Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 56: Chris Young

broadcasting live from Roberta's in Bushwick Brooklyn you're listening to Heritage Radio Network. Com

every Tuesday from 12 to 12:45 live from Roberto's Pizzeria in Bushwick Brooklyn calling all of your questions cooking corn on cooking check or not. Related to 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 currently joining the studio as normal with a hammer Lopez the hammer cookies by Chris Young who's coming live from the main stage Last Tear yesterday at Starships this being be cooking issues so he did his main stage demonstration at the international chefs Congress yesterday and he'll be here in a couple minutes is on the BQE right now caught in Brooklyn traffic is not from Brooklyn so I think he doesn't realize how awful it can be getting around Brooklyn sometimes when you need to get somewhere right in session right anyway make sure you know Chris Young one of the authors of the

make a cookbook modernist cuisine will be here and he will answer any of your modernist cuisine or a glider did you know that he's a glider pilot like an avid glider pilot like no catching thermals now that not liking a little paper airplane gliders like the ones that he flies in so he's not a glider pilot so if you have any questions about gliding or about anything else really I guess call any questions to 718-497-2128 but think about it for a couple minutes it's going to take him a couple minutes to get here but make sure you call in because that's going to be fun if we had our a fundraiser right yeah yeah sure the Museum of food and drink at a fundraiser at Ma peche restaurant which was I think an unqualified success in terms I think the people really had a good time yeah they had a really good time Mario Batali Mario Batali comes to the event and is was bidding like a lunatic in the auction I mean first of all

I wonder if you know this out there but one of my skills is to go completely off my rocker Bonkers lunatic during an auction situation where you would you agree that's where my skills or at least crazy I think I'm going to have as one of the auction items I'll do an auction for you is because I'm sure most people get a higher ticket out of there like auctioning off like a country or something like that I can definitely get that that money up there and there's how much that country's going to sell for as long as they give me the data on the country beforehand I need the data I need to get jazzed up I can get jazzed up about pretty much anything so long as I have the date of today show again

like us which we appreciate to make sure I will read the word for word you love to experiment with new cooking techniques and ingredients but hate to overspend 4 pounds of supplies and only a few grams are needed for application modernist Pantry has a solution they offer a wide range of modern ingredients in packages that make sense for the home cook or Enthusiast and most cost only around five bucks then you time money and storage space What are you looking for hydrocolloid pH modifiers or even meet blue you'll find it a modernist pantry and if you need something they don't carry just asked Chris Anderson and his team will be happy to sources for you with Worldwide shipping modernist pantry is your one-stop-shop for Innovative cooking ingredients pans with cooking issues $25 or more before next week's show will get a free bottle of pectinex ultra sp-l the miracle enzyme simply use the promo code ci56 when placing your order online at ww.w

modernist Pantry. Cam is there a modernist Pantry. Com today for all your modernist cooking needs his pretty good stronger than some of your previous reads the piece of equipment that I've never used before right I'm just saying it's hard for me to get enthused I can't make a claim for a piece of equipment that I've never used it like not in my nature so I can't do it you know what I mean but I don't mind showing out and selling stuff that you know that I know why I agree with it I know they make a good product right so that you know I don't know probably signs I like their circulator so I don't mind feeling for them before how am I going to sell it Jacquees you still mad at me about that

sorry no I'm not mad all right all right okay press that you've memorized seven of the ten digits in the phone number I don't have it memorized but I'm getting very very close I'm just missing the middle three digits and they were going to be good okay

you'll find it so I have a question in from about ticket payment you can see me by the way is the fish killing technique that we that we use it that we studied Japanese style and there's different levels because he really just need to finish killing but a we use in particular a technique called shrink a new key which means destroy the spine and the idea being that by destroying the spine of the fish you you you basically what happens if that's fine keep sending messages to the muscles even after you kill the brain and so those messages are getting sent to the muscles reduce the amount of ATP that's a veiled that idiot in the muscles because the muscles are using the ATP the faster you use that up the faster you go into rigor the faster you go into regular typically the harder you go into rigor mortis and fix my soul so strong that traction strong enough to actually damage the muscle so when it comes out of rigor if it if it goes into rigor very hard and very fast gets damaged gets mushy so if you're going to serve a a piece of fish a certain fish

can you do this thing spinal cord ablation she can u k u can I get a firmer textured fish so that's that's what we're talking about flavor and texture of fish caught on a rod and reel I'm going to the Gulf Coast next week and hope to catch king mackerel Red Fish Blue Fish and maybe some flounder and speckled trout by the time of fish has landed I would have been able to been struggling against the line for maybe as long as 10 minutes where is fuse 30 seconds big fish will be gassed and hauled up onto the fishing pier at that point the custom of the areas to whack it over the head and dispatch it then throw it in the cooler my question is to what extent can EKG May improve the outcome the fish will be stressed regardless of how it subsequently treated my plan would be to bring the fish to the police. Then either nice the brain or simply cut through the backbone blood vessels behind the head then cut the tail destroy the spinal column and then bleed and ice water and alternative would be to fillet a immediately if it cooler is too big for a whole fish fingers crossed

