compared to the rest of the show you were the best part is on it

has Christopher Walken until 45 anyway maybe some hired my 28 or 29 year old body can't handle staying up till 11 anymore

nice okay let's get some of last week's questions while we're at it only last week had two questions I was only able to answer one of them this one comes in on spherification make a the tiny balls I use sodium alginate bass for certifications once in a while I do that based on a recipe from the alinea book mostly so typically mix the food to be spear fide with calcium lactate this is a reverse spherification I will go to that minute this works great and I get no bad taste but I was wondering why I can't use a straight up calcium that I get from the grocery store instead of calcium lactate gluconate I'm a joker Spears once and they work great with no additional calcium anything since he was already high without any additional calcium anything because it was already high in calcium is playing calcium not soluble in a food liquid in its pure form maybe what is the deal is a couple of deals

one knows you don't know what you're talking about sodium alginate is a seaweed derivative of hydrocolloid that as soon as you get a solution oven to touch his calcium it forms an irreversible gel the downside is to downsize one is that there's three it doesn't taste very good cuz it locks in flavor to the textures not particularly Pleasant and the third problem is is that if you were to take a flavor like sand mixed with alginate drop into calcium it turns solid you know very quickly what did solid it has basically no flavor to it at all show me so what do you put the calcium into your flavor and you drop it into Algeria and it just warms a thin membrane around the other side now calcium is not extraordinarily soluble in water foods that naturally have a lot of calcium in them can be used for

verification so for instance olives I typically already but they usually add calcium to the brine that they're in to keep them crisp and that's enough to do reverse spherification calciums are basically a grade of bad taste to 22 solubility is the worst tasting that's calcium chloride it tastes horrible you never use reverse spherification that you can get in the supermarket grocery but most forms of calcium calcium carbonate is a very insoluble and you're not going to get a very good results but

fruit juices that are dealt with calcium I think are typically doped with a calcium lactate gluconate so those would probably work so the more available calcium it's available in the system the stronger than gel setting it is so if you need a very strong gel you need a very hard fast on a calcium and that's when you bust out the Lactaid or God forbid the claw ride if you want a softer gel you can use a list available form of calcium or less calcium total so I think you'll notice that the less calcium have their or less available the calcium is to the alginate the softer the gel will be and it has to do with the fact that basically the strength of the jail is kind of dictated as it's forming so it just leaving it longer and a calcium bath will cause more gel to form the won't make it a lot lot strong ducks

Jacob Cessna 172 being kind of bee Hallmark private aircraft Cessna 172 so that way a long time listener first-time Rider I have a crap ton of questions by the way Jacob I changed your actual wording which wasn't crap ton family show so we can't talk you can't curse any more Jack

no questions but we will start with a few easy ones I do a good amount of hunting and just hit a big on Ducks the other weekend I have breast my bunch of spoonies that's a spoonbill. By the way and have a few teal that I have plucked and vacuumed sealed and waiting for me in the fridge I already ate some of the spoon he's a butterflied the brush soap and then roll them in some housemaid guanciale for my vagina is in San Francisco and quickly sear them in a hot cast-iron skillets guanciale for those you not in the know is cured Pig jowl it's one that may be the most delicious things you can put on a pizza what do you think it's some delicious I could have just said Charlie

Jesus damn

oh my God OK in San Francisco. Cast iron skillet my girlfriend and I had that with some duck liver mousse she made it was awesome the mood was on bread and not in a duck breast implants I recently returned from some training at Quantico game and waterfowl any tips on cooking a few breaths I have left and the to teel's okay now so the right ones to cook anywhere between two me 57 South which is about 135 and 58 Celsius to pending on how tough the duck breast is you don't want to over want to cook one of these things too long even on a regular farm-raised duck after a long cooking time the breasts are going to start losing their texture and they're going to taste Livery and gave me my sumption is if you're doing a y

