Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 48: Sugar, Manatees, and Meat

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new shoes from 12 to 12:45 nastasha has been held up today late I think she has fallen victim to our fabulous fabulous L train I just got a text that said everything L train train yeah so it's not too Far Cry 4 who is that band shoots he shoots he Groove that had the approval L train song the heck were they thinking heard of such a thing what's it called you know our interest song think Jackson's I'm unable to remember the telephone number here can you give it to him 718-497-2128

that is 718-497-2128 calling with all of your live cooking or non cooking related questions technical or not okay start with an email to us beforehand this one comes from okay last name is p e t h o with an umlaut I'm going to assume that's pronounce Petter but I don't know Joseph and Corby kummer our friend from from the Atlantic Monthly senior food editor there an article we'll talk about it decomposes and if there is a time temperature relationship associated with sugar my question and this is Joseph question Corby just was like hey whatsup my question is it does that mean that sous-vide caramel can be created any thoughts on this as for me I will try some experiments soon

okay so you fill everyone in there's a bunch of research it's been produced recently by a group of people mainly out of universe University of Illinois showing that sugar does not actually melt in a traditional sense but rather melt and decomposes at the same time right so traditional material with a traditional melting point like a metal that you can take it from a solid to a liquid back to a solid back to liquid back to the solid back to liquid Bubba Bubba Bubba virtually ad infinitum night this has a traditional melting point my headphone cord so she can get into her customary seat right now we're up to full staff

sugar on the other hand write the research has shown that every time so is try to figure out what the melting point of table sugar is sucrose they've noticed that it's been widely varying over the literature and these guys I did a study basically showing that there is no single melting point that basically it starts to decompose and and that basically ships when it melts so that how fast do you heat it changes basically when it appears to melt and all the way up to in that they're using some extremely quickly where they can ramp up the temperature on the order of like five six hundred degrees Celsius per minute and still they're showing a a ship they have data that shows that Sugar starts to break down roughly at 120 degrees Celsius which is too hot for too hot for sous-vide but you're not at what would I forget what the temperature in the pressure cooker is but somewhere in that region she might be able to do something in in a pressure cooker I have gotten things to sugars to Brown in a pressure cooker overtime but at

20c at normal pressure you're talking about long long long long long long long long long time for it to 4 to start sugar to start breaking down of course you can get the temperature well above 120 C in a pressure cooker by basically just reducing the amount of water present anyway so Susie caramel know but very interesting research on sugar and it basically decomposing at the time that a same time that melts so not having a a a a a a a melting point for those of you that really give a Hoot and Holler about this look up investigation of heating rate dependency associated with the loss of crystalline structure and sucrose glucose and fructose using thermal analysis of pro 220cc I use the thermal analysis approach Parts 1 & 2 of this year along with their Blockbuster follow-up can the thermodynamic melting temperature of sucrose glucose and fructose be measured using rapid scanning differential scanning calorimetry so I was simply reading this morning to stash I can't tell you how excited I was to

all those papers from Steve writing on pressure cookers and discussion on salt on the plus side and get really hot so it's great for Browning I don't have to keep an eye on it when it's cooking still experimenting with it having fun with the results since I last spoke about electric pressure cookers Cuisinart sent me one of their electric pressure cookers it doesn't do Browning it is great in that is quiet doesn't release steam doesn't release kind of any extra moisture in the atmosphere but I was trying to run tests on her to see what the pressure is related were and indeed I wasn't even able to get 10 psi I was able to get roughly I think 9 PSI based on the temperature measurement with didn't quite make it to 140 I forgot to the actor

numbers were mine my next states he has nothing to do with the way that there are regulating the temperature based on the bottom there's a little spring that shows that the thing is in in their measuring the temperature at the bottom and that's how they're calculating what are you doing tonight actually measuring pressure as far as I can tell so my next step is to open up the Cuisinart and see whether there is a potentiometer or something in there that I can fuss with that'll change what the temperature set limit is if there is I'm going to adjust the temperature up to have it be at 15 psi and see what it cuz I really want my pressure cookers to be at 15 psi I run a lot of tests where we will check the taste of different things at different pressures and honestly what's 15 psi second ring is pretty optimal for things like stocks and also for the speed of cooking and for the modification of texture things like Meats so I sold more to work on that later but it does seem like a great piece of equipment I'm trying to figure out how to hack it now if any of you have had experience

