Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 364: The Conservation of Crap Giving w/ Seth Godin

today's program was brought to you by patina events at Brooklyn botanic garden and idyllic location for weddings corporate events and parties of any style visit us at patina

this week on Meat and three we're getting semantic to understand the deeper meaning behind some of the foods we love first we'll look at the big debate happening around the word milk who the hell are you to tell me what is the name of my product in my landscape and everything we've cared about when you know you don't have anything invested in except to put out a little money to buy it with our entire life then we get the lowdown on the language of cider so the first thing is really confusing about dryness is it has nothing to do with how something actually feels in your mouth and finally we get our fill of Tiki Talk this is what Polynesians probably like like it's it's supposed to be like fantasy and stuff that's the hard part it's so easy to do Tiki bad and that's where it gets a bad name m e a t plus sign three available wherever you listen to podcasts



People I was here before the clock turn 1201 I ran with it spins off all of my clothes and gear to go to Houston from the subway and I made it here before turn 1201 I called in to our our illustrious radio station here which has no cell service and said start the announcements now so they don't have to wait for me to get in there is no law there is no communication into the box this afternoon and then I get here so I want all of you guys to know I'm here before 12:01 suck it and blow it out your backside haters stuck it incredibly late start

Red Rock to such a good start today so how you doing my microphone you know you can't be in here without being in a microphone

we're getting really good qualities of cat walking rates we already have a caller in fact that we can you know we can wait a minute 40 seconds something on that and we have is our special guest today author podcaster marketing genius entrepreneur lover of food is it going how you doing fantastic how would you like us to reading and listening to some of the podcast I'm going to characterize kind of what I'm getting which is you're trying to help people figure out how to do something if they don't necessarily know the best way to get from A to B they know they want to move they know they want to make something but they're not sure that they have kind of the best strategy to get there is that fair that's part of it I think culture is a system and if you see how the system works you can make culture work for you and

against you and I think that people are afraid to make things better and I am trying to encourage them to make things better IQ I am against the enemies of quality to my small wooden kind of ice cream is foodie things that say enemies equality on enemy equality which I very much appreciate late you laser those yeah we talked about if you're interested later we can talk about new design machines old design machines and the systems and then lack of repairability on some of the new design machines and how that works out but in the meantime since that we had to call her when we when I'm sweating like a I'm sweating like a just about to be executed Pig

why would they call her call her you're on the air

yeah hi how's it going my name is Stevens Washington DC

go ape Kansas City BBQ Society competition and questions about brisket okay until you know these these proprietary blends of things and so there's always cook a beef stock and then they put sometimes there's like hydrolyzed plant-based proteins yes I was wondering like if you can point you in the right direction on how to start about 1 on my own if I have all those individual okay so all those are there because here's what they're worried about their barbecue was delicious before anyone jumps on me you like barbecue

I don't need me I ain't fine if I ate meat I would love by the way any any enemy of barbecue is dried and Western

that's what mothers ingredients are there for they're allowing you to beat the snot out of the meat and still maintain some moisture in it for the hydrolyzed vegetable protein is there as a water holding agent the phosphates are there as a a water holder that actually makes the meat itself hold on to its water better at higher temperatures and be with the other one you said was there's a flavor into an extra moisture that's going to be pumped out of it as you deliciously viciously overcook it in the barbecue process so all those things you know all those things work I mean I don't remember the percentages you know but you can look up like I used to I did once I don't have any remember my key

yeah he did he wants he was obsessed with juice in it if it was upset Dave juicy steaks let's go talk about juicy Stacy took me most uncomfortable dinner I've ever had in my life most I've ever had my life is with nastassia Lopez where she was completely angry that we were listening to somebody's discussion of their bowel ailments and other things and in return got to taste more citrus and we have ever seen in my entire life but she still never forgiven me for forcing her to sit through that uncomfortable lunch or dinner I ever had was at a strip club when Adam Perry Lang was I would believe was the Penthouse Club or something or is it anyway so I got to eat and discuss juicy steaks well no people around me were getting lap dances which I don't know you don't know me that's not my thing I did appreciate the hole that that mascara that makes sense mix mixing that kind of stuff with food and I might my anyway so

I can approve him that you see this isn't so important because I took sodium polyphosphate as sodium phosphate and grind it into a steak and made the steak increase its weight by about 10:15 % in water and then cooked it and lo and behold I had a juicy but not so flavorful steak so mostly you know back in the old days people would make stuff and it would be fine with without any of that I think all of that stuff just giving you wiggle room and so I don't really I'm also not a post when I'm not opposed to it they MSP is going to increase the flavor profile I would just say I would just start with some tests don't don't go to high in MSG I think that's the mistake people make is that when you when you add a little bit of MSG it's great and then all of a sudden you can tell that I missed you was at it and as soon as you can tell MSG was added it's a little bit off-putting in the same way that like who saw through that's good with salt salt salt and then and certain point that little bit extra salt you like but like

G I think has a sharper inflection point there's a wider range of properly salted things then there is a wide range of properly MSG things they shrimp the sodium hexametaphosphate River sodium you whatever phosphate after using you're not going to really I don't think you could look up the literature on it fairly widely available online if you just type in phosphates water holding capacity ameet just like type those things like phosphates water holding capacity meet like that stuff is pretty well-defined even on the on the you can go find it literature and then non-technical literature because industrial commercial people use it you know I'm not against that either but just realize that you know you're injecting hopefully with meat sauce or something with flavor because there's a whole group of people I happen to disagree with them but people like Kenji who are anti any sort of watt adding water to me because you're not adding it's not flavorful the water that you're adding I don't agree with that also like you know there is Harold McGee who you know I love

respect also at one point said not to brine turkey so that it made the gravy in edibly you know I have work around for every work for everything that you've application of a technology ingredients there is secondary things you need to change so you know I think all of it valid when done with nonprofit is mfi answered this question if you want to win your only two ways to win you win by sitting in all the way or standing out all the way so to fit in all the way you have to do it the way the current people are doing it but even more and if you want to win by standing out you have to do it differently than the people who are winning or doing it and that's the first choice you have to make a part of you that question.

