Cooking Issues Transcript

Episode 268: The Miracle of Moisture Management

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Roberto's dude what's the neighborhood

we are Bushwick

well as you can tell joined by a never Pepe grand vizier of the Museum of food and drink God. David Lewis how you doing what I'm doing good Lopez next to me 718-497-2128 that's 718-497-2128 so yesterday was the first day in the closing week festivities of Booker and Dax the bar and took the chairs out at the bar with 3D


it turns out that I don't know how to operate the POS system like all these drinks just like I think we had a good time last night we had. He came back to the ER manager Deacon Otis came back as a guest bartender we had an Robinson came back Jesse Vita came back Austin Hanley came back and told me an interesting story about you enjoy this nastassia about

Damon Bowl T forget my David wonderedge and Leo robitschek and Donley coming to the bar so look out for that Austin says so I was doing a damn and show at Roberto's what's a Turkish other co-host the show and you mentioned a multi-dimensional identical twin this and there are too many freaking food and drink identical twins in the New York City area just too many of them it's crazy right

identical twins it doesn't have one of the twins working in the food food business it's only to do a study on this medicine and architecture so-dimm oldies twin comes in and he's like that with my twin have a good story right good times if it did the jerks that live above Booker and Dax like having live there as long as the bar is existed start complaining at like 11:00 and smashing things into the Floor 2

honesty be quiet now I don't know about you but you don't turn blow the whistle down here and I mean if you're playing blow the whistle or any one of those other songs and you're mixing drinks in your bar is 3 much is not turn the music down two correct responses

you know what I mean idiot who does that like that's what I hate about New Yorkers like none of your really like you

you are not entitled to change the people who already exists around you mean you move into a place to place is bad because there is it's not like it's not like all of a sudden they look I've done this a bunch of times I I'll move into a place and the person who lived in my apartment before me is was like an 85 year old woman who lived alone never had any visitors because never came to visit her anymore she made zero noise her entire life like you know I don't know I didn't watch TV no cable nothing no noise nothing she dies we move in with like the kids and me and you know that dinner parties the family dinner and all the stuff and everyone gets mad

to your kind of super quiet privacy nice like that's why it's New York. See what you think about this

there's bound of rationality but like living directly above a bar that you moved into yeah

living in the city trade-offs people shouldn't live in the city like apparently these frat weasels who moved into this like I think there's like 30 of them living in this apartment above going all that again scrapping place above us and then whatever whatever Peter you're on here to push the Museum of food and drink cooking issues with nurses down a 5000 each 8 p.m. tomorrow and we need to cross the finish line of $80,000 by tomorrow I'm going to have I mean just to recap are going to have the fortune cookie machine or going to have to taste things

demonstrating some different techniques in Chinese American Cuisine will have some awesome menus giant wall takeout boxes so yeah it's going to be awesome show and so get your tickets on the child. Moffatt. Org I'm going to chain Peter something you can just pillory him like that's going to be one of the things we will set up a dunk tank with Peter in it oh my God Peter you should totally do that like a Peter Kim dunk tank I don't know if it's like part of the family show the name this Latin name for brain or the beans beans you familiar with that you're going to enjoy it Facey oldest vulgaris

let me get to some get to some questions if I was smart enough to pull them up okay

hope this is wish I was well known that old beans take longer to cook than young beans why is that well I thought I knew the answer to this question and it turns out that I don't know the answer to this question I know you think it's just kind of moisture thing but

that doesn't really explain that doesn't really I don't think explain what what's going on then I did a initial search on the internet and like every manufacturer and like counsel that tries to sell dry beans will tell you if you store the beans too long they say in quotes they will never soften baking soda and soften them but then I realized I didn't understand it's not simply that it's drying out something else is happening so I have to the short answer is I have to go I have to go look it up and I'll have to go do some sort of you know a scientific search on the order of

driving storage chicken storage changes like it's always like people who have the money for these sorts of studies are always kind of big industrial concerns and so you always add things like storage shelf life dried beans you try to hit as you try to phrase your searches this is it by the way anyone who actually wants to find their own info right I found out from Ariel Johnson who is here a couple weeks ago that there is a website and I'm sure you know all of you guys all you cool kids out there I already know about it but it's no like how illegal it is but I'm going to give you this website in case you don't already have it it's just I like science SC Dash Hub Hub. CC okay that's s c i h u b. CC and this website allows you to download