Cuisinart pressure cooker. Please write in and I'll tell us how how to do it before I ruin the one that was sent me because I would like to use it eventually my house after I finish messing with it anyway thanks for sending it by the way if any of you have some cool equipment out there that you want us to be tan and look at send us some equipment to be tan and look at you have a phone so I can call you on the air

hi David Colin Hay very much only use fresh and I've used the basically the Red Dead hibiscus style stuff to do beverages you know first basically the the the acidity and the color they know there's a whole group of the Caribbean and also African beverages based on great I mean that there that you know that the acidity is very kind of a specific I haven't looked up what the acid is I think it's totally yeah I was going to say that yeah yeah it looks it's at least partially that and that's what gives it its similar kind of acid characteristics to something like rhubarb so

any of those either haven't had Sorel but have had rhubarb there have a similar sort of ceiling and its acidity so I would bet that there acid makeup is fairly similar that's it I love it as a drink I've had I haven't had good luck yet mixing it as an alcoholic drink out of the ones I really enjoyed have been more like a non-alcoholic drinks have you had any good luck with it as an alcoholic actually try to drink yet I just have some growing and have been cooking a lot rent acidic flavor when it's raw when you cook a group text you that's similar to like metals

but that really takes on is kind of cooked spinach flavor that kind of muddled there is like I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to connect with cheesecloth and get rid of all the fibrous matter to the group but you want to turn that the leftover fiber into something fluffy or do you want to turn the power of the Chalice tickets

you tried the kind of like you know go to raw food is staying where you like put a little oil and fall in the Saj it and like it if it's still it's still construction really like her based on a couple of different ideas and that if they're basically to destroy structure without cheap but it's not the same kind of structure destruction you get from cooking it's more akin to gas forced wilting is basically all those raw food cook vegetable things are basically forced wilting and shifting of osmotic pressure is how they work but it when you're cooking something you're actually cooking and breaking down you know the The Pact Inns and all of those things what's an actually a different thing and I wouldn't think

you can get around the change in flavor but what you could do if you if you like the cook spinach flavor in addition to the fresh flavor you can do what I always do for blueberry things which is like mixed some fresh back with the cooked you know what I mean so I wear it say whatever I'm working with blueberries like blueberry pies and blueberry Tarts I'll have my cook blueberry compote and then I'll also always put fresh blueberries back in because I really like the brightness of a fresh blueberry but I also like the texture of the cook blueberry group in a pilot's say so you might think that would work or no need to try to do is try to get some of the they like the Hibiscus although it's red bright red you know it like that like and then make a t of that because even though it's dried and then he didn't eat it's pretty bright and then you could

make some of that mixture back in and get some of that brightness back

and for what

Turn on things

in green vegetables for the oxidizing or like what's going on that really changes the flavor I don't really know what to change in flavor is described you aw though I will remember to ask Maggie that but most of those green things if you remove their characteristic top notes and aromatics have a very similar to cook spinach smell so when you wrote when you do rotary evaporation on basil and you blend it and then after everything is sucked off you get this kind of cooked spinach snow and that is that something that McGee knows exactly what it is and it's a couple of compounds that I should remember but I can't I can't for the life of me remember what they are but a couple of compounds that give that specific smell in all those green things have it in it I'm going to try to remember and the next time for next time I'll try and I'll try and bust back and what it is

sat to get around by doing it in the vacuum or having some kind of shielding gas for the brownies cause usually if it's turning dark there's a bunch of things going on is enzymatic Browning so if you cook it quickly enough if you blanch it whole without breaking it you should be able to catch some of the green color then there's you know there's other things like the chlorophyll can get eventually broken down cooking long time that's going to go out of traps is a bunch of different color kind of changes that can happen when you're doing I have to look specifically what you have to kind of see what's going on but I wish I could just as you can remind me to ask mechanic said yes even forgetting as we speak right now she's now she's using her texting for good thank you all right cuz I got to go back to 4 second to Steve because Steve had his question about the pressure cooking right and so he then says this thing about salt