call Doctor that's going to happen a lot lot faster but I would try the breast sous vide at 57 I'll try them for I'll try one just to see what it's like by 57 or 37 and a half for about an hour pull it down and then sear it off and see kind of what result you get if it's too tough you could try going longer I like 2 hours but you're starting to start probably get a livery gamey tasting if I'm really curious as to what kind of results you get out of it now another thing to be aware of and I'm sure you know this is a hunter is that the taste of the animal is widely depending on what the duck has been eating this has been known for centuries so I did some some research for you first I looked in my after the hunt book which is John folse his book on hunting in in Louisiana and he had only one recipe for a spoonbill but it was so like kind of doped up with stuff that I doubt you could take them to spoonbill spoonbill actually taste like

she pointed Canvasback so well known as one of them kind of best tasting. So you can get but he says what they probably don't taste as good as they used to because they used to graze a lot on wild celery and basically all of that all of that is gone the more research I was like well what do spoonbills AKA shovelers shovel snow shovel nose Ducks up eat because what they do is they stick their their big old beat-up their big old bill into the mud and scoop crap up so there was a study done in 1922 I know it's on the food have attached to the shoveler or spoonbill duck by WL McNatt he basically what's interesting about the spoonbill is that it not only eats a lot of vegetable matter but a lot of animal matter out of the mud in a special kind of small Crustaceans and so my guess is it safe to have somewhat of a fishy taste and so the thing is is that cannot be made a positive thing or is that inherently a negative thing

Richie Martin in 1918 in a hunter and a Trader Trapper the magazine makes a note that you can remove the skin of these dogs and a lot of the kind of fishy taste because it's going to concentrate in the fat is going to be concentrated in the skin and so if you're having a problem with Russia take taste in a in a spoonbill perhaps you can remove the skin and get rid of that horrible because the skin is obviously one of the reasons why God invented the duck he also if you read go in and Rita Edward by TmarTn piece on ducks in the 1918 edition of Hunter Trader Trapper on Google others a very interesting discussion of rice Birds Carolina rice Birds which are one of my Fascinations because it's the Bobolink which is a still extant birth that used to Gorge themselves on Rice as they flew South through the Carolinas and they were such a pest that people go out and shoot them and Jose but they were incredibly delicious and could be eating whole similar to the French ortolan and I'll just meet you one quick Passage

this is a Edward TmarTn riding in 1918 I will remember how the Carolina rice fields were protected from the ravages of the iceberg by an army of Plantation have slaves anymore if you know what I mean what I mean is is fortunately they weren't we have slaves anymore but they were still unfortunately held down in the plantation system there's an excellent book called black rice by what's her first name Beth what's-her-name something Kearney and it's an amazing book on the evolution of the rice Plantation in South Carolina specifically how the rice is there was an African type of rice and the actual technology of slaves brought over to South Carolina and then how they got co-opted and ended up so they started out with kind of a better situation than many of the other slaves on the in the east coast and then got progressively worse because the conditions were so awful

after slavery was abolished the rice plantations continue to exist but the conditions were still horribly awful and the only reason that it went away was because it turned out that mechanization couldn't be applied to the Carolina rice fields anyway you guys are me Plantation hands armed with muskets and stationed along the levees the birds were given no rest was one constant bombardment I have been in some skirmishes where the firing was no heavier I guess he was in the war a very few of the birds were very few of the birds killed were picked up the object was to save the rice but that wasn't found their way to Market where Steven is a great delicacy for the table they were far ahead of any other game I ever ate not even excepting Woodcock okay and then

what kind of answer that question Jacob Wright songs that's something to think about because I'm going to be emailing you a lot of questions I've been talking to the guys at 4505 Meats in San Francisco and Napa I'm learning to make my own shibumi and because I like to hunt I've decided turn a small in-laws quarter my backyard into a meat Retreat I'm only 25 and don't have in-laws and if I did I wouldn't want them in my backyard like a bunch of Jacob let me tell you something once you get a chance if you should have the kids someday you're going to want the in-laws to come over to take care of the kids believe me so you going to have to convert that back from a meat Retreat into an in-law cabin once it once you have the small u.s. cooler game Locker in along with Aries to hold my meat slicer and butchering tables I really want to Buffalo Chopper and who doesn't buy the big question is what to use the fermentation curing chamber I was looking in u.s. cooler makes floral coolers which allow you to control temperature and humidity would they work just something to think about while I don't know

