Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 275: Precious Abalone Flesh

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Arizona Heritage Radio Network from Bushwick Brooklyn at Pizzeria call Adams the freelance Now call Adam see freelance drone / food Master Colorado in the Boost what up nothing but I'm sure you'll all be excited direct from the West Coast Francisco I don't know beforehand a couple of people will get to see exactly how much better hair Elizabeth soda stuff

food or not food-related to 718-497-2128 that 718-497-2128 call was like Hey can you do cold brew coffee yesterday which was successful because I want to do a water three to four hundred grams of coffee before it before. And so they

about two leaders or somewhere in that range of liquid so it can spin it so I have to think of a new technique for doing because oh my God keeping you close rabbit at the problem if I'm slow Trevor but then compacted in my pump tubes and had to wait I'm going to try to get this I want to put the get this so what all does he vacuum infuses his cold brew to get a jump on actually gave the liquid into the into the ground coffee correct regular garbage FoodSaver right not like a decent vacuum cleaner

started very easy chart pressure rated are you flirting with death you know it's for safety. You know I probably should have a net around it or like tape it with electrical tape until suddenly it is not it is not noticed it was a kid if you bought all the older stuff a Pyrex meant what it said Pyrex fire like Rex glass like borosilicate glass it was clear and stuck around the stove used to sell stovetop pyrexia borosilicate glass this fundamentally labware like a beaker

it doesn't crack as it doesn't expand enough to get to crack as it goes up right now new Pyrex on the stove it will explode it is no longer borosilicate glass and some awful human being some terrible awful garbage enemy of quality Satan mongering bastard kept the name Pyrex on this 9 borosilicate glass and it when it explodes it also doesn't explode into Pleasant little pieces into your kitchen

yeah and and for nothing you said do you might not know about glasses that glass can have a lot of built-in stresses in it that you aren't apparent and cracks can slowly probably from and what happens if cat scratch propagate all the sudden they can reach a critical point where they probably extremely quickly so I remember once in grad school we had a Pyrex new variety this it back when it was relatively new that you couldn't put Pyrex on the stove and it was sitting on the counter like a day after we had used it and just

exploded and shattered glass all over our kitchen so I only use now for cold measuring when you have to see through things but they are Satan are the devil and they should be taken to task for what they've done to what used to be a fine old friend named what do you think it's so you pull that out with the vacuum so that liquid can then enter the grounds the whole point of feeling like stealing from Harold to me

and he's going down like it's always some Sydney and you get that insane like the same you don't know I've never met an antique like I into that emotion and float up to the top of an espresso thing right so I think people are against kind of that and I prefer that flavor the stuff underneath my micropipette and will fraction based on height in the NFL in the coffee right now

release the vacuum and then until the spins all I have to let it filter for several hours like a chump to be like this I'm going to put the coffee into the rotor dry and then use the force centrifugal force to like like force the liquid into the into the coffee under pressure and then see if I can just continuously make it without having to do the vacuum step and this way to coffee will pre-pack in I'm a little worried that like an espresso situation I'm going to get channeling and I'll just keep extracting out of the same piece of the coffee as I go through but this is also going to need to be tested

or I can just pack in their coffee and free wedding

rather than totally dry I'm more worried about like a zit like as Water Works its way through the coffee it will be removed extracting crap from sin coffee extract scrap from St. Channel is now easier to extract through and everything's hydrated and swollen and so then it seems to me that because water is going to take the path of least resistance the same way that when you poorly pack Nespresso pod can you get that the channels around the round the outside. Going to have something similar happen and if I don't know who knows best coffee off of a regular ngon coffee Popular Science nice you know what people being a writer is like a good magazine writer I mean I guess not anymore

what you know

hello a gentleman in the stop girl how are you guys to cook sunchokes I have tried cooking them on low temperature about 225 overnight and I still experience so I'm wondering is there any you know Constable way to cook them like you my friend have called on the right date Harold wrote a whole chapter in the second book on the flatulence inducing powers of the sunchoke and if she wishes to pipe up nastassia Lopez purposely poison one of her friends with undercooked sunchokes on purpose so I will just invited sunchokes