so so I like your internal temperature for brisket should be somewhere between 195 and 205 why is it so high why don't they lower than that if you cook it normally I eat don't overcook it right they've been credibly tough because they are connective tissue makes it almost inedible at that point so the traditional way of cooking it is to cook it to a very high temperature such that the gel touch at the college in and connective tissues render into gelatin it's at gelatin that gives you the appearance that you haven't viciously overcooked it makes it cold in 4th 10 what your fork tendering it into our kind of shreds and viciously overcooked meat right now that's the texture people are shooting for and some that that's kind of what they're looking for they're looking for a Jew

the equivalent of that meat that can be pulled apart with a fork and a 150 it's never going to get it will it won't do that what will happen instead let's say you were to cook it for 72 hours at a low temperature

those fibers won't get as hard right they won't get like flaky apart like that. Get more mushy you'll get softer that's also not what they're looking for and so is completely accurate are you saying do what they want just more that's why they're adding MSG is what they want but more you know like a little bit more liquid a little bit more beef flavor it's what everyone's looking for but more if you go outside of their textual parameters you're going to lose I have to say that in competition food competitions especially I've never seen anyone win by going completely outside of the box I call this losing with style and I think this is a valid thing to do and I have lost many contests with I believe in men style and there is honor in this but in general I mean oh it's never you never win in those kind of things other than by choice one which is to do what they're doing but more so well said okay

cool thanks thanks but there's a lot of debate should I bring you doll should I go so I couldn't bring you that it wouldn't let it wouldn't last but instead I went with the rye bread I have a little grinder in my basement and I buy the rye berries at Union Square Market and the only ingredients I had are two kinds of barley malt the powdered one and the liquid and walnuts that's it I have to add walnuts even though my friend is she does deathly allergic to them I just put a little sign up no Walnut iodide are making progress so here's the secret of the rye bread is he going to rye bread is 12 hour break so you have a super load so this is like like like full-on like I would call German style pork full cornbread like long long bake turns dark on it so no caramel color except for 75 for an hour and a half and I turn the oven off and go to bed

dislike people who associate the flavor of Rye with the flavor of caraway seed a waiver Ribery over the thing use it or like it like that what's a what's a standard the standard American Deli Rye a New York Deli Roswell oticon Levy's levees what's the Jewish to like Levy's Rye sandwich bread by the way it's a fine sandwich bread but it's the rise totally refine I get almost no Rye flavor to it so so for those of you that don't eat your other things also have a full corn broke some really good stuff

we're talking Mouse bait for talking like this is like a for those of you that live in lands where this is only in a supermarket the brand of fulcrum brought you can get is relatively moist messermeister moccamaster Meyer the one that comes like there's a square and it's all sliced up and sit there for a week yeah yeah it's pretty good kind of noise but if you are you for that send this level yeah I like it when I cut this I cut it as soon as I can I'll try not to cut anybody want to show don't mind cutting noises but hate mouth noises they hate it

their mouth noises about to occur though I don't know how to apologize for that nastassia there you go whatever the initials are one of the acronym is have any idea what it means to be alone waster noises

but now it's so sorry I forgot to bring radio friendly food that was my fault

I can handle it the feedback is welcomed for the Multiverse really comes through as well as sweetness is conversion from are using diastatic malt or using phone lately right so I'm going to eat during the commercial break I need more, and we haven't even got a chance to mess with you I am so sad I will save the Mezcal tasting that talks about last week is in the times today how is it thank well cuz we talked about it last week so when is the next Celtics game

who do the Friday at 6:30 p.m. just down the street at the El Cortez do people have to reserve in advance where do they go r e d perfect thanks Seth Godin for the wind

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hey are you enjoying this podcast Heritage Radio network has plenty more my name is Cathy erway and I'm the host of eat your words here in a jar in every week I sit down with food writers to talk about their newest work from colorful cookbook the food Memoirs on the food industry topic for discussion you can find where ever you listen to podcasts and on Heritage Radio Network. Collier on the air

doing fine and two questions one laying the carbonation and one relating to calm Buell and I have like the carbonation I have a Kegerator that I used to live in an apartment 34 Fahrenheit and 45 PSI and it just comes out amazingly fast and give us a little aesthetic bath each time I do a group and I can have that doesn't come out blasting at me see you keep the cake in the refrigerator and you carbonated out out of the refrigerator and what kind of what kind of whatever came with it

people who sell things don't necessarily understand are using this is the secret one of the secrets I've learned in like my life is at the people just because someone sells it does not actually make them an expert in the usage of said thing what what kind of tubes do you have are they clear vinyl tubes

correct this person might not be a bad human being but I like those too eventually I mean maybe not in your house but like if you were going to beat them up or have them in a professional environment those tubes will fail I only use braided braided tubes so that they don't fail also I hate I hate PVC if I need to use PVC if I buy from the beverage suppliers they sell the cheap braided PVC it invariably smells bad makes me very angry you can get it's a lot pricier but you can if you must have a flexible flexible tube you can get a braided tygon to buy tigon on Amazon people will rip you off and give you regular PVC instead of tigon Tiger has a high Purity PVC and it's still if you hate me it's still PVC but

