Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 361: Don Lee is a Marketing Genius (w/ Nicholas Morgenstern of Morgenstern's Finest Ice Cream)

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8U freak Pizzeria in Bushwick I'm doing great how you how you are the founder proprietor of morgenstern's ice creams and and what else to tell people about yourself here so I got to stores in New York I got rid of all my other Ventures last year so I got morgenstern's finest ice cream originally at 2 Rivington and then I got the new store at 88 West Houston somewhat close to each other but really they're completely different neighborhood I think they're definitely closed and concerned about capitalization on the old store with a new store but we haven't seen any of that so there's diet

hard fans of the old store and they like it for different reasons the new store is much larger and offers a lot of other things that little one doesn't but the little one is maybe easier to access and it is a different neighborhood so might you describe your yes we talked about ice cream on are here A bunch you know people always right in and we're like you need talion stuff is like super heavy stabilized don't let them lie to you and say it's not like a lot of times that's not saying all the time for a lot of super-heavy stabilize super-heavy saturated colors like a lot of flavoring to overcome the maximum amount of stabilization and by the way I find that stuff to taste good I am I enjoy it then you have other people on the other end of the spectrum we've talked about you some eggs and temperature pasteurization and whether you cook it long enough to get the texturized ineffective cook eggs or just do minimal pasteurization so you don't get that stuff just to give you like that kind of background

if you've already discussed you fit and then if you want to talk about for instance like old-school eggless like Philly style go ahead do you want to talk about we talk about lack of stabilization and way Breyers used to be and how it doesn't last in a freezer case so just give us some give us some some philosophy of ice cream do you feel so for us we don't use eggs in any of our ice cream unless it is an egg flavored ice cream so we have 88th flavors on our menu at our Flagship location now and of those eighty-eight two of them have eggs one is an American custard vs. custard style ice cream and then we have a french vanilla with his of vanilla ice cream that's made with an egg from a glass top so everything else has made no eggs it's cream milk sugar salt every recipe assault and then there's going to be a little bit of milk powder and a little bit of glucose and that's it and then whatever the flavoring is so very little

DIYs you don't trust people to keep it properly Wholesales not really a part of my model this is not like for what we do is a business and and how we want to bring the product to the consumer I sell to people who really get what we do who really want to have it and they handle it the same way that we do but they also are an extension of our brand because of the way that they talk about our product in the store in the way that they get it to the customer the same way so nothing against like there's certainly business in New York to be done with wholesale ice cream but that's just not the direction that I'm going and it's just not really it's not what I want to do so that a call in your ice cream lady questions to 718-497-2128 at 718-497-2128 or shoot him over to the chat room and not I'll read them out now so would you consider yourself like where do you where do you come to this style of ice cream do you come from a Philly style background or is it just this is where you arrive

describe how you got to this place works as a pastry chef for a long time made a lot of ice cream mostly creme anglaise style like that would have been done in fine dining restaurants where you're making pretty small recipes pretty small batches so you have a lot of control over the process and that's the way that I was trained to do it started to explore non egg products in maybe like 2006/2007 when we were getting unpasteurized raw milk by the gallon from for story Hill Farms still bringing it to us just on the side I probably shouldn't blow them up it was a long time ago and so you know this stuff that they were bringing us was still warm and so it was like very very fresh and they were producing hot they weren't producing it they were putting it into a jug just to bring to us so so we

just getting one gallon from one cow and they would say this is a really delicious and check it out and so we started to try and figure out can we just make an ice cream that just tastes like this milk and so that was the beginning for me of going down the path of not doing any of the ice creams with egg I never when I was working for other chefs that would be recipes that maybe had a stabilizer maybe didn't I was you know following the recipes as soon as I was making my own stuff we weren't using stabilizers I find that stabilizers just really inhibit the flavor release I bought online version stabilizers it is just for sure true fact that anything anything that thickens or stabilizes does inhibit flavor release its yeah it's just a question of how much does it inhibit the release and what is the flavor least that's why industrially and I'm not saying that as a negative about that stuff because I use that stuff all the time but it's just

that in fact they they rate different thickeners on how much they release and or mask the flavors of the of the of the product to our challenge every single day we make really small recipes we make a lot of them every day is to make sure that were you know following the process which isn't that complicated but it does have steps that need to be followed in order for us to make sure that we get the consistency of the product that we want that it's smooth and creamy without using stabilizers and then we've sort of built systems and equipment around the desired results to get us there should always note listeners detest mouth noises which listeners like I don't know some of them are like violet about his baby I hit it they threaten you know before where they really want you to get mouse noises

