Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 45: Pie

hi I'm Steve Jenkins I work for Fairway markets in the New York area and we are awfully proud to support Heritage Radio and we care so much about everything that goes on out here at your bird is in their Studio because they talk to people who are serious about food and that's what we are at Fairways were serious about food we just care very deeply about about you was a as a customer and how you cook and what you cook with and how you entertain and and that's why we love to support Heritage Radio because it is pretty much the same thing it's wanting to to find happiness through serious food and people who are serious about it and and care about learning everything there is to learn about it and that's that's

Kindred Spirits if it's something worth having in your kitchen you're going to find it at at Fairway and if there's somebody worth talking to about food you're going to find him in on Heritage Radio when we will be supporting you guys for a long long time at fairly I'm your personal grocer Steve Jenkins Fairway Market

radio network every Tuesday from about 12 to 12:45 questions cooking or non cooking or technical related to 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 sadly I'm not joined in the studio today by Anastasia the hammer Lopez because she is on vacation in Rhode Island

how do you say sadly I'm not in there very gorgeous first of all so white everyone thinks of the second sun on the beach even though I'm completely closed at a head to toe and ever I go to 1 L soda tests and I do like foraging for things on the beach in fact that's one of my favorite things to do so this is basically the only way you can get me to do anything as if I'm going to forage for food as a kid go around looking for a call Hogs and clams and mussels depending on on where I was cuz that's basically all I like about being outside is finding food what about you

you poor thing session at 4 so good foraging to be done on the shores as well as in the water close to the beach in Rhode Island that famous wild food writer may be the first big famous one here in in the in the US you'll Gibbons Road a specifically small manual for New England Seacoast foraging it's more for me but there's just a wealth of things you can eat on the on the beach from like Oreck which is like lambs quarters which is great for a salad or a version of sea beans or wild sea rocket which is out like a light while rocking like a regular but more succulent in like crunchy and also a little more bitter like mustard green but the stuff that grows wild along them

on the beach is crazy and depending on early but like beach plums along the beach and I think one of the reasons is because a lot of it you're not allowed to kind of mess with any more from you know it from a development standpoint so if you're in a place if not built up probably got a lot of that good stuff just lying around right

serviceberries yesterday I know nastasha is a buddies went and 4-H in Brooklyn apparently you said for serviceberries AKA there's a million different names from Chad berries and whatnot I've never actually had were they good

they're okay I mean it's it's exactly what they said it was like blueberry texture with a raspberry taste it made a pie and it was disgusting I messed up the crust and then the quest infiltrating the berry filling and it was just what did you what did you do for the crust

I use Crisco flour 3/4 cup of Crisco and cold water and salt

it it would enroll and when I picked it up it would crumble apart so I need a second one and then that one would it roll so that instead I took the ball and I put the ball in the center of the pie and then I spread the ball out with my fingers so that it made a sort of crust around it and then he insisted that there be a top crust and so I rolled out a top crust and then carefully placed it on top of crumbly and gross and then yeah and then that Chris broke into the filling and the other was cooking rats enough water everyone's petrified about using too much water and so they make a they make a one that's not bound if you use I can't really in my head calculate you know cut measures of flour to to Crisco enough a fat right and you Incorporated correctly into the flower base

add a little sugar could have colors it up really nicely an answer then you know you put the the icewater you don't really have to worry about it getting to the gluten development too much and getting tough as long as you are pretty quick about it I tend to never use Crisco and I don't stock it I think is freaking delicious is that if you know the hydrogenated lard is not so good but the hydrogenated lard is good for my a texture stamp when he was extremely soft whereas home rendered lard tend to have a solid fraction and a liquid fraction the liquid fraction just to lack liquid to really do it properly so you want to take them or solid fraction and if you use lard you want what you really really really really chilled really chilled but that gives kind of like a little like Savory note to pastries I think is really lacking in most modern pies that don't use lard butt

and then bring that even though the texture theoretically isn't quite as good using butter as using Crisco butter pie crust are freaking delicious mean there was insistent that I use Crisco plus the fact that it doesn't have any water in it the way that butter does kind of make it have that kind of unique Crisco texture that some people really really like I don't think it's necessarily worth it I've never been a big fan I mean even prior to trans fat days me Crisco I thought was good for certain applications like certain frying applications Donuts you want a hydrogenated fat because once they pull down a donut fried in regular oil is going to taste in liquid fat liquid oil is going to taste really greasy with

