Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 3: Harold McGee

Fisher's Fish Fry don't know where I'm at

supposed to be about baby

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you were listening to cooking issues I am Dave Arnold we're coming to you on the Heritage Radio Network the show cooking issues a show where you call in and we saw your cooking issues related or not today cooking issues a sponsored by Acme smoked fish located in Greenpoint Brooklyn Acme has been a Mainstay in New York's culinary landscape for over 55 years using old world recipes acne produces the finest smoked salmon Whitefish and Sable that Discerning palates demand for information on where to find Acme Blue Hill Bay or Ruby Bay products visit www. Acme smoked fish., that they actually supplied most of it must have been places in the city so even if you don't know you had Acme you probably had Acme now the number to call into the radio show it with your between 12 and 12:45 every Tuesday is 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 and we already have our first color for the day


we got the we got Jordan on the line hey how you doing so what's your question man I've been experimenting with trying to give him some point where they're like

in the machine until guests arriving to finish them on the grill before we go any further that you are in luck for being the first color today you live one some Heritage Foods boneless barbecue riblets so don't think so typically when we're going to do a rib you can do a rib at any temperature between about 54 for sale which is rare I wouldn't recommend that because it's kind of weird people aren't used to it all the way up traditional temperature of like 80 but I would recommend something closer to sixty it's a little bit pink on the inside still but it's you know it's it's really it's a good nice temperature and the good thing about cooking this way and we were talking about as low temperature cooking for those you not aware of what we're doing is are stealing the food in a bag and we're using a water bath a very accurately keep the temperature to cook it for a long time and what are the advantages of doing it this way

as opposed to traditional that we talked about it a bit and then if you want it's Adam he's going to stay on the bone it's not going to shred and break apart so you'll be able even though it's very tender and 60 I would do it for about 48 hours 48 to 256 hours in that range 12 to 24 hours tops for the ribs and they weren't coming out number cuz it's 1:40 it's easy to remember what temperature are you using 52155 what does the fact that I was not getting right with the time to put my was afraid if I left it

number one that was going to lose some structural Integrity in the bone itself and I can talk. On the grill it's not going to fall into the rack absolutely skirt steak

Raisa right after 24 hours I should have had to text her right about a skirt steak and after another 24 to 30 hours will have the texture of short ribs

okay I am looking for these boneless barbecue riblets and thanks so much for calling in I think we already have it so we're doing well hello unusable pile of mush cannoli aromatics just leaving cilantro actually even in the rotovap when you wrote it up and it doesn't stay stable this is actually an interesting question the next second we have Harold McGee is going to be on he's not a lot of tests with preserving things like herbs and berries my guess the problem is is that might my guess is the weight of to do it is going to be like a quick blanch and shock but that's probably not what you're what you're looking for and then the other one would be to keep the moisture

not too high so it's not going to write you know so you're drying are still with the paper towels me you could physically driving is not the same as fresh what I'm going to do is I'm going to defer this question and mustaches going to remind me to ask McGee massage going to ask me to remind me to get it to answer this question but I would guess he's going to he's going to say something of the nature of making sure are can get to it in your fridge so it's not going to turn bad making sure that it's not wet when it goes in he might say something even like allowing water to get to the stone if I don't know and you might suggest something like a plan should to kill anything that's on it which is what he does with berries this is not my not my exact area of expertise but you're lucky that Maggie is going to be calling in today cuz it's right up his alley so we'll make sure to ask him also the aromatics on the plants are just so sweet and seems like no matter what you do to it but they're just going to leave pretty much right away

X I wrote it back because you don't know the temperature distillation we do it in the road right back later we do with alcohol just because it's the only way to really lock down those aromatics and when you do it with water you really does Air Max date they leave very quickly we recently been doing experiments with freezing with liquid nitrogen to try and keep those are Max and it works pretty well but we are not ready to necessary make any statements on if you have liquid nitrogen lying around

