Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 325: Love and Bitters and Juice

this episode of cooking issues is brought to you by Bob's Red Mill and employee-owned company that have been offering organic stone-ground products for decades with Bob's Red Mill you're not just getting quality you're getting flavor pack healthy food that tastes great visit Bob's Red Mill. Com to learn more and use the code cooking issues that's one word all caps cooking issues for 25% off your order

got David Booth good. Longtime friend as our guests you're going to want to call in all of your Amor amargo or sorry I'm up all of your drink related all of your Alton Brown related all of your kind kind of like if you like very long stirring spoons you're going to want to call in your lungs during spoon questions to Southern the Speakeasy Damon both he and I are every Wednesday at 2 p.m. of course podcast on all platforms right after that for a long time no that Damon volte is a twin he's one of the

prefect has one of the culinary / bar twins one of the many New York identical twins be identical not not one of these like you know fraternal twins are differences are so what are the differences between the bolt East Side so don't know that's like an estimate a recipe for f u right there the other day we had identical twin one has been a long time and space and they came back in there like interesting news your genes change what you've been up in space for a long time the guys in space had a smile on his face like buddy wipe that smile off your face you know that means you buddy so much radiation up there

the same fingerprints last on this stuff has like marshmallow thumbs and so I cannot write quickly on a phone just wrote my entire book on an iPhone or a liar I'm crediting the iPhone in my book as in to say written on iPhone 7 is it one long run-on sentence I've been really need some recognition to write that exact carry around me because I was like oh you know you can use that Styles but it's not a mouse I'm sorry it's like someone my age wants a mouse which one of mouse that what you want I want to hear a check guide people do people know I'm going to take a moment

this is it you're saying you wrote that because you don't want a word processor correct your other word processor is a brother where the pizza call lanyard Souther and or other cooking lake questions to someone +849-721-287-2128 and also Nastasia nastassia Lopez LED everyone to believe that Jim Lahey not that your consolation guess the other night that Jim Lahey The Bread Guy was going to be on this week over Bakery in fact stassi that is incorrect but it is

I was going to say that Booker wants me to say that it's no longer take your child to work life because he has a job he's actually this is the first time he's working at it without without say the same child labor laws that hasn't changed you still work when your 14 can you Pennsylvania Working Underground

minimize all right so I told you swing by to say hello. I just pulled the wool over a shitload of people's eyes and on my Instagram by April Fool the hell out of them but you do I just posted a picture of a bunch of fresh bottles of juice and a Shaker and I said we're we're changing some programs I never said The Words I Never Said the words Shaker but I stay in my program and absolute crap ton of responses that don't know like Souther you open that but she's at seven years ago because he thought you need to go but it's it's it's it's muscle fills up quickly but tell him to tell him the basis of the program which means love and Bitters in Italian

what's the weather in Spanish which is good because most of my bar is Italian we only serve stirred bitter cocktails using lots of Amaro and pink your betters I have probably have the largest selection anywhere in the World of Tanks room portable Bitters and a tiny bar that's 240 square feet and we for 7 years have only stirred cocktails that that's part of the program meant to be used only cane syrup and we only use that Innovations other than that we have no sugar we don't use any service or juices we don't use anything non-alcoholic really really non-alcoholic ingredient are bars water and that aforementioned syrup for drinks that posted this photo of a bunch of juice on the bar and people just went ape shitt

well I think that people are like you know why would you go against your stick and a Japanese there's plenty of places I can go if I want juice so if I want a bee's knees or whatever and goes on Your Juice in the sea wow I wouldn't go there man can go there sitting over at 11 as well make it holidays

do you hate it like when you would people want to say they are you a guy who goes all out and says Amari like pluralize isn't Amari is the plural or did you say tomorrow's are you pissed off either way or no way but it depends on the use of Juno on the menu since day one we've had a cocktail that involves eight different Amari and that cocktail is called on the menu 8th tomorrow Sazerac and people call me out of this I shouldn't be the eighth of Mauri says and I say what I didn't eat three-bean salad today write three bean salad though is a 3-day salad beans salad unless you're a cesare Casella and he says always being so no matter how many beans are involved beans beans beans the way I hope are we going to be using to be able to carry we're not if you're not working on it so you don't know if I want to carry cesare is ham at the bar what do you say