are there any downsides to cut in the fish into large chunks and destroy the spinal column in each then bleeding and ice water any procedural suggestions would be appreciated okay this is an excellent question Andy because one of the things I've always wondered on EtG May is the effect of post catch stress on on an animal obviously you want the animal to be as little stressed as rested as is humanly possible and that's not necessarily possible when you lime catch something I've had only one experience with line clot boat EKG made game fish in our Waters and that's in striped bass so I did I shoot with the Dave Chang offer his iPad application I don't know if it's out you're not and one of the production assistants there fishes off of Montauk regularly went out on a boat and got a line plot stripers and did he could be met with

spinal cord ablation on one and then basically you know whack over the head Gill cut throw in a cooler with the other and there was a definite difference in case that you could be met one being better having a better texture so that's only an end of one so it's very hard to know whether or not it in all cases in another words anytime you get the fish and you do the Kiki Gmail your increasingly quality as much as possible would you like there to be less stress as a thing as being caught sure but I think it's it's definitely getting you're definitely going to get some help at least in the very small amount of experience I've had with lime cod fish EKG May there was a there was a difference

and obviously the ones that are struggling 30 seconds are going to be the best also you know I would guess that the the bigger stronger faster stronger fish is the kind of more of a sector going to get no listen I really need you when you go to this is what I want you to do please and if you can do this for me I want you to catch to Blue Fish and I know you can't control it but I want you to catch to Blue Fish I want you to do EtG me on one and I want you to not do Itachi me on the other one and I wanted you to tell me whether there is a difference on Bluefish specifically the reason I mentioned in Blue Fish Blue Fish is wanted to texture and flavor can go off relatively quickly after it comes out of its killed and I want to know whether EKG Nick can help with it because it's also a fish that really isn't eating I don't think in Japan and so could be really in America and kind of tests on this post I love Luther some people don't like Bluefish I love blue fish have never been able to get a Bluefish so please please test that

now instead of whacking over the head after you got the fish and bring it over I would immediately I would spike its brain and the reason is this is that stops IT from flopping around and very easy to hit as opposed to trying to do a gill cut right you could hit over the head and then do the Gill cut but I think you're better off spiking the brain that fly kills it like this and takes away the stress and then you'd have an easier time getting to the spinal cord cut the spinal cord and a tail I'm trying to learn how to go through the head of the fish to get the spinal cord so you don't necessarily need to do the cut before you do the spinal cord ablation but I'm not not quite there yet that's how they do it so I would I would put it through the head first then do the two cuts put it through the spinal cord and when you get to the spinal cord if you've never done it before you can see the fish it'll do like a skinny as the needle goes down so you know exactly how far do needle is gone down and in for the fish that you know where you are now I would if the cooler is not big enough I think you're going to have some problems

here's why you don't want to cut open the fish cut it in pieces first you want the blood pumping basically you want the heart to help pump out the the the blood to really really really clean it out so if you can please don't chop it into pieces before you get it into the cooler maybe actually if you can get down to the water you can just leave it in the water where the fishes I don't know how high up the pier is whether you can get to the water another suggestion got it right there after you do the EKG May got it as you after you open it up bring up a stiff brush with you and then go under take your take your knife and go and cut along the membrane it's on the underside of the spine to expose and cut open the blood vessels that are running underneath the spinal column and scrub that underwater with a brush to get all of that goofy stuff out because that goes off as well I would pull the gills out immediately and then take it and ice it and put it in the thing I think that's going to be like over Maxim

quality what do you think that so and he also has a question on canning and pasteurization stupid question they said most candy recipes call for the seal jars be processed for 10 minutes and boiling or simmering water supposed to kill a Matthews and ensure safe product and the low temperature charts on the Block on the blog cooking issues which I realize you're dedicated toward meat and poultry I say that anything over 74 degrees Celsius is instantly safe do I need to process in a water bath for 10 minutes to achieve sterility or is a 10-minute cook more for textual reason

and it be I do not use enough pickling liquor in a couple of jars and subsequently not all of the pickled green beans are fully covered with a liquid is that a major problem okay

