Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 44: Curing and Iki Jime

hi I'm Steve Jenkins I work for Fairway markets in the New York area and we are awfully proud to support Heritage Radio and we care so much about everything that goes on out here at Roberta's in their Studio because they talk to people who are serious about food and that's what we are at Fairways were serious about food we just care very deeply about about you was as a customer and how you cook and what you cook with and how you entertain and then that's why we love to support Heritage Radio because it is pretty much the same thing it's wanting to to find happiness through serious food and people who are serious about it and and care about learning everything there is to learn about next steps

Kindred Spirits if it's something worth having in your kitchen you're going to find it at Fairway and if there's somebody worth talking to about food you're going to find them in on Heritage Radio when we will be supporting you guys for a long long time at fairly I'm your personal grocery Steve Jenkins Fairway Market

cooking issues here on the Heritage Radio Network on Dave Arnold the whole to cooking issues in the studio today at Roberta's with mustaches Amber Lopez coming to you live every Tuesday from 12 to 12:45 how you doing today in Los Angeles next week you're on the last space shuttle mission where are you where you going Rhode Island from Los Angeles next week I'm not sure we'll keep you posted by tweets call 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 to take from the questions we got emails I got a question from Eric zawacki he says idea for a pork belly dish to replicate the feeling of being at a barbecue spot using the sense of smell

use more electric water pipes used for he says you know what but it's for marijuana it's like what they are is there actually a offense question I want us there would be apple wood chips in the bowl and smoke generator will be shot into an upside-down serving vessel stemless wine glass for instance covering a dish so that when you open it serviced it would have met the smell of being in a place with a barbecue smoke pit talking about here is back in the eighties they developed these little miniature ATI 80s they develop into a miniature electric vacuum cleaners overpowered with double a batteries and they were for geeks like myself I own several so you can vacuum out your keyboards and and small parts in electronics and crap like that's it and then some Enterprise so they're they're supposed to vacuum machine vacuum cleaners miniature and some enterprising but extremely lazy pothead who couldn't take the trouble to inhale the smoke from their pipe because they were so they were so stoned they did

literally could not inhale dude I can put the batteries in this sucker backwards and it will run backwards and instead of being a vacuum it will suck the it will it will shoot smoke and see what they did is they screwed 8 they weren't screwed a bowl you know like a pot Bowl little one on the top of this vacuum cleaner and then ran it backwards and shot marijuana smoke out of the out of the pipe so that's where we were from you know I don't know sometime in the nineties probably up until the very early 2000s when a group of Chef started using them as smokers rent so the most famous chef Dino that uses it and used it fairly early was one Roca I saw them do a presentation at Madrid Fusion I believe in 2005 or 4 or something like that and they famously took these took these things and

would basically what you're saying Eric which is they would they would inject smoke under a cloche under like in a serving dish and then they dish would be completely obscured and then when you lifted the dish up the smoke would go out and you have this sensation smoke and really awesome visual effect in a really good kind of going from not seeing to seeing with the clothes I only said being metal up in glass it's very famous presentation work extremely well I can't demonstrate a couple times I've never eaten it Harold McGee and Wiley have both had it and they said it was a good dish another thing that these guys did was they took a like a a little glass it's almost like yeah looks like a gravy boat with a flat top and they sealed plastic around it and then they poke a little hole in it and they put the smoke into that will look with little hole and every time your spoon hit the dish it would send up a little smoke ring that was also a really good presentation really cool and people also use it for smoking things like you could wrap something inside of let's say

like a bowl or a Tammy with with a plastic wrap and check the smoke and lets it personally I don't think that it has the same effect as actual smoking because the smoke is static and I constantly generating it and after a while but smokes going to settle out I don't think it's the same as actual smoking got a problem is the pothead vacuum cleaners are 10 to be built not that well but there and they tend to burn out and there's there's kind of problems with the melting getting overly hot Philip Preston at polyscience makes one that's kind of more Robo and built for cooking I don't know what he called he calls it The Smoking Gun so he sells one that's kind of meant to stand up the kitchen where that the one that I went to what the kids call nowadays we called a head shop right where you go when you buy pot paraphernalia you know but you have to pretend that you're using it for tobacco otherwise they won't sell it to you if you say I need something to ease marijuana smoke tobacco in this thing and then they can sell to you anyways so like