our listeners have a separate show for that or the weird like repetitive can we have noise ASMR I've actually pitched what's going on they said yes and then I was like I don't actually want to do that what started right now okay

so what do you think

the cash prizes. Darien got that funky sulfur smell that's the reason with banana don't start with that though that's going to blow you out I mean you know like as such a high solids content that I'm sure that as its own cream in its course they'll be a little dust for that all the time this product that I've have here is beyond belief Action Bronson second cookbook we made an ice cream sandwich with him this is the first time that we've done mass production of a sandwich and we do it all by hand in the store and the flavor that he wanted the ice cream to be was banana pudding so we make banana pudding so this has egg in it it also has stabilized are cornstarch and all the things that would otherwise go into a banana pudding and then tons of banana bananas a terrific stabilizer for ice cream naturally what's the what's the banana pudding of record mighty fine

well I mean it probably would be Jello but we didn't even really go there I don't I mean I have banana pudding recipes but I actually went to the New York Times Melissa Clark has got a lot of she got more more time in on testing that stuff home with you she does it in her house to dr. So like my mom has we have one doctor cake recipe like Sandra Dr what it's like so I think now there's whole shows built around it is taking boxed cake mixes and doing crap to them and they're real I made it I made this

I mean listen to cake box mix is just a blend of things that you could put together yourself in theory

Marvel's but anyway so like room in my family to this day reaching back to the seventies I believe from Sunset magazine which was a Powerhouse back in whatever we still in the family have a doctored box cake that we still make I still make mistakes she made back then she made a pot. How to make it now makes it on his own how old is it up when I see my picked it up at 10 o yeah my mom made it again cuz I was like what was my birthday and I was like no mames make that a cherry cake make a cherry cake it's only like my mom made her seventies is Harvey's Bristol cream sherry

industrial food is delicious people that are very skilled at making sure that it's delicious again and again are you get your standard yellow cake mix right then you put in a box in a bag or box are we call it of lemon pudding lemon pudding pudding mix lemon pudding mix okay right directly into the box and then you put the eggs and stuff then not milk not milk Harvey Bristol Cream Sherry as the liquid you make that it's going to make it soft tender come on forget it traditionally in 70 style in a bundt form but we do also flat cakes and what else I love a bun then it comes out you do the for Kitty Fork on the top and then orange glaze over that sucker orange powdered sugar glaze a little more Harvey's in there or

strictly the 1970s guy just so you know I love a good all four Donuts cakes whatever it is he's all of the above glazed and icing kind of here's the thing if you had a gay handed me a cake with icing or a pie I would take pie if you handed me a glazed cake or pie I'd be like woah woah woah tough because my sister-in-law Miley who runs the Food Network Magazine maile Carpenter she's the founder of the Food Network Magazine before that was founded Rachael Ray's magazine before that blah blah blah

by the way that magazine huge that was back in the day whatever so she does not forceful I hate to blow her stuff up here not a giant fan in general which is bizarre to me because is there anything really like whipped cream is like so I can only do ice cream ice cream sundae format which were going to talk about a little bit but I put whipped cream on ice cream as a matter of course I listen as a purveyor of ice cream in New York City I can say you are you not in the minority on that one a lot ice cream with whipped cream on top, then it becomes more areas you go into whipped cream in the air up to God we got to talk about the different types of whipped cream and how close to God they are okay so are you Swedish put sugar and vanilla in my whip cream if you think that's American

listen first of all I feel we just stopped and clear it for a second you tiptoeing around whether or not I might like or not like a lot of these industrialize things that you're dropping in the Hat here and I love it all and I'll tell you just to clear it right now number one favorite ice cream experience in the world for me birthday on on the hill st. Louis in Paris number one number two I really love going to Joey Dee and Rome which is like this massive ice cream shop gelato gelato area that's in downtown Rome that's like a total Italian shit show product is delicious always get it, pain out with whipped cream on top and a big cone but it's a Taurus disaster if you go there is an American be prepared to be pushed out of the way by multiple Italians while you're in line that will cut in front of you in order in Italian in front of you that's the experienced 3 for me Dairy Queen in order I still It's Tricky now cuz I go to die when I'm on a road trip I'll go and there's still a few franchises that are

