Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 272: Clean & Sterilized

this episode is brought to you by Jewel the emergent circulator for sous-vide by chefsteps what are now at Joule your sessions radio broadcasting live from Bushwick Brooklyn for thousands more

listen very special day here in the studio join with nastassia the hammer Lopez as you have Yaya from Popular Science Now now it just displaying Paul Adam that'll do Master drones master of crowns 100%

I like that this is a very special day

okay okay folks the by the way Happy Thanksgiving this is the Thanksgiving episode of the cooking issues so if you have any Thanksgiving questions please call the man we were going to have today Mark Ladner from Del posto going to do that right after the break right so we're going to push Black Friday go out and purchase his book purchase purchase the book and then will come and we'll talk about he'll come in next week's schedule so that our listeners to the show we at Booker and Dax have been working for it seems like forever building a centrifuge specifically for the kitchen and bar and that's actually why Paul is here Paul is helping us out with what's about to happen we are at the point in production where we are actually getting the tooling made for the actual

item and so we are going to put it on pre-sale on Black Friday pre-sale

do you know like when we're going to put the video video up before the pre-sale so people can watch the video or no we haven't decided yet is the first you ask me yes I know this is why they call it live radio what do you what do you want to do well maybe people in the chat room and we have a real problem of the videos I was a reason I don't want to do it right there's a there's one thing or a videographer had a family emergency so you know we had to shoot it ourselves and I actually am late today for a decent reason I was actually editing thing to listen I am not a video editor so if you're like I don't want to hear it I don't want to hear it made by a professional video or write a professional Center

why you do this why you do that why is it I got it from my wife yes my wife

you didn't go to school for video editing I had to go to school for Fine Arts but not for video editing it's true anyway. I simply don't want to hear them but keeping to yourself a centrifuge shoot your own promotional video make a promotional video by the centrifuse play whatever you like by we made the video with the Proto the name of the centrifuge is spindle

spinzall fins off The Culinary centrifuge everything you can spin a rock as long as you have enough liquid cam spins all that the link is up now but it's just a splash page it's going to go well right now but it's going to be. Com order pre-order your spinzall now only it's not now it's in 3 days and we're going to hear about it if I put it up will hear about it

anyway even talk about it talk about it or should I just say watch the video talk about it talk about how does it work basically in a nutshell it says I'll give you the pic so the centrifuge is if you ask anyone if you ask we didn't have time to go out and get their what's it called they are you know testimonials but we'll get some later Point by Chris Young back when he was I think he wrote that section of modernist cuisine but you know all the modernist cuisine crew I believe this and Wiley believes that the think Tony Conigliaro believes it I think a lot of people believe that the one piece of Modern Gear that is kind of Beyond a lot of people from a price standpoint it in the road of that because that one's not as necessary to your day-to-day work in a in a kitchen it's the centrifuge now especially for bar work

centrifuge you need it you know what I mean it's we don't need if you're going to do the kind of stuff that I like to do you need it if you're going to make your own or Shaw's it's extremely useful if you're going to do you know do carbonation you to clarify things do you want to do Christina was just a wide variety of things for Cooks it makes like fantastic herbal oil you got to know turn a bunch of like good techniques that it's really really good for but it's the one piece of equipment it's really kind of been beyond most people's capabilities both home and pro so at 8 professionals the problem is that the centrifuge is extremely large so it's you know it's the size of basically like takes up the same room that nothing would take up in the kitchen but you also need to be able to get to it right it also need balancing could have big buck it's super heavy cost like eight to ten thousand dollars but those are nice because they do like they do like three at a time really like one or two because you don't fill the buckets of all the way but like

8 to $10,000 10,000 if you need the refrigerator and most of you do because those centrifuges tend to keep products up quite a bit on the home side where the birds in your kitchens in your garage you can have the space to have a centrifuge there but you just don't have the space and also it's very hard to justify at home spending a $10,000 but they alternative for a centrifuge to induce Molly sings has basically been to $200 will call him the champion or are you know Paul you had what's yours called really Veterinary blood market so the terrible name it sounds like seal the musician

no more like seal the animal and why would you seal because it's for blood so it's SEALS or doesn't spray dog blood in your eyes it sounds like some form of birth control is going in a weird place they've actually it's name for a musician who invented it making like a all said and done like like you know 80 ml at a time a hundred at a time in a small package and you move to what's called an open bucket so we build a 500 mL of rotor rotor holds 500 x 500 mL not like they're really holds 300 hold 500 mL of product and it spins that much and it's huge and open so it's really easy to get the stuff out of its got fins a balance is kind of like a dishwasher