you go to those you buy one but don't expect those ones to last too long they they leak and date they melt because they're you know whatever they're not they're not high quality is my son would say they are there loquat low quality products so I hope that helps Ryan Santos wrote in he says he's looking for some guidance in cooking pork blade steaks sous vide they are crazy marble fatty it was thinking of trying more of a pork belly type of protein in a pork chop steak kind of approach any insight would be appreciated but I've never actually cooked to what the blade steak is it mean if I'm right about this which I assume I am is it's basically a steak cut from the pork shoulder not the picnic shoulder but basically the front shoulder of the pig and has a little bit of the blade blade phone in it and I have cooked whole pork shoulder before it works quite well but you know I have never cooked just a blade steak that way and in the problem with any of these kinds of cooking when you're doing sous-vide or low temperature for a long time is it contain

lots of different muscles and it's very hard to get all the muscles perfect at the same time because if there's a muscle that has less connective tissue in it and then that muscle is going to lose its texture and get kind of little mushy by the time the rest of the muscles are going to get are going to get done and we have that same problem with pork belly as well now with pork shoulder I don't think you're going to have to go nearly as long as you would have to go for a pork belly right so pork shoulder you know you can test and see how you like it I would choose a relatively low temperature like between depends on how you like your pork between 58 and 60 Celsius which is 140 and Below although the poor camps Council still believe that you can cook pork to 160 degrees Fahrenheit and have it be juicy do you think that's even possible to stash is that even that's not physically impossible right unless you slather it was some sort of external juice it's not going to have its own juice but anyway so I would cook between between like 1:38 and 1:40 Fahrenheit

and you know try cooking it for see whether not 12 hours is enough actually weather or if that's too chewy then try it for a day and if that's too chewy try it for two I would not go over today's honestly I would probably go for like 24 hours I like a little texture to my meat. I don't want it like to kind of mushy and pretty sure it's some of the muscles in that state or going to turn kind of fibra music there is a kind of when you overcook something low temperature it doesn't have the same characteristics as overcooked meat in general overcook low temperature meat doesn't go dry right it goes what I say is, I like it just lose it as texture and turns mushy so happens when you bite into it like it'll be the first fight will explode kind of wood with juice but then as you keep chewing it'll taste almost like Little Fibers like a paste mush in your in your mouth is it you've had it for his actions and accurate descriptions and it turns to kind of like just being kind of pace in your mouth

they don't mind it but to me it's like a it's a huge it's a huge problem so that's what overcooking means in low-temperature kind of a sous vide environment but tell us tell us how it works out because I've never I've never done it before it looks like a very expensive cut of meat and I think I would do is I would cook it in a vacuum I wouldn't I would suck gay kind of a medium kind of vacuum on it wouldn't go too hard I would then take this thing I would cook it all the way through to whatever tenderness you want then I would let it cool down like 100% cool down and then put a righteous hard c r on it on the outside because you'd want I think you want to you want it basically have it tastes kind of traditional probably have a look real nice crust on the outside and be soft in the inside I think they the way to go also some tests that we've run recently I don't salt the meat before hand here it is kind of obvious and I don't know why I never thought of it before

but we were running a bunch of tests we're and typically when I found a plan to do what's called the rexxar where I'm going to cook it and insert it right after it's right after it's been cooked I will salt the meat before I sear it and then put it in the bag and then cook it problem is is that if you're storing to meet for a long time over night or the next day the meats going to get cured and going to lose some of its juice and it's going to get firmer like Jared meet show the basic rule is if you're going to keep something for a long time exception is braised is that you're going to cook for a long time really braising meat out in which case you can salt it beforehand cuz it needs to be season throughout but if you're going to take a piece of meat and serve it like a steak you don't want to assault your meat before you serve it all right and we'll talk about that a minute cuz apparently had to call her call her you were on the air. How's everything going all right I'm glad to hear that I saw you know I've been getting word to fish and I told her you had a little thing on you could Gmail