Millie don't but that doesn't mean I couldn't get some I need to try anything like that that might be good keeping it all Ultra Frozen like that now it's going to go black as soon as it thaws out unless you blanch it beforehand but then you won't have the aromatic 78 you're always going to you're always going to trade so we do a lot of work with liquid nitrogen where we powder fresh herbs when you powder the pressure of when they thought he would look nicer than they go black because you've ruptured the morning blend on your record of tissues and so they they go black when I get that characteristic not-so-good aroma so what will always do is Blanche in boiling water in shock and then I don't deserve it but you're still going to lose some of that again I'll ask Mickey this but you know it's very hard to get that fresh off of the plant kind of kind of a flavor but yet this is what I'll bring up both of these things with Mickey because I know he thinks a lot about this specifically this problem he grows his own stuff and he lives in California you know right so I apologize I might have to defer to later in the segment will get will get an answer for you is that sound good with whom am I speaking

thanks for calling and we'll get we'll get some answers for you before the hour's done hydration low temperature higher than like a cold coffee higher than kill ticks alcohol doesn't leak out all the astringency right like that that's provided you don't do it for 2 days how do you like it has a lot of coffee solids in there versus a lot of the nasty stuff that people do coffee filtered and drink it or what are you due to the cold and I've done a lot of work with the unit with Norm like espressos steps up but I've never done any kind of in-between what if we done with t we never hung out with with coffee to Christine you know you should post something to our

let's get a discussion going on that now I'll try and for him like that cuz I think that's interesting I'm sure a lot of the people you know troll around will think that's interesting to maybe we can get something something started

video call a great hello

hey who am I speaking with dimensions of offhand that you tried stuff that was carbonated are not carbonated but force force gas with no.2 in liquids and what that tasted like I wasn't into a nitrous and CO2 are the two readily available gases that that are soluble to a large degree in water I don't eat and also alcohol and also see what is very soluble in alcohol and also I don't know about CO2 bit into a I guess you at 2 as well as also soluble and liquid fats so these are another very sorry which is why you can put a lot of it anyway you can get a big effect other gases you know other ones that I know of that you know are food-grade aren't as a Sawyer

so you not going to get the same kind of know you could definitely get some sort of maybe a roll more flavor out of putting some gas in and some nachos gases can clearly go in but I haven't experimented with any other gases because basically you get the effect of carbonation which is what I'm looking for out of the CO2 and then we use that the nitrous as a as kind of a balancing act so if I want a lively beverage I want a lot of bubbles in it and the number of bubbles in is determined by the total pressure dissolved gas and it because that's what's determine how fast is bubbling right and also the Bible size for a given liquid in a bunch of other things but but if you add that much CO2 it would rip your face off you know your nose would be view we've had I like at you over carbonated things but you know but I like my face being ripped off but the thing is is it in order to make it really Lively Bell Beverage but more mellow week we had the in 200

a side effect of the n2o is that it's sweet right now and there are situations like I'm sure people have heard of beer gas and so beer gas is a mixture of CO2 and straight nitrogen and the reason that they put the nitrogen in its because they want to keep their tags at high pressure so that they can push a beer out at a reasonable rate but they don't want to increase the bubble load by adding too much CO2 so they're adding a relatively insoluble gas right nitrogen to it so that it can so they basically just adds extra pressure I believe also it's nitrogen and not CO2 in the Guinness widget that sitting in the in the bottom of a Guinness and I think what's going on there is there literally just forcing some bubbles into a to create kind of a creamy head even though they're not increasing the actual total amount of CO2 doing it right so there are reasons to use other other gases but I don't know anything that would help necessarily in a in a carbonation setting what do you have any ideas of things you want to try