National distress if eaten in large quantities so I hairline take it away well at least you can make them less difficult progressively less difficult by cooking them cooking them cooking them for when you do that they lose texture and they get sweeter sweeter sweeter so they become less themselves and more like I don't know underground candy or something like that and I don't find that particular flavor especially nice when it when it gets to that stage so I would say that you know there is the saying in medicine the door the dose makes the poison I would just figure out how many slices you can actually take and serve that number and just otherwise you're not going to have the experience

long-chain inulin is a it's actually a bunch of length of fructose molecules it's launching from does the other common thing we use it has a lot of lot of inulin is agave so when you long long long long long road to God that you can Virginia Ave to fructose which is why I got a syrup is a high fructose product and that is enforced the main fermentable but the only fermentable in tequila and mezcal see a few more you break it down to Sweet of that sucker is going to going to get what's yours have you tested your dose response relationship arrow with us and chose I can actually take like a medium size one

or a couple of smaller ones and really not feel it but but also I don't mind feeling it a little bit because probiome happy few is there a difference in different people so the reason that it causes all those problems down there is that your body can't digest inulin but the microbes in your gut have no problem digesting inulin and when they do so they produce gas and you know that causes extreme discomfort especially in some people looking at the Stasi Lopez and I hope that's that's where you as a possible way of getting rid of some of the

yeah yeah but they're they're going to do

so you're again going to come and eat away the structure of the of the route that and turn it into something else I mean I have not tried it I have not have not already to follow you tried that sucker you speaking country a francophone country I want to try to take the strings out of celery with it while it wouldn't let it remain crunchy that's my goal is one of my life goals different so praise dance like certain bacteria can ferment and produce gas while they a different group of bacteria can ferment the same product did not produce gas is there a difference between different peoples microbiome

and so if you consume a lot of something could you favour bacteria that maybe doesn't produce as much gas when it's eating it like you're getting some Sudden Rush from something that can be like a man they take it in and then like that that Colin will get superseded by different microbrews at 9 possible which which I have some of the same problems for the same reasons indigestible carbohydrates and I think I would I recall is that people could with time tolerate more so and that could be one or two different things that could be other microbes getting in on the ACT and using those carbohydrates and not generating gas or it could be other microbes in the community taking advantage of the gas being produced by the microbes that can digest in your loan and turning that into

something else so they could be taking up the hydrogen as soon as it's generated and using it for their own metabolic processes some sort of like adaptability to these non fermentable carbohydrates should we just go eat like build your Sedona tolerance is it then you can pull the realness. Anastasio only went half way she had a horrible experience with sunchokes she and Piper cooked a boatload of them because they said 10 thought about they had rather curious and they had like a horrible night of gastrointestinal distress because they were there basically just eating a big pile of cooked sunchokes and sauce right and then nastassia invited her friends to a picnic where she served the exact same dish to them and then just picked around all the sun shows like making a big deal

that's that's how she did it but if she was a real baller right if she was really going to push the envelope of evil she would slowly slowly slowly build up a tolerance to Sun shows like a lot of them and then she can be ghusli like fork in them into her face with with you know complete lack of concern Michael my friend right there it's just I think that's on the phone and it was horrible horrible like so for years I wanted to make who go who go to papa's fruit that's like french fry juice because it's what I used to say to Dax all the time we were joking about cuz he know Spanish and I don't so I was just make up random

allows me to completely like liquify and then sacrifice things for the distillers enzymes that music's an extra and terminally ill from Nova X and so I cook some french fries but they're pretty good they're okay they were my best french fry I didn't cook fry good I-81 verify they tasted good and then I went to them with like a little bit of water and some enzymes and MASH come out in and basically like you would for liquor that I can get complete liquefied and they were completely liquid sweet sweet sweet and then I spotted them and it spins all and I got French-fried juice and it was his wretched tasted terrible salted assaulted by stated I was like and they are much like in O'Hara was saying before this is just like you know like all these years I've been thinking about it

it just was not good when maybe if I'd had a really high powered Center fuse that I could like make it totally clear like you know I would need like 40 or 50 I'll probably be like $40,000 used to really do what I wanted there but even so like I wasn't like you and I like when you're working on something it's going somewhere and you like how this is going somewhere I tasted like this and I would like I've been wasting my brainpower thinking about this is a little like you know me but it's like you know it's not eating french fries and there's some like like terrific be refreshing drink that I'm having pain in my mind they combined their french fries and ice cream combine my French fries and ice cream or delicious in a Sunday Just Dance and french fries into it and eating it it is good it tastes good but like

yeah this is just not good I did not because I tell you know what, a pretty good judge is carbonate properly and I guess there's just nothing Pleasant about was not like for me I could maybe I could fermented plant especially when it's only a little bit of it there so maybe what you need to do is make fresh fry french fries and then I'll try that I once made a french fry booze it's not really it's not it's not French-fried juice unless it's literally the juice of a french fry is not poogle de papas fritas unless it is literally french fry juice