it. It tends not to smell but it's you know on the order of like you know between like a like to $2 to Dollars $53 a foot somewhere like this spring for that that's a lot more than how many feet you're running and you but it you know gas you can run in a regular braided PVC line please don't run gas and then I'm braided line eventually someone will puncture it and then and if you really need something tough get the get the polyethylene Eva jacketed stuff it never apart any flavor whatsoever and I've never seen it fail and I've tried to make it failed repeated abuse will not make it feel second thing when you're feeling up a Kegerator remember to fill it completely with water and then Purge it out with CO2 then pressurize your stuff into it if you want to make sure that there's no air into it if using a carburetor if you're already getting a good enough the reason your phone is one your TAP stinks go get a a Becker don't get to Cornelius when actually it's been failing me get the Becker squeeze valve get that that

first thing you need to do to put into your line those picnic Tabs are the worst thing that's ever happened the second reason your fault you're putting it in your not putting it through a Coldplay second thing you need to because you're in a Kegerator second thing I would do is run it through about 15 ft of hose on the inside of your 15-20 ft of hose on the inside of your refrigerator to give it time to kind of like laminar and slow out before it leaves your TAP try it if it doesn't help then take it out there's no reason to have an extra $2 but give it a shot and the third problem is is that you it sounds to me like you have some air in your system and when you have are we having a hurricane like the thing I told you to get rid of all the air in by either you can you can pressurize an and end up vent a couple of times at the top the thing to get it to go but if any errors remaining in your system under pressure when you release the pressure that things like nitrogen which are in oxygen which are almost completely insoluble will form micro nucleation sites the minute they come out of the tap and foam out on you so

here are maybe asking tubing before the outlet and please throw it at picnic tap and get a decent app for those of you who aren't yet on the Seltzer lifestyle you have persuaded my son who is built one in my office as well you got the nitrogen Seltzer what you don't talk about enough on the air there's a lot to be said for the Selzer lifestyle it's worth a try by the way I hate Flatwater I won't drink it like my my sons are like I will if I have to be hydrated but I threatened my family because I don't want them to put me in Seltzer to the situations like they can I threatened him that I just won't I will just I will let myself dehydrate into a raisin rather than eat or drink non carbonated water and so they kind of make fun of it before it but honestly you know it's not that it's a little bit of a hurdle to like make your life carbonated and it's totally worth it you know and it's it's actually you know

stream is what it takes to get you there then get his get a SodaStream but there are cheaper ways to have infinite Seltzer what am I talking about what do by the way if you're going to listen which one of the podcast akimbo is the one that you want people to listen to now or no dust Mike podcast if they want to listen to it that be great here is a and that here is here is a word to the wise I am I'm stubborn and so like I started listening to it and reverse I'm like I'm going to listen to the most recent stuff first and then go backwards and I realized not after the most recent one cuz you didn't take questions on the most recent one by on the one after that that you were going to answer questions from the podcast before on this week's podcast and for some reason this didn't encourage me to then start working from the back and going up for some reason I'm like I'm just going to listen to questions without knowing what the heck you talking about

I do that you like

tell you know a lot a lot of a lot of a again it's like you seem to have a very kind of open view of what a Creator is right most of the stuff that I've heard you talk about or you know you read the work is aimed at people who want to do something you know create a writ large you make new things make things better right yep focus on make things better now here's a question for someone who runs in or helps to run a bar or restaurant or you going to stop here and you know that that Outlander pasta flyer or starting my run Booker's dad right you're not always maybe you shouldn't even always be working with creative people right so like it seems to me that there's kind of a and the other thing I can say about your work and I'm going to I'm going to let you go to some can get kind of like hard people understand if they don't already already familiar with your work is that

Alana like this is kind of what I like is that use your focus a lot on kind of your personal response personal responsibility in word Lee Focus like what you can do about yourself and you know the more I was reading the more I'm like okay look at it until my kids this all the time don't be concerned about externalities Edwards what's fair don't be concerned that that person has more money than I do or that person has some sort of benefit that that I don't have Focus only on stuff that you can control about yourself but the flip side of that is if you can design has if you're designing a system you do have to worry about kind of fairness and not everyone can you know then I also have to worry about people that can't be creative and what does it mean to be good to someone like that it's not to try to necessarily force him to be better at being creative right meme I was with you in the last sentence well I think makes him feel completely uncomfortable to there's people who really desire

the safety of knowing what to do but how your point is that

someone who wants that safety-net give him that safety-net if that's like give them the chance to be that creative person but then you really think we should try to force someone to be that person even if they're not so the reason that I love the two of you and I do and I've been listening since before you were famous and into the bar is because you have a growth mindset and the growth mindset says things could be better and once you acknowledge the things can be better the next step is and I could make them better that I don't have to make macaroni and cheese the same way every time I can make my macaroni and cheese better I believe everyone at one point in their life has made something better and went you can make something better once your Creator and if your creator you can do it again and if we live in a culture where everyone is trying to make things better then we can have interesting conversations about what does better even mean does better mean more open more diverse is better mean just one person wins

those are interesting conversations but we have to begin with guess what you can make things better and my career coincides with the birth of the internet and what that means is you don't need CBS Radio to give you a shot you can make your own show you don't need Julia Child to tell you you're allowed to cook something for recipes you can make your own recipe and wet that's what candy came from who is Kenji Canyon have a permit but can you showed up shared something he had to say and some people wanted to hear it so in the face of all that Infinity my argument is she the system make it better and that's why I just keep saying over and over and over again be responsible for your work and nothing is fair but at least you can make it better kind of related to that I'm also a firm believer that just because