I was just wondering cuz you said you knows she was kind of sour tasting in 2 hours kind of sweet casing if there were any other things that we could have give you other flavors containing gases in liquids dissolve in just fine but it would make it taste god-awful you know what I mean but I haven't posted something they think it is good to try but they're they're the two readily available food grade gases that dissolve to a fairly large degree into into your into beverages so that those are the ones that's why we use them thank you very much thanks for calling in

all right so that brings us pretty close work I'm talk about one thing before you go to our first break but coming up on the next right after the next break Harold McGee is going to be here he's going to help us answer answer some questions one thing I wanted to address we had an email question okay for your calls by the way please call into 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 so we had a really interesting question coming by email don't worry all the email questions will get too so don't worry if I'm not doing yours first someone called in Matt Matt I pronounce Max name how handsome he is Restaurant Group is using someone who grows their own cattle and is using ultrasound to check the marbling of the meat while while they're alive so basically you're taking a cow their walk the putting an ultrasound on the couch and they're trying to measure the fat content of the cows so they can get the idea is trying to get higher percentage of prime Mart

meet then you are otherwise would and said he had never heard about this Tech technique before and he wanted to know something about it know about these guys running tests this is kind of I don't know how well I don't know how often to use nowadays but using ultrasound to test the fat level of animals has a fairly long history they've been doing it since at least the 80s and there's a bunch of different way so basically lean muscle meat and fat have a different properties for ultrasound the speed of ultrasound ultrasound is just basically any sound waves faster than you can hear it then you can hear over about twenty thousand cycles per second and it can penetrate through tissue which is why they use it to check for babies for ultrasounds and for medical Diagnostics if they can take pictures of it but even simply without an image you can tell based on the speed of the ultrasound is going through whether it's going through more fat or more lean you can tell because fat also reflects ultrasound in different ways

y'all so I can I think shift the frequency of the Ghostbusters there's a several different techniques I can use with ultrasounds to take a live animal in a very quick and easy to do way out in the field with it with a piece of machinery and take a picture and figure out figure out kind of a best guess as to what the technique of the inside of the muscles like in terms of its fat content and for in general there's a lot of interesting work being done with ultrasounds and a pay-per-view pay-per-view might be interested in is ultrasonic Innovations in the food industry from the laboratory to commercial Productions by Alex Alex patout used at all and that was in what journal the journal for Innovative food science and emerging Technologies in July 2007 thanks for calling and please post a question to the blog on that I'm interested in talking about ultrasound and meat quality more and this is our first break your listening to cooking issues on Heritage Radio Network


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hello Steve Arnold you are listening to cooking issues on Heritage Radio Network to show where you call in with your cooking issues and if we're lucky we get to solve them our number here is 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 and we're coming to you live every Tuesday from 12 to 12:45 Eastern Standard Time and get a real tree today because calling in Hazard call in guest is Harold McGee and Harold McGee for those of you that don't know there's probably a couple of you that don't know what is the ultimate all-time Master Blaster of science as it relates to delicious things in the kitchen so not industrial science but the science of how to make things taste better and he's calling in from San Francisco Harold you there

I am Dave hey good to talk to you how you doing pretty well so I actually have a caller calling in right now so you want to just you wanted to take their question real quick and then we'll never we'll hit some of the email questions we got so we have we have Derek on the line

hi Dave hey great to talk to both of you big fan I was thinking the other day but you get more flavor out of your stocks if you started with distilled water because it tends to it pulls in stuff such as carbon dioxide would it be more would it pull in more flavor from on whatever meat or what you were using as the base I wouldn't think you'd get much of an effect because it's going to become non distilled water pretty quick as soon as you put stuff into it and you typically know what you think Harold I agree completely yeah I mean it's it's it's distilled and nice and pure but the moment you put anything in it it's not and the difference between I think you have a few parts per million of of minerals in tap water and distilled water by the time you've made the stock is not going to be detectable