any almost any scientific paper that is behind a normal like University firewall now it's easy to use as a universal thing because you need a record call the DOI now what a deal I actually know what it stands for but it's an identifier that uniquely identifies a particular article okay so how do you get that so many many many of the either the university search engines or even the actual database owners like Wylie or elsevier are these guys will allow you to search and get the abstracts and a lot of times you can get this identifier in the abstract cut and paste it into the side Hub page and boom the paper pops up now the legality haven't looked it up I don't know what do you think

Dia weather to be going nuts okay to use it

you're the lawyer I think you get one one free pass that's my official legal opinion on using this one thing look it up it's a fantastic way to go get it so when you were searching for things in general is to think about think about your problem and try to cast it in the most industrial life possible so any sort of thing that you think that Campbell soup or anything that you think I care about because these are the people that that have money to pay for these kinds of studies and that's in general how I find so I'm extremely tough for me because they are closing stuff but I'm going to try to look up more on that because it leads me to another thing when I realized that I had no idea what was going on with the dry beans

let me to thinking about drift and so everything a lot about it recently so you get drift in your your whole life and what would that mean so you have like you come up with a recipe you come up with it with a technique you implemented on autopilot and you running a restaurant or when you're running a bar you know you have to be to have to set things in place to prevent your products your techniques your recipes from drifting too far away from you know from where you started often you sometimes drift is good sometimes you start with something and the Drift actually makes it better Mozart

that's not the case and even if it did make it better you want to know why and then codify that so I think they know a lot of what I'm thinking about is that that kind of a couple weeks ago we talked about the Eric repair store in East Asia where you know he has a very specific thing that will never drift Kraft swiss cheese and so they use that crap swiss cheese good that pallet trip that's about to change right and so kind of locking into one idea to increase consistency but the same is true in same drift happen in your own mind so nice to me especially or anyone that works on a problem for a small amount of time and then compartmentalizes that and then put it away and then you tend to think you know the spell the name when you heard me say the same dang explanations like a billion times and demo demo demo the problem is is that most of the time like your actual

I'm done enough actual work at that beginning section to actually get the real answer and you only marginally understand what you're talkin about four years later right all you have left in your head are the results and you don't remember any of the caveats to the research that had you come up with those results back over the years if you don't revisit it and look back into it again turns out you know almost nothing at this point and so you need to do it is that people ask me questions that make me re-examine and Merrill Magee is awesome at this stuff constantly re-examining things that you hold dear or hold as just kind of true and re-examine them down to a base level to try that we understand what you're doing and it cuz all almost almost always you know you were wrong about something you're wrong about

some of your privacy is our friend like that so that the bean thing got me thinking on that because it was something that you know I thought about it a long time ago they dry out as they get older they get harder to clearly there's more going on and I need to go freaking research that thing and in fact almost all the questions this week or of that variety things that I thought I knew something about and then I looked into it only marginally feeling that I could just come back with a quick Snappy doodle answer and and it turns out it's much more complicated problem eventually what state you live in and this is Alyssa you live in New Orleans which is you know to even in a sealed environment where you're not where you're not losing a lot of moisture right I think the beams they change over time there's a whole thing going on

show increased moisture absorption if it's just moisture this could be overcome relatively quick or quickly with a longer cooking time or perhaps let's say you know you're a believer in this current know so I choke to increase artery temper back up but there's no indication on the drive be if that was the case to drive in Council people would say if you had some old beans put a paper towel in with the old beans for like a couple of weeks and then they'll be good as new again is downloading the new iOS on your phone because of no longer freaking works I'm trying to reopen the question we have to be careful of is at the bean Council has a vested interest in you throwing away your old jeans and buy new ones in reality though what they should do is tell you how to fix your old beans because if you fix your old beans and have success you like you know what I actually enjoy cooking dry beans I will purchase more dried beans and I mean

you're like they told me I should throw it away I'm going to get this package of beans never going to cook it then it's going to get too hard I'm not going to know whether or not it still good I'm not going to sit around and try to cookies dried beans and then they don't show up and then what they know and then they never buy dried beans again that's my feeling my feeling is get people to throw away and buy fresh bean sometimes it's not in your best interests and we'll get to that in a minute about the new iOS you download it and please don't like on Sunday in my phone has been pestering me for a week so update why do you update your going to sleep now I could tell can I update now and your WhatsApp find find Chase Chase