I don't care like I give no beans or something so the with you tomorrow I'm ask you some questions why did they ruin Zooka Zooka is a bit like one of these that class called a rabarbaro which is like a nice bitter supposedly it's rhubarb rhubarb like you think of rhubarb rhubarb and Rose are made is some it's discharge or which is a special type of rhubarb and it smells and tastes Smoky like it's been smoked though it has not to get this real Smokey or feed tomorrow afternoon

one of these here in the u.s. is Oka and four years we loved it and they change the damn recipe what's up with that so yeah this is happening a lot with the imari in general there see I used to put on everybody is getting on board with the notion of cocktails which of course we created here in the United States the rest of the world still really doesn't make cocktails they sort of look at us funny when we talked about Mexicans with English that I know if if people can use our stuff in cocktails you need to be stronger cuz most Amari hover around like 23% you know pretty low proof by which has no not enough of a background even though they've got big flavors to stand up and feel so Mike and I haven't talked to anybody that you could but they change their recipe they and they basically doubled the proof so it's a lot higher Bruce a lot hotter which changes how you drink it but I think they are

even though they had a horrible post the buy what is a d i like a couple like horrible like for international women's day was so like so bad they were all like I don't know if I can use the condo anymore tonight I was just like they're like I don't know it was it was something horrible like you know like one of those like man real thing or something of a woman as a musical instrument day we love women they're amazingly, but they make a high-proof when I think is actually works really well they do as well they came out with

7057 Carl still offers the one that they've always offered to know a person when they always offer to think that was their zukas bigger mistake is so jacked ramar Once and Future head bartender like he has he has some sort of like Zuca sense so like if he walks into any bar like he won't even look at the back bar and he'll sit at a table and then I'll say they have a bottle of zuka on the back bar up right there any Zuca he wants walked into a liquor store with me we were looking for something else and he was like

they have the old Zucca I'm buying it all by is it all for the personal consumption I wonder if we could you know we have some sway we can reach out to them and see if they'll the old formula have like a little member New Coke yes Pepsi clear do you ever go to that have you ever been to the that tomorrow like trade show Festival they have in Milan yeah I got to go to that 3 years ago fascinating tomorrow it's also like this Giant Food Festival so as a former Chef like that app that ring my bills as well as his freaking useless cuz you always go to the State Fairgrounds at the oldest thing on its incredible Italians are so funny because they'll drink like as much of that as they want and then

wine with their meal but they're like a check we don't want to drink no drink alcoholic cocktail before dinner there like they consider that drink it exactly it's very cultural it's very this is just how it's done we're not I love that you know where the drinks are half price and then double the strength and we can get pretty wasted real quick and then go home and eat like a blue box of macaroni and cheese and pass out and wake up the next day and do it again where these guys version of assistant are you this is what he thinks about Italian mac and cheese at the bar

yeah but the one in Italy you know you have the aperitif hour which is not an hour it's it's that bad for teeth afternoon you you go to lunch and you haven't you know a Campari and soda or maybe you go so far sounds like a spell yato and then you kind of don't stop drinking

that's Peter trying to speak Italian. We're at the airport on the Air 2012 from last week yesterday I actually

so your first caller talking about wild cheese is ashwagandha I walked out right Oru the person who texted me and not text me tweeted me and said that she was confusing two things cuz if not good either way good explain the difference because I didn't have a chance to go look it up and it is definitely a part of bitters that I've made I grew up in an apothecary my mom's been making bitter since I was like 6 years old so cooking since I was like 14 to make a wild cheese real cheese from Cornwall

so it's it's the same same sort of process they use the berries of this stuff is called Indian ginseng and India is all over India to a long life like an Elixir supplement people in the US have been getting really into it because it's like really good at lowering lowering cortisol and stress actually probably exactly what they're not the same thing at all not a hallucinogen I know I wrote the wrong thing on the TV it's not a hallucinogen this stuff is not going to send you on a terrible trip railroad we got a lot of calls and emails about that so I apologize to the Ayahuasca Allah be out there and sorry I said go ahead colors probably somewhere in Silicon Valley taste good my main things and stuff tastes good