dishwasher Bosch washing machine balances is it uses a liquid ring balance so as luck would have it or a safe space physics would have it when something spins if there's a liquid in it that liquid will tend to move sets that counteracts in Balance it's inside the rotor attempts to self balance the trick with it is and I can say every patents on this Earth go back decades and decades and has been a problem for a long time when spinning ring balances I've been around since since forever but one of the problems is so you need to keep the liquid from smashing so that I can actually balanced properly one way to do it is to increase the viscosity of a liquid I can't do that because I don't know what you're going to spend so we have fins inside the bucket that keep the entire ring of stuff rotating as a tourist but then we also have to allow movement in between so part of the art is figuring out the shape of the fins on the inside to get to work right but also nice and you take the bins out you have access to the whole inside of the bucket the other trick is

is I want you to be able to do more than 500 mL at a time so we have it called a tube feeder that shifts into the rotor that allows you to add product into the center to use as it's spinning and then it did it pours out and so that's basically that's how it works now there's some some some facts about it that are kind of cool for those who they haven't used a lot of centrifuges before spinning buckets is what we all use because you need the capacity but fixed angle rotor which is the kind of a crappy clean a seal model actually clarify a lot faster and a lot better at a given G-Force then the Dennis Sweeney bucket ones do in ours acts like a like a fixed angle rotor but is like is like a big bucket so the funny thing is is that we can actually clarify things most of the time faster than the big Center fusions can even though we're actually running at half the g-forces and like half the noise level and like infinitely more safety than the other one is

and whole thing fits into something slightly larger than a food processor that it's so easy to lift in fact that I have it in my backpack all you like this and stuff you enjoy this listen to stash your favorite kind of story so right after this we're going to Food and Wine anyway so I'm running up to the subway stairs to get here and you know how sometimes you don't lift your highness can you kick the stair lift my foot high enough I kick the stair and I start going down now I have the centrifuge dispense all on my back and so I say OK as I'm going down I'm like I could try to catch myself but if I try to catch myself there's a possibility that I will Spin and smack my backpack into spend like you know when you catch yourself if you only catch yourself a little bit but you continue to rotate you'll spin over and you'll smack in on the other side so I just went straight down on my knees right

stairs yeah I was more interesting facts about the spins all is that it will run it runs on either not for those of you that don't know the United States power supplies that we use here are a hundred and twenty volt 225 depending on where you are but the key thing here is that they are a 60 cycles per second 60 Cycles that's the that's the frequency of the power at me now in Europe right now you're a all of your battery runs at 50 cycles per second 2:20 to 2:40 or something somewhere in there now

it's not really the voltage the voltage is easy you just put a Transformer on it and you can change the voltage the real problem with equipment is changing the number of the frequency of the power because it changes the speed at which Motors operate the good news in the spins all is that it doesn't care what frequency you put in so you will need a Transformer to use it in Europe or or actually you won't need it interesting that you won't need a transformer in Japan Japan's the weird one it runs at a hundred and twenty volt 50 Cycles which is crazy are voltage but like a European Standard for the frequencies crazy so yeah so it'll run anywhere in the world with a Transformer and an adapter and the reason is that in order the centrifuge most Motors most AC Motors alternating current Motors are locked to some fixed number or not lock but they run based on that they're their RPM is based on

some multiple of the line frequency so when you're running a motor and AC motor at 60 hertz with 60 horsepower and you take it to the country at 150 horsepower you're running it at 5-6 the speed slower by you know by a good job and that would not be good for the centrifuge running at a slower speed but luckily this in order for the spinzall to work properly part of the patented invention patent pending that mention that patent pending is that the rotor speed moves up and down slightly so once it reaches its full speed which by the way is about 4100 RPM it will decelerate Annex accelerate a kind of sinusoidal oscillate up and down and the reason it does that is to create a little bit of angular acceleration of the Ring tourist on the inside of the spinning thing and it allows the puck they salvaged to four more evenly around the ring and it actually helps to sediment the stuff faster because it kind of from experience when I haven't done music

anecdotally but it kind of helps the particles big and it gives me a faster clarification so he's up and down but to do that this spinzall actually creates the frequency that the motor runs at consequently it doesn't care what frequency you put into it so you can run it anywhere anything else so it will be NSF certified UL certified and Cee certified we're going for all the certifications now you might ask how much would I have to pay for such a thing as well the retail price is what's the retail prices that's it 9999 999 on PS4 this presale only we are going to sell it for 699 yet