I thought that when Steve Jobs died that I be free of this sort of like tyranny of other bed and forced to changes to the way that I use my device something is going to update 30 second jobs came back and cause me to not get pictures of my friend's wedding because I gotten used to the fact that I could go shipping and I take my phone and it turns into a camera instantly I went that did that and then like sprays a bunch of garbage on the top my screen as I press a button to continue and then I press the button but I can you take a picture of the of the Bride that I wanted freaking 10 seconds ago and not have it look like I'm texting during the middle of a wedding ceremony by typing on my phone like a lunatic she was like I don't know what I mean

wedding 2 so you don't want it's not my weight is 8 billion people and no one's like you know who's that idiot texting and then they draw beat on me like the snipers draw beat on me like this I mean it's like an Qui Qui does the star chadi gelatinization I assume you mean it was Asian and stale bread cause it to have a to texture and is this similar to moisture lost from cornbread exposed to the air form which can also lead to such texture many things I know stealing is not moisture loss and again

read stealing is a very I'm going to do the Trump sniff

from now on

stealing of bread is not primarily a yes but yes is not that mean I'm sorry but that debate was impossible to watch if you were on either side of the fence that debate was like so cringe-worthy right the whole time was like

right debate on the merits of things that matter I think but the thing is I hate this in-between saying it's like watching like it's just uncomfortable you know what I mean you know some of the moments are funny but it's an uncomfortable funny that makes me want to put my head in a paper bag you know what I mean it's like we just need to have like a Jello match between these kind of things that people in other countries have .2 in say like we have I mean I mean in French

anyway so bread stealing is not primarily a moisture loss but I remember

my wife is very anxious for me to finish and stassi is very anxious for me to finish the second book that was supposed to be working on so I was like how about this the portents of moisture management are you an idiot you know just tell my wife I was like look at it and telling you guys on the air like such a huge percentage of cooking problems in the world are moisture management problems why did you know why is the crust of the meat why is the skin bad because you don't know how to handle moisture management like why is it why is what's wrong with the bread you have no understanding of moisture management what's wrong

with my pizza oyster management that look on her face if I tell her if I told I told my editor check this out for a book The Miracle of moisture management something and it's going to be good no you haven't removed enough moisture from the crust area to 8 take it you get it right like what's wrong with that my fried foods when you haven't managed like you haven't managed the balance between moist and not invoicing with potato chips french fries I almost anything that isn't a braised any raises have moisture management problems cooking cooking beans cooking starches like why bread is stale in the first place where they'll go stale quickly is moisture Management in the dough and then how its Tail's itself is also a matter of moisture management that goes out so the miracle

management it turns out that no one thinks that that will sell that sells even less than cocktail books which you know don't sell that well but history of reading books will be liquid intelligence and then moisturize yourself and borders used to exist and they had them but it was a giant book about airplanes about like why my face is so itchy ears ringing after a work meetings I am the worst I am the most inflexible weasel

and in a meeting like the thing is is that we have those meetings at the Museum of food and drink where we're talkin about the exhibition and cerdo table driver sitting on this table and we're trying to figure out how to do the best exhibition given the parameters that we have to work with and when Peter comes to tell me something that he knows I'm going to disagree with right I can tell because here's what he hears what Peter does he walks up 6 down and goes

DeFelice like half of his size stairs down at his like 50,000 year old MacBook with half the keys missing and it's like yeah I can just see it I can just see the shoulders go down a little bit I don't like Peter man I'm not so bad and then you say something and in fact I am in fact I am I need it's like I'm just not