I have made french fry infusions that were okay but they don't last they go rancid you need to do it all of me knew they taste really bad after the end interesting ly you know that that flavor of old potato chip flavor that potato that you had enough for that nastiness I don't know what causes that do you know what causes of sulfur containing aldehyde from the pioneering the no answer old potato and swamps out the other more delicate hands when you fry a potato that you had in the fridge if it tastes good like that why you can like refrigerate like like Let It fry so cold in between first and second fry or or do you have to store Frozen like if you take a between first and second fry you can put a fry in the fridge till it gets that nasty texture then when you fry it

fish fry then it's good again is that because it's volatile and just gets driven off I think you're also generating all those aldehydes from the frying oil which which were going to dominate but they're of the aldehydes from the frying process are polyunsaturated fats so they're really reactive and I think that's part of the reason maybe that the experiment didn't work is that there if they're sitting there for any length of time with stuff that can react with them like proteins in particular it's going to happen and they're going to go away

pick another color with a question for Harold

speaking of the foods that cause discomfort this is Jeff the Jeffrey in Costa Mesa how's it going when I Harold sense of smell was wiped out for like a month not not nearly as bad but for about a week everything that I ate had a bitter aftertaste eating very uncomfortable and and a mild depression because food was not something I look forward to. You're scouring the internet and my memory to try and think of what I may have

done or eaten to cause this first I just figured I had a brain tumor and my pipe and receptors are all screwed up but it it it looks like it was I had been pounding pain that has been a couple days since I had why are taken out by a pine nut

yeah and I think Francis Lam also but but he was concerned so you know they eat one of these kind of like a very fine china it's a particular species x with us that kind of bitter hangover and I haven't looked at the literature for a couple of years ago I had no clue what that molecule was and how it active

that that would make sense yeah yeah that make me what you have to do is because our taste cells are constantly being replaced maybe you just have to get you have to slap those off so unlike miraculin which is a temporary buying and gets washed away or gymnemic acid which is a temporary buying and gets washed away you're saying this might permanently F those taste receptors and have to wait for them to get regenerate but like I said I haven't eaten all the time react this way it's it's one of those subjects for you know nobody's going to pay for the research that we would all like to have dinner so it's it was

sickly as of a few years ago mostly anecdotal and and really hard to draw firm conclusions about backing up because people do vary in their sensitivity to Bitter in the first place my guess is that it probably affects most people that way but not everybody and not even know it doesn't affect money did Vice on avoiding those particular pine nuts high in some stores not much and then their European pine nuts for like five times that that are are American Southwestern pine nuts commercially available at all or no

dinner in a general sort of way I remember going to the Grand Canyon in the winter ones and in an area nearby there ever pine pine cones on the ground and they already been no squirrels and curly got math emerge as or something like that so we cracked a few open and taste of them and they were good and and there was no hangover how many times out of a hundred when nastassia when we saw a new students in the Italian program with the FCI did they burn those freaking time that's when they like ninety-nine point nine times out of a hundred try not to those things it's a classic thing when you're learning to cook right you try to toast the pine nuts and they go from like 02 ruined if I do you have to have an Eagle Eye on those pine nuts like that's what you should like that like that you must be able to have this mental ability to keep track of your pine nuts if you're going to make it in the kitchen

they're like the garlic of the world that hazelnuts clearly have something in the middle of them that that Brown's more rapidly than the stuff on the exterior of the nut that's why the hazelnuts always you can think you had an over roasted them and when you crack them open the Interiors are over roasted it must be surface that you don't find another not send the the part of the hazelnut that isn't surface doesn't get brown as fast as the surface part so I thought it had something to do

just surface mess but then I thought about the thermodynamics of it then decided that probably wasn't correct to my guess is there's probably some kind of code or something like that. Okay so back take the cavities they placed between the two cotyledons right in there somewhere in there may be there I don't know the other stuff is happening right there, we should we should make a list of interesting questions like that but no one's going to pay that actually do the research on and just put them out there so that people who have the resources and curiosity may be abused their they're cool machines to figure out something that you know the professionals never will