there's so many more people doing things now doesn't mean that everyone that much better but it doesn't make it that much harder for you to do something if you have something to say right cuz you can be interesting you don't have to be correct right and also just because everyone can make well as his to control my age back when people actually want to make magazines remember oh my God anyone can make a magazine now you don't need you don't need to work to make a magazine like you still need to be good to make something good just because it's easier to make something Clause doesn't mean it's easy to make something good exactly so you know typography ran screaming after they came out with desktop publishing but true topographers figured out that just cuz people have funds doesn't mean they know how to make things right rent what do you think about our our belief in self self in Friendly self-loathing are you all right with that

there are already enough people in the world who wanted to go get pleasure out of bringing us down who get pleasure out of criticism you don't have to do it to yourself I guess

the drive for self-loathing stops you from becoming complacent right if you use it properly but what it really does is it gives you a place to hide because you're experiencing failure in advance over and over again oh yeah but I'm all about the failure

how about if you fail

if you can't handle failure you'll never going to give you never going to succeed if you can't handle different kind of failure you're working really hard talking about the failure of I did something to see but if you fail an advanced you never get it you're just giving yourself an excuse but you know I'll give a talk and people raise their hand and then at the end they all run up to ask you their secret question like what was wrong with asking you a question in public when I was there to answer your question while it might have been stupid so you're going to ask the quest the stupid question in private we're not going to ask a stupid question public that creates a cycle of constant experience of failure in private which doesn't benefit anyone versus your generous Act of being willing to fail in public because you put something into the world and at least we learned one new thing that doesn't work and my partner

dislike most public questions because they don't think the person actually has a question they just think that the person what would cause the way you put it they just want to say someone I have a question for day they want to let Dave know that they've been working on something real stuff

I don't know I have no opinion on this no publicly shareable Canyons on Cooks a lot so let's talk a lot about writer's block no such thing no such thing and it applies to assume any sort of I need to create correct painting cooking right now

you want to talk a little bit about your view on writer's block for it and I can I can I have been I've been poked and queried on the topic I think I just block his invented no one gets plumbers block no one gets walking block where did by Tupac come from what if you look at the literature there what it wasn't even used as a term before 1925 was invented by Ernest Hemingway in the Great American novel that before that writing was a thing you did in your spare time it wasn't a referendum on your quality is human it was just an act that you performed and so if we say I don't have any good ideas what we're really saying is I'm not willing to work my way through an unlimited number of bad ideas on my way to finding a good idea I just don't have the perfect one yet so I was friends with Isaac Asimov your driver to the project with him four hundred bucks published four hundred bucks I said I think how do you do that he said every morning I said this typewriter 6:30 in the morning and I type for 5 and 1/2 hours till noon

and then I'm done and it doesn't matter if I type something good I just have to type and once your brain sees you're going to type one way or the other your brain will come up with something decent and the same thing is true if you trying to develop a new recipe for trying to open a restaurant can do anything if you your you persuade the resistance as precio calls it that you're going to do it and you keep doing it sooner or later one of your bad ideas will it turn out to be a good one so I plugged every day for 7,000 blog posts in a row and I don't block tomorrow because it's perfect I block tomorrow cuz it's tomorrow so I think you know part of what might be letting us through like it

people think that artists use artists or writers they think that there's something super impressive going on there from the day-to-day thing they did a standpoint the same with Cooks anyone else and I always say to them having been trained as a visual artist you know a trained on his diss we say the matter is is that the veneration with which we hold people in Creative positions means that we don't really understand what those people are doing on a day-to-day basis exactly right and I try to demystify that because I don't think Bob Dylan is a particular genius I think he just shipped often

well I mean

with the ship the shipping is is is the thing so when we look at people we we tend to think about the stuff that they put out in public right which musician hopefully writer in hopefully is there better stuff right away they think is better brisket right right but my point is is that people ask me this a lot so I've come up with some bar technique some food techniques things like this people say so what's the next so what's the next what's the next thing I'm like well how should I know how can I know what the next thing is because that's I think we're this whole idea comes from that there are these kind of and there are actually in fact massive leaps of understanding that happened to practice it does happen you know but the fact of the matter is is that you can't sit in a corner and wait for the good stuff to happen you have to be working on a

right oh right now I'm working on problems with nastassia on the next you know product that we're going to make if we can I guess you know tangentially talk about tell us you know on stuff for the bar I'm working on certain kind of technical flow problems but I'm not working on any problems right now that are going to come up with a fantastic new style of drink I'm not today by one second because you talked about this last week my wife owns for bakeries and her Chief baking officer invented fudgie the whale

and did they know Tom Carvel yes she works his time she was 18 years old town car if I was your boss how was Tom Carvel Tom Carvel was a fine fine man went would Kathy went to get a mortgage for her house he was angry at her that she did she didn't just say can you back this and he called the bank officer without telling her to make sure that the mortgage would go through the whole thing so as you know you can't leave the stuff in the Taylor machine overnight and so he he was Google is like what should we do we need to make cakes with the leftover ice cream overnight that sell him tomorrow and he said and they say necessity mother and veggies if Tom had waited for the perfect ice cream cake there would never have been fudgie the whale cuz fudgie the wells and imperfect ice cream well did it did it start as fudgy and then get turn into Santa or did it seem like a lot of production problems because the tail was can break and soul