I mean this as a as a component in a bitters you know all all Fitters are originally a medicine right that's that's why they're created this is the way to to take the medicinal plants around us and preserve them and then that is walking all slowly turn into the art form that is it is now today

great if it tastes like a bitters you know I like I like

like gentian I like that stuff in the proper amount like with other flavors I like the flavor it but whereas like what's something I find unpleasant what's a bitter flavor that I find unpleasant

in any quantity I don't know I guess bitter flavors I don't find them unpleasant I kept trying to think of a can you get can either of you guys think of a bitter flavor that's just inherently unpleasant but I don't like okay I don't like no offense to Philip tough then always work with them but Pharaoh King has the taste of iron and a drink is very challenging but better though by Iron citrate so I don't know of any bitter notes they're actually just bitter that I detest you know how I wound up and where I'm at now I enjoy them about the flavor like what about the that make things unpleasant right so like some people don't like Dusty like that that Dusty know that you're getting like Sue's or something like this right which a bunch of different

agents can make that Dusty kind of but does this stuff like can it be made into a pleasant bitters you know it's kind of hard to describe what what the what is the name of it again Indian ginseng poison Gooseberry ashwagandha is it related to a real Gooseberry like a new chuva or is it in fact a gooseberry

it is a Nightshade commercially made tincture or potable Bitters and involvement yeah they sell them they sell a lot of commercials has like one of the top selling supplements in the United States if used by bodybuilders weightlifters at a different rate or you lower your stress levels

like a picture of long life in India but be over here we've started using it for you know supplement Geeks have all sorts of YouTube videos about the minutiae you're interested in this sort of thing and I have not tasting Southern maybe you have have you tried the Rhododendron honey the toxic Rhododendron honey honey it's from like and then up in the mountain areas they have the couple of speed we are rhododendrons are poison it right so there's a couple species of Rhododendron where the nectar

contains a neurotoxin that wait for it and small amounts people find pleasant but in large amounts are problematic and it makes this I think colored honey I think the honey has a color to it but it's called like mad that when they try to sell it to you it's called mad honey but there's an actual Turkish word for it and I think it crosses over to the other side of the mountains as well but it's like that kind of mountainous area of turkey where I come from its I mean it's expensive but it's not like that expensive cuz you're only eating like well unless you're very much you're dumb you're only eating a small amount of it and it's like I think it's like $100 a pound but here's the thing I don't think this is a good point with herbs to maybe you want to talk about a car I think it's unethical to put something that you think has some sort of bioactivity into a drink if there's even a possibility that someone might have a negative reaction to it because I like your service on alcohol right

it assumed that they know how to deal with alcohol because they showed up at a bar and ordered alcohol if you're selling them like you know something that can and you know affect their kidney function or you don't know what's going on with their body and you know how they're going to react to it you don't even some of these are herbs actually have real effects on to the shore this is why I'm like why we pictured them in the first place I'm really Stone stay against the green dragon that everybody makes with the with the pot bitters I'm not going to say who is LoCash if you if if I live in Colorado

yeah but the marijuana the green the green dragon the as it is a cannabis tincture but

amazing but that's the great thing about the legalization you can activated charcoal alcohol can screw with people anymore than the alcohol is in the drink screws with them cuz that's what they're expecting when they come in to know a lot of people who are getting into making bitters don't think necessarily about me like for instance like control in a bar obviously can cause a lots of problems if you overdo it it's thankfully hard to overdo and still make a palatable drink exactly so for that one it's relatively self-limiting but also collect so you can make it palatable drink at the at the far end of that palatability and then have two or three of them and then you still get the same effect sweet what the biological Half-Life actually do have not just in your body but have a