Steve also the question says I have a question about salt and bitterness what is happening to the bitter flavor when you add salt to a grapefruit for example is it blocking the bitterness or destroying compounds and then he basically does with tonic water and soda tonic water remove the bitterness or change the bitterness and then freshening up coffee I either is bad in a pinch of salt would love to know exactly what's happening I don't know that is known for certain there is some papers that have been written about it the one that I read or is the influence of sodium salts on binary mixtures a bitter taste in compounds bike East 2004 and they seem to indicate he he she seemed to indicate that lets all is actually acting the base of the ionic strength of salt is the evil that the fact that it's charge is acting on at the side of your bitter receptors and altering how you perceive a bitter literally altering how your taste buds perceived bitterness and the argument one of the arguments there is a study that was done awhile ago where they put if they see if you mix salt and better together and put it on

tongue is less better than if in if you just add bitterness right but if you add bitterness to one side of your tongue and salt to the other you can still taste the bitterness basically and the thing they're showing us that you need to actually have the salt at the site where the bitter is being received that argument I don't think is actually true because I don't know that your tongue can't distinguish like a pattern of excitation other words like like if salt and bitterness are in the same area can modify even if it's not actually modifying your bitter receptors but these guys have an interesting study where they they say they tested a bunch of different bitter compounds and many of them were debittered slightly by salt and mixtures of them would be better buy salt but there's a couple of bitter compounds or one particular that came from the name of they checked it salt did not affect and so because it was able to affect certain bitter compounds and not others they're saying that is not a cognitive I eat like a brain integration effect on salt modifying bitterness rather it is

a modification of how the bitter molecules are being perceived at The Taste receptor sites I still don't think of this is necessarily like slam dunk as an argument of what's going on because it could be that step that certain bitter receptors are more apt to be cognitively interpreted along with salt as being less bitter as opposed to others but I don't know I haven't really read it thoroughly but it's these guys seem to say that that the salt is actually modifying the way your taste receptors taste the bitterness but I'm willing to hear arguments of other people break we lay down on the L train but yeah I'll be out there yeah yeah

Mister negative

Temple Run

did the cops let go get me some



yeah shooty Groove shoots a Groove much like the actual L train taking forever to get to the destination get to the den chorus Guy seriously seriously course they would like the L train anyway you know by the way in case you weren't there before calling your life questions to 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 all right now turn on vacuum fixed your day I'm curious about using sous-vide for raw fish portions for storage I've heard it is not a good idea I don't know if I'm home but we'll talk about that in a minute and a practice I found the fish can develop all flavor after a few days I'm sure it has a lot to do with fresh and so the fish before packaging I bought fish from Japan has been packed in plastic and it was impeccable but it's probably been packing immediately after it was killed and prepped just wondering if you have any specific information on storing fish sous-vide do's and don'ts and enjoy the program

thank you and another question came in that I'm going to just smack these together because they're very similar John rights and also that vac fish and he says hello I have a quick question I'd like to pitch for tomorrow show I recently purchased an immersion circulator good call this and this weekend I would like to cook a couple of monkfish Lawrence I don't have a cry of a cat and I haven't tried this before but from what I've heard monkfish has good fish for low temperature cooking my plan is to wrap the fish in plastic and then pop it in the ziplock bag am I at a significant disadvantage versus vacuum sealing here and I was hoping to get a suggestion for an appropriate time and temperature thanks so much okay I'm start with John no John you are not a disadvantage in fact in some ways you're at an advantage I find that in test I've run where we vacuum fish if you put too much of a vacuum on fish you can affect the texture so I really like fish cooked either wrapped in plastic or just directly and Ziploc bags with oil ice presume you're wrapping it to preserve the shape of it and then put it if you wrap it in plastic wrap

Apple layers of plastic wrap and you can go on www. Cooking issues. Com low temperature primer and check the ways of packing without a vacuum machine and you can see a rolling technique you don't need the zip lock at all after you can cook it directly into plastic wrap or cooking in a ziplock is a good technique so in some ways I think you're at an advantage for that because you're not going to destroy the texture by over vacuuming it I asked four times and temperatures are kind of all over the map I haven't personally cook much for monkfish so I can't tell you but I like the one Roca style technique which is also I think put out by some other people is they use a 62 degrees Celsius is 140 degree water bath for 12 to 15 minutes and this is delta-t temperature they're not trying to cook it all the way through that temperature there shooting apparently for a core temperature of about 48 degrees Celsius which is pretty low another person Cooks at about 57 degrees Celsius or 35