Silver Cloud management about the miracle moisture management people if you open something with the word country do not spell it with a K especially if there's a kitchen you're two-thirds of the way they're no good anyway you shouldn't do that, we'll talk about that after the after we do the caller caller on the air

this is Jeffrey in Costa Mesa California how you doing about the sleepers is like California hates you to Nastassja Strong place in Rancho Cordova Rancho

are you inviting me and then catch the question is that where the beans are grown where is Costa Mesa or water my people turns out people are worth more than oranges we're not

in a drought it's just Pleasant here kind of disgusting nice

I'm going to be installing some foot pedal valves nice ones and their head on how to solve the problem are you mentioned before there's a trick and basically allowing the hand cartridge valves that still work out the faucet so they're they're trying to figure out how to have the foot pedal valve still work when the cartridge valves on the handle is in the closed position how to how to start a bypass that and I actually think the way that I did the first time was better I'll tell you both ways so the guy actually recommend is I physically separate out the a separate the foot pedals from the the hand cartridge and I have them mix in the gooseneck and so what you do there is you get like a bit in the base faucet right

which has either Gabby Waller deck mounted and then you actually you don't use the weird swivel fitting there you just literally put you get all chrome chrome chrome T fitting and then Chrome nipples you get to choose the size and then you screw them together it was it's easiest if you're doing wall mount that supposed to deck right because in a wall mount your sink that is on the Saints go back to the wall and then the tea can go back to the wall you have to buy another phone and you just work out the size of the Chromebook end up with triangular flange right so you have instead of two flanges go into the wall you have three to go back then on the inside once you mount it up you screw the screw the connector in and then you just go Direct on a regular brass fitting you go a tee into that third tea that goes into your gooseneck and then that goes down with check valves to your foot pedals and now your foot pedals operate complete

independently of your foot cartridge doesn't matter what's going on that work fantastically on my new one actually foot pedal still work fantastically on this one of my new one what I did was I bought a TNS unit that came with a sprayer farm right now what I did there is I the problem is most rare arms right what they do is they sense the pressure and so if you if you push the spray arm and let water through there like a flap valve comes down and shuts off the water to the to the regular faucet head and I don't know if that would work with this the one that I bought the way it works is is both the sink head and the sprayer arm can work at the same time and you have to push and rotate a valve to actually turn off the the gooseneck I hate this system I hate it because you're pushing and turning is such a hassle if it was one of those quarter-turn cartridges like that would be good so what I'm looking to do now

nice couple years later is rip off the gooseneck that I have and just screw another gooseneck on there and try to find an actual something that will shut the flow off to the gooseneck that's just a quarter of a turn and not support a push and twist like a childproof cap I freaking hate but the but the way that that one works is very easy on the hook up for the foot pedals because what you do and that one is deck mounted so what you do is you just put your deck Mount down and Zack TNS one is designed to have a feeding from the bottom that is the spray arm so where the spray arm goes in I think you might have an adapter I forget but you just screw the tea right there and feed feeding into that tea right is the mix from your foot pedals and also the spray-on so it seemed super easy it's super easy there because you have that Central connector going in but if you're going to use the spray arm which I love the spray arm you need to think of some better way to switch off the switch off the top of the of the the gooseneck

the problem with you could you see a way that the first option could work in a deck mounted situation it's possible I didn't research it because I knew I was moving I thought I had solved it with the deck Mount sink that I bought but the problem with Tina's brass is it I mean I love their stuff and I can't last a long time and you can get all the parts for it but it's not something in general you can just walk into a plumbing house and get that it's better now it's easier like on Amazon I think carries some Tina stuff in I think they're out of Florida is that they used to be a pain in the butt because ktom had the best prices and so I would call up t&s brass and I would say hey and I would spend like you know 45 minutes on the phone with them asking about exactly which adapter am I going to use my papa and then I couldn't get to order from them because they don't do that way and then I would call katom and feed katom put in an order for this and then they ship it out like a week later