a pallet like reinforcing effects of said it gets progressively more bitter

oh yeah the El Sereno Visalus certainly does that sip one is bitter sip to is more better than this is uncommon right typically you get to Fred Williamson from one of the better in the first wayson is not sweet it's sticky but it's not to eat but this this bitter as you drink it becomes more and more bitter which is better question what was it for you hear something I've never been able to figure out I want anyone in the on the internet you can hear this to help me figure it out it's it's a we know for a fact that aperol and Campari if stored in a bottle drink

Alicia a carbonated bottled drink with acid will get more bitter over the course of like 24-48 hours it will get progressively more bitter to the point where it's unpalatable but we can store it diluted but as soon as you add acid you know like you know the equivalent of the same acid that you would have in like a gin and tonic or any one of our carbonated drinks and I've never tested it with lime we use a mixer make sure of a mallet sorry lactic and tartaric acid with Campari and it just get an aperol and it just gets intensely bitter so we had to even though those assets don't spoil we still had to add the acid on poor at service time because otherwise it would go I'm probably Untitled unpalatable bitter in 24 hours

it was one of these were you know how I am and I like I was getting like button like violently angry I would go in I would make the drink I'll be like I love it I'm out and that would bottle it and then I would call in the next day if you like you did you try it and they're like it's too bitter is know and I was like what and then finally I went back and tasted yesterday's batch because everyone knows you know we do at the bar with life tests right to see how long a product last you know if I should be going to pre bad cuz you don't want to throw away the liquor and yeah just got more and more bitter none of us can figure out why we're do you have you had any other bitter tinctures that if you store them differently like they get if you suddenly compound two things together they they go crazy on you

that's really interesting I I haven't I haven't ever had to deal with that before but I would like to kind of get into it you said is aperol and Campari cuz I know it happens more cat aggressively there so just make like a make like a like a Campari soda Right add acid to it so it's like acidic right as though you would squeeze lime in but again I use Malachi sorry tartar I can lactic acid and then store it taste taste it be like yes this tastes good and then store it for 24 hours to go back and taste it and you can make a fresh one side by side in the the bitterness difference is a parent because it's me I also recarbonate the whole thing because you know that's what I do

answer but I can ask my mother she will probably know the answer on back to cooking issues if you can find it to move to California you guys had this huge we were talking about the shop I don't remember what episode was on it years ago I just moved to California and you were talking about on one of your episodes on a hundred there is a chef who had like this lost manuscript it was about fish he has one that's available in public domain he was like a early like nineteenth-century shopping with the California fires that he wanted to go this and that the other thing and he has like a lot of made a lot of impact on the California food system who is that guy is it he's a New Yorker who moved to California read like recently in the past 5 years

woo man see Dave Dave and this is why it would be nice to be able to search what we've had cuz I can't remember the other would also like to build the Great surfing I don't remember all those Nicki Minaj on my way out here and I wanted to talk to you shut that I'm working for hear about that and I cannot find the episode I mean I know people that have like ancient Thai manuscripts I know people like we pop had a bunch of old-time manuscript and so we know someone else who had a bunch of type fish cooking all his time about like every single kind of vegetables they had available in America 2

how to cook with everything if you want while this is nothing to do with a chef but if you want like all the vegetables that were available in New York City Markets right after the Civil War you going to want to go on Google Books and look up one of my favorite books the market assistant and they a picture of the guy at the front of the market assistant looks like Bill the Butcher Poole from Gangs of New York in other words like Daniel Day-Lewis and father from New Jersey how do I play this all my kids back I just got to pick up my kids from school and how do you get like how do you get all back for that anyway but like that's like everyone's life is everything is available and you can see the crazy diversity of ingredients that we had in the 1800's mean just bananas you know what I mean so instead of 18 varieties