I like that to me no offense to are in fence offense intended by the way but aren't haven't been answered or somehow more interesting than but I kind of the stuff that he runs through what do you think different people's responses to bitterness how much do we know not just about quantifying that but qualitative different types of bitterness like for me I can drink extremely strong coffee and I love it but even a faintly strong beer is much too bitter for my sensibilities have basically one or two for most of them taste modalities except for bitterness for which we have dozens and it's probably because there are so the boss

he doesn't really care so much to distinguish between say alkaloids with your bitter and you know compounds which are bitter it just wants you to know that these things are are these complex molecules are there they're probably not good for you so pay attention and so we have receptors for all these different categories of metals and and things like that as well but they all send basically the same signal which is bitterness which is just watch out and I think that's what's going on you've got those dozens of receptors you got most of them but they're there's one that you have extra copies of and maybe not enough copies or not doesn't as many copies of the coffee one

color of the meat for me to use curing salt when making corned beef most thanks Susan so I can have a chance to research I don't know if you did Harold feel like everyone always says that gets the cured color and flavor but then I wasn't able to find any immediate references on what cured flavor is from a from a relatively quick curing standpoint in 9th nitrates or nitrites do you know anything about that studied in longer carrying and I don't know I can't cite chapter and verse about how long but I think it's the case you know that these molecules are there they contain nitrogen which is reactive and which is going to react with stuff in the meat that improves compounds you wouldn't have otherwise and their antioxidants and so they're going to prevent

reactions from taking place that would otherwise and so they're going to shift the flavor of the meat when it's cooked to do something a little different from the salt proper thread because they're such large quantities and it's affecting all the all the the protein conformation but I can identify cured flavor

well things have you had a lot of things that are cheap like it's like I've never ever done side-by-side one night right one not and the results George flavor sweet Inus hard to describe a little

talk to describe exactly that's the problem until I get them for years I guess I'm saying she would color and flavor but like you can't really describe it but you know that and then you say what bacon obviously doesn't taste like pork belly but then they're like well that's because it's been smoked I like no it's not just the smoke smoke

yeah and then I sit here and I also think it's not just one thing it's preventing some reactions from taking place and encouraging other reactions to today play so that you do shift the center of gravity of the flavor from one area to another oxidation in beef brisket and you will in pork belly

yeah I'm saying more profound effect then on fast that are more unsaturated like pork fat versus beef which is a much more saturated fat based on what I just wondered because you're actually a lot of but not just creating flavor but you're as you say lemonade things meet in terms of oxidation for for the fat part yes but every cell has has what are they called the Westfield membranes and there and they're always unsaturated to varying degrees so I think you've always got it and it doesn't take a lot of untapped

lipid oxidation for you to notice it so I think probably what's going to be important as what's in the membranes and not just what's in the storage fat fair enough hello cooking issues crew I've been trying I've been trying to find some info on the interwebs regarding cooking whole wild Abalone in a low temperature set up so to bypass a relation step normally associated with cooking abalone the few articles that I found usually deal with the tiny farmed Abalone found live tanks Asian grocery stores in fish markets have a large red Abalone that we Harvest here in north northern California the brutal nature of thin thick steaks are cubes or even cook hold have it be as a tender is the aforementioned finally tenderize scallopini of gastropod has me seeking new methods of cooking I have a commercial back and a juul

circulator Jewel so ready to go this is a very rare delicacy foremost and not something they would feel comfortable with possibly wasting Precious Precious Abalone flash on trial run crafts you or someone from the chefsteps crew at tackle this issue as they are up in the Pacific Northwest and probably cooked Abalone this way before any help would be great thanks Josh from NorCal so I don't have any experience with with them you know cooking fresh Abalone while I had some delicious fresh Abalone in China like really really good and I don't know how they did it and I wouldn't say this I spoke to Grant access that's when I was out there a week and a half ago Dever about his preparation of geoduck which was the setting for the greatest gooey Ducks I've ever had and I thought it was just a low temperature cooking that he had use cuz he used to cvap to do the low-temperature cooking on it and then you guys have actually had I had it with you that night we were there the same night and I think all you had to do some other time is great right

so he put in a vacuum bag and beat the crap out of it so like I was like I was that low temperature cooking like made it that tender he's like that and beating the crap out of it to just heat it up without actually cooking it I think that was how he did it massively tenderized it and then just warmed it rather than cooking it all the way through but do you have any high pressure processing most people who tenderize whole Abalone it looks like they either do a very long braids with a pressure cook it I don't know whether that's what do you do when you got in the store I mean he said it it's a rare delicacy it's so rare that I've never had it I've I've had the the farmed Abalone but you know basically out there if you're not diving for it yourself or you know someone who's driving forward you just don't see it so I have no experience with in with a when you're doing that when you cook octopus for a long time

tough and then need to either be cook rapidly or beaten and could rapidly or cook very little or cooked a long time so you should a lot of work on that so let's pretend for a minute that cuz it's probably have fairly similar muscle chemistry right I mean like in terms of like what makes them ones obviously much tougher I have worked with the the little ones and their meat is just so different from from octopus that I'm not sure that the information is transferable but I mean what I was trying to do this is another example of something no one's going to pay to do it so somebody do it then then let the rest of us know about it let's put this way do you like pressure cooked octopus or no