I don't know I have to look at it and see whether there's some easy way there are easy ways you could they make just a flange to flange and then you can put the tea and the problem is getting into space nicely because you're going to go deck and you want to drop that t down it's going to have to go tea and then over so unless you want to look greatly whacked-out nutty right you're going to have to have a relatively deep deck because it's going to have to go out the back of your faucet and down so now instead of mounting just a regular guy don't know that you're probably like 2 inch flange or something like that you know you need like a you need like a 2 and 1/2 to 3 inch deck to mount it on like now you're going to need that deck plus however like whatever the closest you can space that t over which is going to be at least an inch so you're adding like at least an inch probably closer to an inch-and-a-half you know to the depth of your deck on the deck Mount situation for it and she willing to do that it's it's like super easy the one thing I do

I know is I don't know and once you do that by the way it's super easy to install the sprayer arm on it because now once you have a third thing going down below the deck that happens like after the cartridge mixing then you can you can t that into your foot pedals and into a sprayer arm and if you're doing that right the sprayer arm functions either with your hand mixers or with your foot pedals issue is is that most t&s brass shutoff like quarter turn shut off since what I used to have right what they do is his they're designed to exclusively run a sprayer arm in most of the situations aren't dishwashed pets and then a dishwasher pet you're always using a sprayer arm and you have to tell it hey I want to use the gooseneck so and that's the way I used to have it but if you're okay with the look of that then it's like very easy because you can just buy the day by a separate gooseneck to comes up

and it has it the quarter turn shut off for the gooseneck you leave that on all the time so the gooseneck is default on right deck Mount faucet without the gooseneck you buy the ad on gooseneck and then you have the tea that comes out and down and then you buy the flange there and hook it into your spray arm your foot pedals you should be good to go I actually got used to having kind of the weird industrial Chrome looking faucet thing and I actually loved it like it better than my sister but it's just a matter of mix and matching with all the TSM tienes brass though I think that's enough to help thank you very much thank you let let us know how it works at moisture loss is happening right it's actually the starch and it's been a thing again that's more complicated when I went back to look into it the researchers change people. Additional research since the last time I looked at it but engine

we're looking at is the starches are recrystallizing to an extent in the more sure is migrating from starch sometimes two proteins are into the into the Matrix between where they start used to be and Prince reheating the bread can cause those things you know cause I'm to reabsorb some moisture decrystallize and get good again what to do that usually turns to a garbage quickly afterwards it's more than just as more than just moisture lost in the refrigerator makes you a complete enemy equality because you're increasing the crystallization rate by lowering the temperature of the bread that's why when you're freezing bread you want to freeze bread right away because when you freeze bread it's the equivalent of the act of freezing it alone is least a day's worth of just sitting out on your counter and you want to throw out relatively rapid that you wanted to be in that evil fridge zone for a short. Of time possible so before we get kicked off of should handle that some Halloween

I should have done this when first we get to the folks in a chatroom on with this and maybe nastase had some idea cuz nastase is that the queen of the Halloween and Christmas Day and that's why I want you to talk about it this is from Matt some Halloween spooky I'm using fresh concord grapes but don't really have a way of juicing them to get in the seat out any thought on on that without the aid of a juicer or can I just blend it all and then clear it with some techniques or whatever look you can blame Concord Grace but it's going to hit that the seeds get better so like I remember that time we tried it and was like us all the seed particles in the thing was just nasty but without the Santa like I've literally just mashed it like like Lucille Ball making wine back in the I Love Lucy and I mean the hell out of it

SPL to the mash and then just keep mashing it for a couple of hours and eventually it will kind of liquify and then you press the stuff out in a save to get the juice out starts his you healed is not as high as what we got but that it's you know it's hard if you have kids or intern just received an grapes.

you jiggered it somehow yes but the issue with mashing it's it's hard you need a matching is difficult because people want to try to your Mash efficiency goes way down as soon as the depth you're mashing in goes deep and as soon as the area that the stuff you're mashing can move to goes wide so at if you have a deep pocket and you put a masher and to try to match something then all of the whole concord grape just move out of the way the Masher is he push it through the stuff down but no I don't know I mean it means like it's like Cat Stevens. Grinch

all the weird like topical references that nobody like you do you remember when you semity Sam was Bugs Bunny was supposed to get this guy Fearless freep to do the high diving act and and see you Sunday sounds like to see the hot but there's all sorts of weird topical references not cartoon. Cartoon was hilarious growing up but there's no like like songs the time like Open the Door Richard you know that song anyway because it's still funny as heck even though you don't understand understand the reference I get it that was like a current poem that people read your life

political show not a political show Dave think we're all on board with who we want right not a political show