couple things going on here so if you're going to be okay

we're talking about pasteurization vs. sterility okay when your processing something in first of all if you're going to can an item if you want it achieve sterility right you have to you can't just boil in simmering water you have to sterilize that thing which means you have to pressure cook it using recognize scanning procedures and those canning procedures are based on I think what's in the what's in the can or what's in the jar and how big the jar is because you have to guarantee a certain temperature for a certain length of time at the center of your jar in order to kill any spores that are in there so there are certain bacteria in the one they're really worried about in Canning is botulism which which basically form spores and can't be boiled out with normal boiling you have to go well over the boiling temperature in actually sterilize

now the reason you can do canning at lower temperatures without a pressure cooker in certain situations is because you have enough acidity present in your product to or salt or combination of salt and acidity to ensure that no bottle ism is going to grow in there and if that's the case you just need to kill off some of the easier to kill bacteria that aren't Spore forming and all the spore-forming bacteria don't grow because of the very high salt content or very high acid content or both

so when you are boiling something or simmering it for 10 minutes and put your just ensuring you're getting to that high of a temperature that's not really a sterilization procedure so the question is really what are you trying to guard against you could you could cook for a longer. Of time at a lower temperature and kill everything that's in there from a vegetative standpoint and therefore get a different texture right but only if your product is inherently safe from a Spore standpoint America's very very very very very clear if you are going to sterile if you want to sterilize something and make a shelf stable product that you can leave on unrefrigerated shelf for an infinite length of time you have to either can it using a pressure canner using recognize procedures for pressure canning or you have to ensure that you have enough salt or acidity in that

can to ensure that no spores no Spore forming bacteria are going to grow after you do your initial kill step Spore or so and if you have that you can cook at a lower temperature for longer and basically effectively pasteurize the product but not sterilize it on the second part of the question where you worried about there not being enough cooking liquor in the area of pickling liquid in it that could conceivably be a problem if it doesn't diffuse in fast enough you could get possibly some growth of a product in the portion of the thing that uncovered it's very hard to say without knowing it first but be very careful when your canning to ensure that you're not going to grow botulism

taken place

we are

cooking issues 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 Chris Young is still on his way still caught on the BQE for those of you who don't know or I find neighborhoods over here sucks

Ray Jack it does especially flushing Ave sucks and that's kind of where it's close to where it's close to where we are Hollywood is getting off here sign basically solely for hipsters and the only train really that services this place is the L which of the Hipster line like it for like a week or something like that then you say they're going to do there's a there's a website that is the L train fucked. Com payday and the answer is pretty much yes yes but here's the real question do you need to get somewhere then the L train won't take you if you don't need to get there in a big hurry the L train will be fine I think it's pretty much pretty much as the other

yes you can take the day if you enjoy a 20 minute walk okay hello another a different Andrew right oh by the way and email that's why I was talking about that says how long do you want to raise the blue fish and or macro when you catch it I don't know if it's a really something you have to kind of a test I would die after you get it home I would take and I cut them into two fillets I would taste some right away and then I would like to keep it a day and then tested their I doubt it's going to take longer than a day that to be good we most people who eat blue fish they want you to eat it right right away I mean like if you never grew up fishing on Cape Cod Court you know you grew up on near Cape Cod in the Summers and people fish for you which would happen to me they will give you blue fish and put those considered a trash when I was growing up and they will tell you to eat it right away and strangely it's known as very oily fish and they would tell you it always Grill it always harborcenter time will be grilled I've never had a cook any other way on the cape and they would tell you to put mayonnaise on fish and

on the show before but they say doesn't make any damn sense to me at all makes no damn sense that you can say I know you don't think of is a Genesis early but some of the most interesting best Mac alive ever had with Saba Sushi which was basically macro that have been aged overnight wrapped in kombu like he fought like the chef us inside of a sucky Sun formed you know basically roll with a vinegar rice and the Macro Rabbit in combination overnight which was delicious so I think it's just you have to see I said to test if you can you're going to test if you're going to tell us how long the agent I said

and if you're not listening we're doing a radio test me to do something

oh yes she is condensing what she is doing work for the radio show people so I apologize okay hope that's okay I was wondering about the mechanics of cartouches and whether there is really a reason to use one over just putting a lid on I know we're talking about here a Cartouche is not cooking parlance not like in egyptology term and cooking parlance a Cartouche is a piece of parchment paper that you cut into a circle and then you cut a little circle in the middle so that it just fits into a pot and usually you're going to use that in when your brazing something you put that in and and or if you're cooking certain times you cooking vegetables you'll do that you put a little bit of water you know sugar and whatnot me a butter whatever it in your vegetables and you'll put like a Cartouche over it and cook it now