outside of the Berkshire Hathaway conglomerate that have Dave predated so they're still allowed to operate on their own and finding them you can Google it did not Dairy Queen doesn't really want you to know that those things are out there but there's a few up in the midwest that are still doing it the way that they were doing it they don't have to necessarily use all the proprietary stuff from Dairy Queen but I still I still love a peanut buster parfait I really do and I really do think that that combination of things that such a simple interpretation of a Hot Tin Roof which is just vanilla ice cream peanuts chocolate sauce that's all you need and if you can get those things in an adulterated format and taste them all together the truly are almost like the Holy Trinity of an ice cream sundae experience as an idea as a concept I think an execution and what they're doing now it's got so much other stuff in it that it can the distance time frame between when you're eating enjoying and having experience and then when you're feeling really bad is gotten shorter and shorter the more stuff

put in it right me Bliss blizzards and whatever you call him now has gone artisanal not kiss at the New Hudson yards or has those blizzard machines that look totally taking orders in Germany they put the little Frozen packet into and you just throw it in the canister and that that Digger thing goes down in there and get something that's sort of like soft serve have really taken any variable out of it and managing and running a soft serve machine has its own complexity and issues so this is like a pretty bun with a dumb down but it is there smart those machines are smarter they have to self wash because there's such a free freaking crap show about Mass with all those blades

well you would text you they get if they don't get soft serve to me they get the number the frosty like that kind of text but it was still sort of falling into that category between like liquid and Frozen and that's very desirable we're getting to liquid here with one of these so we can take a little time ago when I was running a restaurant in Brooklyn and I had my first ice cream cart this is salted chocolate ice cream and so really simple give me what you what you just tasted it is it just my mind is also going to like Keith and caramel or is it so crazy you said that there's a lady who's a regular regular at my store and on Saturday she she grabs me and wants to talk to me all the time she loves the product and she was like I've always been you know eating this other one and then I eat this one and she was kind of like really getting into it with some of my counter staff and she's like there's got to be careful in there

have the recipe list right in front of me like this don't care moving his flavor and then I came up there and talk to him then she's like and I said no there's no caramel in that it's interesting you say that though cuz there is some of that I think it's almost more like a butterscotch she kind of flavor that's going on there so that's a relatively High cocoa content milk chocolate 38% single-origin what we buy all of our chocolate from Falcon which is a Swiss company that's been family owned for a hundred and twenty some years and I just think that what they do as far as how they processing and stick with the script on what they want to do with their product is this is so consistent I've been eating this in pistol-forum as my midnight snack in the store when I'm there late for 20 years I've been buying from these guys and it I know when it tastes different they'll send me other stuff in the so send me a 36% last weekend I've been eating the 36% for like a week and I'm like this is not going to work

biggest a milk powder in the milk chocolate is getting at the caramel note combination of things it's also that. So I'm not going to give you all of the details of our recipes but very close ratio of cream to milk

so it starts here hates families by the way when you said family-owned she was like you lost me

please explain nastassia why is he saying that he's only family insane anyway so speaking of clothes milk to cream ratio then machines you use and how do you cuz like everyone when they go high on cream by the way I love High cream recipes I get 90 days but that's our walk-in freezer functions like a blast freezer which is pretty crazy a Rite Aid freezer 3 weeks

Max we call this dust is under your cousin has a lot of cocoa powder in it I find hazelnut chocolate made with his own oil I love John do you know if it's very sweet typically very sweet then we strive for as low sugar content in our product as we can have with so maintaining texture and consistency I find sugar try to use sugar the way to Savory cookies is salt to it like it tends to add a can add to the flavor profile of something people want sugar when they're eating ice cream obviously they want something to eat so we had quite a bit of this I don't use cocoa powder very much we use it to make fudge we use it in our chocolate chocolate ice cream which I didn't bring you a should have I was in a little bit of a hurry when I was packing the cooler for this and so I think that the cocoa powder in this kind of balances texture wise this is not quite as warm as The Salted chocolate I've brought this in a cooler that big cooler behind you with a little piece of dry ice in it so I think the lights were kind of shuffling around in their butt

I still think you're getting something here

sorry for all those I'm eating noises on them now.