turn off Kathy's Innovations was making fudgy wudgy because if you make fudgy vanilla he doesn't have the structural integrity and apparently chocolate or the crumbles or something give it to the tale that thing and then there was Cookie Puss in the whole idea of turning upside down if you prompt her a little bit about fudgie the whale but I haven't heard all of that works for both of you back here talk about fudgie the whale first of all for those who I happen to think it's going to say this I'm not an icing guy but Frozen icing is on point and bit like to tooth to know that I even know someone who came up with the ice cream cake with the rumble in the middle and a Carvel ice cream cake and I don't think it's just paste memory I think they're good I think they are good thing I like them do you like them I certainly have a proustian relationship with them I don't think I would go out of my way to have one today

better than if they're better than most anything I mean I mean no offence Baskin-Robbins but I mean offense Baskin-Robbins the memory for anyone who grew up on the East Coast Wednesday this Sunday is it called that people that you used to look up too or just vile

yeah it does and one of the things I've tried really hard to do is separate the work from the worker because otherwise we're just going to have to throw out so many things that mattered to us going to become more and more of a kind of a problem I think there's no one's people have been dead for awhile they kind of no one goes and dredges up their stuff or you just don't care anymore I mean people people aren't like but I'm not going to listen to bognor right you're like well you know what I mean it's like you know but it's tough to say I mean I remember when I used to really idolize Chuck Yeager loser you know the famous test pilots right and then you know when I was a kid when I still idolized him I found out that you know he was one of the people who was and it's maybe wrong that's what I was told and it affected when viewed it was one of the guys who prevented African American has a new book coming out in

4 weeks it's so good about the Apollo mission on 50th anniversary and Chuck Yeager's got three pages it is cold to do it and you didn't like being told what to do now I mean I met him when I was a kid I used to go to the Experimental Aircraft Association meeting at Oshkosh to fly and cool and you know I had a copy of his meows it is book with him on the front with the Bell X-1 which was the first plane to break sound barrier later that year

he's a vicious places. He was just a vicious disciplinarian the hero the book is Arthur C Clarke which I didn't know the science fiction long time ago but he told this guy is the troll not artistic like this other guy whose name I can't remember his proposal right around the time of Sputnik was it the US should launch nuclear with weapons at the moon and make a giant crater that could be seen from the earth as their example of just being able to piss on whatever they wanted and then be done and it was persuaded the United States not to do that hey can we still do that

at 3 can we go back and revisit this idea

that's so yeah that's so like like late 50s early 60s hardcore only they actually tried it I have no idea back to you see if we have any issues with the parts safety part perception in Sacramento what are your thoughts on Sacramento you ever go there you never been to the capital of state you grew up in at least I know you're very patriotic

what's wrong with being patriotic

are you saying on are that you hate your country no I'm just not patriotic that even me I'm not I'm just not as patriotic as you

like to claim this I don't understand what it is you wearing red white and blue should cut her a little Slack

it's like going out of your way back when you say no offense do you like that means there's some ship there there's something I don't understand

I don't know are you patriotic I think that there are trappings of patriotism that are often used in ways that aren't associated with what you're talkin about why can't we have him here every day he actually makes a lot of money for what you truly said made according to everything I've read intact hole muscle cuts are soon to be internally stair oil contamination with evil buzz like salmonella and campylobacter result from surface contamination unless the meat is punctured the inside is still sterile but I'm going to stop right there before you can go even further talk to any food safety expert and they're like how do you know if it wasn't punctured you know what I mean and plus and crannies on a piece of chicken meat that there aren't necessarily in a whole me know when The Inn at stake are a lot alike you know muscle separations even on a chicken breast that's a little Play Systems can hide

and plus I'm like a steak so when you're fabricating a steak let's say you take a rib apart and then you slice the rib there's a lot less knife poking towards that piece of meat then there would be in let's say ripping the breast off of the chicken okay and also every part of a chicken that you can touch is closer to the guts and to the processing area of the slaughter than almost any part of the beef that you're going to start

this is why it is considered acceptable to serve a rare steak for example if this is the case why are we so hysterically obsessed with cooking poultry until the internal temperatures in the pasteurization ring the problem Nate isn't that were obsessed with cooking it to Patrick Nation range is it where it says to cooking it well above the pasteurization range room sets with cooking it to a temperature where everything dies within like 10 to 15 seconds and at those temperatures a 10 to 15 second death range temperature you're looking at horrendously overcooked it's 100% true that even you can cook something till to pasteurize and still have it looked the most people's eyes and viciously undercook so they're there is a there is a wide Gulf between perception of safety and actual safety which I think the real problem that we need to and also you know there's a risk to eating you know anything undercooked and I as a semi relatively healthy you know not yet hopefully immunocompromised individuals willing to take this risk on the regular so there's also that pic

obsessed with cooking poultry until internal temperatures in the pasteurization range even more Mattingly maddeningly why do we freaked out about undercooked chicken but rare doctor swab is considered not only acceptable but desirable because we are hypocrites Hypocrites we

okay that's a good part I would I didn't expect that part coming up that was a good ending to that

people have an internal Revolution too because of the way they're brought up to looking at undercooked chicken or poultry and for some people also pork so it's just

and they're not going to overcome that so like this is not logic like why duck different I mean it would pass over around the corner why is it supposed to be different than any other poultry well I think they were raised to even like. Cultures are there. Cultures mean France in China do they have the aversion to French overcooked air duct okay well now we've come up with something that duct Works cuz it's a foreign feeling poultry right allowed to have another and in Turkey they kept going to overcome somebody's also duck has a different fundamental texture duck is more steak like duck breast this is talk about what we're talking about cuz like rare duck leg is like oh my God what do I have to have to spend all night at dinner how do you know what I mean but like like like a medium rare duck breast has a steak