I don't fully understand it how could have destroyed since I let you destroy the the spine and something it makes the fish taste better are you do fish know I'm just now getting into Seafood a little more very glad you asked this question because I just shot something with the Dave Chang last week on you could be my head and I need to Gmail work for a while and then I just came back and did some just this week so this is very very good question so he may is basically just the entire range of Japanese fish killing techniques and it needs is a whole range of them but they're update they basically complish two things one they are meant to bleed out the fish properly write because Japanese fish day all about getting the blood out of the fish and the second aspect is preserving or enhancing the texture of the fish based on how it's killed okay so there's there's two there's there's the spinal cord thing is one aspect of Eco Gmail

call Shing kanuka songs running through all of the technique so there's a Technique we haven't experimented with up until now but it seems like a very good technique and so I'm going to do it from now on they make a little curved knife right into the first thing you do is you take the live fish and you and you impale its head with this curved knife and you destroy the brain right and and see what that does right normally what I would do instead of doing that is just sever the spine okay with a knife right under the gills slaps ever the spine and what that'll do is disconnect the brain from the rest of that muscle so that the brain is no longer control your muscles two things that one it takes it takes a little bit to get the knife in there and also it takes a lot of force to accurately break the spinal cord there so you might miss in which case you're going to cause stress in the muscles the fish has more of a chance to flop around because you're doing more adjustment while you're doing that and so there's more chance of going to drop the fish which causes stress it efficient to the muscles

my new Theory and on also when you sever the spinal cord that way the brain is still alive in the fish and so if you're going to serve the head there might be some detrimental effect on the on the taste of the head although I don't know this I haven't studied that but in general I think just for humanitarian reasons and also for ease and speed of killing which equals better flesh reasons the best thing to do is to take this knife or an ice pick or whatever go into the brain right you know above and behind the eye and basically take its brain out right now the brain's gone then I would cut the spinal cord at the top and the bottom when you said spinal cord near the tail and near the front what you're doing is first while cutting all of the you're cutting the connection from the brain to the spinal cord not a spinal cord is isolated from the from the right and that's good for reasons I'll tell you in a minute but to your severing the blood vessels that run down along the bottom of the spine and with that allows you to do is really believe this sucker out so if you cut just in the front

chicken with call Gil cutting that is what we do kind of traditionally but you cut the front in the back the basically the fish can pump the blood out of its body more efficiently and eventually we're going to stick it in water like salted ice water and then it's going to pump out and pump clean water into a system and you can get a really nice pureblood outfit was at the Japanese really like they don't like that that taste of what they would call the GI line which is that blood line that runs along I like on a fish that you see the dark striping like a tuna they would prefer like the like the lighter flavor of the things been totally blood out right so that's it that's the basically the bleeding technique now that the next technique the further technique is to then take a needle than me like a wire and run it up the spinal cord rights are not in the center of spinal cord but at the bottom of the spine is the other blood vessels and at the top of the spine or is this is basically where the spinal cord is running and it's a straight shot all the way up and so you stick a needle through the spine and it basically wipes out the spine and that's going to be interesting technique that because we

kind of intuitively understand what's going on with all of those first steps right with the bleeding and you know it kind of makes sense and it's just taking out the spinal cord with a needle is a thing that is kind of weird and we don't we like why would you do that the answer is it is because the spinal cord even though the brain is not sending messages to the spinal cord the spinal cord has its own way of sending out messages to the muscles there's things called Central pattern generators in the spinal cord itself telling the muscles to basically to swim right and they don't swim because they're no longer cord me to buy the brain but they're sending impulses to the muscles causing those muscles to contract they when the muscles are these impulses going to them to contract what what happens if they lose their energy quicker the ATP which is which is your energy source in fish muscles and your muscles in my muscles so

by depleting ATP right as ATP is depleted and energy stores in the muscles are depleted that's what causes the muscles to go into rigor mortis because you know that you need energy to contract your muscles you also need energy in the form of ATP to release your muscles so as you lose ATP in a dead muscle they just ratchet Tighter and Tighter and Tighter and Tighter and they can't unring ratchet they can't open up so it turns out that the faster you go into rigor mortis the faster you deplete your energy the harder the rigor mortis is and fish muscle is strong enough to do damage to itself with rigor mortis so when it comes out of rigor mortis right if you haven't shove the needle up the spine then your fish turns softer it's less firm right so when you put the needle in the spine what you're doing is preserving the texture of the fish are going to get less gaping in the in the in the muscles less dripping less weeping and it's just a firmer the weird thing about he could you man some Western chest I can't wrap their heads