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I was going to ask you about something off to subject real quick and employee of mine has bananaphobia deal with it all aspects of the banana like the way it looks can't deal with the smell but most importantly not deal absolutely no fly is the sound of someone eating a banana really has feelings on plantains

I didn't get that far there's like the sweetness there's like the obvious sexual references like how ripe is the banana you know what I mean like so like what I got out of it was there was an issue where they were forced to eat bananas for breakfast as a child orange listen to Beethoven while eating olive oil and orange in it chocolate with olive oil in Orange texture of speaking of over-running olive oil really does not want to cooperate when he gets cold

like everyone was like how you doing like why are you crap off

u.s. interesting is it up the mixture with the oil the orange almost like takes on green notes agree with that I will tell you the all of those very young as from Chile it's very spicy is from Grove and Vine Nicole man who was formerly a holy ologist for the BMV group and I really like him if you haven't talked to him you should get him on here

weirdo. I don't think he's a weirdo at all a brilliant guy super kind and really knows his stuff and he loves it and he loves his although game is heavy for one second to you what's your Theory on

cookout on stuff do you cook that do you like do it I'll cook on the milk with the cocoa powder to get it in Adidas soak it forever and then blame like what's your theory on this stuff so for the chocolate ice creams everything gets temperature in no powdered sugar and cocoa powder in this case and salt and then it goes back in pasteurized 280 and then it's pulled off and it's something that's it. You hit the cream that the milk so I'll because you want the flavor of that I've heard many things including from one of the Italian people but so for those who don't care I apologize but we're going to pasteurize and or heat something then how long you should wait before you spend the product after you chill it back down because the theory goes that the fat crystals will glomerate

different ways and you will get a different final texture I find so little evidence to support this dude so much and we're like it's not we can't find enough evidence to suggest I just telling you in our experience Italian guy whose name I forget I can't remember whether he was working for a German but he was Italian and what he said was that if you spin it if you basically he was pushing a machine I use one of those machines where it went to read from pasteurized to chill and you think of you chill it right away right the hell away after you do your password station then it's just as good as Adrian he was against any sort of in-between stuff that's probably just because he was selling a machine that did it right away you're saying it doesn't matter one way or the other well I think that for us a bit part of the challenge Fresno running a business is you know is the juice worth the squeeze in General Tso like the steps that we take are they going to yield results for a consumer

they're going to want it like that they'd get it in the understanding and there's times when we pull things because we're like we're doing all this work for this thing I'll give you an example we have a peanut like a peanut praline ice cream that we used these crazy peanuts from San Antonio Texas are called picosos and then I do think for me to take a nap in a fight now go ahead you can have your opinion over there and I can have mine and we can live in the same space it's going to work out and if you want to bring your own peanuts to the store I'll put them on the Sunday at 4 you I'm not mad at that especially if it's like that's your peanut for me the Picasso is the ideal peanut for a Hot Tin Roof sundae

I do like a small peanut I'm not afraid to say that I'm so the so we were making a praline with that and then grinding it and doing all this crazy work to make the ice cream in at the end of the day number one ice cream wasn't selling very well and number to you know you taste it and eat it and say is this is just translating it wasn't really translating so we're doing all this work downstairs to do this thing and it's not really getting delivered to the consumer and I think you got to have experience with that with what you do but I hate it so much of super chill carbonated work or like like you work real hard on flavors and people don't get it and it's for me it's not even just that it's not worth it hurts me that people don't appreciate something that I think is good and it takes a lot of work and so it's less heartache just did not do it. Or especially if something's a lot of work and you're worried that

he can slip because you're you're you're not on top of it all the time it's going to go.

Makeup we got more spoons

I'm so then we will go to the banana flavor so that one is banana that has just a little bit of calamansi in it which is a calamansi people have a hard time with that word actually on our menu what is that calamansi calamansi

banana ripeness

you don't make mistakes

you assume it's a woman

why would you assume that

not to do something I think I was trying to tell him not to be around this small peanut comment

wake me up to make you happy with the Mike Manuel you do have a question that might be a little adjacent to the topic but we could we go for it I'm Tyler tweeted this in a while back he was wondering do you know anywhere to buy less than one pound of tyka Lloyd 210

do you have any ticaloid on hand in my pocket a mixture of gum arabic in Santan that I use because I'm when you're making syrups like like specifically oil-based syrups or butter syrups that need to withstand immediate solution and simultaneous like chilling with the it's a huge pain in the butt and take away can do almost everything except coconut fat it nothing nothing that I have this is why use by Coco Lopez which is kind of like a Lopez of people so like it it won't break no matter how hard you push Coco Lopez butt ticaloid is like a good second Fest I don't know of a place you can buy small amounts of it but I have I have published somewhere and someone remind me before the show I'll look up of the a good starting