the theory of them is that it allows a certain amount of moisture to leave through the central hole in the in in the paper right kind of like a parachute let some of the steam out so you get a slow reduction without it getting a like it's not super fast kind of control reduction and also it keeps basically 100% humidity environment over the portions of the paper that are covered so you're not going to get on a raise item breast and you're not going to get a lot of drying out of the meat that is not directly centered over the whole right so is there a big difference between that and just putting a lid on I don't know you know I've never I've never really done the test I can tell you how many times at home I've made I made the Cartouche roughly zero Dawn the order of 0 is how many that mean it's not true I used to do it sometimes for that for the heck of it I just don't know that there's going to be that much benefit over

keeping the lid on

I have to run a side-by-side test and see whether it really controls the evaporation rate any better or whether or not it actually prevents kind of some surface drawing of the meat is usually when Chris makes it here from the BQE weekend we can ask him about you and if I put that on the list of things to talk to you about Cartouche cuz I'm sure that they study that because they did a bunch of in-depth studies of classic cooking techniques and you know they like to debunk the classic cooking techniques so we can actually get him going on on coffee as well get it get it get his motor going on comfy about the method you talked about some shows to go with using gelatin and meat glue to make noodles by the way to the Wylie Dufresne tricked one of the properties of gelatin as I'm sure you know is it's fantastic flavor release still the case in this application also is there any benefit in using this method over other Thermo irreversible gels for making noodles I guess

also they fry really well better than any other kind of hydrocolloid noodle I've had asked for the flavor release me and it seemed to me that they had a good flavor released because it's my recollection of it be gelatin anytime you use a gel you care about whether or not that Joe has a good flavor release so Princeton alginate gel doesn't break up in your mouth very well doesn't leak out a lot of fluid so is basically the worst for flavor release it's a flavor Thief it's you know it's kind of its alginates are the enemy of flavor which is why you either want a very thin or very soft alginate shell or you know a lot of swimming very very flavorful otherwise you're going to get a lot of flavor stepped out and that's the problem a lot of times with things like elephant things like gel and have very good flavor released because they leak a lot of moisture they break very easily in the mouth

and they and their uses very low concentration so they tend to mask play burlesque gelatin is kind of the gold star standard for flavor release for number of reasons it breaks very easily in the mouth liquid comes out and also had melted body temperature so when you eat it the gelatin literally melts in your mouth and turn back to a liquid flavor release doesn't get much better than that right in this scenario we're basically what we're doing is we're taking transport emanates meekly stirring it in with the gelatin D'Amico is cross-linking the gelatin so that the gelatin to no longer melt not only a body temperature but it will melt even deep fry temperatures so one of the things that gives gelatin it's great flavor release the fact that it melts in your mouth is not going to happen however it still breaks up very nice in your mouth almost like a pasta so is it going to have as good a flavor release as straight gelatin I would bet not but it you know it is going to have a

it does have a good flavor release and that's just from kind of me knowing that from eating it finally finally cuz he had the fourth question by the way when you when you guys write in you say finally make it to final question ask as many as you like but make the final one the last one to post an enzymatic peeling use a combination of two enzymes I used pectinex Ultra sp-l which is the one that they're selling a modernist pantry and pectinex smash XXL which was the first one of the enzymes really that I was using for breaking down pectin and when I wrote the post on peeling things with enzymes I used both have you found the pectinex smash XXL is not really necessary know what can you do it just with text next Ultra sp-l yes you can so I no longer bother sourcing pectinex smash XX

I find that if you just add a little bit more of the Titan X Ultra sp-l that works fine the reason I initially used both was the people at novozymes the enzyme person that novozymes said that the one that was most often be used to make an enzyme called peels on Whose only job at was was to break down the kind of membrane around citrus fruits and also the Albedo the white part in a citrus fruit right that's all that thing was built for pills on they stopped making pills are they stop making pills on and so what the enzyme specialist to novozymes said was why don't you use a mixture of Smash XXL and Ultra sp-l but then later it's just slightly more effective so I just use a little more of the one enzyme then you would have the two combined and it works fine we use about 4 grams per liter Ultra sp-l in our in our solutions to do are peeling

that's going to work fine

all right

we are joined in the studio by none other than Chris Young author of modernist cuisine

friend of a friend of mine friend of a friend of the cooking issues and are one of our West Coast buddies what's going on but not too much very frustrated with your traffic here in New York is not used to it not used to it I like that video and came in and Seattle everything's nice and traffic noise mimimimimi all right one question for you before I before I forget we have someone write in I don't know if you address in modernist cuisine calling all of your questions to Chris 718-497-2128 if someone saying you know cartouches you know where you cut the paper and then you cut a little hole in the center the paper and you put it in the pot so that it does kind of gently boils down any point in that supposed to live