Mario you had 18 varieties of small bird you could buy a story in of the of the United Fruit and what we did to all of the countries south of us in order that we could get cheap bananas can take a break and we can talk about the horror shows of America and how we know the horrible things we've done to other people for fruit and the bananas

fish episode of cooking issues is brought to you by Bob's Red Mill and employee we have a question from listener about another Bob's Red Mill products this week Cathy rights I heard you talk about the science behind nutritional yeast but what makes it taste like parmesan while Bakers and brewers yeast taste like well East Kathy I have to say I haven't done too much research on this the main difference that I know of between nutritional yeast and regular Bay Keys is twofold one they can choose a specific strain of yeast when they're making nutritional yeast and doesn't have to make anything rise so they can choose it just based on Flavor that's one the second is that the main difference between nutritional yeast and regular yeast is that nutritional yeast has been heated so there's no longer active and I'm sure that the heating specialist I'm not sure what temperature they take it up to you but if they toasted at all that toasting can bring out a lot of those kind of nutty cheesy more more parmesan notes in your

can you get any kind of active fermentation notes out of a nutritional yeast because it's dead if you have more questions about Bob's Red Mill products at Heritage underscore radio go to Bob's Red Mill. Calm and use the code cooking issues that's one word all caps cooking issues for 25% off your order

all right I'm glad you some questions we got time for one goes there's a show at 1 so time to wrap it up time to wrap it up for years if you wanted to create a juice production and distribution business directly towards bar slash restaurant / hotels in my city and recently the time has presented itself to move forward in this idea that until yesterday when the Department of Agriculture FDA told me that raw juice the same juice we making using bars every day and only sold direct-to-customer and wholesale juice must be pasteurized so here's my question instead of giving up because I hate pasteurized juice or taking the fda's Johnson to the face and spending a gazillion dollars on a high pressure pot pressure what I'm reading the juice with the same day of pressing with similar results as non-pasteurized fresh juice pacifically with the vacmaster killing of bacteria to pass lab test performed by the FDA to be considered pasteurize enough answer no vacmaster will not kill any bacteria

yeah it's just simply vacuum packing it the other bacteria won't grow but here's the actual truth is you can sell juice to people what you have to do non-pasteurized for citrus only you have to get you have to purchase verified tree pick no ground fall fruit that's the first part of the rule secondly you have to put in a sanitizer solution that has a proven a log 5 reduction in bacteria for the external portion of the citrus fruit rinse it off you can then sell that citrus fruit to a commercial place with the label saying this juice has not been pasteurized and yada yada yada you can't do that for any other juice other than Citrus you can use non heat pasteurization techniques such as ozone or UV light but that is a huge pain in the butt and you still need to prove that you have a 5 log reduction in pathogen here is another way around it you can

sell it retail and then even if somebody buys eighty thousand jugs of it how do you know where they using it that's the way Manhattan Fruit exchange does it here in New York City jug of fruit and they don't ask you whether you have a really big family or a restaurant so that's one way to do it and then of course it's on the other people they're doing something illegal but at least you're not doing something illegal and I will say also that you guys over at cocktail Kingdom they tried to put together a similar business and that they shut it down because of the expense it was going to cost to go to the pasteurization process about a year they were you could if you could call a cocktail Kingdom as a as a bar restaurant hotel and buy fresh juice will be delivered within 24 hours it was amazing and I think I shut down and get the rest of my damn questions not even a 30 second question

inside

thanks for listening to Heritage Radio Network food radio supported by you for a freshest content and to hear about exclusive events subscribe to our newsletter and to your email at the bottom of our website Heritage Radio Network. Org connect with us on Facebook Instagram and Twitter at Heritage underscore radio Heritage Radio network is a nonprofit organization driving conversations to make the world a better fare more delicious place and we couldn't do it without support from listeners like you want to be a part of the food world's most Innovative Community rate the shows you like tell your friends and please join our community by becoming a member just click on the Beating Heart at the top right of our homepage thanks for listening