I'm not even going to charge the extra $0.99 just 699 shipping will be included in the United States but foreign people will have to pay for their own shipping here's the thing we need to pay for the tooling and we need to pay for the building them and nastase and I don't just don't have the money I would pull the money out of my pocket if I could but I just don't have the money so we're going to pre sell them at that price but if people don't buy them if we can't get the pre-sales to do it we just won't make it so the way the pre-sales going to work is you're going to you're going to basically pledge to buy once not actually a Kickstarter but it's going to run similarly to a Kickstarter put on the modernist Pantry website you're going to pledge to buy one and then only after we reach our Target number

WWE officially set the target number yet necessity write 699 thousand dollars so then we charge your cards and we go into full production and when they will ship in June or July of next year for those of you that were part of that Sears althing here's how the Sears all work the searzall was Nastasia and Piper right back in paperwork with us and I in the basement of the booker and Dax lab we paid we literally made the prototypes for the searzall with just a little torch attachment that we sell out of cocktail shakers I went to the Bowery restaurant districts are in New York City I bought the smallest 3 piece cocktail shaker that I could find I took a plasma cutter cut it into the searzall shape that's literally how the searzall shape was developed was built around the smallest

available a three-piece cocktail shaker then we shipped we we did be a Kickstarter Piper and I in the basement made I think 20 right made like 20 cocktail shaker Sears Al's in the basement you know on Elder Street here mail them out that she has and we did the video with those Proto that's how we found a manufacturer or any of that stuff which is one of the reasons why it took a long time and I've never made something produce something making a single prototype is blindingly easy compared actually getting something manufactured is very there more difficulties than you would probably think right nastassia Merced fair this is not what's happening with the centrifuse with the centrifuge we not only have the manufacturer we have the subcontractors we've already gone through like five rounds of protos and we are actually in the place where we're going to make the tooling so I feel a lot

more confident with with my dates and numbers than I did when we launched the Sears all science fair yes it runs great it's tiny it's very quiet it's like a little food processor

mainstream we impressive to see and operate so listen to this is going to work either your version yeah yeah it's supposed to be your lips to God's ears version part of the family show ethos that we try to maintain here anyway so that's the that's the extent of the pitch but I will just say this that if you do not if it if it is not something that you guys are interested in then we will know and we won't build it and to be honest and I will fold up the equipment company I'll just go do a separate bar and just the right book

oh yeah sorry I'm going to blow not have a family I can't be the weather man if you didn't tune in to the show retard with the letter man was a guy in the 1800 who never spoke to anyone and just wore clothing that he made himself out of discarded boot leather and like a tin pan that he carried around with him and walked a continuous circuit of three hundred and forty or fifty miles once every 34 days 10 miles a day and never slept inside you know a day in his adult life and just did that until he literally dropped dead and was found in one of his caves Dead from the mouth cancer that he had the past year of the last year-and-a-half in his life the weather man if you look him up on the internet it is leather man parens Vagabond Vagabond now sounds like Begley romantic right cuz we use we use bum when we mean Vagabond but like back in the day that go by myself it was bad very bad you don't want to be a vagabond

anyway so let's go to a commercial and come back with actual cooking issues questions

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the only did one that we just never take the Midway break for the first time thanks for making me look like the bad guy again for like throwing her under the bus

one of my all-time favorite things about my wife is that she is like straight-up honest no sugarcoating like tells it as she sees it honestly my one of my favorite things I don't like and feel like when something is not like the way that she won't like she thinks it's bad she's going to say so which is why she was such a fantastic editor for my book and my people think I'm like saying this to be on the same side when you just come from an editing session with someone who's actually a good editor it is painful and it is there is friction involved in the editing process because this is but only to make it better but it just see how so anyway so I should not I should not have tried it I should not have accidentally throwing her under the bus