30 minutes that's not delta-t in a significantly higher that's that's what I do like striped bass at so that took a really firm tasting in another person really enjoyed 48° C for 1 hour which seems to me not the way I would go like I don't think I would like it quite that low the monkfish I think I probably like a higher closer in the 50s but I could be I could be wrong and I wouldn't have to cook monkfish for a full hour just because I think it might start breaking down I don't know what the enzymes are like with a lot of fish have enzymes in the break them down if you cook them for too long and make them mushy another note is that the one of the reasons temperature for fish can be so all over the map is a lot of fish go through basically two zones where they taste good a very low temperature range where you know it's kind of foggy and Trent almost translucent and one row can a lot of like in a new school people like that but a lot of people hate those fish cooked that way and another one slightly higher usually 54 Sam it's like 50 Celsius right there Santa Fe 50

altace in a lot a lot of people like that so I can be kind of confusing but I had to do it and I only had one shot I would probably do the 60 degrees Celsius for about 15 minutes obviously depends on how big around the the thing is small. Probably for a fairly thin portion okay back to the question of fish in a vacuum bag very Reckless morning modified atmosphere packaging of Phila did rainbow trout buy a begonia Jimenez in 2002 out of Brazil and basically the story is that the big flaw of her test by the way I'm assuming begonia woman right yeah yeah by the way anyways by the floor because she doesn't give her vacuum procedure she just says what equipment she back into with and all of you out there should know that how you apply the vacuum is vitally important to a to texture of the paper also how much oxygen you were

basically saying that indeed there is spoilage in the vacuum bag there's microbial growth even a real big stuff do the residual oxygen left in it you don't already do exactly what they said about the sensory quality of different fish she did / rap that's French for plastic wrap I guess Portuguese for plastic wrapping vacuum packaging and Matt modified atmosphere packaging where they actually introduce things like CO2 that actually prevent bacteria from growing rather than just removing their oxygen supply okay although the vacuum packaging kept levels of t-bars basically had some BS acronym for oxidation because there's no oxidation cuz there's less oxygen than modified atmosphere packaging it gave rise to a faster loss of fresh fish flavor Wings in the freaking tongue twister faster loss of fresh fish flavor intensity along with the deterioration of the visual aspect of the filet so basically her point is that that you still

play some of the fresh flavor of fish if it's too hard for a long time in vacuum bags but don't starve fish for a fish at the fish cooked fish eat the fish you know I've always said that one of the problems people have is they try to get this extended shelf-life in her like a can I buy the fish today and then like you know cooking next year and still okay no no no I mean you can get some extension of a shelf life it's true but when you're shooting for maximum quality don't do it don't do it all right Derrick right in with an interesting question that I was going to say right out and I don't know the answer to cookies and creaming hello everyone have a quick question most cookie recipes when you cream the fat usually butter and sugar together and that's you know for those who have never cleaned anything I mean I'm serving the most of our listeners of cream something before but you know you take your your your KitchenAid brand stand mixer or anyting actually whenever you want and you beat the hardball

can you sugar to get using it for like my mom how you going to beat are in the sugar and butter with with a fork if anyone out there please send me a video where you effectively cream butter and sugar with 1/4 The Impossibles that are The Incredibles that kid - who's like the fastest kid in the world like maybe he could do it or like some sort of like bionic super person could effectively cream with a fork let me know you have met ukrainians before and you cannot cream with a fork I do you mean like some Like Biscuits maybe or type or no cookies

in freaking insane insane I'm going to go ahead and add the eggs in cookie recipes where you cream the fat usually butter and sugar together the recipe that instructs you to add egg before the flower I screwed up recently added egg halfway through that in the flower it did not seem to mess up my recipe what's the deal okay all right there the deal is usually add the eggs especially things like cakes because the eggs can a ditional leavening of additional air trapping while you're beating a man is supposed to the flower which I guess they figured doesn't Sochi idea of generating all of your air bubbles early in the process so first screaming to create volume then adding eggs usually wanted a time to increase the volume in the evening to mix to get a light fluffy aerated mixture before you add your flower and then bake it right book that's the reason now

if a recipe doesn't need a lot of extra aeration or like you don't want to Mary Did You Know What I Mean you get to choose the texture based on how you how you do it you can go from basically like dance like fudge Master General brownie by melting your butter all the way up to creaming and then beating Oregon prop then fold in your flower near you can do a wide range of textures based on on your creaming enter a guiding procedure so I'm assuming that with your recipe you add the egg is going to matter like even like a spec unless you're beating it enough after you add the egg to aerate it more you know what I'm saying that makes sense. Flower but on something like a cookie where they're so little moisture anyway it's not like you're going to develop gluten you can hit it hard enough to get all of the flower in to the recipe without developing gluten so I think it really is not going to matter much unless you