not really one that I could possibly think of all you're going to do is slow down the evaporation keep it closer to the boiling point but no I don't really see any benefit to it over a lid to prevent any local so he have a very tall pot right and I'm stalking right out of my behind here but if you have a very tall pot and you have let's say that was my iPad and you have like a like it also Google or something like that and so your liquids not covering the thing you think it's going to get any dryer because of that because of the steam basically hitting that one section is not cover is really not going to make a difference you can have like a local deficit of humidity they're mean and I don't know that's the only if I don't see it in the oven I can see there being a bit of an argument for using one in a Brazen an oven on a stove top I don't see any benefit over a lid I think that's highly suspect that it's going to make a significant difference there but in an oven

you are going to slow down evaporation you're going to raise the wet-bulb temperature and you're going to get an effective hire braising temperature then if you left it uncovered as long as Chris is here let's debunk this sucker right now you are not creating any pressure in a pot by putting a lid on even a minut overpressure in your pot is many pounds of force on a large lid you are not not increasing the pressure to the extent that you're increasing the temperature on the inside of that pot what you are doing by preventing evaporation is getting your temperature actually up to the boil throughout rather than rather than allowing it to Abby basically the evaporative cooler soap experiment at home is taking oven with two Pyrex dishes

a shame Pyrex dish set your oven to 350 cover one Pyrex dish with aluminum foil tightly and then you know Channel it into it so that you know you're not getting much of operation off of it and then leave the other one open the one that's covered will boil the one that is not covered

Chris how was your main stage 4 how do you feel about it I didn't. Yes it was my second time this this was a bit interesting if we attempt to do a little more cooking this time in a little less of a dog and pony show. Which pretty well except for the fact that we were cut short by about 15 minutes yeah you know when you're doing a show that you set up from kind of far away is x amount to do and you know you're going to do a lot you don't want to get me to 15 minutes is a big deal no I had to cut a lot out we had to compress a lot of a lot of steps so luckily my colleague Kyle was able to keep up with me as I drop stuff but it was entertaining came complete with explosions happen apparently what happened in okay so might as well get into this so one of the things look

modernist cuisine cost five hundred bucks and and and I don't have nearly the kind of crap that you guys had some sure you get this not even more than I did this is stuff you need a lot of equipment blah blah blah blah but you've heard this bullshit many times I've certainly heard people assume that you need thousands of dollars worth of toys to do the stuff in my opinion is that if you if you don't have access to the toys seeing what other people can do with the toys helps you understand food in general even if you're only cooking with a stick over a fire that's just the way I feel about it but one of the demos at Chris did yesterday Starships was to do low temperature reductions without having to buy a rotovap so basically your ability to do low temperature reductions in a in a restaurant situation for under 500 bucks relatively effectively yes yes but that was the point is how do you how do you get on eBay a little goo

Boo and put together your own evaporative production system or vacuum reduction system system because you can't recover actually you know what then it's totally legal leaving to do portnet cuz you can't recover that's right you're not recovering any of the vapor so it's not a replacement for a road of that but it is fun to point out and just need a little thing you don't actually need a rotovap do what 80% of people do with it yeah yeah yeah although I know I am I am the the other section where I am almost always using the illegal distillate but in restaurants you can't because you know you can't you know endanger your liquor license is the main problem was he set up an aspirator pump get a nice one. That one's not a cheap one there's no reason for it to cost that much I saw them used on eBay for around five hundred but I didn't get into this yesterday but you don't even need that you can even buy the aspirating nozzles that screw on a on a

and just use the Venturi effect of Base to give you a vacuum and that's what thousands of chemistry labs around the country do is your shoot liquid past an orifice at High Velocity it carries basically the air with it and sucks a vacuum that you're limited in the in the vacuum that you can suck by basically by whatever the vapor pressure of water happens to be at the temperature that the water is so the most effective way to do this is to use ice water and so recirculating aspirator pumps are the way to go if you want to get the lowest stuff and if you don't believe in throwing water away like absurd amount of water by pitcher talking like gallons gallons and gallons and gallons now

I'm not going to tell you to go on the internet search for do-it-yourself meth labs and see how those guys use a flojet pump hooked up with PVC tubes to aspirators to build your own recirculating aspirator because I wouldn't Advocate that you go up and look up do-it-yourself meth lab if you wanted to you could go there and for about you quit at Home Depot you can get a good pump that'll do this for like 80 bucks 90 bucks and then just go buy a series you have to buy two or three aspirators put them in it in parallel to get a higher rate of pump down and you can do this all I'm not advocating it you can do it I'm not the not the mess I think that's what's coming across your day with I'm not entirely sure that they blow themselves up in their own lab like you start with like a people who are smart enough to do