something fried in in hydrogenated fat is going to taste more like a donut right in in liquid oil if you fry potato chips in a solid fat they taste not oily greasy and they leave like this like grease coating on your tongue when you eat them similar to what a donut might do but in a potato chip is considered extremely bad in fact that is the story behind the whole kind of alet number olestra wow that number of olestra basically there's a a technique they applied they can apply to any fat and it makes it so that you can no longer digestif at right and so this was heralded years ago as like this is going to make it so that you can eat unlimited quantities of fried foods and it's going to have the same effect on your waist line as if you ate everything steamed basically that was that was the deal

problems with it were one when you do this procedure you're no longer absorbing the fat but that those fat still tend to are the fat soluble vitamins also then tend not to be absorbed so you're lacking in fat-soluble vitamin tested one problem if it's a liquid fat right like if you were to do it to make olestra olive oil let's say I don't know how I'm going to put this in a way that's not gross but it basically runs through your system out your butt right and so that would lead to the phenomenon and there is no known as anal leakage right was what they called it right now similar phenomena by the way with this new new like 3 years ago product called Ally live spelled kind of weird but that's the diet pill that came out

the diet pill the base of you can eat and it stops you from absorbing fat and I tested it and this seemed kind of a thing happened you don't want to consume a lot of liquid fats when you're when you're on a lot I don't even know if they sell it anymore that stuff a lot anyway they were frying potato chips in liquid liquid oil-based olestra products and basically it just ran straight through the test subjects right and that's where I picked up the really bad bad bad press that if you ate this you're going to have all kinds of Neo gastrointestinal problems and it's going to let you know you're going to set yourself on spray and whatnot so the manufacturer Procter & Gamble whoever they basically we're like okay was Frito-Lay actually they

it's going to be a solid in your body and it's not just going to dribble through you like you're one long pipe you know what I'm saying so so then they started frying potato chips in solid olestra and they no longer had their underwear problem but no one like the taste of the potato chips right because you don't want solid fat you don't want your potato chips fried and so is that okay so what did they do they invented this new system this air curtain is hot air curtain where they would fry the potato chips and is solid olestra and then they would put on a conveyor and blast it with hot air and hot air wood wood wood the surface coating of the of fat right off the top of the chip so that when you ate it you wouldn't perceive as much the fact that have been privately South fat all right and it wouldn't leak anymore right but the problem was it you could always kind of tell if they've been fried in a solid fat and most people then assume that they could swear I could taste the list

doesn't taste good I can taste know you can't it's like in fact that they fried it in a solid fat is the problem if they had fried it in in a liquid you would never been able to taste the difference except for you know you have to change your clothes a bunch of me at one time I thought that I thought that was going to be the wave of the future and that there would be you know in the in the dining room of the future every chair would be its own chamber pot but that is not come to pass and instead we have we have shied away from that even as a guy Tsum that culturally we would Embrace anything that allowed us to one thing constantly without it having an effect on our system but for some reason they the bad press surrounding it still prevented us from from embracing wholeheartedly anyways

olestra and by the way my for very good account of Alaska you should read I Jeffrey steingarten first book The Man I always get it wrong I always confuse and I said like I said before our good friend the folk food writer you know renowned author television personality lunatic he wrote a book called the man who ate everything and I always confuse it with the Oliver Sacks book The Man Who mistook his wife for a hat and so I always liked him like the man who mistook his wife for someone who ate everything I'll wait for some reason I don't know why I confuse these two books together but I always do an article in that about an early by the way article on Alaska which I recommend that you go read but the other one of the other must read articles if there if there was such a thing in that book as a non must read article I don't know but one of them must read articles in that book

is on making pie crust and he basically goes through a million different pie crust and then ends up hanging out with Marion Cunningham who was the famous famous cookbook author and editor of the I believe of the more recent Fanny Farmer's it has been a long time since I've looked it up and basically learned how to make pie crust from her and extremely simple and I use the recipe now whenever I can which is you put an absurd amount of butter cut it up make sure the butter is pretty cold put it in the flower add to salt or whatever sugar you want a meeting with your fingers until it resembles like course crumbly crap like some things as big as peas and other things smaller stirring water does not to be crazy ice water make sure you have enough rope to bind together quickly form it into a dough roll it out without Much Ado try not to reroll it and go and that's like you know that's it you know what I mean next great next great