Conifer narration affect which I don't think is going to be a big deal in many cookies what do you think I think you're right evap purge by the way a classmate are former intern Tim like I had ta pay me whatever he was like tall Dude Looks looks kind of Amish although he isn't and like and like made fireworks Tim anyway hello Tim if you're listening to craft restaurant I have an idea and I'm wondering how to execute it a cold is there a way to take a tank of liquid nitrogen a small tank so this portable like a blowtorch and figure out a way to projected into a small stream much like a blowtorch it'll be cool to create Frozen shells around things you have experienced or something like

okay I do not have experienced although there are people that do have experience what you want to look up something called a brymill can b r y m a i l l and they're used by dermatologists to freeze warts on people it's a technique all at cryosurgery or anything like that it's basically it looks like a little oil gun but it's a little liquid nitrogen canister and you get different nozzles and it sprays small amounts of liquid nitrogen to freeze a small surface areas similar technique was used by the artist saxena Juan Mari arzak in the end all where they were basically freezing spots on plates so that they would have a hot plate they would freeze one spot on the plate and put like an ice cream on that and a hot thing on the rest of the plate so that they you have a nice hot plate for your whatever and then a cold section for your ice cream unlike Savory ice creams plated out they were also using it to inject into chocolate to make these like weird chocolate balloon shapes if you want it some serious chilling though these are like Spa

chillers you going to want to get something called a snowhorn snowing hard and what they are facing do you hook them up to a CO2 tank and they just spray out like a like a fog of like hyper cold CO2 and that that's used for kind of flash freezing things look up snowhorn but I think they might be loud in her know I don't have one to help people with their words when you're in strapped for cash or sperm bank or something and so he and it was wiped out his and wiped out his his sperm because his bone marrow transplant and so they had to save his sperm in liquid nitrogen and he like like me has a problem with like a note and attention to things like bills so they kept on sending him messages we're going to thaw out your sperm we're going to kill your your future offspring

if you don't pay and he didn't pay any got the note like beat like eat like you got a stack of them all at once and you open them and like the last one was like all right. This is it we're going to do it and it was like it was like a dude like you like saying they're going to do it on a Friday and he weather on Saturday and you let alone so you ran in person on Monday and he paid his his back sperm storage fees and has a two lovely children now

Kevin from Virginia Beach rights in I heard on this past week show that that you and I know Sasha you and I and McGee were having troubles riding in the rain I've used right in the rain and I felt all righty by The Rite Rite in the rain products pretty extensively I can vouch they work as advertised as forgetting your labels to stick to the wet fruit good luck you know Kevin you are exactly right I have Rite in the rain lab notebooks I've been using them for a while Wiley Des Plaines been using them in the kitchen for a while he actually gave me some of the key got him before I did and he likes likes it give them to his cooks and then throw them in the stock pot to make fun of them because they don't get all messed up they do make great products and I actually had one but it was packing my freaking bag wasn't with me in the place and plus Tasha write the note and she refuses to carry a Rite in the rain product around

Rite in the rain stop what you're meant to be cooking notebooks for your kitchen right and she's like okay can I write this this paper out and use it a Post-It note in chest what happened Who you gonna believe I believe I believe I'm not going to I'm not going to get him into it these days by Kevin wants to know whether or not there are we have any recommendations for must visit food enthusiasts destination similar to the fruit and spice Park Kevin I'm going to get back to that but Roth wind rights in on the same question and he says that in the most recent issues with cooking issues radio broadcast Dave Ramsey about the need for weatherproof fruit labeling technology and it goes I believe that this technology already exists small portable

show me devices are used to label Road and Tails and laboratory settings for animal identification sometime just to make him look like badasses the labels are essentially permanent label use Quick to perform if 200 hour in miles per hour can be achieved imagine number of mangoes 1/2 tattoo true story true story and Orchard friendly battery a battery operated systems are available there fruit compatibility as suggested by the fact that thick skin even waxy fruits are often uses standings for Animals during operator training one of the many examples of this equipment can be found at animal happy inking keep up the good work and by the way that was addressed to Dear Miss Hammer which I enjoy anyway Roth I Love This suggestion and you got me thinking about a bunch of different things here the one that you pointed to is the 80s - 3 General Road and tattoo system the problem with it is it about three grand and egg like cursory review of eBay led me to believe that they're not widely available on the eBay maybe I don't know how to add a different combinations