CEO of gum arabic to Santa and to use to make your own thing I will say that you're making your own another right now because I know I am not going to tell the story cuz it's a family showed another time and then arguing about whether to tell the story or not is the amount of time would tell to take 30% of Any Given episode yeah can you just break off like 4 oz of our own so make some for him and send a text with are there other good uses for large quantities of the stuff

Sally come up with any sort of

cheer up with oil in it though like if that comes up for you a lot of me we ran through all of ours and then we had to let you know make more after you know who you can buy it from from t i c but the point is I know you forget what it was what I was going to say I was going to give us a jestion have I ever told the puke punch story on the air it's not really my story to tell

next time we are in a lot of time cuz we talked about what do I have in my phone my spoon right now Mike fresh spoon

not strawberry with pistachio pesto added into it


to go to things on Darian I have noticed that most of the dirty and you get in the USA has been even if it's still a hole during has been pre Frozen not not as stinky after you freeze it to 50% and therefore version of something that's extreme my great-niece a diluted or diluted or both I had ice cream in my mouth times I once made a dirty and caramel by accident I was never able to recreate it it was a mistake in a pressure cooker I was pressure cooking to try to see whether I could go there and even more by pressure cooking well and I hadn't controlled-access I was using at the time of non venting pressure cooker so it was shooting off moisture and the temperature was going up and I stopped it at Justice perfect point where it came out like a caramel and it was

rich and durian but not stinky then I tried the next like 2 3 weeks to try to do it again I could never do it close not even close yeah yeah and then I guess that's why that's why I tell people you know you could do the best thing of your life if you didn't write down everything you did do with this all the time and chicken keep in the notes or binders are crazy in the store and then keep update we update on the minute I might put it in the computers in the kitchen and put it in print in Shred the old one and put it back in cuz you can't that's like things get to all over the place all the time it's really difficult really challenging and we're just testing all the time things change and we don't have those same I would not give when I using any stabilizers then just dealing with the equipment the store is brand new and we're just like learning how to make sure that everything's coming out consistently so there are changes that need to be made on the Fly and then the cook does it and then we're like did you write it and then like I wrote it in my book and my books in my car if you know this kind of thing so try to keep that stuff you record it is really

oh yeah he didn't record it then she get punched in the value of the time that you spend the first time in the second time trying to remember and trying to like recreated and all that stuff so I could give operated it's gone Josh and I are actually terrible at it that's the one thing we tell other people do the word terrible at it the other one we say is if you if you have time to lean you're going to die

you should be writing the notes on what we've been doing this whole time

okay before I forget you you said beforehand that you're involved in it and charity thing you want to talk about talk about it I brought you I purchased from my store to articles of clothing for you guys this is a t-shirt that we created this year was st. John's bread and life that's your shirt right there Dave I got you a large I think that's the right size for you so play nice Anastasio that we get approached by a lot of different it's amazing that they were didn't want my first text to work for them and I like them so that woman who's running their culinary program over there a mosasaurus she spent a long time in the diner organization and has done a lot of different things and food in the same industry that you and I find ourselves in and now has dedicated her time to helping the soup kitchen at St John's bread and life

get more organized and you know if you go into a soup kitchen that's producing tons and tons of food and more than most restaurants are producing and they don't have the same experience or skill set that someone like you and I do to understand how to do it better and understand how to be more efficient more affected with it and use the same ingredients that they get donated them to make the food tastier make the food healthier so she's really doing something that's it's extraordinary and what they do every day provide 3000 hot meals in Brooklyn this is a crazy feet if you can imagine and they serve them out of their soup kitchen they serve them out of trucks and I do all kinds of things so for us this year our entire Initiative for any dollar that we're going to raise goes to them and so we made a shirt to help celebrate that which is something that we've learned over time our in-house illustrator Jessica Cherry who does a lot of different stuff for us incredibly talented did illustration of a bird eating piece of pie millison is very famous Baker wrote a book how to make a butter pie incredible incredible Baker credible Chef really incredible Baker she's got the hands

she just knows how to do just knows how to make it grandma style and so alamode eaten by a pigeon a pigeon is Raven she from Baltimore smartest of all birds by the way like any of the Corvettes are a smartest bird with the thing is like it's got to look at its I like it's got that pigeon looking at pictures are dumb dummy if a bird consume caffeine will that mess it up cuz it's got a piping hot thing a coffee long as it's smoking a cigarette at the same time he's doing great for you from here to Baltimore my happening down there