Sean how hard your particular water is a man out there that the Japanese a Japanese chefs insist that there's a huge difference in kombu stocks if if the water is excessively hard and they said they say that you know what the European water it's hard for them to make the good, who stocks they use bottled water and of course for beer brewing it's important but I just I don't I don't know that for regular stock right Harold me when you get when you think I mean and and you're extracting for a relatively short. Of time and was just a few minutes and so I think you know something where you're throwing in meat bones and vegetables in cooking for hours it could be much less important and you can go get back to this will post it because they you know there's no I always say that you know whatever I think is you know secondary to what you actually observe when you do it

exactly I think we'll take so much for calling in and before we go to anyone else here I don't know if you heard before we have someone calling you wanted to preserve the the kind of aromatics in cilantro and I said that you might be the best person to talk to about the best way to keep cilantro in top condition to try and make it smell like you just took it out of your garden do you have any tips on that boy it's it's tough with with fresh herbs because those flavor compounds are really fugitive in the cells are delicates and when they dry out they know everything gets scrambled up inside the cells and in the case of cilantro do you know the the more that you beat it up if you try to make a pesto for example the flavor actually become as much milder and so what you want to do I think probably is just dry it as gently as possible just to to minimize the damage to the cells

right he said he was doing it with a paper towel but also I think people store it too tightly a rap you almost want those like those bags that allow air to go through my because I think he's also having a loss in the refrigerator I think you said they were turning brown and kind of money you know what do you think if you just want to keep them alive than you know what I would do is you know cut the cut the stems to get a fresh and and then put them in a glass of water and then put a bag around the glass have a rubber band around the bag and not give it to you that prevents the odor from drying out in the refrigerator keeps them cool give them to supply water they're not going to be happy in the dark so that won't last forever but it's better than nothing

Harold Jets alt-right Saint Row 2 nastasha I feel weird taking your questions as well and says if we can whipped cream with sugar and we can whip egg yolks with sugar and why can't we whip creme anglaise and just to verify this morning before we came out to the show I tried to whip some creme anglaise and indeed it does not whip you know I also know that there's some problems sometimes people have problems whipping cream and straight cream that's been heated me what do you what do you think what do you think's going on here well in the case of cream can be equipped and egg yolks and Ike White's can both be whipped into a phone but that's true of the wrong versions of those things has been cooked so get it only puts if it's cold so it's at the conditions are right the proteins have been denatured in the temperature is wrong

there's something about heating cream and then cooling it that made you need to wait a long time what are you disrupting and cream that stops IT from whipping like that

play with with cream ball by itself and of course the cream of the surfaces of the oil droplets by whatever else you might have in there are sugars in the way so it's just going to make it much more difficult it's in the case of just plain old cream heating it and then cooling it back down and I can't see why that would make it harder to whip I mean I've never done it myself but I know people who've done it and said that they were able to do it and I've known people who done it and said that they weren't able to do it so I don't know I don't know where that where that is but the droplet takes awhile to get organized again after it's been heated you know you heat it up it becomes molten in the side and then if you chill it down at the beginning of the crystallized and I think you know maybe maybe just takes a while for you to get that to the Optum

when you whip at the edges of the crystals break through the membrane and begin to stick to each other and then you got a good phone ice cream base right yeah yeah I hope that answers your question let me see where we have anything I here's one that the herald you'll enjoy valve called in and said I love the radio show I'm traveling to Turkey in 3 weeks I was wondering if you guys have any suggestions as to where I can find some good celeb dondurma flower in turkey and plus you to know that I like that part of the current interest in Celebrity here in the United States is due to an article that Harold wrote a number of years ago in the New York Times on stretchy ice creams not and celeb isn't working powder that is available in Turkey but can't be exported because it's not that it's in danger but they just don't have enough that don't allow exports of it and a few add this.