hair texture I would say then not flavors take your texture then a chicken breast fast enough and you can do an entire show about fear of turkey because of Thanksgiving it comes with so much overhead of your worthiness as a member of the family and I think that spreads into food safe while because you're worried about your family because you worry about seeming incompetent seeming lesser cuz you don't love to cook and so we add all these side dishes that we would don't eat the rest of the year not cuz they're good but because they're part of the the Trope of this is what it means to love your family is that you have this thing and then what it means to be a TV Watcher cuz that's looks like a butterball cuz they advertise that for forty years and and all of that the elements of culture that has nothing to do with the facts of will this food make you sick right and piggyback on that I think that equating love with the app


is can be extremely toxic for those of us that like to cook right loves what's it like to cook it is a good way to express our desire to do things for others by cooking right for those of us that don't like to cook it should not be made it seem like you must cook in order to show your your love Brothers being thrown to the huge problem and I think I know people that are are guilty that we ordered out again are we look you're incredibly talented and other things right you know you're so my wife is actually enjoy it but she sometimes you feel very guilty and like you're like an incredibly successful architect why should you have to want to cook like why is it have anything to do with you or you know ability to you know be you know what to be a loving parent you know it's it's a people don't necessarily have other people do their laundry for them but if you could you would

can you wouldn't say oh I don't love my family because somebody else is washing their clothes you know what I mean like so family dinner is important and my son works on family dinner is just what is non profit does not because of the cooking but because of the sitting at the table together for breaking bread and we associate the two with each other when they don't have to be associated with each other we had family dinner every Sunday for two decades at like the past like as like a lot of members of family live in New York and had their own kids become less thing but I think it's important to have a meal at least a a standing invite like once a week to get a file of a family dinner yeah yeah I mean my youngest when we when the kids are going up we would cook dinner together every night for the four but mon I would spend hours doing it cuz the actual Act of cooking not the part of I'm going to feed you but the part of we are standing next to each other that's just Priceless and so it's

really interesting that when we're talking about can I take the temperature of chicken down that's sort of turning it into a sport but it coming not from this basis of sporting competitions coming from this basis of this is how we Define ourselves as humans went out drinking Soylent all day long at AMA X waiting to be replaced by AI I hope you are exactly I think that the number of people who lost their jobs to steam engines steam shovels who are ditch-diggers was very large and most of them in the long run we're relieved and I think that computers are going to keep replacing the part of our job we don't want to do if we can find the guts to be willing to do the other parts of the job that put us on the spot

right when I first started working at the French culinary years ago it was run by a you know a French chef named alarm sciac who still around he's a he's a cool dude and because I was a tech guy he says he always said that he always said to me that you and his mind my goal was to go Jetsons and to have you know all the food being forms of Dino pills you know and then he would point to people like you know had his kind of mechanistic we're just going to like we're going to do you know the same way that they come up with antibiotics make a billion sausage and he was like this is what you think cookie is going to be comforted well I mean I hope not I mean unless it taste better than what right does it taste better than what you know of thinking caring person can do then I hope not but you know if you can do a better job then okay you know you couldn't do anything

I was under way right is a different sense of a lot of that was just my child garbage right you know like I can't like yell at it or whatever you know what I mean like talking too much out of turn here but you know famous three michelin-star David kinch you know now miss talking to me and he was an early adopter of kind of low temperature in CVS was Keller and there was a period of time or why don't know my seven eight years ago when those kind of chefs really started pulling back from sous vide and low temperature interesting lately I don't really know Thomas Keller I remember me if I kick him in the face but you know when you

even I think his book came about on load on TV low temperature came out right around the time he was pulling back on using the stuff in the kitchen and so I said to Ken shows like what why are you he just got a new phone a he was shooting for 3 stars and he was chasing the star at the time and I was like why why are you pulling back on TV. It's a great it's a great technique and he's like well you know I find I can get a better result by and then he starts telling me like kind of a super old school technique you so he's got this giant Bonet which is maintaining its own I don't think he was I think he was trying to do no temp cooking like high high input to make the skin or the outside the right texture low input to not overcook the inside manually

I don't like why why when I can solve for those two problems separately like some my whole life part of my life is teaching people that low temperature this is wrong it's like it's like you can separate the problems of you can separate their two problems getting the texture of the outside right and getting the temperature inside right and yes by being some sort of like ninja Jedi you can get them to come together using old techniques you know and you can get them to come together at the same time and performed his minor miracle but unless you do it all the time the odds of failure are much higher and your odds of getting it right right out of the bat are much higher than just controlling these two problems separately you know what I mean but for kids like unless he was riding that line of I am I'm doing it this way I'm putting all the input in all the time it wasn't good for him anymore

play me least that's the impression I got from him and I was like I was like this. You will hate this I'm sure Seth wear and you know the more I see it in myself and other people we have a we have a limit like we all have different amounts that we give a crap in general right but even the one of us a give the most crap eventually we bend and break eventually we compromised eventually we give up on something right yeah and I think we don't have an infinite amount of that inside of us and so if you waste conservation of crap giving

2 problems of the event texture on the inside of touch on the outside and not worry about that be so much more energy to focus on some other problem is the problem is when we just routinized it and stop thinking and so many people have been driven by a convenience Cana me to just swipe swipe swipe it doesn't Matthew Mathers hear you're saying you still need to give a crap and let's conserve it appropriately and I said to him so you don't use that you don't use low temp sous vide at all anymore it's like now I'm like squab he's like okay okay