oh hell no I use my use my hands in a fork it's so simple that's the thing like everyone like you know that they have these recipes like when you're making puff pastry people use for instance the food processor to cut the cut the the butter end to get flakiness instead of having you make like you know that this the the the butter mixture folding over and rolling a bunch of times with pie crust there is never a reason to use any piece of mechanical equipment whatsoever like you notes get a bowl and put in the flour put in the I would say butter but I would say lard and then barring lard a mixture of lard and butter bar in a mixture of lard and butter butter barring that I don't know whatever the hell you have lying around your house but people because of Crisco and things like it that we no longer use lard because there was a big switch way but that's a whole separate story we'll get into that maybe later

and quickly with your fingers like rub it in Stein garden has a great description of it because if there's anything Stein Garden it is he's extremely anal about not just recording what you say but what you do that's why he likes to go into the kitchen and watch people cook

so if you ever cooked with him you'll get something over the over the phone or what knob here he wants to show up and examine everything you're doing and he'll ask you constantly why you're doing X why you're doing what I am doing readings that's because he knows that regardless of what you say right you almost always do something else or you really don't understand why you're doing what you're doing anyway and so he needs to basically Dakota and that's one of the reasons why he's been why you so interesting and why he's been so successful and rub your thumb over your fingers like like almost like you were snapping but across all your fingers but or like you were rubbing or like you were rubbing through your fingers like your fingers were the times of the comb or a fork and you're rubbing it through this rub it in and then just stare in the water with a fork gathered into a ball with your hand and you're good to go mean really it's that it's that freaking simple there's nothing simpler than making a good pie crust and yet there's no

there's a few things that cause as much anxiety among people secondly no offense to Anastasia's friend Pat here but is he is he is he unknown good cook

busy what known to be a cook cook then you should never listen to him about anything you should like you're okay

know then you should not listen to him it's like saying you know what my mom she's a really good doctor my mom knows how to cure you know X Y and Z your or my mom's a good surgeon so I'm going to listen to listen to me about how to chop someone's heart out really know you know what I mean it's like it's in the room with you then then follow the advice but if it if you know if it's just some you know if it if it's like you know my mom's a good cook lol you know so what are considering that there are always in my issue with you know magazines like The Cook's Illustrated or even sometimes when you know when we we know when we ride when I write your urges to say this is the ultimate X this is the ultimate why are the best blah blah blah in reality there are there a lot of things that are good done a bunch of different ways and the idea isn't to find the one best way but to have your way be coherent from beginning to

and and to produce a delicious product there many pads are many ways but so I've been blabbering on about the pie crust when we go to our first commercial break calling your questions to 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 cooking issues

directions to 71849 72128 that 718-497-2128 Jack shoes in the music Steely Dan Steely Dan taking their name I believe from a William Burroughs quote right it's I believe family-friendly thing but I believe Steely Dan is from a William William Burroughs book and it refers to a a toy used in private by women I specific brand of them or men I guess I don't know that the truth is that true

I don't know if some guy just handed it to the guy and say is this a Del's Lemonade that's cool. You have Rhode Island in a cup all right so like that's one of the like here's the thing right everyone says there's no such thing as Regional American X wires are full of horse manure. I got a couple of classic things anyone that I didn't ask for this like it's like slushie one right and Scott little piece of her it's classic but they sell a package bills that I've had that's okay let's not I don't think it's the same thing that they use if you get it from the Real Del stand in Rhode Island but I can't be sure any Rhode Island fan should call in and by the way

there's like a Rhode Island kind of a New York Rhode Island culinary Mafia you know find me because you can't beat the show without construction going outside sounds like a pig is running around behind you snorting