and it is it takes longer for the fish to be in prime prime condition after you do we could do me right when you do EtG me if you eat any fresh fish it was just killed it's it's going to taste kind of almost crunchy you know almost like crunchy like I like giant clam Sushi kind of crunchy right and then or liking a geoduck geoduck rather the clam that kind of crunchy and then you have to live in a western fish one that hasn't had it been since the needle of a spine is going to come out of rigor faster and so for a small window you might prefer it but when you taste it you can tell that that it has kind of a machinist it come from the discard rigger that isn't in the fish that has had the needle gone of a Spinosaurus specially true of fish that had to do a lot of swimming hard swimming so extra ipers Tunas you know any any kind of fast any hard so anything but also things like fluke you can make a difference there's some evidence I haven't tested every fish that I have tested taste better with with

middle of the spine but there's some evidence that certain fish like place for instance don't benefit from the from the spine but I haven't I have never tested a fish that didn't benefit not tested black fish stripers hybrid bass fluke is making more sense now

we still is dizzy off the air that talk him off the air. I think I talked him off like AT&T cut is cut his phone off by the time I got anyway so they're like the benefit is huge problem is is that it's been on the air

hey how you doing I miss that I heard was yeah I love going to Chicago cuz I really like I really like eating in Chicago to Great eating Townsend I like walking around Chicago so I'm sorry I missed it anyway reservations to alinea in August about that before you get ready because I can you get the full tasting and the end the wine you're there for hours and I'm going to roll you out in a barrel you know what I mean you're going to be like yeah I'm pretty excited about it work early reservation

I think it might be like a 6:30 at night had the full tasting in the entire kitchen wanted to eat kimchi made me stick a knife in my head because they we weren't out of there until like 2:30 in the morning anyway

yeah we're definitely on the earlier side stuff

I'm doing in my attic right now and when I was but the other kind which is essentially saltpeter was the United States but I got the money had and I'm just wondering what it what's the difference between a nitrate and nitrite which one is saltpeter and and why would have claimed it was illegal in the United States or so yeah well then he's wrong kind of on both counts you are lucky to live near a place called butcher Packer if you're going to get stuff for curing you should deal with the guys at butcher Packer they're really good and they will sell to you not just to kind of industry types and they have all the all the different things there's there's two there's a bunch of different things you can buy

ride the to curing salts that they're sold are either called instacure 1 or instacure to or Prague powder 1 or Prague powder 2 and there's nothing you can buy call Morton's Tender Quick right most of them taking picture one and the Prague 1 and The Tender Quick have as their base nitrite sodium nitrite right saltpeter like is an old form day of nitrate can be used but now it's sodium nitrate right and not the same as like what they would say is saltpeter Straits I'll Peter sodium nitrate is not illegal write the factor matter is that you're only supposed to use nitrate right on things like country hams or like prosciutto if they don't use nitrates at all in in the in the in the city Department in country ham in there some American country ham people that don't use nitrates either write what they think of nitrate right witcha

it's like the insecure to when I think I might think of nitrate as kind of Time released night right because what happens is is that you rub the Cure into the surface of the meat and the night right right gets used up fairly quickly as it goes through turn sit and how does it's curing thing right the night raid takes longer to convert to nitrite which then converts to you know they enter which does its which does it stink so nitrates are long-acting nitrates and in only use on whole muscle cut long-haired items like on like a bacon or on anything like that because those are you pumped or bumped you don't need to cure that long that makes sensor