basically right enough to build their own setups and so you know they have some good ideas and then buying some stuff at Home Depot not so phenolphthalein solution Bingo okay but what I was really interested in this set up and so basically it's just an Erlenmeyer flask with a sidearm a plug in it and let you know you could get away with you don't want it tonight at you so you can get away with you can get away with I guess you needed to stir you want to avoid the bumping that that sort of the side from Sterling to getting yourself a nice Vortex for greater surface area you will get it jumping all over the place if you were just to put it in a pot on a hot stove in my only problem with the with those stirring hot plates

is that

either they're not cheap you have to get him used you have to get them use but there was a I literally before my presentation yesterday Google eBay just to double-check and there was a huge number of them for around $100 and their dirt simple so there's not much that can break about them but just so you guys who haven't used one out there they are great not going to know that this man cave bars are like two bucks from McMaster-Carr., cole-parmer whatever the two bucks or nothing the one problem I have with them is that they're heat rate is very very slow so they will once they're stable they're good and ready to ready to rock but just know that when you turn one on don't expect it to get up to temperature instantly and they don't dump a lot of Watts quickly into your butt's not a problem you actually a good for you that's that's good design for a chemistry lab or stability of your temperature and accuracy is a lot more important than responsiveness so it can be frost

when you turn it on it takes 30 minutes. To get to stable temperature but what is that it's going to take a cook or a while to get used to the response is it really all that different than a French top me to French top you turn it on in the morning leave it on all day it doesn't change temperature Massillon if you used to that you just leave this thing on all day and know that it's hot and don't touch it that's a very good point and another point of always says it I wish more Cooks in the US were used to you friend stops because oh that's right I did my cookies with the Euros about them is that I think it's really interesting too cuz. You don't you don't adjust temperature by adjusting knobs you cook spatially so you know what kind of what you know you know what temperature your pots going to be based on where it is in space on the topic I think it's really great I think it's really interesting way to cook but again not something that I think most US cups are used to

I think we'll probably end up skipping that going to induction yeah I mean yeah magster is it a problem or can it be done I would think it could be done it might be a little bit of cleverness cuz you would need to you haven't you be trying to couple of magnetic field of the pot in the same time basically rotate that field to get your ear starts being so I imagine it could be done but it wouldn't be trivial about the explosion yesterday that he took the heater to show that it was still going to boil even though it wasn't being currently heated it because we were lowering the pressure or he was lowering the pressure in the Erlenmeyer using the aspirator and set it down eventually what happens is the aspirator starts getting the pressure down and the products are cooling and no longer boiling suck enough of the vacuum to inhale the cap it was on the flask into

Erlenmeyer flask and then injected liquid out of the Erlenmeyer into the air and it's kind of cool that those nice good 10 seconds and then what the hell just happened there and this is a couple things about this one I'm not going to insult a gas stove a Conair except to say that it doesn't work and it's useless so the only way you can make gastroback is by the way is it is a machine that you buy that has a very bad vacuum pump on it that then you agree with me on this it's a bad vacuum pump it's useless if you own a chamber vacuum bag true or false

I don't think there's a reason doing a gastro back. But if the gas real bad guys had instead of putting that vacuum pump on it put an ice pack on Ice fast run a spray pump now I think you have a good thanks of the point of a gas stove Act is your supposed to be able to do a Stein garden told us yesterday Jeffrey steingarten what to do things like jellies at lower temperature so if things don't caramelized and to do like a while he was very very much did vacuum trying for a long time so that you could get well and you can fry things that are very sweet that would burn it normal frying temperature so in the tropics in Thailand is. They'll do deep fried pineapple chips but not able to use their gastro back in that to think why we're both saying this isn't the a compelling technology right because and here's the kicker the gastro vac won't work for either of those two applications because anyone

that knows anything about vacuums and distillations will tell you in order to boil something off you need to either re condense it or your vacuum pump needs to be able to handle the vapor and it can't but Chris is aspirator pump on the other hand could do that because it can take as much water in as it wants it doesn't matter that is one of the worst Vapors and it does not care that's why we use them in chem Labs that show any time soon I think this would be a good solution to do kind of lower temperature jelly if you want to reduce citrus juices or anything that has a real delicate Aroma and flavor that would change with any high temperature boiling this is the way to go to a qualified sums up how much a break and come back for another segment with Chris Young

I need some dick fat

hello and welcome back to cooking issues call your questions into nastasha what's the number for 97212 8 Adam lazaruk wrote a question before and apparently there was a typo he wants everyone out there an internet land to know that he does not recommend cooking a ribeye think at 134 8 hours he knows that that's not long enough she doesn't want anyone to have that 130 f for 8 hours attached to his name in any way to the Alaqua restaurant where he works in Philly and we hope to get out to the next time we're in Philly so if anyone out there listening he knows better that's a nice guy and one more little note if I can get back to it is