screaming in BP ice cream vigorously it forms a stretchy stretchy ice cream is kind of unlike any other ice cream and it's a traditional kind of product over there but I don't know of any I don't never been to Turkey I've only ever had smuggled back for me what about you Harold you know of any I've never been to Turkey either so I really don't know who block who are you who know the turkey in the Middle East in general really well and who blog and you might check their sites and ask them one of them is Anissa helou a n i f f a h e l o u I forgot the the name of her sight but she knows is that part of the world really really well want you to probably give you some good advice and support a good source because different style of powders are very different and how much of the active principle they have in it and you know also like they sell some

just meant for 4 drinks and it doesn't necessarily have the same capability to make ice cream spreadsheet the two times I had it were smuggled back by interns and they just you know they packed it one time know the lanterns mom got stopped in the airport for coming from turkey with you know the vacuum bag thing of you know kind of powder and spent 3 hours talking to you know a very irate customers official about how it was not any sort of drug product they were trying to bring back in and it didn't it didn't make it in but you know I would get as much as you can as you can you're going to use anywhere from have to 1% in your recipe so that gives you any idea of how much you need to buy and Val ask one more question what would the results be with salad by scream if you froze and spine the package at the last this will not work stoppage it never had any luck trying to pack of Gatorade needs to be manually beaten after it's frozen need to manually freeze after you freeze it and then manually Beat It Nessie only way to get that

surely agree Harold or no is grateful lot of things but it's what it's basically doing is chopping the mixture into tiny little bits and that's the absolute reverse it what you want to do with tell if I scream you want to create the network like a glutton Network in bread dough and that's what gives it that wonderful stretch equality got to go out to our second break before we do I need to give you the number to call in one more time 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 we're coming back with Harold McGee this is cooking issues

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you're listening to cooking issues on Heritage Radio Network I am Dave Arnold I'm here in the studio with nastasha Lopez and on the telephone we have Harold McGee so you have one last chance to call in at 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 and I'll sweeten up the pot we will give away a another packet of riblets if you call in Harold's we have a couple more quick email questions we have to get through so why don't you take take care of those she had someone call and actually last week or right in last week who's interested in kind of Doug Baldwin's up formula for calculating the calculating when meat is going to be done I know you've done some work on it so Douglas Baldwin has this is kind of rather complex well not for him cuz he's a math professor but complex formula for determining the you know the heat of a when it's going to get you a butt

what do you really think the best thing is I think the best thing is to just cook a couple of things and get a feel for the size of thing and then just go go that way what do you think I can wait how long it's going to take for something to heat up in a water bath and it takes a lot longer than you think because the the difference between the temperature of the bath and the temperature of the food is relatively small and at me in the stead you know there's there's not much of a push behind the heat on the outside get to the inside. It it's 6 take for a while but they know that the calculations rate they can't account for all the variables that you're going to encounter like variations in the the thickness of the me and love me know the effect of the wrapping weather is if the if the rap isn't isn't perfectly field to got a couple of bubbles here and there it's it's going to slow things down so

I agree the best thing to do is just to have several packages and check every once in awhile give him a good long time and maybe use the formulas as a guide but but tested yeah I've never had really much of a need to know exactly how long was going to take but but also Nathan myhrvold posted a bunch of things number of years back on Eagle it we have another another caller who do we have aniline

hello hello yeah hi how you doing I'm a chef working on the east coast and I have a couple of questions about suvee cooker E2 a couple of specific situations rain right now where they were trying to come to fine-tune our radar with a couple different cuts of meat some of the newest successful somewhere still trying to the other very good but they still could be a lot better right now we're working with a thick cut pork chop it is kind of cut from the shoulder and so it has a high fat content and you know we tried kicking it around 50 to 54 degrees Celsius or anywhere between 4 hours 12 hours up to 24 hours and the problem is that you have the fat isn't breaking down and it ended up healing way you know we used to cook it conventionally and I'm more of a hot oven and we get like an eyesore.