Wylie Dufresne my brother-in-law's Rhode Island there's a gazillion New York Chefs that are Rhode Island isn't isn't Kevin also from Rhode Island from Rhode Island small state lot of chefs let me see the races call me questions 270-497-2128 that is a 718-497-2128 Natasha you'll be glad to know that I in fact still not memorize it and Jack had to give me a card with it with the number you just play with me I really have not memorize it I think it's one of those things like don't you have anything that you just have a mental block on that you can't that you can't memorize

yeah yeah I can memorize many things the number of to call into the show is not not one of those things away every time it's funny it's like when you're reading something maybe this is part of the reason when you're reading something it literally just goes from your eyes out your mouth and it's just that's it's gone and I had this happen when I was out doing the ICP with the International Association culinary professionals with the Christian is the first time in my life we're doing a presentation for the award for the cookbook was the first time in my life I've ever used a teleprompter and I have no idea what I said you know what I mean is like sitting there and then like someone put something crazy in the teleprompter and they'll just start reading it with the same kind of emotion but now I really understand

delivering the text it's on the screen and the mental activity would take the process at the same time it's just you know too much anyway so maybe that's why maybe if I actually sat there I could memorize it but because I've never done it I've just read it off a piece of paper I'll never memorize it what you think

I was going to tell you la antique asking about special treats that you like so I've been sending them information on special things honestly referring to is I'm I am going off to Los Angeles in fact I have my bags with me now as soon as the show is over I'm going to John F Kennedy International Airport and flying to La we're shooting a pilot but I can't obviously talk about the pilot because then they would execute me so apparently they have been emailing us Tasha saying what things that I enjoy eating but the problem is this is an interesting fact for those who've never met this Tasha is that she's vicious she's a vicious vicious Jack true or false

he just nervous because he doesn't want to when she gets back but anyway so here's the deal I guarantee you and I'll find out when I get there I guarantee you in the stash is only said either things that are embarrassing to me or that I actually despise right and then running is there very few things I actually despise she'll say something like this get pretzel sticks even though everyone on Earth knows I detest pretzel sticks because they're not real pretzels I said real pretzels and they have to be in not even have those in California and that's an East Coast thing right do they have real pretzels Snyder's used to be one of the best but they've been stale now for about 15 years or 20 years. Snyder that come in a box have been stale but that's all school like I used to eat those that's what what the the Arnold Clannad

if you don't mind I know I'm just got this on here before but I'm going to Florida soon not only to taste mangoes which know maybe we'll talk about later if you have time maybe not with nastasha and Harold McGee and I'm hoping to get Tony Conigliaro out but I don't think it's going to be able to go but anyways I'm right after that I'm visiting my 92 year-old grandpa and my 98 year old great uncle Uncle Luke I think I told you this my kids want to visit him because they think he's Uncle Luke Skywalker they have no they have no idea anyway

he back in the depression work in a pretzel factory in so back into it cuz they're all from Lancaster County in Pennsylvania and so they I come from a pretzel eating background you are not related to me unless you like eating pretzels and the first thing you learn in my house is it pretzels must be twisted so what else did you tell him I like to do tell him I doubt there if you want to send me something I hate the only two Foods in the world that I don't like our natto which is a discusses and Harold McGee says he has not told that I'm actually going to like which is a fermented soybean product that to me tastes like garbage and the other is a melon I don't like Mel and so did you tell them to get me plenty of cantaloupe even though you know I hate it

no I'm not going to tell you what I told them something like really embarrassing like make sure you know what you're not embarrassed by I am not embarrassed to have a big pink drink in my hand like a giant Pink fruity drink in my hands if it's delicious I have no I have no problem with it what do you think like I know that there are certain drinks that if I see a dude with them I'm like really that's what you're going to have that's what you're going to drink but like I think that if there is a if there's a really good drink then you know you smell

light beer would embarrass you more than having a drink with a flower garnish in it I don't I don't understand I really don't understand okay one caveat like right now you're on the beach right is it piss hot where you are so mean you know a Corona has its place lyrics basically like beer right I mean basically like I want to have a little bit of alcohol and feel a little bit festive what I really want to do is drink seltzer water

so like you know you feel a little bit bad just ordering Excelsior and you feel bad or during a light beer so you order a Corona which of the Centre of Light beer without the light beer label anyway how the hell do we get on this subject I have no idea because of California real question here this is this is from I hope I pronounced as write my record Hyannis action Dave doing all right something's too salty you could add something I said I can do something stupid or yet sweet but how you find tuna recipe