Mochi ice cream I'm not a smoker so that activity is not something that I would be able to speak to smoking a cigar and eating ice cream but we do see customers at the new store with a big patio they'll go out there and have that ritual of having their own cigarette and having some ice cream outside is an Indulgence smoker but my grandparents and you know my my aunt always were so for me the smell isn't the smell of the cigarette itself it's the smell of old cigarettes serious childhood memory of what is I got one more thing for you to do this so how do you avoid overturning on high butterfat recipes or do you just like you have to alter your machines for instance they're not high butterfat

yeah we use low butterfat cream and we also keep our ratio adjusted based on sugar content so we don't we have a very rarely do we have an overrun issue very rarely does that happen we were overturning only on something like that olive oil chocolate where we doubted that other fat to it and was still kind of like playing with make sure I feel like this when we tasted it and you're getting that flavor of the olive oil but it's not it's a predominant and we couldn't really back down the olive oil any further than that then where it is right there. The butterfly make you break out of it it'll break out of it the olive oil separating out so I broke this and happy you guys are soft enough I just get a little bite so this is the Action Bronson ice cream sandwich has been very popular is inspired by my favorite ice cream sandwich of all time hits it from San Francisco where I'm from

and so you have a little Nilla Wafer there that we made in-house you have some banana caramel in there the banana pudding ice cream and then there's a Chocolate shell on the outside of that thing that's been pretty popular this thing this is been going to hit

it's serious that's a 5-ounce ice cream sandwich because the banana is very present and it creates noises when you eat it

nowhere near it

not now it's today, so he's no they do not have to make them

you getting better at that it's not easy to do nowadays so we should talk a little bit about something that I think you can speak to witches menu Matrix just something that I spent a lot of time thinking about just the combination of all the things that we put on the menu that ultimately make the experience for however many people come through your doors morgenstern's transax so many people not let me show I needed expletive right there at the over the weekend we probably transacted I don't know what somebody who's not even warm out yet but it was over a thousand people so there's a thousand experiences happening that have to happen really fast in that with the way that they interact with the menu is ultimately what defines whether they're going to come back again or not I mean the product has to be good and all those other things but

with 88th flavors on the menu hopefully you have like enough choices that someone see something that they have to have in something else that maybe they want to have the next time they come that's a big part of how we you know get people hooked in and they want to keep coming back and try what we do so when I went to the bar and went to existing conditions 2 weeks ago and I saw that like you have a pretty substantial selection going on there so there's no comparing mother's relatives are not just like objectively coming in and looking at it there was I think it was the right amount it was an overwhelming for me sometimes I go to places on legs too much information I can't make a choice which is what people say about more French quite a bit but they do keep coming back for you pull it out and putting out is the main thing sweet people can hone in on a chunk like this is like the like I think I think overwhelmed like if you look at a Greek diner menu

yes even look at the shop since menu Katz's and like Katz's can have like you can be can be up or down or whatever it is but I still love going to Second Avenue Deli myself I'm not from here but those experiences even when they're not good they're great because they are so true to what they are and where they are and so shopsin's is something also but close to New York it's very simple talk about a very small radius of each other

if you just list everything then you're ruined you know what I mean but if you bullet stuff out and people to be like okay like at our menu it's you know it's fundamentally is it is it served up on a rock shaken is it carbonated does it not alcoholic and each one of those is only like somewhere between 4 and 1/8 drinks and so it's easy to kind of consume sections but you find that the consumer would rather search by category on the that Style versus the spirit

I mean for US Mobile safe for us because we're being a group of people so I won't speak for them for me