yeah it's it's okay it's okay long long and slow and then figuring out what time temperature thing but then again

here's my saying right so the farm one is going to be different from the wild one ride different species of what is it a leotis write a different species different size different age but if you figure out how to cook the cheap one and make it tender it seems like you then could limit the number of Trials you have to pull the deal right I mean I looked up people pressure cooking it and they seem to enjoy pressure cooking a whole but then he means it's going to be pressure cook is not going to be

you know by the way I'm not a huge fan in general using protease enzymes on me. Are you Harold because they get mushy on the surface but the interior is not fixed I'm wondering in an abalone because of the structure of the meat and the fibers in it whether or not you could do a quick basic makeup of an enzyme solution and vacuum Infuse it into the entire thing and then have the tenderization happens throughout or even use high-pressure in like a DC or something enforce the enzyme into the meat structure under pressure and then in fact

when you open that and it Foams back out again you'll also tenderize by internally ripping me animal apart as they bubbles come out I'm wondering whether that might be a decent approach like it's quick I mean since long Stokes and things that multiply the outside that's what makes it off all right maybe doing what you just said but after a preliminary pounding to cuddle loosen things up begin with

is it a question we had a couple of weeks ago that I missed on coconut fat and guess manything many thanks for answering my question on plug and play. The controllers are freezers be with me Elina sassy typically in the UK is between 16 18% fat content for gum I've used this both directly and shake and drinks and made of syrup with equal parts by weight of coconut milk and sugar and other versions were out I've dilated the coconut milk with say a further 25% by volume with water before adding equal weight of sugar can I just get to the question okay do you have any pointers for making her using coconut milk where the flocculating / falling out of a motion can be avoided so you have hit a very hard problem Scott reisler who's the head of the tick comes out on the west coast and this is a known problem coconut fat suspending coconut fat in a liquid is a no

difficult experience with Harold I don't know difficult problem and the reason is difficult like literally hard and hard to suspend so when people are using coconut in beverages right so the stuff that they make coconut milk that they may have life is fine for soups are you going to stir it and typically and those are stabilized I think you're right with guar and other things but for the beverage application which I got to be served cold come keep the fat emulsified and not stop flying together when you're cold and so for that you need to turn to a product we have here named after nastassia the Coco Lopez coconut cream but the problem with Coco Lopez coconut cream is it extremely sweet right now if you want to see just how difficult it is to keep that stuff emulsified in your pinacolada and why basically unless you use a lot of fancy Tech

you really need to go by the Coco Lopez I will read to you the ingredient list couple of Coco Lopez coconut milk sugar water polysorbate 60 sorbitan monostearate salt and citric acid for guar gum and locust bean gum so what you have here is a dress like it's like they took they took the biggest elephant gun they can get a mass of thickeners stabilizers was PGA in the most fire and a thickener / stabilizer and actual emulsifiers most of which are based on stearic acid

and blew it into this thing is like the most stabilized like crap that they don't need so it's like Chef's right when she comes up with the recipe and they've used $18,000 right but they've gone through like 5 days of figuring out what's going on and they finally find the recipe that works but they don't do they don't go back and one by one yank the things they put into it out to see whether they actually need it right they don't so they write the recipe with that huge black poop spray ingredients in it and then eventually some knucklehead forget to put it in and was sure if I forgot to put it in and then they go taste especially because these ingredients of a relatively low cost of use relative to the rest of the food you're buying in a restaurant right so just recipes very very rarely get changed after their made

that's not the way it works in Industry like seriously like them from their formulation so they can use something else that has a lower cost in use because it's millions of dollars at stake so the fact that the Coco Lopez Corporation uses such a large wealth of a stabilizer means they need you know what I mean by this year long time listener if with Boston Boston Town any good projects there was some fun once transparent potato chips transparent

Andrea's be a boiled potatoes in water to make a potato flavored liquid and then added potato starch taste good like a potato chip before I said what you do if you had a real Maui potato chips kettle-cooked hand Kettle cooking from Maui 2011 which gave mention the Canadian centrifuge it was originally known as a seer of all SS one that's the danger fuse for all of you who are keeping track

see you later but apparently safer spinzall good luck he gives us good luck has fun without a housing occasionally the best let go and fly into a wall dr. roskin became as mad as a Hatter as a result best regards can all right listen Harold thanks for coming over are you always be so you should come back to the east coast you know you love it too much in San Francisco

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