I knew it for a second so I have a vintage like late 80s early 90s lesson Marco 85 + 1 group machine to my house right I got the Olympia crimini old school give me a bag

great remove best cup of coffee I've ever had which is going to sound crazy espresso shot I've ever had that says before it was from a lever pull an old Victoria Arduino left lever pull at a tradeshow there you go and a guy comes up to me and he's like would you like a shot and I was a lever machine I was like yeah sure and he pulls his shot on what are you doing you should be so can we do a picture of a roasting your own beans cuz anyone who cares about coffee needs to roast a problem with my Breville the Breville Corporation gave me one of their Oracle superado things and I put it in a place where I wasn't going to be all the time so that we can someone else you just walk in and push a button get the coffee right granted

so on my last San Marco one of the solenoid went bad in a spectacular way last week and they were feeling so annoyed so that the things filled up to the brim then try to pressurize itself over pressure to started spraying boiling water everywhere all over everything and I was like

open the sucker up and I diagnose it but then I look at the solenoid part of it now bear in mind an old espresso machine is a lot like an old car you can open it up look at the pipes and see what's going on and so I was able to figure out what was wrong like fairly quickly was a solenoid but then there's no replacement to even something old right that's so annoyed if I would have had to buy the whole solenoid right from Italy right which would like a lot or buying American replacement figure out how to clutch the plumbing together and and that's only like a hundred bucks I rip the solenoid apart because thankfully it's all screwed together it's not in a molded in any Tire failure the machine was due to a non replaceable rubber discs that was a ceiling up the pilot to Pilot or if it's on the on the on the thing was not really know what I mean and I was like it was gone and so I was like this my entire life is predicated on being able to have

because of espresso in the morning and my entire espresso game is predicated on this like you know machine it's plugged into my wall working it in turn is predicated on this solenoid cent piece of rubber piece of rubber not replaceable by the way it's failed luckily you know my partner Don has a laser cutter at work so I went in rip the thing out laser cut the rubber put it in the machine was up and running the next day but I had a similar problem on my on my Oracle where the three-way so for those either make a espresso there's a three-way valve on the group that either applies pressure from the pump to the group had to make espresso and then depressurize is it to Atmosphere. When you open up your group head you don't you know I have that problem failed me open so that it never pressurize the group a was always going into drain mode

you cannot get into that Oracle to save your life because modern design is not designed to be replaceable is designed to be as compact as humanly possible and and nothing almost nothing is easily gettable replaceable or standard which means that a no $2,000 machine can turn into a piece of garbage because literally inside of their I know there is a $0.02 piece of rubber that is fail and it's pathetic and I understand the advantages of it but then also like are we ever going to get back to creating things that are repairable well companies want to make something that's repairable people don't want to buy it

and that's the problem. Cost more it is more difficult to acquire in the sense that it cost more in his bigger and clunkier and because most of the people who are buying the stuff don't use it the way they used a 1948 Chevy pickup truck they're using it for 3 years and then moving on where they're putting it in their fancy kitchen and never even turning it on so they're the consumers voting over and over again in favor of convenience not in favor of longevity in control and even when people buy if you go to Maker Faire right the Maker Faire store which should be filled with tools like we're talking about is filled with kits because kids are taught by their parents to follow the instructions make the kit and that would save Lego Lego was going bankrupt selling normal Lego and only when they invented kits with instructions did they save the company

so you're saying I hate this I hate I hate yeah because who's going to invent the next thing we need more Engineers okay go real quick Marco arment the guy who invented Tumblr comes over to my house cuz my Slayer is just not making good coffee and he lives down the street he loves coffee it says I can't help you with that why can't you help me just cuz you don't roast your own once you roast green beans we can talk about this so I went to Sweet Maria's which is a website and you can buy a Korean coffee roaster it looks like a tennis ball can 350 bucks pays for itself after 20 pounds of beans which one which one which one of the roasters is that I stopped ordering from them even though I thought they're green coffee was better than the other suppliers because they had a hack problem once and I really yeah like a bunch of credit card numbers got stolen probably fix it probably fix a good people

bring it outside to roast pumped a hole in the laundry room window dryer vent vent and I haven't burned my house down yet and it's better this is roaster have a catalyzer on the outside I don't know what is catalyzed to check it so so I used to do so is this one you're doing mimicking drummers Dominican Are drum drum like a pound every two weeks so it's not like I'm ready or drum guy apparently so mean like the big thing you have to decide in your life is are you in are person or a drunk person right so Michael Civic switch who is that the early one of that he wrote one of the more important like technical coffee books of the was it in the seventies I gave you say the most important than it was 50 years after youkers all about coffee and you know the early 1900s

so he came up with this idea about the book and then a bunch of like well in air popcorn popper is pretty much like a fluidized bed roaster and so there was all those early are popcorn people but those produce a very different roast profile then the drum so I started roasting and there's a what's the name of the guys his name is David last name I think is David a first name is David wrote the early book on home roasting from the late 80s early 90s I'm talking about, don't worry about it just start roasting he's like don't worry you're not going to be like you're not going to be as good as the best roaster don't worry about it just to be mean and so I think we read his book relatively early on and so I I constantly know how to worry but you know I don't necessarily worried because I'm not trying to miss I'm not trying to hold