I also mentioned before you got here that you were glider pilot

I want to talk about some stuff here working with I mean look everybody who's turns into our show nose modernist cuisine I feel like you know if you don't know I would be shocked if there's even one person who can hear my voice right now that doesn't already know about Madras Cuisine because if you don't know it if you are the one person who was suddenly born and got interested in tech technical cooking and this is the first thing you've ever heard about it and go Google modernist cuisine but let's talk about some stuff you're working on after the book one of the things I was interested you were telling me you were you are working on a project on milk and Africa you want to talk about that can talk a little bit about that so we did The cookbook at Nathan's day job which is at running a company called intellectual Ventures which simply put it's an invention company and so the cookbook project was just one of many odd

are you going out we had anti-malaria projects involving laser shooting mosquitoes down that was going on right in front of the kitchen light single laser it's cool yeah so the end of the book projects and some I'm kind of a technical food guy if I would help out on another project that was going on the lab which was basically improving the milk situation in sub-Saharan Africa politically Kenya and Uganda this is a Gates Foundation sponsored project and we take it for granted here in this country that we can get milk in the farm it can be shipped it can be pasteurized and it can be kept cold shiffrin distributed we get this very fresh milk supply but in fact that's a very recent technology even in this country it's less than about 60 years old that we were alive we done that and before that we did all sorts of crazy wacky stuff like putting formaldehyde in milk to try to eke out a little bit more shelf life because we didn't have a reliable cold-chain delicious yeah real tasty stuff so

Africa turns out shipping things in keeping them cold really difficult reliable coaching non-existent and so by some estimates 50% of the milk that the small hole Dairy Farmers produce spoils before it can be sold incidentally it turns out that 50% they would need to increase the amount of milk sold by about doubling it to basically break the poverty trap and most milk produced in sub-Saharan Africa is by small hole Dairy Farmers who have two maybe three cows and they're not able to sell their milk before it spoils and and then even then are they don't capture a lot of the value of the dairy Traders do Hooter theoretically all of the milk in Kenya is supposed to be passed right in reality 80% of the milk is purchased and sold them things consume raw connection is not strictly true because people don't drink raw milk they would all be dropping like flies because it is basically diluted shit

I mean did the backyard concert fantastically any mind-boggling numbers of over a hundred million Colony forming units per per milliliter so everyone boils the bejesus out of their mouth is a result of this turns out they like the flavor of boiled milk where you and I might go all that's a little kind of sweet tasting not to not to my liking we're used to fresh milk well the Insight that I had was basically why don't we if they like the flavor of boiled milk why are we putting all this effort into cooling it down why don't we basically collect the milk bring it up to sous-vide temperatures pasteurization temperature because that's very easy to do in Africa and then hold it hot for many days at a time until it's sold purchased hot and it can be used within several hours here's the thing right

boiling energy-intensive especially if taken from coal rights of the cool down and then boil energy-intensive heating it up two notches High a temperature but keeping it there not is energy intensive and it's actually been more than that because what happens today as they transport the milk it's chill down then it's heated up again then it still down again you have all these Heating and Cooling cycles and then the problem is you pasteurize it now has to be kept cold to be shipped around and that's the real Falling Down is it forget even the total energy consumption it's just not possible to ship it around cold but if you have a very well insulated container very easy to ship it around hot and so now you don't have the Temptation that the current Raiders have let me put formaldehyde and then let me put hydrogen peroxide in there to try to prevent my inventory from spoiling before I can sell it off to how long can you wear we're actually working at find out if you can hold indefinitely from a microbiological stamp that's going to be very subjective to me at three days that's the upper limit for the consumer there

well we're doing sensory studies right now to figure it looks like it one and two days almost everyone thinks the milk's fine it three days maybe 10% of people don't it's going to fall off by some amount until probably the price your mail commands falls off over a number of days to the flavor profile even though they're going to boil it when they get it yes is different if it's been held hot for longer than about three days even though it's a very wet system over that duration time you get some iron reaction so you actually get some caramel color for reading some of those flavors you know the milk yes you've destroyed some of the micronutrients but in fact in Africa the macronutrients is like give a shit about her saying in this also it's getting heat exchangers that don't follow up in the field cuz you want this to be as simple as possible for the farmers and it has to be less than $200 W Bible product we're very close we're expecting to be doing pilot studies in Jan

when can you rent out there cuz it's another thing I hate is you know Chris has been involved in High-Tech high tech cooking for a long time they say you know the stuff you think about never has any kind of impact and it is true that you know tend to focus in the book focuses on things that are at a high-end consumer but turning now the same as the same thought process it's like hear the Givens here's what we're trying to achieve right here at the problem here are the Givens what can we do with a soda same kind of creative notion that can be applied to this kind of the problem and I think what's you know what's different about you know at least my impression was one of the things is different about what Chris is doing here with the Gates Foundation right and and intellectual ventures in the Gates Foundation