more red sky view of botulism or something like that but you know as long as the rest of it done properly. Properly should be okay right there not really going to get how can I come and say that I'm wrong but you're not really going to get botulism in something like a ham you're going to get you going to get botulism in something like a sausage sausage where are sufficiently dried and sufficiently salted supposedly to get rid of any risk of botulism write the night that the nitrites in the the nitrates and nitrites do a couple of things they ensure that you're going to get that cured color right that cure color will come just from long aging right which is why you don't need it for Prosciutto de Parma or for American Family agent long enough but if you have a shorter aged hand who ever seen a shorter aged ham and you cut it parts of the area will be kind of grey and they were under toward right and so you can you can see that that kind

ain't happening but you're still not going to get botulism because the inside of the meat unless you hit it with a knife is relatively sterile rent and plus you know they're helping us if it's done right yeah so it is if it's in your attic right the ham then assuming that your attic is not really a air condition dry during the summer if it gets hot does it get Hot Takis coming

but it still stays relatively warm up there close to American country ham temperature differences between prosciutto and yuno X style prosciutto and an American start the temperature in the humidity is going to be fairly high humidity fairly high temperature environments Inc Virginia In The Summertime by the way just because you don't smoke it doesn't mean that it's not american-style because many American hands are not smoke right you know plenty of them and I'll show you know that's kind of just a choice that that that people may how old is it right now

right now it's about six months 6 and 7 months something right around there I got it in late December and it started hanging and in like early January basically hanging upside down or is a Hotpoint down the hot pointed up I waited it as I felt it so it's got that nice Flats you know prosciutto look to it but it's a cup you might want to Lord over the face of the meet at this point okay how long ago did you do that come out of it beforehand but then when you Lord over the face you're now you're stopping a lot of the moisture from leaving on that side and that's one of the things that Americans don't do that I wish they did do because the face side of the meat gets too dry but you didn't deboni at the right phone still in

yeah so how long you going to hang it like a year or longer another one before this just like a month before this one that would skin off and you know more like a 12 pound like bone femur and ham right I think it over that one month or so but this time to wait till at least 2012 you know the ice pick trick like shoving ice pick into it to smell it to see how you're doing it takes practice but I'm just looking for a cured ham and yeah and you can search also to make sure that you don't have like a taint along the bone line or anything like that by the way I've had many hands that

I like a taint like a little bit of an uninsured part that along the bone and it doesn't affect the rest of your ham sure you already know this if you've already if you already done it's over by the way a good place to look for a country ham curing is a guy named Norman Marriott who's a who's ex says he's Emeritus at death in Virginia Tech and he has a good online pdf on hand carrying it in a bat in case you want to try like total american-style some point bag during which is actually kind of kind of interesting maybe do an American stuff your next one

25 lb of nice nice and straight are Amish farmer in Central Indiana where I spent a lot of time at night sounds delicious I certainly hope so next December what's the temperature has dropped out of the other one so who directed American country ham all right well there's a there's a couple of really good ones the problem is you got to make sure you get the good ones from the which means you can't you have to physically call and ask

how the particular ham is so that look like my go to hams are I like a s Wallace Edwards right he has he has one that's Now call the soriana which I I don't enjoy the name because I hate like pretending that it's like some sort of a Spanish thing but he is currently making those things with Patrick hear from Heritage Food his Heritage pork they're unbelievably marbled and they're they're very well-made I really like those they're kind of smoke in a Virginia Tidewater style I think you put pepper on the I think you smoke even this Ariana wants their delicious he might make one smoke one I really like Nancy Mahaffey at Colonel newsom's over in Kentucky you know their recipe goes back a long way I have heard that she's now experimenting with with some Heritage pork in fact I tasted some is delicious her hand is hung in the area that has kind of like a lot of like funky molds it's kind of like she's near swamp and her hands have a very faint Whisper of kind of like a blue cheese note that I really really enjoyed but yet you have to call her she only cares once a year in the in the in the winter time

and she sells our stuff out so you got to make sure it's sometimes she has some older ones that are held over from last year you can call her and she will hold them for you as she's great I like Alan Benton makes us some good hands I haven't had his in awhile Benton's country ham closer to you Burgers Smokehouse makes a like us some commodity Ham's right but they also make a like kind of a dare Heritage ham which is 12 months old and believe it's called like attic age but you have to call cuz they make some hands for Walmart you know what I mean and then they make and then they make some that are you know that are all about kind of it's all about with with these with these companies like calling them up and and just talking with him on the phone and making sure that you're getting cuz they think that you don't want it you know what I mean like they think that you want a four-month-old commodity ham and because that's what people have been asking for it because people have been searching for based on price and they've been they wanted kind of a less salty taste and you're like listen I want