Musashi on the other hand he's like I don't care I don't care what it looks like without their perfection is not Perfection it's like anyway whatever whatever I get to some questions before I get to get to question first this one is in the answer from Del posto beforehand man are just sounds good sounds not pleasant like it's like right yeah right what would you rather have would you rather have some delicious salumi or Indonesia

would you rather have a bone marrow or indhuja would you rather have supersatta or as we call it

would you rather have spec or indhuja prosciutto and do just sounds like what it is though you know very red very stain your clothes very fat heavy pasty cured meat product yes yes answer is underneath there by 10

hi Dave the hammer and Heritage Radio peeps I decided to try the nduja recipe for Mark liners excellent Del posto cookbook and intend to offer it to my guests pre-thanksgiving dinner by the way in East Asia and my editor Maria Guarnaschelli hate pre meat and cheese at at a large meal Paul what are your thoughts on pre meat and cheese the real feel you off so classic restaurant the cheese course comes of course at the end yes my feeling is at home home is less formal than that a formal restaurant that's why it's home and not a formal restaurant that having cheese because it's more like cheese the cold antipasto kind of idea but it's with them have to be Italian Wright City of cheese is meat red wine while you're waiting for the thing to come out and then at the end of the meal that's when you bring out the port and Stilton Sebring out cheese again at the end but I think you can book into meal with cheese is not problematic

but he doesn't believe me

Thanksgiving in my family we always assume play when people assume we were going to be sorry for your incorrect but the point is is that the like when you have the lights citizenm Maria Maria happy

I like Ohio for another book okay I had my butcher grind the shoulder for the I go back to the question folks I had my shoulder on Saturday and I prepared it within a few hours to grind with some of course I use plastic wrap to form it into a log now if it if you thought nduja was a bad word and do to log sounds like even worse I like it though but I can't have a lot so fatty how much can you eat what about you fall like one has a lot of bread I don't like when they used to serve you like a boatload of water with no starch like they really fatty like a Lardo or like I just want some starch to cut the fat you don't even use plastic plastic wrap logs like my man is my man knows nor in is the plastic wrap log King I learned from him and I got pretty good but no snoring can take any of the men can take like a tractor trailer

play my informant into a perfect cylinder using only Purity brand plastic wrap is a plastic Rap Genius is sufficient but since I've never had to rely solely on Prague powder number to the floor I was hoping for some assurance that this sausage will be safe to eat by the holiday thanks a bunch of keep up the good work Nick from Cleveland now because it is a Thanksgiving question nastassia sent into Del posto to get an answer for you and then Mark and talk about it next week when it comes on the radio as well but it will be too late because your family will already have been poisoned by that just kidding but the couple, tell me straight off the bat Prague powder or instacure number to is a curing salt for those of you that don't do any curing it's a mixture of salt


pattern number two is a mixture of sodium nitrate and sodium nitrate trite and trait now if you don't know if this is all you need to know nitrite i t is the fast-acting version of nitrate so what do you think that's what caused the Cure color in Meats it's what it has a specific your taste it also specifically those nitrites nitrates specifically in inhibit botulism from growing so and sausages which by the way botulism I think comes from the Latin for like sausage classic because you're taking meat that's been exposed and folding it into an oxygen poor environment and that's why you can get botulism from it if it's not either cooked if you're properly so the the night rights help to prevent or prevent pause. Botulism from growing now nitrates are really just a long-acting version of nitrites so since this is a 3-day cure I don't see any reason why

would include nitrate in it at all I don't understand why they're using Prague powder number 2 and not instead of Prague powder number one typically you only use number 2 on long hair products and by that I mean things like hands where you need because it happened just as the stuff Stokes into your meat overtime nitrate is converted to nitrite and then converted on further to form the products that actually cure to me so if you don't require that kind of time lapse or time release rather action on the night raids you don't want to use them so I don't know why he's using number to powder we can ask him next week I would use number one that said there's also a couple of things going on here nitrites will immediately to prevent botulism from growing and since you took meat and was exposed to oxygen botulism will not be growing in the meat from the get-go so you will be safe on a botulism count this is just my opinion. I'm going to read the answer from Del posto the only issue you have is that

bacteria in the meat prisons E coli or if you're one of those people that believe trichinosis is still a problem in the US pork source which it isn't really glad if you believe that are for using wild-caught meat and it hadn't been previously frozen for the prescribed number of days to kill trichinella that's also a possibility but if there is a bacteria in it for instance E coli is one of the bacteria of interest in a mammal meat it will take a certain amount of time for that e-coli to be destroyed by the action of salt dehydration and the acidification that happens as meat is curing because bacteria grow in the meat lactic acid bacteria grow in the meat drop Phi increase the acidity and it's the combination of loss of water increase in salt and increasing acidity decrease in PH that really prevent killed bacteria that are there that are present already bad bacteria and prevent new ones from grow