elevation on the fat and it would be very palatable and you know what the temperature up to 70° play I was still a little like it got a little hammy you know it wasn't perfect then we brought down to 64° was kind of a nice you know medium we're kind of happy with that and we just passed through with running in a thermocouple actually hit 54 degrees Celsius when you're cooking you no tap and that's kind of one of the main things to work around when you're doing this kind of work and in fact you know Harold will agree like that's one of the things you know you don't particularly like some of these dishes because we don't get things like the like the rendering of

but I'll give you a agree Harold or know how to do a procedure on the meat that's going to start getting the flavor going and also you noticed going to pick up a lot more color a lot quicker on the Finish but that you might do something we do called Low temp for insurance purposes and so what that is as you cook the meat to like a a medium like a few want the inside to be whatever you want to be you know 50 50 in 50 high 50s and change or like 60 some when you cook it through and you chill the whole thing down and then you throw in the blazing hot oven right now you're just focused on the external texture of the of the chop and and and you can pull it as soon as it looks good because the insides already been cooked and it's going to be warm enough and so do this way you can serve something where you get a lot of the benefits reproducibility you know fairly quick turnaround time on on a pork chop

I take you into it and get more of a traditional flavor out of it where you know but still get some of the benefits of low temperature and so this works a lot on bigger bigger Cuts or a think things like that where you basically you just want to ensure that the inside is done so we call that kind of low temperature for insurance purposes and she might want to look into something like that like just cook it through to the lowest temperature you want cool it down and then take it from normal in a in a hot oven and just get that outside where you want it I think you might be happy with the results because a lot of times he wanted more traditional tasting special in some like a pork chop where you think carole's sounds good try to take it to a higher level with this sounds like I said he would definitely going to try and be careful with the lower temps like 52-54 here's why I mean will you kill bacteria down there yeah probably

one of the issues is when you load up a circulator and you hit those fairly low temperatures if the circular is crowded at all sometimes that the pieces of meat that are near each other will be shielded from the temperature for long enough at those low temperatures that you'll get lactic acid bacteria growing in so if you look in the people who post on sous-vide you noticed people saying oh my thing smells like sauerkraut My Thang smell like blue cheese by 2 Chainz because they're not killing the lactic acid bacteria fast enough so when you're doing those low low temperatures I would recommend a quick dunk of the bag into into maybe in December water just to kill all the lactic acid bacteria that are on the outside and and then and then go from there is another thing if you're having that problem I know that's the some people have had that problem and just real quick I know you guys are that you work with

poultry let's say game meat don't really people don't really they want their braces much lower than that and when I go higher than about 63 I start feeling like I'm losing the advantage 63-64 I start losing the advantages and low temperatures I tend to stay in that range but the best way of cooking charts if you go to cooking issues. Comm and look up low temp charts there's a chart that has basically all of our temperatures on it that's pretty that's pretty up-to-date I would check that out and then let me knock something out real quick Harold before I want to talk to you something about cuz it Harold and I are actually going to go to tales of the cocktail another car so I can't talk about Tales of cocktail Rye we have another call coming in here

okay how you doing how are you man all right okay, I answered my own tree into kind of the technical side of cooking has been that kind of budget at home I'm trying to eat usually before I roast. Are you familiar with this River Cottage meat book yes he'll talk about how he described the two-part roasting process one at like 4:25 and then it comes down to 50 75° for like the longer roast to cook through the crust and then to cook the meat through so I found this at home after brining that it didn't work what I've been doing

is a roasting a chicken the whole time at the same temperature so I wanted to know what what you guys thought about that about that to temperature versus one temperature and about that process cuz I've been you know getting a good Brown on the meat and cooking it all the way through with a lot you know the more technique I applied to it the worst of the results got to let you take this one cuz you focus a lot on these kinds of techniques specifically with oven so I'm going to let you know that you take this guy you can you can get a good result in a lot of different ways and it just depends on the details of what you do and then what you're looking for in the end so the high temp powered by low temp is a pretty standard way of doing things gives you that initial blast of high temperature starts the Browning on the surface and

can you turn the heat down to cook it through more gently if you left it at the high temperature too long then you'd end up overcooking the outside while the inside was still cooking true but with something like a chicken which is relatively small and which Cooks relatively quickly can get good results at 500 degrees and it's done really quickly and it comes out pretty juicy because even though the outside temperature is so high the rapidity of the cooking means you end up with a new not reasonably juicy inside you can also cook at a low temperature when you say that you're cooking at the same temperature constantly is it is it like what's 400° Reno-Tahoe Ford F-350 375 read in there yeah yeah