I want yes to Burgers one's not super funky and it's not smoked their attic one it's it's a milder kind of ham I think the DS Wallace Edwards depends on which kind of Aging room he's in but this new Marvel stuff is great Nancy Mahaffey stuff really good Allen Benton stuff I don't know if I'll invent is currently doing anything with like the Heritage breeds the prom with American country hams isn't that we don't have the technical expertise to make the stuff because we do it's that it said our poor quality and then lacking for many years and terms of marbling also the older used the older and animal is when slaughtered in the higher the slaughter weight of the animal depending on the genetics obviously but for to give an animal the enzyme characteristics of the meat change as the animal ages and they changed more favorably towards making country so the older of the meet is at Slaughter not only the more flavorful will it be but the better it will age so you know these older bigger hams not only ate better because they're physically larger

any kind of physically have more fat witch protection so they can age more but also their enzyme makeup and their initial flavor profile is better and so as we start realizing this and as like some of the top notch American country ham producers start buying better pour I think you're going to see us competing with some of the top European people kind of more head-to-head me I like it anyway I prefer American country hams taste profile because it's age that a higher 10 but you know like that that's kind of the last step we need to get to is it the Farms another really good one there in Kentucky so they're really good Fresh Field Farms Farms is interesting they also you know basically I think they cure like one one one or two times do they do a natural kind of. They're also nitrate-free Newsome's right so you should taste those two side-by-side cuz once smoked and one's not and they're both Kentucky but their aged in very different environments in Kentucky

they make a really good they make a really good product as well

no problem remember to call those guys before you buy it so you know you're getting the right one. I cool alright thanks a lot so let's go to our first commercial break calling all of your questions to 718-497-2128 at 4:24

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hello and welcome back to cooking issues call Audrey questions to 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 so how cool is that we got to call pump not only Heritage Meats but also one of our sponsors that's why I said words that's great and I also happen to believe in those products it's a problem remember the time we had a sponsor to show other shows like people will read sponsorship sponsorship but Jack our Intrepid engineer has to record ours ahead of time because no one ever knows what the hell I'm going to say about a particular spot me to cook if I think that the thing is crap or if I don't understand why it what it see no selling proposition is I find it difficult to kind of sell it right now the only one I do it across the board now

and you know our parent Heritage Foods USA are two things I can pack and kind of stand behind without the qualification what was I saying to remember I don't you are saying the entire process and then you were talking about the chain thing so oh my God so I don't know how much I'm allowed to say ignore Chang has this new TV show is not a TV show it's it's an iPad application and you can get to watch a little bit of it for free and then you have to buy the rest of it and it's being done by Anthony Bourdain's production company which you know anyway so he had me in to do the segments I don't know how much I'm allowed to say about it because you know you're going to have to hit see the iPad stuff but I will say this before this week I never had real like line line Cartwright on the boat striped bass that had been done

make a Gmail with the spike through the head and with it with the needle through the spine and we didn't assign they were huge they were like you know 40 in and they were caught right off Montauk train of thought he could be made right on the boat we had western style which means Montauk stop to Montauk style is is you'll you'll get your cut the gills or bleeds to death and then throw it directly on the ice and Let it bleed out right so that's one step above just taking the fish and throwing it into into your eyes swell and letting it die by 68th and we just a lot of people do it because a lot of people they think there's kind of barbaric to do all these things to the fish when you get him out like cut the gills and stuff but what it really is is they just don't have the cojones to dispatch the fish when it comes when they take it out of the water and I'd rather have the things suffocate to death in you know in a box where they can't see it you know what I mean which to me so it was like all of these things where

tell you people say you're doing something kind of inhumane by you know sticking a knife in his head and then cutting the spine at the gills and cutting the spine at the tail first of all like of these things are done to kill the fish as quickly as possible Right which is the most Humane thing to do instead of letting it suffocate right secondly if you were going to kill this is why I said we were shooting I believe if you were going to kill an animal to eat it right you are obligated to one try to reduce its suffering as much as possible while you're while you're killing it which has the added benefit that it makes it taste better 90 in every every example that I've ever heard of or seen that killing an animal in a way that is the least trauma to the animal makes the best tasting animal