I don't I start more from what style drink am I going to have I very rarely start with Spirit which is weird cuz when your own I'm talking to a guest like what you kind of have to because it's been beaten into you you ask him about Spirit first wear as for me I'm always like what what are you looking for you looking for something more refreshing are you looking for something more Spirit forward because then I can say we're going to push you to carbonate and stirred drinks am I going to push a a carbonated and shaking drinks or I'm going to push you into the stirred and built drink so I like that's where I am then and then I'm like okay are you looking for bitter and then if they are not interested in having that kind of conversation if I'm getting that vibe off and they're not interested in having a conversation with me and I'm like okay what Spirits do you normally drink because like I also really curious to see

what was for you guys there you have a large menu and you have a big enough space for the second half volume running through there to say what if you were categorizing by flavor profile not by Spirit but like you have a lot of fruit representation on your menu which is really cool for someone like me and that's it's like it makes the experience more it's kind of more fun to see that those flavors are coming through and because of your knowledge in what you do and how exacting you are for like pulling that stuff out literally pulling out those flavors than you know when you go there when you drink that drink it's really going to taste like that thing and I wonder if your consumer would respond to that if you were putting it out there in the category as far as the flavor profile if you put a banana category if you put citrus category and so on with that and then the spirit comes next in the style is listed that way there's any number of ways obviously to like organize the information I remember we had to fight when we were starting

but again there's just so many stakeholders why you got to be a fight to it's always a fight

I'm solo by the way I think collaboration makes me better personally it's challenging yes it is true for me I mean some resistance is going to get you you can do things that you wouldn't otherwise to you people that you know everyone was nice here to I'm not talking about just us right look at the people you know that don't have checks on them they are small children become small children can come in different weight like different forms as far as like how your buffered I'm buffered by the fact that we have to balance our budget and we don't have endless amounts of money behind us and we have to be able to operate something that's operating so then we have to operate don't you know that is the budget is the consumer I was wrong people don't like this oh I think something's going to

it's going to be amazing a flavor that we thought was going to be great and it doesn't move and we moved off the menu the most depressing thing that's happened to me with menu It's So Donnelly my partner at the at the bar

one of my partners at the bar he is like look just named this thing where the strength that's got the super salty water that we get from Saratoga to call the Saratoga Paloma right I didn't want to call the plumber because it didn't it has some of the same Palomas got freaking squirt in it right if we don't use a grapefruit soda then like it in enough so it's got this kind of thing so like this is like this crazy water from Saratoga that nobody else has it's not in any Paloma were using clarifier grapefruit right we're reading everything and carbonating it like together right and it didn't come from the idea of

a Paloma it came more from a frankly from just wanting to use this water and like pushing it in pushing it in the direction of grapefruit because salt and grapefruit and you know you could do it with a lot of things to clarify grapefruit kind of go to thinks that still doesn't mean that you had to use it for that drink and then it was right even though like you can count on zero hands the number of plumbers that have been made with stew not wealthy water okay so cuz I Like It by the way Prescott delicious taste like grapefruit

but you can't you can't divorce you cannot divorce those two things like that whole process that you're staying that you're struggling with and someone else was saying you should think about calling a diploma because that's going to be the way that people are going to look at it right and so he won that battle we call it the Saratoga Paloma and we sold our still selling a boat ton of them. There's no way be there's no freaking a b we don't and what I wanted to do and I'm not I don't think I'm going to do this I want to have I want to have the exact same drink on the menu in two places with two different names exact same drink and then see which would be another one so Garrett don't tell anyone now so Garrett has his drink on Garrett are Tiki Fein he he had a drink that is called

Don it was called Beachcomber Negroni I saw it so and we sell a lot of it and downs like this cuz it's got the word Negroni in it and took off one of our clothes off the menu which one we took off Professor Plum which was approved who's Dino into Elijah Craig bourbon to listen to We swapped it out for a compass box and date Christina old fashioned fig fig old-fashioned and resell a lot of it done like this Cruise got the world fashion it sounds like a marketing genius

I just hate it so much because I just hate that it's that easy to push people around you know what I mean it's like that they're not like that you're even you yeah I know I am still just a rat in a cage and yes I do we all need to be herded sometimes but we do have you not ever sat down at looked at the menu and it's been like yeah just I just need to get that I don't know what the what am I doing I can't think about this case it was people don't think about this as much as you because this is the way I am I hate Choice first choice and it's just as he knows if you go out to eat with me I I I insist on ordering last I don't know why cuz you want to see what everyone else is doing yes yes

it's not that exchanges but like I'm kind of always on the fence in my mind between a couple things anyway so I didn't have to go around it and I don't like my favorite thing to do and I hate it when people can't handle it cuz a lot of servers can handle it then like listen I haven't been here before I may never come here again I like almost everything just bring me something is representative of what you do you want to meet and like you do that wow and I'm like how often does that wind up well