to get on the on the skin it works because I think the Brian the Brian and then the drying after the brain allows easier so you do what you do let's just let it sit in the fridge for a day to the driving I think I could bring it over night and then in the morning you know with my cereal I'll take it out and dry it it drive when I come home then for dinner so that's good those are the little details that can make all the difference in the world if he was if you brine without the drying then you're going to end up with usagi chicken at 400° or 375 and you really need that high temperature to bake out the the moisture and get the brown and going yet if you've already pre dried it then then that's not an issue and then it forms that kind of pellicle you know any gets Brown there a Dick's can get the kind of clear and tacky my other question to you is if you're cooking that it 500 really high really fast

do you have to attend Polo do you have to eat me good time does it cook through with that fast

resting it does is a good idea because of the the outside parts of the of the bird have gotten pretty hot and it's a chance for the for the juices to the kind of redistribution of their they've been squeezed out that they have a negative the muscle completely and so they can kind of settle in and find the find the dry spots and and and redistribute them give you something more evenly juicy okay because of the two different temperatures for this somehow I was being unfaithful and now I realize that the drying made all the difference in the proof is in the pudding to things out with you Harold we got to follow up in this is right up your alley Chris and called him

about the cilantro just sent a text to saying I realized I forgot to mention that I've had some luck preventing Rock by washing with aqueous ozone it's really the stabilization of the flavor itself that I'm after and he thinks it may be stuck in Allen at the days in it and they say it's so is a quote it's so damn fleeting even in totally unwrapped and bunches anything to say about that

well you do speaks to the the variability among people and their sensitivity to these Aroma compounds because there are people who who can't come within a mile of a bunch of cilantro without smelling the name of the tiniest quantities hope it did may just be that he loves me, but is less sensitive to it and so it's going to be harder to find a bunch with with enough of the stuff to really make an impact any week we have one quick question that came in I promise I get to all the early email ones he Scott from your hometown San Francisco wants to know how to make a foam to put on top of his dirty martini with an olive Ryan based on a drink he had at the bazaar in Los Angeles and just wants to know some basic pointers can you do it with that stuff in the supermarket yes I would get yourself some I'll get yourself some

lettuce and granulated kind and and and or xanthan gum and or a combination I would not add any more than about a quarter percent or so of xanthan you catch a little more Edwin had much more and anything up to about 1/2 to 3/4 or percent of lecithin put a stick blender into the mixture hold it at an angle so that the blade of the stick blender is going in and out of the liquid and that's going to cause the bubbling and frothing and you should be able to get a phone with not just post a question to the forms are the cooking issues and I will answer it here and I are actually going to a couple days actually going to both be in New Orleans are going to tales of the cocktail which is an event where Harold will be speaking with my good buddy Tony Conigliaro and good buddies and Audrey Saunders and then one more cocktail related thing if you want to come learn high-tech cocktail stuff including some home friendly things from me personally and Nils my my

head of the French culinary in my partner-in-crime here we are doing a class on June 28th at the French Culinary Institute at 6 p.m. I sadly we're out of time and I'm really upset because Harold I had a bunch of interesting stuff to talk to you about with a new rotary of operation breakthrough so we may just yesterday but I guess I'll go out there yeah but turns out I think I might have a way to do really delicious distillations water-based and then added to alcohol quickly to try and keep the aroma in as I found it like I can with liquid nitrogen I can I can basically even a water-based installations are normally Neo-Nazi flavorful so fleeting that if you if I use a cool things with liquid nitrogen do my distillation that way and then immediately melted into alcohol that I get a very good result and I'm still working with it so I was hoping to talk to you about that on the radio but alas we are out of time so I hope Harold I hope you enjoyed calling in I enjoyed having you hopefully you can come again anyone who text Anastasia a little bit later I'm sorry we didn't get your questions will get to them next time

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