nduja is such a high fat product that I don't know what the water activity is it from the get-go because it's such a height at 5 to begin with it might start with an extremely low water activity I don't know do you know Paul had no idea that makes sense though so and then I wasn't to look up like how long it takes for things like e-coli to die in a certain environment but these are encouraged but here's the answer the answer from Del posto to minimize and prevent them but honest and meet takes place in large Meat Processing plants were tens of thousands of pounds of meat are being ground together at a time there is much less risk for consuming ground meat if it is a whole loin start that you purchased from a reputable Butcher and grind yourself

there are clean and sterilized everyone says clean and sterilize what do you think of right away Willy Wonka the ceiling had to be washed and sterilized so you get nothing it's been a minute I forget. Thank God I never got turned onto the new one anyway you was awesome right when Gene Wilder

. it's already there fast enough that's the question more so than the loss of water that is results and drying and is similar to eating a season steak tartare hope this answers your question Happy Thanksgiving Matt going to give me left before we need to go and I just want to bring up a question now we weren't this is not a political show right and we weren't here last week which was the week after the election I'm not going to talk politics but I'll say pretty much no matter what side of you know you were voting for in the election here it seems like the country pretty much gave a kind of coup gives a crap about

kind of sexual assault that's kind of what happened it's one of the things that happened it's like we were like all of these allegations flying around and it's kind of like you know the country was like that it's not important that's the impression I got an impression of a lot of people. Which I think is horrifying and this is regardless of what side you're voting for and in the in the wake of that there was a website this is this is going out not to the center of the people who listen who aren't Pros with people who are in the industry a website popped up very soon after election called the reality of sexual assault in the cocktail and when I read it it was a it was a Blog wear a number of women that come forward and explained what it was like to be sexually assaulted by a particular person in the cocktail Community not going to bring up any anyone's name a particular person in the cocktail community and when I was reading it I was terrified by it but also I got the distinct impression that this is

actually a much bigger problem than I had realized it like kind of like not just kind of gross unnecessary I think non-inclusive brightness about the food industry in general and I think like you know I think everyone thinks that that bronius is kind of harmless but it isn't really because it is kind of is exclusionary like you don't talk like you talk to your Bros when you're around people you know it's not normal environment when you wanted to kind of be nice or if you meant to me so I think you don't you don't even still like taking it into a work environment such that like a huge section of the people who are working with you feel natural excluded is not I think a harmless a harmless thing correct but they are at a bare minimum you would think that with someone could go to work and not be like straight-up sexual assault

horrified and I think one of the problems in the industry and when we will reopen I know that I'm going to change how are you know our train our training is to be specific I think we all need to be when we had the training at Momofuku for harassment training because the way they do it is so goofy and overly corporate ride so they sit around and we are training things is this is this harassment is this not harassment and it's all kind of goofy thanks here's the truth the truth is that I wouldn't want to work in an environment where I can't I use salty language in in the real life nastassia uses salty language in the real life books and bartenders

NB rhonchi and salty and and and you know use bad language and say crazy things and I think that's all okay it's everything has to come from a position of respect right and a lot of times it doesn't there's a difference between saying that someone has to be politically correct and saying know what you really want to do is respect your co-workers like that's the issue and I think the real thing when it comes to assault real assault and sorry to go on about this but I think it's important not talk about enough is that honestly we know what what it is like having goofy training where you like other oh wow that was a salt know it's like what we need to train on is letting everybody know that it is completely unacceptable that like the fact that you're a cook and your it's late and you've been out drinking with your co-workers or your bartender and you can drink though he was drunk he wasn't drunk he's doing something Criminal

he is he's doing something evil and wrong if you are someone who tries to use as an excuse. Now if you see someone doing it don't make excuses for them I think part of the issue here is that there's a whole group of women out there who think that they need to remain silent because everyone else thinks it's okay I think the main thing that we need to do everyone needs to come out and say this kind of crap is unacceptable this kind of crap will not be accepted cannot be accepted and cannot be tolerated so hopefully this is something we can talk about more you think we should talk about respecting co-workers yes respecting co-workers and you know I don't like let everybody know not to you know that they shouldn't be silent that it's not okay that it's let me know if you want to make it up to the

anyone who's had something happen to them you know it's up to them what they want to do right but for the rest of us

don't allow this stuff to take place don't make excuses for anyone cooking

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