sometimes it is a really well it may take it that you're going to do that once you have gauged your servers ability to understand your particular psychosis it's like you try to get a read on someone like you could tell if you ask them questions and you're clearly pointing you towards just because it's you know especially like I'll go to a town and I don't know anything about the town or like what they do there and then I was looking at this menu and I'm like I'm told I should go here like I go to a little BBQ joint the first time I was in Kansas City listen I know a lot about North Carolina Barbecue I know something about Texas barbecue I've never been to Kansas City before what is it I need to have here you want to go that's not the one that I'm describing which is when you just like I keep go to that you're going somewhere very specific you know that you can have an experience and you need them to guide you because that you need to be guided I

how do you subscribe to the same place to be if I go someplace and I'm just like tell me what it is that you guys do here and let me experience what it is and if I want to add on to it and I'll do that but they're certainly times in my life when I'm just like exhausted or can't be bothered and I need to eat and I'm like at a place and I'm like all right I don't you know I understand that sometimes people don't really want to have to choose choosing his work so if it is as energy you have to like deal with it and so but you're writing menus and you're fighting against the fact that putting on the tag name to brownie or old-fashioned or whatever else is actually making it easier for people to make the selection at what time is often right marketing genius he's not listening thank God so I can say on air that he is off and right

it doesn't mean it has to make me happy disturbed by the fact that he's disturbed by the fact that he otherwise is just winning this fight with you I don't know what happened and by the way. That spends spends all updates can you give me one of those to borrow and use for a week and I'll bring back the two of us plus Matthew and Hong Kong Chris that's the whole company and so the way we operate as we get on the phone and yell at each other constantly feel like we're meeting at the bar because we're going to go

what are all the gay that we did last week for 0.0 that nastassia posted AR test for and apparently it's the greatest hits the greatest video in the stocks and I've ever done that people are like sausages made it's just us yelling at each other the whole time so we show up at the bar and

don't like we say they're having a photo shoot a huge photo shoot at the bar the whole bar is filled with people who have to work on your bar so you say we were having a big photo shoot with in two sentences of talking to each other we were full out screaming at each other and one was just like

what the hell I don't know how that happened like mad at me and then she knows how that she's like I am mad I want Dave to be mad but the problem with me is is that I go from being totally fine to not find quickly but it's like it's like if someone new comes up and starts punching me in the shoulder it'll take me like 3 months before I get really agitated but after 10 years she knows she's punching the exact same place on my shoulders

I like I told you let me show you what I mean it's like she knows how to make it so I didn't get to any of the questions except for I will say this Matt Hall called in with the liquid intelligence lifehack liquid intelligence is my book and as you know nastassia uses it for instance if you was taking a pint of your ice cream out of here establishment he transferred during the transfer in the bag was not too heavy so she uses it as a life hack from Matt Hawk Instagram a screw things up when I try to send Dave a picture of my wife using liquid intelligence as a mousepad she does is basically every night I thought you might like to know that the book can be used for

what is separating hot and cold foods he cooked his Canadian geese that were shot out of sky and Toronto so next week will read about that we have some soda problems we have to deal with for Daniel next week and Cleveland we have someone else do this real quick Paris Road in and is trying to make pretzels but trying to deep fry the pretzels and is doing the live dip at the here's the thing you need to do the live dip Paris is par baking this before before frying it but doing the live dip after the apartment you do the live dip before the par bake because you're starting to my art and stuff and I think if you do that let it sit for a while so if you do your dip in the hot wire to be hot lights or hot you know sodium carbonate pull it out then do your par bake let it sit for a while

yes basic things ruined oil they saponify the oil whether it's a huge factor I don't know if it's going to be a huge Factor but I know that if you go hot out of the oven into the LIE wet into the oil gummy problems do that Remy is doing a fundraising dinner with liquid nitrogen I have tips but I have to get to next week because it's too much to say we miss Morgenstern did not get to talk about the history of the Sunday which nastassia made me research

Rebecca Rebecca so I'm happy to come back for the second what's the first regular one regular like a Hot Tin Roof and these garbage faces had a banana split the Wikimedia Commons some idiot put a banana split on a plate it wasn't in any form of boat that I was going to bring the banana boat over here I have we have we have eight of the Vintage like the from the forties and they're they're shaped like a banana and they're big they look like a banana the cast of yellow they're beautiful and they fit a bananas got to be in a boat I don't like a lot of the things that I don't really like someone something but a Banana Splits great let's talk about what's in a banana split real quick

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