books with the authors on that one again it's really interesting I-10 every cook has their own feeling for what they what they do to balance and usually when you taste something you'll you know why it's flat if it you know if it if it's flat also by the way when balancing a dish what I'll tend to do is take a little bit of that dish out and then play with that little bit of the dish on the sides that I can kind of see which direction my my additions are taking it so I don't kind of box the whole thing up but it's only just taste overall like like low and flavor dead I add a pinch of salt to see whether the whole thing wakes up a little bit and if it does I'll keep adding a little more I mean first of all like in the salt balance right I think is that is the most important thing and then the next one is almost always especially braises or any anything like that like big liquid-based

extended we tend to lack of acidity unless you specifically added it but you know typically you add those things towards the end of cooking so no first I'll usually first check us all components and then I'll check a check an acidity and I personally do a lot of like media mommy. During stuff either with fish sauce or with or with soy so even in non-western me and Western dishes I'll end up hitting it with like a little bit of not like not a normal officials one of the milder more kind of meaty fish sauce is like like you Siri from Japan or or I you what you can get from Japan cuz some of the you know some of the more traditional Southeast Asian ones can kind of quickly take on that Southeast Asian flavor otherwise or tiny bits of soy and not really so that you know you've done it just so that you kind of like really like

blow something out a little bit just really changes it and around it into more money so I can even like in like a bechamel sometimes I'll add a pinch of those kind of things I tend not that have MSG in my house or I might experiment with that so in general I don't do a lot of like masking right so I'll see you at Sugar to things around them out but in general I think in terms of balance is that you want to get you want to get the overall flavor pretty good like when you make a stock right you don't season the stock from the get-go you try to balance meat and vegetable and it's very kind of thing but when you taste it you could tell what it could be but it's very flat because it doesn't have any of the things that are in it you want it that way because you going to reduce it and so that's when you bring out the balancing at first you pop up all the flavors by adding something like salt which is going to enhance the flavor of everything and then you know or something too salty you can add sweetness

just going to balance out the saltiness because I think kind of thing you were talking about before the problem is that is it if you go that route if you don't want to be in a position of his having to tone down another flavor by adding another flavor on top of because then everything just gets kind of overwhelming overtime I think you're if you're on saying you agree or know I've been trying to have been really going that well I think what you want to do on that cuz that sounds like a good idea you should try to sort this stuff called IU which is this how you saw us at the sweet fish from Japan and I don't know who's carrying this stuff but it's the most unbelievable fish sauce I've ever had it's crazy because it's a dead cross between fish sauce and like bacon and ham juice it's nutts crazy but the I think it's available now but I'm not sure if it's amazing stuff

on the fish sauce is use it as a very minor component you know what I mean like like 1 - of fish sauce in like a caesar style thing is going to really pop and bring out that that fish sauce Essence especially are you are you doing it in addition to anchovy instead of anchovy you know there's another way to go if you want to go stick with him or Italian kind of flavor set there's a a fish product called colatura which is basically like I'd like an anchovy like oil doesn't taste like fish sauce but it's kind of in between like and like it's not fermented but it's got some of the kind of the funkiness of the anchovies you can take a look at that you can get that from Italian specialty Market but they charge an arm and a leg for it I think like that if you were to go and use and Angela because I always put anchovy in my Caesar salad no you crush crush crush it up for the flavor

also the most of my stuff I tend to use salt pack anchovies cuz I like them a lot but I think a dash of fish sauce and I can really work well the problem how much were you adding before so I would I would just go a lot last me fix I was just one of those things where it's like small amounts like add this kind of ineffable quality that you know that you is hard to get any other way and then you add a little bit more and now it tastes Asian on you you know what I mean which is good if that's what you're looking for I really she's been going on because you don't want cheese because of the Asian component or because yeah and it's it's interesting you know did lack of Gary in in Asian Cuisine sing I've been studying recently but also it's funny as the lack of dairy in like Italian classic or lot of European fish bass dishes and I think that