Rodan & Tattoos other than tattoos over rodents don't like show up so much on eBay so I don't know whether or not I'm I'm searching it around but I did a quick search and you can buy a AA battery operated tattoo pain but you can spend as much as $150 or $200 on one that's professional but they make one called like rap rabbit rabbit rabbit it took like that rabbit it like a tattoo pain it's battery operated right and it's got like some sort of like a whole lifetime guarantee I haven't seen how waterproof it is right but it's just like your you take a AAA Battery put a little taken it take it out in the Orchard and you can do this for a living I should ask them like use one day you're supposed to practice on something like a banana right so if we got an ink that didn't bleed too much into the fruit man sent me these I think like some version of like you know India ink or something something nice black and food break a human grade

has a better or worse than food break human Greg I don't know anyway I think it's like 40 bucks or some like that anyway thank you so much for putting us on his correct line of thinking because I'm definitely not going to spend $3,000 to tattoo my fruit but unless them and gives you one. Someone gives me like $3,000 fruit tattoo and I'm going to say yes then a knock at turn that down right we had last week that was interesting was I spent a good number of minutes insulting insulting like Sciences ability to recreate meet buy a 3D printing Technologies and literally the day after that right the day after that mustache and I had a meeting with a person who helped in the co-founder of a company

called organovo organovo right organovo and give you some background is they can do things like grow blood vessels pull blood vessels and so most of the meat printing technology what they do is they build a scaffold collagen and then let meat cells grow into that scaffold and that is to me as far as food preparation gross but it's not going to make good food good meat substitute that's basically what I was ranting against and also so these guys actually print undifferentiated or partially differentiated cells get them to bind together they differentiate and they turn into actual organs like blood vessels that they can Graft in if you need a coronary artery transplant website

sounds like holy crap I had no idea you could do this you know they could do that I wasn't totally shot crazy crazy they can do is they also make human meat but tissue not to eat although they could they make it because drug companies want a human tissue to test out drugs on and so it's very it's me a much better than using mice tissue or Pig tissue and you don't worry no humans killed by anyway and so it wasn't as well what do you think about the idea that we can print meat and he's like I can print out actual muscles in like shape and the way the muscles are made with fat marbling and all that I have my doubts whether it's possible but if it's possible it is clearly the closest that anyone has ever even attempted to get to actually print out something that I would consider because I said last week most meat substitutes it's all about like reproducing some sort of overcooked horrible like mono textual pablum crap

these guys are saying they can actually do it and then you know and without telling the animal so you could you know if they could get I don't understand scientifically how that they would do things like a correct for what the Animal Aid or the different enzyme makeup that is in a Cell based on how long it's been in the NFL because it said like using a pig to make him older pigs have better have better enzyme makeups for making ham and other than muscle breaks down differently so handsome and older Pig not just because of fat content or because myoglobin there any of those things but simply because of the fact that it's older is going to make a different ham than a younger younger pics are a how they're going to do things like that needed some complicated business so I'm actually possible to correct for but if they could then I get all we could all have manatees takes you know one of my goals is to have a cruelty-free manatee State because I told you about this right

I'm not advocating hurting manatees please please do not say that I'm advocating for humanities I'm not but in his book the unnatural history of the sea the author is named I forget basically said that we've actually been making animals go extinct for a long long time hasn't been in or just recently and one of his favorite examples of this thing called Steller's sea cow which was named after an Explorer stellar and it basically these guys are manatees near Manatee relatives and so there's this island in the Pacific where these manatees were just sitting eating kelp right help you help Forest cows grazing on kelp under the ocean and they're sitting there and it's like you don't get to Lagoon so that you can basically look down and see him and here's the messed up thing right no natural enemies for some reason this like ecological niche had developed and I believe it was like 16 or 17 hundreds when this is happening. I can't remember exactly and so here it is he sings sitting there herbivores

write fresh and no enemies and here they had one downfall they were delicious delicious two people said that the nothing tastes as good a shape in a venti salted meat for eat a month so who knows you know what I mean it's kind of like when raw food people say something delicious and they've only had raw food for a week so if it doesn't taste like literally awful it's awesome I mean so it's hard to tell but these guys are basically saying that these were the best animals in the world because I had no Predators you would like Harpoon one and then like the guy next to it be like what was that because you're not used to getting killed and so they didn't even run away so you can sit there and like you know kind of butcher them it will which is awful awful anyway so it's one of the it was made extinct in a matter of a few short decades because it was delicious but ever since that of course because I'm perverse my ideas man I wonder what those things tasted like so These Guys these guys can get you the cruelty free Manatee steak cooking issues

I don't know

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