Frogmore you can also it's very easy to build a simple humidity temperature controller for like two three hundred bucks you could control a however you want I can go into that if anyone's interested later I don't really have time for me today but it's easier to Google keep medistat indoor humidity control for a couple hundred bucks you can do it and also Jacob mechanical engineering and owns her own small bakery. It's pretty freaking awesome thanks for the help

them young girls they do get weary


you know she's waiting

Jeff's and Jeff's never never never


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That's why you sound effect paper crunching on the mic sounds awesome doing it every week you are welcome I had a suggestion for a cooking equipment gift for the holidays that they requested at the end of the last week show a good quality deep fryer for the home probably can be had at a reasonable price gently used from Craigslist or Ebay I think it's under of an under-appreciated Home Appliance folks just need to take the plunge haha and use them and I'm sure Dave can offer lots of suggestions for home use Beyond french fries right did you pick a question that I like okay look

for the past few 12 years or so 10-12 years I've had in my home a professional deep fryer professional requires 35 pounds of oil to fill it up and requires 90,000 BTUs of gas and heat it up the frying temperature in about 5 minutes flat now there is so much and I got it for fifty bucks by the way I'm Mexican restaurant went out of business down at what the time was the World Trade Center and I bought it there and professional deep fryers now almost always have stainless steel kettles on the inside cuz they're easier to clean I found an old black steel 1 and because nobody wanted it and because there was a tiny leak in the bottom of the cat that I had to brace shut I got it for fifty bucks and I will get home in a snowstorm and hook it up and it's maybe the greatest thing I love it

have a misconception by frying when you have a large deep fryer like that it will last a lot longer the food tastes a lot better and it's a lot a lot better there it's not like a small fryer is a smaller version of a real fire real restaurant fryer especially a gas-fired one tube fryer has I would call the cold zone so what happens is first of all the tubes are very large you have a very large of flow a very large surface area to heat do not locally overheating the oil anywhere it also starts nice a convection currents of oil so that really heats up very very quickly and very evenly has amazing recovery the other thing is is that there's a large area below the tubes where all the little particles from your food that come off settled now in a normal fryer home that's tough to sit at the bottom scorches Burns and ruined your oil

in a commercial fryer they sink beneath the tubes into a much colder area of oil so they don't burn and they don't ruin the rest of your loyal they just settle to the bottom then at the end of the night you open it you drain your oil you filter. You poor back in and you're good to go so your oil last a lot longer also there's nothing on I-10 by the way I fry every damn thing in that thing I fry rack of lamb rack of prime rib steak french fries onion rings Fried Chicken basically anything that you want to eat can be fried best way to test your oil when you're frying to see whether she still good or not and yes it's a woman nastasha is to take a piece of neutral bread fry the bread and then eat the bread in the bread is very neutral sure you can if you really were major city you unfortunately have restaurants closing down all the time and you can get it at auction pretty pretty cheap I mean. I used to get all my stuff on auction back

for I had kids and my wife still let me bring made major pieces of kitchen equipment home before I live in a tiny apartment and how about rotisserie turkey I know Thanksgiving is behind us but I was looking for an awesome roasting technique and thought rotisserie would be perfect if you would get the right setup does Dave know of any good spit set up outdoor wood oven with a side heat Source like a Wood-Fired oven and what are the physics of having that posed to be that you get from rotisserie and is it still good on chicken because it's continually being basic as it turns okay I don't know of a good rotisserie motor normal normally I don't want once a long time ago to do a pig all rotisserie Motors that I've seen inexpensive are horrible they suck and the reason is is the gearing isn't very good so if you have a bad rotisserie what happens if you almost never have the meat on a rotisserie perfectly centered