in the one case of dairy in Asia a lot of a lot of China foreign students in the North and then you know even throughout the middle section used to eat a lot of dairy and I think what happened during the Ming Dynasty there's a reaction against anything having to do with a kind of like Northern Invaders that they just basically thrown off the Yoke from and Simms Dairy was considered something that came from kind of Central Asia and the and the north are like crap on Dairy we don't want to use it anymore you know what I mean and then in in Italian European food I think the lack of dairy with specifically with fish face products guess except for things like Caesar salad which is not Italian but you know is a European derivative is that fish was eaten on Fast days and I'm fast as you didn't have dairy you only had you had no meat and you had no Dairy she had sex and I think that's where a lot of the you know it's Winston's fish pasta is don't have cheese on them because of this ancient you know kind of old idea that you

what day is it when you're at having fish you're not having any dairy from the point so it's very hard to substitute for permit parmesan very hard nothing kind of tastes like that and some sort of like you have something with a lot of enzyme breakdown products and it like maybe like a miso and then you know lime juice I think it would taste good it wouldn't taste like a caesar salad you know what I mean and then going to want to add some of that that that texture back you can mean nothing has that text read what I said text her and you could crumpled something like very like to look at you crumpled mean I know if you like Tempe it was It Go vegetarian except for the egg

dad for the texture compound of that but it's like that because it's really going to balance out the me to fix us when it's classic you know me like I was going to have somebody that you wouldn't normally get in a in a thing like that bring it closer to to Caesar salad and you know there's so many different flavors to play with me so that I think you can really balanced then also not just body but sweetness and the amino acid Amino flavors that you get in miso so I would try that

you want to talk about the I mean have you been offered any TV jobs I know they could forever to shut the cuter than your friends with your article was it on again a lot of I've done a lot of you know little spots on the expert for X Y and Z and I'm going to shoot a pilot now if that pilot takes off I'll be a recurring character on that show but need of the TVs really hard because you know sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't and you know they the kind of what I'm interested in is fairly Niche you know so like we have a ferret we know we have a of the people that read the blog or listen to the show you know I really I really like them

Innovative days are dedicated is kind of weird stuff that I'm in general interested in but it's hard to sell on a on a TV Charter cell on TV because it's just I don't think it's mass mass Market enough male that hopefully that that'll change but that's always been the problem is trying to figure out something that they could sell as kind of a mass-market show that is something that I'm still interested in you know what I mean is that we're done so much that nobody doesn't anymore but you know they could do it over there without anybody shopping you think about to reach their Cooks try to avoid a couple of things I think that there's definitely Realms there's a search for

novelty but it's very very kind of rain. It has to be extremely friendly but novel so you know those spend like a bazillion dollars to come up with a new flavor that's a tiny bit outside of the box but it's so friendly that someone will still order it so some of the some of the more challenging stuff that's being done in modern Cuisine is not going to trickle down anytime soon there certain exceptions let you know garnishes are or techniques but the core techniques that are being used and new technologies allow them come from kind of a similar Wellspring of ideas that that those guys use so you know I mean one of the major one of the major things that Ferran really did was say let let me look at industrial food manufacturing and see what it has to teach us about cooking so you know and I feel that

some of these techniques that are being used to make food better that we're just industrial techniques before are going to be used in in places that are more mass Market to make food better eventually and I think the key things is low low temperature cooking if you know when I go to that shows where I see the equipment is being sold to restaurant and Foodservice change now over the past couple of years have been a big Groundswell movement to move towards better temperature control and what that means is people are going to care more more about not overcooking their products or keeping them in top condition and to me that's one of the core things about kind of this new mode of cooking and like one of the core values is that and so I think that is definitely moving in to what's going on now are you ever going to see liquid nitrogen at Applebee's I don't know I don't think so you know what I mean unless it became kind of cost-effective where they could get I mean I can see someone like you know I can see Chucky Cheese making liquid nitrogen ice cream is part

as part of that pizza party thing for kids with video games I can see that it's cool I don't know whether any of the actual dishes are going to make it but I think that there is going to be a trickle down to some of these techniques because they just have legs you know some of some of them don't some of the some of them do you know before we run out of time I should answer the question that my Rica hand cuz it's an interesting one even though we've spoken a little bit by something similar before massage you still there all right so much are the rides interested for half my cooking issue is not very high-tech but of course we like all cooking issues right and Sasha more than any other show me what you really appreciate I hope you can share some nuggets of wisdom on the subject of pit roasting a pig she is she's doing that she spit roasting a pig