repeat the best person on Earth you know what I mean anyway so I started as an air guy but I would prepare chili burn them out even though I bought a couple of the purpose made early coffee roaster that were based on Prop Hunt rules for technology and Fry em like Crouch roast asymmetrically oh yeah I don't have a computer chip you tell it how long and what temperature and it just does its thing in 34 minutes later it's done drum roaster that is similar to the burn sample roaster look at it but the problem is obvious in the long way to get to the problem people to smoke the smoke is intense if you smell like good coffee just smells like coffee coffee and also it's

by the way they talked about this last week air quality anyway so this is not like a friendly smoke this is a full of crap sticky smoke has done the study cuz there's not enough coffee workers but here's an interesting fact the next time you roast in a place where you wear so my roaster has a a whole 3 inches across and that's where all the smoke comes out of if you hold it open Torch right at the opening it burns all the smoke and professional Roasters have like almost like an afterburner catalyzer that will come fully combust clever the smoke and if it goes clear and then it doesn't ruin everything so you can

really mitigate and I swear there might be one of the higher-end home Roasters they can do this it can mitigate the smoke is being Mason's think we'll just have a cooling tray going after the cycle is done until it's at room temperature so just keep spinning Until It's cool cuz I never did that feel like I stick it into it into like a Tammy which amounts like a winnowing bank right I sit there and I toss it up in like toss it back and forth and the chaff gets know this point let's say let's say people that you're in a place and you know you're not going to be there you only going to be there let's be having like a place really going to be a couple times a month right its hardness are they keep good coffee there the point you can keep good green beans they last a lot longer you show up as part of the state of people

people say

you have to wait after you roast the beans you know what you don't really it's just different okay cuz I've been I've been waiting list of all it's evolving CO2 more rapidly right after you roast me not the main problem we have to wait for it but there's one thing it's not the same but it's not like you're going to die of poisoning by having the coffee right after you roasted it's just different right now and we keep changing the definition of what good coffee supposed to be I mean like before Howard Schultz showed up people said good coffee or something different and then after people got over the Howard Schultz thing people said good coffee or something at least give me the cool person I forgot who it was he was like am I bad person because I don't like like these kind of like high acid fruity coffees

bad person just I was like you just tell people what you want not like people who produce those coffees can produce exactly what I made you like milk chocolate you're a bad person but you had these what were they use nuts instead of milk where it's just like they're like it's like low sugar high cocoa solids they're still giving people less of a less slack when it comes to Chocolate cuz there is an axis there but was coffee you can go a different quadrants and be very happy yeah I like I like a less wine if you want to sound like it's like to not too whiny but you know you know I don't got a lot of like and not a lot of Barry and red fruit in it and then I'll be like I don't even wear a skirt to be chocolate give you an email give you what you want right question that I think is on this topic I want to hear about the Slayer worth it? Looking at it

I loved how much technology was in it I felt like it totally disconnected me from the active ask that's why I went straight to the manual ever after that and I was able to sell the Slayer for fine price so I didn't feel guilty about it and it's beautiful and brilliantly engineered but I felt like I had no idea what was going on and your liver is commercial style engage spring not lever Direct on piston right I pull it down in the coffee comes out while I'm pulling it down so she can be my Bonnie if I was out all the Eagles and stuff like I used to have I still have if anyone wants it I'm going to sell it soon because I asked I have a micro chimbly which is the smallest machine that works on the spring lever principal so like most likely Victoria Miller you pull down

appears as you release because you're engaging a spring what I love about those machines is that you know pressure profiling all the rage right has five years but the pressure Pro find anyone really cares about pressure profiling is building that pressure profile on the fact that lever pull machines make I'm sorry to say this not as much, but a better tasting cup of coffee like espresso to my taste for what I want I don't really care about the crime of that much I know some people get rid of it from I like it like that the pressure slowly getting less over the course of the shot actually has an effect on the extraction can I happen to like rice in the in the early in the late 90s early 2000 everyone was all about o static pressure pressure have to be right and so they're like if you don't have a proton pump in your machine which is a you-know-what vane pump that can provide a relatively static pressure pressure is good and it and its pressure

he will provide a relatively static pressure you can look at your needle in it's pretty rock-solid special and they all this good system and you never going to get it as good a cup of coffee with what they call a euchre pump which is a reciprocating pump pressure with those I don't think that's necessarily true focus on that and then the pressure profilers realize weight Liverpool machines make this awesome shot and it's you know because it's reduction in pressurized Slayer let you do anything you can rest at the curve anyway you want and if you're the kind of person wants make 30 cups and not lose your sense of taste along the way you can tweak it for me it was too much data and I just like feeling the coffee pushing back against me as I'm pulling the thing and feeling like I'm gaining skill that's why I do but also

coffee is not like me even if I can a blind taste that you would prefer the coffee out of the other machine

the enjoyment of making it the way you want to make it right is a valid enjoyment cuz we're not double-blind right you're not right you should do what increases your overall enjoyment Bingo anyway it's been a pleasure having you on Seth please come on again. This is because I've written at twice we've made these collectible editions with an 800 page 17 lb book of the last few years of my blog almost no one has one but I wanted anastacio to have one cuz it's basic physics shall we put it in the mail inbox to confuse people and part of its written in Polish and part of its Einstein on the spine and I got this note from the sky and here is a nice I got this note from a guy and he says I received a package from you and I did not order it and I right back thing that's $195 book you bought

you sent me is in Polish did you open it at this all by email to everyone a day thanks. Can't read polish

anyway pleasure thank you so much again for fun I'm sure people will enjoy actually having things they can do or you have contributed so much to my family and our Delight in and listen to I shredded the Box

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