so the rotisserie slows down as it as it lifting the heavier side of the of the meat over the top then it's an eerie stop for second Falls as it goes through to have your part and tell the gear catches again and then goes a little faster on the down so you basically don't have even heating all the way around awful I don't know what anyone's no one's invested in like a simple Precision like worm gear drive it can't be over dreaming a used one wants with a boudin which is an awesome little motor and that thing that sucker was dead on like I could I could have swung you know I could have sworn that piece of meat in tirely on one side and it would have spun evenly so that said I don't know of a good setup it's all about it's all about securing the meat and making sure that it doesn't flop around and in at the wingtips or whatever don't fly off and get burnt doesn't catch on fire and come off in the way to get burnt that's fantastic

hi average high sorry instantaneous heat on the one side right which is making a good skin or a good crust on whatever you're cooking but a low average heat because you don't enclose you don't want to close a rotisserie enclose rotisserie is basically in oven with a broiler on one side rotisserie is really very keen to low temperature cooking in that you keeping the average heat input very low so you're not in cooking the meat are the basic self-basting how big is somewhat because it gets a little oil on the outside but I don't know the actual science of the of the basement and what that does I probably should I should research it that said the trick a rotisserie is a trying to get the heat input low enough that it doesn't overdo too much over cooking of the outside of the meat but high and I was actually Cooks in a reasonable amount of time I'm so that's that's the trick but I don't know of a good wood fire to be great it's just a question of finding a good rotisserie motor and I think that's one of the things we might build Sunday

okay Jason Molinari rights and about deep fried chicken and also Wasabi Jason apologize in advance I don't know the answer the salary question but we will put out to our readers give up the good work with a podcast Anastasia keep hammering cook chicken fryer to deep frying and maintain the same deliciousness hopefully essentially Cooper insurance if you call it but I wanted what that means is you cook the chicken before hand low Temp and then you fry it and then when you're frying it just have to worry about the crust you don't have to worry about cooking the chicken all the way through and that's really really good technique when you want to cook chicken at the same time as french fries and you don't want to have to separate oil temperatures okay the problem is the crust doesn't come out the same with the low temp cooking vs. regular straight frying I imagine because I've denatured some of the proteins in the scan and broken down some of the connective tissue have you experimented with a pre cook fried chicken any advice to get the best possible crust / crunch on it

problem seems to be lost in the collision between the crust and the chicken almost becoming a shell okay I have the answer for you I believe and tell me if I'm wrong right and tell me if I'm wrong a lot of people's had this problem the main problem with a fusion of crust on a chicken is because of the skin is wet and when you're cooking something in a in low temp you tend to get a soggy kind of outside of the skin codes inside of a bag what you need to do is as soon as you remove the chicken from the circulator you need to cut it open while it's Still Blazin hot put it on a rack and let the skin flash off and form a pellicle on the outside okay this is why I after you brine a chicken before you fry it you typically put it on a rack and let it dry mean I know Carlos air doesn't do that Carlo he doesn't Carlo just stick takes a straight from the Brine and puts it in his recipe I haven't I haven't tested with it yet but it goes against all all things I've ever known about Fried Chicken

delicious so I have to look into it anyway you want to find a pellicle and that's going to increase the adhesion a dry thing then you're going to want to go I do a flower then I do my liquid dip which is a buttermilk egg baking powder baking soda salt pepper and then back in the flower I'm just telling you that steps I use because if you're using a different kind of reading technique perhaps it won't work the same way but it's all about drying the chicken off in the best way to remove it from the bag when hot let it dry on Iraq then read it then fry it and you should get the same kind of quality and second question why does Wasabi taste so much stronger when paired with shellfish I seems it when the same quantity Wasabi's put on a bee or a fish at the Eddie blows my sinuses up on a shelf and I know I don't know shrimp he's getting more of a hit then he is on a fish