Berkshire hog and a ton of banana leaves we have pretty basic instructions but absolutely no experience with pit roasting I'm willing to go to any lengths to get excellent results any special tips tools are references okay okay I like the fact that you said we are willing to go to any lengths to get excellent results I appreciate that here is your main problem is that you have a single 100 pound pig and that it's very hard to get it right the first time around if you're going to spit roast a pig the basic the basic procedures are you build a fire and you use rocks you keep rocks with with a wood fire charcoal the wood fire and those rocks retain the heat that is then going to cook the animal over a long. Of time after you buried over with dirt the other basic principle is that you going to wrap the pig in banana leaves in in your case

about to get the moisture in the dirt from getting getting all over the page it keeps things one you want to make sure that your Stones aren't going to explode so but what I would do is I would find you want to find stones that. Don't have a lot of contained water in them that don't have a lot of figures that can break apart and then what I would do is build a fire outside and throw a bunch of rocks into it right and see whether and step away step away from the rocks and then if they explode explode you know I've had rocks not done a lot of work with the heating rocks and indeed they explode and when a rock explodes it's no joke you know what I mean it's like sprays everywhere little little shards of rock and and stuff totally freaked out the pastry I want a pastry chefs in a kitchen to school because I was hitting rocks over over a burn so I will preheat the Rock's check it dig a pit

then you're going to need to heat the rocks for for several hours I would also if you've been willing to go to any lengths I would definitely fire up the oven once get something that is like as a similar way to the pig you know that is cheaper than a pig and then attempt to roast it all the way through in the in the Earth as a test for your system right so what you going to need to do is build up a big enough layer of rock such that retains heat for a long enough to cook the pig all the way through right even though it's not going to be so hot it's going to overcook a ruin the pig at any one point so I would get some long if you have if you can I would get some long thermocouples which aren't that expensive if you can get them for like 15 $20 a piece on Amazon really long ones and then a thermocouple thermometer and embed them into the ground in several points along your proposed oven bury it like you were going to make the thing after it's been fired up and then take measurements of the temperature

overtime and you're going to want it to it can stay up fairly high it's never going to go really above boiling point because you're going to is going to braise basically because it's covered in it's it's you not going to evaporate the moisture because it's wrapped up in the in the in the banana leaves so I would I would measure it and make sure that it it you know it stays up in kind of that brazing range for several hours and then maintains a temperature above the cook point of the pork which is going to be in roughly 60 Celsius or 140 Fahrenheit for a good depending on I can't picture how big around a hundred pound pig is but not that much I think like a good like six hours or something like that if it stays around hovers around there but isn't too high for that range I think you're going to be a very good idea that somebody had and I will get you the website because it's it seems to be a fairly piece of reference on how to build this it's a recipe Cottage

recipe cars.com Hawaiian forward slash forward slash whole roast pig pig after you do the banana leaves you wrap the pig and chicken wire so that you can easily pick it up without the pig totally falling apart I think that's a kind of Genius a genius idea I want to do is take care of the meet the one of the problems with cooking whole animals is that no one portion of the of the of the meat has the same rights of some cut want to be cooked by brazing over a long. Of time to break down a college in those ones are the ones they're going to taste best using this kind of a technique because they have enough collagen in them that when they're cooked they're going to stay unconscious even though the meat is technically gone well above the temperature that you would want to cook it if you were just cooking it let's say as a steak for medium rare but the other muscles like the law and the things I've done

have a lot of a exercise a lot of movement these ones even if they stay juicy because you wrap them and they have enough entrained moisture in it I think they're going to be not prime texture because those muscles aren't meant to be cooked at long and this is the problem I think it's I don't think it's possible to cook a whole animal such that unless you go to Crazy lengths like I like I did with the with the turkey that you know I made a artificial aluminum skeleton for and pumped you know molten hot butter through it mean like in unless you go to Bonkers things very hard to get a whole animal to come together at the same time so one thing I would do is it is if you can salt out or get some salt or something in the areas that don't have as much connective tissue beforehand that is going to protect them a little bit by having them keep more moisture by basically making the muscles be able to hold onto the water little bit better so I would definitely do that I would I wish you could run some