MASH urgent, crowded train to be an attempt at a successful successful attempt you're not attempting to actually get someone to go out on a date with you that kind of move on to get some bitter sweet cheeks like just like fun but it's not I remove or what

will on somebody else I think so sure that's disgusting various sources miss. His favorite favorite place to look up her data various sources again back to Looney Tunes remember when the King was trying to get a place and again to cook Bugs Bunny and he says everyday

hot tub in the Illinois and like to hang on a carrot yeah yeah yeah what's that song pop pop bottles the other one I can't actually sing the lyrics to that any I can't find I can't think of any set of lyrics of that it's appropriate for me to sing so we went from Concord grapes to to Looney Tunes to Pacho spooky Halloween cocktails that is the same question when I post the last word looks sort of like a witches brew

Furniture the best way to really make it pop I can carbonated but I really want it popping up in your face is being spooky great maple syrup lemon juice bourbon angostura egg white Shakin real frothy and then two drops of patient classic anyway so if you're going to do a adults freaking love their pizza with green hair wet don't dump let the people here will more ports on that next week when we ask for peace with greens and be like we don't do that we don't do that

it is like prosciutto on top it's like I would love to make sure you don't put make sure you don't put any reason activated charcoal black like a super powder that people use for health reasons which I think is crazy but whatever but black drinks are creepy and if you use enough of it all your cut all your customers are guests teeth will become black which is also really creepy for them garnish with what it would melt man you can put some on top but she told me about an apple head dolls

turn it up only that intact then carve up like carve a face in it right so we can let me just a lil bit if you want I don't know why it's going to go run anyway that they say to do that carve a face in it and then soak it in salt for a salt water for like a day or so and that's too I think I don't know why everyone does that some of that probably just osmotic to pull the water out of the apple and also probably to help keep it from spurlin as it as it dries down and then dry that sucker down like sticking on a chopstick or whatever and or wire and dry it and hang it or what are sticking up and dry it for a week if you have a high dehydrator you can do it sticker if you buy the Vincent Price for Vincent Price applehead maker literally is like a case that goes around a 60 watt

probably is cause more house fires in any other Vincent Price Brandon toy in history of course and Nastassja should post on her Instagram account wine zombie instructions and zombie not knowing you would come across as I'm being asked and then you put it you build like a wire Armature you put zombie costume over with pans and then you just put it on like a circulator or whatever pump then you add all of your cocktail to that bucket and then the two out of the circulator pump whatever goes into the mouth of the

eye of the zombie mask that I guess you put it over a mannequin head right styrofoam head and then dumps into the bowl so it's just a zombie puking and I think for this a red cocktail is appropriate but puking zombie blood cocktail punch into and you can have like a hunk of dry ice in the Punchbowl to keep it cold as it's irking and so he's puking into a frothy like steamy Zombie Thing and the son later you're puking into a Nastassja believe it or not even though even though she is sometimes a just get her done enemy of quality is good enough kind of a person that's what this was but you did a a standing Santa but if you forgot your first wine zombie out the gate I recommend doing a a bust only zombie that you can put on a table top of the table top Mountain zombie but if you

I know. I'll kick plans for wine zombies because it's with a very small amount of repurposing where is Santa's puking up mall. And I was a hot one that's very good like a hot like further actually recorded her friend Phil Bravo dumol wine you know what I mean or like to work with Dave Archie Bunker song

pieces and sticking and again much more complicated than I thought I ever remember a bunch of times when you when you skin pumpkins you get that weird Uzi latex at like cause of that disgusting skin to form on on top of your priority disgusting skin you want to mean and so it turns out that there are these crazy exudates in cucurbit sand and zucchini cucumber pumpkin all to kibitz and some have more than others he's weird exudates and so I'm going to look into that because I think that's an interesting subject and I also have to get next week to dishes and when it's okay when it's a rip and we have a question on some high-tech equipment from someone in Montreal going to get to next week what you want Peter

two tickets to see child in making a Chinese American Cuisine

it's going to be in so much trouble thanks cooking issues

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