I don't know I don't know how well someone's going to have someone better right in or something like that I did some preliminary searches on it that's a tough one to search for the scientific literature really is that's not what I wanted McGee buddies on a deadline so he he he couldn't come into maybe next maybe next time maybe maybe for Christmas we can get Mickey Mickey Mickey on a Christmas episode from Chicago to know about tongue tacos and flan hello I recently tried to impress My Girlfriend by making a Pumpkin flan in a low temp water bath and completely failed my Approach was fairly simple I basically applied Douglas Baldwin's approach to creme brulee to the flan flan custard mixture Douglas's technique and wrote a book and he was working on some of the differential equations with Nathan myhrvold for cooking times which you know are our team of experimenters might be interested on that you know that are working on that.

Douglas his technique basically involves blending the various ingredients pouring into a bag and cooking for 15 minutes at a hundred eighty degrees Fahrenheit you actually Cooks another 15 minutes and then distribute to a service vessel that I applied caramel crust to the bottom of the Flies who's going to inverted I what I had left was a slightly more viscous mixture with some grain to it that did not improve at all after sitting because Douglas lets his stuff is sitting service vessel in like a Ramekin for like 4 hours to 8 hours just to supposedly set up a sort of collapse into a pile of porridge when I slipped on the plate do you have any tips for making low temp flan his technique is way more appealing to me than the traditional oven water bath approach okay so it doesn't fall in what he does he's with all the ingredients for you basically takes a creme anglaise mixture by the way and not like a standard like like a puppet to cranmore or a custard mix for like a flan right and then he

when's it and they put into a bag Cooks it and then agitated in a ziplock bag and imports in Hooksett set this is never a first of all he coaching for 30 minutes and you can do to Douglas ball went to go look at his YouTube and go all the way through it but he basically he cooks his his Custer his what he called the custard anywhere between 175 and 180 degrees 5 degrees Fahrenheit what is anywhere from a little under 80 degrees Celsius to about eighty-five degrees Celsius and he cooks it for half an hour now I've done many many many miles away is which is very similar mixture in bags in the in the circus it over time I think half hour is too long the longer you cook it it does start getting thicker to look at thicker but also the egg taste comes out a lot more so end up tasting a lot more like cooked eggs the longer you cook it we try to keep our time between about 15 and and 20 minutes in a bag and we always do 82 degrees Celsius

is about 181 degrees Fahrenheit is 85 degrees Fahrenheit is 85 degrees Celsius is too high I think it's it's too high and I think that the other number he gives hundred seventy-five switch is 80 degrees Celsius in the proper amount of time so I would definitely do that he also does his stuff in ziplocks and a ziplock will work at those high temperature as he says but they're very fragile those temperature so you have to be careful the other problem is is that if you do a side-by-side taste test of a creme anglaise made in a Ziploc vs. acrylic glaze made in a vacuum bag the one of the vacuum bag tastes a lot better and I think it's because the air is trapped into the mixture when your blending it you're not getting any of that out and it adds a kind of agcl free taste to it that you don't get if you do it in a full-on vacuum bag as one of the the readers of kids YouTube thing said perhaps when you're taking the bag out to agitate it so it doesn't for many Kurds halfway through the cook you could crack the bag a little bit and get rid of some of the excess air Maybe

fix some of the problems you know cuz Douglas says when it happens if that is mainly water vapor and there is it is mainly water vapor cost from the increase of key but there's also some residual are from when he put it in the blender the other thing is is that a sign of the fact that I would do that to chrome and glass in a vacuum bag and not a ziplock if you can help it A A creme brulee to me is not done with us Third Kind of custard that way it's done with the set Custer so I typically use a pot de creme recipe which is cooked in a in a cvap oven so it's not agitated at all in fact it's it's completely stationary and the same holds true for a flying flying unlike a creme brulee which can be eaten out of the out of the pot right and I do mine like I say to cvap I'll pour the the mixture the custard mixture into a Ramekin put in a cvap oven which is basically a steam low temperature steam oven and I'll cook it at the same temperature they wouldn't water bath but without stirring and it sets up into a nice from blank I believe it's great