so we're obligated to be as Humane as possible and you're also obligated to make the animal taste as good as you possibly can write me don't you think if you're going to kill something if you should at least taste that's why I like I told my kids and I don't waste meet my kids are like Daddy I have to eat this meat and I'm like yes it is because a cow died for it I'm like yes you shouldn't really ways to stuff and you you shouldn't really you should treat it well you shouldn't overcook it you sure you're obligated not to overcook it you're obligated not to mess it up you're obligated not to I know I think waste a lot when you when you when you eat the so anyway so these these techniques which some people find kind of barbaric in fact my stepfather who the surfcaster he's in Cape right now he caught the biggest monster fish I've ever seen someone catch surf casting for stripers in the cape the thing was I don't know how to how long it was it was like like 46-48 in Crazy was over four feet long is think it was huge anyways so he didn't he didn't

make a Gmail at one because I haven't shown him how but he's like my fish don't like things shoved up their butts unlike listen you know the chilling in any way you might as well have it be perfect by shoving it's not it's not the but anyway anyway so even though it looks weird he's afraid to do it because he thinks the other surfcasters are going to think that he's a lunatic and going to try and come over in like you know get mad at him for torturing the fish but in fact you're doing the fish a favor by killing it quickly and then you're doing yourself a favor and honoring the fish by having the flesh be as perfect as it can be so we tasted these different ones and the western style fish was definitely not as good as the Montauk style all props in Montauk but montauk's in Long Island for anyone listening who doesn't know they kind of just goes and said that if it's where Jaws was you know it was supposedly from Big Lots of fishing boats off Montauk beautiful so it is you're doing good on her to the fish by doing it that way

play one hour of talking about also Western Chef's need to kind of get that wrap their heads around the fact that the freshest fish isn't necessarily the best Acer there's a Chinese technique where they prize freshness Above All Else and mustache and I saw a demonstration of this once where you literally rap the live fishes head in towels and then cut the muscles of the official can't move anymore and then deep-fry the body while the head still alive now I don't practice at the please don't write in or call in cuz I remember that remember I don't remember that aspect of it but I do remember the demonstration I did taste it I don't think that I don't think it really like the idea is it is supposed to be the life of the fish is still there and so you're supposed to like that that's promote freshness whatever I don't think that it benefits that the fish really from a taste and points now now like a huge chunk of like

Chinese Chinese people are going to get mad at me cuz I don't think it's it's kind of like it's kind of you know but I think it's kind of horrible thing to do I wouldn't Advocate doing what about you you felt bad you didn't want to let you know around the world who believe it the freshest fish is the best fish and so preferably with a head still alive while you're eating the body with shit that's just perverts right if it tasted really great I would say what I don't know maybe but I don't really think it tastes like that I don't think it was that good either but anyway

but the fact of the matter is that you really most of time want to wait for the fish to go through rigor mortis before you eat it so the freshest fish isn't necessarily the best fish is the fish that is at the right time now it is true that once fish reaches its peak it doesn't stay in Peak condition very long so once it reaches its peak you want to eat a very quickly but it's like if the fact that matter is is that Peak isn't the moment it's killed you know tuna it takes days for it to really come out of rigor and have it be have it be perfect again and so you know you want to really it's not every fish the moment it's caught it's every fish at its proper time one thing that that they were looking for Bluefish do Bluefish massager I love Blue Fish Blue Fish I loved it for a long time start to get popular lot of people don't like it cuz it's an oily fish the real strong swimmers will mean suckers they stand they form huge schools and they go up a lot of times close to the beach and like my stepfather seen it where people have been in the water and like a school of Blues will come through