is that starts from a science perspective but more importantly from a cook what tastes good how can we make this milk taste of the way that these guys want the milk to taste not how do I want the milk to taste or not like how do I just make it safe how do I make milk that these guys want to drink that also is economically viable for them and and and and we'll also will also be safe but the safety has to go with the it tastes good to them it's very funny. Because in a lot of situations people come in from the west and while they want to force of Western technology Western Viewpoint of them but if they don't like the flavor of are pasteurized milk is too bland of them wears we like that planet they don't like homogenized milk at all it's too lean tasting they want that rich full fat taste you get of of the Raw on homogenize cream and so everyone who's looked this problem for is trying to say well here's how we do it in the west-world let us show you how it's done and we took a slightly different attitude of saying

well that's not what they like anyway so why don't we just try to figure out how to give them what they like and we just have this problem of preventing to the milk to spoil you could do it cold but why not too hot so what percentage do you think now of milk in Kenya just it's on sale because it was bad but we think about 50% of the milk is lost to spoilage I think you said that before but I just want to say it again 50% number is that we beat Rota beam

hundreds of millions close to billions of leaders probably anyway and so that's how many over the broader sub-Saharan Africa and if you if you remember so it's 50% of the milk is going bad right now and it's on salable about the number it would take yield wise. Double the current yield i e not losing at 50% to get those Farmers out of the poverty line so you're talkin this gets them to that place where they're no longer at the probably like this is part of a much broader initiatives At The Gates Foundation has funded called the East African Dairy development in the ideas that milk is a major product for people it's a major source of nutrition that's a source of of actually drinkable water and so we're hoping that this is one step and basically really solving some of the problems over there small differences may have a big impact so doing good work at Laser thing as a mosquito is actually working or no

like Ronald Reagan's anti-missile Star Wars thing at just shrunk by a couple of this magnitude play around the village reduce the mosquito population by significant amount you can have a profound impact on how quickly malaria transmitted so we decided to start shooting the lasers out of the sky with a laser

yes crazy I like that it's Looney Looney Tunes but it would work so here's what's going to happen I'm going to read a comment on Candy about nastasha and Chris is going to comment on that and while I'm doing this I want him to think of something in cooking that he hates and will and was something he hates and cooking right on red orange and yellow candy being crap candy flavors artificial Cherry is not mine is a vile Abomination and Sully's cherries very name I mean come on if you can mostly like a delicious fresh cherry don't use it at all as for oranges and lemons they're just boring with the Fantastic flavors of flavor house is producing candy manufacturers they have no excuse to keep using these crap flavors still the worst candy flavor of all time is popcorn Jelly Beans I can force myself to eat other distasteful flavors like artificial cherry and turn increase my appreciation for the great flavors of Jelly Belly popcorn

straight in the trash

we have a call I just really think about what he hates and caller you made it in just under the wire my name is it better to put the egg in when the water is so cold or to drop it in one spot I'm going to have what I think he thinks there's a Piranhaconda I like putting it in cold because the egg doesn't tend to get the thermal shock and it doesn't tend to split on you but it becomes a lot more difficult to time it just right cuz how long is it going to take that pot of water to get warm and I read studies it say it's harder to peel if you go from cold versus if you go in straight hot but here's my thing are you timing your eggs very very rigorously know I kind of just leave it and how they're doing is is they are they're getting along

large pot of water boiling and their plunging enough eggs in there that the temperature never really drives appreciably below the boil and therefore therefore assuming you use the same size eggs all the time you can get a very accurate temperature if all you're concerned with is getting a hard boiled egg and not turning green on the outside of the yolk then I would just bring it to just below the boil leave it covered let it go back to cold it will get what do you think I think that's fine I'm going to throw in one tip here if you have a hard time feeling your if your hard-boiled eggs get yourself a blowtorch what is way easier after it's pulled out to dry after you just go around basically hitting the surface of the blow torch for an intense pulse of heat not really enough to cook it but that she'll will come way much more easily really nice well thanks for the call Chris

turn to take us on out of this give me something you hate I hate I hate the label and I hate the parlor tricks that tend to come with it. About 10 years I've been associated with this kind of cooking and I will go into restaurants to see lots of phones lots of gels and done well these can be wonderful they can be exciting and they should exist but first and foremost it has to be good cooking and I'm getting tired of going into restaurants where people figure out who I am and all of a sudden the gel start come flying out so I despised that stop nice nice and have you ever met someone who calls themselves a molecular cook who's working respect

don't use Molecular Gastronomy thanks Chris Young this is been cooking issues

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I don't know

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