4fun you need to add more texture because you have to unbolt it so first of all you can't follow his recipe and use egg yolks you have to use whole eggs so that you get that extra protein in there to have it set so you can end it now I've never done this so I have no idea what this would work but you might be able to take a Ramekin put or or your pipe up iPad won't work because it's going to explode in the vacuum but you could probably put it in a Ramekin I'll make sure you doing this apply to and then put a lid on it and then zip lock it shut underwater and then wait it down so that you're in a water bath but still in a Ramekin the whole trick is defeated at an accurate temperature without stirring it but you're going to have to go longer if it's not stirred and not getting convection with the bag with the moving around you going to have to cook it a lot longer so we typically do around you know 80828 between like he does between 181 and 185 in and steam oven for about 45 minutes in a Ramekin and you should get a good result and

should be able to turn it off so I made tacos de lengua that stung for the same meal thankfully my girlfriend is adventurous as I am and followed Kenji alt approach Kenji sous-vide fish tacos tongue for tacos you suggest 24 to 48 hours at 170 Fahrenheit which is 76.6 Celsius tan for 36 hours the results were entirely too mushy for me but my girlfriend claim to enjoy it a lot what are your suggestions if I'm aiming for texture that is more bite to it I was thinking about trying 24 hours at 170 thanks Starbucks even that is too long for me we are cooking up at 76.6 degrees you're basically doing standard raise temperature so the advantage of getting from the bag is only a having to use Liquid so you can have a more intense tongue taste and also probably a slightly higher yield but and you know so you don't have to make as much to you as you wouldn't traditional brace you could do a small amount of bags that's all three

but those temperatures I wouldn't think you would have to cook it longer than so if it took it for traditional Braves was going to be like 4 hours 5 hours I would do and we do it a couple hours more like six seven eight nine you know what I mean like not that long there when you cook something for a long time it takes to break all the texture down and it can get kind of mushy as you say and some people like it that way I don't like a little more texture to it so I would try radically shorter amount of time like 12 or 10 and see it see how that is and if it's not great then you can I would put like a tester in a bag and then have your Mane bag in the pool and after 10 hours she would you like it if you like it go with that it's already too much you have to go last but I think you'll probably be okay with like 8 to 10 hours at those temperature for give me a shot

on the brine subject I'm unfortunate going to push that Brian subject off until next week again because I'm going to try to get ahold of McGee because I also want to have the argument with McGee on the air about whether brining a turkey causes you to have too much assault in the pan drippings and therefore not being able to use the gravy and I was thinking about it in the shower this morning while I was washing my hair because I wash my hair everyday which apparently with and and men who care about their parents did not is that true

I wash my hair everyday I grew up watching our hair everyday bro like you go in the shower and shampoo is there since you use it on your hair to make your hair clean web series I don't know how about shampoo anyway anyway it's an interesting fact for those either don't already know this but they're it like in New York because New York is where New Yorkers there's a whole subset of men who also apparently care of that there that their hair has a nice shot shine to it supposedly I get some non please shine I don't know how that work so they do not wash their hair everyday

is McGee is expecting you to use a broth for your to reinforce the drippings to make your gravy or do something I always make a stop and use the stock of the basis of the gravy and reinforce it with the pan drippings the stock doesn't have any salt in it and so therefore I'm not getting access to much salt in my gravy that makes sense so we'll push off the the what's it called until until then can also and he says I want to remind you about the cookie issue I raised a few months ago regarding the research on oxalate content of food oxalosis and kidney stone is a problem I most recently face for Thanksgiving cuz potatoes that have a lot of it sweet potatoes at worst cook carrots and cook celery or are poisonous people just problem other raw celery seeds be okay for no apparent reason cranberry sauce is okay but almonds are disastrous and the list goes on and on I'm more or less made two different meals one that was low and oxalates in one