I know just take a bite right out of like a special members leg because they're vicious suckers and they got like sharp sharp teeth in fact if you're fishing for blue as they use a lot of times metal leaders on him because they'll cut through their teeth to cut through other stuff and blues are there monsters Elite anyting but delicious I want to try it yet you can see me on a blue fish cuz they're strong right so I think that they would really benefit from it and they're one of those fish that you need to eat relatively quickly people really say you need to eat a quick because the flesh deteriorate so I'm wondering whether we can improve the quality of it by doing it to Gmail on a Bluefish and I'm especially interested because that is a fifth of the Japanese guys don't eat right so they don't really understand the blue fish it's not it's not something that they eat as far as I know so my goal for the summer and if anyone's you hearing this by Dave tanks iPad app when it comes out so that you could do me section on it because there's enough footage in that thing for you to learn how to do it from watching it and so you can learn it can be made from that and then go eat kijimea some blue fish and

tell me how it tell me how it turns out so I may be in Los Angeles next week I may not because even though it's next week and we're shooting is pilot for normal not to smile or something so I don't think you are know it's about history and and cooking and I am going to be like if it all works out because even though it's only a week away for some reason because it's me and I'm completely disorganized we don't have any Goshi ation is done yet so I have no idea what's going on but if if if I do I'm going to be a judge can believe that me as a judge

I think it's going to work out the statue nice because you sit there and just give him the death stare the whole time and then the shake your head your honest that's what that is honesty anyway so hopefully I will be here if not I'll be coming to you from Los Angeles this is been cooking issues have a good week

thanks for listening to this program on the Heritage Radio Network you can find all of our archives programs on Heritage Radio Network. Com as well as a schedule of upcoming live shows you can also podcast all of our programs on iTunes by searching Heritage Radio Network in the iTunes Store you can find us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter for up-to-date news and information thanks for listening

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this is behind the scenes food news with Katie Kieffer the USDA has introduced the MyPlate icon I'm sure you've all seen that in the news replacing the food pyramid that was in use for 19 years this colorful icon contains portions of fruits vegetables grains protein and a little side dish of dairy it can be viewed at it does look like a plate it's divided into four quadrants they are surprisingly similarly-sized vegetables fruits proteins greens the beds are definitely a little bit larger than the other groups but protein was really big I was surprised I thought we were supposed to eat less meat

each component of the plate can be clicked on for a drop down menu that explains portion size healthy choices nutritional information at cetera it offers significantly more information to Consumers but it is a little bit more complicated to you as we'll see if people actually look at it this is been behind the scenes food news with Katie Kieffer

did you know we have a show entirely about cheese take a listen to do visual things on the radio but if you were all sitting in the studio you would see this wheel from from late May is quite pale in color it's a it's a little bit she have like I'm no cure sort of a very soft yellow and then though the wheel firmly June is quite golden an intense looking it's a really deep deep yellow what causes that that different portraits the grass that's the Keratin in the grass and that's giving it that yellow color not fat but it's definitely coming from from the pasture or animals are fed

hey through the winter now we we don't use fermented feed because that won't work with our cheese but so they're essentially grass spread around with green stuff you like what you hear cutting the curd airs every Monday at 4:30 p.m. on Heritage Radio Network make sure to subscribe to the podcast or check it out in our archives

hi I'm Steve Jenkins I work for Fairway markets in the New York area and we are awfully proud to support Heritage Radio and we care so much about everything that goes on out here at your bird is in their Studio because they talk to people who are serious about food and that's what we are at Fairways were serious about the food we just care very deeply about about you was in as a customer and how you cook and what you cook with and how you entertain and and that's why we love to support Heritage Radio because it is pretty much the same thing it's wanting to to find happiness through serious food and people who are serious about it and and care about learning everything there is to learn about Nets stats

Kindred Spirits if it's something worth having in your kitchen you're going to find it at at Fairway and if there's somebody worth talking to about food you're going to find them on Heritage Radio when we will be supporting you guys for a long long time at fairly I'm your personal grocer Steve Jenkins Fairway Market

following is a message from Heritage Foods USA. Com the difference between Atlantic salmon is just as great as the differences between commodity pork in Heritage breed pork huge Heritage Foods USA, is lining up a major social by of sustainably harvested salmon in July and offering it at a phenomenal price to Consumers check out Heritage Foods USA. Com for more details and how to get in on this opportunity to experience it should be