it's all about running tests for since I've never cooked a one underground I've done spit roast whole Pigs and the idea that there is basically stretch out the animals at all Meats get done at the same amount in the same amount of time so you can have a problem with your pig that if you have places in the thigh and the leg especially where the leg meets the body it's going to be very thick there and so that's going to take the longest to cook a newbie ruin the rest of the meat while that's happening that's why a lot of recipe to pay the score out the meat so you can get down close to the bone in those areas but then you have the problem if you're going to leave a lot of juices out there in that procedure even if you wrap it and put in banana leaves so I don't know whether if I can do it myself I might stretch it out so it's long and then wrap it although that it goes against what I think most people would tell you to do but I'm going to try to do a little more research maybe post something if you post something to eat or to the eater thing hopefully I'll have some time to do some more research later this week and I can have some more definitive answers for you America but thanks for writing in and

I think I'm I think I might have to either do this from La next week or I might have to help and I have to skip a week by Jack that be terrible that would be awful Sunny Rhode Island by heard that you found a skate on the on the beach and instead of eating it you threw it back in the water what's up with that attacked and was going to die anyway which case you should have eaten it or what

I threw it back in shape

no you don't have the same thing as a singer escapes no skates look like Stingray but they're not like a stingray when they look like like many stingrays

what you said with my bare hands

yeah escapes delicious another one of those things that for years and years and years with a trash fish they would throw it away and I can no one realize how delicious it was delicious delicious fish anyway this is been cooking issues please come back next week

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Twista get it straight job me honest, I don't know

this is behind the scenes food news with Katie Kieffer in the wake of the mass of E coli outbreak in Germany which was finally traced to organic Sprouts the editors of food safety news publishing editorial suggesting that all Sprouts should come with a warning label the CDC or Center for Disease Control is echoing that sentiment saying Sprouts are not healthy food for everyone children the elderly and persons who immune system whose immune systems are not functioning well should not eat raw Sprouts because current treatment of seeds and Sprouts cannot get rid of all the bacteria present persons who are at high risk for complications from foodborne illness should probably not eat raw Sprouts according to an article in the current issue of emerging infectious diseases cdc's peer-reviewed Journal which tracks new and emerging infectious diseases worldwide

although Sprouts are often considered a health food the warm humid conditions needed for growing Sprouts from seeds are also ideal for bacteria to flourish salmonella e-coli and other bacteria can grow to high-level without affecting the appearance of the Sprouts researchers have treated both seeds and sprouts with heat or washed them and solutions of chlorine yum Alcohol and Other chemicals some of these disinfectants reduce the levels of bacteria but a potential Hazard remained especially for persons with weak immune systems that would be the elderly children pregnant women etcetera high temperatures that would kill the bacteria on the seeds would also keep them from sprouting so until an effective way is found to prevent illness from Sprouts they really should be eaten with caution if at all and by the way it's National Sprout month this is behind the scenes food news with key keeper

check out a small clip from the food scene hosted by Michael Harlan turkell a show where food and art intersect I think most recently chocolate waterfall that had five tons of chocolate flowing and you put on what a protective suit walk through a waterfall make your own chocolate with in this kind of contained environment and most recently a rabbit Cafe Yelp can you explain that one to me a little bit well actually the World by Todd Roberts ID with one of them

what's the future want to hear more into the food scene live every week Tuesdays at 3 p.m. or you can find all the archived shows on a website or subscribe to the podcast in iTunes thanks for listening

the following is a message from Zingerman's

from June 30th to July 3rd 2011 come hang out at Camp bacon a four-day Festival hosted by Zingerman's the main event is an all day Affair at Zimmerman's Roadhouse featuring plenty of bacon bacon learning and such luminaries is Allen Benton jayanti Edge Molly Stevens and more the event will be taking place in Ann Arbor Michigan proceeds from this event benefit Southern foodways Alliance also on Friday July 1st to be a special benefit performance featuring Andre Williams in the gold stars and special guests Jon Langford and skull Orchard visit www. Is Zingerman's camp baking.com for more information and four tickets once again that's www. Zimmerman's Camp bacon. Com

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