normal as I said previously actually seems to be a rare disease but there are plenty of people who have had kidney stones I eat my mom or a candidate for them and the. Softens his doctor's office to get to low oxalate diet I'm telling you if you want to follow a low oxalate diet good luck the research and guidance are almost non-existent much of what is out there on the internet is from unreliable pseudo holistic are nutraceuticals sorts of people with charts I have found Hospital foundation's other side the pure be reputable are inconsistent and would love to know more and how to accumulate reliable information so I did a search again and I went to the oxalosis and hyperoxaluria foundation tohfa and looked at their list of foods and sure enough can is a weird list of food and I think the problem is there's not intensive research first of all like they could be actually content of a food it is dependent on plant food is rather than depend upon kind of weird how it's grown the conditions it's brown and so say with carrots and calcium content there for the Arts and all that concentration of the inside of a carrot is widely varied depending on where it comes from and how to grow in age of maturity variety eccentric cetera

it's okay because the people haven't been doing the research no one has done the research trying to figure out how to grow something with a predictable amount of oxalate in at least I haven't found anything so far so when it becomes a big enough deal for has people will try to figure out a way maybe not to reduce it and everything but at least make it consistent so that you were going to know ahead of time what you're going to go on first of the random on your mind I think you think of oxalic acid when you think of rhubarb so you naturally stay away from the almonds and which have a very high oxalate content you wouldn't think about it so it's very very weird and David precious and Buzz in the consumer coffee circles Rebel 900xl espresso maker that just became available in the US the buzz is it because Breville is a major appliance maker and by the way Bridal is pushing freaking hard they they they gave a bunch of stuff to the French Culinary Institute they were at South Beach Food and Wine Festival last year and Sasha remember that they they were working with Christine Tosi from Milk Bar they're pushing hard

call their appliances should sponsor cooking issues so there is all I will say that their stand mixer that's trying to compete with KitchenAid comes with the scraper paddle blade which is nice an extra one which I thought was nice but I haven't used the rebels $1,200 machine I probably competes with regular commercial machines twice the price dual stainless steel boiler boilers variable pre infusion manual to automatic Brew settings a nice portafilter really ain't at the buddy list of types of steam pressure there's not a full review on coffee geek yet but you know what do you think it called YouTube on it and it seems okay really want stainless steel for your boiler most people want brass because well I guess you're the thing all the old all the old issues people had with espresso machines are really based on what

espresso machine was meant to do and and how is designed old special machines are designed to throw away a huge amount of heat and therefore become stable by taking in a bunch of energy and then throwing a bunch of it away and that's how they gain stability now that everything's controlled with microprocessors that's not the same you don't need that anymore so you probably don't need a big brass boiler stainless steel Brothers by the great and very sanitary and all that. Also has a heated head which means that separately heated head which means I'd love to try a couple shots of the maybe if we're ever was one of our sponsors they could give us one of those machines we could test it out what you think Jack let's do it sounds like a good thing yes all right now we're going to look for Christmas related stuff and for your last minute Christmas shopping I appreciate the fryer, that was a good one, and rode in with some typical Colin lunacy

Colin said and Jack here's how I suggest getting a rough number of listeners I agreed an online poll is a good way to collect data at something simple like did you listen to cooking issues episode 66 what did you what did you do your regular listen to cooking issues course he wouldn't answer and then and then here's the weird one what do you think of the hyper Advanced civilizations of the future will think when they Unearthed recordings of this track to Dave Arnold spews into the universe okay

let me hear something he also thinks it what we should do is I should sketch a picture of mustaches vegan face sign it and then offered as a prize to a random poll taker we should schedule a picture of the face she just made after hearing that yeah yes he said he says granted that price of the bias towards regular listen to Listen to know what a vegan faces I think even if you don't know you would got to know that a vegan face can't be a good thing right no offense to beacons out there, right

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